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Have At You! #7
Bi-weekly Broodwar Tournament Countdown:
Viewable on: https://twitch.tv/schamtoo
Where: All matches will be attempted to be played on 1.18, US-West. Channel: HaveAtYou
When: Saturday, Jun 24 5:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) Countdown:
Who: Literally anyone who can get on StarCraft 1.18.
Prizepool: $100 1st - $55 2nd - $25 3rd - $10 4th - $10
This is being sponsored/funded by me, personally.
Rules: Rules
- ICCUP Competitive Rules apply: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Competitive_Rules
- All games must be played on 1.18, on US-West. You must be in channel HaveAtYou at all times between games. Default Turn Rate of 8, unless both players agree to a higher level.
- Map pool: Fighting Spirit 1.3, Outsider 2.2, Camelot 1.6, BlueStorm 1.2, Neo Jade 2.1
- Smash.gg must be used (Instructions below)
- 1st Round DQ is after 20 minutes, subsequent rounds are after 15 minutes.
- Every round will be Bo3, Finals Bo5. Double Elimination (Losers Bracket is Bo1)
- Experiment: We will be casting these games LIVE as such if an admin flags your series to be cast YOU MUST LET SCHAMTOO INTO THE GAME
Step by step:
- Smash.gg
- Sign into your account.
- Go to the tournament's bracket page. Find your name/match and click on the box of you & opponent.
- Check-In to your match. Your opponent and you will go back and forth between banning maps, and picking a map, then your race, then it will suggest a lobby name for you to use.
- After your match, click on the box, record results, confirm. Proceed to do the same for Map 2,3 etc.
- In StarCraft
- Join US-West
- Go to channel HaveAtYou
- Find your oppponent, or use the lobby suggested by Smash.gg
- Play match.
- End of match SEND YOUR REPLAY to SCHAMTOO@GMAIL.COM
- Go back to Smash.gg (Step 1.4 above)
Notes:
- No I'm not changing from Smash.gg
- The BNet server (USWest) doesn't matter once you're in game. (If you can prove otherwise, let me know).
- Your replays in 1.18 on Windows save to your "My Documents" -> "StarCraft" -> "Maps" -> "AutoSave"
- TT1 is noob.
Contact: Schamtoo
Last Tournament
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Changelog from previous Have At You!:
- We've moved to 1.18 from ICCUP/1.16
- Double Elimination
- Will try to cast games LIVE
- We've moved to being 2 hours earlier than we use to run the tournament. (10am PDT start)
- Removed Demian and Circuit Breaker
- Added Camelot and Outsider
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France1916 Posts
Live? Now you got me interested.
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On June 19 2017 04:33 SchAmToo wrote: signs of clear TO abuse =P
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Nah he is right, TT1 is a noob.
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oh lord why CB is gone ? lets murder fighting spirit plz :/
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France1916 Posts
no code for free $1 donation?
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Seeing if I can get coupon codes for this one!
@eonzerg: CB is a great map and I love it, but Fighting Spirit is what most people use to ladder, so for newer-players I want them to have the ability to feel comfortable with at least one of the maps so they aren't scared away.
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Nice change, love all of them excpet Camelot :p. Would like to see tau cross, andromeda or match point instead. Hope to see a lot of people, i'm not sure to be there but i'm gonna try.
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On June 20 2017 03:12 SchAmToo wrote: Seeing if I can get coupon codes for this one!
@eonzerg: CB is a great map and I love it, but Fighting Spirit is what most people use to ladder, so for newer-players I want them to have the ability to feel comfortable with at least one of the maps so they aren't scared away.
Sorry to pick at you SchAmToo but how can you shamelessly remove CB (which is replacing FS as the standard map no one is scared of) and add Outsider and say you're trying to appeal to newbs Lol!
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On June 20 2017 03:33 DarkNetHunter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2017 03:12 SchAmToo wrote: Seeing if I can get coupon codes for this one!
@eonzerg: CB is a great map and I love it, but Fighting Spirit is what most people use to ladder, so for newer-players I want them to have the ability to feel comfortable with at least one of the maps so they aren't scared away. Sorry to pick at you SchAmToo but how can you shamelessly remove CB (which is replacing FS as the standard map no one is scared of) and add Outsider and say you're trying to appeal to newbs Lol!
Because in a Bo3, they can end up in FS twice given the rule-set for salty runbacks. I'm not trying to have many safe maps, but at least one is a nice thing for the newer players. I say as a newer player, among newer players.
Outsider at least in ASL as well, so people can study pro's if they want to research more on the subject. I think Jade is the most brutal map i have in the pool.
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I'm all for having FS, nothing wrong here
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Nice ^^ GL Everyone in the tour!
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glhf to all the players, im looking forward to it
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I am going to win this one. I can feel it.
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While the map conversation is up;
(4)Crown And Sceptre is very similar to Fighting Spirit but gives it a few modern twists and updates while still feeling very familiar for players. I really hope you think of using Crown And Sceptre instead of FS. Its exactly what it was made for.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/516840-map-4crown-and-sceptre-1v1
(4)Clay Fields is a cross between Circuit Breaker and FS, two currently very popular maps. It also has a little bit of spice in that some of the bases are semi islands, so could replace Outsider sort of if you wanted. Or Jade if you think that is too hard for newer players. Its very easy for a new player to start playing on Clay Fields. For example all the naturals are very easy to wall off in the standard way like on Circuit Breaker.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/521789-map-4clay-fields-1v1
Hope you like them.
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i've never played it yet but Clay Fields looks very strong for Terran due to those high grounds.
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On June 20 2017 08:07 SCC-Faust wrote: I am going to win this one. I can feel it.
Nope. I'm going to come knock you out. :D
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Hey Jukado, while I appreciate the new ideas for map pool, I'm somewhat afraid of implementing maps people don't really have an open or good way to practice on in standard ladder, or have a way to watch other people play them. I know, and realize, people can download and practice, but that requires training partners etc... Resources a lot of players don't have.
With the maps I have selected, if people are unsure how others play it, they can look at ASL.
If this were a bigger tournament where I wouldn't feel bad if people went way out of their way to practice non-standard maps, I'd take the suggestion with a bit more weight, but as it stands for a simple $100 bi-weekly it seems risky.
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On June 21 2017 00:07 Randos wrote: i've never played it yet but Clay Fields looks very strong for Terran due to those high grounds. Just looking at it, I don't think it can be any stronger than Circuit Breaker considering that there is a fair amount of ground on either side of the highground, whereas on CB there is double bridges on one side and a double ramped expo on the other.
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I'm in need of a few admins for Saturday. Admins are only expected to make sure matches are underway and helping with small problems I need people who are pretty relaxed, unbiased.
Please PM if you're interested!
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edit: Do not deregister me I am able to play today. No longer have schedule conflicts
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Reminders:
- The Tournament starts TWO HOURS earlier than normal!! - We will be playing on 1.18 - We're going to try casting _LIVE_ so please do not stream during the tournament.
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United States1430 Posts
I've been having concerns along with some other players that I know about the mouse problems on 1.18. The organizers gave the go ahead to get some input from the players which could result in a final, short notice call to stay on 1.16 if there's enough of a majority.
Please vote in the following poll:
Poll: Which version should we play on?Move to 1.18? (18) 58% Stay on iCCup 1.16? (13) 42% 31 total votes Your vote: Which version should we play on? (Vote): Move to 1.18? (Vote): Stay on iCCup 1.16?
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Mouse problem as you cannot find exact or extremely close setting of 1.16 os mouse setting?
If it ever feels heavy, turn off fps cap and portrait animation. If its the mouse speed problem, play on fullscreen and dont use in game mouse settings.
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I apologize to tournament organizer/admins and my future opponent. Have an IRL obligation that is important to me so it is likely I won't be able to show up today. Not sure how to unregister.
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Australia7069 Posts
scan vs sziky in the first round booo
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Germany3128 Posts
Would love to watch it Sadly no time today.
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On June 24 2017 22:10 Kiante wrote:scan vs sziky in the first round booo The bracket before the actual start of the tournament does not matter since it will be changed at that time.
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Seeding standings:
- Scan
- Trutacz
- Dewalt
- Dandy
- eOnzErG
- Bonyth
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so i cant stream ?
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Reminder you MUST BE IN CHANNEL "HaveAtYou" in US-WEST on 1.18
Also, the Admins today are TorkkSC and Pebble444
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Why do you allow race-picking, and how are you handling situations where people's race-picking schemes are incompatible?
For example:
Player A plays TvZ, ZvP, and PvT Player B plays TvZ, ZvP and PvT
These players can't play each other.
Player A plays TvZ, TvP, and PvT Player B plays TvZ, TvP, and PvT
These players can play each other but will have to argue over who's taking P and who's taking T. How do you settle that argument?
There's also a whole range of incompatibilities that can happen when it comes to map-specific race-pickers.
A lot of people also just consider it unfair for someone to race-pick based on map/opponent. Race-picking isn't allowed in Korean tournaments.
And what do you do if someone switches races during the countdown?
I'm just a fan/spectator but I'd definitely prefer no race-picking.
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On June 25 2017 05:43 pomwine wrote: Why do you allow race-picking, and how are you handling situations where people's race-picking schemes are incompatible?
For example:
Player A plays TvZ, ZvP, and PvT Player B plays TvZ, ZvP and PvT
These players can't play each other.
Player A plays TvZ, TvP, and PvT Player B plays TvZ, TvP, and PvT
These players can play each other but will have to argue over who's taking P and who's taking T. How do you settle that argument?
There's also a whole range of incompatibilities that can happen when it comes to map-specific race-pickers.
A lot of people also just consider it unfair for someone to race-pick based on map/opponent. Race-picking isn't allowed in Korean tournaments.
And what do you do if someone switches races during the countdown?
I'm just a fan/spectator but I'd definitely prefer no race-picking. Race picking IS allowed in Korean tournaments, or at least it used to be. I'd like to see some sort of proof that this has changed.
In past tournaments where this has happened (not speaking for Schamtoo or HAY), players often come to an agreement. It's just that simple. If I recall correctly, there was an instance where the two players switched - G1 PvT, G2 TvP, for example.
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On June 25 2017 05:43 pomwine wrote: Why do you allow race-picking, and how are you handling situations where people's race-picking schemes are incompatible?
For example:
Player A plays TvZ, ZvP, and PvT Player B plays TvZ, ZvP and PvT
These players can't play each other.
Player A plays TvZ, TvP, and PvT Player B plays TvZ, TvP, and PvT
These players can play each other but will have to argue over who's taking P and who's taking T. How do you settle that argument?
There's also a whole range of incompatibilities that can happen when it comes to map-specific race-pickers.
A lot of people also just consider it unfair for someone to race-pick based on map/opponent. Race-picking isn't allowed in Korean tournaments.
And what do you do if someone switches races during the countdown?
I'm just a fan/spectator but I'd definitely prefer no race-picking. This is actually one of the good things about using the smash site, because it forces you to pick a race or random, but the pick order gets changed for every game so it is as fair as possible.
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Wow gg's between trutacz and bonyth. I wish I could've participated in this one. As somebody coming back to sc after a really long hiatus I would really love to get the replay pack for this and previous have at you tournaments...do they get posted anywhere?
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great tournament! congrats to the winner!
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On June 25 2017 06:38 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2017 05:43 pomwine wrote: Why do you allow race-picking, and how are you handling situations where people's race-picking schemes are incompatible?
For example:
Player A plays TvZ, ZvP, and PvT Player B plays TvZ, ZvP and PvT
These players can't play each other.
Player A plays TvZ, TvP, and PvT Player B plays TvZ, TvP, and PvT
These players can play each other but will have to argue over who's taking P and who's taking T. How do you settle that argument?
There's also a whole range of incompatibilities that can happen when it comes to map-specific race-pickers.
A lot of people also just consider it unfair for someone to race-pick based on map/opponent. Race-picking isn't allowed in Korean tournaments.
And what do you do if someone switches races during the countdown?
I'm just a fan/spectator but I'd definitely prefer no race-picking. Race picking IS allowed in Korean tournaments, or at least it used to be. I'd like to see some sort of proof that this has changed. In past tournaments where this has happened (not speaking for Schamtoo or HAY), players often come to an agreement. It's just that simple. If I recall correctly, there was an instance where the two players switched - G1 PvT, G2 TvP, for example.
What if the players can't come to an agreement? Flip a coin? What if there are more than 2 possible matchups to randomize, use a custom 3-way RNG?
It just seems like a messy rule to me.
Koreans were allowed to race-pick for a while, up to I would guess about 2004-2005 or so. ChRh was a random player and sometimes race-picker. Joyo was a Terran who played PvT.
The leagues stopped allowing it for the reasons I just mentioned.
Back when I played (2002ish), I was good at mirror-matchups and tried to be a race-picker who always picked the mirror. This turned out to be almost impossible because I constantly ran into race-pickers who race-picked specifically to avoid mirrors.
There's no agreement that can be made in that situation, one person only practiced mirrors and the other person literally never plays mirrors lol.
But this is a small tournament, so if the players can just come to agreements and that works, that's cool I guess.
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btw, I'm open to all caster feedback. (Please keep it constructive)
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On June 25 2017 10:42 pomwine wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2017 06:38 Jealous wrote:On June 25 2017 05:43 pomwine wrote: Why do you allow race-picking, and how are you handling situations where people's race-picking schemes are incompatible?
For example:
Player A plays TvZ, ZvP, and PvT Player B plays TvZ, ZvP and PvT
These players can't play each other.
Player A plays TvZ, TvP, and PvT Player B plays TvZ, TvP, and PvT
These players can play each other but will have to argue over who's taking P and who's taking T. How do you settle that argument?
There's also a whole range of incompatibilities that can happen when it comes to map-specific race-pickers.
A lot of people also just consider it unfair for someone to race-pick based on map/opponent. Race-picking isn't allowed in Korean tournaments.
And what do you do if someone switches races during the countdown?
I'm just a fan/spectator but I'd definitely prefer no race-picking. Race picking IS allowed in Korean tournaments, or at least it used to be. I'd like to see some sort of proof that this has changed. In past tournaments where this has happened (not speaking for Schamtoo or HAY), players often come to an agreement. It's just that simple. If I recall correctly, there was an instance where the two players switched - G1 PvT, G2 TvP, for example. What if the players can't come to an agreement? Flip a coin? What if there are more than 2 possible matchups to randomize, use a custom 3-way RNG? It just seems like a messy rule to me. Koreans were allowed to race-pick for a while, up to I would guess about 2004-2005 or so. ChRh was a random player and sometimes race-picker. Joyo was a Terran who played PvT. The leagues stopped allowing it for the reasons I just mentioned. Back when I played (2002ish), I was good at mirror-matchups and tried to be a race-picker who always picked the mirror. This turned out to be almost impossible because I constantly ran into race-pickers who race-picked specifically to avoid mirrors. There's no agreement that can be made in that situation, one person only practiced mirrors and the other person literally never plays mirrors lol. But this is a small tournament, so if the players can just come to agreements and that works, that's cool I guess. Maybe choose a number that caster is thinking of. Whoever got the number closest, loser picks race first and then winner picks 2nd.
In the old days in korean scene, race picker has to notify his opponent 1 week ahead. Therefore, the opponent can prepare.
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That's also for situations where people are scheduled to have matches for a professional scene. For a tournament like this, the map-picks come after the race pick.
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Australia7069 Posts
On June 25 2017 11:56 SchAmToo wrote: btw, I'm open to all caster feedback. (Please keep it constructive)
I think overall you did a really good job. Some ideas for future improvements would be:
1) Say "actually" a little bit less, and tryand repeat adjectives a bit less. For example, "Scan immediately threw down the missle turret immediately" 2) When you're solo casting, I think you could maybe spend a bit less time saying what we can see, and a bit more time talking about what they might do, even if you end up being wrong I find it interesting to hear what paths the player might have, and then see if that happens or not.
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Schamtoo, thank you so much for hosting this. I had a blast. Makes me wanna play more!
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On June 25 2017 11:56 SchAmToo wrote: btw, I'm open to all caster feedback. (Please keep it constructive)
Loved it all, great tournament great caster. One possible improvement would be to speak in bigger-picture terms and commentate on the long-term narrative of the game more.
For example, there's a big difference between attacking with some zerglings, and stopping drone production and rallying zerglings. The first is just standard pressure to force zealot/marine/cannon/bunker production, but the second is a majorly divergent decision the Zerg player is making. He's sacrificing part of his mid/late-game economy because he thinks he's spotted some weakness that can be exploited, and a lot of the game is going to hinge on how much of an ROI he gets on that zergling rally. (Similar situations with Hydras in ZvP, Lurker/Ling in ZvT, etc)
Another example would be, in TvP if a Terran is stopping SCV production and doing 5-fac macro without taking his third, it's usually because he's planning a +1 timing attack. Again betting his late-game economy on the ROI of a highly optimized mid-game push.
And not just timing attacks or worker production. It can be early DT tech, 1-base lurker, timed overlord elevator, bunker rush, etc. All examples of betting your mid- or late-game economy on the acute ROI of an attack. And there are examples in the opposite direction where you risk exposing yourself to an attack in the hopes of gaining a highly optimized economy, e.g. CC before rax potentially taking a "build-order loss" to a 4pool or proxy gate, or 3rd hatch before pool potentially taking a build-order loss. But if the gamble pays off, it's huge, and the opponent needs to spend the rest of the game trying to catch up, and that colors every part of the rest of the game.
And as players make these big-picture bets, where they're sacrificing future economic advantage for the potential to gain a different kind of advantage (or win outright) by optimizing the strength of their timed offense, or knowingly exposing themselves to an attack to push for a stronger economic advantage, a story unfolds. Did the Zerg player kill enough probes with his ling rally to make up for the lost drone production? Did the Terran player do enough damage and stall the Protoss expansion long enough to justify delaying his 3rd natural? Did the Protoss player pull off his 14 Nexus without taking any damage?
And all these decisions have ripple effects throughout the rest of the game that are irreversible. There are PvZ matches where the Zerg stops drone production to rally lings, does a bit of damage to the Protoss wall but not enough... then the game stabilizes, goes into a 40-minute macro war, and the Protoss wins. Many casters would just say "Z fought hard but couldn't handle the superior macro of P", but a better commentary would be to convey the entire arc/narrative of the game, which is that the Zerg player misjudged the strength of the Protoss wall, sacrificed larva/drones and failed to do enough damage with his attack to make up for it, and the Protoss player converted that failed bet by Zerg into a series of subtle mid- and late-game advantages that culminated in him winning the macro war and taking the game.
And every game has major tactical shifts that happen both ways, it's not just one thing that colors the game, it's also how the players choose to respond. In the above example, the Protoss player could have overestimated the mid-game economic advantage he'd gain from the failed ling rally, causing him to delay his 3rd to optimize a 2-base timing attack of gateway units thinking he could end the game there, then failed, giving up his late-game economic advantage and eventually losing the macro war.
Maybe a good practice would be to end each game by recapping each major "phase" the game went through, and what effect each phase had on the following phases. e.g. failed DT rush, causing delayed natural and economic disadvantage in mid-game for Protoss, but it was compensated for by stalling the Terran push with great reaver micro and taking a hidden base that went unnoticed, leading into a dominant macro endgame. etc.
I'm definitely doing a bit of Monday-morning quarterbacking here. You already do a lot of this, but the speculation on those big-picture tactical decisions is my favorite part of commentary (whether I agree with the caster or not), so I'd love it if you did more.
Overall great job. I enjoy your personality, and the fact that you're someone who came to BW late in its history gives you a very interesting perspective, and I like how you're able to make comparisons to other games. You're already my second-favorite caster after Tastosis.
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Considering the pool went to like 160$, how exactly did the distributation end up ? Still 55 % for Trutaacz ?
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On June 25 2017 15:40 AncientSion wrote: Considering the pool went to like 160$, how exactly did the distributation end up ? Still 55 % for Trutaacz ? Yes. 55% of the prize pool.
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Just out of curiosity, I didn't watch much, why was Scan DQ'ed at the end, did he go afk and stopped playing?
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On June 25 2017 10:42 pomwine wrote: The leagues stopped allowing it for the reasons I just mentioned. Koreans were allowed to play off-race well after that (July vs. Chojja, Savior's TvZ, etc.) it just wasn't common, and as Scan said, it was announced ahead of time. Either way, I do believe that your worries are mistaken and unfounded.
Your particular case would probably be a problem though, making it mirror-only. In that case I imagine you would have to ask the opponent which mirror he prefers to play and whatever he chooses, you play. That seems fair to me.
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On June 25 2017 13:19 Kiante wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2017 11:56 SchAmToo wrote: btw, I'm open to all caster feedback. (Please keep it constructive) I think overall you did a really good job. Some ideas for future improvements would be: 1) Say "actually" a little bit less, and tryand repeat adjectives a bit less. For example, "Scan immediately threw down the missle turret immediately" 2) When you're solo casting, I think you could maybe spend a bit less time saying what we can see, and a bit more time talking about what they might do, even if you end up being wrong I find it interesting to hear what paths the player might have, and then see if that happens or not.
Heh, yes. Those are two of my biggest pain points right now. I'm super aware of me saying "actually" and working that out, it's just one of those weird quirks that commentators get when they work on building up phrasing, but end up finding a single word they fixate on. For point two, that's really just because I myself am still learning quite a bit about the game. I'm still pretty new and barely a D+ in skill.
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Also in the old days, they didnt have an insane micro and good latency. Everyone thought it was normal, and people worked on b.o and mind games. Like losing tons of goons to mines on battle.net speed. No taekgyeon dragoon (택견 드라군) micro zealot drop micro to clear mines and etc.
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On June 25 2017 16:13 Cryoc wrote: Just out of curiosity, I didn't watch much, why was Scan DQ'ed at the end, did he go afk and stopped playing? scan fell asleep at 7am KST
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Hey SchAmToo thanks for organizing and casting these tournies, I enjoy them a ton! I think you are doing a great job and are a great caster, but I'm gonna throw down some (hopefully constructive) criticism, because you've asked for it.
As you've previously admitted, one thing is game knowledge, which of course is super hard to improve and takes a ton of time and effort. One thing I definitely enjoyed in this regard is having Pisan co-cast with you, because he is obviously more knowledgable, especially regarding ZvX matchups -- so that's a cool way of getting ahead in this regard. Otherwise, just hit B+ in all 6 matchups on Iccup, no biggie.
One thing I find mildly annoying is your slight over-reliance on a few phrases regarding a few specific situations. For example, when trying to build excitement you often use the phrase "ooh this a very dangerous moment for x, but also for y, because...". I personally find, and I suppose that could be just personal preference, that it would build excitement in a more organic and natural way if you just went: "will x dart in and try and bust that single cannon?? will he loose all of his lings in the process and die or will he just straight out end the game?? what will he do now???" For me, it gets somewhat tiring to hear that it's a dangerous moment in the game over and over again. Then again, for others, it might get tiring if you start yelling all the time...
Not going to ever satisfy everyone completely, that's for sure, but maybe introducing a bit of variety is a good idea in the end. One specific phrase you use a lot is 'nabbing' and 'nabbing out', and in general I kind of feel that you have this mentality that if it's x situation I use the one specific y expression I use to describe that situation in every single game. I suppose this will also improve with the game knowledge, as you become more familiar and relaxed about BW terms and know in which situations you can use which expression, what's a move out, a bust, a push, an attack, a timing attack, a standard timing attack, etc.
I guess I can be pretty nitpicky about people using these weird expression that started popping up in the BW scene recently like 'bodyblocking', and 'ramacro'... That last one irks me to no end, for some reason and especially how people just started copying from each other, 'cause it's a convenient one phrase fits all. Is it a new army that x managed to macro up whilst his main army was wiped out?? Is it the standard pure zealot reinforcement?? Is the next wave of units coming out? Is it a complete tech switch into mutas? You should be a master of words and creativity, influencing the emotions and perceptions of 200 people glued to the screen of their computers, not using the same silly expression for everyting. (No pressure :D)
Pomwine makes good points, but basically he is just asking you to git gud at the game, and then with your superior game knowledge, you'll be able to better distill what it is that you actually have to point out and focus on. Should only take like 3-4 years of intense BW playing and analysing pro games and getting help from high rank players
I personally think that most importantly, you should just relax and go with the flow -- you are a good caster, don't take it too seriously, you'll go crazy if you do. Joke around, make fun of yourself if you want, make fun of us the elitists if you want, get genuinely excited about important moments, and let your passion shine through it all; get depressed if it feels right, tell us a story about that grocery store if it feels right in the moment. Just be confident and enjoy it -- you have already established yourself as a mainstay caster and organizer in foreign BW that people know! Mad props.
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A little off-topic but I've never watched any SC2 tournaments. Does that game have the same kind of big-picture tactical stuff BW has? How much of a "chess game" is it?
I've watched a game or two and I don't know how to read or understand what's happening like I can with BW. It always just seems like each side masses up a big ball of units, and whoever wins the fight wins the game.
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