[ASL4] Ro8 Bisu vs Killer
Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48992 Posts
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keit
1584 Posts
Should be a very interesting series, Bisu winning should make up for a very interesting Bisu v Flash though. | ||
batsnacks
United States4466 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48992 Posts
On October 22 2017 16:12 keit wrote: Hype! Should be a very interesting series, Bisu winning should make up for a very interesting Bisu v Flash though. I'm still holding out for both to be eliminated | ||
chrisolo
Germany2604 Posts
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FavoritBW
Sweden52 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
On October 22 2017 16:12 keit wrote: Hype! Should be a very interesting series, Bisu winning should make up for a very interesting Bisu v Flash though. There is also hero and Larva on the other side of the branch. | ||
Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
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superjoppe
Sweden3680 Posts
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
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outscar
2788 Posts
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jtan
Sweden5891 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States9655 Posts
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3208 Posts
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mcmascote
Brazil1575 Posts
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Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia12660 Posts
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
On October 22 2017 18:30 mcmascote wrote: Ok, guys. I'll try to watch this live, so... Whats the trick to make afreeca works for foreigners? Watch it as HTML5? Thats it? This works for player streams: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/512913-guide-watch-afreeca-sc-bw-streams-with-vlc Don't know if it works for tournament as well. It eliminated the stream lag for me. | ||
mcmascote
Brazil1575 Posts
On October 22 2017 18:39 Starlightsun wrote: This works for player streams: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/512913-guide-watch-afreeca-sc-bw-streams-with-vlc Don't know if it works for tournament as well. It eliminated the stream lag for me. Thx mate. Much appreciated | ||
zion
Belgium31 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24562 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
http://play.afreecatv.com/aslenglish2 | ||
THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
On October 22 2017 18:45 zion wrote: Die protoss scum Not gonna happen. | ||
batsnacks
United States4466 Posts
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weiliem
2049 Posts
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Race Bannon
689 Posts
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THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14054 Posts
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bovienchien
Vietnam1142 Posts
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batsnacks
United States4466 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24562 Posts
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Race Bannon
689 Posts
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THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
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XiaoJoyce-
China2908 Posts
If he win Bisu, it will be Killer vs Flash . :-) Terran God. | ||
GTR
51135 Posts
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THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
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Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
had to dig into here to find them | ||
Heartland
Sweden24562 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:19 Ej_ wrote: oh wow Sair/DT Call Trotsky because this is a permanent revolution right here | ||
ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3208 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24562 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:22 ne4aJIb wrote: installed VLC, no lags, amazing Do you know if that works with the VODs too? Because those are impossible to watch without stutter every four seconds. | ||
lastride
2390 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3208 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48992 Posts
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batsnacks
United States4466 Posts
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PoP
France15446 Posts
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RHoudini
Belgium3626 Posts
3-0 incoming. | ||
Motivate
2860 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4101 Posts
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superjoppe
Sweden3680 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:23 Heartland wrote: Do you know if that works with the VODs too? Because those are impossible to watch without stutter every four seconds. I watch vods in html5 mode and it works perfect. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:27 Motivate wrote: Baxter's play feeling a bit uninspiring you could say he has no motivation | ||
GTR
51135 Posts
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outscar
2788 Posts
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Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:28 BigFan wrote: Hooray Bisu! I got worried for a bit T.T you could say he has no motivation lol i just dont get how he expects to beat bisu playing so standard and straight up | ||
Heartland
Sweden24562 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States9655 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:28 GTR wrote: Needs to also say that the DTs have hexproof | ||
letian
Germany4221 Posts
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3208 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:23 Heartland wrote: Do you know if that works with the VODs too? Because those are impossible to watch without stutter every four seconds. no idea, for the vods I use korhal.info, which has recordings on youtube. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
Well played by Bisu nonetheless. | ||
THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
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Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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GTR
51135 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12010 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
THAT'S SUCH A STUPID IDEA | ||
Motivate
2860 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14054 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24562 Posts
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GTR
51135 Posts
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Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24562 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:44 xccam wrote: Killer's drop defence isn't as good as larva's that's for sure lol, bad comparison - nobody's is! L A R V A | ||
Terrorbladder
2675 Posts
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THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:47 Terrorbladder wrote: This Ro8 sucks. The whole Ro8 or this game? I thought the other two were great. | ||
RHoudini
Belgium3626 Posts
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jtan
Sweden5891 Posts
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KobraKay
Portugal4012 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3958 Posts
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Silentenigma
Turkey2037 Posts
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3802 Posts
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outscar
2788 Posts
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Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48992 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4101 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3208 Posts
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THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:48 ShloobeR wrote: was half expecting a killer upset but Bisu v Flash will be pretty hype The upset will come when Mind wins | ||
outscar
2788 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:49 letian wrote: Jaedong is not impressed on his stream. No Mini Dong gimme real Jaedong. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:49 letian wrote: Jaedong is not impressed on his stream. but killer is his oz bud? Is he rooting for killer, just sorry for him because he wants him to do better? | ||
Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States9655 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:51 EsportsJohn wrote: If every Protoss player controlled their DTs like Bisu controls his DTs, this game would be impossible. hey you always end up losing to my DTs lol | ||
BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
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THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:54 THE Sliggy wrote: Bisu keeping the series short so I can catch Bonyth or Draco's stream. Thanks bud. Yeah, Draco stream is great. Yesterday he was a bit tired in the end though. | ||
c3rberUs
Japan11285 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:52 FlaShFTW wrote: hey you always end up losing to my DTs lol BisuFTW? | ||
THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:55 letian wrote: Yeah, Draco stream is great. Yesterday he was a bit tired in the end though. He just needs to shake off the cobwebs and work on his tilt. His mechanics are insane. | ||
letian
Germany4221 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11285 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24562 Posts
On October 22 2017 20:01 Ej_ wrote: Welp, here comes the 3-0 Yeah, feels like it | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48992 Posts
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xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On October 22 2017 20:01 Ej_ wrote: Welp, here comes the 3-0 was it ever in doubt? | ||
ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3208 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24562 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24562 Posts
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Grettin
42379 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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outscar
2788 Posts
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superjoppe
Sweden3680 Posts
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endy
Switzerland8966 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48992 Posts
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1652 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium3958 Posts
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FractalsOnFire
Australia1756 Posts
Absolute domination | ||
Motivate
2860 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
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Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12010 Posts
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outscar
2788 Posts
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Jack_
Italy38 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
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Greg_J
China4408 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11285 Posts
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THE Sliggy
Australia65 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:01 batsnacks wrote: lotta people don't realize protoss won't win on these maps :O Wish I had your foresight | ||
SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1702 Posts
so good to see bisu killing his opponents. | ||
jtan
Sweden5891 Posts
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Akara12345
164 Posts
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reminisce12
Australia318 Posts
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thezanursic
5478 Posts
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thezanursic
5478 Posts
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1702 Posts
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thezanursic
5478 Posts
We're not going to see him for 2 years then, more or less 2020, I don't know. | ||
Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
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mcmascote
Brazil1575 Posts
The interesting part is that Hero kept going hydras every game. Minimum lurker play, but he'd use hydras in everyway. If Bisu tried to take a 3rd too early he'd take advantage of that and snipe HTs with a minimum group of hydras and then follow with the rest of hydras and then transition to Mutas. And with the exception of the first game, he got wrecked everygame by bisu. I was thinking it can't be right, it looked chobo to repeatedly try that against BIsu. So I was thinking Bisu asked him to try those builds in preparation for Killer. But before the series they said Killer was preparing in secrecy? I didn't follow Killer before but it was the same build he used on goldrush. So, is he known for this style of play? Anyways, Bisu played really safe everygame and thats what made Killer look bad. He delayed his 3rd by a lot (by his standards). On game 1 it was very late. He learned from the series against Shine to play safe and trust he's the better player. Also, on Crossing Field he made cannons way before taking his 3rd and 4th gas bases. He was very safe with his sairs too. Being content with taking only one over (g1) and moving them back to avoid scourges. He also saved his first zealot. Saw 6 lings and moved back to not let any window appear for Killer to harass him. In short, he learned from the series against Shine to not be greedy against a much inferior player. | ||
mcmascote
Brazil1575 Posts
On October 22 2017 19:35 Holgerius wrote: So frustrating seeing that same shuttle drop DTs 10 times in Killers main. You'd think that after all these years Killer would've learned that this game has a unit called scourge... Well played by Bisu nonetheless. He was using it in conjunction with his sairs every time.And killer was only on two gasses. | ||
FirstProbe
1206 Posts
On October 22 2017 20:50 mcmascote wrote: He was using it in conjunction with his sairs every time.And killer was only on two gasses. For the amount of damage he took, he was better off playing like a D rank noob and putting a sunken and spore in his base. It hurt to see him repeatedly take damage that way; against a player whose multitasking is amongst the best. Disappointing series, was hoping for more from Killer... err Baxter (the name change makes sense now). | ||
.gypsy
Canada689 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
On October 22 2017 21:17 FirstProbe wrote: For the amount of damage he took, he was better off playing like a D rank noob and putting a sunken and spore in his base. It hurt to see him repeatedly take damage that way; against a player whose multitasking is amongst the best. Disappointing series, was hoping for more from Killer... err Baxter (the name change makes sense now). Building sunken and spore will put him behind in map presense, less hydras/drones which will make zealots of bisu even stronger, especially against bisu precise play every single thing is so important. I feel as a good answer to bisu style he shouldve concentrated more on building scourges, then turtle his bases, with static defences and powering on army a bit later. | ||
Xxio
Canada5565 Posts
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Valikyr
Sweden2653 Posts
On October 23 2017 00:40 Xxio wrote: The expected result. The world makes sense again. As a Bisu fan I enjoyed the games but it would be nice if there was atleast a few close moments. | ||
Fazers
734 Posts
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mastakilla[Xp]
Germany93 Posts
On October 22 2017 21:17 FirstProbe wrote: For the amount of damage he took, he was better off playing like a D rank noob and putting a sunken and spore in his base. It hurt to see him repeatedly take damage that way; against a player whose multitasking is amongst the best. Disappointing series, was hoping for more from Killer... err Baxter (the name change makes sense now). I was thinking that too. But I rewatched the games on JDs youtube chanel. And JD said that Killer already was on low eco and it was better to protect his bases with units. There are progamers and he said there is a reason why they do it that way. | ||
juuust
Finland43 Posts
On October 23 2017 01:20 Fazers wrote: For Korean VODs, is there no way to watch other than Afreeca site? The video player buffers too much I'd like to know this aswell. Couldn't find korean vods from youtube (I didn't try that hard though) and I really don't want to watch vods with english casters. | ||
EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
On October 23 2017 01:20 Fazers wrote: For Korean VODs, is there no way to watch other than Afreeca site? The video player buffers too much On October 23 2017 01:34 juuust wrote: I'd like to know this aswell. Couldn't find korean vods from youtube (I didn't try that hard though) and I really don't want to watch vods with english casters. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7vkt-Iypq-PRvfqpNbNiOw/videos | ||
Miragee
8292 Posts
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Barneyk
Sweden297 Posts
I usually don't talk like that but it was really really bad. Maybe I am just disappointed, I thought he was playing great in the earlier rounds and I was a fan during the kespa-era. But 1 sunken and 1 spore in your bases isn't that much of an investment when you have that many hatcheries and you know your opponent is going for DTs. What strategy was he even going for? Not a single try to bust with a hydra push? Bisu played well, but his harass wasn't that APM taxing, it was still pretty early. Killer just totally floundered. | ||
blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24562 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
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blueblimp
Canada297 Posts
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sM.Zik
Canada2542 Posts
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FirstProbe
1206 Posts
On October 23 2017 01:25 mastakilla[Xp] wrote: I was thinking that too. But I rewatched the games on JDs youtube chanel. And JD said that Killer already was on low eco and it was better to protect his bases with units. There are progamers and he said there is a reason why they do it that way. Yeah, I get that, and its not the right play in most circumstances. I'm just commenting on the manner in which he ended up being able to execute that game plan... which was seemingly poorly and worse than if he had just gone static D. I suspect if we see Larva vs. Bisu it'll be that sort of game. | ||
blueblimp
Canada297 Posts
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On October 23 2017 03:44 Barneyk wrote: But 1 sunken and 1 spore in your bases isn't that much of an investment when you have that many hatcheries and you know your opponent is going for DTs. I'm tired of this type of criticism. One sunken is 175 mineral (75+50+drone), not including lost mining time. You're suggesting a cost of 400+ minerals per base, which could easily be another control group of hydras, several groups of zerglings, or much faster tech. At a lower level, you might be able to shrug off the massive deficit through superior play. But against the greatest PvZ player in the world? Youre basically giving up the game. You'll deflect the harass, but then just get crushed either in an army engagement or by a timing attack. | ||
ortseam
996 Posts
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Lazare1969
United States318 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3078 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4101 Posts
On October 23 2017 06:40 ArvickHero wrote: I'm tired of this type of criticism. One sunken is 175 mineral (75+50+drone), not including lost mining time. You're suggesting a cost of 400+ minerals per base, which could easily be another control group of hydras, several groups of zerglings, or much faster tech. At a lower level, you might be able to shrug off the massive deficit through superior play. But against the greatest PvZ player in the world? Youre basically giving up the game. You'll deflect the harass, but then just get crushed either in an army engagement or by a timing attack. So you're saying losing 10+ drones is better than building a sunken and spore? Bisu went sair DT for THREE games straight, if you know its coming it's way better to spend 400+ minerals rather than potentially lose your drones & tech. Not to mention you'll have to bring hydras and overlords back, which means more apm devoted to defending which means your other bases get attacked without you noticing. Also whats is another control group of hydras going to do when you have to bring your fighting hydras back to defend, which Killer did multiple times. If you are better than your opponent I can understand why you would not want to invest in static defense, but against Bisu the best PvZer who did the same build 3 times in a row is just inexcusable. | ||
sM.Zik
Canada2542 Posts
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GTR
51135 Posts
On October 23 2017 11:13 sM.Zik wrote: My memory is getting hazy, but has Bisu 3-0'd sAviOr in essentially the same way a decade ago? yeah it was crazy to see a resurgence in corsair/dt play when we've been seeing nothing but zealot timings for a long ass time | ||
BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
On October 23 2017 11:13 sM.Zik wrote: My memory is getting hazy, but has Bisu 3-0'd sAviOr in essentially the same way a decade ago? yep, just as dominant and the same strat too for a 3-0 in March 07. | ||
Miragee
8292 Posts
On October 23 2017 10:01 Dante08 wrote: So you're saying losing 10+ drones is better than building a sunken and spore? Bisu went sair DT for THREE games straight, if you know its coming it's way better to spend 400+ minerals rather than potentially lose your drones & tech. Not to mention you'll have to bring hydras and overlords back, which means more apm devoted to defending which means your other bases get attacked without you noticing. Also whats is another control group of hydras going to do when you have to bring your fighting hydras back to defend, which Killer did multiple times. If you are better than your opponent I can understand why you would not want to invest in static defense, but against Bisu the best PvZer who did the same build 3 times in a row is just inexcusable. Killer just didn't have a chance either way. The thing is, Killer should have defended his bases with groups of hydras + overlords. Either of those was often not in place. When he had 2-3 overlords and a group of hydras, Bisu did zero damage. In the end it wouldn't have mattered because Bisu's macro was way stronger. The fact that Killer couldn't defend the harass just made it look more one-sided. I think if he had built spores and sunkens it would have looked similarly one-sided though because Bisu army advantage would have been even bigger. | ||
VioleTAK
Israel4279 Posts
Watched the VODs this just now... wow... BvZ. | ||
XiaoJoyce-
China2908 Posts
That 1 dark Templar destroy the whole Lurker HIgh ground formation ~.~ so painful huhu | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28263 Posts
On October 23 2017 10:01 Dante08 wrote: So you're saying losing 10+ drones is better than building a sunken and spore? Bisu went sair DT for THREE games straight, if you know its coming it's way better to spend 400+ minerals rather than potentially lose your drones & tech. Not to mention you'll have to bring hydras and overlords back, which means more apm devoted to defending which means your other bases get attacked without you noticing. Also whats is another control group of hydras going to do when you have to bring your fighting hydras back to defend, which Killer did multiple times. If you are better than your opponent I can understand why you would not want to invest in static defense, but against Bisu the best PvZer who did the same build 3 times in a row is just inexcusable. There's an inbetween. One sunken and spore in each base would be a too significant investment, one that would make him fall too far behind. However, completely neglecting it did cost him any chance at the game. Like in the third game, he should have had one spore in the second base (the one where overlords can't travel too all that fast). Then he only needs to have enough hydras in that base to beat any impending dts, and he could have more overlords in his natural protected by a bigger swarm of hydra. So one spore+one sunken per base, that is too much. However, say, one spore and one additional hydra in his second natural, that actually would have stopped the harassment and made him enter the mid-game on pretty equal footing. | ||
PVJ
Hungary5051 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
Bisu looks so damn scary right now. | ||
JBWKZ
Vietnam8 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24562 Posts
On October 24 2017 13:11 Golgotha wrote: haha I told you guys that baxter was fucked. I looked at the video length of the youtube video and saw that it was an hour. I already knew it was 3-0. Bisu vs. Flash. Thank God!!!!!!!!!!! Bisu looks so damn scary right now. Dude, you never check the video length, it's just a big fucking spoiler! | ||
dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
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VioleTAK
Israel4279 Posts
On October 25 2017 04:26 dRaW wrote: Is there till the recommended vod thread somewhere? I want to catch the best games of ASL4. If you want to watch only the best games, just wait a little longer and you'll be able to watch Bisu take down Flash in a glorious 3-2 series, followed by an awesome 3-1 on Larva, that won't hold a candle to the semi-finals that finally took down God, but a good send-off of Bisu to the army. | ||
VioleTAK
Israel4279 Posts
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NonY
8716 Posts
On October 23 2017 21:59 Liquid`Drone wrote: There's an inbetween. One sunken and spore in each base would be a too significant investment, one that would make him fall too far behind. However, completely neglecting it did cost him any chance at the game. Like in the third game, he should have had one spore in the second base (the one where overlords can't travel too all that fast). Then he only needs to have enough hydras in that base to beat any impending dts, and he could have more overlords in his natural protected by a bigger swarm of hydra. So one spore+one sunken per base, that is too much. However, say, one spore and one additional hydra in his second natural, that actually would have stopped the harassment and made him enter the mid-game on pretty equal footing. In addition to this, we have to keep in mind that having a predictable conservative response to a particular threat is not a viable way to win tournaments. That simplifies the meta game for your opponent far too much. If Bisu is prepared to go Sair/DT every game and in game 3 he encounters this overreaction, then in game 4 he can present the same threat but not actually commit to it as much (which is not a very tricky adjustment to make for him). So in the end, while you may want to mix in a really conservative play if you are very sure your opponent will do an aggressive play, you still have to be unpredictable. If you don't have a build prepared, then your attempt will probably not be as optimal as you hoped, and you're better off playing the way you practiced. It is very difficult to improvise in the middle of a series at this level of play. Of course he encountered corsair/DT in practice and I'm sure he won many games against it, but in this series he fell short. It is reasonable to assume he didn't practice static defense builds at all. Whereas the protoss build and how much commitment there is to aggression is much more fluid, more easily adjusted game-to-game and even moment-to-moment. | ||
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