Team Flash pls. My boy BeSt is going to carry his team to victory in this tournament and I don't want this achievement to be cheapened because they had no opportunity to stomp Team Flash.
We just checked liquipedia and it looks like the last time we had a televised 2v2 was 2008-08-09, over 8.5 years ago. We are very much so looking forward to the 2v2 as well as the rest of the games.
On February 18 2017 19:31 M2 wrote: I am not following BW closely for the last few years, but isn't fighting spirit one of the most balanced map for all match ups?
On February 18 2017 19:27 Terrorbladder wrote: What a sunken bust! Was that a timing attack from Flash? I thought Effort did enough with his Muta micro...
It was a respond becouse effort moved his mutas too far away.
On February 18 2017 19:31 M2 wrote: I am not following BW closely for the last few years, but isn't fighting spirit one of the most balanced map for all match ups?
On February 18 2017 19:31 M2 wrote: I am not following BW closely for the last few years, but isn't fighting spirit one of the most balanced map for all match ups?
On February 18 2017 19:31 M2 wrote: I am not following BW closely for the last few years, but isn't fighting spirit one of the most balanced map for all match ups?
it now has like a 64% win rate in TvZ
Where did you get those stats from? anw it's just a matter of Muta micro practice *crosses fingers*
Was watching the FPV. EffOrt made his last Overlord late so he ended up supply blocked making Mutas (unless he was scheming some high level ling sacrifice to free up supply), or at least he waited too long to decide if he should use those minerals to sunken up. I didn't quite glimpse Flash's build (4 rax?), but it seemed he had EffOrt's number regardless.
On February 18 2017 19:34 LittLeLives wrote: Was watching the FPV. EffOrt made his last Overlord late so he ended up supply blocked making Mutas, or at least he waited too long to decide if he should use those minerals to sunken up. I didn't quite glimpse Flash's build (4 rax?), but it seemed he had EffOrt's number regardless.
On February 18 2017 19:56 arbiter_md wrote: Can anybody tell the TeamliquidTV folks that their stream has no video? Just the sound. Or is it intended to be as a radio?
On February 18 2017 19:56 arbiter_md wrote: Can anybody tell the TeamliquidTV folks that their stream has no video? Just the sound. Or is it intended to be as a radio?
It's to make people aware of the http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2 since we are both staff members and official ASL casters.
On February 18 2017 19:56 arbiter_md wrote: Can anybody tell the TeamliquidTV folks that their stream has no video? Just the sound. Or is it intended to be as a radio?
It's to make people aware of the http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2 since we are both staff members and official ASL casters.
Too bad, because I was looking for a twitch stream. Afreeca is often lagy in europe
On February 18 2017 20:04 [[Starlight]] wrote: Bat-girl is making me think about Suicide Squad... and how ridiculously underpowered a hot girl with a bat and no powers is vs super-threats.
On February 18 2017 20:04 [[Starlight]] wrote: Bat-girl is making me think about Suicide Squad... and how ridiculously underpowered a hot girl with a bat and no powers is vs super-threats.
On February 18 2017 20:25 arbiter_md wrote: I've just read the liquipedia about this league. How did they choose the players in their team? What if two teams wanted one player?
Also interesting that hero team has only zerg players. I think they are disadvantaged with this.
I think the higher seed had the first word. So Flash was the first to choose, than Sea, JD, Best and so on
i actually think they kinda fucked up with the teams. Yes the players had to make them, but it's bad for the league when it's that imbalanced :/ And then we even get Flash vs hero first round -.-
Friendship is the main driver for the team setup. FlaSh is close with Rain. Free and Stork were both [gm] clan upper brass, Sea, Shuttle and Terror are well Team Afreeca, GuemChi, Soulkey and PianO are all ex-Stars etc.
On February 18 2017 20:33 c3rberUs wrote: Friendship is the main driver for the team setup. FlaSh is close with Rain. Free and Stork were both [gm] clan upper brass, Sea, Shuttle and Terror are well Team Afreeca, GuemChi, Soulkey and PianO are all ex-Stars etc.
Interesting development with the runby
Oh yeah i understand that, i simply think it's bad for the league :D
On February 18 2017 20:48 thezanursic wrote: That valk micro was insane, wish last was in a better position so he could take advantage of that sick valk micro
yeah that was actually reallyyy godly...this really needs to be emphasized
On February 18 2017 20:48 thezanursic wrote: That valk micro was insane, wish last was in a better position so he could take advantage of that sick valk micro
On February 18 2017 20:52 coverpunch wrote: This should have been decided 3v3, everyone must be protoss and cannon rush. The way God intended human conflicts to be decided in John 3:17.
Zero seems the safer choice cause of momentum and between him and effort he's overall more consistent. But Effort fits the role of ace more than Zero. While Effort is more inconsistent I think he has a higher peak than Zero and against Flash I think that matters more.
I hope ASL3 dates work out for ZerO before he leaves. Would be sad if this is the last we'd see of him (think he might show up for the OGN Team League). RIP Team herO Team ZerO
On February 18 2017 20:50 FlaShFTW wrote: why effort lol
Cuz he is the best zerg in the scene.
jaedong would like to have a word with you
effort is better at the moment... JD needs more time, effort has almost 2 years headstart in this post Kespa era...
JD was in semis in ASL. Where was effort?
effort won a ASL while JD was sulking at home wondering whether streaming BW in afreeca is a nice idea.
JD couldn't stream BW because of his contract with EG. Also we are talking about currently best Zerg and JD showed better results recently.
every one knows JD had an EG contract, n ot knowing i employed a figure of speech was just poor from you. also effort has better sponmatch results than JD atm check the results from ygosu. thats a fact
I noticed how Larva plays against Flash's 5 rax: he sends two drones at once to take 3rd base, each to seperate main base. This way if one base gets scouted he can put the other hatchery right away. Zerg happily sits on 3 bases, buys time and proceeds to late game.
I still think Zero should have gone instead of Effort though :/
On February 18 2017 20:50 FlaShFTW wrote: why effort lol
Cuz he is the best zerg in the scene.
jaedong would like to have a word with you
effort is better at the moment... JD needs more time, effort has almost 2 years headstart in this post Kespa era...
JD was in semis in ASL. Where was effort?
effort won a ASL while JD was sulking at home wondering whether streaming BW in afreeca is a nice idea.
JD couldn't stream BW because of his contract with EG. Also we are talking about currently best Zerg and JD showed better results recently.
every one knows JD had an EG contract, n ot knowing i employed a figure of speech was just poor from you. also effort has better sponmatch results than JD atm check the results from ygosu. thats a fact
he has better results in spon matches indeed, but he choked hard in ASL2 and today his games were very very poor. And the big stages show who is the better player not on-line spon matches. So I still think that JD>Effort
On February 18 2017 20:50 FlaShFTW wrote: why effort lol
Cuz he is the best zerg in the scene.
jaedong would like to have a word with you
effort is better at the moment... JD needs more time, effort has almost 2 years headstart in this post Kespa era...
JD was in semis in ASL. Where was effort?
effort won a ASL while JD was sulking at home wondering whether streaming BW in afreeca is a nice idea.
JD couldn't stream BW because of his contract with EG. Also we are talking about currently best Zerg and JD showed better results recently.
every one knows JD had an EG contract, n ot knowing i employed a figure of speech was just poor from you. also effort has better sponmatch results than JD atm check the results from ygosu. thats a fact
Are you talking about the january results or february? Not everyone can read korean
Effort was way behind as soon as he had to cancel his third, but he got a tad unlucky with losing the first three Lurkers because if he moves them 3 seconds sooner, they get to the bridges, and 3 seconds later, he wouldn't move them away from the Sunkens at all. It's at least a game if he has 5 Lurkers to work with.
On February 18 2017 20:50 FlaShFTW wrote: why effort lol
Cuz he is the best zerg in the scene.
jaedong would like to have a word with you
effort is better at the moment... JD needs more time, effort has almost 2 years headstart in this post Kespa era...
JD was in semis in ASL. Where was effort?
effort won a ASL while JD was sulking at home wondering whether streaming BW in afreeca is a nice idea.
JD couldn't stream BW because of his contract with EG. Also we are talking about currently best Zerg and JD showed better results recently.
every one knows JD had an EG contract, n ot knowing i employed a figure of speech was just poor from you. also effort has better sponmatch results than JD atm check the results from ygosu. thats a fact
he has better results in spon matches indeed, but he choked hard in ASL2 and today his games were very very poor. And the big stages show who is the better player not on-line spon matches. So I still think that JD>Effort
effort has alrady proven himself (ASL TROPHY), JD no. your arguments look poorer by the minute lmao. typical JD fanboi :-)
JD is the greatest Zerg ever, but right now he's struggling badly in ZvT. He had one awesome BO5 against Flash which showed his greatness and competitive spirit, but man, you'd be crazy to take him over like five other Zergs right now in a ZvT.
Phew, it's been so long to watch live matches again (without sleep). Great matches even though most people may not be fully satisfied with level of game play.
I was doing some live Korean commentary->English chat translation practice that I haven't done for a long time on my stream and had a good feel doing it again. Maybe I'll do more in near future.
On February 18 2017 20:50 FlaShFTW wrote: why effort lol
Cuz he is the best zerg in the scene.
jaedong would like to have a word with you
effort is better at the moment... JD needs more time, effort has almost 2 years headstart in this post Kespa era...
JD was in semis in ASL. Where was effort?
effort won a ASL while JD was sulking at home wondering whether streaming BW in afreeca is a nice idea.
JD couldn't stream BW because of his contract with EG. Also we are talking about currently best Zerg and JD showed better results recently.
every one knows JD had an EG contract, n ot knowing i employed a figure of speech was just poor from you. also effort has better sponmatch results than JD atm check the results from ygosu. thats a fact
he has better results in spon matches indeed, but he choked hard in ASL2 and today his games were very very poor. And the big stages show who is the better player not on-line spon matches. So I still think that JD>Effort
effort has alrady proven himself (ASL TROPHY), JD no. your arguments look poorer by the minute lmao. typical JD fanboi :-)
Not really wanting to barge in into your ridiculous discussion but what "ASL" did Effort win? Certainly not ASL 1 where he didn't make it past the group stage and also certainly not ASL 2 where he also didn't make it past the group stage.
On February 18 2017 21:17 darktreb wrote: JD is the greatest Zerg ever, but right now he's struggling badly in ZvT. He had one awesome BO5 against Flash which showed his greatness and competitive spirit, but man, you'd be crazy to take him over like five other Zergs right now in a ZvT.
ALL zergs are struggling with ZvT. It's ridiculous not to even acknowledge this. Zerg is on an uphill battle except for that 20 seconds timing where zerg has 4 bases against terran 5 base, where MAYBE he can Sauron the terran.
On February 18 2017 20:50 FlaShFTW wrote: why effort lol
Cuz he is the best zerg in the scene.
jaedong would like to have a word with you
effort is better at the moment... JD needs more time, effort has almost 2 years headstart in this post Kespa era...
JD was in semis in ASL. Where was effort?
effort won a ASL while JD was sulking at home wondering whether streaming BW in afreeca is a nice idea.
JD couldn't stream BW because of his contract with EG. Also we are talking about currently best Zerg and JD showed better results recently.
every one knows JD had an EG contract, n ot knowing i employed a figure of speech was just poor from you. also effort has better sponmatch results than JD atm check the results from ygosu. thats a fact
he has better results in spon matches indeed, but he choked hard in ASL2 and today his games were very very poor. And the big stages show who is the better player not on-line spon matches. So I still think that JD>Effort
effort has alrady proven himself (ASL TROPHY), JD no. your arguments look poorer by the minute lmao. typical JD fanboi :-)
ASL starleauge 1 was won by Shuttle, not by effort. Effort won VANT starleague and that was more then TWO years ago. And you said, qouting: "effort is better at the moment". What two-years-ago achievement has anything to do with "at the moment"? ASL1 - effort dropped in a group stage, ASL2 - guess what, effort dropped in a group stage once more. As soon as bigger names got in the scene, effort started choking in big tournaments. On the other hand JD went 2-3 against Flash in semis in the ASL2.
Edit: I would probably put Zero over any zerg atm, but effort is just a shadow of a Zerg he used to be. And if we look at the post-kespa era as a whole, in my opinion Killer was the greatest Zerg
On February 18 2017 21:11 Zera wrote: I noticed how Larva plays against Flash's 5 rax: he sends two drones at once to take 3rd base, each to seperate main base. This way if one base gets scouted he can put the other hatchery right away. Zerg happily sits on 3 bases, buys time and proceeds to late game.
I still think Zero should have gone instead of Effort though :/
On February 18 2017 21:31 [[Starlight]] wrote: But can anybody really beat Flash in ZvT right now? Consistently? Seems kinda moot to argue which Z is the best one to serve up on a platter to him.
JD getting back to peak form can't come soon enough.
On February 18 2017 21:31 [[Starlight]] wrote: But can anybody really beat Flash in ZvT right now? Consistently? Seems kinda moot to argue which Z is the best one to serve up on a platter to him.
JD getting back to peak form can't come soon enough.
I don't get this mindset. Nobody can beat Flash in TvZ consistently -> change the map pool? One player dominating a match up has little to do with balance and should never be the reason to take balancing actions. If others can replicate what he's doing then yes, of course. Now I don't know if that's the case right now, my point is: judging the whole TvZ by Flash is nonsensical. Like no one banned Nadal from clay courts in 2005-2013.
On February 18 2017 20:53 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: [quote] Cuz he is the best zerg in the scene.
jaedong would like to have a word with you
effort is better at the moment... JD needs more time, effort has almost 2 years headstart in this post Kespa era...
JD was in semis in ASL. Where was effort?
effort won a ASL while JD was sulking at home wondering whether streaming BW in afreeca is a nice idea.
JD couldn't stream BW because of his contract with EG. Also we are talking about currently best Zerg and JD showed better results recently.
every one knows JD had an EG contract, n ot knowing i employed a figure of speech was just poor from you. also effort has better sponmatch results than JD atm check the results from ygosu. thats a fact
he has better results in spon matches indeed, but he choked hard in ASL2 and today his games were very very poor. And the big stages show who is the better player not on-line spon matches. So I still think that JD>Effort
effort has alrady proven himself (ASL TROPHY), JD no. your arguments look poorer by the minute lmao. typical JD fanboi :-)
ASL starleauge 1 was won by Shuttle, not by effort. Effort won VANT starleague and that was more then TWO years ago. And you said, qouting: "effort is better at the moment". What two-years-ago achievement has anything to do with "at the moment"? ASL1 - effort dropped in a group stage, ASL2 - guess what, effort dropped in a group stage once more. As soon as bigger names got in the scene, effort started choking in big tournaments. On the other hand JD went 2-3 against Flash in semis in the ASL2.
Edit: I would probably put Zero over any zerg atm, but effort is just a shadow of a Zerg he used to be. And if we look at the post-kespa era as a whole, in my opinion Killer was the greatest Zerg
VANT Starleague was one year ago. The finals were in January 2016. Effort beat Bisu in the finals.
It's weird how many anti-fans Effort seems to have. I guess some Flash fans resent the OSL loss, and JD fans feel threatened because Effort was the second best Zerg in modern BW?
So much is being made out of getting knocked out of two group stages. Especially this past ASL, he got knocked out by first losing an absolutely epic game against Rain, one of the best games of the year, and then losing a ZvT to Light, one of the best TvZ players ever, plus Light whipped out a special build for that game.
If your life depended on picking one Zerg to play one game or series for you today, who else you gonna go with?
On February 18 2017 20:53 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: [quote] Cuz he is the best zerg in the scene.
jaedong would like to have a word with you
effort is better at the moment... JD needs more time, effort has almost 2 years headstart in this post Kespa era...
JD was in semis in ASL. Where was effort?
effort won a ASL while JD was sulking at home wondering whether streaming BW in afreeca is a nice idea.
JD couldn't stream BW because of his contract with EG. Also we are talking about currently best Zerg and JD showed better results recently.
every one knows JD had an EG contract, n ot knowing i employed a figure of speech was just poor from you. also effort has better sponmatch results than JD atm check the results from ygosu. thats a fact
he has better results in spon matches indeed, but he choked hard in ASL2 and today his games were very very poor. And the big stages show who is the better player not on-line spon matches. So I still think that JD>Effort
effort has alrady proven himself (ASL TROPHY), JD no. your arguments look poorer by the minute lmao. typical JD fanboi :-)
ASL starleauge 1 was won by Shuttle, not by effort. Effort won VANT starleague and that was more then TWO years ago. And you said, qouting: "effort is better at the moment". What two-years-ago achievement has anything to do with "at the moment"? ASL1 - effort dropped in a group stage, ASL2 - guess what, effort dropped in a group stage once more. As soon as bigger names got in the scene, effort started choking in big tournaments. On the other hand JD went 2-3 against Flash in semis in the ASL2.
Edit: I would probably put Zero over any zerg atm, but effort is just a shadow of a Zerg he used to be. And if we look at the post-kespa era as a whole, in my opinion Killer was the greatest Zerg
VANT Starleague was one year ago. The finals were in January 2016. Effort beat Bisu in the finals.
It's weird how many anti-fans Effort seems to have. I guess some Flash fans resent the OSL loss, and JD fans feel threatened because Effort was the second best Zerg in modern BW?
So much is being made out of getting knocked out of two group stages. Especially this past ASL, he got knocked out by first losing an absolutely epic game against Rain, one of the best games of the year, and then losing a ZvT to Light, one of the best TvZ players ever, plus Light whipped out a special build for that game.
If your life depended on picking one Zerg to play one game or series for you today, who else you gonna go with?
Honestly? I would have picked the stronger zvt player who also had a better day
Also I don't think the people you're addressing are necessarily anti-fans of Effort. It's just that no one believes in him anymore
Bleh, "anti-fan" seems like such a wrong statement. People are just being realistic instead of over-hyping effort because he beat Flash a couple of times and was on a roll for 2-3 months back in the day... He was a good zerg player and his peak plays were pretty damn strong. But in the end, outside the 2-3 months, he was worse than guys like zero and soulkey.
Flash is streaming! Flash: I didn't want to do ace match because I've haven't been playing well. But, I saw Last already taking his mouse and keyboard out. So I played.
Great news guys. Flash: I heard that sponsors are lined up to sponsor BW leagues. Even SpotTV is preparing something also. Afreeca has more sponsors lined up than they can handle.
On February 19 2017 00:05 classicyellow83 wrote: Great news guys. Flash: I heard that sponsors are lined up to sponsor BW leagues. Even SpotTV is preparing something also. Afreeca has more sponsors lined up than they can handle.
Sounds great. Let's hope we get the viewership for everything that's coming.
On February 19 2017 00:05 classicyellow83 wrote: Great news guys. Flash: I heard that sponsors are lined up to sponsor BW leagues. Even SpotTV is preparing something also. Afreeca has more sponsors lined up than they can handle.
I just got the strangest case of the chills (and it's not because of the cold.)
On February 19 2017 00:05 classicyellow83 wrote: Great news guys. Flash: I heard that sponsors are lined up to sponsor BW leagues. Even SpotTV is preparing something also. Afreeca has more sponsors lined up than they can handle.
Sounds great. Let's hope we get the viewership for everything that's coming.
Yep, if the viewership is good, it will only become bigger.
On February 18 2017 20:53 FlaShFTW wrote: [quote] jaedong would like to have a word with you
effort is better at the moment... JD needs more time, effort has almost 2 years headstart in this post Kespa era...
JD was in semis in ASL. Where was effort?
effort won a ASL while JD was sulking at home wondering whether streaming BW in afreeca is a nice idea.
JD couldn't stream BW because of his contract with EG. Also we are talking about currently best Zerg and JD showed better results recently.
every one knows JD had an EG contract, n ot knowing i employed a figure of speech was just poor from you. also effort has better sponmatch results than JD atm check the results from ygosu. thats a fact
he has better results in spon matches indeed, but he choked hard in ASL2 and today his games were very very poor. And the big stages show who is the better player not on-line spon matches. So I still think that JD>Effort
effort has alrady proven himself (ASL TROPHY), JD no. your arguments look poorer by the minute lmao. typical JD fanboi :-)
ASL starleauge 1 was won by Shuttle, not by effort. Effort won VANT starleague and that was more then TWO years ago. And you said, qouting: "effort is better at the moment". What two-years-ago achievement has anything to do with "at the moment"? ASL1 - effort dropped in a group stage, ASL2 - guess what, effort dropped in a group stage once more. As soon as bigger names got in the scene, effort started choking in big tournaments. On the other hand JD went 2-3 against Flash in semis in the ASL2.
Edit: I would probably put Zero over any zerg atm, but effort is just a shadow of a Zerg he used to be. And if we look at the post-kespa era as a whole, in my opinion Killer was the greatest Zerg
VANT Starleague was one year ago. The finals were in January 2016. Effort beat Bisu in the finals.
It's weird how many anti-fans Effort seems to have. I guess some Flash fans resent the OSL loss, and JD fans feel threatened because Effort was the second best Zerg in modern BW?
So much is being made out of getting knocked out of two group stages. Especially this past ASL, he got knocked out by first losing an absolutely epic game against Rain, one of the best games of the year, and then losing a ZvT to Light, one of the best TvZ players ever, plus Light whipped out a special build for that game.
If your life depended on picking one Zerg to play one game or series for you today, who else you gonna go with?
oh yes, my bad, it was one year ago.
I will be honest, I don't like Effort, but not for the reasons you stated. And I really wanted him to win today, because I love Zerg race <3
Light whipped out a special build, so why Effort didn't preapre any special build against Light? Why he didn't prepare any special builds for todays games against Flash? Maybe he just doesn't take the game seriosuly enough and that's sad :/
Guys, please remember that these players have already retired as far as their professional careers are concerned, of course they DON'T have to take these games (the team games today) as seriously as they used to in the Kespa era. They're having fun with these games. Think of the games as sponmatches but on LAN
On February 19 2017 01:34 Terrorbladder wrote: Guys, please remember that these players have already retired as far as their professional careers are concerned, of course they DON'T have to take these games (the team games today) as seriously as they used to in the Kespa era. They're having fun with these games. Think of the games as sponmatches but on LAN
You are right ofc, but imo these players also have a responisbility to help the scene as a whole. It's nothing i am really upset about but i think they could have done a bit better.
About Effort: I mean online he looks great but you also have to do it offline imo. JD's offline result was better, you cannot deny that. Also "best zerg" isn't only about ZvT, there are more matchups to consider.
On February 19 2017 00:05 classicyellow83 wrote: Great news guys. Flash: I heard that sponsors are lined up to sponsor BW leagues. Even SpotTV is preparing something also. Afreeca has more sponsors lined up than they can handle.
That sounds great, let's see what is happening (OGN PLS)
On February 18 2017 23:10 juvenal wrote: I don't get this mindset. Nobody can beat Flash in TvZ consistently -> change the map pool? One player dominating a match up has little to do with balance and should never be the reason to take balancing actions. If others can replicate what he's doing then yes, of course. Now I don't know if that's the case right now, my point is: judging the whole TvZ by Flash is nonsensical. Like no one banned Nadal from clay courts in 2005-2013.
Fighting Spirit has been an issue for zergs for the past several years. Circuit Breaker is also workings towards that direction. Zero won today because he was on a three spawn map with close rush distances where he was able to punish a greedy Terran player. 5rax can only be punished on FS and CB by two base mutas if Terran makes a large amount of mistakes. And I am not saying maps in response to flash but to state of TvZ in general.
I don't really like talking about balance, but from a spectator standpoint it is really brutal to watch ZvT.
In the scenarios where the Zerg can't get map control to establish their third base, the game is pretty much already over. It isn't even semi-exciting in the "Let's root for the underdog" kind of way, because it is more like "Lets hope the Terran player has an aneurysm so the Zerg has a chance".
On February 19 2017 07:21 SCC-Faust wrote: I don't really like talking about balance, but from a spectator standpoint it is really brutal to watch ZvT.
In the scenarios where the Zerg can't get map control to establish their third base, the game is pretty much already over. It isn't even semi-exciting in the "Let's root for the underdog" kind of way, because it is more like "Lets hope the Terran player has an aneurysm so the Zerg has a chance".
Yeah, that's like watching FvZ when Flash was on top of his game, destroying zergs left and right before hive tech. Although we have to see more tournament games imho. There is probably a way to probably play against this, it just has to be figured out.
If not, new maps would be a good idea to test out.
On February 19 2017 07:21 SCC-Faust wrote: I don't really like talking about balance, but from a spectator standpoint it is really brutal to watch ZvT.
In the scenarios where the Zerg can't get map control to establish their third base, the game is pretty much already over. It isn't even semi-exciting in the "Let's root for the underdog" kind of way, because it is more like "Lets hope the Terran player has an aneurysm so the Zerg has a chance".
Yeah, that's like watching FvZ when Flash was on top of his game, destroying zergs left and right before hive tech. Although we have to see more tournament games imho. There is probably a way to probably play against this, it just has to be figured out.
If not, new maps would be a good idea to test out.
On February 19 2017 07:21 SCC-Faust wrote: I don't really like talking about balance, but from a spectator standpoint it is really brutal to watch ZvT.
In the scenarios where the Zerg can't get map control to establish their third base, the game is pretty much already over. It isn't even semi-exciting in the "Let's root for the underdog" kind of way, because it is more like "Lets hope the Terran player has an aneurysm so the Zerg has a chance".
Yeah, that's like watching FvZ when Flash was on top of his game, destroying zergs left and right before hive tech. Although we have to see more tournament games imho. There is probably a way to probably play against this, it just has to be figured out.
If not, new maps would be a good idea to test out.
Lets give it another 6 years to figure out
Well, 5 rax play had disappeared from the scene for a considerable amount of time. Well, not disappeared completely but it was way less popular than it is now after Last (and Flash I guess) brought it back.
On February 19 2017 07:21 SCC-Faust wrote: I don't really like talking about balance, but from a spectator standpoint it is really brutal to watch ZvT.
In the scenarios where the Zerg can't get map control to establish their third base, the game is pretty much already over. It isn't even semi-exciting in the "Let's root for the underdog" kind of way, because it is more like "Lets hope the Terran player has an aneurysm so the Zerg has a chance".
Yeah, that's like watching FvZ when Flash was on top of his game, destroying zergs left and right before hive tech. Although we have to see more tournament games imho. There is probably a way to probably play against this, it just has to be figured out.
If not, new maps would be a good idea to test out.
On February 19 2017 07:21 SCC-Faust wrote: I don't really like talking about balance, but from a spectator standpoint it is really brutal to watch ZvT.
In the scenarios where the Zerg can't get map control to establish their third base, the game is pretty much already over. It isn't even semi-exciting in the "Let's root for the underdog" kind of way, because it is more like "Lets hope the Terran player has an aneurysm so the Zerg has a chance".
It is also really brutal from a spectator standpoint to watch PvZ in the scenarios where the Protoss can't get map control to establish a third base. Or in the scenarios where the Zerg keeps doing 3hatch Spire into 5hatch Hydra and Protoss predictably dies to a bust...
Last and FlaSh didn't bring back 5-rax. It started becoming a thing when Mind and Mong started using it way back (they were dominating everyone back then too, minus Free and Bisu) and it gradually became brutal then the rest is history.
On February 18 2017 21:31 [[Starlight]] wrote: But can anybody really beat Flash in ZvT right now? Consistently? Seems kinda moot to argue which Z is the best one to serve up on a platter to him.
JD getting back to peak form can't come soon enough.
The answer is probably no sadly
Change the map pool. That's the best answer.
Yep, but specifically how? Just simply maps that offer Zerg a better chance to take and hold a gas third?
Damn EffOrt, you've fallen from your 2015 Bisu wrecking form, dying in less than 10 min. to M&M push, at least give us macro game. Poor ZerO, traveling all long and showing how to play by winning 2 games for these zergies...
On February 18 2017 21:09 Terrorbladder wrote: Flash be like: "You see here, Last, my firmware was created before yours, but it's more up to date than yours..."
Just like Win7 (published 2009) is better than Win10 (published 2015).
On February 19 2017 12:45 outscar wrote: Damn EffOrt, you've fallen from your 2015 Bisu wrecking form, dying in less than 10 min. to M&M push, at least give us macro game. Poor ZerO, traveling all long and showing how to play by winning 2 games for these zergies...
On February 18 2017 21:09 Terrorbladder wrote: Flash be like: "You see here, Last, my firmware was created before yours, but it's more up to date than yours..."
Just like Win7 (published 2009) is better than Win10 (published 2015).
funnily sponmatches ZerO is 3-0 over Flash this month (the only zerg with a winning record this month) :-)
after effort self owned himself and lost in 9 minutes and then zero played a nice game by managing to abuse the bad build (on outsider) by last, i was sure they would send zero, but instead this happened.... + Show Spoiler +
On February 19 2017 07:21 SCC-Faust wrote: I don't really like talking about balance, but from a spectator standpoint it is really brutal to watch ZvT.
In the scenarios where the Zerg can't get map control to establish their third base, the game is pretty much already over. It isn't even semi-exciting in the "Let's root for the underdog" kind of way, because it is more like "Lets hope the Terran player has an aneurysm so the Zerg has a chance".
It is also really brutal from a spectator standpoint to watch PvZ in the scenarios where the Protoss can't get map control to establish a third base. Or in the scenarios where the Zerg keeps doing 3hatch Spire into 5hatch Hydra and Protoss predictably dies to a bust...
This is about ZvT, not PvZ. It's funny how you as a terran immediately try to steer the argument towards PvZ. That's not what we are discussing about.
Also what are you talking about? If protoss can't establish a third, he must be ridiculously behind. PvZ nowadays is either 3 base zerg vs 2 base zerg where no one has mapcontrol, or 4 base sim city zerg where protoss gets map control until zerg has enough to break out.
I don't even really think 5 rax is that imbalanced in tvz. Ofc its a really strong build and is one of the reasons why tvz is more favored for terrans these days but the top zergs can still manage against it. Its just when Flash uses it with late-mech that makes the mu seem so unwinnable for zergs.
On February 19 2017 19:48 Ilikestarcraft wrote: I don't even really think 5 rax is that imbalanced in tvz. Ofc its a really strong build and is one of the reasons why tvz is more favored for terrans these days but the top zergs can still manage against it
On February 19 2017 15:23 Bakuryu wrote: after effort self owned himself and lost in 9 minutes and then zero played a nice game by managing to abuse the bad build (on outsider) by last, i was sure they would send zero, but instead this happened.... + Show Spoiler +
Definitely looked like they had a discussion at their table. Would've liked to know how it played out. I'm imagining something like ZerO offering to go if no one else wanted to and EffOrt finally saying he'll do it.