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Just out of curiosity... which strategies do you find hardest to play against, either now or in the past, in whatever match-up? What consistently gives you/gave you fits, and why?
For myself, I remember there was a period before the 1.08 patch where goons built faster, AND I wasn't hep to fast-expand build orders (maybe back then it was more like 'pretty quick expand')... so good old-fashioned low-tech Protoss macro was very hard for me to deal with.
I was always like, "How the eff does he have that many goons?". Killed me easily for quite some time 'til I got more consistent at scouting and punishing the quick expand, and 1.08 helped as well (too bad I didn't know about TL back then).
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Terran.
User was warned for this post
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Japan11285 Posts
When I decide to wing it and go 12 nexus then terran scouts and then you see marines and scvs streaming towards your natural. Argghh. I probably just need to practice but haven't played lately.
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Russian Federation145 Posts
On July 31 2015 12:25 c3rberUs wrote: When I decide to wing it and go 12 nexus then terran scouts and then you see marines and scvs streaming towards your natural. Argghh. I probably just need to practice but haven't played lately.
aka Bunker Rush
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United States1431 Posts
Usually when they talk smack like Mike Tyson before the game even starts. That's the best strategy of them all to make your opponent more angrier and stupider if they're vulnerable to that sort of thing. It's a bad pay off though, because in the end there is only loss.
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Smart Zerg players taking advantage of choke points with lurkers were the most difficult opponents ever, never felt nearly as lost. I can even pinpoint the start of the problems to the week after the APM LAN in Germany took place, for some reason nearly every German Zerg started to use lurkers differently back then. From then it spread and it seems every WGT Zerg would follow, with an enormous boost once Mondragon published his general ZvP guide lines. Dire times, really.
What I meant in detail were games on maps like Lost Temple and especially Nostalgia. Zerg wouldn't even try to do much other than threaten a backstab with Zerglings, until they first got Lurkers off two bases. Then they'd add about twelve to twenty Zerglings and four to six lurkers, contain Protoss in the Natural and take at least one base - true oldschool Sauron style. The second you had observers, there already were Scourge patrolling the area, which made it hard to break out of the narrow chokes. Without any LanLatency you really needed to maintain your cool to have a glimpse of hope left. Eventually you would break out, even against better Zerg users, only to find yourself in a spot in which Zerg had about five expansions and a ton of Hydralisks and Zerglings. The worst part was, that at one point you learned how to deal with such a contain earlier than usual, so you saw improvement. However, if you were to leave your base, you couldn't do that much, as the real assholes knew how to perform well timed backstabs and tie you to your new expansion you basically needed to survive. Or they simply started to do small scaled drops for the same effect.
TL;DR Obs vs Scourge without LanLat is horrible
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I tend to have a difficult time against Protosses who mind control one of my drones and then start building their own Zerg race because then they have a supply cap of 400, and I only have a supply cap of 200, and so their army is always twice the size of mine. Additionally, once they make lurkers, the game is over. They can just defend and make nine hundred hydralisks - true oldschool Sauron style.
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On July 31 2015 17:02 ninazerg wrote: I tend to have a difficult time against Protosses who mind control one of my drones and then start building their own Zerg race because then they have a supply cap of 400, and I only have a supply cap of 200, and so their army is always twice the size of mine. Additionally, once they make lurkers, the game is over. They can just defend and make nine hundred hydralisks - true oldschool Sauron style. I'm sorry I did that to you... I really abused MC those games.
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Players who can play a very solid macro game in which they don't really over-extend or take too many risks and have a strong late game to back it.
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
1 base toss play because i haven't been able to figure out the minimum defenses (either i overcommit to defense and lose to the macro or i undercommit and flat out die)
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Sair reaver is probably the most hair pulling strategy to play against, even if your dominating its just...horrible to experience.
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As a zerg I have nightmares containing rampant corsairs, and dark templars in my mineral lines. I also shudder at anything a terran can throw at me.
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In my years of playing, I never found out how to beat a DT expand build in PvP. Obviously if the player was worse than me I'd win but if we were evenly skilled and they did the build, I knew I'd be in trouble. I tried a million things against it but never learned how to truly play against that style, and every loss would always end up with me getting a disadvantage in upgrades and getting stormed to death.
Also, my Fighting Spirit PvZ was always garbage cause every Zerg started playing the turtle style where they take a nat as their third and main as their fourth. I never had the patience to deal with that
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Canada10904 Posts
Freaking 12 Nexus PvP. The one with a zealot rush follow-up, cannons, and then maybe dts or high templars or something. Such an irritating build.
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Players who decide to camp and download extreme amounts of porn so the match lags so much it's like watching a slide show.
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I would say the double gate DT build as Terran (DT drop kinda dropped out of fashion)
I know how to defend them, but I just don't know how to punish them properly. DT is just a build that can kill a Terran ASAP if the Terran is unprepared, and can still transition to a arbiter fast tech if a Terran defended the initial DTs.
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United States9655 Posts
2 fact all-in as a protoss. i think ive held it off once in my life lol. seriously i hate that shit so much.
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well timed terran death pushes
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ZvP versus an opponent FE followed by a well timed +1 speedlot push. Scary stuff.
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On August 05 2015 15:21 dRaW wrote: Players who decide to camp and download extreme amounts of porn so the match lags so much it's like watching a slide show. lol, and they always seem to be from Peru when I experience this >_<
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Deep six style builds when I'm playing PvT, doesn't matter how many upgraded goons and zealots I have they seem to get instantly raped by that M&M + tank move out
I also try and get DTs + HTs or reavers involved as well but they never seem enough.
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On August 11 2015 02:31 jello_biafra wrote:Deep six style builds when I'm playing PvT, doesn't matter how many upgraded goons and zealots I have they seem to get instantly raped by that M&M + tank move out I also try and get DTs + HTs or reavers involved as well but they never seem enough. Wow, surprising. I would've thought storm or reavers would be in time, but I'm not that familiar playing against Deep Six (or using it).
What exactly happens to you here?
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On August 11 2015 01:08 Atom[Bomb] wrote: ZvP versus an opponent FE followed by a well timed +1 speedlot push. Scary stuff. Should be easy to stop. You literally just go 3 hatch muta with a lurker follow up or the other way around, any savior era zvp game demonstrates how to crush that with pathetic ease.
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On August 12 2015 05:19 [[Starlight]] wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2015 02:31 jello_biafra wrote:Deep six style builds when I'm playing PvT, doesn't matter how many upgraded goons and zealots I have they seem to get instantly raped by that M&M + tank move out I also try and get DTs + HTs or reavers involved as well but they never seem enough. Wow, surprising. I would've thought storm or reavers would be in time, but I'm not that familiar playing against Deep Six (or using it). What exactly happens to you here? I think my problem is that I never scout it in time somehow, I only find out about it when they're moving out
And I never expect it to happen so I'm not properly prepared.
...if my game from TLC4 was broadcast that was a textbook example, the guy probably read this thread
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in the past, Blink allins during the blink allin era were hard to hold :D
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On August 16 2015 07:58 Hadronsbecrazy wrote: in the past, Blink allins during the blink allin era were hard to hold :D
Almost as big an issue as SC2 sucking, yes.
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4 gate/proxy gates in pvp. its the only build i hate with a passion. mainly because ive lost to it too many times
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On July 31 2015 17:02 ninazerg wrote: I tend to have a difficult time against Protosses who mind control one of my drones and then start building their own Zerg race because then they have a supply cap of 400, and I only have a supply cap of 200, and so their army is always twice the size of mine. Additionally, once they make lurkers, the game is over. They can just defend and make nine hundred hydralisks - true oldschool Sauron style. best troll to ever lurk the forums.
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for me the most harder as zerg is playing vs 8 rax ^^; a terran with a decent control would will always win me with the bunker rush or later doesnt matter if im doing 12h.
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I struggle in mid/late game ZvT after he has a few vessels out and my control group of muta have been irradiated to never never land. That's when he switches to dropship play and now I've got lings running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to intercept him before he can unload behind my mineral lines.
I guess I just need more scourge. The only way I've ever been able to defend this type of play is by having 2 sunkens in the mineral line with a lurker buried between them.
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2base arbiter in TvP. I just can't ever seem to perfect the correct way to punish it, and it's very easy to get over-confident and push when it isn't safe to. Or possibly 2hatch muta in TvZ; it's so humiliating to lose to only mutas, and I will either focus too much on the current muta threat and lose later if my opponent is expanding/teching a lot behind it, or transition too early and get overrun by just mutas. Both situations are so infuriating to me.
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Koreans are the most difficult strategy I have yet to come across in BW.
On August 16 2015 07:58 Hadronsbecrazy wrote: in the past, Blink allins during the blink allin era were hard to hold :D
lol
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vs. 10/15 gate goon range on medusa TvP
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* vult harass into a 5/6 fact push TvP * ZvP Turtle Zerg on FS or any similar map * Lurker contains outside natural * PvP - Proxy 2 gate and 1 base goon/reaver all-in builds
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Zerg hydralisk/lurker/scourge/mutalisk contain into ultra/ling/defiler/lurk/hydra 4/5/6 bases against me as protoss.
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On September 03 2015 21:26 iloveav wrote: Friendzone. Easily countered: Stop being so damn nice.
(if she's under 28 or so. after that, she really does want you to be nice).
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On September 03 2015 21:26 iloveav wrote: Friendzone.
Don't think about it as in what you can do for her to keep her interested or happy.
Instead, approach it as in what she can do for you.
That attitude changed my dating life forever, in a good way!
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Diagonal match up, 3 Stargates Carrier build.
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On September 04 2015 04:02 LaStScan wrote: Diagonal match up, 3 Stargates Carrier build. Devise a strategy to anticipate it.Some type of strong solid macro into Goliaths with Vessel Emp.+Mass tanks/vults.
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Japan11285 Posts
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zvt bunker rush and 5rax +1 zvp turtle toss
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On September 11 2015 22:49 sabas123 wrote: zvt bunker rush and 5rax +1 zvp turtle toss
Take a look at my guide VOD, then you will crush both of Terran's build.
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On September 12 2015 04:50 LaStScan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2015 22:49 sabas123 wrote: zvt bunker rush and 5rax +1 zvp turtle toss
Take a look at my guide VOD, then you will crush both of Terran's build. thank you so much, I didnt knew they existed.
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As terran : 2 base carriers, or carriers in general. Even when I scan it and start to make only goliaths tanks / turrets way before the Protoss show his carriers, I eventually die 90% of the time
Also any non standards zerg strats (pool gas opening, 2 hatch lurker, fast drop, ninja expos everywhere...). I never react properly.
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On October 06 2015 17:56 Glioburd wrote:As terran : 2 base carriers, or carriers in general. Even when I scan it and start to make only goliaths tanks / turrets way before the Protoss show his carriers, I eventually die 90% of the time Also any non standards zerg strats (pool gas opening, 2 hatch lurker, fast drop, ninja expos everywhere...). I never react properly.
Guess I should remember that for the next time we play! :D
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On October 07 2015 01:38 B-royal wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 17:56 Glioburd wrote:As terran : 2 base carriers, or carriers in general. Even when I scan it and start to make only goliaths tanks / turrets way before the Protoss show his carriers, I eventually die 90% of the time Also any non standards zerg strats (pool gas opening, 2 hatch lurker, fast drop, ninja expos everywhere...). I never react properly. Guess I should remember that for the next time we play! :D
The grim downside of this thread: exposing your greatest weaknesses.
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On September 04 2015 11:02 J-dawg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 04:02 LaStScan wrote: Diagonal match up, 3 Stargates Carrier build. Devise a strategy to anticipate it.Some type of strong solid macro into Goliaths with Vessel Emp.+Mass tanks/vults.
Excellent advice from mr J DAWG. Scan, have you given this proper consideration?
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2 gate expand as all races.
Though it is the ONLY particular strategy I have trouble against in the game.
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On October 07 2015 01:38 B-royal wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2015 17:56 Glioburd wrote:As terran : 2 base carriers, or carriers in general. Even when I scan it and start to make only goliaths tanks / turrets way before the Protoss show his carriers, I eventually die 90% of the time Also any non standards zerg strats (pool gas opening, 2 hatch lurker, fast drop, ninja expos everywhere...). I never react properly. Guess I should remember that for the next time we play! :D
+ Show Spoiler +
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the 1st push the terran makes in TvP with marines and tanks...I always screw up right there...
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when spawning pools costed 150, what a nightmare
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On December 16 2015 03:06 nanaoei wrote: when spawning pools costed 150, what a nightmare yah, that was kinda ridiculous.
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- ZvP: 1 gate into forge openings. I barely play against them, but when I do I get completely wrecked; I always open overpool. I guess I'm just really unfamiliar with what I should be doing and when. It starts with them blocking my natural expansion with their probe for a sufficient amount of time and then their zealots trading efficiently enough that I end up with a poverty economy and lose in the mid game.
- ZvP: 2 base goon all-in. This hits so fast that I often struggly by not managing to organize a proper army. I'm trying to go muta lings vs this now because I've noticed hydras suck balls against it.
- ZvT: 1 base terran tech, opening wraiths or just tanks. This completely messes up my timings and my feel for the game after stopping their initial aggression. They've got an expansion now and I often lose because they can quickly push with tanks/vessels before I have defilers out.
One thing I've learned in ZvT by now is that you basically ALWAYS have to get queen's nest as fast as you can, if you're playing ling lurker, because it's just impossible to deal with mid game armies reliably without dark swarm.
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No strategy is that hard too deal with unless you let it be!
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On December 22 2015 10:10 TheGreatOne wrote:No strategy is that hard to deal with unless you let it be! I bet you're a 'morning person' too.
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On December 24 2015 10:36 [[Starlight]] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 10:10 TheGreatOne wrote:No strategy is that hard to deal with unless you let it be! I bet you're a 'morning person' too.
When my dreams come true!
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