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Your average ZvZ opponent isn't going to adjust her/his opening to how often you do 4 pool or 12 hatch.
I think every Z should go overpool vs random people on 4 player maps. Unless you have a certain read on your opponent or you know you need to play safe because you are going to outclass your opponent either way.
Also, it is more likely that you want the opening that helps you improve the fastest. Not the opening that allows you to win the most.
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On May 26 2017 00:50 Ernaine wrote: Your average ZvZ opponent isn't going to adjust her/his opening to how often you do 4 pool or 12 hatch.
I think every Z should go overpool vs random people on 4 player maps. Unless you have a certain read on your opponent or you know you need to play safe because you are going to outclass your opponent either way.
Also, it is more likely that you want the opening that helps you improve the fastest. Not the opening that allows you to win the most.
No, you should go 12 pool against randoms.
12 pool does NOT lose to 4 pool, I've tested this several times
If you see 4 pool (lings coming out when your overlord gets to his expansion on FS) then you cancel your hatchery and just make one sunken inside your base. If he brings a drone to sunken you, you can make a sunken inside the range of that other sunken while being protected by your first one. You will STILL have 10 drones to 3, making 2 sunkens is worth.
If you don't see it right away, cancel the hatch and make two sunkens. You may need to cancel one if he focuses it. You need to protect your pool long enough to start lings/sunkens.
The only way to lose is to lose your pool and not have any sunkens started. Or to try to keep the hatchery up (stupid, your opponent is all-in, no reason to get greedy)
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12 pool just hard counters 4 pool in all scenarios.. You get 6 lings out when his 6 lings arrive at your gate.
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On May 26 2017 00:50 Ernaine wrote: Your average ZvZ opponent isn't going to adjust her/his opening to how often you do 4 pool or 12 hatch.
I think every Z should go overpool vs random people on 4 player maps. Unless you have a certain read on your opponent or you know you need to play safe because you are going to outclass your opponent either way.
Also, it is more likely that you want the opening that helps you improve the fastest. Not the opening that allows you to win the most.
If you outclass all your opponents, maybe you should find better opponents. Certainly, his strategy is not the highest win % vs opponents of lesser skill, but that shouldn't be of too much concern. Unless maybe you have JvZ level of play. (edit: didn't read your post properly. Disregard this paragraph.)
It is quite interesting to have a strategy that cannot be exploited. Mainly for tournament play or high level ladder with a very limited pool of players. For ladder play, it would be better to analyze the opening trend of your player base and find the best (single) opening against those. It's a nice find though. However, the concerns mentioned (additional openings, maps, etc.) have to be further addressed.
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Thank you guys! Taking in consideration your new suggestions, I made this new equilibrium: --------------------------------------------------------------- CONDITION: Maps large enough to be sure you have >50% chances of holding a 4P with a 12P
EQUILIBRIUM STRATEGY: 3/10: 9P 6/10: 12P 1/10: 12H
This strategy ensure at least a 50% win rate vs all strategies! ---------------------------------------------------------------
See ya!
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On June 24 2017 22:39 kogeT wrote: 12 pool just hard counters 4 pool in all scenarios.. You get 6 lings out when his 6 lings arrive at your gate. the 6 lings get to your base slightly earlier, but you can cancel your hatch and throw down two sunkens if he brings drones to sunken you
the only way to lose is to try to defend your hatchery with drones - and it should really be 5p with a drone or two for sunkens
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What's more interesting is 9p vs. in base 11h 10p scout 10g
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I had a long discussion about this with a bitcoin enthusiast. Apparently we should just discard the law of independent events and therefore mixed strategy.
I'm pretty interested in this thread though. I was a professional game theorist for about 20 months.
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You have to take into account two things: scouting advantage on a four-player map, and rush distance. For example, if you have a short rush distance, an aggressive build may do more damage versus and economic build, if the rush distance is greater, the economic build has more time to prepare, and aggressive builds may not do as much damage. Scouting advantage happens on three or four-player maps when one person sends their initial overlord the 'wrong way', and the other sends one the 'right way'.
Don't even get me started on building placement.
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EQUILIBRIUM STRATEGY: 3/10: 9P 6/10: 12P 1/10: 12H
Is this saying you achieve statistical equilibrium if you play 9 pool 30% of the time, etc?
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On March 01 2018 03:13 Dazed. wrote: EQUILIBRIUM STRATEGY: 3/10: 9P 6/10: 12P 1/10: 12H
Is this saying you achieve statistical equilibrium if you play 9 pool 30% of the time, etc? You have 50% win rate vs. any strategy, assuming you have the win rates in the OP post vs. those strategies
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as having published the iterative market thesis I guess I would say you should view this on a game-by-game basis, although that is not what my professional recognition received was.
you might consider:
game 1 game 2 and how (though not precisely in a tree) we view this question in the infinities.
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