5 hatch hydras, but somehow he has so much bigger army than mine,why we hade similiar apm, is he smurf of something like that, i am about 1450 mmr, getting frustrated to be rekt like this
(H) ZvP again?
Forum Index > Brood War Strategy |
AcMilan91
105 Posts
5 hatch hydras, but somehow he has so much bigger army than mine,why we hade similiar apm, is he smurf of something like that, i am about 1450 mmr, getting frustrated to be rekt like this | ||
Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
-Over reacted and made two sunkens in your natural -Supply blocked for ages -Delayed your lair by like 5-6s -Creep colony at your third for no reason -Mining second gas even you cant support anything with your drone count -Thus it cripples your economy -You start sunkening up all over the place because you cant defend your third ramp, wouldnt of had to do this if you took the natural -Going 5 hatch hydra but doesnt even have 5th hatch by 7:30, should of been down ages before this -You also skipped spire after your lair, which is the standard play to do. I recommend doing 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch. -You got overlord sight range, which was pointless. -Lack of tech (spire/scourge), lack of droning has left you blind and behind, he does some good eco damage. -Toss runs you over as hes been ahead all game. getting frustrated to be rekt like this Get used to it, thats what broodwar is. Never going to be a point where someone doesnt rek you. | ||
Ramiel
United States1220 Posts
You are not even following a build order from what i can tell. Best advice I can give you- go into a game with no other players, and practice this build to perfection. You should never have an idle worker, your minerals should never go above 100 before 30 supply, you should never be supply blocked. All of your mining bases should have nice saturation. IE you shouldn't have 1230947102348 drones in your main and 4 at your nat, and 2344 at your 3rd. Do this 12 times. Then watch FPVOD's of pros using this build. Study the vods, watch them- emulate what they are doing. Recognize the flow of their build, and how they are playing into the P. Then try playing someone. They are going to harass you, you are going to need to scout, build zerglings in response to their zealot pressure and micro your zerglings. You'll start seeing improvement when you can do all of those things- and your build is still spot on. However at your level, even doing one of those things (while keeping your build order intact) is still beyond your mechanics. Just focus on your mechanics. Once you get past that threshold, and can properly perform builds- you'll see yourself having a very easy time against 1400ish opponents. | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
On September 11 2017 05:47 Ramiel wrote: 1900s mmr zerg here: You are not even following a build order from what i can tell. Best advice I can give you- go into a game with no other players, and practice this build to perfection. You should never have an idle worker, your minerals should never go above 100 before 30 supply, you should never be supply blocked. All of your mining bases should have nice saturation. IE you shouldn't have 1230947102348 drones in your main and 4 at your nat, and 2344 at your 3rd. Do this 12 times. Then watch FPVOD's of pros using this build. Study the vods, watch them- emulate what they are doing. Recognize the flow of their build, and how they are playing into the P. Then try playing someone. They are going to harass you, you are going to need to scout, build zerglings in response to their zealot pressure and micro your zerglings. You'll start seeing improvement when you can do all of those things- and your build is still spot on. However at your level, even doing one of those things (while keeping your build order intact) is still beyond your mechanics. Just focus on your mechanics. Once you get past that threshold, and can properly perform builds- you'll see yourself having a very easy time against 1400ish opponents. thanks, can you tell me how to scout ? | ||
Ramiel
United States1220 Posts
On September 11 2017 05:52 AcMilan91 wrote: thanks, can you tell me how to scout ? Tell me you're joking. | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
not early i mean mid game, i cant get through an army with drone, lings etc. maybe to send scourges? | ||
-Frog-
United States514 Posts
On September 11 2017 07:08 AcMilan91 wrote: not early i mean mid game, i cant get through an army with drone, lings etc. maybe to send scourges? zerg always has a big scouting advantage over protoss, after the FE wall in is complete you park your overlord outside his natural to watch for zealot movement and you can make lings in response. around the timing that your spire starts you can send this overlord into his base to check what he's doing. you'll be looking for # of gateways, # of stargates and any other tech. typically protoss builds citadel and then templar archives but you want to make sure he's not going robo for reaver tech after the corsairs come out theyll kill that overlord and you will have to rely on your first 4 scourge to 1. kill the corsair or drive it back to his base and 2. to scout his base | ||
Netto.
Poland522 Posts
On September 11 2017 07:08 AcMilan91 wrote: not early i mean mid game, i cant get through an army with drone, lings etc. maybe to send scourges? Normally you scout with your drone, later u can park one overlord close to his wall so you can see zealots moving. Another overlord in his main to see what he is doing. Later you can use scourges to take a quick look at his base. Also always look for new expansions so he doesn't sneak any hidden bases (common on this mmr). I also would like to mention that when you learn and practice your builds like people above told you, it could be useful to read some liquipedia and practice most common protoss builds too. This way you get an idea of what protoss can do and learn their basic timings - so even if you can't scout, you know what things you might expect (most of the time). | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
| ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
On September 11 2017 12:19 -Frog- wrote: what if he have goons and start killing my overlord? So just mass hydra?zerg always has a big scouting advantage over protoss, after the FE wall in is complete you park your overlord outside his natural to watch for zealot movement and you can make lings in response. around the timing that your spire starts you can send this overlord into his base to check what he's doing. you'll be looking for # of gateways, # of stargates and any other tech. typically protoss builds citadel and then templar archives but you want to make sure he's not going robo for reaver tech after the corsairs come out theyll kill that overlord and you will have to rely on your first 4 scourge to 1. kill the corsair or drive it back to his base and 2. to scout his base | ||
sCuMBaG
United Kingdom1144 Posts
On September 11 2017 20:02 AcMilan91 wrote: what if he have goons and start killing my overlord? So just mass hydra? Not quite sure what exactly you're asking here with the hydra statement. In terms of the scouting/losing the overlord - he will kill that overlord anyways as soon as his corsairs are out - so at least use it to get some information. | ||
Ramiel
United States1220 Posts
On September 11 2017 20:02 AcMilan91 wrote: what if he have goons and start killing my overlord? So just mass hydra? As I said before watch some pro gamer vods of zvp when they are using this stratagy. Watch 12 games, study them before posting here. You are going to see things like this played out again, and again. | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
| ||
L_Master
United States7946 Posts
On September 16 2017 01:52 AcMilan91 wrote: summary on my new replay? 31 mins long? if someone can take a look how does he killed 15 of my ultas so ez http://bwreplays.com/d9jw9 Tell me why you think he killed so many ultras easily and what you think was good/bad, then I'll take a look at the replay. It's very good to ask lots of questions and try to learn like you are, but your own posts need a little more analysis: It's strategy forum rules, plus it helps you learn MUCH better than if we just tell you exactly what's bad. | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
On September 16 2017 02:08 L_Master wrote: Tell me why you think he killed so many ultras easily and what you think was good/bad, then I'll take a look at the replay. It's very good to ask lots of questions and try to learn like you are, but your own posts need a little more analysis: It's strategy forum rules, plus it helps you learn MUCH better than if we just tell you exactly what's bad. I think he did so many drops and i didnt know how to react plus i think i should not go straight for main base, but he has so many reavers and ht on choke that my units just keep dying, and i should drop on the last attack and maybe i should not ragequit it was not over yet | ||
ajmbek
Italy459 Posts
On September 11 2017 12:19 -Frog- wrote: zerg always has a big scouting advantage over protoss, after the FE wall in is complete you park your overlord outside his natural to watch for zealot movement and you can make lings in response. around the timing that your spire starts you can send this overlord into his base to check what he's doing. you'll be looking for # of gateways, # of stargates and any other tech. typically protoss builds citadel and then templar archives but you want to make sure he's not going robo for reaver tech after the corsairs come out theyll kill that overlord and you will have to rely on your first 4 scourge to 1. kill the corsair or drive it back to his base and 2. to scout his base I disagree with this scauting idea to keep the overlord at the wall of the natural. All you can see there with the ovi can be seen by 2 zerglings! The ovi must be in the main or where is the tech. You need to know it it is a +1 speedlot way before scourge time. Keep in mind that for the majority of the game it is the zerg that decides what to do and protoss have to react. And at any time you can send a speedovi to see what is caming next or to check the army composition of protoss. Also have 1 zergling at evry P possibile expansion | ||
ajmbek
Italy459 Posts
On September 11 2017 20:02 AcMilan91 wrote: what if he have goons and start killing my overlord? So just mass hydra? Well, if the bo that you are following is the 3h spire 5h hidra then your midgame idea is to mass hidras anyway. Isn't it? 1 dragon does not mean mass dragon. But 1 dragon, gates, and core spinning, can be | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
me and my friend playing...One base protoss, i saw that , so i went 2 hatches in neutral and then just poof i am dead..i had 3 exp he had 2 ...what is the reason i think there is something i am doing really bad... | ||
L_Master
United States7946 Posts
On September 16 2017 01:52 AcMilan91 wrote: summary on my new replay? 31 mins long? if someone can take a look how does he killed 15 of my ultas so ez http://bwreplays.com/d9jw9 Okay, so things I am seeing: -Your opponent plays gate expo, it's good you're scouting with OL, but you want to see with drone what he is doing. In case of gate expo you need to make 8 lings as soon as pool finishes, your pool has been done for a bit and no lings (or drones have been made despite zlot at your base. These zlots are probably going to hurt -Well, turns out your drilling was pretty good and the other guy got scared, so it didn't turn out bad. A better protoss would have made your life hell. -Gas is done for a LONG time before you start mining. The main point of 2 hatch -> gas -> third hatch is to get those scourge out for first sair. 20s delay totally nullifies this. -He's been saving zlots and moves out a wierd time, you're sorta ready with a sunken but it would be better if it was done. Unfortunately, your ling speed is not quite done since you were slow to mine case. Typical response here would be to keep a general tab on his zlot count and then spam a round of lings from your hatches if he moves out - You handle it fairly well, and then he gets a bit scared. Ideally that sunken would have been faster or you would have just made more lings but it turned out okay. -Spore colony in your main?! WTF.... You even saw with OL the timing of his stargate and that he wasn't making sairs, you don't even need a spore at your natural, you basically never need a spore in your main. There aren't overlords there. -Your lair finishes and you don't make a spire. Instead you make more hatches. This is a BIG deal. DON'T do this. The entire purpose of going for the quicker gas is to get that spire up. It takes you over 1:30 to make the spire. Luckily this toss wasn't making sairs but that's disaster in a more normal game. -You haven't made any major mistakes, but the small things here and there add up. You're now at 8:00 just barely reaching full saturation and ready to make hydra. That's a solid minute or more behind. Better players would be attacking you with zealot templar right now and you don't have a single hydra out. -10:30 or so is a good talking point. You went for an attack on protoss. He had too much so you turned tail and ran. However, despite having a good bit of defense you keep spamming out hydra. Protoss already repelled your attack and is taking a third. More hydra means less drones means an even weaker economy. You missed your window to apply pressure with hydra because your build wasn't executed well enough, just making more hydra will only put you further behind. You should be droning up and thinking about how you can get back in the long game. You can't overrun a 3 base toss with hydra off 6 hatch. -Well...this toss is an idiot and just stands there with his army at his natural, doesn't use his reavers, and let's you kill his third. That was a travesty that shouldn't have happened, but now this game is actually a pretty good position for you. -14:00 - No reason to try and bust. You're good and ahead. Set a contain with lurkers as you take more bases is great, but you're not at the point of invincibility where you can throw stuff at him and he'll automatically die. -3.5k minerals and gas. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. You could have 50+ more supply than you do now. You really don't want this to happen to you. If it does, spam done another 4 or 5 hatcheries. Anything to spend that money. Don't sit on a 3k bank. -Drones. You're still ahead but you've just been spamming army. Zerg is all about sneaking in drones any moment you can. Especially with his harass you barely have a two base economy. You could easily have 60 drones by now, instead you have like 25. -Your gas mining is really whacky. You are mining one gas with three drones, one with a single drone, and another with two... -Your upgrading is good, keep doing that well! -18:00 STOP TRYING TO KILL PROTOSS! Contain him, make a shit ton of drones, defend his harass, flood him with units from 10+ hatcheries. -18:00 You know protoss is harassing some. But you keep sending all of your units to his front. Why? It's one thing if you're a little unprepared for harass one, but he is flying around with reavers. Keep some units at home so his harass isn't able to be lethal. - Please don't tell me your going to let protoss take 12' for free... - You kinda realize it, but not till it's all set up and he can easily defend. Gotta watch those expos. - You're playing super "one track" First you were trying to kill protoss obsessively at his nat and never stopped making hydra. Now you're blindly attack his third. He has all his army there. Take a poke somewhere his army isn't, like his nat. Make him run around till you find a weak spot. You're not going to break a highground expo where protoss has his entire army with reaver and templar up there. -The big attack with the ultras. It doesn't work very well for you because you don't use swarm, there are no lings, protoss has a wall so all off his dragoons are attacking while only 1 of your ultras is, all your ultras clump up hard in the tight choke so he can rain down storm after storm on them. You lost a control group of ultra to like 6 templar and 8 goons. That's rough. Add lings, use swarm, pick better ways of attacking. - You're finally getting a good attack going with the reinforcements after the ultra...but unfortunatley you've mined out all your bases except one and just don't have enough economy to back it up. Toss can reinforce faster. Main thing there is that is absolutely a game you should have won. It should have gone better for you initially with your first attack, but you're build was just a little slow and inefficient. You almost loss there, but toss got stupid and gave away his third. You know have a big lead but you threw it away in three majors ways: 1) Kept spamming nothing but army instead of making some more drones 2) Failure to leave anything at home to deal with a consistent harassing protoss 3) Kept suiciding into a turtling protoss. You either need to be vigilante and notice expos before they get up, or just recognize your ahead and spam drones + expansions yourself. If toss is turtling it's because he knows he can't beat you and needs to defend bases. This is your cue that toss isn't going to do anything, so make a shitload of drones and 3 more bases. Then you have unstoppable economy and just overrun him. | ||
L_Master
United States7946 Posts
- You sorta let him do everything. He gets tech + expansion really easily, especially since you make random creep colonies. Protoss went for a tech build, you don't need one sunken colony, let alone two. You're already pretty behind. -ANOTHER pointless lair. If you're going to get a lair, USE IT. Makes lurkers or spire asap. Otherwise don't get the lair so quick. -Protoss has two bases and your spamming hydra. This indicates to me you want to kill him. Unfortunately you're pretty far behind so you probably won't be able to. - It's your friends turn for some mistakes. He hasn't been making nearly enough workers, so you're terrible economy isn't that much worse than his. He also didn't get storm and is terrified of your hydra so he reacts with a ton of cannons. Now the game is sort of even again. -You realize your attack isn't going to kill him, so you go for a third. This is good. - I'm beginning to wonder if you know what a drone is. What good is a third base if it has no drones to send to it. - Lol. You send all your drones from the natural to the third. Now there is one drone mining at the natural. So you didn't gain any mining advantage by sending those drones to the third, and in fact lost 20s of travel time not mining. It's only worth it to transfer drones if you have more than 1 per patch. - The main thing keeping you in this game is that your friend can't wait for his templar and keeps donating groups of 4-6 zlots to you so he never gets an army. - Same problem as last game, all hydra at his base and non at home so he fucks up overlords. - You go for a bust. It's a bad decision overall with all those cannons...but you played it really nice once you had the opening with the lurkers. You shouldn't have done it, but your on the fly decision making was excellent and it turned into a good move. - Unfortunately you don't seem aware of what is going on for him at 3'... - 17:00 that was fucking awkward. You had plenty of army to defend, and had actually added some drones as well, but you just let him walk to the bottom base and then go up and kill your third as you got blocked by your own defense. Let me reiterate: You had 2 sunkens, 7 lurkers, 20 hydras and you lost your third to 9 zlots and 2 goons. -18:00 panic mode and you go for a suicide attack. Not that it really matters after what happened at 17:00. That moment at 17:00 went from you being marginally behind to completely dead. On September 17 2017 02:16 AcMilan91 wrote: http://bwreplays.com/ajsdp me and my friend playing...One base protoss, i saw that , so i went 2 hatches in neutral and then just poof i am dead..i had 3 exp he had 2 ...what is the reason i think there is something i am doing really bad... Yep. You died cause you let his tiny army kill your base when you had defense there + an army twice as big including lurkers which fuck up his almost all zlot force. It should be pretty obvious watching the replay that army should never have hurt you... | ||
L_Master
United States7946 Posts
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AcMilan91
105 Posts
On September 17 2017 03:57 L_Master wrote: Okay, so things I am seeing: -Your opponent plays gate expo, it's good you're scouting with OL, but you want to see with drone what he is doing. In case of gate expo you need to make 8 lings as soon as pool finishes, your pool has been done for a bit and no lings (or drones have been made despite zlot at your base. These zlots are probably going to hurt -Well, turns out your drilling was pretty good and the other guy got scared, so it didn't turn out bad. A better protoss would have made your life hell. -Gas is done for a LONG time before you start mining. The main point of 2 hatch -> gas -> third hatch is to get those scourge out for first sair. 20s delay totally nullifies this. -He's been saving zlots and moves out a wierd time, you're sorta ready with a sunken but it would be better if it was done. Unfortunately, your ling speed is not quite done since you were slow to mine case. Typical response here would be to keep a general tab on his zlot count and then spam a round of lings from your hatches if he moves out - You handle it fairly well, and then he gets a bit scared. Ideally that sunken would have been faster or you would have just made more lings but it turned out okay. -Spore colony in your main?! WTF.... You even saw with OL the timing of his stargate and that he wasn't making sairs, you don't even need a spore at your natural, you basically never need a spore in your main. There aren't overlords there. -Your lair finishes and you don't make a spire. Instead you make more hatches. This is a BIG deal. DON'T do this. The entire purpose of going for the quicker gas is to get that spire up. It takes you over 1:30 to make the spire. Luckily this toss wasn't making sairs but that's disaster in a more normal game. -You haven't made any major mistakes, but the small things here and there add up. You're now at 8:00 just barely reaching full saturation and ready to make hydra. That's a solid minute or more behind. Better players would be attacking you with zealot templar right now and you don't have a single hydra out. -10:30 or so is a good talking point. You went for an attack on protoss. He had too much so you turned tail and ran. However, despite having a good bit of defense you keep spamming out hydra. Protoss already repelled your attack and is taking a third. More hydra means less drones means an even weaker economy. You missed your window to apply pressure with hydra because your build wasn't executed well enough, just making more hydra will only put you further behind. You should be droning up and thinking about how you can get back in the long game. You can't overrun a 3 base toss with hydra off 6 hatch. -Well...this toss is an idiot and just stands there with his army at his natural, doesn't use his reavers, and let's you kill his third. That was a travesty that shouldn't have happened, but now this game is actually a pretty good position for you. -14:00 - No reason to try and bust. You're good and ahead. Set a contain with lurkers as you take more bases is great, but you're not at the point of invincibility where you can throw stuff at him and he'll automatically die. -3.5k minerals and gas. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. You could have 50+ more supply than you do now. You really don't want this to happen to you. If it does, spam done another 4 or 5 hatcheries. Anything to spend that money. Don't sit on a 3k bank. -Drones. You're still ahead but you've just been spamming army. Zerg is all about sneaking in drones any moment you can. Especially with his harass you barely have a two base economy. You could easily have 60 drones by now, instead you have like 25. -Your gas mining is really whacky. You are mining one gas with three drones, one with a single drone, and another with two... -Your upgrading is good, keep doing that well! -18:00 STOP TRYING TO KILL PROTOSS! Contain him, make a shit ton of drones, defend his harass, flood him with units from 10+ hatcheries. -18:00 You know protoss is harassing some. But you keep sending all of your units to his front. Why? It's one thing if you're a little unprepared for harass one, but he is flying around with reavers. Keep some units at home so his harass isn't able to be lethal. - Please don't tell me your going to let protoss take 12' for free... - You kinda realize it, but not till it's all set up and he can easily defend. Gotta watch those expos. - You're playing super "one track" First you were trying to kill protoss obsessively at his nat and never stopped making hydra. Now you're blindly attack his third. He has all his army there. Take a poke somewhere his army isn't, like his nat. Make him run around till you find a weak spot. You're not going to break a highground expo where protoss has his entire army with reaver and templar up there. -The big attack with the ultras. It doesn't work very well for you because you don't use swarm, there are no lings, protoss has a wall so all off his dragoons are attacking while only 1 of your ultras is, all your ultras clump up hard in the tight choke so he can rain down storm after storm on them. You lost a control group of ultra to like 6 templar and 8 goons. That's rough. Add lings, use swarm, pick better ways of attacking. - You're finally getting a good attack going with the reinforcements after the ultra...but unfortunatley you've mined out all your bases except one and just don't have enough economy to back it up. Toss can reinforce faster. Main thing there is that is absolutely a game you should have won. It should have gone better for you initially with your first attack, but you're build was just a little slow and inefficient. You almost loss there, but toss got stupid and gave away his third. You know have a big lead but you threw it away in three majors ways: 1) Kept spamming nothing but army instead of making some more drones 2) Failure to leave anything at home to deal with a consistent harassing protoss 3) Kept suiciding into a turtling protoss. You either need to be vigilante and notice expos before they get up, or just recognize your ahead and spam drones + expansions yourself. If toss is turtling it's because he knows he can't beat you and needs to defend bases. This is your cue that toss isn't going to do anything, so make a shitload of drones and 3 more bases. Then you have unstoppable economy and just overrun him. those some hell of a good advices and tips, on every end of my games i see i have lower minerals than my opponents,i need to focus more on drones when i am safe just pump drones and send those on minerals | ||
-Frog-
United States514 Posts
On September 16 2017 16:51 ajmbek wrote: I disagree with this scauting idea to keep the overlord at the wall of the natural. All you can see there with the ovi can be seen by 2 zerglings! The ovi must be in the main or where is the tech. You need to know it it is a +1 speedlot way before scourge time. Keep in mind that for the majority of the game it is the zerg that decides what to do and protoss have to react. And at any time you can send a speedovi to see what is caming next or to check the army composition of protoss. Also have 1 zergling at evry P possibile expansion you keep the ovie outside the natural to watch for zealots, you send the ovie in before corsairs come out. you won't be able to get much useful information before that. watch any fpvod http://korhal.info.pl/#/korhal | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
Jaedong made a guide for newer players of what to do in ZvT and ZvP, general ideas. There's a lot of stuff you're wondering about that you can learn here: Jaedong Lesson. Make sure to turn on subtitles unless you understand Korean. | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
On September 22 2017 06:22 Dromar wrote: Hey, can't watch the replays right now, but just wanted to chime in with something that might help quite a bit. Jaedong made a guide for newer players of what to do in ZvT and ZvP, general ideas. There's a lot of stuff you're wondering about that you can learn here: Jaedong Lesson. Make sure to turn on subtitles unless you understand Korean. Yes, i watched them all i am opsessed with zerg vods | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
here again..i really dont understand,always same lose 50 gateaways and mass units and i am done, wtf .. i really find more easier to fight against terran than prottos, i dont have a clue what is my mission against protoss...dont attack him, def him, mass units...toss army is just fucking stronger,i am so pissed off | ||
Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
unfortunately the extra lings vs the cannon rush werent needed the ling runby was a simple waste, it is pointless to do at your level. you defended his 1st attack with 2 sunkens and 5 hatch hydras, at that point you are far behind. you stay on 5 hatches for very long time, make a late muta switch. the muta control is not the best. he just simply outmacros you. your mission against protoss as a "macro oriented" zerg player is to defend against his attacks in the most efficient way in order to get the most drones out as possible, until you have too much stuff and can outmacro him. yes there are various timing pressure builds which work too. but you are nowhere near to use them. if you want to practice you have to really focus on macro. macro macro macro that is sooooo important. you only have a specific amount of time which you have to split between macro and micro. and in general, the time you have for micro is the time AFTER you did macro. you need to practice on finishing your macro with less time needed. this will give you more time to micro/scout/multitask you tried to runby lings into his base, if you get some lings into his base, you will be behind. even if you can manage to teleport all your lings into his base, you will still be behind. the fact that you are devoting precious macro time in order to harass his base will disrupt your macro more than it will the enemies macro, effectively hurting yourself. for harass to be effective at all, you need that good macro basis. your muta switch was similar, apart from "a-moving" them, you had no time to use them effectively at all, because you were so busy with macro. the mutas just randomly died to goons and were a complete waste of minerals/gas, if would have been more effective to just make hydra/lurker and focus on macro. please stop forcing yourself to play a micro heavy macro game and focus on good macro first. play a macro oriented build order as good as possible, if you get lost and dont know how to keep on playing, 1 hatch will make drones and all the other hatches make units. | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
On September 23 2017 08:34 Bakuryu wrote: your spire is nearly 2 minutes late, invalidating your entire build. unfortunately the extra lings vs the cannon rush werent needed the ling runby was a simple waste, it is pointless to do at your level. you defended his 1st attack with 2 sunkens and 5 hatch hydras, at that point you are far behind. you stay on 5 hatches for very long time, make a late muta switch. the muta control is not the best. he just simply outmacros you. your mission against protoss as a "macro oriented" zerg player is to defend against his attacks in the most efficient way in order to get the most drones out as possible, until you have too much stuff and can outmacro him. yes there are various timing pressure builds which work too. but you are nowhere near to use them. if you want to practice you have to really focus on macro. macro macro macro that is sooooo important. you only have a specific amount of time which you have to split between macro and micro. and in general, the time you have for micro is the time AFTER you did macro. you need to practice on finishing your macro with less time needed. this will give you more time to micro/scout/multitask you tried to runby lings into his base, if you get some lings into his base, you will be behind. even if you can manage to teleport all your lings into his base, you will still be behind. the fact that you are devoting precious macro time in order to harass his base will disrupt your macro more than it will the enemies macro, effectively hurting yourself. for harass to be effective at all, you need that good macro basis. your muta switch was similar, apart from "a-moving" them, you had no time to use them effectively at all, because you were so busy with macro. the mutas just randomly died to goons and were a complete waste of minerals/gas, if would have been more effective to just make hydra/lurker and focus on macro. please stop forcing yourself to play a micro heavy macro game and focus on good macro first. play a macro oriented build order as good as possible, if you get lost and dont know how to keep on playing, 1 hatch will make drones and all the other hatches make units. Hmm thanks, i dont know what should i attack with mutas in ZvP, i need to focus on macro ok, i still need mechanincs i am only 4 weeks in brood war so, watching alot of vods etc. | ||
ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
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AcMilan91
105 Posts
On September 24 2017 20:50 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I would say, there is room for different playstyles, if you like to micro a lot you can do it but you must make sure that you just get your macro done fast and right at least and spend the rest of time microing or smtg. Micro can bring you a lot, value and pressure to your opponent, information, etc, but it generally won't bring you as much value as macroing well and also if you already macro well, then you will have more space to micro because you have stronger stuff relative to opponent => more freedom. Yeah, i get it | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
http://bwreplays.com/936af | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
one base prottos,i went 3 hatch hydra but somehow he beat me 2 times in row? how?!?!!? please this is so frustrating | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
and again same time 5 hatch hydra vs fucking FE and always the same 500 goon 500 zealots and gg why?!!?!?!?! why?! | ||
craz3d
Bulgaria856 Posts
On October 01 2017 04:47 AcMilan91 wrote: what is wrong with this game...he went some strange strategy and i destroyed him with 3 hatch muta but somehow mass goons and fucking gg? http://bwreplays.com/936af It was a 2 gateway rush into expand. Nothing strange about that. I don't main zerg, but here are some errors that stuck out to me: -Lack of scouting. Why isn't there an overlord above his natural or even in his base to see what's going on? You're constantly in the dark until 9 minutes in. -Lack of saturation at natural. Transfer two or three drones over. Better yet, make some more drones, although there was no way to know whether you were free to do so because you had no information about his whereabouts. -Lack of upgrades. -Your decision making with mutas is not optimal. There were times when you ran away from 4-5 dragoons when you had 7-8 mutas. Eventually those dragoons snowballed into a huge force together with storm support. -You try to force an engagement with your lurkers instead of containing him, which causes you to lose all your lurkers at 13:15. -Your macro starts to steadily suffer as the game goes on and you do more harass. -You are constantly aggressive, which is a good thing in and of itself, but when you notice that your attacks start to do almost no damage, it's time to switch gears. Set up a contain, or play more defensive with the lurkers while sniping observers with mutas and scourge. Take another expansion and tech to hive in order to get defilers and adrenaline glands for your lings, which are the proper counter to mass dragoon play. | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
On October 09 2017 00:29 craz3d wrote: It was a 2 gateway rush into expand. Nothing strange about that. I don't main zerg, but here are some errors that stuck out to me: -Lack of scouting. Why isn't there an overlord above his natural or even in his base to see what's going on? You're constantly in the dark until 9 minutes in. -Lack of saturation at natural. Transfer two or three drones over. Better yet, make some more drones, although there was no way to know whether you were free to do so because you had no information about his whereabouts. -Lack of upgrades. -Your decision making with mutas is not optimal. There were times when you ran away from 4-5 dragoons when you had 7-8 mutas. Eventually those dragoons snowballed into a huge force together with storm support. -You try to force an engagement with your lurkers instead of containing him, which causes you to lose all your lurkers at 13:15. -Your macro starts to steadily suffer as the game goes on and you do more harass. -You are constantly aggressive, which is a good thing in and of itself, but when you notice that your attacks start to do almost no damage, it's time to switch gears. Set up a contain, or play more defensive with the lurkers while sniping observers with mutas and scourge. Take another expansion and tech to hive in order to get defilers and adrenaline glands for your lings, which are the proper counter to mass dragoon play. Yeah, i nees more scouting and patience against protoss | ||
ortseam
996 Posts
On October 08 2017 02:03 AcMilan91 wrote: http://bwreplays.com/mmfhr and again same time 5 hatch hydra vs fucking FE and always the same 500 goon 500 zealots and gg why?!!?!?!?! why?! You didn't have enough drones. You only have around 25 when you started making units, and never really droned up again. 25 drones is a 2 base zerg economy , so you were playing 2 base zerg vs 3 base toss for the most part. You need around 35-40 drones (6 hatcheries) for 3 base economy and 60 drones (8-9 hatcheries) for 4 bases. 4 is the minimum you needed in this game. | ||
Glassface
2 Posts
Your issue in every one of those games primarily lies with : Your basic macro skills need work. You need to scout, you have OL there is no excuse. You need to learn not only your build orders through mid game but some standard ones of your opponents races as well. I strongly advise you take harder looks into your replays if you're still confused. Watch your supply, watch your macro, watch your opponent. If you truly feel your basic build order is good, focus on the mid-game where it seems you start to fall apart most frequently. We can't help you if you don't take the basic steps to help yourself. Provide more insight to your own games before you ask about deeper strategy questions. GL HF | ||
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