Assuming you keep air upgrades constant, and just pop a round or two- to suddenly descend upon the terran 3rd or 4th base, would this be a bad play? When you consider the investment of units needed to break a ramp that is defended by bunkers, siege tanks ext- and that the mech army is very slow to respond, is this investment worthwhile to cripple terran econ- and force them to build less tanks?
ZvT CC Sniping vs mech
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Ramiel
United States1220 Posts
Assuming you keep air upgrades constant, and just pop a round or two- to suddenly descend upon the terran 3rd or 4th base, would this be a bad play? When you consider the investment of units needed to break a ramp that is defended by bunkers, siege tanks ext- and that the mech army is very slow to respond, is this investment worthwhile to cripple terran econ- and force them to build less tanks? | ||
yubo56
656 Posts
If u mean later in the game than that I think you'd flat out die to a push | ||
fearthequeen
United States780 Posts
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
As for the idea, mutas alone are very cost inefficient late game ZvT. In a standard ZvT game, where T later switches to mech, going pure muta is a sure way to get hard countered by either cheap mass turret defence, vessels/valkyries or just goliaths. Going pure muta just for the CC snipes sounds even worse. The reason is that after the first attempt at doing this, the terran will adapt and will start repairing his CC while mutas are being cleared by turrets or vessels or valks or goliaths. Besides, it is not an easy task to perform. Considering that microing in ZvT at every stage of the game is consisting of various tasks that are certainly not easy, the performing part should be of very little concern. There are certain moments where T overextended with the ground army and mutas are viable solution for a while to fend off their attacks though. The only time I see this working is having 12-16 mutas (with max 1 carapace upgrades) flying around with a queen to snipe a completely undefended CC. If T went mech straight from the start, muta heavy, macro heavy, some ground army heavy style is viable. It is then we have the economy and the initiative to go upgrading mutas rather soon. It is this scenario where doing those kind of muta/queen CC snipes will be viable IMHO. | ||
Highgamer
1335 Posts
Unless it's a progamers' non-stop fighting lategame TvZ, and even in those games: there will always be certain downtimes in the game after big battles, most likely several of those in the course of a game, where both sides have to recover - and where both sides can consider doing something different. Don't tell me you never have kind-of-stalemate scenarios in your TvZs where both sides are at around 150 supply +- and you have around 1.5k/1.5k+ in the bank. What's that in a lategame TvZ? After battleing your opponent for 15-20 minutes you should know how they roll, and some Terrans will seem to over-react to stuff - like if one of their two mining bases is attacked. Many won't think of the overall strategic purpose of defending that base at all cost now, they will send everything there, or clamp up if they lose that base, or blindly attack, even though overall it doesn't look to bad for them despite losing the base. I think that if Z goes for this move at a well picked moment, and then has a mean swarm+ling/lurk/ultra defense in the back-pocket to buy time, this can work out pretty well against many Terrans. | ||
sickkungen
Sweden179 Posts
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LaStScan
Korea (South)1288 Posts
Luxury vs Frozen http://couplezz.net/sc/view.php?no=21496 But I prefer 2h muta opening with 3 gas muta lurk into guardian hydra lurk which I've been doing a lot. My zerg is max C rank(older seasons max B cuz standard level increased recently) video for my preference opening is here. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/138649431 1:43:00 | ||
radley
Poland575 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
And of course map plays a role,eg. FS you can build turrets everywhere, CB not really. | ||
Ramiel
United States1220 Posts
Im getting the sense this just isn't viable though :/ | ||
B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
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Ars0n_
28 Posts
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Trozz
Canada3439 Posts
They can help snag a CC. Try not to lose it. | ||
Prothoenor
3 Posts
But when a game is close, you need units, and you need to use them immediately. For a successful sudden and powerful tech switch, you need to save up somewhat, poll your new tech units, and catch your opponent off guard. But usually late game both players are struggling to hang on. If you have air to breathe, room to consider a tech switch, you probably have the upper hand already, and you aren't considering a tech switch. And if you are not, a tech switch may mean the difference between barely hanging on, and losing. Not too sure about going for going for the CCs. Cracklings & swarm should be more effective at preventing a CC from mining, though it can lift and survive. A terran struggling to hang on may decide to produce less and less goliaths, less and less turrets and less SV. And I am sure there are many games ZvT with mech where Z does do a successful sudden mass muta switch, though I agree they must be rare as right now no game jumps to mind. | ||
thedeadhaji
39467 Posts
On April 29 2017 08:12 LRM)TechnicS wrote: Another good option is to think of completely new ways to reach lategame ZvT. Now that would be an interesting idea I would like to hear about. Been seeing JD going very very high drone count / low units in the midgame lately as an "alternate path" to the lategame. There are 2 games vs Skyhigh on Camelot on his stream (3 days ago or so) that illustrate this. | ||
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