|
On October 22 2006 14:17 Wasabi wrote: [removed quote within quote]
What? Nada is higher on the list than rA, and JJu has barely more points than Nada.
I knew that... but as I took tokes... of the marijuana smoke... mind choke, mind choke.
|
On October 23 2006 09:57 MaGic~PhiL wrote: Kaolla you are kinda stupid saying draco can only cheese and nothing else. Did you watch the replays ? Draco AND Testie were so close to win vs oov / midas. Draco played very well, imho and saying he can just cheese is something really pathetic. He did macro very good, too and his carrier micro was pretty good , except vs oov on gaia, where he kinda lost it before fucking up with the carriers. One more question : If Nal_rA plays the strategy on paranoid android everyone goes nuts and says : great strategy , great execution. If Draco does it, you say his cheese is good, but with everything else : he sucks. You literally said it that way. Did you see how stressed oov was in all 3 games ? Making small errors and having had to play at least up to the limit usual for him ?
And Koalla, draco's macro is very , very good, too. The best for foreigners actually. It's just, that after a certain time TvP and with the critical mass for Terra the toss ground army always loses and u simply are behing then, even having the best macro. Additionally draco went carriers in many of his PvT games, so you cant really say : Oh he has so few units, his macro is bad.
I really wonder if you a) dont like Draco at all or b) have no clue about the game. Actually i briefly believe both a) and b) are the matter. Looking at my country you will realize im not polish. No i'm not a polish draco fanboy. No i'm not saying Draco is at the level of the best pro gamers. All i am saying is, that Draco's wcg performance was simply GREAT and that he CAN almost keep up with gamers like oov/midas ( same with testie btw ). He developed quite well compared to some others and it annoys me, that you wherever you post write stupid nonsense about draco. If you are talking by top5 pro gaming standards, then MAYBE you might be a bit right with your statements. If you talk about the top 100 pro gamers in relation to dracos performance and skill your are wrong. And if you compare it all with foreigners you are >SO< wrong. Did you watch all the draco replays ? I did and i must say i very rarely saw such a good performance of a foreigner vs pros, really.
And now feel free to tell us about draco's lack of macro, skill, confidence, micro , again.
PhiL
last year WCG could have been won by a foreigner i think most of us agree on that... after Xellos lost to the only player he could lose to in a bo3 (probably) it was pretty much a lucky korean win... Well not that lucky but it was 60/40 or so... of course draco could have won that WCG if he had the skill he has today and he would have had a decent chance... but vs oov he just got such big advantage in the early game in 2 games, and he still manages to lose 1... the win vs midas he games uberbig advantage too so bad that most good bw players would probably put the replay speed at 8x after he killed the CC the 2nd time (well it was cancelled but still the loss of potential eco was huge)... So yea he still struggles to take it in...thats not impressive... the games vs draco were not impressive either to say the least. The only thing that was impressive was the strategies, but i think most other top tier foreigners could have done that too (Testie, Mondi, few others)... but still losing that game 3 vs oov well thats fucking up a huge advantage and well carriers i am not so impressed by carrier play sorry but thats just how i feel about it... and i think oov looked pretty ok most of the game...Without cheesy builds I just think the foreigners were still as far away as they always were... great DT drop by testie in game 2, but in game 1 and 3 he was just outplayed imho... Game 3 i personally think testie made a mistake going mass ground mostly while terran was just camping up the middle and there was not much testie could do... Of course its easy to say that now, but I dont think the skill gap is closing... You can praise draco (or Testie) into heaven now but they were just alot less than their opponents imho... All in all they played pretty damn good for a foreigner.. but i think they were alot less than their korean opponents and if it would have been bo11 instead of bo3 the difference would have been higher than what it seems now (2-1 sounds close 6-2 doesnt sound so close and i would expect a 6-2 sooner than a 6-5)...
|
seriously who cares.. we have different opinions for most of us Draco's play ROCKED for kaolla it didnt... who cares seriously
|
On October 23 2006 08:27 haduken wrote: i don't think he lacks it. it just pales when playing against oov. who cares... koreans may suck at scouting but they see win the fucking thing. and they always win it. who gives a crap about bad scouting when he roll over people. Yes, he does lack it. I am remembering androide's last year's games, especially vs Silent_Control. He might've not been the king of strategy, but his execution was superb. However Dracos career has just started, I am sure he'll get there.
|
On October 23 2006 14:19 Kaolla wrote: [removed quote within quote]
last year WCG could have been won by a foreigner i think most of us agree on that... after Xellos lost to the only player he could lose to in a bo3 (probably) it was pretty much a lucky korean win... Well not that lucky but it was 60/40 or so... of course draco could have won that WCG if he had the skill he has today and he would have had a decent chance... but vs oov he just got such big advantage in the early game in 2 games, and he still manages to lose 1... the win vs midas he games uberbig advantage too so bad that most good bw players would probably put the replay speed at 8x after he killed the CC the 2nd time (well it was cancelled but still the loss of potential eco was huge)... So yea he still struggles to take it in...thats not impressive... the games vs draco were not impressive either to say the least. The only thing that was impressive was the strategies, but i think most other top tier foreigners could have done that too (Testie, Mondi, few others)... but still losing that game 3 vs oov well thats fucking up a huge advantage and well carriers i am not so impressed by carrier play sorry but thats just how i feel about it... and i think oov looked pretty ok most of the game...Without cheesy builds I just think the foreigners were still as far away as they always were... great DT drop by testie in game 2, but in game 1 and 3 he was just outplayed imho... Game 3 i personally think testie made a mistake going mass ground mostly while terran was just camping up the middle and there was not much testie could do... Of course its easy to say that now, but I dont think the skill gap is closing... You can praise draco (or Testie) into heaven now but they were just alot less than their opponents imho... All in all they played pretty damn good for a foreigner.. but i think they were alot less than their korean opponents and if it would have been bo11 instead of bo3 the difference would have been higher than what it seems now (2-1 sounds close 6-2 doesnt sound so close and i would expect a 6-2 sooner than a 6-5)...
I really think you need to rewatch those games.
|
On October 23 2006 15:20 fusionsdf wrote: [removed quote within quote]
I really think you need to rewatch those games.
strong reasoning... almost pulled me over the line... but not quite yet..
|
we all know draco is good for foreign standards, but he really does get way too much credit++++ its all draco this, draco that.. imo he's overrated.. how come testie only gets a 'gj' and draco gets all the 'WOW HE IS SO FUCKING GOOD.. DAMN' ? testie performed just as well as draco did.. and we all know an in shape mondragon or ret for example would be able to do the same..
the games both draco and testie won a game off those progamers was when they had a really good opening which made them able to get a big advantage over their opponents. They still struggled after, while they had those games in their pockets. Ofcourse, they are progamers, but still.. it only shows their abilities arent as great as alot of you guys want them to be.. stop pretending they can actually match up with them, because they can't eventhough they did really well and some respect should certainly be shown.
I don't think the Koreans were really that focussed, as said before their scouting was really bad. I don't know if this is because they didn't really feel they needed to, or if it's because they aren't used to do or die strats that alot of foreigners pull off.. but somehow in korean proleagues i dont see progamers lose to this kind of cheesery often at all :x July didn't seem focussed at all in the final games vs oov either btw.. In oov's game vs draco, a ton of scvs (13 or so?)were just standing there doing nothing too for all the time, like kaolla stated.. the focus just wasn't there
there's nothing bad with giving some critic too imo..
watching draco play didn't impress me as much as it impressed you guys i guess i was excited by their openings and liked how testie played a straight 1:1 vs midas.. i wasn't that impressed by teching to cars and cruising around for 30mins and still losing tho -_-; It's cool to see foreigners trying to take down those koreans tho..
their strategical preparation was very nice.. but it wasn't like it was unbelievably great.. nothing new, we've seen more ppl do it. nazgul anyone? imo his strategical preparation and game understanding is even way better.. or used to be.
so all in all, draco's play rocked, we've never seen him play that well before.. testie did really well too, as expected (i actually found testie more impressive than draco).. foreigners are too far behind tho to win games off them in a straight up game.. koreans still > foreigners in every way possible except cheesing. koreans didnt seem all too focussed. GL HF D:
oh.. i think kaolla is too critical and does take draco down too much, but i guess that's because he only gets praised++++ :O so it's understandable.. oh.. and btw, magic~phil.. exaggerating is a profession on its own too.. First Fisheye is the illest motherfuckin' G of the whole bw universe.. now it's draco.. you've already shown you dont know what you're talking about many times before and convinced all of us succesfully... you can stop trying now. draco can't keep up with gamers like oov/midas, but nobody's blaming him for that. what do you expect -_-
|
Hey i do think draco played nice i said that its just that it wasnt special compared to the other foreign gosus but yea he is a damn strong player for non korean standards i said that.. just nowhere near top tier yet while some of you pretend he is close >_<
|
draco and testie played very well
however, draco vs midas you could see that had if he had not had such a monumental advantage he would have lost
he had good openings vs oov, possibly could have won if he didnt suicide carriers. Game 3 he could have won if he stalled oov at ALL maybe, he just let him walk up and siege and from there he wasnt going to win vs someone of oov's calibur. He had a big lead but played too conservative after he got that lead with his dragoons.
Overall alot of the play from everyone looked sloppy this year but i guess thats because bw has sort of changed into almost a strictly eco based game.
GJ to everyone who played though
|
|
|
that was just fucking annoying to hear the italian commentators during the finals. that was the worst part of this wcg.
ZERGLINO RUSHO LOL!?
|
On October 23 2006 15:22 Smorrie wrote:but still.. it only shows their abilities arent as great as alot of you guys want them to be.. stop pretending they can actually match up with them, because they can't eventhough they did really well and some respect should certainly be shown.
I never said draco or testie can really compete successfully with the best of the very best.
On October 23 2006 15:22 Smorrie wrote: .. oh.. and btw, magic~phil.. exaggerating is a profession on its own too.. First Fisheye is the illest motherfuckin' G of the whole bw universe.. now it's draco.. you've already shown you dont know what you're talking about many times before and convinced all of us succesfully... you can stop trying now. draco can't keep up with gamers like oov/midas, but nobody's blaming him for that. what do you expect -_-
Well since you cant argue objectivley as it seems, that's maybe the point were i should already stop discussing with you. Where did i show, that i dont know what i'm talking about ? Please show me. I never said untrue stuff about FiSheYe. I never said FiSheYe is the best non korean gamer. I never even said he is the best non korean toss. I basicaly just said i like fisheye's playing style when he is active and i think when in shape he is easily top 5 non korean gamers.
I never said Draco can reall keep up with oov or midas. So whats the point ?
Seriously you dont really know what you are talking, do you ?
All i'm saying is, that in my opinion draco's strategical execution was great and that he could have almost won vs oov and all 3 games were pretty close and what oov / midas were superior in terms of macro and timing draco made almost equal with his great strategies and micro.
I saw myself, that even after more or less big advantage draco struggeled, but everything else would be totally ubnormal vs such a fucking monster as OOv or Midas. So it's not even worth mentioning or talking down draco for having hard games , even though he was in the lead. That may be true, but that doesnt make the games of draco any less spectacular and good for me.
thats were i stop and dont write anymore shit about fisheye, plz Show me a single thread where i write stuff about fisheye that is not right or really false. You wont find a single post. So plz stop telling lies about me, saying fisheye is the ´´illest motherfuckin' G of the whole bw universe..´´ And this time read certainly, what i wrote because it annoys me , that i have to answer totally idiotic , untrue statements. ( You for example said, that now ´´ draco is my idol or what fisheye used to be´´ ) thats total rubbish. I just said i was quite stunned by dracos play and liked it. Not only vs midas/Oov , but also vs mondi and all the other gamers. thats it.. tt
PhiL
|
dude, you dont have to lie to us..
we all know you were all over fisheye's nuts.. and now you're all over draco's.. just reread your own posts sometime.. i dont feel like searching back for threads you posted in and post them here for you..
for the wcg day one thread for example where you stated that draco has become so fucking good and totally rapes midas with his so good strategy (proxy gates).. but midas won't die and tries to recover from the huge disadvantage he had by then, and suddenly you backed off about draco.. he is so far ahead tho that after whatever time he still wins and suddenly then draco is freaking good again and he turned into a beast or w/e bshit you said.. while basically draco had won the game after he warped his proxygates there and the only thing that happened throughout the whole game was midas trying to make a comeback.. which ofcourse was awesome to see, but the game was in draco's pocket all game long already -_- just shows you dont know shit ;D
i'm just commenting whatever i read on here.. so quit the subjective crap ;D after whole tl.net kept on shitting on you for the whole fisheye stuff you finally quit the whole fisheye thing.. then he retired so yeah, we aren't really seeing posts about keitel anymore now..
i do really agree on one thing you said tho... this shit isn't really worth having a discussion over.. so im out : D
|
On October 24 2006 05:12 Smorrie wrote: dude, you dont have to lie to us..
we all know you were all over fisheye's nuts.. and now you're all over draco's.. just reread your own posts sometime.. i dont feel like searching back for threads you posted in and post them here for you..
for the wcg day one thread for example where you stated that draco has become so fucking good and totally rapes midas with his so good strategy (proxy gates).. but midas won't die and tries to recover from the huge disadvantage he had by then, and suddenly you backed off about draco.. he is so far ahead tho that after whatever time he still wins and suddenly then draco is freaking good again and he turned into a beast or w/e bshit you said.. while basically draco had won the game after he warped his proxygates there and the only thing that happened throughout the whole game was midas trying to make a comeback.. which ofcourse was awesome to see, but the game was in draco's pocket all game long already -_- just shows you dont know shit ;D
i'm just commenting whatever i read on here.. so quit the subjective crap ;D after whole tl.net kept on shitting on you for the whole fisheye stuff you finally quit the whole fisheye thing.. then he retired so yeah, we aren't really seeing posts about keitel anymore now..
i do really agree on one thing you said tho... this shit isn't really worth having a discussion over.. so im out : D
Oh my god. Could you please use your brain, if available ? If you dont feel like searching for threads where i was '' all over fisheyes nuts '' i guess you basically already know you wont find anything , where i praise fisheye for no reason , or where i make a false or exxegrated statement about FiSheYe.
The next thing you still say : '' You are all over draco's nuts now'' . Tell me one thing : Can you read without interpreting >SO< much ? What i wrote, is what i wrote. Nothing else. If you cant read just let it be. I just said, what i said and i wont repeat it. Just reread my posts about Draco, i didnt praise him or anything. What i said is basically true and i also said Draco isnt on the top pro gamer level, but he is the closest foreigner right now and i find it normal, that he needs a more or less big advantage early game to win vs midas/oov, because even Reach or Nal_rA have a hard time to win vs these two without an early advantage.
''.. Just shows you know shit'' I dont know how much i know compared to the ''average'' tl net user, but i know what you are talking now about wasnt about summerizing a game. I was live reporting, under pressure, watching the game at the same time. And as you saw yourself, the game looked very much like in favour of Draco. But midas played so strong, that i wasnt sure anymore who would win. Then i realizes Draco still made it and yes, i was happy a foreigner won.
'';D after whole tl.net kept on shitting on you for the whole fisheye stuff you finally quit the whole fisheye thing..'' ( SmorrieTheBrainless )
~ > Okey. Step by step for you very wise guy. 1) It wasnt the whole tl.net who shitted on me for the whole fisheye stuff. It was Incontrol and maybe 4-5 ohter people. 2) There was nothing to quit. The FiSheYe thing actually never existed. All i did was posting in a toss related topic, ABOUT THE BETTER TOSSES OUT THERE. I mentioned the name FiSheYe and what i thought about him as a player. 3) I never ''quit'' the whole thing. Again, there was nothing to quit. I did talk about FiSheYe in about 2-3 threads, ABOUT GOOD TOSSES. Again he definitely had to be mentioned there and so i did. Nothing else. If there are no topics about fish himself or about Tosses or good foreigners i never come up with Frederik Keitel alias FiSheYe myself. I never posted his name anywhere , where it was not related to the topic.
It's really sad to see people talking about a matter they have no clue about. And just hearing from one of your dutch friends, that i did fisheye favours ( the stupid cock sucking story invented by Strafe), ect.. you thought you know something. You dont..
Did you realize, all the stuff about Fisheye , ''Draco Lover PhiL'' was all started by you, with just interpreting all the stuff in my posts about draco's games ?
Keep on writing until you realize you dont have any facts at all. Keep on writing until the day you realize , that what you write makes no sense. And please dont write anything new, but answer my questions or sentences this time and dont write new stuff again.
PhiL
|
offtopic but..
did you do draco favours too?
|
haha fisheyphile OAlaAOALao
|
|
On October 24 2006 06:30 BinGBonG[gamei] wrote: make it 7 then.
plz edit to : make it 7 idiots then
p.s : Smorrie you again didnt answer on my questions or respond to my post. But i guess you will come up with another excuse or off topic joke, which.. yes.. at least YOU will find funny.
|
Netherlands4511 Posts
|
|
|
|