Jaedong vs Calm Both Players do Fast expand but Calm hide his 6 lings... somehow JD with good drone micro only lost 2 drones and snipes Calm's drones with just 2 lings, Calm goes for a ling attack before the mutas but with micro again JD doenst lose anything... after a muta battle with a lot of scourges of Calm he just get owned by JD superior muta micro. Jaedong vs Calm Calm does a overpool and JD opens with 12 Pool/gas, JD takes the expo but he isnt mining gas (just got ling speed and Lair upgrade), Calm do a 2nd hatch on his main and start producing lings. JD goes for Spore colony to secure his nat/main, calm get his mutas and go for the attack with muta/lings with more zerlings than JD and with better micro (help from his muta to) he destroys the spores of JD's nat and then proced to attack with lings the JD's Spire. JD got 3 mutas and 2 pair of scourges, he goes for Drone snipe but he is intercepted by Calm's mutas... GG Calm wins Jaedong vs Calm Jaedong goes 9 pool and Calm 9 gas 9 pool (or something like that), JD gets ling speed and stop mining gas... he goes for early ling presure but with good defence and with the help of a sunken calm hold it, Calm get his lair faster than JD and start his spire, with that timing advantage he gets 6 scourges and send them to JD main... JD's mutas pop and he lose 2 to the scourges... then both players start to build mutas. JD expands and Calm start his +1 Attack upgrade... when the +1 Attack finish he attacks JD nat, big muta fight with Calm winning... JD loses all of his mutas and then GG. Jaedong vs Calm To tired to write but it was like the 3rd game... calm gets +1 attack and rapes JD mutas. Jaedong vs Calm GG Calm wins 3-1 and goes to the MSL Finals against the winner of Kwanro/Iris LOL at my predictions >.< INB4 JD Slump threads
Jaedong vs Calm Jaedong goes 9 pool and Calm 9 gas 9 pool (or something like that), JD gets ling speed and stop mining gas... he goes for early ling presure but with good defence and with the help of a sunken calm hold it, Calm get his lair faster than JD and start his spire, with that timing advantage he gets 6 scourges and send them to JD main... JD's mutas pop and he lose 2 to the scourges... then both players start to build mutas. JD expands and Calm start his +1 Attack upgrade... when the +1 Attack finish he attacks JD nat, big muta fight with Calm winning... JD loses all of his mutas and then GG.
Hm, when it comes down to it, I think Jaedong will give a higher priority to his match tomorrow, because it's OSL and because it's Fantasy. Nevertheless I think he's get what it takes to do this. + Show Spoiler +
Also, a win today would certainly boost his confidence after that horrible last WE.
Yeah, if Calm doesn't pull off some really sneaky and creative stuff I guess Jaedong will take it 3-0. As someone already wrote in a newspost: You don't forget how to play ZvZ overnight
I have a feeling this is either going to be an extreme humiliation of Calm, or a complete breakdown of JD.
He's either going to lay down some serious anger from last week's disaster and take it all out on Calm as a mental warmup for tomorrow, or he's going to just lose confidence and fall apart. Considering his ZvZ record, I think the former is much much more likely.
If anything I think his lost to Fantasy made him train harder.
But he runs the risk of exhausting himself. Players like Flash, Leta, Bisu are all resting to a certain degree now, while Jaedong will not have off season break. This will sure catch up with him in the coming weeks/months.
Calm is absolutely capable of taking a game off Jaedong, but winning a BO5? ...I have immense faith in Calm, but this is pretty much the worst spot he could ever find himself in.
Worst case Scenario for me: JD practices solely for tommorow's game banking on his JvZ to get him past Calm. Calm manages to pull an upset (Which I think he is capable of doing) and Jaedong loses to Fantasy tomorrow anyway due to some magnificent builds/cheeses.
Honestly, as long as Jaedong just varies his builds, I don't see Calm take this.
Calm's ZvZ mechanics is very average. And Jaedong really should just use overpool/12 pool type safe builds and just rely on superior skills. Why Jaedong would ever use 12 hatch against anyone but the top ZvZers I just don't understand.
On August 13 2009 18:58 FireGuyX wrote: Calm against wasted a perfectly good offense attacking Jaedong's natural. Idiot should of attacked Jaedong's expansion. He paid the price, GG.
You mean JD's main? Isnt the expo he took called the natural?
On August 13 2009 18:58 FireGuyX wrote: Calm against wasted a perfectly good offense attacking Jaedong's natural. Idiot should of attacked Jaedong's expansion. He paid the price, GG.
Calm had the game when his first offense was at Jaedong's natural, but instead split his units to attack both the expansion and the natural, dumb mistake that was.
Guys if you are so smart and skilled, why don't you go to Korea and beat pros? Don't give tips to professional players, you suck at Starcraft and know nothing.
On August 13 2009 19:01 sAw wrote: Guys if you are so smart and skilled, why don't you go to Korea and beat pros? Don't give tips to professional players, you suck at Starcraft and know nothing.
Seriously, like a bunch of Jon Snows up in this thread.
On August 13 2009 19:01 sAw wrote: Guys if you are so smart and skilled, why don't you go to Korea and beat pros? Don't give tips to professional players, you suck at Starcraft and know nothing.
I'm just analyzying, all of us are, were not pros obviously. I have respect for both players, although I'm a bit biased against Jaedong.
On August 13 2009 19:00 FireGuyX wrote: Calm had the game when his first offense was at Jaedong's natural, but instead split his units to attack both the expansion and the natural, dumb mistake that was.
So he split his forces to attack both the natural and the natural?
On August 13 2009 19:00 FireGuyX wrote: Calm had the game when his first offense was at Jaedong's natural, but instead split his units to attack both the expansion and the natural, dumb mistake that was.
So he split his forces to attack both the natural and the natural?
oops I meant his natural expansion and his natural base.
On August 13 2009 19:01 sAw wrote: Guys if you are so smart and skilled, why don't you go to Korea and beat pros? Don't give tips to professional players, you suck at Starcraft and know nothing.
Well its not that they are giving tips, they are just stating their opinions :/. Most of the time, any player that observes can find mistakes that the player that is playing cannot see even if they were progamers.
On August 13 2009 19:00 FireGuyX wrote: Calm had the game when his first offense was at Jaedong's natural, but instead split his units to attack both the expansion and the natural, dumb mistake that was.
So he split his forces to attack both the natural and the natural?
oops I meant his natural expansion and his natural base.
I think you need to do a little bit of research on the terminology... But anyway, I predict Jaedong to win 3-0. Seems like he's well on his way there.
On August 13 2009 19:00 FireGuyX wrote: Calm had the game when his first offense was at Jaedong's natural, but instead split his units to attack both the expansion and the natural, dumb mistake that was.
So he split his forces to attack both the natural and the natural?
I think Calm had enough lings to kill the nat hatch on his second attack.
On August 13 2009 19:00 FireGuyX wrote: Calm had the game when his first offense was at Jaedong's natural, but instead split his units to attack both the expansion and the natural, dumb mistake that was.
So he split his forces to attack both the natural and the natural?
oops I meant his natural expansion and his natural base.
On August 13 2009 19:01 sAw wrote: Guys if you are so smart and skilled, why don't you go to Korea and beat pros? Don't give tips to professional players, you suck at Starcraft and know nothing.
What do you recommend then? That we stop trying to identify what players did wrong? Just watch without wondering what the fuck is going on?
Are you able to beat every player in this thread right now who "suck at Starcraft and know nothing" in Bo5s then?
On August 13 2009 19:01 sAw wrote: Guys if you are so smart and skilled, why don't you go to Korea and beat pros? Don't give tips to professional players, you suck at Starcraft and know nothing.
What do you recommend then? That we stop trying to identify what players did wrong? Just watch without wondering what the fuck is going on?
Are you able to beat every player in this thread right now who "suck at Starcraft and know nothing" in Bo5s then?
I said that to those few guys which said "idiot should have done this/that".
On August 13 2009 19:01 sAw wrote: Guys if you are so smart and skilled, why don't you go to Korea and beat pros? Don't give tips to professional players, you suck at Starcraft and know nothing.
What do you recommend then? That we stop trying to identify what players did wrong? Just watch without wondering what the fuck is going on?
Are you able to beat every player in this thread right now who "suck at Starcraft and know nothing" in Bo5s then?
I said that to those few guys which said "idiot should have done this/that".
I didn't mean they were dumb, obviously they're not dumb, I'm really rooting for Calm
On August 13 2009 19:01 sAw wrote: Guys if you are so smart and skilled, why don't you go to Korea and beat pros? Don't give tips to professional players, you suck at Starcraft and know nothing.
What do you recommend then? That we stop trying to identify what players did wrong? Just watch without wondering what the fuck is going on?
Are you able to beat every player in this thread right now who "suck at Starcraft and know nothing" in Bo5s then?
I said that to those few guys which said "idiot should have done this/that".
Please clarify that in your first post, not your defense. Thanks.
On August 13 2009 19:14 dl2agon wrote: JD underestimating the enemy
What? It was the correct response.
What do you mean? Pretty sure he knew there was a shitload of lings, but didnt throw down any sort of ground defense, with the exception of the 4 drones.
4 spores that early was excessive, Calm could and did only hatch 3-4 muta immediately meaning 1 spore per base would have been adequate to start, adding another at each base shortly after. That is why Jaedong couldn't hold off the lings despite having an earlier 2nd hatch.
Like what was that? He got speed before lair, and didn't do anything with his 2 v 1 hatch advantage? Why get speed, then? And then he kept making drones although he saw his opponent had more lings than him when he was on top of the ramp.
What's up with jaedong immortal 80% ZvZ? I mean he's still awesome but this worries me. Seems he hasn't got the power to just control every single aspect of the game. He often gets soo greedy and loses.
Calm is a very strategic and smart player, glad to see him taking this game. He outplayed Jaedong totally. And honestly speaking it was the first time I saw JD with 2 spores and a sunken in his main in a ZvZ game :D
On August 13 2009 19:17 CoL_DarkstaR wrote: What's up with jaedong immortal 80% ZvZ? I mean he's still awesome but this worries me. Seems he hasn't got the power to just control every single aspect of the game. He often gets soo greedy and loses.
Maybe after the first game he thought Calm was ez. And the fact that on Byzantium III there is a high chance of two players being placed at two opposite corners --> you can always go for eco first ...
On August 13 2009 19:17 CoL_DarkstaR wrote: What's up with jaedong immortal 80% ZvZ? I mean he's still awesome but this worries me. Seems he hasn't got the power to just control every single aspect of the game. He often gets soo greedy and loses.
Maybe after the first game he thought Calm was ez. And the fact that on Byzantium III there is a high chance of two players being placed at two opposite corners --> you can always go for eco first ...
JD's ling control in the deciding battle was uncharacteristically bad. He created a bottleneck by putting his evo there yet it was Calm who was the one taking advantage of it.
On August 13 2009 19:18 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: People should give Calm more credit, he played very very well. It wasn't "JD screwed up so he lost," it was "Calm outplayed JD."
Calm outplayed JD by making him go too greedy or what? JD lost cause he made 2 spores instead of 1spore+sunken and because he used his 2hatch advantage to only pump drones
At some point during the past two or three months, ZvZ improbably evolved as a matchup. Newer stars like Effort and Calm have helped jump start the matchup and all of a sudden Jaedong is no longer invincible.
You can sense it by the way players play against JD now ... they no longer play like they already lost (see the Hyuk game in PL finals, a game that we would have expected Jaedong's opponent to blow in the past).
JD's still the best ZvZ player for sure, but the gap has closed. I'm willing to bet he never hits 80% ZvZ ever again.
Hopefully Jaedong will realise that looking after himself rather than training for god knows how many hours a day might help his performance... Just from the way he looks you can tell he's in no state to perform at the very high level he can.
On August 13 2009 19:30 DoX.) wrote: oh my god Jaedong looks...vunerable
he looks tired.
He always looks tired, he's been looking tired for I don't know how long. I think that's just the way he looks when he loses, it's probably him thinking about the next match.
On August 13 2009 19:32 jello24 wrote: wow JD lost a muta battle... i give up on this now... hope he takes fantasy tomorrow although that's looking weak now...
On August 13 2009 19:35 nayumi wrote: lol JD is throwing this MSL away and put his 100% effort on taking a revenging against fantasy and being the 2nd person to win 2 OSL back-to-back ...
On August 13 2009 19:35 nayumi wrote: lol JD is throwing this MSL away and put his 100% effort on taking a revenging against fantasy and being the 2nd person to win 2 OSL back-to-back ...
On August 13 2009 19:32 jello24 wrote: wow JD lost a muta battle... i give up on this now... hope he takes fantasy tomorrow although that's looking weak now...
You're such a shitty "fan" it's ridiculous
I bet when JD was down 0-2 vs fantasy in OSL you also were like "Ah fuck this, JD has no chance"
On August 13 2009 19:35 nayumi wrote: lol JD is throwing this MSL away and put his 100% effort on taking a revenging against fantasy and being the 2nd person to win 2 OSL back-to-back ...
haha, not even close
I do think he wants the OSL more though
I ninja-edited my typo ... but apparently I wasn't fast enough
JD didnt lose a muta battle ...Calm was +1 attack and he perfectly timed 4 scourge to kill 2 muta at start. If he wins muta battle vs that he would have 100% win rate not 80% zvz
On August 13 2009 19:35 nayumi wrote: lol JD is throwing this MSL away and put his 100% effort on taking a revenging against fantasy and being the 2nd person to win 2 OSL back-to-back ...
Well... no. But I guess it's reasonable to assume that he has almost solely been practicing for the OSL.
On August 13 2009 19:32 jello24 wrote: wow JD lost a muta battle... i give up on this now... hope he takes fantasy tomorrow although that's looking weak now...
You're such a shitty "fan" it's ridiculous
I bet when JD was down 0-2 vs fantasy in OSL you also were like "Ah fuck this, JD has no chance"
Oh man that was awesome. I still get goosebumps just thinking about it!
On August 13 2009 19:32 jello24 wrote: wow JD lost a muta battle... i give up on this now... hope he takes fantasy tomorrow although that's looking weak now...
You're such a shitty "fan" it's ridiculous
I bet when JD was down 0-2 vs fantasy in OSL you also were like "Ah fuck this, JD has no chance"
yeah man totally, which is what makes his win much, MUCH sweeter. if he comes back to win, it's sweet and unexpected. if he drops, i'm not disappointed.
the spore build has been strong for JD and he's been feeling out calm's counters all series, and he won the first game on the map 5, I think he's got at least a 50% chance to take this
not that i disagree, but only with lee jae dong is potentially being eliminated in the MSL semifinals while still active in the OSL semifinals considered slumping. few other players were active even in both quarterfinals
On August 13 2009 19:48 GTR wrote: calm is such a fucking smart player omg
if fantasy wins tommorow, it is proven that strategy > mechanics
Completely agreed. We had a period where Mechanics dominated strategy and now we're entering a new era where strategy is more important than mechanics (since we're all on the same level again)
On August 13 2009 19:50 Bifur wrote: Jaedong's bulid order was bad
No, Jaedongs build was perfect. Calm tricked him into making more drones than he should have hence he was always a few lings short and unable to defend his expansion properly.
On August 13 2009 19:53 Plexa wrote: +1 attack raping
aren't players usually suppose to go for +1 defense?
+1 Attack = you do 1, 0.33, 0.11 damage more per hit. +1 Carapace = you take 1, 1, 1 damage less per hit.
So carapace is still better, but it costs 50/50 more. Also, against a heavy scourge build +1 attack is better because the carapace doesn't matter against scourge.
holy shit !!!! Calm won ??? oh man ... Jaedong's ZvZ isnt that magic anymore .... thats sad but on the other hand i think that Calm deserved this win for his overall performance . JD still has OSL
I feel so sorry for Jaedong... Guy is a real champ, played every league, went far in each one.. And now he seems broken. Props to Calm tho, he played really well. Looks like his bottled up emotions surfaced.
On August 13 2009 19:56 o[twist] wrote: ok if jaedong loses v. fantasy we need to put him on suicide watch. seriously, i am fucking concerned about this kid.
+1 on this.
I think the only way for him to not enter a huuuuuge slump is if he beats fantasy.
I can't imagine him winning games constantly after loosing every single playoff game that matters.
I'm afraid that Jaedong might really be in a slump if he manages to lose to Fantasy tommorow. Jaedong should realize that practice efficiency is just as important as how much he practices. Sleeping less for practice might not have better results than if he sleep more and practice a bit less.
On August 13 2009 19:55 JohnBall wrote: Great series. Calm played very well. That +1 attack upgrade was genius.
Jaedong better win the OSL tomorrow or he would be entering a slump
Alternatively, he would be making it to the top 4 of both leagues, showing consistency and high level performance after carrying a Proleague team to 2nd place over 10 other teams in a year-long season.
On August 13 2009 19:48 GTR wrote: calm is such a fucking smart player omg
if fantasy wins tommorow, it is proven that strategy > mechanics
Completely agreed. We had a period where Mechanics dominated strategy and now we're entering a new era where strategy is more important than mechanics (since we're all on the same level again)
I agree too, and I look forward to it because I find strategy so much more exciting. It's also an area where shit players like me can emulate the pros more. It should make it all a lot more fun to watch.
However, I am not necessarily agreeing that Calm is smart, as I really don't think you can take much out of ZvZ games and I have not seen other MUs by Calm. Luck or risky play can come off as intelligence in ZvZ, more than any other MU imo, so it is more consistency to me that says someone is gifted in that department.
One concern for a strat-oriented metagame is some top players that we have grown to love becoming obsolete. I know that's most likely an exaggeration because mechanics still play a huge part (well, mechanics of a certain level are par for the course just like size/strength is in rugby players or height/jumping is in basketballers) but you can't help thinking of how great entertainers like BoxeR and YellOw became somewhat obsolete when people learned how to macro.
Now instead of post-match analysis/discussion there will be 25 pages of fanboys wailing.
To contribute to the former and avoid the latter, Calm used some kind of hidden lings every game except for game 3 where he did stuck on 1 hatch and did a +1 timing attack. He had a nice shot at winning the first game too with that hidden ling maneuver but as with nearly every other game, he lost all his lings because he dove into the mineral line, probably while looking elsewhere (his multitasking was bad.).
It felt like in even situations Jaedong risked too much on reading Calm's ling/drone count and paid for it dearly, while in bad spots Jaedong didn't try to make many moves to regain a lead. In some games Calm was just good. In others, Jaedong not so good. Can't blame "slump" or broken mentality for all of this. Calm, at least for this MSL run, is not some ordinary Zerg.
However, I am not necessarily agreeing that Calm is smart, as I really don't think you can take much out of ZvZ games and I have not seen other MUs by Calm. Luck or risky play can come off as intelligence in ZvZ, more than any other MU imo, so it is more consistency to me that says someone is gifted in that department.
This is so wrong. You even said it yourself, you didn't see his other games. Go watch his other game ROFL.
On August 13 2009 20:00 Ver wrote: Boring Zerg down!
Now instead of post-match analysis/discussion there will be 25 pages of fanboys wailing.
To contribute to the former and avoid the latter, Calm used some kind of hidden lings every game except for game 3 where he did stuck on 1 hatch and did a +1 timing attack. He had a nice shot at winning the first game too with that hidden ling maneuver but as with nearly every other game, he lost all his lings because he dove into the mineral line, probably while looking elsewhere (his multitasking was bad.).
It felt like in even situations Jaedong risked too much on reading Calm's ling/drone count and paid for it dearly, while in bad spots Jaedong didn't try to make many moves to regain a lead. In some games Calm was just good. In others, Jaedong not so good. Can't blame "slump" or broken mentality for all of this. Calm, at least for this MSL run, is not some ordinary Zerg.
I'm really excited by Calm's play because it looks like ZvZ is about to get A LOT more strategical ... it's already gone from a matchup where you basically expected nothing interesting to happen to one where every game could be potentially very exciting. Now the possibility of +1 timing attack gambits and other plays makes it even better.
Anyone think if Jaedong stalled for +1 carapace from the start he might have had a chance? Or did he not have enough Drones to do that and still pump Mutas, I don't really know ZvZ.
Anyone how can anyone hate JD? This guy is a true monster - welcome to Flashville, population you and Flash. Not even the monster Jaedong could overcome what appears to be a nearly impossible hurdle to overcome in the modern era - schedule overload.
However, I am not necessarily agreeing that Calm is smart, as I really don't think you can take much out of ZvZ games and I have not seen other MUs by Calm. Luck or risky play can come off as intelligence in ZvZ, more than any other MU imo, so it is more consistency to me that says someone is gifted in that department.
This is so wrong. You even said it yourself, you didn't see his other games. Go watch his other game ROFL.
If you're gonna be a dick about it and not read what I said properly then I'll be a dick too and say Calm really doesn't deserve an MSL, even less so than Luxury did, in fact.
However, I am not necessarily agreeing that Calm is smart, as I really don't think you can take much out of ZvZ games and I have not seen other MUs by Calm. Luck or risky play can come off as intelligence in ZvZ, more than any other MU imo, so it is more consistency to me that says someone is gifted in that department.
This is so wrong. You even said it yourself, you didn't see his other games. Go watch his other game ROFL.
If you're gonna be a dick about it and not read what I said properly then I'll be a dick too and say Calm really doesn't deserve an MSL, even less so than Luxury did, in fact.
No no no, your entire post was based off the premise that Calm is inconsistent and bad at his other MUs. He's not. And he wins his other MU's the exact same way he just won tonight, strategic play.
On August 13 2009 19:48 GTR wrote: calm is such a fucking smart player omg
if fantasy wins tommorow, it is proven that strategy+ mechanics > mechanics
you seriosly think fantasy has no mechanics at all ???.... cmon
I think he means that now that all players have to have a certain degree of mechanics to be competitive, the players showing clever strategies (or with good strategy coaches) are going to set themselves apart.
sucks that Jaedong basically lost in the first 5 minutes in like all the matches today
On Outsider, JD needed to do damage with 9p because 9p << Gas pool. As soon as JD ended up not doing any damage, he lost the game.
On Heartbreak, 12p expand vs 9p, ordinarily is ADV for 12p as long as you cancel your nat hatch asap and just keep pumping lings, block the choke, but I think JD got overconfident and delayed the move, so enemy lings got in, he had to pull drones, and he lost the game there.
On August 13 2009 20:06 cablesc wrote: Jaedong is going to get rolled if he brings this level of play vs Fantasy.
Fantasy Fighting.
I really don't understand posts like this. JD (with the possible exception of game 2) really didn't make any mistakes. Sure, he's not playing at 120% like he usually is, but he wasn't by any means bad today.
Jaedong will win, theres no other possible outcome. Even if he has just one sunken and a drone left vs a 200/200 T we will always assume he will win in the end!! Until the moment GG is typed, there's no question that his drone will own the whole T army. Got that?
However, I am not necessarily agreeing that Calm is smart, as I really don't think you can take much out of ZvZ games and I have not seen other MUs by Calm. Luck or risky play can come off as intelligence in ZvZ, more than any other MU imo, so it is more consistency to me that says someone is gifted in that department.
This is so wrong. You even said it yourself, you didn't see his other games. Go watch his other game ROFL.
If you're gonna be a dick about it and not read what I said properly then I'll be a dick too and say Calm really doesn't deserve an MSL, even less so than Luxury did, in fact.
No no no, your entire post was based off the premise that Calm is inconsistent and bad at his other MUs. He's not. And he wins his other MU's the exact same way he just won tonight, strategic play.
I think you misinterperated because that's not what I meant at all - perhaps I wasn't clear. What I was saying was that I agreed with everything Albury-boy said but have to take people's word for it that Calm is smart because I have only ever watched him play ZvZ (other than a couple other games that he lost anyway) and you can't really tell if a player is really clever in that matchup - hiding lings or getting +1 attack are like the only things you can do outside of the very norm and even terrible ZvZ players like HoeJJa will hide lings.
On August 13 2009 20:08 5unrise wrote: Jaedong will win, theres no other possible outcome. Even if he has just one sunken and a drone left vs a 200/200 T we will always assume he will win in the end!! Until the moment GG is typed, there's no question that his drone will own the whole T army. Got that?
On August 13 2009 20:08 5unrise wrote: Jaedong will win, theres no other possible outcome. Even if he has just one sunken and a drone left vs a 200/200 T we will always assume he will win in the end!! Until the moment GG is typed, there's no question that his drone will own the whole T army. Got that?
i think his mutas firing across the map is more believable than that...
On August 13 2009 20:08 5unrise wrote: Jaedong will win, theres no other possible outcome. Even if he has just one sunken and a drone left vs a 200/200 T we will always assume he will win in the end!! Until the moment GG is typed, there's no question that his drone will own the whole T army. Got that?
Honestly I'm not sure if Iris caught a break or not with JD losing this.
But I'm going to assume that you gotta prefer to face Calm in the finals than a seasoned finals veteran like Jaedong, no matter what, especially when you yourself are an old veteran like Iris who has gone deep in leagues multiple times (and really really really should have won Daum).
On the other hand, if Kwanro makes it ... I can't imagine any scenario outside of Calm absolutely rolling him.
Iris will never ever get a better chance than this. He MUST seize this opportunity, because if he loses, not only will he almost certainly never make it this far again, but he'll also likely end up on the losing end of a THIRD incredible ZvT moment that partly (in the Savior game 5 Arkanoid case) or completely (in the GGPlay case) defined a career.
On August 13 2009 19:18 GTR wrote: JD getting the JD treatment here.
Calm for the next two.
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On August 13 2009 20:06 cablesc wrote: Jaedong is going to get rolled if he brings this level of play vs Fantasy.
Fantasy Fighting.
I really don't understand posts like this. JD (with the possible exception of game 2) really didn't make any mistakes. Sure, he's not playing at 120% like he usually is, but he wasn't by any means bad today.
Come on. Getting fooled by hidden lings a couple times. Getting owned twice by +1 Mutas. Even that first game that Jaedong won could have been had by Calm if he didn't split his ling forces.
JD hasn't played a "good" game since before the Pro League Finals. Think about it. Lost to Fantasy twice, despite being decidedly ahead in game one on Outsider (way ahead after Fantasy screwed up the sunken break). He lost to Hyuk on a greedy build order. And 4 games against Calm where JD was out-thought and out-maneuvered. Jaedong is 1-6 since he made the "Week of Jaedong" comment.
So yeah, I think he needs to play a lot better if he wants to get by a top-of-the-world Fantasy that has done nothing but focus, scheme, and practice for Jaedong for the past few days.
On August 13 2009 20:06 cablesc wrote: Jaedong is going to get rolled if he brings this level of play vs Fantasy.
Fantasy Fighting.
I really don't understand posts like this. JD (with the possible exception of game 2) really didn't make any mistakes. Sure, he's not playing at 120% like he usually is, but he wasn't by any means bad today.
Come on. Getting fooled by hidden lings a couple times. Getting owned twice by +1 Mutas. Even that first game that Jaedong won could have been had by Calm if he didn't split his ling forces.
JD hasn't played a "good" game since before the Pro League Finals. Think about it. Lost to Fantasy twice, despite being decidedly ahead in game one on Outsider (way ahead after Fantasy screwed up the sunken break). He lost to Hyuk on a greedy build order. And 4 games against Calm where JD was out-thought and out-maneuvered. Jaedong is 1-6 since he made the "Week of Jaedong" comment.
So yeah, I think he needs to play a lot better if he wants to get by a top-of-the-world Fantasy that has done nothing but focus, scheme, and practice for Jaedong for the past few days.
the one of the hottest ZvT'ers this season. It's gotta mean something. And besides Iris has been playing like a beast in all MU's recently. Rooting for the ol' veteran.
I still stand by the statement that if Jaedong practises solely for 1 league he would have demolished Calm and probably anybody . Better preparation = better results at this level , you can't expect JD to win every game especially when you have a second Bo5 the day after . You can't prepare for both equally , just raw skill wouldn't cut it . Calm's builds were very intelligent and well prepared for the specific map , while Jaedong's builds were plain ordinary , but i disagree with people claiming that Jaedong is just a mechanical player just look at his series against Canata game 2 and 3 were very well prepared and strategic games .
On August 13 2009 20:06 cablesc wrote: Jaedong is going to get rolled if he brings this level of play vs Fantasy.
Fantasy Fighting.
I really don't understand posts like this. JD (with the possible exception of game 2) really didn't make any mistakes. Sure, he's not playing at 120% like he usually is, but he wasn't by any means bad today.
Come on. Getting fooled by hidden lings a couple times. Getting owned twice by +1 Mutas. Even that first game that Jaedong won could have been had by Calm if he didn't split his ling forces.
JD hasn't played a "good" game since before the Pro League Finals. Think about it. Lost to Fantasy twice, despite being decidedly ahead in game one on Outsider (way ahead after Fantasy screwed up the sunken break). He lost to Hyuk on a greedy build order. And 4 games against Calm where JD was out-thought and out-maneuvered. Jaedong is 1-6 since he made the "Week of Jaedong" comment.
So yeah, I think he needs to play a lot better if he wants to get by a top-of-the-world Fantasy that has done nothing but focus, scheme, and practice for Jaedong for the past few days.
Week of JD was the week before PL finals.
If you read his quote, he clearly means than the "Week of Jaedong" refers to the Pro-league finals and the Round of 4 in the individual leagues:
The fans have been very worried about me. Since I have been playing many games in the proleague, they worried that I might carelessly leave out the individual leagues but since I have advanced, I will show my good form in the round of 4. Since the very important proleague is left, I will make this week the "Week of Jaedong".
Damn this makes things so complicated. I'm going to assume that Iris will win vs Kwanro(im sure almost everyone does). I want Iris to win this thing because he's like Leta, very good, but not good enough to win titles. Yes hes better than Leta, Bisu vs Iris proved that. Calm on the other hand, an MSL title will give his future a HUGE boost in confidence. Considering he defeated an emotionally drained JD and a stubborn Effort, I say he's the 3rd Zerg right now(behind JD and Yarnc ofcourse).
Bottom line: I can't choose between Calm and Iris. They're too likeable. Anyway, GL to them both.
Jaedong has obviously over-worked himself, and its showing. No way a 100% Jaedong would lose a Bo5 ZvZ. Ever. I suspect Fantasy will also roll him tomorrow. I just hope that Yarnac crushes Fantasy like a bug 3-0 in the finals. Just the comedy value in him one-upping his twin brother will be gold.
On August 13 2009 20:33 Ace wrote: Iris was always good enough to win titles - he just ALWAYS met some rabid Zerg that had 1 upped him at the most critical moment
everyone makes a big deal of the +1 "timing attack" ... but in both cases i feel like the result would of been the same with the extra muta or the +1 attack.
JD lost the last two games in the series in the first 5 minutes.
His 9pool didn't damage gaspool.
His 12pool expand got damaged by 9pool.
Against good players who know how to keep their leads, those disadvantages are insurmountable. It's just that JD has somehow always found a way to reverse the disadvantage. Except for today.
On August 13 2009 20:08 5unrise wrote: Jaedong will win, theres no other possible outcome. Even if he has just one sunken and a drone left vs a 200/200 T we will always assume he will win in the end!! Until the moment GG is typed, there's no question that his drone will own the whole T army. Got that?
No, the only thing I got was your hardcore fanboyism. We can all dream.
If Jaedong loses to Fantasy, we will have no choice but to call it a slump.
If he rapes Fantasy (if he wins, it has no other choice but to be a complete rape since he's probably so pissed right now) and wins the OSL... how can you call the OSL winner slumping?
On August 13 2009 20:26 Goragoth wrote: Jaedong has obviously over-worked himself, and its showing. No way a 100% Jaedong would lose a Bo5 ZvZ. Ever. I suspect Fantasy will also roll him tomorrow. I just hope that Yarnac crushes Fantasy like a bug 3-0 in the finals. Just the comedy value in him one-upping his twin brother will be gold.
If there's any way to rationalize Jaedong's loss here, it's that he was spending all his time practicing for his OSL match instead of his MSL match. They're a day apart, so he wouldn't really have time to concentrate on both, OSL is more prestigious, plus fantasy just 2-0ed him in the playoffs, so I'll bet the OSL match is much more important to him than this one. That, or he's really in a slump.
On August 13 2009 21:44 Gumbo wrote: If Jaedong loses to Fantasy, we will have no choice but to call it a slump.
If he rapes Fantasy (if he wins, it has no other choice but to be a complete rape since he's probably so pissed right now) and wins the OSL... how can you call the OSL winner slumping?
lol wtf u cant say jd losing to fantasy = slump thats like saying bisu losing to jd = bisu slumping -_-;
On August 13 2009 20:21 genryou wrote: Is Jaedong slumping? Or does the era of his domination has finally came to an end?
He isn't, he just had to prepare for a lot of different matchups and strats:
Last week of July/First week of August: Jaedong had to practice to play vs Canata (both MnM and mech, has been using wraiths a lot since PianO rediscovered them), vs ZerO (one of the most boring zergs ever), vs EffOrt's S class ZvZ and vs sKyHigh who is just on fire and is able to cheese you. Oh and vs a no-name zerg named Orion, but JD most likely didn't practice at all, since after winning Day 1 he just had to be ready for EffOrt and Skyhigh in the Ace matches.
Out of these games, JD lost set 4 of the MSL day 2 to Canata who just looked demoralized, and fell to Orion's mindgames because his head wasn't set for the game. Heck, he looked just like every Set 1 in a Bo3 JD has ever played, or like the recent sAviOr.
2nd week of August: OZ vs SKT T1 Grand Finals: JD had to practice for game 1 against fantasy, who is possibly the most hyped player due to being the "next" terran in the SKT legacy, and JD had to prepare to face either an Oov macro-oriented build, a BoxeR micro cheese OR fantasy's very own build, on a map which allowed just about anything including fast tech switches for terran (something that you rarely expect, and more rarely see since on big maps like God's Garden you can just scout the new expo and see if your opponent is focusing on gas or minerals).
After practicing so much against so many possible strats in only ONE match vs fantasy, I'd expect JD to have gone on a lighter practice schedule to tackle Hyuk on Day 2.
I mean, "getting Hyuk'd" has become a standard term to define failure and noobish mistakes, Jaedong was confident in his JvZ that he went for 12hatch, the build which would have allowed him to just run over Hyuk with his trademark muta harass.
Unfortunately, one of the SKT coaches guessed JD's strat, and watching the unmicroed lings sit at JD's nat just reminded me of MuMyung.
Taking the fact that JD would have been OZ's ace player, the OZ coaches most likely had him practice AGAIN vs fantasy OR vs Bisu, who are without the shadow of a doubt the number 2 and number 3-to-5 players in the world right now.
JD's spider senses were still resting from the Batoo OSL finals and he turned his ovie around just as it was about to scout fantasy's forward rax, thinking that he'd be facing a 1rax terran who was keeping his minerals possibly to expand at his mineral only to go heavy MnM later on, Jaedong did not expect the rush and fell to it.
If there is a flaw in JD's gameplay, other than he'd much rather go mass-whateverunithewasusing than switch tech, is that he sucks at rushing and fails even worse when he's being rushed. Something you'd just never expect from a micro-oriented aggressive zerg.
5 days (it was just 5 days, who would have thought?) after recovering from the losses and all the psychological pressure which ultimately didn't lead to success, JD had to face Calm, who seems to have finally bloomed in the last round of this PL season, has had plenty of time to go on a 2-week vacation and who since Luxury's slump has secured his spot as the number 3 ZvZ in the world. Or possibly number 2, since Calm DID actually beat EffOrt very recently, on the 23rd of July once and on the 30th twice, bringing their record against eachother to 3-1 in favor of the guy with the glasses.
And after studying all these different playstyles he'd have to face tomorrow JD will have to play fantasy, yet again...
I also belive JD have put all his focus on tomorrows game vs Fantasy.
Its simply impossible to preper for two different bo 5 series. Now hopefully, JD comes well prepared for the ZvT and it should be some epic games. Will he win, im not so sure. Jaedong have been pushed to the limit this season, and all his games might have been to much.
I hope not, and my heart is with Jaedong, but my money on Fantasy.
I'm really not even mad right now, did you see Jaedong's micro, absolutely flawless. Plus champions win the osl, if I gave a sh*t about the msl I'd be a bisu fan; this rough patch will all be forgotten when Jaedong wins his golden mouse (also, I like calm, 3rd favorite player) And --->r33k, did you just call Zero boring? wtf...
I didn't watch the games, and it might just be that JD didn't practice for this, but I think the days of JvZ are over. It seems the top Zergs have gotten too good (probably from studying JD's games) for JD to win despite being at a BO disadvantage any more. It's going to suck if ZvZ between the top Zergs gets more luck-based; I used to enjoy watching JD pull off crazy wins against everyone.
On August 13 2009 22:20 n.DieJokes wrote: I'm really not even mad right now, did you see Jaedong's micro, absolutely flawless. Plus champions win the osl, if I gave a sh*t about the msl I'd be a bisu fan; this rough patch will all be forgotten when Jaedong wins his golden mouse (also, I like calm, 3rd favorite player) And --->r33k, did you just call Zero boring? wtf...
lol sorry but i just can't stand watching Zero and by.hero unless it's a FPVOD of by.hero...
On August 13 2009 20:06 cablesc wrote: Jaedong is going to get rolled if he brings this level of play vs Fantasy.
Fantasy Fighting.
I really don't understand posts like this. JD (with the possible exception of game 2) really didn't make any mistakes. Sure, he's not playing at 120% like he usually is, but he wasn't by any means bad today.
Come on. Getting fooled by hidden lings a couple times. Getting owned twice by +1 Mutas. Even that first game that Jaedong won could have been had by Calm if he didn't split his ling forces.
JD hasn't played a "good" game since before the Pro League Finals. Think about it. Lost to Fantasy twice, despite being decidedly ahead in game one on Outsider (way ahead after Fantasy screwed up the sunken break). He lost to Hyuk on a greedy build order. And 4 games against Calm where JD was out-thought and out-maneuvered. Jaedong is 1-6 since he made the "Week of Jaedong" comment.
So yeah, I think he needs to play a lot better if he wants to get by a top-of-the-world Fantasy that has done nothing but focus, scheme, and practice for Jaedong for the past few days.
On August 13 2009 20:06 cablesc wrote: Jaedong is going to get rolled if he brings this level of play vs Fantasy.
Fantasy Fighting.
I really don't understand posts like this. JD (with the possible exception of game 2) really didn't make any mistakes. Sure, he's not playing at 120% like he usually is, but he wasn't by any means bad today.
Come on. Getting fooled by hidden lings a couple times. Getting owned twice by +1 Mutas. Even that first game that Jaedong won could have been had by Calm if he didn't split his ling forces.
JD hasn't played a "good" game since before the Pro League Finals. Think about it. Lost to Fantasy twice, despite being decidedly ahead in game one on Outsider (way ahead after Fantasy screwed up the sunken break). He lost to Hyuk on a greedy build order. And 4 games against Calm where JD was out-thought and out-maneuvered. Jaedong is 1-6 since he made the "Week of Jaedong" comment.
So yeah, I think he needs to play a lot better if he wants to get by a top-of-the-world Fantasy that has done nothing but focus, scheme, and practice for Jaedong for the past few days.
Jaedong was taking a page out of Bisu's "Let me boast about myself as arrogantly as I can" mentality, only he was boasting even more than Bisu, because he felt even more invincible than Bisu has ever felt.
Firebathero, in the last MSL, also said that he would be the one to throw Jaedong into a permanent slump. He got knocked out by Jaedong that very MSL.
Savior said, going into the GOMTV S1 Finals that Bisu's biggest mistake was choosing Protoss as a race.
As we can see from history, bragging about oneself too much is generally bad karma
On August 13 2009 22:43 niteReloaded wrote: Despite the fact that Jaedong was never officially bonjwa, the possibility of him entering a slump sure feels like another bonjwa stepping down.
There's no dispute that he was* the best player for God knows how many months now.
*just noticed I used past tense.. o_o
Like 3 or 4 months. Bisu was dominant for a far longer period of time in 2007, and nobody called him a bonjwa.
it's true that jaedong was not the undisputed #1 very often at all recently. still, people love to call slump on players that they hate for whatever reason. it's especially strange to see people hating on players that have elevated the game like jaedong, bisu, and flash. calm is obviously an innovative player and it's good to see something somewhat new in ZvZ.
looking through PR jaedong doesn't have as many #1 spots as you would think. he was, however, #1 or #2 behind flash (or sea lol) from january 2008 until november 2008, and taken as a whole he's been the dominant player of this year so far.
after tomorrow he'll have played at least 11 games against fantasy in 2009 lol
On August 13 2009 23:02 imperfect wrote: hmm im hoping JD lost because he was practicing mainly for the OSL.
as for Calm.. fighting~!
Yeah, that must be it.
From: (Milhouse: Oh! Oh! Oh! Bart! Bart! Bart! Over here! Over here! Bart: Uuum..... I'll take... Nelson Milhouse: Saving the best for last, huh Bart? Bart: Yeah, that must be it.)
Some of you Anti JD douches (cough* terrans *cough) need to stop rooting for Calm just because Calm is facing JD. Especially when some of you don't cheer for Calm for other matches. I myself actually root for Calm when he's facing other players
On August 13 2009 23:23 AzureEye wrote: Some of you Anti JD douches (cough* terrans *cough) need to stop rooting for Calm just because Calm is facing JD. Especially when some of you don't cheer for Calm for other matches. I myself actually root for Calm when he's facing other players
Why douches? I simpy do not like Jaedong same as I do not like sAviOr altough I'm a zerg player, I love NaDa, iloveoov and some of the retired players like ChOJJa, rA, GF, JJu etc, because they were specific and charismatic players, that's all about it :D
It reminds me that kinda slump Flash had 2008 Q1 , he was in MSL and OSL semis, and lost both in two weeks, apart from losing Averatech Intel Classic vs JD in a surprising 3-0 way
And fantasy comes tomorrow, really everything comes in a bad moment for the tyrant
BTW, Calm is available in the "free agency" period, so better STX get money from their budget to maintain this valuable player
Well. STX need no money, they have their secret weapon to keep Calm in team happy
damn it, in regards to Liquibet I really wanted to change my vote after I saw JD's performance in Proleague. I think Fantasy is going to take him out too.
You know when you look at old single leagues from like four five years ago and you think about the people in the finals and you are like "Who are these people?"
I think the main reason I hate JD was the ZvZ dominance just seemed so unfair. The matchup is the weirdest in Starcraft by far; it's almost like a different game, so I disliked how he seemed to have such an advantage in tournaments and proleagues by basically having auto wins in the most annoying and least interesting matchup.
On August 14 2009 00:48 cgrinker wrote: You know when you look at old single leagues from like four five years ago and you think about the people in the finals and you are like "Who are these people?"
Omg............fucking Calm denying us of a JD vs Iris finals =(
Oh well. Hopefully JD was practicing his heart out for OSL in order to get that golden mouse. Iris you better win the damn semis. Nobody wants to watch a lame Calm vs Kwanro finals lol.
On August 14 2009 00:52 SimonB wrote: I think the main reason I hate JD was the ZvZ dominance just seemed so unfair. The matchup is the weirdest in Starcraft by far; it's almost like a different game, so I disliked how he seemed to have such an advantage in tournaments and proleagues by basically having auto wins in the most annoying and least interesting matchup.
Glad to see that has eroded a little at least.
zvz is maybe the hardest match in all starcraft (tvz and zvt are too ) . the most stressing match , the most micro match , the most "one gling make the game" match .
you should love jaedong for that , he successed in the hardest match up and in the biggest way possible .
i just hate Zergs with bad zvz ( kwanro , effort , luxury .. ) .
i loved calm for a while now , even i cried this morning for my jaedong , calm really really really played well , REALLY better than effort will ever do . zvz is getting harder and harder this times , and i think there will be notable changes in the near future . one player dominance is getting more and more impossible .
"Jaedong's not 100%! He would win if he had practice time!"
Please, every top player has to deal with conflicting practice schedules. If he was good enough, if he was B-word material, he'd deal with it and make both finals. But he couldn't so he's not that level -- its nothing to be ashamed about, nobody is that good nowadays.
As for practicing for a ZvZ Bo5, Jaedong has been practicing all season on these maps ZvZ. Jaedong's ZvZ has slipped, and Calm played great. Give credit to Calm for winning, and stop putting it all on practice time differential.
On August 14 2009 00:52 SimonB wrote: I think the main reason I hate JD was the ZvZ dominance just seemed so unfair. The matchup is the weirdest in Starcraft by far; it's almost like a different game, so I disliked how he seemed to have such an advantage in tournaments and proleagues by basically having auto wins in the most annoying and least interesting matchup.
Glad to see that has eroded a little at least.
zvz is maybe the hardest match in all starcraft (tvz and zvt are too ) . the most stressing match , the most micro match , the most "one gling make the game" match .
you should love jaedong for that , he successed in the hardest match up and in the biggest way possible .
i just hate Zergs with bad zvz ( kwanro , effort , luxury .. ) .
i loved calm for a while now , even i cried this morning for my jaedong , calm really really really played well , REALLY better than effort will ever do . zvz is getting harder and harder this times , and i think there will be notable changes in the near future . one player dominance is getting more and more impossible .
lets see about OSL and next season .
ARE YOU FUCKING HIGH?
Effort has over 60% in EVERY matchup. He's beaten Jaedong in a BO3. He handily DEMOLISHED Great in the Ace match of the 2nd CJ-KHAN match. Effort's got great ZvZ (obviously not as good as JD, losing to him in the CJ-Oz matches), and he's got great everything. The only reason Calm is currently looking better is because he had a significantly easier road to the finals. What the fuck have you been smoking dude?
Really surprised by that result. Was expecting Jaedong taking it 3:0 or 3:1... Not this. But I'm glad that Calm made it. I hope now that Iris will be the 2nd finalist.
On August 14 2009 00:52 SimonB wrote: I think the main reason I hate JD was the ZvZ dominance just seemed so unfair. The matchup is the weirdest in Starcraft by far; it's almost like a different game, so I disliked how he seemed to have such an advantage in tournaments and proleagues by basically having auto wins in the most annoying and least interesting matchup.
Glad to see that has eroded a little at least.
zvz is maybe the hardest match in all starcraft (tvz and zvt are too ) . the most stressing match , the most micro match , the most "one gling make the game" match .
you should love jaedong for that , he successed in the hardest match up and in the biggest way possible .
i just hate Zergs with bad zvz ( kwanro , effort , luxury .. ) .
i loved calm for a while now , even i cried this morning for my jaedong , calm really really really played well , REALLY better than effort will ever do . zvz is getting harder and harder this times , and i think there will be notable changes in the near future . one player dominance is getting more and more impossible .
lets see about OSL and next season .
ARE YOU FUCKING HIGH?
Effort has over 60% in EVERY matchup. He's beaten Jaedong in a BO3. He handily DEMOLISHED Great in the Ace match of the 2nd CJ-KHAN match. Effort's got great ZvZ (obviously not as good as JD, losing to him in the CJ-Oz matches), and he's got great everything. The only reason Calm is currently looking better is because he had a significantly easier road to the finals. What the fuck have you been smoking dude?
He is clearly too blinded by his fanboyism for calm to appreciate other zerg players as well. (Not to deny calm's great performance this series though)
On August 13 2009 19:57 WindCalibur wrote: I'm afraid that Jaedong might really be in a slump if he manages to lose to Fantasy tommorow. Jaedong should realize that practice efficiency is just as important as how much he practices. Sleeping less for practice might not have better results than if he sleep more and practice a bit less.
Apparently, he didn't read Boxer's biography where he learned that lesson for himself
On August 14 2009 02:02 UGC4 wrote: i wanna think that jaedong was more focused on practicing for his matches against fantasy, and didnt put enough effort into this bo5...
On August 14 2009 02:46 Zinfandel wrote: Oh, how the mighty have fallen. The case for Jaedong as Bonjwa is getting weaker and weaker.
He can still win the OSL, which will be by all means amazing. But even if he is in the beginning of slump, it will be his first down point as a progamer till now, damn Jaedong is so consistent
Jaedong looked very tired during this series. The best thing he can do to beat Fantasy is get some good, long sleep at night before the match. If he is going to practice like crazy, he'll get toasted.
And if Calm is going to play Iris... Calm's most recent stats in ZvT are awesome. If it's going to be Kwanro... well, he already beat tougher Zerg than CJ's player. Though I'm rooting for Berserker I can totally see STX's kid taking the title.
On August 14 2009 03:18 levelzx wrote: Jaedong looked very tired during this series. The best thing he can do to beat Fantasy is get some good, long sleep at night before the match. If he is going to practice like crazy, he'll get toasted.
And if Calm is going to play Iris... Calm's most recent stats in ZvT are awesome. If it's going to be Kwanro... well, he already beat tougher Zerg than CJ's player. Though I'm rooting for Berserker I can totally see STX's kid taking the title.
I don't know. Iris is DESTROYING people lately, taking down Effort (who can still be considered better than calm) and taking down Bisu. Iris is on a rampage and it doesn't look like he's gonna stop, especially if he wins GOM...
On August 14 2009 03:18 levelzx wrote: Jaedong looked very tired during this series. The best thing he can do to beat Fantasy is get some good, long sleep at night before the match. If he is going to practice like crazy, he'll get toasted.
And if Calm is going to play Iris... Calm's most recent stats in ZvT are awesome. If it's going to be Kwanro... well, he already beat tougher Zerg than CJ's player. Though I'm rooting for Berserker I can totally see STX's kid taking the title.
I don't know. Iris is DESTROYING people lately, taking down Effort (who can still be considered better than calm) and taking down Bisu. Iris is on a rampage and it doesn't look like he's gonna stop, especially if he wins GOM...
Yes but keep in mind Effort-Iris is a inter-team battle which have always held wonky results and Effort didn't practice for the match at all. (Not to take away from Iris or anything just saying effort was practicing for more important things)
Then we also have the fact Iris will have to practice for both TvZ and TvT because he'll be playing flash in the Gom finals and Iris has already shown that he will practice for Gom.
On August 14 2009 03:37 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: ZvZ is all luck. This means nothing. sAviOr lost to ChoJJa. Jaedong is best Zerg. He got unlucky. He was too tired. He was practicing against fantasy.
uh... Savior's worst MU was his ZvZ and before this game Jaedong's ZvZ was 77% that is not luck.
On August 14 2009 03:42 crucifix wrote: People saying ZvZ is all about luck makes me fucking angry. OMG RAGEEEEEEEEEEE
On August 14 2009 03:37 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: ZvZ is all luck. This means nothing. sAviOr lost to ChoJJa. Jaedong is best Zerg. He got unlucky. He was too tired. He was practicing against fantasy.
Actually, there's NO luck in ZvZ. It's pure micro ability and decision making. BO's are not luck - it's your fault if you choose a BO that is easily countered and you don't scout to make sure that you're safe. There's no luck because it isn't random chance - it's purely up to the two player's decisions.
On August 14 2009 03:37 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: ZvZ is all luck. This means nothing. sAviOr lost to ChoJJa. Jaedong is best Zerg. He got unlucky. He was too tired. He was practicing against fantasy.
Actually, there's NO luck in ZvZ. It's pure micro ability and decision making. BO's are not luck - it's your fault if you choose a BO that is easily countered and you don't scout to make sure that you're safe. There's no luck because it isn't random chance - it's purely up to the two player's decisions.
On August 14 2009 03:37 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: ZvZ is all luck. This means nothing. sAviOr lost to ChoJJa. Jaedong is best Zerg. He got unlucky. He was too tired. He was practicing against fantasy.
uh... Savior's worst MU was his ZvZ and before this game Jaedong's ZvZ was 77% that is not luck.
calm winning = luck/other player was tired jd winning = just being the better player
seriously, calm won, stop making excuses calm won today by outsmarting jd, and u need more than luck to beat jd in a Bo5 series (especially since its zvz)
On August 14 2009 03:37 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: ZvZ is all luck. This means nothing. sAviOr lost to ChoJJa. Jaedong is best Zerg. He got unlucky. He was too tired. He was practicing against fantasy.
Anyone notice how Calm had a perfect strategy for an overpool vs 12 pool, even on maps with long rush distances? If his strategy is viable, i.e. not hard counters, then I suspect we'll see a change from more eco BOs in ZvZ into mostly 9 pool and variants.
On August 14 2009 03:37 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: ZvZ is all luck. This means nothing. sAviOr lost to ChoJJa. Jaedong is best Zerg. He got unlucky. He was too tired. He was practicing against fantasy.
Actually, there's NO luck in ZvZ. It's pure micro ability and decision making. BO's are not luck - it's your fault if you choose a BO that is easily countered and you don't scout to make sure that you're safe. There's no luck because it isn't random chance - it's purely up to the two player's decisions.
are you joking?
No. People love to throw around the word "luck" as an excuse as to why people lose, but they hardly know the definition of it.
On August 14 2009 03:37 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: ZvZ is all luck. This means nothing. sAviOr lost to ChoJJa. Jaedong is best Zerg. He got unlucky. He was too tired. He was practicing against fantasy.
On August 14 2009 03:37 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: ZvZ is all luck. This means nothing. sAviOr lost to ChoJJa. Jaedong is best Zerg. He got unlucky. He was too tired. He was practicing against fantasy.
wow...just...is this a serious post or not?
I don't think so. People usually post stuff like this when they're mad, but he doesn't seem to be angry at all, so I think it's just a troll (or a parody).
On August 14 2009 03:37 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: ZvZ is all luck. This means nothing. sAviOr lost to ChoJJa. Jaedong is best Zerg. He got unlucky. He was too tired. He was practicing against fantasy.
wow...just...is this a serious post or not?
it was serious alright he just doesn't want to give calm credit because he is a jaedong fanboy.
On August 14 2009 03:37 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: ZvZ is all luck. This means nothing. sAviOr lost to ChoJJa. Jaedong is best Zerg. He got unlucky. He was too tired. He was practicing against fantasy.
wow...just...is this a serious post or not?
it was serious alright he just doesn't want to give calm credit because he is a jaedong fanboy.
In this thread I count at least 5 pre-emptive posts that say, INB4 Fanboy excuses, and 1 post with fanboy excuses. That's obnoxious.
On August 14 2009 03:37 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: ZvZ is all luck. This means nothing. sAviOr lost to ChoJJa. Jaedong is best Zerg. He got unlucky. He was too tired. He was practicing against fantasy.
wow...just...is this a serious post or not?
it was serious alright he just doesn't want to give calm credit because he is a jaedong fanboy.
calms zvz was below 50% only a few weeks ago, its hard to believe he beat effort 3-0 and jaedong 3-1 wtf elo IRIS BETTER BEAT KWANRO, CALM V KWANRO WOULD BE TERRIBLE edit: wow nice predictions, you got every single game on every map backwards
On August 14 2009 04:54 deathgod6 wrote: To everyone complaining about Calm being lucky, I thought that he wasn't. He played smart and his choices just beat Jaedong's.
I don't see anyone complaining about Calm being lucky, or making up excuses for JD losing. Maybe just one or two people. What the hell are you guys talking about?
On August 14 2009 05:31 Tekin wrote: Could this be a sign that JD is on a slump?
no
I hope you're joking. It's obvious that The Dong is in a slump. He got kicked out of Gom TV, lost the proleague finals for his team, and just got kicked out of the MSL. He is in a slump because he was the favorite to win Gom and the MSL, and people were expecting him to beat Hyuk and at least get to the Super Ace Match and win it for Oz. Anyone who thinks The Dong is not in a slump (as of right now; it can turn around if he wins the OSL) is in denial.
On August 14 2009 06:28 valaki wrote: Tomorrow we will see if this is a real slump or not.
This is a slump. Tomorrow we'll see if he breaks out of the slump. There's a distinction there. There's nothing wrong with being in a slump... it only makes him human...
On August 14 2009 03:37 MoRe_mInErAls wrote: ZvZ is all luck. This means nothing. sAviOr lost to ChoJJa. Jaedong is best Zerg. He got unlucky. He was too tired. He was practicing against fantasy.
It wasn't his fault. His mouse ran out of battery power. He lost a key on his keyboard. He didn't have his spare keys. His outfit was itchy. His girlfriend dumped him. Someone shined a laser-pointer in his eyes. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood! Locusts! IT WASN'T HIS FAULT I SWEAR TO GOD!!!
Is he really in a slump? The past 10 games he played were against tough opponents in Finals situations. His opponents just outplayed him. There are many players out there who lost 7 out of their last 10, but we do call them slumping?
But then again, this is JD. And JD gets treated differently. Hope he whoops fantasy tonight.
PS- only reason calm 3:0 effort was because effort 12 hatch/pool 3 games in a row. zzz
On August 14 2009 06:57 dl2agon wrote: Is he really in a slump? The past 10 games he played were against tough opponents in Finals situations. His opponents just outplayed him. There are many players out there who lost 7 out of their last 10, but we do call them slumping?
But then again, this is JD. And JD gets treated differently. Hope he whoops fantasy tonight.
PS- only reason calm 3:0 effort was because effort 12 hatch/pool 3 games in a row. zzz
Yes, because he isn't performing like he used to. He used to dominate people, even in a finals situation. Now he's dropping games to people he should DEFINITELY beat, especially in his "godmode" matchup.
It's a good question if JD is slumping or not. We'll know the answer in a few hours. Even then it remains to be seen how big the slump is.
It looks to me that Jadong is just running out of steam. He was exhausted a few weeks ago and his schedule hasn't gotten any easier in the meantime. Running deep into GOM+MSL+OSL+PL has just worn him out.
If he can get past Fanstasy he'll have time to recover. The Problem is that he has to get pas Fantasy.
Calm is such a beast, I love how he is thinking outside of the box with such aggressive builds/moves. Guess I have to add another zerg player to my "must watch every game" list.
Jaedong to KT please! :D. Haha. Flash and JD can support each other in PL and dominate the individuals together. Flash + JD + ForGG + Lux + Violet... a man can dream right?
And honestly, as a Flash fan, slump gets thrown around way too much. Players preform well and don't preform well. JD is being overworked, but I don't doubt his supreme skill. You can't win every league and sometimes when you're in all of them at once with no backup and all the fans breathing down your back, you can't win any of them. Even if he loses to Fantasy tonight (I hope he does so Yarnc can face Fantasy although in a vacuum I would want JD to win), there's no doubt in my mind who will bounce back and be dominate in next season. Fantasy may do well in individuals, but he's never been a PL star, which to me, and I think many fans, is an important sign of dominance in todays SC scene. I'm not saying that to bash on Fantasy, I'm just saying to me it's clear that even if JD drops everything this season, I don't doubt his skill. Xellos is in a slump, ForGG is in a slump, Boxer is in a slump. These guys play so far from their original level of skill. JD is not in a slump.. no player preforms well after being in GOM, PL Finals, MSL and OSL all at once and losing important games in GOM to an upstart ZvZ'er on a tear, and PL Finals twice to one of the most strategic players in the history of the game and with a BO loss in a ZvZ. JD can't carry the world on his shoulders and no player can.. he's overworked. It's really that simple.
So keep your head high JD fans. I say this without really being much of one, but he'll be fine regardless of beating or losing to Fantasy (although I think his chances of winning are much higher than people are acting like)...
Jaedong's been playing ZvZ on these maps all season long and with his mechanics it was quite possible that he would 3-0 Calm right off the bat without any training at all. ZvT/ZvP is another story, cause you have to be prepared for many different and I mean DIFFERENT strats, all kinds of proxy, bio, mech, wraiths, valks, reaver sair, 1 gate tech, goon push. That's the real challenge. But ZvZ ? It's the matchup players, especially Jaedong, got figured out the most. It's always lings and then mutas in varying proportions, you just have to pay attention to pool and spire timings. What more is there for Jaedong to train ? muta micro ? puuleeasseeeee... Jaedong got simply outsmarted today, no amount of additional training would change that. There was no mismicro nor noobish mistakes, it was Calm's decision making that won him the series. Muta fake in set 2, sniping two mutas with his first scourge and hiding lings. It seems like the builds were crafted perfectly to snipe Jaedong, but hey, it's up to the underdog to prepare something special for a series like this. Calm won fair and square
On August 14 2009 07:30 Eeevil wrote: (1) It's a good question if JD is slumping or not. We'll know the answer in a few hours. (2) Hope the Dong is sleeping well.
(1) Actually losing a couple of semis and a final doesn't necessarily mean a progamer is slumping. Slump is only appropriate to address a player who is losing a lot of games consecutively. So the answer to that question can only be known next season. As far as this season is concerned, Jaedong has been a beast since Day 1 but he just didn't have a happy ending (that is if he's losing to Fantasy today).
(2) I'm sure he was not. Someone seriously needs to slap this boy in the face telling him that cutting up a huge amount of sleep doesn't help winning at all. Of course before important games he might want to sleep a couple of hours less to prepare better. I don't blame him for that, because we all do it. But he has been cutting his sleep since the beginning of this season for fuck's sake. Now it's already too late to tell him to get some sleep, because there's only semi (and final) left and it's virtually impossible for one to sleep peacefully before such games. Coaches and managers should really plan their members' sleeping schedule better. If the players insist then just fucking kill off those hamsters and there goes the power.
Never thought Jaedong would lose in a Bo5 ZvZ. At least Jaedong didn't lose by 12 hatching. Anyways, Calm played smarter with his +1 Attack Ups/Hiding Lings. Kudos to him.
Hoping for an Iris v. Calm MSL Final. Will be interesting to watch in my opinion.
There are so many posts in this thread where people are talking about how JD should sleep/rest more. Did he give an interview saying he didn't sleep much the last few days or is everyone here just totally assuming that because otherwise JD would NEVER lose right?
speaking of interviews did anyone translate the winner's interview yet? I would love to read it :D
Um, yeah, a short while ago he said in an interview that he was feeling very tired lately and cutting sleep and that was even before starleague semifinals and proleague finals.
On August 14 2009 07:30 Eeevil wrote: (1) It's a good question if JD is slumping or not. We'll know the answer in a few hours. (2) Hope the Dong is sleeping well.
(1) Actually losing a couple of semis and a final doesn't necessarily mean a progamer is slumping. Slump is only appropriate to address a player who is losing a lot of games consecutively. So the answer to that question can only be known next season. As far as this season is concerned, Jaedong has been a beast since Day 1 but he just didn't have a happy ending (that is if he's losing to Fantasy today).
(2) I'm sure he was not. Someone seriously needs to slap this boy in the face telling him that cutting up a huge amount of sleep doesn't help winning at all. Of course before important games he might want to sleep a couple of hours less to prepare better. I don't blame him for that, because we all do it. But he has been cutting his sleep since the beginning of this season for fuck's sake. Now it's already too late to tell him to get some sleep, because there's only semi (and final) left and it's virtually impossible for one to sleep peacefully before such games. Coaches and managers should really plan their members' sleeping schedule better. If the players insist then just fucking kill off those hamsters and there goes the power.
Agreed. Quit throwing the word slump around. Its like all the morons using the word epic everywhere.
On August 14 2009 05:31 Tekin wrote: Could this be a sign that JD is on a slump?
no
I hope you're joking. It's obvious that The Dong is in a slump. He got kicked out of Gom TV, lost the proleague finals for his team, and just got kicked out of the MSL. He is in a slump because he was the favorite to win Gom and the MSL, and people were expecting him to beat Hyuk and at least get to the Super Ace Match and win it for Oz. Anyone who thinks The Dong is not in a slump (as of right now; it can turn around if he wins the OSL) is in denial.
Lol @ people thinking any progamer actually ever cared about GOM... Practicing for GOM is jokingly considered cheating among progamers, the only progamer who admitted practicing was Iris but he was going to face a teammate so it wasn't that big of a deal.
And also lol @ all the slumping Jaedong posts and posters...
On August 14 2009 11:21 r33k wrote: Lol @ people thinking any progamer actually ever cared about GOM... Practicing for GOM is jokingly considered cheating among progamers, the only progamer who admitted practicing was Iris but he was going to face a teammate so it wasn't that big of a deal.
iirc, what Effort was ragging Iris about was practicing for GOM semis instead of/as well as the Proleague semis, and all indications seem to be that most are considering PL the biggest progaming stage right now. I don't think it was so much a case of "nobody cares" as it's a lesser priority. I'm expecting Iris to lose the GOM final just on the basis that he has MSL semis to practice for as well.
GOM doesn't have the prestige of the OSL or even the MSL, but I'm pretty sure people care somewhat, at least because of that paycheck.
On the other hand, if you want a tournament that evidently no one cares about, there's this thing called the Masters going on...
Lol @ people thinking any progamer actually ever cared about GOM... Practicing for GOM is jokingly considered cheating among progamers, the only progamer who admitted practicing was Iris but he was going to face a teammate so it wasn't that big of a deal.
And also lol @ all the slumping Jaedong posts and posters...
People that say this make me annoyed because they sound so fucking stupid. Not only does the GSL have BY FAR the biggest prize pool, you win a trip to Blizzcon by doing well in the tournament. The players definitely care about it, even if they have higher priorities (like the PL, which is the most important league in Korea).
Agreed. Quit throwing the word slump around. Its like all the morons using the word epic everywhere.
So how many games does he have to lose before he's considered in a slump? He was knocked out of the GSL by Effort, he's dropped games to the likes of Orion and Hyuk, he was handily owned twice by Fantasy, he was knocked out of the MSL by Calm....I mean really, does he have to lose 100 games in a row before people realize what's going on? The guy's slipping. He's tired, overworked, not sleeping enough. It's perfectly reasonable to say slump.
edit: well I guess I shouldn't look to badly upon this loss. This just increased Iris' chance of winning greatly. JD is like the only person I can think of that can deal with all the weird play a Terran throws at them. Go Iris!
On August 14 2009 13:30 Avidkeystamper wrote: Has anyone realized how in this series, overpool, early ling pressure, fast +1 atk works against any other BO?
Don't forget hiding troop count. It makes your opponent have to play guessing games almost.
On August 14 2009 05:40 mog87 wrote: God...if kwanro or calm win the msl, this is the worst starleague season ever. Go Berserker claim your destiny slay kwanro and then feast upon calm.
whats wrong with calm winning the msl? its not like Bo5 vs effort and jaedong is easy (probably the 2 best zvz'ers, and calm beat them both) dont use the 12 hatch excuse, its effort's fault
calm's road to the finals: group: 2-0 (beat sea and zero) Ro16: calm 2-0 forgg Ro8: calm 3-0 effort Ro4: calm 3-1 jaedong
if calm plays iris in the finals, and wins(also if loses), then its far from "the worst starleague season ever"
On August 14 2009 05:40 mog87 wrote: God...if kwanro or calm win the msl, this is the worst starleague season ever. Go Berserker claim your destiny slay kwanro and then feast upon calm.
whats wrong with calm winning the msl? its not like Bo5 vs effort and jaedong is easy (probably the 2 best zvz'ers, and calm beat them both) dont use the 12 hatch excuse, its effort's fault
calm's road to the finals: group: 2-0 (beat sea and zero) Ro16: calm 2-0 forgg Ro8: calm 3-0 effort Ro4: calm 3-1 jaedong
if calm plays iris in the finals, and wins(also if loses), then its far from "the worst starleague season ever"
Just curious, what was the worst star league season ever then ? (not saying this one is bad, was awesome in my opinion)
When Luxury won MSL? When July won OSL in 2008? Enlighten me
On August 14 2009 05:40 mog87 wrote: God...if kwanro or calm win the msl, this is the worst starleague season ever. Go Berserker claim your destiny slay kwanro and then feast upon calm.
whats wrong with calm winning the msl? its not like Bo5 vs effort and jaedong is easy (probably the 2 best zvz'ers, and calm beat them both) dont use the 12 hatch excuse, its effort's fault
calm's road to the finals: group: 2-0 (beat sea and zero) Ro16: calm 2-0 forgg Ro8: calm 3-0 effort Ro4: calm 3-1 jaedong
if calm plays iris in the finals, and wins(also if loses), then its far from "the worst starleague season ever"
all of calm's games have been entertaining and he's dominated them all
guy doesnt really get the spotlight cuz LOL ITS CLAM (even i ignore clam) but he's playing great starcraft right now and his games have been badass. so far, this has been a really cool MSL, especially paired with mo'fuckin iris in the semifinal
On August 14 2009 13:35 kNyTTyM wrote: edit: well I guess I shouldn't look to badly upon this loss. This just increased Iris' chance of winning greatly. JD is like the only person I can think of that can deal with all the weird play a Terran throws at them. Go Iris!
You have clearly never heard of sAviOr (well, okay, he's not that shiny right now), Yarnc, Luxury (well, before he sucked), or Effort. Or, for that matter, Calm, who first really impressed me with an absolute destruction of UpMagic in the Winners League.
Calm played pretty well. I just feel bad for Jaedong right now. He looks so damn tired. I gotta think Storyteller's diagnosis of overpracticing is coming into effect for him.
On August 14 2009 13:30 Avidkeystamper wrote: Has anyone realized how in this series, overpool, early ling pressure, fast +1 atk works against any other BO?
Calm didn't go overpool on Outsider, nor did he do early ling pressure, and he had an immense advantage after Jaedong's 9pool failed to do any significant damage to him. Then in the game on Heartbreak Ridge, Calm went 9pool against Jaedong's 13pool and won.
Well, it's not strictly overpool, but a quick pool build. I'm pretty sure Calm went for an overpool on Outsider, since JD went 9 pool and they were slightly earlier than Calm's lings. He might've gone for 9 on HBR. I guess my point would be that any 12 pool or higher looks extremely beatable with overpool or 9 pool now.
On August 15 2009 09:56 Avidkeystamper wrote: Well, it's not strictly overpool, but a quick pool build. I'm pretty sure Calm went for an overpool on Outsider, since JD went 9 pool and they were slightly earlier than Calm's lings. He might've gone for 9 on HBR. I guess my point would be that any 12 pool or higher looks extremely beatable with overpool or 9 pool now.
It was overgas on Outsider. Heartbreak Ridge was 9pool Speed which does amazing against 12pool expand builds.
On August 15 2009 09:56 Avidkeystamper wrote: Well, it's not strictly overpool, but a quick pool build. I'm pretty sure Calm went for an overpool on Outsider, since JD went 9 pool and they were slightly earlier than Calm's lings. He might've gone for 9 on HBR. I guess my point would be that any 12 pool or higher looks extremely beatable with overpool or 9 pool now.
It was overgas on Outsider. Heartbreak Ridge was 9pool Speed which does amazing against 12pool expand builds.
No, calm went overgas on Outsider and overgas is really different from overpool in how the build works out and what the builds aim to do.
Nal_Ra has been saying for a really long while now in a lot of the ZvZ games he commentated on about how 12pool just isn't really a good build anymore, and there were stats some guy did on ZvZ on Medusa that showed that 9pool was beating 12pool more than the other way around which put a really big dent on the traditional theory of 12pool > 9pool. Of course some of these things differ depending on the map being played, but regardless, some of these ideas has been known for a while now, and so with this in mind, Calm didn't really bring anything drastically new to the table except for the quick +1 attack he did in the last two games and simply just confirmed some of the new theoretical ideas that have been brought up in ZvZ in recent times.
On August 15 2009 09:56 Avidkeystamper wrote: Well, it's not strictly overpool, but a quick pool build. I'm pretty sure Calm went for an overpool on Outsider, since JD went 9 pool and they were slightly earlier than Calm's lings. He might've gone for 9 on HBR. I guess my point would be that any 12 pool or higher looks extremely beatable with overpool or 9 pool now.
It was overgas on Outsider. Heartbreak Ridge was 9pool Speed which does amazing against 12pool expand builds.
All this stuff started to float around the time when they brought back Raid Assault 2 briefly, which was when Jaedong started to repopularize gas first builds, and that Proleague Season or a bit after, there was a sudden explosion in ZvZ builds and theory along with a mindbogglingly fast increase of skill in ZvZ amongst all Zerg progamers.
I remember that JD once said in an interview that he hopes for leagues with many zvz's, because its his best match-up. now he has leagues with zvz's and gets eliminated by only zergs. effort, calm, and hopefully yarnc.
guess since he was mostly playing bo1's in proleague his zvz confidence exploded, but now that he is confronted with planned out build orders and strategies his zvz begins to crumble.
Wow sick, I saw the vods and I figured I"d just watch one because it'd be 4 games where Calm wins one and JD rapes him for the remaining 3. Turns out I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions.
On August 15 2009 19:43 Heimatloser wrote: I remember that JD once said in an interview that he hopes for leagues with many zvz's, because its his best match-up. now he has leagues with zvz's and gets eliminated by only zergs. effort, calm, and hopefully yarnc.
guess since he was mostly playing bo1's in proleague his zvz confidence exploded, but now that he is confronted with planned out build orders and strategies his zvz begins to crumble.
more like.... if you watch OSL semi-final B, which took place 24 hours later, it's obvious that jaedong didn't practice for his semi-final vs Calm at all.
On August 14 2009 05:40 mog87 wrote: God...if kwanro or calm win the msl, this is the worst starleague season ever. Go Berserker claim your destiny slay kwanro and then feast upon calm.
whats wrong with calm winning the msl? its not like Bo5 vs effort and jaedong is easy (probably the 2 best zvz'ers, and calm beat them both) dont use the 12 hatch excuse, its effort's fault
calm's road to the finals: group: 2-0 (beat sea and zero) Ro16: calm 2-0 forgg Ro8: calm 3-0 effort Ro4: calm 3-1 jaedong
if calm plays iris in the finals, and wins(also if loses), then its far from "the worst starleague season ever"
Just curious, what was the worst star league season ever then ? (not saying this one is bad, was awesome in my opinion)
When Luxury won MSL? When July won OSL in 2008? Enlighten me
wasnt really my point when he said "the worst starleague season ever", he meant something like this starleague is bad. my point was that its far from bad, and imo its awesome. im not comparing starleagues cuz its everyone's own opionion.
if i say that this msl is better than the msl where luxury won, then its my opinion, not a fact. every starleague is unique in its own way, some might produce more quality games, but arguing which 1 is the worst is pointless imo. hope u got my point.
On August 15 2009 22:47 Sadist wrote: rofl @ jaedong not practicing.
I swear some of you guys are just retarded.
Theres also skill involved....you know. Practicing only gets you so far the few days before a match. Its not like he hasnt played 10000 zvzs before.
Doesn't matter. When you're playing ZvT all day and not studying up on your opponent and practicing the specific maps you're playing, you're going to be in a rather uncomfortable zone when you switch to different maps and a COMPLETELY different MU than what you were practicing.