On December 07 2017 02:27 Alpha-NP- wrote: What was the reasoning in not inviting alot of modern foreign players like Bonyth, Trutacz, Nemu, etc? I bet Bonyth might have done just as well as Draco. I think the organizers were a little self-important to completely ignore the players that kept Broodwar alive during SC2.
I truly believe Bonyth has the highest chance of beating Larva in a series. If Draco could take one game, Bonyth could 2-1
Draco almost won 2-1. The 2 stargate sair game was looking great until a few bad decisions caused him to lose all his templar later on in the game. I think Bonyth is currently better than Draco, but I don't think Bonyth's aggressive style would do too well against Larva.
The problem is, those few bad decisions will happen every game and they will happen at a higher frequency than Larva. As Liquid'Drone said above, Draco has the best approach which is why he's been winning. If Draco tried to play straight up against FBH and Larva, there's a good chance he would be 0-5... Instead he's like 3-5, with 3 wins all being all-in cheeses. The longer the game goes, the higher chance he will make more mistakes than his opponent (You also have to consider the surprise factor, Larva thought he could play around in game 1 vs Draco and he got cheesed and destroyed. It didn't happen a second time).
Foreigner Protosses who prepare 1 game cheeses will probably have more success than the other races to be honest. It's very hard to cheese with Zerg against a superior opponent, since ZvP is really the only match up you can and it's relatively easy for a player of that caliber to keep their probe alive for scouting.
I don't think it's possible for any of the foreigner Terrans to even put up a fight to be honest.
I agree, the approach Draco is taking is yielding him better results than most would have against ex-pros. Not to mention he's pretty damn good and is used to playing against pros regularly. While Draco would learn from his mistakes, Larva would likely not make any game changing mistakes vs foreigners. I'm not so sure that Larva was messing around in game 1 though. Draco did a 1 base build and Larva said himself that he thought it was only 2 gates total. Larva seemed to go for a timing bust on the natural, thinking Draco would expand and get high templar, but ran into 4 gate speed zealots.
On December 07 2017 02:27 Alpha-NP- wrote: What was the reasoning in not inviting alot of modern foreign players like Bonyth, Trutacz, Nemu, etc? I bet Bonyth might have done just as well as Draco. I think the organizers were a little self-important to completely ignore the players that kept Broodwar alive during SC2.
I truly believe Bonyth has the highest chance of beating Larva in a series. If Draco could take one game, Bonyth could 2-1
Draco almost won 2-1. The 2 stargate sair game was looking great until a few bad decisions caused him to lose all his templar later on in the game. I think Bonyth is currently better than Draco, but I don't think Bonyth's aggressive style would do too well against Larva.
I think what happened here was: lava was still taking the game lightly in the beginning, even despite being down 1-0 and decided to play very serious after the opening went very bad for him with the two Stargate opening.
On December 07 2017 02:27 Alpha-NP- wrote: What was the reasoning in not inviting alot of modern foreign players like Bonyth, Trutacz, Nemu, etc? I bet Bonyth might have done just as well as Draco. I think the organizers were a little self-important to completely ignore the players that kept Broodwar alive during SC2.
I truly believe Bonyth has the highest chance of beating Larva in a series. If Draco could take one game, Bonyth could 2-1
Draco almost won 2-1. The 2 stargate sair game was looking great until a few bad decisions caused him to lose all his templar later on in the game. I think Bonyth is currently better than Draco, but I don't think Bonyth's aggressive style would do too well against Larva.
I think what happened here was: lava was still taking the game lightly in the beginning, even despite being down 1-0 and decided to play very serious after the opening went very bad for him with the two Stargate opening.
That's definitely possible. I'd have to re-watch the games to try to figure that one out.
Man you guys jumped on the hatewagon quickly. To clarify, I was not implying the logic of: Draco 1-2 Larva, and Bonyth > Draco, therefore Bonyth would 2-1 Larva.
Considering all foreigners, I believe Bonyth is definitively in the top 3, or even reduce it to top 5 for the sake of argument. Given this, and the fact that there are few foreigners who have ever beaten, hell, even played against pro players, then this is a completely valid opinion. Bonyth actually has beaten very good players. It doesn't make me delusional lol. Now, on the flipside, Larva is definitely one of the best players currently. I believe at that high level, there is a sliver of chance that Bonyth could win in a BO3, with a greater chance of success than all other foreigners.
On December 06 2017 16:48 jinjin5000 wrote: If people are wondering why Chinese people seem so mad, is give this vid a watch for some background knowledge
Very good link to explain the phenomenon we're seeing. There are so many low post-count Chinese showing up even on TL demonstrating exactly this.
On December 07 2017 08:09 Demurity wrote: Man you guys jumped on the hatewagon quickly. To clarify, I was not implying the logic of: Draco 1-2 Larva, and Bonyth > Draco, therefore Bonyth would 2-1 Larva.
Considering all foreigners, I believe Bonyth is definitively in the top 3, or even reduce it to top 5 for the sake of argument. Given this, and the fact that there are few foreigners who have ever beaten, hell, even played against pro players, then this is a completely valid opinion. Bonyth actually has beaten very good players. It doesn't make me delusional lol. Now, on the flipside, Larva is definitely one of the best players currently. I believe at that high level, there is a sliver of chance that Bonyth could win in a BO3, with a greater chance of success than all other foreigners.
I mean, Larva has the best ZvP in the world and Bonyth was eliminated from the last major tour he participated in, going 0-4 in PvZ or something like that.
On December 07 2017 08:09 Demurity wrote: Man you guys jumped on the hatewagon quickly. To clarify, I was not implying the logic of: Draco 1-2 Larva, and Bonyth > Draco, therefore Bonyth would 2-1 Larva.
Considering all foreigners, I believe Bonyth is definitively in the top 3, or even reduce it to top 5 for the sake of argument. Given this, and the fact that there are few foreigners who have ever beaten, hell, even played against pro players, then this is a completely valid opinion. Bonyth actually has beaten very good players. It doesn't make me delusional lol. Now, on the flipside, Larva is definitely one of the best players currently. I believe at that high level, there is a sliver of chance that Bonyth could win in a BO3, with a greater chance of success than all other foreigners.
I mean, Larva has the best ZvP in the world and Bonyth was eliminated from the last major tour he participated in, going 0-4 in PvZ or something like that.
Look, put it this way: Bonyth has beaten several legit top 20 pros. A bum sc player has no chance of beating them. Even showing historically that Bonyth has done it is sufficient to say he has a greater chance of winning than 99.9% of other foreigners.
Alternatively, can you list players who you believe has a better chance of Bonyth? Possibly other high level foreigners like Sziky, Trutacz, Eonzerg, Ret? I do not believe it is out of the question to think that any of these active players have a decent shot of winning a game against Larva. I just do not like the notion of, "Draco beat Larva once, man, I don't think another foreigner would have done any better than he did".
On December 07 2017 08:09 Demurity wrote: Man you guys jumped on the hatewagon quickly. To clarify, I was not implying the logic of: Draco 1-2 Larva, and Bonyth > Draco, therefore Bonyth would 2-1 Larva.
Considering all foreigners, I believe Bonyth is definitively in the top 3, or even reduce it to top 5 for the sake of argument. Given this, and the fact that there are few foreigners who have ever beaten, hell, even played against pro players, then this is a completely valid opinion. Bonyth actually has beaten very good players. It doesn't make me delusional lol. Now, on the flipside, Larva is definitely one of the best players currently. I believe at that high level, there is a sliver of chance that Bonyth could win in a BO3, with a greater chance of success than all other foreigners.
I mean, Larva has the best ZvP in the world and Bonyth was eliminated from the last major tour he participated in, going 0-4 in PvZ or something like that.
Look, put it this way: Bonyth has beaten several legit top 20 pros. A bum sc player has no chance of beating them. Even showing historically that Bonyth has done it is sufficient to say he has a greater chance of winning than 99.9% of other foreigners.
Alternatively, can you list players who you believe has a better chance of Bonyth? Possibly other high level foreigners like Sziky, Trutacz, Eonzerg, Ret? I do not believe it is out of the question to think that any of these active players have a decent shot of winning a game against Larva. I just do not like the notion of, "Draco beat Larva once, man, I don't think another foreigner would have done any better than he did".
I enjoyed watching the event, the games were pretty good overall. Also, can anyone confirm if the total prize pool for both the tournament and the showmatch is 35k USD overall? According to the distribution in liquipedia it seems to be that way. It became even bigger than what we expected in the beginning, especially given the casters that were there and the organisation staff.
On December 07 2017 10:43 Alpha-NP- wrote: Maybe I need to sponsor a showmatch of Sziky against Draco? Sayle message me if you are interested.
Who's putting up the prize money for this?
With no preparation, I would give the edge to Sziky. With preparation, probably Draco since he cares more about planning individual matches than anyone I've seen.
On December 07 2017 08:09 Demurity wrote: Man you guys jumped on the hatewagon quickly. To clarify, I was not implying the logic of: Draco 1-2 Larva, and Bonyth > Draco, therefore Bonyth would 2-1 Larva.
Considering all foreigners, I believe Bonyth is definitively in the top 3, or even reduce it to top 5 for the sake of argument. Given this, and the fact that there are few foreigners who have ever beaten, hell, even played against pro players, then this is a completely valid opinion. Bonyth actually has beaten very good players. It doesn't make me delusional lol. Now, on the flipside, Larva is definitely one of the best players currently. I believe at that high level, there is a sliver of chance that Bonyth could win in a BO3, with a greater chance of success than all other foreigners.
I mean, Larva has the best ZvP in the world and Bonyth was eliminated from the last major tour he participated in, going 0-4 in PvZ or something like that.
Look, put it this way: Bonyth has beaten several legit top 20 pros. A bum sc player has no chance of beating them. Even showing historically that Bonyth has done it is sufficient to say he has a greater chance of winning than 99.9% of other foreigners.
Alternatively, can you list players who you believe has a better chance of Bonyth? Possibly other high level foreigners like Sziky, Trutacz, Eonzerg, Ret? I do not believe it is out of the question to think that any of these active players have a decent shot of winning a game against Larva. I just do not like the notion of, "Draco beat Larva once, man, I don't think another foreigner would have done any better than he did".
On December 07 2017 08:09 Demurity wrote: Man you guys jumped on the hatewagon quickly. To clarify, I was not implying the logic of: Draco 1-2 Larva, and Bonyth > Draco, therefore Bonyth would 2-1 Larva.
Considering all foreigners, I believe Bonyth is definitively in the top 3, or even reduce it to top 5 for the sake of argument. Given this, and the fact that there are few foreigners who have ever beaten, hell, even played against pro players, then this is a completely valid opinion. Bonyth actually has beaten very good players. It doesn't make me delusional lol. Now, on the flipside, Larva is definitely one of the best players currently. I believe at that high level, there is a sliver of chance that Bonyth could win in a BO3, with a greater chance of success than all other foreigners.
I mean, Larva has the best ZvP in the world and Bonyth was eliminated from the last major tour he participated in, going 0-4 in PvZ or something like that.
Look, put it this way: Bonyth has beaten several legit top 20 pros. A bum sc player has no chance of beating them. Even showing historically that Bonyth has done it is sufficient to say he has a greater chance of winning than 99.9% of other foreigners.
Alternatively, can you list players who you believe has a better chance of Bonyth? Possibly other high level foreigners like Sziky, Trutacz, Eonzerg, Ret? I do not believe it is out of the question to think that any of these active players have a decent shot of winning a game against Larva. I just do not like the notion of, "Draco beat Larva once, man, I don't think another foreigner would have done any better than he did".
I just came here to admit that I'm pretty impressed of what Larva did in game vs Lx.
I've missed the whole tournament and just re-watched the part of 'Larva scandal' and I have no idea why people make big deal about it? That was funny, come on, if you don't agree, you're all simply lying :D