(H) i just can't believe why i lose ? ZvT
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AcMilan91
105 Posts
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arb
Noobville17915 Posts
Gas was way too late for mutas, and by the time they had just finished you were floating 2k or more. Terran wasnt good either but he was constantly producing units at the very worst. Work on macro and that kind of thing mostly i would say, also refining your build order. You won't always get hatch blocked like that cuz most Terrans won't 6? scout i think he did. | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
On September 08 2017 23:08 arb wrote: Your macro is incredibly fucking bad is your problem. Gas was way too late for mutas, and by the time they had just finished you were floating 2k or more. Terran wasnt good either but he was constantly producing units at the very worst. Work on macro and that kind of thing mostly i would say, also refining your build order. You won't always get hatch blocked like that cuz most Terrans won't 6? scout i think he did. so just play and work on my macro right? | ||
arb
Noobville17915 Posts
On September 08 2017 23:50 AcMilan91 wrote: so just play and work on my macro right? look up a more defined build order, im not a zerg player obviously but i think the trend now is gas after 3rd hatch starts so you can have mutas by 6minutes or something 6:30? i think. but yes work on macro, ideally unless youre going for more mutas put hydra den down after your first round is started, also i think evo chamber for +1 carapace is good at this time also but yes work on your macro especially. that terran wouldnt have won that game if you'd had money, he had no scvs and only 3 rax when i stopped watching(85%? finished with the rep?) | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
this guy is good i think i got mutas early but damn so many turrents what could i do, i know my lurkers are late but damn | ||
Ramiel
United States1220 Posts
1. Metabolic boost was late 2. Supply Stuck on 27 (build overlord on 23) 3. Horrendous scouting 4. Built 4 overlords instead of 3 at 35 5. The second your muta are out, and you start lurker tech you stop macroing. At 8min into the game you have not started hive or +1 cara. You are floating near 1K minerals and 600gas. all larva are idle, drones are idle, and even though your lurker upgrade is 75% complete, you don't have a single hydra. 6. At 8:30 you build 18 lings, instead of a single hydra. I stopped watching there because that is inexcusably bad. You don't have the APM for mutas. You can either practice muta openings more, or try lurker openings- so that way you can actually macro during the midgame. You don't have the mechanics. | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
On September 09 2017 00:39 Ramiel wrote: On the second replay 1. Metabolic boost was late 2. Supply Stuck on 27 (build overlord on 23) 3. Horrendous scouting 4. Built 4 overlords instead of 3 at 35 5. The second your muta are out, and you start lurker tech you stop macroing. At 8min into the game you have not started hive or +1 cara. You are floating near 1K minerals and 600gas. all larva are idle, drones are idle, and even though your lurker upgrade is 75% complete, you don't have a single hydra. 6. At 8:30 you build 18 lings, instead of a single hydra. I stopped watching there because that is inexcusably bad. You don't have the APM for mutas. You can either practice muta openings more, or try lurker openings- so that way you can actually macro during the midgame. You don't have the mechanics. Hmm, i'll practice my macro as much as i can, i am new player btw, second week, thanks for letting me know on what should i improve | ||
-Frog-
United States514 Posts
as soon as you make your initial lurkers put down a queen's nest and head to hive, racing to defilers is so important in this match up. when you play better terrans they will put pressure on you so much faster, and having dark swarm will be the difference between life and death. | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
On September 09 2017 01:12 -Frog- wrote: when you play 3 hatch muta you need to get your lurkers out ASAP, if you watch any pro fpvod they always drop the hydra den as soon as they make the initial 9 mutas or after they make 2 more and get up to 11. you can even hotkey the hydra den so that when you are microing the mutas you can start lurker upgrade the second it is done. you also need to make 3 hydras at this time and send them to the ramp of your 3rd. hotkey those lurkers as well and morph them the second the lurker research is done as soon as you make your initial lurkers put down a queen's nest and head to hive, racing to defilers is so important in this match up. when you play better terrans they will put pressure on you so much faster, and having dark swarm will be the difference between life and death. Thank you alot, i still keep forgetting about aome things, but practice will make it perfect | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
terran went one base i saw his early gas so i took hydra den and made some hydras to take care of wraiths and then one attack boom i am dead? where is my mistake ? i think its late lurkers or bad attack with hydras in his base ? | ||
Luddite
United States2315 Posts
On September 09 2017 00:43 AcMilan91 wrote: Hmm, i'll practice my macro as much as i can, i am new player btw, second week, thanks for letting me know on what should i improve As a new player, bear in mind that mechanics is more important than strategy. Especially macro- you're probably losing more units from not building them than what actually gets killed in fights. If you're feeling frustrated and want to win, you'll probably have more success with a stupid, simple strategy like 2 base ultras, rather than the complicated strategies that you see pros using. | ||
L_Master
United States7946 Posts
On September 17 2017 01:25 AcMilan91 wrote: http://bwreplays.com/0q9bo terran went one base i saw his early gas so i took hydra den and made some hydras to take care of wraiths and then one attack boom i am dead? where is my mistake ? i think its late lurkers or bad attack with hydras in his base ? Initial hydra were good. Then you got hydra upgrades all the way and keep making more hydra. That's no good. Most common follow up to 2 part wraith is to get 3 rax and mm pressure. This terran does less rax but gets tanks. Hydra are still horrible against that. Better is to make a few token hydra to defend the wraiths, then get your muta out, and then transition into lurker like normal to defend the large terran bio balls. Marine absolutely SHRED hydras. Making muta at 10:00 isn't worth it. Either go muta right away or not at all against early bio/tank. Then to top it off you suicide all your muta and hydra right into a walled off main base. Legitmate question: Why did you do that? Did you really think it would work? | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
On September 17 2017 04:25 L_Master wrote: Initial hydra were good. Then you got hydra upgrades all the way and keep making more hydra. That's no good. Most common follow up to 2 part wraith is to get 3 rax and mm pressure. This terran does less rax but gets tanks. Hydra are still horrible against that. Better is to make a few token hydra to defend the wraiths, then get your muta out, and then transition into lurker like normal to defend the large terran bio balls. Marine absolutely SHRED hydras. Making muta at 10:00 isn't worth it. Either go muta right away or not at all against early bio/tank. Then to top it off you suicide all your muta and hydra right into a walled off main base. Legitmate question: Why did you do that? Did you really think it would work? Not of course, i just pissed off... But thanks for the answer, so hydras only against wraith, i should not upgrade them against terran? | ||
L_Master
United States7946 Posts
On September 17 2017 06:44 AcMilan91 wrote: Not of course, i just pissed off... But thanks for the answer, so hydras only against wraith, i should not upgrade them against terran? Against bio...generally no. There is a hydra lurk style you can play, but pure hydra will almost never be effective against bio. Why were you pissed off when you suicided? At time of suicide you were in a decent spot. | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
my last game against some 1 base terran who just wanna finish game so fast :D http://bwreplays.com/736mt and then 1750 mmr terran i did everything in build order but he just had that map control all the time i mean this matchup is really really hard http://bwreplays.com/hzp1v | ||
xehcechbsky
9 Posts
When they do push out, surround with all those lings and fly in the mutas. If it looks like you can get lurkers down before they reach your bases, don't engage before then. You could have easily held your 3rd with earlier lurks, more lings and your mutas alive. Hydras should be ready to morph at your 3rd when research finishes. Then use mutas to delay their expansions. They give you map control, don't throw that away for a few SCVs. | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
On September 17 2017 11:07 xehcechbsky wrote: A different perspective: Keep your mutas alive. Don't even go into their base. See your money pile up while you micro the mutas? Spend that on more lings. Spend it on hydra for lurkers. Unless they move out to push your 3rd or nat, there is really no need to attack. You're getting your 3rd gas, you're in great shape. When they do push out, surround with all those lings and fly in the mutas. If it looks like you can get lurkers down before they reach your bases, don't engage before then. You could have easily held your 3rd with earlier lurks, more lings and your mutas alive. Hydras should be ready to morph at your 3rd when research finishes. Then use mutas to delay their expansions. They give you map control, don't throw that away for a few SCVs. oh ok,i wont be go further in base in advance.... | ||
RomeD
16 Posts
2. get gud 3. ??? 4. PROFIT | ||
shall_burn
252 Posts
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quirinus
Croatia2489 Posts
keep it up AcMilan91! | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
On September 18 2017 16:40 quirinus wrote: its good, at least he doesnt open a new thread for every question. it's actually nice to see him be persistent and improve. makes helping him much more enjoyable, since you can see him grow. keep it up AcMilan91! Thank you, this is my thread where i will be updating | ||
Finch518
United States34 Posts
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AcMilan91
105 Posts
hmm i lost in this game somehow something weird.. my thoughts... it was random , that's the reason why i open wih 9 pool. Lack of scouting from me i thought he had one base tech but i forgot in outsider there is 3rd base behind your main base... i failed with mutas ...too much sunkens i thought he is doing something tricky (as i said i thought nit was one base) i could win with lurkers but smh i didnt... i didnt defend my third base later because i was in hurry to win.. i underastimate my opponent.. lack of drones later i think i could win this ez... Your thoughts? | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
what is this btw? one base mech ? how to counter this with zerg btw? | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
standard build with little tweeks , i mean cmon guys is my macro really that bad | ||
ii.blitzkrieg
Canada1122 Posts
You dealt with a late bunker rush fine but lost 2 drones, not a huge deal you should be way ahead with 3 hatch muta vs a 2 rax academy, as long as your sunken line doesn't get busted. You had zero scouting after you lost a few lings, retreated to your nat and made 3 sunks with no idea what terran has, no overlord or ling outside his base to see if he's expanding/pushing. 3 hatch muta, the mutas should be popping out around 6:30 but yours were like 8:45 and you had no lurkers until like 13-14 minutes. and defiler is ~17 minutes, all super late by unforced errors. Go watch the replay yourself and watch your base when you are microing your mutas, you have completely idle larva, not building anything for like 3 full minutes and stack 1500/1500++ gas and mins by 12 min mark. You did a lot more damage to yourself than you did to the terran by focusing only on your mutalisk micro for so long. Get lurkers ASAP after muta and 3rd base up, pump drones and get hive+defiler ASAP. After all that you were still in the game but you stacked 3k+ min and gas at the end. | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
On September 30 2017 09:26 ii.blitzkrieg wrote: Just watched the last one you uploaded, yes your macro is bad but it's a pretty common thing for new players. You should focus on getting your own build down in single player first. Go look up the build you want to do on liquipedia and try doing it a few times in single player so you have some familiarity with it without any pressure. You dealt with a late bunker rush fine but lost 2 drones, not a huge deal you should be way ahead with 3 hatch muta vs a 2 rax academy, as long as your sunken line doesn't get busted. You had zero scouting after you lost a few lings, retreated to your nat and made 3 sunks with no idea what terran has, no overlord or ling outside his base to see if he's expanding/pushing. 3 hatch muta, the mutas should be popping out around 6:30 but yours were like 8:45 and you had no lurkers until like 13-14 minutes. and defiler is ~17 minutes, all super late by unforced errors. Go watch the replay yourself and watch your base when you are microing your mutas, you have completely idle larva, not building anything for like 3 full minutes and stack 1500/1500++ gas and mins by 12 min mark. You did a lot more damage to yourself than you did to the terran by focusing only on your mutalisk micro for so long. Get lurkers ASAP after muta and 3rd base up, pump drones and get hive+defiler ASAP. After all that you were still in the game but you stacked 3k+ min and gas at the end. i know that build pretty well but the problem is the beginning of the game that strange thing he did with 2 rax academy i didnt know how to change strategy to 3 hatch muta | ||
virpi
Germany3598 Posts
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AcMilan91
105 Posts
ok here is basic information about this new one Mech build. i saw early gas, i went hydras ,and then this so stupid map i dont understand how to play this map... i drop lurkers i done welll but i didnt see his secret base..whre is my mistake i just keep losing lurkers to liek 50 tanks and goliaths... ffs Second one http://bwreplays.com/tg2lk same thing mech build... mass vultures he has so much map control i dont know how .. 5 bases i only have 4 ... 150 supply vs 50..... damn how is he 1400 mmr like me ? | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
i am satisfed how things goes but later in game i dont have clue what should i do he just turtle with tanks and i cant break through what do u think i should do http://bwreplays.com/ptzfq | ||
craz3d
Bulgaria856 Posts
On October 08 2017 00:50 AcMilan91 wrote: my first long game http://bwreplays.com/ptzfq i am satisfed how things goes but later in game i dont have clue what should i do he just turtle with tanks and i cant break through what do u think i should do http://bwreplays.com/ptzfq -I think you threw away a little too many mutas. Instead of engaging his mnm squad, you should fly in and out behind the cliff of his natural. By doing this you could have killed the turrets there and gotten some scv kills, although you have to be on the lookout for scans that might give vision behind his cliff. -Your carapace upgrade seemed late. The evo chamber stood idle for the longest time. -You failed to notice he took a whole main and natural and was mining trouble free for at least a third of the game. This may have cost you the game. -I would have liked to see the defilers coming into play quicker. There was a gap of one or two minutes between when the consume upgrade finished and when you finally tried to mount an attack on his tank line. -You nearly broke his main defense in front of his natural at 20 minutes, but you lacked reinforcements due to no money. On the other hand, his reinforcements weren't delayed because he had more bases than you. -When you see the mech switch you need to start exploiting its weaknesses, namely the lack of mobility. This can be done by attacking in multiple places at once as well as dropping. You kept trying to hit his front over and over. You're not taking him out of his comfort zone enough and so he has all the time in the world to irradiate things. Imagine having to decide between defending your production buildings from a 24 zergling drop or paying attention to the battle at the front. All in all, a good effort by you. | ||
james1024
118 Posts
On the second replay 1. Metabolic boost was late 2. Supply Stuck on 27 (build overlord on 23) 3. Horrendous scouting 4. Built 4 overlords instead of 3 at 35 5. The second your muta are out, and you start lurker tech you stop macroing. At 8min into the game you have not started hive or +1 cara. You are floating near 1K minerals and 600gas. all larva are idle, drones are idle, and even though your lurker upgrade is 75% complete, you don't have a single hydra. 6. At 8:30 you build 18 lings, instead of a single hydra. This guy knows his stuff. In ZvT you have to be very tight for the first 10-minutes... On another note, AcMilian, did you watch killer's zvt games from the ro16? Specifically, where he researched his lurker-tech BEFORE getting 11 mutas? I'd reccomend that, as very good koreans will be fast enough to almost always deny your 3hydras-at-ramp before they hatch, and the other poster was very smart to say that mutas don't really do much other than carry you forward, these days... this lurker-then-muta style seems like quite a good way to play! And zvt is all about knowing lots of builds! It's definitely the best matchup! ok here is basic information about this new one Mech build. i saw early gas, i went hydras ,and then this so stupid map i dont understand how to play this map... i drop lurkers i done welll but i didnt see his secret base..whre is my mistake i just keep losing lurkers to liek 50 tanks and goliaths... ffs Second one http://bwreplays.com/tg2lk same thing mech build... mass vultures he has so much map control i dont know how .. 5 bases i only have 4 ... 150 supply vs 50..... damn how is he 1400 mmr like me ? You sound discouraged... Enjoy learning, it takes a lot of effort to learn this matchup, zvp and zvz are much easier to get decent at... Don't go hydras against pure mech, this Terran build doesn't allow for vessels, and mass muta is a very hard counter to it. Like, if he goes straight mech, or almost straight mech, sunk up, and put your expansions on the "Islands" of fighting-spirit, (The 2nd natural's, the small bases with 2 ramps) then go pure, mass, mutas, with cara+2, and watch all his goliaths die as he tries to fight uphill, and he won't have vessels because going pure mech doesn't allow for them as they cost too much vespene. Take 2 bases on these "hills," you'll have 3 groups of overlorded-mutas, once you crush his 15 goliath-army on the hills, run over and kill his 3rd... That'll probly be game, as he'll never really get going off two base, finish him with ultra, he'll surly die. Only if he goes straight to mech, tho, if he goes standard, his vessels will wreck you. If he plays standard 5-rax into mech, go for killer's build, it's very strong... If you think this is tough, wait til you're dealing with drops, it's an artform, and the hardest matchup. Master your zergling control. Go 9-pool speed sometimes, and get a feel for just rushing him, every zerg cuts his teeth learning to micro lings... I've beaten gosu koreans with a good ling rush, but don't get addicted, or you'll neglect your macro, which is more important, but zergs should know how to rush! zerg is rush or mass. Second, master muta controls, try Jaedong's build vs Iris in the CJvsOz winnerleague final (2008?), learn to do a pure muta pressure-kill. Neither of these strats will be what you'd use at the top... But you have to get a feel for these two important forces: Mutas and Lings at your disposal, so try these pressure builds... too... if u have time. Also, learn to just skip the defilers, sometimes, especially as you are learning. I lost a close game against a good korean because I was fussing around with defilers along with my ultra army, and ended up losing, whereas I would have swept him without the defs. Ultras are your death-broom, that's the savior zvt philosophy, keep him busy with mutas, then lurkers, then boom, 14 ultras overrun everything... Hopefully before he takes a 3rd or 4th... This should help you at 1600... The last thing you want to is having to resort to queens/swarms of late-game adrenal-lings against a 200/200mech army. If he masses up to two huge tank armies camping outside your two naturals... with minefields infront??? well, you're in trouble. Try to crush him with a well controlled pacing for 13-minutes, concluding with a big ultra charge, cheers. But it sounds like mech-rush is troubling you... it really shouldn't! Terrans go straight mech cuz it's like autopilot, but mass muta is a hard counter to it! I wouldn't recommend hydras to stop this type of play, sunkens/mutas will stop him, cuz he won't have vessels! Just goliaths... | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
guys how to counter this mass marines, mass vessels... look at this game please | ||
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