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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3208 Posts
Maps: ICCUP MotW Register for DT 59 here | ||
ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3208 Posts
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
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Letalis
Bulgaria180 Posts
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BulgarianToss
Bulgaria437 Posts
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Larvator
Ukraine87 Posts
On June 03 2013 16:42 ne4aJIb wrote: zerg imba t_t Zёrg is not imba. Master Yodo is: | ||
fold
Australia665 Posts
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ilovev
Korea (North)211 Posts
After that i go on vacation. Atleast month. Thx for attention. | ||
ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3208 Posts
On June 08 2013 22:26 ilovev wrote: DT # 59 and may be DT # 60 will be last in june. After that i go on vacation. Atleast month. Thx for attention. Yoda is going | ||
LuMiX
China5757 Posts
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SlowBullets
United States839 Posts
On June 09 2013 15:24 Metal[x] wrote: link isnt working? are you gonna play? stream it bro! | ||
t0ssboy
Bulgaria679 Posts
On June 08 2013 22:26 ilovev wrote: DT # 59 and may be DT # 60 will be last in june. After that i go on vacation. Atleast month. Thx for attention. There will be more defilers after you come back from vacation righT? | ||
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ilovev
Korea (North)211 Posts
try to fix... | ||
Mewka
Poland1458 Posts
On June 09 2013 15:33 ilovev wrote: site is down for now -- try to fix... no :O | ||
AleXoundOS
Georgia456 Posts
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uT)WhistleR
Sweden95 Posts
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greenelve
Germany1392 Posts
edit: My 520th post? Perfect worth it. | ||
Leguar
Russian Federation9 Posts
http://www.twitch.tv/sas_draw http://ru.twitch.tv/dyoda http://www.twitch.tv/tjdghks465 | ||
Sayle
United Kingdom3685 Posts
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Sayle
United Kingdom3685 Posts
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Leguar
Russian Federation9 Posts
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
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Mewka
Poland1458 Posts
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Sayle
United Kingdom3685 Posts
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Mewka
Poland1458 Posts
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Prof. Protoss
Germany744 Posts
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3208 Posts
hide your barracks, hide your academy, hide your engineering bay | ||
uT)WhistleR
Sweden95 Posts
cant belive anyone else, except for draw noticed this | ||
Terrorterran
Peru253 Posts
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pebble444
Italy2477 Posts
On June 09 2013 12:41 ne4aJIb wrote: Show nested quote + On June 08 2013 22:26 ilovev wrote: DT # 59 and may be DT # 60 will be last in june. After that i go on vacation. Atleast month. Thx for attention. Yoda is going And he will wait patiently for the one that will bring back Broodwar in pace of the dark force. | ||
ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3208 Posts
On June 11 2013 08:31 uT)WhistleR wrote: winner(neagle) is a hacker, me and my friend richie analyzed replays after the tour, if u wanna do it for urself check out the zvp on beltway(dont remember vs who) and the grandfinal cant belive anyone else, except for draw noticed this which rep? the one where neagle used two obs to get to terran main ? | ||
dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
On June 11 2013 10:02 ne4aJIb wrote: Show nested quote + On June 11 2013 08:31 uT)WhistleR wrote: winner(neagle) is a hacker, me and my friend richie analyzed replays after the tour, if u wanna do it for urself check out the zvp on beltway(dont remember vs who) and the grandfinal cant belive anyone else, except for draw noticed this which rep? the one where neagle used two obs to get to terran main ? he said ZvP, and I noticed his play style is VERY strange for his level. i.e against cryoc he makes 5observers on resonance II and doesn't even send them into the map, they idle @ his natural. Another example is his game sense, he seems to blind counter very consistently vs everyone, and move directly to counter armies. Another examples is against Weekly in the final when weekly sends to 12 oclock and he's already on his way to intercept. edit: also he do 2gateway vs terror both games, but 1 game he leaves goon on ramp when terror opened differently however he didn't scout so he wouldn't know its a different opening. against cryoc on FS he did a completely different opening which was a completely greedy blind counter to what cryoc was doing, no ob ever entered his base. a dt in a shuttle entered @ like 8th minute. | ||
Sinedd
Poland7052 Posts
On June 11 2013 09:24 pebble444 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 09 2013 12:41 ne4aJIb wrote: On June 08 2013 22:26 ilovev wrote: DT # 59 and may be DT # 60 will be last in june. After that i go on vacation. Atleast month. Thx for attention. Yoda is going And he will wait patiently for the one that will bring back Broodwar in pace of the dark force. thats.. bad 1 month or more without the tournament... awww maaaan ! | ||
LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
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BulgarianToss
Bulgaria437 Posts
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Letherebelight
Korea (South)29 Posts
On June 11 2013 10:08 dRaW wrote: Show nested quote + On June 11 2013 10:02 ne4aJIb wrote: On June 11 2013 08:31 uT)WhistleR wrote: winner(neagle) is a hacker, me and my friend richie analyzed replays after the tour, if u wanna do it for urself check out the zvp on beltway(dont remember vs who) and the grandfinal cant belive anyone else, except for draw noticed this which rep? the one where neagle used two obs to get to terran main ? he said ZvP, and I noticed his play style is VERY strange for his level. i.e against cryoc he makes 5observers on resonance II and doesn't even send them into the map, they idle @ his natural. Another example is his game sense, he seems to blind counter very consistently vs everyone, and move directly to counter armies. Another examples is against Weekly in the final when weekly sends to 12 oclock and he's already on his way to intercept. edit: also he do 2gateway vs terror both games, but 1 game he leaves goon on ramp when terror opened differently however he didn't scout so he wouldn't know its a different opening. against cryoc on FS he did a completely different opening which was a completely greedy blind counter to what cryoc was doing, no ob ever entered his base. a dt in a shuttle entered @ like 8th minute. I don't agree, first game in beltway he doesn't know anything but enemy's base. so his 4goons were directly attacking , but in the second game he saw bunker before his goon leave. with bunker , there's two choice of terran <barracks double or /Vulture Double ) so he left 1goon to protect from possibilities of vulture coming. | ||
Letherebelight
Korea (South)29 Posts
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Letherebelight
Korea (South)29 Posts
He raped sziky who is the top of non-korean. you guys still don't know? he is out of your level | ||
Letherebelight
Korea (South)29 Posts
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BulgarianToss
Bulgaria437 Posts
First, I don't think you are korean since your english is too good for a korean starcraft player. Second, why did you register in TL just to defend Neagle ? You obviously follow TL for a while now since you read Draw's post here in this thread. I am very curious, are you a friend of Neagle ? What is your iccup ID ? PS Oh i saw you're registered Thursday, 31st of January 2013 in your profile. Even more curious that these are your first posts :D! | ||
uT)WhistleR
Sweden95 Posts
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Cele
Germany4012 Posts
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
On June 12 2013 01:40 Letherebelight wrote: it's just you guys don't have game sense. That's why you always lose to amateur korean players. Korean class is different. Imagine. How can level of korean be same with you guys? korean train with each other, and you just play on iccup where half of users are under the level of 10 years old of korean child actually no, he did goon scout in both and had different reactions to both. I beat neagle pvp last season, and if you check his ladder history ON iccup he is not that good http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/Neagle.html So how does a not very good player win defiler tour? Also, if you watch more of his games you will see patterns of blind counters. He won sziky once but that is one event, with a very unusual build. I also find it funny that you mention we're losing to korean amateurs, most of them have been caught hacking. Cindy beat me 2-1 he was aka Sunday and banned from iccup. I wonder if he can win without hack? I bet not. | ||
skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
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uT)WhistleR
Sweden95 Posts
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
On June 12 2013 05:31 uT)WhistleR wrote: would a protoss stack 2 observers and send them into terran main over 2 turrets when terran goes m&m without even scouting that there was turrets? dont know much about pvt but that in itself seems very suspicious to me +1 | ||
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6324 Posts
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ninazerg
United States7290 Posts
On June 12 2013 01:45 Letherebelight wrote: More interesting fact is, Neagle and Anfod who overwhelm the defiler tour is merely a dust of amateurs between korean. Hi Neagle. | ||
andreyyisbestandrey
154 Posts
On June 12 2013 05:46 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: i not watched any of the reps. but i guess is standard to have turrets in terran base.no ? ;; I guess he means that it is suspicious that Neagle would send two observers to ensure he "scouts" in a game where Terran does such an unusual build. I am watching this game right now (it is the DT #59 Final Neagle vs. Boss.Weekly) and I am not so convinced it was a hacker move. His observers did live just long enough to luckily see an additional barracks being built above the factory. A true hacker who wants to appear to not hack would have sent two observers to a vulnerable place like the very back of the Terran base. Actually, the real reason why I don't suspect that Neagle hacks comes just after this observer move, when the Terran was moving out with his tanks. He left all of his tanks very vulnerable. It was 11 dragoons against 6 unsieged tanks at 9:20 in the game. A hacker would have destroyed the tanks and ended the game there. I understand sometimes when you play a hacker, you can "feel" you are playing a hacker. So I look for any more hacker moves. At the ~21:00 minute mark the Terran moves out to P's ninja 12 base, toss had no observer in front of Terran to see move out but he did have zealot patrolling that did see. Did Neagle reposition his army and react to the move out a little too quickly? Not having a rewind function makes watching a specific move several times less than ideal, but necessary if one is to take such accusations seriously. It is moves like these I would find suspicious, but most any player repositions their army all the time, based only on a sense in anticipation for what the Terran is doing, without necessarily seeing with an observer. Whistler, great game 1 vs Neagle! "There is a hatchery in his natural and that isn't normal." Much less involved than the Weekly finals game. No sign of hacking. Whistler game 2: ~3:00 minute mark he did not react as a hacker would to the run by. A good hacker would have sooner reacted to the runby by seeing it on the minimap. I'm watching Neagle's (lack of) army movement and he's just not abusing like a maphacker woud. A true hacker makes consistent beneficial army trades with storms, dealing damage with goons, and moving back. With full map vision you can hit zerg army from all sides, and he's just not using to his advantage. This game comes down to Whistler moving his whole army to fight the 4 zealot drop in his main, while Neagle masses off 8 gateways and rolls Whistler's 3rd, ending the game. None of this I think can definitely say he hacks or not. A map hack may give the user the confidence to do something like this strategy though. As a counter to that, I believe Whistler was behind throughout the game in unit count after the early game, and Neagle knew it is a safe bet to just mass off 8 gateways. Game 3 Neagle takes out Whistler's 3rd with 4 gate zealot. Would a hack help Neagle determine muta timing and whether 4 gate zealot is a good idea? Yes. Does his use of this strategy mean he hacks? Not necessarily. Watching the Terror games. Don't see any sign of hack. TL, DR: lol Iraq appears to be falling deeper into sectarian conflict as a wave of bombings and shootings killed more than 70 people Monday. Nearly 2,000 people have died since April amid rising tensions between Iraq’s Shiite-led government and Sunni militants. | ||
Letherebelight
Korea (South)29 Posts
On June 12 2013 04:11 dRaW wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2013 01:40 Letherebelight wrote: it's just you guys don't have game sense. That's why you always lose to amateur korean players. Korean class is different. Imagine. How can level of korean be same with you guys? korean train with each other, and you just play on iccup where half of users are under the level of 10 years old of korean child actually no, he did goon scout in both and had different reactions to both. I beat neagle pvp last season, and if you check his ladder history ON iccup he is not that good http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/Neagle.html So how does a not very good player win defiler tour? Also, if you watch more of his games you will see patterns of blind counters. He won sziky once but that is one event, with a very unusual build. I also find it funny that you mention we're losing to korean amateurs, most of them have been caught hacking. Cindy beat me 2-1 he was aka Sunday and banned from iccup. I wonder if he can win without hack? I bet not. I know Neagle as a clan member, and I know he is competent enough to beat all foreign starcraft users. His fish ladder is much higher of sziky's. Maybe neagle is not playing iccup seriously, he play all races as you see in tour 57. He likes to play 5drones and new builds in ladder system. Cause those are not the serious games. You see He even played zerg and terran in Defiler tour final lol. | ||
Letherebelight
Korea (South)29 Posts
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
On June 12 2013 11:14 andreyyisbestandrey wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2013 05:46 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: i not watched any of the reps. but i guess is standard to have turrets in terran base.no ? ;; I guess he means that it is suspicious that Neagle would send two observers to ensure he "scouts" in a game where Terran does such an unusual build. I am watching this game right now (it is the DT #59 Final Neagle vs. Boss.Weekly) and I am not so convinced it was a hacker move. His observers did live just long enough to luckily see an additional barracks being built above the factory. A true hacker who wants to appear to not hack would have sent two observers to a vulnerable place like the very back of the Terran base. Actually, the real reason why I don't suspect that Neagle hacks comes just after this observer move, when the Terran was moving out with his tanks. He left all of his tanks very vulnerable. It was 11 dragoons against 6 unsieged tanks at 9:20 in the game. A hacker would have destroyed the tanks and ended the game there. I understand sometimes when you play a hacker, you can "feel" you are playing a hacker. So I look for any more hacker moves. At the ~21:00 minute mark the Terran moves out to P's ninja 12 base, toss had no observer in front of Terran to see move out but he did have zealot patrolling that did see. Did Neagle reposition his army and react to the move out a little too quickly? Not having a rewind function makes watching a specific move several times less than ideal, but necessary if one is to take such accusations seriously. It is moves like these I would find suspicious, but most any player repositions their army all the time, based only on a sense in anticipation for what the Terran is doing, without necessarily seeing with an observer. Whistler, great game 1 vs Neagle! "There is a hatchery in his natural and that isn't normal." Much less involved than the Weekly finals game. No sign of hacking. Whistler game 2: ~3:00 minute mark he did not react as a hacker would to the run by. A good hacker would have sooner reacted to the runby by seeing it on the minimap. I'm watching Neagle's (lack of) army movement and he's just not abusing like a maphacker woud. A true hacker makes consistent beneficial army trades with storms, dealing damage with goons, and moving back. With full map vision you can hit zerg army from all sides, and he's just not using to his advantage. This game comes down to Whistler moving his whole army to fight the 4 zealot drop in his main, while Neagle masses off 8 gateways and rolls Whistler's 3rd, ending the game. None of this I think can definitely say he hacks or not. A map hack may give the user the confidence to do something like this strategy though. As a counter to that, I believe Whistler was behind throughout the game in unit count after the early game, and Neagle knew it is a safe bet to just mass off 8 gateways. Game 3 Neagle takes out Whistler's 3rd with 4 gate zealot. Would a hack help Neagle determine muta timing and whether 4 gate zealot is a good idea? Yes. Does his use of this strategy mean he hacks? Not necessarily. Watching the Terror games. Don't see any sign of hack. TL, DR: lol Iraq appears to be falling deeper into sectarian conflict as a wave of bombings and shootings killed more than 70 people Monday. Nearly 2,000 people have died since April amid rising tensions between Iraq’s Shiite-led government and Sunni militants. it's mostly his inconsistent moves followed by his unusual scout timing. i.e he scouted the T in last game @ that time to see the move to 12, in other games he doesnt send random zealots to scout army movement though. (unless it's convenient). I understand lightkoreankid is saying that hes good , but generally good players do consistent sneaky things to gain intel at a higher level and determine follow-ups. Neagle's mechanics are not as great as his "fish level" would correlate to nor does he do any of these scouting methods consistently. In every game he wins, he is doing an optimal build to the opponent and using a timing to gain a clear advantage furthering his lead. In any game he loses, it's just because his mechanics are not that good and gets outmacroed. | ||
andreyyisbestandrey
154 Posts
On June 12 2013 12:53 dRaW wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2013 11:14 andreyyisbestandrey wrote: On June 12 2013 05:46 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: i not watched any of the reps. but i guess is standard to have turrets in terran base.no ? ;; I guess he means that it is suspicious that Neagle would send two observers to ensure he "scouts" in a game where Terran does such an unusual build. I am watching this game right now (it is the DT #59 Final Neagle vs. Boss.Weekly) and I am not so convinced it was a hacker move. His observers did live just long enough to luckily see an additional barracks being built above the factory. A true hacker who wants to appear to not hack would have sent two observers to a vulnerable place like the very back of the Terran base. Actually, the real reason why I don't suspect that Neagle hacks comes just after this observer move, when the Terran was moving out with his tanks. He left all of his tanks very vulnerable. It was 11 dragoons against 6 unsieged tanks at 9:20 in the game. A hacker would have destroyed the tanks and ended the game there. I understand sometimes when you play a hacker, you can "feel" you are playing a hacker. So I look for any more hacker moves. At the ~21:00 minute mark the Terran moves out to P's ninja 12 base, toss had no observer in front of Terran to see move out but he did have zealot patrolling that did see. Did Neagle reposition his army and react to the move out a little too quickly? Not having a rewind function makes watching a specific move several times less than ideal, but necessary if one is to take such accusations seriously. It is moves like these I would find suspicious, but most any player repositions their army all the time, based only on a sense in anticipation for what the Terran is doing, without necessarily seeing with an observer. Whistler, great game 1 vs Neagle! "There is a hatchery in his natural and that isn't normal." Much less involved than the Weekly finals game. No sign of hacking. Whistler game 2: ~3:00 minute mark he did not react as a hacker would to the run by. A good hacker would have sooner reacted to the runby by seeing it on the minimap. I'm watching Neagle's (lack of) army movement and he's just not abusing like a maphacker woud. A true hacker makes consistent beneficial army trades with storms, dealing damage with goons, and moving back. With full map vision you can hit zerg army from all sides, and he's just not using to his advantage. This game comes down to Whistler moving his whole army to fight the 4 zealot drop in his main, while Neagle masses off 8 gateways and rolls Whistler's 3rd, ending the game. None of this I think can definitely say he hacks or not. A map hack may give the user the confidence to do something like this strategy though. As a counter to that, I believe Whistler was behind throughout the game in unit count after the early game, and Neagle knew it is a safe bet to just mass off 8 gateways. Game 3 Neagle takes out Whistler's 3rd with 4 gate zealot. Would a hack help Neagle determine muta timing and whether 4 gate zealot is a good idea? Yes. Does his use of this strategy mean he hacks? Not necessarily. Watching the Terror games. Don't see any sign of hack. TL, DR: lol Iraq appears to be falling deeper into sectarian conflict as a wave of bombings and shootings killed more than 70 people Monday. Nearly 2,000 people have died since April amid rising tensions between Iraq’s Shiite-led government and Sunni militants. it's mostly his inconsistent moves followed by his unusual scout timing. i.e he scouted the T in last game @ that time to see the move to 12, in other games he doesnt send random zealots to scout army movement though. (unless it's convenient). I understand lightkoreankid is saying that hes good , but generally good players do consistent sneaky things to gain intel at a higher level and determine follow-ups. Neagle's mechanics are not as great as his "fish level" would correlate to nor does he do any of these scouting methods consistently. In every game he wins, he is doing an optimal build to the opponent and using a timing to gain a clear advantage furthering his lead. In any game he loses, it's just because his mechanics are not that good and gets outmacroed. Something to condider, but to that extent can be argued that Koreans are known to be dynamic players and fluidly play the situation by ear. In the game he lost to Whistler, he had almost perfect micro and macro mechanics, he just did not anticipate a forward hatchery move. The other games against Whistler I can only say that choosing such builds - 4 gate mass and 8 gate mass are not indicative in themselves that he hacks. I may not have caught suspious activity but would love to see an analysis of ehether or not what did were viable, safe plays based on what he knew. But even if they were not, that still does not prive one way or the other. Proving something based on moves from a replay is difficult. You do not know what the player is thinking. Especially so with people as weird and different as Koreans. Koreans think about this game in their Korean terms | ||
andreyyisbestandrey
154 Posts
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Letherebelight
Korea (South)29 Posts
On June 12 2013 05:31 uT)WhistleR wrote: would a protoss stack 2 observers and send them into terran main over 2 turrets when terran goes m&m without even scouting that there was turrets? dont know much about pvt but that in itself seems very suspicious to me Hey Whistler I saw replay between you and neagle , and you insists he's cheesing. regardless of what he do, basic competence in replay between you and neagle seems huge. At the second game you and neagle's unit count was almost double ... even he did not get huge advantage. and i think neagle was confident with 8gate you'll be over, and even we assume 8gate did not work, you were still losing that he can just get third base, and you cannot disturb it cause you were just lair tech, not that good upgrade,, not much drone... You cannot, and should not argue on neagle's play. He's much out of your level it seems | ||
Letherebelight
Korea (South)29 Posts
On June 12 2013 14:22 andreyyisbestandrey wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2013 12:53 dRaW wrote: On June 12 2013 11:14 andreyyisbestandrey wrote: On June 12 2013 05:46 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: i not watched any of the reps. but i guess is standard to have turrets in terran base.no ? ;; I guess he means that it is suspicious that Neagle would send two observers to ensure he "scouts" in a game where Terran does such an unusual build. I am watching this game right now (it is the DT #59 Final Neagle vs. Boss.Weekly) and I am not so convinced it was a hacker move. His observers did live just long enough to luckily see an additional barracks being built above the factory. A true hacker who wants to appear to not hack would have sent two observers to a vulnerable place like the very back of the Terran base. Actually, the real reason why I don't suspect that Neagle hacks comes just after this observer move, when the Terran was moving out with his tanks. He left all of his tanks very vulnerable. It was 11 dragoons against 6 unsieged tanks at 9:20 in the game. A hacker would have destroyed the tanks and ended the game there. I understand sometimes when you play a hacker, you can "feel" you are playing a hacker. So I look for any more hacker moves. At the ~21:00 minute mark the Terran moves out to P's ninja 12 base, toss had no observer in front of Terran to see move out but he did have zealot patrolling that did see. Did Neagle reposition his army and react to the move out a little too quickly? Not having a rewind function makes watching a specific move several times less than ideal, but necessary if one is to take such accusations seriously. It is moves like these I would find suspicious, but most any player repositions their army all the time, based only on a sense in anticipation for what the Terran is doing, without necessarily seeing with an observer. Whistler, great game 1 vs Neagle! "There is a hatchery in his natural and that isn't normal." Much less involved than the Weekly finals game. No sign of hacking. Whistler game 2: ~3:00 minute mark he did not react as a hacker would to the run by. A good hacker would have sooner reacted to the runby by seeing it on the minimap. I'm watching Neagle's (lack of) army movement and he's just not abusing like a maphacker woud. A true hacker makes consistent beneficial army trades with storms, dealing damage with goons, and moving back. With full map vision you can hit zerg army from all sides, and he's just not using to his advantage. This game comes down to Whistler moving his whole army to fight the 4 zealot drop in his main, while Neagle masses off 8 gateways and rolls Whistler's 3rd, ending the game. None of this I think can definitely say he hacks or not. A map hack may give the user the confidence to do something like this strategy though. As a counter to that, I believe Whistler was behind throughout the game in unit count after the early game, and Neagle knew it is a safe bet to just mass off 8 gateways. Game 3 Neagle takes out Whistler's 3rd with 4 gate zealot. Would a hack help Neagle determine muta timing and whether 4 gate zealot is a good idea? Yes. Does his use of this strategy mean he hacks? Not necessarily. Watching the Terror games. Don't see any sign of hack. TL, DR: lol Iraq appears to be falling deeper into sectarian conflict as a wave of bombings and shootings killed more than 70 people Monday. Nearly 2,000 people have died since April amid rising tensions between Iraq’s Shiite-led government and Sunni militants. it's mostly his inconsistent moves followed by his unusual scout timing. i.e he scouted the T in last game @ that time to see the move to 12, in other games he doesnt send random zealots to scout army movement though. (unless it's convenient). I understand lightkoreankid is saying that hes good , but generally good players do consistent sneaky things to gain intel at a higher level and determine follow-ups. Neagle's mechanics are not as great as his "fish level" would correlate to nor does he do any of these scouting methods consistently. In every game he wins, he is doing an optimal build to the opponent and using a timing to gain a clear advantage furthering his lead. In any game he loses, it's just because his mechanics are not that good and gets outmacroed. Something to condider, but to that extent can be argued that Koreans are known to be dynamic players and fluidly play the situation by ear. In the game he lost to Whistler, he had almost perfect micro and macro mechanics, he just did not anticipate a forward hatchery move. The other games against Whistler I can only say that choosing such builds - 4 gate mass and 8 gate mass are not indicative in themselves that he hacks. I may not have caught suspious activity but would love to see an analysis of ehether or not what did were viable, safe plays based on what he knew. But even if they were not, that still does not prive one way or the other. Proving something based on moves from a replay is difficult. You do not know what the player is thinking. Especially so with people as weird and different as Koreans. Koreans think about this game in their Korean terms I agree on your thinking, andrey. They cannot understand korean playing. In neagle and whistler's 2nd game, whistler seems to be much like map hacker that he noticed 11`o clock zealot standing without any scout. | ||
Mirnaia
Hungary34 Posts
PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE WATCHING I have kept myself away deliberately from this thread in order not to get spoiled. Imagine my surprise when coming here and reading through it, I feel like a goddamn noob idiot and being the daft fuck I am I haven't grown suspicious during the commentary (I'm a beginner and had many many other things I felt I needed to watch for in the games). I'm sorry. I have linked to this thread as well as Technics' one in the youtube description of every game. I would like to apologise to Whistler here, in one of the games I made a rant at him (I believed he was complaining about lag). Have not yet had time to rewatch the games and I'm at work now (whoops) - so all I have to base any judgement on are the posts in the two threads. That said, lettherebelight's arguments would be a lot less irritating were he not so negative and condescending and would actually, well, argue. His demeanor actually makes him more suspicious. The rest of the discussion is amazingly civil and no-nonsense imho, business is awesome as usual on TL. + Show Spoiler [VODS] + YouTube playlist EDIT: Typos and le grammar. | ||
Leguar
Russian Federation9 Posts
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
Game 1 vs Moro: blind cross position greedy build, way too early blind counter against moro's lings, perfect defences against mutas (moro makes lots of mutas) Game 2 vs Moro: heavy blind counter against moro's strategy, no scouting, lollish 1st zealot moving timing, strange way to move corsairs. Game 1 vs Zaraki: scout from the first time into perfect defences against mutas (zaraki makes only mutas) Game 2 vs Zaraki: Blind counter with super early +1 of sairs when zaraki is making early 2nd gas on natural, highly suspicious movements with the army. Game1 vs Whistler: scout from first time, chobo play in a non-standard situation Game 2 vs Whistler: blind cross position greedy build, super suspicious scouting and probe pulling, blind 0 defences against mutas (opponent makes no mutas), super suspicious fast 4 zealot drop - moves so freely on the map like he knows there are no scourges Game 3 vs Whistler: blind cross position greedy build into fast win Game 1 vs Justice: scout from first try Game 2 vs Justice: Scout from the first time + super early blind forge vs 4pool Game 1 vs Cryoc: Blind massarmy counter to cryoc's doings, super suspicious shuttle/reaver movement exactly when cryoc moves out, suspicious army movements throughout the whole game, complaining about map being unfair... (lol) Game 2 vs Cryoc: No scout, absolutely blind cross position super greedy build into more timed greedy decisions Game 3 vs Cryoc: No scout into 'finding' his opponent following an scv with 1st goon. This is a brief of analysis of the 15 players from the DT #59. Notice the patterns? I'm sure there's a lot more, but when he is cross positions he goes for blind counters or blind greedy counters. When his opponent is next to him he scouts from the first time in prevailing amount of cases. Neagle clearly maphacks. The quesiton is why are letherebelight and dredredre all of a sudden so insistent on defending him? What do you know about him? Where do you know him from and how are you guys close? | ||
Letherebelight
Korea (South)29 Posts
We should follow 'Guilty Until Proven Innocent'. Cause there's no clear proof but only belief. Flash maybe blamed as map hacker if he participated this tour lol anonymously. "oh how did he know that? map hacker!" "He always do no barracks double command not whatching zerg's build!" | ||
Letherebelight
Korea (South)29 Posts
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BulgarianToss
Bulgaria437 Posts
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Sinedd
Poland7052 Posts
that would be actually quite hilarious imo | ||
LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
Also, I doubt Flash plays in Defiler Tournaments. Unless skzlime says otherwise. | ||
fold
Australia665 Posts
I have no idea if he cheats or not but that shuttle was really suspicious. Also whistler wasn't going to win that anyway with no scouting...a pair of scourge would have taken care of the shuttle and also let him see the 8 gate. Game 2 against Justice, I think it's really obvious to make an early forge. He doesn't even play Z so you can assume he's going to cheese. It's smart play. Also have to take into account maybe he just knows how those people play like so he adjusts his builds. | ||
Letherebelight
Korea (South)29 Posts
On June 12 2013 20:36 fold wrote: I didn't see any blind probe pulling in game 2 vs whistler, he clearly saw the zerglings and that one probe blocking gave him enough time to react quickly. I think his PvZ builds are just cheesy and throw the zergs off. Maybe some weird decisions like why did he decide to make 2 cannons then cancel 1 off against whistler when he didn't see anything but he could also just be lucky with the builds. I have no idea if he cheats or not but that shuttle was really suspicious. Also whistler wasn't going to win that anyway with no scouting...a pair of scourge would have taken care of the shuttle and also let him see the 8 gate. Game 2 against Justice, I think it's really obvious to make an early forge. He doesn't even play Z so you can assume he's going to cheese. It's smart play. Also have to take into account maybe he just knows how those people play like so he adjusts his builds. That's what i wanted to say. Build by Build, Person by Person. These guys too naive. | ||
LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On June 12 2013 20:36 fold wrote: I didn't see any blind probe pulling in game 2 vs whistler, he clearly saw the zerglings and that one probe blocking gave him enough time to react quickly. I think his PvZ builds are just cheesy and throw the zergs off. Maybe some weird decisions like why did he decide to make 2 cannons then cancel 1 off against whistler when he didn't see anything but he could also just be lucky with the builds. I have no idea if he cheats or not but that shuttle was really suspicious. Also whistler wasn't going to win that anyway with no scouting...a pair of scourge would have taken care of the shuttle and also let him see the 8 gate. Game 2 against Justice, I think it's really obvious to make an early forge. He doesn't even play Z so you can assume he's going to cheese. It's smart play. Also have to take into account maybe he just knows how those people play like so he adjusts his builds. please see the thread (Under the Radar: Neagle), it even has pictures. also i analyzed 15 out of 15 games thoroughly... | ||
Letherebelight
Korea (South)29 Posts
On June 12 2013 20:43 LRM)TechnicS wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2013 20:36 fold wrote: I didn't see any blind probe pulling in game 2 vs whistler, he clearly saw the zerglings and that one probe blocking gave him enough time to react quickly. I think his PvZ builds are just cheesy and throw the zergs off. Maybe some weird decisions like why did he decide to make 2 cannons then cancel 1 off against whistler when he didn't see anything but he could also just be lucky with the builds. I have no idea if he cheats or not but that shuttle was really suspicious. Also whistler wasn't going to win that anyway with no scouting...a pair of scourge would have taken care of the shuttle and also let him see the 8 gate. Game 2 against Justice, I think it's really obvious to make an early forge. He doesn't even play Z so you can assume he's going to cheese. It's smart play. Also have to take into account maybe he just knows how those people play like so he adjusts his builds. please see the thread, it even has pictures. also i analyzed 15 out of 15 games thoroughly... Please read carefully. He's talking about your analisis exactly | ||
LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On June 12 2013 20:46 Letherebelight wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2013 20:43 LRM)TechnicS wrote: On June 12 2013 20:36 fold wrote: I didn't see any blind probe pulling in game 2 vs whistler, he clearly saw the zerglings and that one probe blocking gave him enough time to react quickly. I think his PvZ builds are just cheesy and throw the zergs off. Maybe some weird decisions like why did he decide to make 2 cannons then cancel 1 off against whistler when he didn't see anything but he could also just be lucky with the builds. I have no idea if he cheats or not but that shuttle was really suspicious. Also whistler wasn't going to win that anyway with no scouting...a pair of scourge would have taken care of the shuttle and also let him see the 8 gate. Game 2 against Justice, I think it's really obvious to make an early forge. He doesn't even play Z so you can assume he's going to cheese. It's smart play. Also have to take into account maybe he just knows how those people play like so he adjusts his builds. please see the thread, it even has pictures. also i analyzed 15 out of 15 games thoroughly... Please read carefully. He's talking about your analisis exactly Please answer the question honestly - "The quesiton is why are you all of a sudden so insistent on defending him? What do you know about him? Where do you know him from and how are you guys close?" edit: up until this question letherebelight was answering almost instantly here ^^ | ||
Letherebelight
Korea (South)29 Posts
On June 12 2013 20:50 LRM)TechnicS wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2013 20:46 Letherebelight wrote: On June 12 2013 20:43 LRM)TechnicS wrote: On June 12 2013 20:36 fold wrote: I didn't see any blind probe pulling in game 2 vs whistler, he clearly saw the zerglings and that one probe blocking gave him enough time to react quickly. I think his PvZ builds are just cheesy and throw the zergs off. Maybe some weird decisions like why did he decide to make 2 cannons then cancel 1 off against whistler when he didn't see anything but he could also just be lucky with the builds. I have no idea if he cheats or not but that shuttle was really suspicious. Also whistler wasn't going to win that anyway with no scouting...a pair of scourge would have taken care of the shuttle and also let him see the 8 gate. Game 2 against Justice, I think it's really obvious to make an early forge. He doesn't even play Z so you can assume he's going to cheese. It's smart play. Also have to take into account maybe he just knows how those people play like so he adjusts his builds. please see the thread, it even has pictures. also i analyzed 15 out of 15 games thoroughly... Please read carefully. He's talking about your analisis exactly Please answer the question honestly - "The quesiton is why are you all of a sudden so insistent on defending him? What do you know about him? Where do you know him from and how are you guys close?" edit: up until this question letherebelight was answering almost instantly here ^^ I was his clan member and I know his ability. He is not the one who lose to non-korean, absolutely. | ||
LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
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Letherebelight
Korea (South)29 Posts
On June 12 2013 21:36 LRM)TechnicS wrote: Really? Which clan? What was his ID and your ID? sorry but it's related with privacy that korean users can know,but what i can tell you is it's one of famous clans, and he was verified player. sorry for not to tell in that he is now at situaltion with some hack issue right? and neagle is his temporary ID. | ||
LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On June 12 2013 21:45 Letherebelight wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2013 21:36 LRM)TechnicS wrote: Really? Which clan? What was his ID and your ID? sorry but it's related with privacy that korean users can know,but what i can tell you is it's one of famous clans, and he was verified player. sorry for not to tell in that he is now at situaltion with some hack issue right? and neagle is his temporary ID. That's a very suspicious answer | ||
LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
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Letherebelight
Korea (South)29 Posts
On June 12 2013 21:49 LRM)TechnicS wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2013 21:45 Letherebelight wrote: On June 12 2013 21:36 LRM)TechnicS wrote: Really? Which clan? What was his ID and your ID? sorry but it's related with privacy that korean users can know,but what i can tell you is it's one of famous clans, and he was verified player. sorry for not to tell in that he is now at situaltion with some hack issue right? and neagle is his temporary ID. That's a very suspicious answer He was at several clans including By, Kal, Dreamteam... I cannot contact him unless he join iccup with neagle, he is not playing fish after early of season and he told in the channel he's just playing tour for fun and to learn english talking with others ,like he said in some replay. Why I advocate him is that tour's replay was similar to what he originally plays. He like 2base fast arbiter vs t, 11nexus vs zerg, 21probe two gate to kill FD ;; He did same as in his clan league. | ||
Letherebelight
Korea (South)29 Posts
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On June 12 2013 21:57 Letherebelight wrote: He's korean, I'm korean, I know him via online ^.^~ just quoting | ||
LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On June 12 2013 21:56 Letherebelight wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2013 21:49 LRM)TechnicS wrote: On June 12 2013 21:45 Letherebelight wrote: On June 12 2013 21:36 LRM)TechnicS wrote: Really? Which clan? What was his ID and your ID? sorry but it's related with privacy that korean users can know,but what i can tell you is it's one of famous clans, and he was verified player. sorry for not to tell in that he is now at situaltion with some hack issue right? and neagle is his temporary ID. That's a very suspicious answer He was at several clans including By, Kal, Dreamteam... I cannot contact him unless he join iccup with neagle, he is not playing fish after early of season and he told in the channel he's just playing tour for fun and to learn english talking with others ,like he said in some replay. Why I advocate him is that tour's replay was similar to what he originally plays. He like 2base fast arbiter vs t, 11nexus vs zerg, 21probe two gate to kill FD ;; He did same as in his clan league. what is his Dream.T) aka? | ||
Letherebelight
Korea (South)29 Posts
i'm out not worth doing this for him | ||
LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
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BulgarianToss
Bulgaria437 Posts
Ahoj bratře, jak se máš, proč se vám líbí mapy tolik ? | ||
LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
Thanks to TL and iCCup for giving out their support on the matter in sheding light that letherebelight = Neagle. | ||
uT)WhistleR
Sweden95 Posts
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Mewka
Poland1458 Posts
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Sinedd
Poland7052 Posts
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SADguy
Romania69 Posts
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pebble444
Italy2477 Posts
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uT)WhistleR
Sweden95 Posts
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iG.Arcneon
Finland333 Posts
I also cant understand how he could maphack, or he just didnt vs me then atleast... If you look at the finals of previous DT where i played neagle, he got totaly massacred by dt's with him playing TvP on LT so I reaaally doubt there's any maphack involved | ||
uT)WhistleR
Sweden95 Posts
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
On June 14 2013 16:07 iG.Arcneon wrote: Wasnt lettherebelight alfio? I also cant understand how he could maphack, or he just didnt vs me then atleast... If you look at the finals of previous DT where i played neagle, he got totaly massacred by dt's with him playing TvP on LT so I reaaally doubt there's any maphack involved this is why it's suspicious that he all of a sudden has amazing game sense and blind counters build | ||
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