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On December 20 2007 08:49 IaniAniaN wrote: Yellow vs Sheis should be nice, hopefully it gets to that.
No more terrans allowed.
Go Yarnc and SangHo!
Of course, I fully support Yellow to own it up. From what I've seen Yellow is really good, why does he have such a hard time in individual leagues? I haven't heard anything about him qualifying for osl/msl asides from eliminating Sea once.
On December 20 2007 08:49 IaniAniaN wrote: Yellow vs Sheis should be nice, hopefully it gets to that.
No more terrans allowed.
Go Yarnc and SangHo!
Of course, I fully support Yellow to own it up. From what I've seen Yellow is really good, why does he have such a hard time in individual leagues? I haven't heard anything about him qualifying for osl/msl asides from eliminating Sea once.
Well, he was in this past MSL, Pringles 2 MSL, Shinhan 2006-1 OSL, and Shinhan 2006-3 OSL, which was enough for him to make Shinhan PreMasters (won through two rounds each in the two OSLs). So that was a pretty strong presence in 2006.
On December 20 2007 11:04 HaXxorIzed wrote: Despite being a strong proponent of the 'no terrans allowed!' rule, I really want Sheis to progress here. His TvZ is an enjoyable watch.
too bad i would easily say sheis as the worst looking progamer ever, i'd easily put say...everyone else over him in terms of looks
but i'm sure his tvz is amazing. gonna watch a vod now.
On December 20 2007 11:04 HaXxorIzed wrote: Despite being a strong proponent of the 'no terrans allowed!' rule, I really want Sheis to progress here. His TvZ is an enjoyable watch.
too bad i would easily say sheis as the worst looking progamer ever, i'd easily put say...everyone else over him in terms of looks
but i'm sure his tvz is amazing. gonna watch a vod now.
yellow and skyhigh to advance!! GOGO
Nope, honors definitely belong to DarkElf in that one. Anyways, Sheis and Yellow to Advance
On December 20 2007 11:04 HaXxorIzed wrote: Despite being a strong proponent of the 'no terrans allowed!' rule, I really want Sheis to progress here. His TvZ is an enjoyable watch.
too bad i would easily say sheis as the worst looking progamer ever, i'd easily put say...everyone else over him in terms of looks
but i'm sure his tvz is amazing. gonna watch a vod now.
yellow and skyhigh to advance!! GOGO
Nope, honors definitely belong to DarkElf in that one. Anyways, Sheis and Yellow to Advance
Of course, I fully support YellOw to own it up. From what I've seen YellOw is really good, why does he have such a hard time in individual leagues? I haven't heard anything about him qualifying for osl/msl asides from eliminating Sea once.
Well, he was in this past MSL, Pringles 2 MSL, Shinhan 2006-1 OSL, and Shinhan 2006-3 OSL, which was Enough for him to make Shinhan PreMasters (won through two rounds each in the two OSLs). So that was a pretty strong presence in 2006.
Cool, I like his solid ZvT style, hopefully he can eliminate a few more Terrans. We can't have Jaedong doing all the work. It's a shame that there's such a lack of notable zergs lately, sAviOr and Jaedong, July if he's feeling up to it, are the only ones consistently making noise. One could argue Kwanro, but he needs a lot of work in my opinion, no where near close to the multytasking of say, Jaedong. Unfortunately none of them seem to have the finesse of sAviOr either. Hopefully someone will come up soon, too many solid Terrans.
Man, YarnC's play during 2006 or 2005, whenever he first appeared in the progaming scene, was so inspiring... this was before JD came into the spotlight and when Savior was nearing his prime... YarnC was a little zergling who hopped in and no one liked him at first because of his gay little copycat name, but then he plays some amazingly nice ZvT's. Ever since then I've always had my eye on this guy. Him and his brother too, who has been surprisingly just as good.
[QUOTE]On December 20 2007 13:01 alffla wrote: [QUOTE]On December 20 2007 12:31 Roffles wrote: [QUOTE]On December 20 2007 11:44 alffla wrote: [QUOTE]On December 20 2007 11:04 HaXxorIzed wrote: Despite being a strong proponent of the 'no terrans allowed!' rule, I really want Sheis to progress here. His TvZ is an enjoyable watch.[/QUOTE]
hmm.. I never really understood why the poll results show up in your face before you've even read the candidates. Should be in a spoiler. it's really a psychological thing at this point.
Of course, I fully support YellOw to own it up. From what I've seen YellOw is really good, why does he have such a hard time in individual leagues? I haven't heard anything about him qualifying for osl/msl asides from eliminating Sea once.
Well, he was in this past MSL, Pringles 2 MSL, Shinhan 2006-1 OSL, and Shinhan 2006-3 OSL, which was Enough for him to make Shinhan PreMasters (won through two rounds each in the two OSLs). So that was a pretty strong presence in 2006.
Cool, I like his solid ZvT style, hopefully he can eliminate a few more Terrans. We can't have Jaedong doing all the work. It's a shame that there's such a lack of notable zergs lately, sAviOr and Jaedong, July if he's feeling up to it, are the only ones consistently making noise. One could argue Kwanro, but he needs a lot of work in my opinion, no where near close to the multytasking of say, Jaedong. Unfortunately none of them seem to have the finesse of sAviOr either. Hopefully someone will come up soon, too many solid Terrans.
Yeh zerg do seem to becoming less in numbers and you could add GGPlay to that list.
Of course, I fully support YellOw to own it up. From what I've seen YellOw is really good, why does he have such a hard time in individual leagues? I haven't heard anything about him qualifying for osl/msl asides from eliminating Sea once.
Well, he was in this past MSL, Pringles 2 MSL, Shinhan 2006-1 OSL, and Shinhan 2006-3 OSL, which was Enough for him to make Shinhan PreMasters (won through two rounds each in the two OSLs). So that was a pretty strong presence in 2006.
Cool, I like his solid ZvT style, hopefully he can eliminate a few more Terrans. We can't have Jaedong doing all the work. It's a shame that there's such a lack of notable zergs lately, sAviOr and Jaedong, July if he's feeling up to it, are the only ones consistently making noise. One could argue Kwanro, but he needs a lot of work in my opinion, no where near close to the multytasking of say, Jaedong. Unfortunately none of them seem to have the finesse of sAviOr either. Hopefully someone will come up soon, too many solid Terrans.
Yeh zerg do seem to becoming less in numbers and you could add GGPlay to that list.
Other Zerg twin is pulling same weight lately GoRush wins on occasions too, Jy and HoGiL seem to be raising their hands in individual leagues, and 815, HyuN and Haran showing promise in proleague.
More promising then Protoss who can barely qualify for individual leagues this season with around 4 Protoss in ODT and only 4 in the next MSL atm:x
On December 20 2007 16:50 aZnvaLiaNce wrote: let's see.....sheis isn't terribly ugly, plus he's pretty damn solid as a T. darkelf, on the other hand, is a faggot and faggots are ugly, nuff said.
Yarnc microes up on the blocked ramp (3 scvs and 1 marine), killing marines that are popping out, harassing scvs. He also put up an expo at his nat. Skyhigh clears his base.
Skyhigh's army attack Yarnc's nat, BREAK THE SUNKS, kills some drones, but the mutas are falling back and the attack is repelled. Classic mutaharass going on now.
Yarnc is constantly reinforcing his mutalisks, kills the bunker at Skyhigh's nat choke with a mutaling attack, but loses all his lings in the process. His sneaky expo is up now.
Hive morphing, QUEEN for Yarnc. Mnm drop at Yarnc 9 expo, does not do any damage. Skyhigh ritually suicides some marines in the middle of the map to lurkers. Yarnc cathches another drop, and forces Skyhigh back to his bunkers with some overwhelming amount of lings with some lurks and mutas. Defiler mound up, Yarnc expoing at 7, he's in the commanding position.
Skyhigh was far too indecisive with his main army, too scared of stop-lurks and his vessel was too late, so he applied no pressure to Yarnc and let him mass up a huge 3 gas army. Kudos to Yarnc for recovering from the early sunken break though.
On December 20 2007 17:26 Nintu wrote: Yeah, Parasite+scourge into stop-lurker was art.
yeah and Yarnc was only able to do this because his muta harass actually KILLED a 1/3 built sci facility
he delayed SkyHigh's first vessel for so long, then killed it
another product of the extremely late vessels were no irradiate for defilers, but by then it was already over, Yarnc had a absurdly large army compared to Skyhigh
On December 20 2007 17:50 Hittegods wrote: Nice going there sheis, just ram your tanks into the carriers, they'll fall eventually, right? RIGHT?
i lol'ed very hard. Sheis is like bisu another Zerg killer but when it comes to other mu, they just fall down easily, but the difference is bisu's other MU has got some ray of hope =/
On December 20 2007 17:50 Hittegods wrote: Nice going there sheis, just ram your tanks into the carriers, they'll fall eventually, right? RIGHT?
i lol'ed very hard. Sheis is like bisu another Zerg killer but when it comes to other mu, they just fall down easily, but the difference is bisu's other MU has got some ray of hope =/
It's interesting how people go from "Bisu Bonjwa favorite against anyone in any matchup" to become "another Zerg killer that falls easy in other mu" just because he lost a tvp 3-1 and a pvp 3-0 in the MSL final/OSL semifinal...
On December 20 2007 17:50 Hittegods wrote: Nice going there sheis, just ram your tanks into the carriers, they'll fall eventually, right? RIGHT?
i lol'ed very hard. Sheis is like bisu another Zerg killer but when it comes to other mu, they just fall down easily, but the difference is bisu's other MU has got some ray of hope =/
clearly OSL semifinals against best PvP on the planet and MSL finals is exactly the same situation as Ever)T(Sheis, who has made exactly one MSL and exited unceremoniously in the round of 32. despite all this, you are obviously right, the only difference between them is Bisu's other MU has "got some ray of hope =/"
i can totally see the parallels you draw between these two very similar players, Bisu and Sheis, your breakthrough analysis is not only nuanced but worthy of the highest praise.
i mean... "strong versus zergs!!! weak versus everyone else!!!"
how does it get any better than that? have you considered applying to ESPN to be an analyst? they could use you.
On December 20 2007 17:50 Hittegods wrote: Nice going there sheis, just ram your tanks into the carriers, they'll fall eventually, right? RIGHT?
i lol'ed very hard. Sheis is like bisu another Zerg killer but when it comes to other mu, they just fall down easily, but the difference is bisu's other MU has got some ray of hope =/
clearly OSL semifinals against best PvP on the planet and MSL finals is exactly the same situation as Ever)T(Sheis, who has made exactly one MSL and exited unceremoniously in the round of 32. despite all this, you are obviously right, the only difference between them is Bisu's other MU has "got some ray of hope =/"
i can totally see the parallels you draw between these two very similar players, Bisu and Sheis, your breakthrough analysis is not only nuanced but worthy of the highest praise.
i mean... "strong versus zergs!!! weak versus everyone else!!!"
how does it get any better than that? have you considered applying to ESPN to be an analyst? they could use you.
On December 20 2007 17:50 Hittegods wrote: Nice going there sheis, just ram your tanks into the carriers, they'll fall eventually, right? RIGHT?
i lol'ed very hard. Sheis is like bisu another Zerg killer but when it comes to other mu, they just fall down easily, but the difference is bisu's other MU has got some ray of hope =/
clearly OSL semifinals against best PvP on the planet and MSL finals is exactly the same situation as Ever)T(Sheis, who has made exactly one MSL and exited unceremoniously in the round of 32. despite all this, you are obviously right, the only difference between them is Bisu's other MU has "got some ray of hope =/"
i can totally see the parallels you draw between these two very similar players, Bisu and Sheis, your breakthrough analysis is not only nuanced but worthy of the highest praise.
i mean... "strong versus zergs!!! weak versus everyone else!!!"
how does it get any better than that? have you considered applying to ESPN to be an analyst? they could use you.
just read him as "he's a zerg killer as Bisu. But he sucks in another MUs"
On December 20 2007 17:50 Hittegods wrote: Nice going there sheis, just ram your tanks into the carriers, they'll fall eventually, right? RIGHT?
i lol'ed very hard. Sheis is like bisu another Zerg killer but when it comes to other mu, they just fall down easily, but the difference is bisu's other MU has got some ray of hope =/
clearly OSL semifinals against best PvP on the planet and MSL finals is exactly the same situation as Ever)T(Sheis, who has made exactly one MSL and exited unceremoniously in the round of 32. despite all this, you are obviously right, the only difference between them is Bisu's other MU has "got some ray of hope =/"
i can totally see the parallels you draw between these two very similar players, Bisu and Sheis, your breakthrough analysis is not only nuanced but worthy of the highest praise.
i mean... "strong versus zergs!!! weak versus everyone else!!!"
how does it get any better than that? have you considered applying to ESPN to be an analyst? they could use you.
I love how everyone thinks that Bisu's weak matchups make him vulnerable to the entire race, I mean in those matchups, he's only at a disadvantage against other S-Class players (and only a slight one at that). He's miles above 90% of those S-Class players in his best matchups anyways, show me a single P asides from Stork that could have pulled off what he did. Or another P who could have beaten Stork on that fateful MSL final.
On December 20 2007 18:21 IaniAniaN wrote:Or another P who could have beaten Stork on that fateful OSL semifinal.
;p
On December 20 2007 18:23 Bazse wrote: LINGS LINGS LINGS. Is it embarassing if you get owned by the cheapest units in the game? :D
Actually, upgraded cracklings are pretty scary and I wouldn't find it embarrassing for any toss to lose against them. Now I ain't watching the game so I don't know if Yarnc's lings are on steroids or upgraded...
On December 20 2007 17:50 Hittegods wrote: Nice going there sheis, just ram your tanks into the carriers, they'll fall eventually, right? RIGHT?
i lol'ed very hard. Sheis is like bisu another Zerg killer but when it comes to other mu, they just fall down easily, but the difference is bisu's other MU has got some ray of hope =/
clearly OSL semifinals against best PvP on the planet and MSL finals is exactly the same situation as Ever)T(Sheis, who has made exactly one MSL and exited unceremoniously in the round of 32. despite all this, you are obviously right, the only difference between them is Bisu's other MU has "got some ray of hope =/"
i can totally see the parallels you draw between these two very similar players, Bisu and Sheis, your breakthrough analysis is not only nuanced but worthy of the highest praise.
i mean... "strong versus zergs!!! weak versus everyone else!!!"
how does it get any better than that? have you considered applying to ESPN to be an analyst? they could use you.
OkOk i never state it clearly, Bisu's other MU is seriously better than alot others but it is dwarfed by his PvZ. For Sheis, his TvT is actually alright because he has been playing against great players, his TvZ is really a killer, like a comparison to Bisu, but his TvP is really.... just below average imo.
On-topic : Nice play by yarnc, his drops really hurt Sangho very badly especially destroying the nexus 2 times =/. Now for Sangho to take out Skyhigh/Sheis and advance !
true true, I honestly can't think of another P that would have gotten demolished so pathetically as bisu did against stork 0-3 not even close, no offense to his fans. =)
Stork is strong in PvP, strong in PvT, weak in PvZ. after using bisu build, stork is Strong in PvP, strong in PvT, strong in PvZ.
Bisu is weak in PvP, weak in PvT, strong in PvZ. though i don't see his pvz strength lasting all that long, you can see hints of it.
On December 20 2007 17:50 Hittegods wrote: Nice going there sheis, just ram your tanks into the carriers, they'll fall eventually, right? RIGHT?
i lol'ed very hard. Sheis is like bisu another Zerg killer but when it comes to other mu, they just fall down easily, but the difference is bisu's other MU has got some ray of hope =/
clearly OSL semifinals against best PvP on the planet and MSL finals is exactly the same situation as Ever)T(Sheis, who has made exactly one MSL and exited unceremoniously in the round of 32. despite all this, you are obviously right, the only difference between them is Bisu's other MU has "got some ray of hope =/"
i can totally see the parallels you draw between these two very similar players, Bisu and Sheis, your breakthrough analysis is not only nuanced but worthy of the highest praise.
i mean... "strong versus zergs!!! weak versus everyone else!!!"
how does it get any better than that? have you considered applying to ESPN to be an analyst? they could use you.
OkOk i never state it clearly, Bisu's other MU is seriously better than alot others but it is dwarfed by his PvZ. For Sheis, his TvT is actually alright because he has been playing against great players, his TvZ is really a killer, like a comparison to Bisu, but his TvP is really.... just below average imo.
On-topic : Nice play by yarnc, his drops really hurt Sangho very badly especially destroying the nexus 2 times =/. Now for Sangho to take out Skyhigh/Sheis and advance !
except that none of Bisu's matchups are even close to "below average"
Sheis vs. P sucks horribly, while Bisu vs P and vs T are way above average. He's the second or third best in PvT and PvP as well.
On December 20 2007 17:50 Hittegods wrote: Nice going there sheis, just ram your tanks into the carriers, they'll fall eventually, right? RIGHT?
i lol'ed very hard. Sheis is like bisu another Zerg killer but when it comes to other mu, they just fall down easily, but the difference is bisu's other MU has got some ray of hope =/
clearly OSL semifinals against best PvP on the planet and MSL finals is exactly the same situation as Ever)T(Sheis, who has made exactly one MSL and exited unceremoniously in the round of 32. despite all this, you are obviously right, the only difference between them is Bisu's other MU has "got some ray of hope =/"
i can totally see the parallels you draw between these two very similar players, Bisu and Sheis, your breakthrough analysis is not only nuanced but worthy of the highest praise.
i mean... "strong versus zergs!!! weak versus everyone else!!!"
how does it get any better than that? have you considered applying to ESPN to be an analyst? they could use you.
OkOk i never state it clearly, Bisu's other MU is seriously better than alot others but it is dwarfed by his PvZ. For Sheis, his TvT is actually alright because he has been playing against great players, his TvZ is really a killer, like a comparison to Bisu, but his TvP is really.... just below average imo.
On-topic : Nice play by yarnc, his drops really hurt Sangho very badly especially destroying the nexus 2 times =/. Now for Sangho to take out Skyhigh/Sheis and advance !
Asides from the MSL Finals, when was the last time you saw Bisu play a PvT that just hurt to watch? He's so good, I doubt you've even watched any of the games.
On December 20 2007 18:31 game.no wrote: true true, I honestly can't think of another P that would have gotten demolished so pathetically as bisu did against stork 0-3 not even close, no offense to his fans. =)
Stork is strong in PvP, strong in PvT, weak in PvZ. after using bisu build, stork is Strong in PvP, strong in PvT, strong in PvZ.
Bisu is weak in PvP, weak in PvT, strong in PvZ. though i don't see his pvz strength lasting all that long, you can see hints of it.
you are just very biased against Bisu
yes, his PvP and PvT are inferior to his PvZ, but his PvP/PvT is still among the best out of all Protoss other than Stork
so if you think Bisu's PvP and PvT are "weak" then every single Protoss is weak other than Stork, and that can't be the case
plus, i don't see why you think Stork's PvZ is suddenly "strong" now
Edit: And... I just checked your post history, this is a good gem:
On December 19 2007 22:03 game.no wrote: nobody is saying bisu is a god.
he's actually below average player. the only place where he's remotely decent is pvz and that won't last very long. his pvp sucks, his pvt sucks. if you disagree you're a idiot.
2 MSL wins, 1 runner up, 1 top 4 is not "below average." Having the best PvZ ever out of anyone in the history of Brood War is better than "decent." Beating Stork in MSL finals and Hwasin in Ro16 means your PvP and PvT do not "suck."
On December 20 2007 18:36 Naib wrote: Hot_Bid, I must recite my post from another topic to plead you not to argue against game.no, it doesn't help. Many have tried, fallen they have!
No, seriously, that guy has some issues and is selectively blind - sees only what he wants to.
His religion is to be anti-bisu.
EDIT: Maybe a mod could change all his posts to: bisu build Then his opinions might be interesting.
On December 20 2007 18:31 game.no wrote: true true, I honestly can't think of another P that would have gotten demolished so pathetically as bisu did against stork 0-3 not even close, no offense to his fans. =)
Stork is strong in PvP, strong in PvT, weak in PvZ. after using bisu build, stork is Strong in PvP, strong in PvT, strong in PvZ.
Bisu is weak in PvP, weak in PvT, strong in PvZ. though i don't see his pvz strength lasting all that long, you can see hints of it.
you are just very biased against Bisu
yes, his PvP and PvT are inferior to his PvZ, but his PvP/PvT is still among the best out of all Protoss other than Stork
so if you think Bisu's PvP and PvT are "weak" then every single Protoss is weak other than Stork, and that can't be the case
plus, i don't see why you think Stork's PvZ is suddenly "strong" now
that doesn't make his pvp/pvt good. he's known for his pvz and if he's matched up with anything else, pvp or pvt, there's a high chance that he'll lose. Or pull off very lucky wins, we've seen this so many times with his recent matches.
2 MSL wins, 1 runner up, 1 top 4 is not "below average." Having the best PvZ ever out of anyone in the history of Brood War is better than "decent." Beating Stork in MSL finals and Hwasin in Ro16 means your PvP and PvT do not "suck."
It's really easy to ignore the matches where he gets absolutely demolished and say he's good. hiya vs bisu, stork vs bisu, mind vs bisu, free vs bisu. And not lose where you just fluff it off, but lose in the sense where you think "hmm, is he supposed to be good?" If he gets paired with a lot of zergs, he'll probably go very far in the series. Once his pvz falls, he won't be able to catch up.
Well my stream was down, and couldn't watch - came back @ the end though. Sheis eventually took like 4+ expos after identical mirror builds (1 marine, then 1 vult into 2 fact while FE for both players) and raped sKyHigh with superior skill, I guess.
So SangHo vs Sheis rematch for the 2nd spot coming up
okay basic game recap of sheis vs skyhigh: both players go 1fac cc
skyhigh opts for a faster tank/gol/dropship while sheis sticks with vulture/tank into mid game
good vulture harras does serious damage to skyhigh's economy, while skyhigh doesn't do much against sheis. With both players camped on either side of the valley, sheis suddenly pushes foward (he's been doing a tvp style slow push, except without the turrets) long story short sheis's better tank count wins him battles and he gains ground onto skyhigh's side of the valley. skyhigh attempts drops which do squat because vultures always show up to deal with the problem. sheis might lose 3 vultures for every attacking unit, but he still saves his economy.
Skyhigh's weaker econ allows sheis to get fortified positions with heavy tank numbers while doing damage to skyhigh's attempts to expo.
throught the game, skyhigh has been very careless with his scvs, using them to attack harassers instead of just maynarding out. in the first harass, he loses upwards of 8 scvs this way.
it pretty much goes downhill when sheis gets his 8 dropships and uses them around the map to good effect
sheis gets into skyhigh's base via 2inch drop from the 12.30 ish expansion
Ooops, Sangho is contained now. Cutely running his free army to mines now. If Sheis can save his cc at the bottom left, then he will be in a good position. Never mind, he couldn't.
On December 20 2007 19:21 Bazse wrote: Ooops, Sangho is contained now. Cutely running his free army to mines now. If Sheis can save his cc at the bottom left, then he will be in a good position. Never mind, he couldn't.
Bottom right.
Sheis has a faltering eco, but SangHo is contained at his nat choke, so even with superior macro he can't break out yet, he needs, and desperately tries to gain ground there.
Sheis didn't mine up the only place he needed to - his newly rebuilt bottom right expo 4 DTs and a HT drop rapes most stuff there, now it SHOULD be over.
I think what happened was that Sheis realized that he's winning and thought: "OMG, i am winning against a toss, this cannot be", so he comfortably let Sangho's expo at 12 running while carefully undermining his tankline.
Well done by SangHo, nice decisions / multitask throughout the game made him come back, although his micro was sloppy at times. He kept his cool while the terran forces knocked on his door, that was the key, imo.
1. mine bottom right correctly 2. build a starport and get a DS for 12 and wriath for the templar shuttle 3. take the mineral only that is protected by his push... WHY DIDN'T HE TAKE THIS??
seriously, why take a far expo thats like 10x more difficult to defend over one that your tanks fully cover? yes it doesn't have gas but he never built gas at bottom right anyway
On December 20 2007 19:35 Hot_Bid wrote: Sheis needed to
1. mine bottom right correctly 2. build a starport and get a DS for 12 and wriath for the templar shuttle 3. take the mineral only that is protected by his push... WHY DIDN'T HE TAKE THIS??
seriously, why take a far expo thats like 10x more difficult to defend over one that your tanks fully cover? yes it doesn't have gas but he never built gas at bottom right anyway
1. I agree. 2. Or just attack it with a tank or so. 3. I think the min only between those 2 positions is stormable from Sangho's base, maybe not, i was thinking about the same thing though.