During this game Ultimate used 1 base play, and was unable to get up his ramp to see anything.
I started the game opening up a standard 12h with scouting at 11, and went to the bottom right base first, and immediately went to cross. His marines intercepted my drone, and tried to get up the ramp anyways, but lost the drone. I made my gas directly after starting my 6 lings, and kept 5 lings at the front, while 1 ling chased the SCV out of my base and proceeded to continue. I started my lair anyways and got speed and a den. With my lings out in front and peaking up the ramp, I went ahead and placed 3 sunkens in anticipation for his timing push and when his push didn"t come, sent my lings to scout for a dropship. From there I found his dropship, but he got all the way to the back of my mineral line in an impossible spot to defend with just lings. I had started my lurker, and made a few hydras, but he still picked off my pool. Afterwards it was just damage control and attempts to stay in the game.
My questions for this style of play are, 1:should you delay your lair a bit longer and get den earlier? 2:Is there some kind of timing that you can reference in terms of knowing when you should place sunkens down? 3:I feel it was right to get the Den, but when should you get 2nd gas, or even cut on drones? 4:Is putting sunkens in your mineral line a good response, or should you just find a way to defend with speedlings? 5:Is getting a spire better than getting lurker even in extra high latency?
It's not common to get this type of play, but its tricky to read, let alone respond to and would like some input and discussion on how it would be possible to play against this gay different style.
when u scout him doing any 1 base style build and u make 4-6 lings, u cant take gas earlier than 16 supply or else u wont have enough minerals to keep using larva + lair + make a sunken vs possible vulture (u didnt have that sunken). when u added those 3 sunkens, u had no money to use larvas and because of that u are far behin in eco by default. i always play 3 hatch muta vs 1 base terran if im allowed to. 1. u can play 3 hatch and lair first vs 99% of terran builds (u need 3 hatch hydra vs 8 rax vulture rush, because wraith tech would be too fast otherwise) 2. on fs if u place sunkens when he moves out of his natural, they will finish in time, u just have to notice it fast^^. preferably u delay his attack a little by sending lings between army and his base and poke his army from behind, tempting him to turn around or getting 1-2 marines which stop and start shooting ur lings because he just amoved and doesnt pay attention. actually i even forgot the timing of the sunken vs the first vulture.... i cant name it but i think i can still play it xD 3. + 4. if i play vs 1 base terran and dont know whats comings, i still check his marine count and decide upon that, if its some 2 rax play or some 1 rax tech stuff. vs 2 rax i just go 3 hatch muta, vs 1 rax tech i go 3 hatch lair, hydra den, ling speed and make 2-3 hydras, but i still place spire when lair finishes and go for mutas with about 1 group of speedlings before that (i start with 4-6 lings and make sunken vs possible first vulture and the 2-3 hydras vs possible wraith, if i see no aggression + no vulture + no wraith, i check near his base for a dropship + make more lings, so i can delay his drop until scourge/mutas are out) 5. u should be able to play both variations, just use the one u like more. vs 1 base u dont have to muta micro that hard, because the mobility of the mutas by itself is often enough to use muta/ling attack vs his reinforcements (1 base has not that much reinforcements, so its easier to pick them of)........ ok ok, if he goes for a 2 rax tank push u still have to muta micro...... i dont like extra high lat.....
and sry, but i cant name the timing of the 2nd gas, i forgot it xD.....
edit: ah.... u can make a sunken in the mineral line, but i dont like it..... my 3 hatch muta is enough, spire/scourge are fast enough vs 1 base drop (if u delay with 1 group of lings)
Good benchmark timing when to send ling to scout Terran ramp is 4 minutes. That's around 18 supply in the replay. You should see 6 or around 6 marines if Terran has been constantly producing Marines out of his one barracks. This is a good indication of quick bio drops.
One ling at his choke and another near to see if he's expoing always helps or to see if he moves out because Terran sometimes hides their marine count and only puts a few marines on the ramp. I just go Hydras vs. Terran if I know they're going for factory timing or I don't know what they're doing (2 rax academy or fac). Speed Hydras should be enough when the marine drops come. You can lose 5+ hydras, as long as you defend it your economy will be so much better. Terran really has to do a large amount of damage to be ahead. It's a very inefficient and costly style to play.
4:30 is when a wraith or two wraiths in the case of 2 starports will arrive to your base. After this time has passed you can spread overlords out to scout for drops, especially if one wraith comes. It could be dropship or maybe quick expand.
Thank you guys very much for the advice. Alot of well rounded analysis and I'll try to find a more comfortable way to get 2nd gas. Thank you for the Jaedong VOD, but the issues with following it is that he opted for 2h muta against 1 base play which is usually very comfortable to play, but in my game it was 3h muta. As well its a 2 player map but still I watched it anyways cause its jaedong.
There is a small bit of indifference between getting mutas, and getting hydras as well as getting hydra speed, which did cross my mind, but the big thing Baku pointed out was the timing of the sunkens, and how to time them out. I guess to expand off that, is when placing sunkens when he comes out only possible when he is cross position, or can it work in any position?
on fs it works on all positions, in close positions u might want to add them before he crosses the bridge outside of his nat. i cant name the "perfect" timing, u just have to test it 1-2 times. (with lings between his army and his base to poke his army)
btw if he fakes moving out but u already placed the creeps, u can make them sunkens later if he really moves out.... u just need to scout it so u dont look stupid^^
On July 08 2015 13:06 fearthequeen wrote: If you wanna optimize vs 1 base terran you can sacrifice overlord for scouting. The info you get is going to outweigh losing 1 overlord.
What would I be looking for while trying to sacrifice the overlord, and how would I know where to send ovie?
Mostly you're looking to see if you need hydras or not. If you suspect or scout 1 base play then immediately send ov to the side of their main adjacent to their third (like to 12 if they're @ 11) then into the main from there. Usually this is your 2nd overlord but sometimes its possible to get 1st ov in. They aren't going to have high marine count or spotting buildings to quickly see/kill your overlord at that point in the game so usually you will see all the neccesary buildings. And if it is high marine count then you know they doing at least 2 barracks.
Then you can add appropriate hydras + range vs 2 port or sunkens vs 2 or 3 rax academy, for example.