Hey guys. I've playing on the beta since mid march and to say the least I'm super stoked that SC2 is going to be released the day before my birthday WEWT!!!
anyway, I play random at the gold level currently rank 2. My toss and terran are Really strong but as Zerg I run in to problems between Drone production and Unit production, as I'm sure that all new zerg players run in to this problem some time in there careers.
Anyway I'm hoping that someone has/knows of a good stream or perhaps some good videos that can help me resolve this problem. and help me get the right Ratio of Attacking units to drones so that I can live more easily through the mid game.
If you'd like a replay I don't mind putting that up tonight when I get home.
Zerg is the easiest one to answer: IdrA, without a doubt. His play is so solid. A little earlier in the beta he was a bit weak to cheese but I'd say now he's stronger than ever. He dominates.
On May 21 2010 02:21 omninmo wrote: Urup: dimaga NA: idrartosis Ajuh: check, f91
EU-dimaga NA- n/a Asia- Idra
fixed.
but it should really read:
IdrA IdrA IdrA.
cause idra is sex on a stick.
so IdrA obviously, but if you can also get you hands on Check, ZenioWerra, Cool[fOu] or f91 reps, they're probably the best in the world. In the west, definitely DIMAGA, ZpuX, Haypro and Naugrim are all very solid. But pretty much any zerg rep you get on SC2win.com will have top level zergs you can learn from.
Sheth and Slush are also definitely worth mentioning.
And definitely IdrA. As to your main question of units vs. drones, it seems like a playstyle thing to some degree. Idra definitely favors a drone-heavy, macro-oriented style.
I like IdrA's bm, but i've killed him so many times I duno. His ZvT is terrible. He folds like a lawn chair to reaper micro. Dimaga is probably the best Z i've seen play on europe, but I've never played against him so i don't really know how good he is.
There is a guy on north american server named Ostijy (i think that's how it's spelled) and he's the only zerg I've seen that consistantly gives tough games. As far as the people I've played against he's the best on NA server.
edit: also i wouldn't look at naugrim. he's pretty unimpressive in sc2. his builds don't make any sense half the time... cutting mass drones on scrap then not doing anything w/ the lings in zvz. Not the best player to learn from imo.
Idra, Machine, Sheth, CatZ, Suggy, Iris, Telecom are some of the Americans I can think of. Don't follow EU as much so someone else would have to give you that stuff. Idra is still in Korea of course.
Oh Artosis is good too. Can never remember his name -.-
Idra is probably the most solid of the zerg players right now, due to his hatred of cheese and love of macro. Other zergs may be better at certain builds, but I'd say he is the best overall.
Idra but in all fairness he plays 12+ hours a day in a pro gaming environment so you wouldn't expect less. It's questionable that other players would be better than him if they were in his situation but I gues we'll never know....
On May 21 2010 03:21 beakermimi wrote: Idra but in all fairness he plays 12+ hours a day in a pro gaming environment so you wouldn't expect less. It's questionable that other players would be better than him if they were in his situation but I gues we'll never know....
This kind of reasoning doesn't work. It takes dedication to be ABLE to train that much.
On May 21 2010 03:21 beakermimi wrote: Idra but in all fairness he plays 12+ hours a day in a pro gaming environment so you wouldn't expect less. It's questionable that other players would be better than him if they were in his situation but I gues we'll never know....
This kind of reasoning doesn't work. It takes dedication to be ABLE to train that much.
Maybe its just me, but I play ten hours a day during the week, and close to sixteen hours a day on the weekends, and I have a full time job as an Air Traffic Controller.
I'm nowhere close to Idra as far as skill goes, but I think I have potential, although I don't know if I would call it dedication. I just really enjoy the game.
On May 21 2010 03:21 beakermimi wrote: Idra but in all fairness he plays 12+ hours a day in a pro gaming environment so you wouldn't expect less. It's questionable that other players would be better than him if they were in his situation but I gues we'll never know....
If we start asking those questions, then there at least 6 billion people out there that could be better than the current best SC2 players if they were given the chance to play SC2 10h+ / day with appropriate conditions. And that could be applied for many other games / sports success in life.
On May 21 2010 02:14 BladeRunner wrote: Zerg is the easiest one to answer: IdrA, without a doubt. His play is so solid. A little earlier in the beta he was a bit weak to cheese but I'd say now he's stronger than ever. He dominates.
I'm a fan.
Maybe he's still weak to cheese. But somehow in the last replays I saw, people just stopped trying to cheese him.
Maybe is because he got strong against it off the record, or because stronger players don't want to resort to cheese or all-ins and prefer to do a timming-macro gameplay.
But right now, with the roach buff, why not pressure him even earlyer than before?
btw, just a side note, isnt dimaga and f91 was the guy who betrayed TL by cheating all their wins by making fake characters themselves and giving their own characters free wins even though TL gave them a chance to go straight into ro16 or something just because there was a large price pool involved?
Anyways. As for now, idra is definitely my favourite. solid basic play which makes people wants to play zerg.
DIMAGA/Freedom for sure. Don't know what people are basing it on, their favourites or their countries best - but i'm pretty sure DIMAGA and Freedom are well ahead of most people mentioned - a couple of koreans that i'm not familiar with too are apparently really top notch aswell, such as that ex-estro manager/captain guy.
its hard to name one or 2 players, just get all qualified zergs for the 17173.com Starcraft 2 World Cup and you will have a big list of good zerg players.
I mean all zergs, not only Ro16 qualifieds, cause Idra is eliminated, but he is at same level at those, he just screwed hard in his group. everyone have a bad day...
On May 21 2010 03:21 beakermimi wrote: Idra but in all fairness he plays 12+ hours a day in a pro gaming environment so you wouldn't expect less. It's questionable that other players would be better than him if they were in his situation but I gues we'll never know....
This kind of reasoning doesn't work. It takes dedication to be ABLE to train that much.
Maybe its just me, but I play ten hours a day during the week, and close to sixteen hours a day on the weekends, and I have a full time job as an Air Traffic Controller.
I'm nowhere close to Idra as far as skill goes, but I think I have potential, although I don't know if I would call it dedication. I just really enjoy the game.
So you use 122/168 hours of the week on starcraft and work... Must be hard to find time sleep and eat, not to mention all the other things you might want to do with your life.
Hell, 7 hours a sleep of night puts you at 6 hours left in your week for EVERYTHING but eating sc and work lmao.
On topic, the second best zerg (after me, of course) is Idra.
So you use 122/168 hours of the week on starcraft and work... Must be hard to find time sleep and eat, not to mention all the other things you might want to do with your life.
Hell, 7 hours a sleep of night puts you at 6 hours left in your week for EVERYTHING but eating sc and work lmao.
I dont think you are reading enough into what he said. I think he just admitted something his boss might not like to see lol.
On May 22 2010 11:10 DeMusliM wrote: DIMAGA/Freedom for sure. Don't know what people are basing it on, their favourites or their countries best - but i'm pretty sure DIMAGA and Freedom are well ahead of most people mentioned - a couple of koreans that i'm not familiar with too are apparently really top notch aswell, such as that ex-estro manager/captain guy.
i think you are referring to TESTER. top korean protoss
Its really hard to say because we don't have an accurate perspective on Asian players. However, based on what I've seen in us/euro tourneys I'd have to say IdrA. He's solid, and shows solid results in a lag environment. Not to mention he was ranked in top 5 zerg and had the best win% of those zergs on Asia.Not saying that simple ladder statistics are the end all or anything but it backs his case.
Idra's definitely probably the best foreign Zerg player, but there are plenty of ex-pro Korean SC players playing SC2 who can easily give Idra a run for his money.
On May 21 2010 02:14 BladeRunner wrote: Zerg is the easiest one to answer: IdrA, without a doubt. His play is so solid. A little earlier in the beta he was a bit weak to cheese but I'd say now he's stronger than ever. He dominates.
I'm a fan.
weak to cheese? I don't think so.
He hates cheese but that doesn't make him weak to it
There are a lot of amazing Zergs out there, like all of those already mentioned. Yes Idra is crazy good and a totally solid player, but for me, Sen is just such a beast to watch.
Idra looks like he's walking all over his opponents, but Sen looks like he's toying with them.
Finally some credit to TheRightOne namely Idra... other races polls about this topic seem to misunderstand popularity and skill. Idra, despite the controversies about his manners, is the best Zerg atm. Just stop hating and give him the credit he deserves.
I think Idra is pretty beastly, however I like TLO's zerg play for how innovative he is with the units (however he is innovative with all races so thats a moot point). Artosis is also quite a beast at zerg mastery. I have to say though that lately i have been very impressed by Dimaga.
On May 21 2010 03:21 beakermimi wrote: Idra but in all fairness he plays 12+ hours a day in a pro gaming environment so you wouldn't expect less. It's questionable that other players would be better than him if they were in his situation but I gues we'll never know....
This kind of reasoning doesn't work. It takes dedication to be ABLE to train that much.
Maybe its just me, but I play ten hours a day during the week, and close to sixteen hours a day on the weekends, and I have a full time job as an Air Traffic Controller.
I'm nowhere close to Idra as far as skill goes, but I think I have potential, although I don't know if I would call it dedication. I just really enjoy the game.
Yeah sure but look at what he did with SC1, he played it in Korea for 2 years 12+ hours a day. I bet he no longer found the game that fun and you have to remember he probably had similar training in the US before that so he could even reach the required skill level to get to Korea. Also having another job like you do might actually help so you have some social contact with others and such, but this guy has to practice with unsocial Koreans he can barely have any discussion with.
There's quite a few other Korean SC2 players who live in practice houses already btw., not the official teams though.
Sorry but people like dimaga and haypro don't hold a candle to the cailber idra and artosis are at, at the moment. Granted, they[all] are infinitely better than I am now and perhaps will ever be.
On May 22 2010 19:41 speedphlux wrote: Idra and Artosis are a just a class ahead of the rest good Zergs. Dimaga follows closely by.
Why Do people Lump Artosis With Idra based on Skill level?
Artosis is good but not good enough to be put side by side with Sen,Idra and Freedom.
They Hang out a lot but the Skill gap is Clear when you watch them Play. I would Put Artosis Maybe Around Machines Level Given Machine a slight edge here.
So you use 122/168 hours of the week on starcraft and work... Must be hard to find time sleep and eat, not to mention all the other things you might want to do with your life.
Hell, 7 hours a sleep of night puts you at 6 hours left in your week for EVERYTHING but eating sc and work lmao.
I dont think you are reading enough into what he said. I think he just admitted something his boss might not like to see lol.
Id rather assume that he is lying, than assume he is playing a video game instead of doing his job when peoples lives are at risk.
Does anyone know the names of the top Korean Zerg players? My feeling is that Idra nor any other foreign players can hold a candle against them, but it just seems that they aren't talked about much on TL. Would anyone know where to watch their games?
On May 22 2010 17:52 bjwithbraces wrote: hate him or love him idra is on top
artosis is in a close second.
Sorry but people like dimaga and haypro don't hold a candle to the cailber idra and artosis are at, at the moment. Granted, they[all] are infinitely better than I am now and perhaps will ever be.
Sen is such an amazing player, when you watch him you feel he is calm even in the worst situation possible. Being under 0-2 too whitera, then crush him 3-2 was so amazing.
It seems like the korean players are all doing really well with 8 of the 10 so far advancing. From that pool of players I would say Cool is the top zerg around. I have pretty limited exposure to the asia server but from what I've heard and seen he seems really good. Other korean candidates include tosky, thewind, and sir@soni. I actually think Freedom is amazing but apparently isn't that dedicated to sc2.
On May 21 2010 05:50 SturmAddict wrote: btw, just a side note, isnt dimaga and f91 was the guy who betrayed TL by cheating all their wins by making fake characters themselves and giving their own characters free wins even though TL gave them a chance to go straight into ro16 or something just because there was a large price pool involved?
Anyways. As for now, idra is definitely my favourite. solid basic play which makes people wants to play zerg.
You might want to provide some support like a link rather than just some vague slander
The most competitive SC2 tournament so far, BY FAR, is the SC2 World Cup. Idra went 1-2 in his group and was eliminated in the 1st round. His group was won 3-0 by a Korean Zerg named Leeraeun, with a Chinese Zerg named F91 finishing 2nd. Both these players beat Idra and neither game was particularly close.
7 other Zergs qualified for the 2nd round, including Freedom (who made F91 look like a complete noob last week in a 3-0 thrashing), Sen and Cezanne who all 3-0'd their groups. Other players, including Check, who knocked Idra out of the ASM #1 tournament last week, went 2-1 to progress.
There's really not any justification for ranking Idra #1 based on what we've seen so far. Most of his success has come in North American tournaments against North American players who really don't compare to the top tier Asians.
That's not to say Idra isn't one of the top Zergs, or even the top Zerg, just that there's nothing to show that so far.
Spoilers about Idra's results in the 17173 World cup below. + Show Spoiler +
Idra is very good, no doubt about it, but he seemed to be weak in his zvz matchups in the 17173 worldcup. Didn't seem to have any answer at all to lings/muta, stubbornly going mass roaches in both the games he lost and not having any counter to mutas.
What was that all about? It just very bad to me, but I might have missed something seeing as I haven't really played or watched SC2 much at all.
On May 22 2010 19:41 speedphlux wrote: Idra and Artosis are a just a class ahead of the rest good Zergs. Dimaga follows closely by.
Why Do people Lump Artosis With Idra based on Skill level?
Artosis is good but not good enough to be put side by side with Sen,Idra and Freedom.
They Hang out a lot but the Skill gap is Clear when you watch them Play. I would Put Artosis Maybe Around Machines Level Given Machine a slight edge here.
I have no idea how good Artosis is but I can guarantee you he'd be a little red faced raging nerd if he saw you calling him equal with Machine.
Watching Sen play is incredible....I just finished watching a game of his versus a protoss player and he made my jaw drop more than once. The toss goes for a collusux drop early on. Sen uses a handful of speedlings and 2 queens to defend it effortlessly. And then later on, the toss goes for a push into Sen's nat. I'm thinking it's GG because he only had a few speedlings, 5 hydras versus stalkers, zealots, colossus and sentries. He pulls his drones, makes a round of roaches, and lings, and manages to defend that somehow (uses a clutch FG as well).... He then double expandes, amasses a rather large army and the game progesses towards a base trading finale. A HUGE protoss death ball marches to his main, but he doesn't even blink. As the army goes up his ramp, he casts a fungal growth blocking the rest of his army from marching up his main. o_o;; This buys him ample time to kill off the toss's main and expos, morph BLs, and make lots of sunkens at his other bases. Sheesh.
On May 21 2010 03:21 beakermimi wrote: Idra but in all fairness he plays 12+ hours a day in a pro gaming environment so you wouldn't expect less. It's questionable that other players would be better than him if they were in his situation but I gues we'll never know....
This kind of reasoning doesn't work. It takes dedication to be ABLE to train that much.
Maybe its just me, but I play ten hours a day during the week, and close to sixteen hours a day on the weekends, and I have a full time job as an Air Traffic Controller.
I'm nowhere close to Idra as far as skill goes, but I think I have potential, although I don't know if I would call it dedication. I just really enjoy the game.
Then that just further proves how wrong the reasoning of "If I'd play as much as idra I'd be as good as him" is.
Hmm. Thinking more I have to say Haypro. But I havent seen Sen play much. All I've seen Idra do is 15 pool 16 hatch roach. I havent seen any of his newer games though
On May 21 2010 05:50 SturmAddict wrote: btw, just a side note, isnt dimaga and f91 was the guy who betrayed TL by cheating all their wins by making fake characters themselves and giving their own characters free wins even though TL gave them a chance to go straight into ro16 or something just because there was a large price pool involved?
Anyways. As for now, idra is definitely my favourite. solid basic play which makes people wants to play zerg.
You might want to provide some support like a link rather than just some vague slander
I hadn't played or followed SC for some years until the beta came out so in the world of who's who I'm oblivious. Last I knew NaDa was still setting the game ablaze and Rekrul was writing all these amazing posts about his experiences in Korea.
Lately I've been too busy to play during the week so I usually just watch a few of the replays that sc2p or whoever else posted that day before I pass out.
A few weeks back I ended up watching the Sen vs LESTER ZvZ matches and was fully blown away by Sen's speed, skills and overall ballsy play. After the matches I remember thinking I have no idea know who this Sen guy is but i'm a huge fan of the way he plays and can't wait to see more of his matches vs other top players. Fastforward to yesterday and I ended up catching the vods of his recent series vs White-Ra which were equally as entertaining.
I'm sure people are thinking welcome to the party late dude he's been an established pro forvever. I wouldn't have the faintest idea who the best zerg in the world is at the moment all I know is the guys game has really stood out.
Sen is decent... at this point in time asking this is a little irrelevant. Idra spearheads alot of current meta-game for zerg. But really noone is yet to use any race to their fullest potential, my advice is commit more time to playing and for entertainment value watch Sen .
Everyone's been giving IdrA, Sen and Freedom the credit they deserve.. but IMO PsY is often overlooked - especially because of his commentaries on youtube [psystarcraft].
On May 21 2010 03:21 beakermimi wrote: Idra but in all fairness he plays 12+ hours a day in a pro gaming environment so you wouldn't expect less. It's questionable that other players would be better than him if they were in his situation but I gues we'll never know....
This kind of reasoning doesn't work. It takes dedication to be ABLE to train that much.
Maybe its just me, but I play ten hours a day during the week, and close to sixteen hours a day on the weekends, and I have a full time job as an Air Traffic Controller.
I'm nowhere close to Idra as far as skill goes, but I think I have potential, although I don't know if I would call it dedication. I just really enjoy the game.
As you are an Air Traffic Controller, I'm sure that you know this, so this is for the people that might read your post and think "hey, I can do that too."
It takes more than just putting in the hours. Idra is practicing 12+ hours a day, going 100% for the win with full concentration each of those hours.
Just having fun messing around for 12+ hours is probably about as good as half an hour of practice.