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Poll: The Greatest PROTOSS player of all time is?Bisu (Revolutionist, Beesuit, ninja, Girly Boy) (203) 41% Stork (Including him for the sake of fanboys) (113) 23% Nal_ra (The Dreamer, The Wizard, The cheeser) (111) 23% Reach (MANtoss, Muscular Army dude) (31) 6% Playgrrr (Most succesful foreign progamer ever) (19) 4% Saft (could carrier cheese like no other) (7) 1% Garimto (ssregitoss, known for his mass units and mass gateways, dethroned emperor) (7) 1% 491 total votes Your vote: The Greatest PROTOSS player of all time is? (Vote): Nal_ra (The Dreamer, The Wizard, The cheeser) (Vote): Reach (MANtoss, Muscular Army dude) (Vote): Bisu (Revolutionist, Beesuit, ninja, Girly Boy) (Vote): Playgrrr (Most succesful foreign progamer ever) (Vote): Saft (could carrier cheese like no other) (Vote): Stork (Including him for the sake of fanboys) (Vote): Garimto (ssregitoss, known for his mass units and mass gateways, dethroned emperor)
There was a time when PROTOSS was a mighty force and everyone feared the might of Aiur, a time when playgrrrr's turtle carriers would destroy terran opponents, a time when Garimto's mass units could overcome the micro of the mighty emperor 'Boxer', a time when Nal_ra could destroy terran and zerg alike with scout openings ,a time when Bisu's corsairs would eat the overlords of all zergs, but my friends it's not this day! Today the pride of Aiur is in tatters, our greatest pride is that none of us were implicated in the match fixing scandal. Flash and Jaedong have destroyed all protoss in their path and ravaged their babies with 80%'ish winrates. Our main hopes today are that one day Kal will not choke or Bisu's PvT will one day improve, but it all seems so far away.
Let us now bask in memories past and choose the greatest protoss. My poll will include the players I feel deserve inclusion, some people may not agree, there will be no IntoTheRainbow's, Foru's or Nazgul's here.
I voted for Nal_ra, because I felt he had a unique playstyle and many special builds. He could Macro it up, Cheese it up and had good micro. In general a very intelligent player. I was torn because Saft was the player who taught me to carrier cheese and it has given me wins even over A-ranked terran-players on the old-pgtour. Had he gone to Korea, he would have been a success. On the other hand, Garimto always was an interesting player and managed to dethrone the emperor! Plus there was a lot of speculation about him being involved with the mafia after his OSL final where he sadly retired. The rivalry I enjoyed the most was probably Reach vs Oov and reach's style was very 'manly', with hordes of zealots charging into mines like there was no tomorrow. Bisu also deserves a mention for being the most succesfull toss ever and being the only protoss to overcome the 'Evil Savior' as well as breaking ZvP imba for a period of time.
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woot first vote
bisu fighting =]
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BISUUUUUUUUUUUU
Edit:
Good job guys, bisu is now ahead :D
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Nal Ra without any question.
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bisu most starleagues and totally revolutionized PvZ.
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Kim Taek Yong ~ corssair / DT drop reaver :D
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Stork is the greatest. Bisu burned brighter for a while but that was fueled by a build changeup. Stork is the veteran and always has been, always will be the greatest Protoss ever
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considering, that stork was always there in the finals , the most constant protos ever , so stork , go dinotoss
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Stork by far...
On August 25 2010 20:58 Pratoss wrote: bisu most starleagues and totally revolutionized PvZ. That build was invented by Dazeang but Bisu used in the finals against Savior and its called Bisu build instead of Daezang build -.- and yes he got the most starleagues. Bisu havent invented anything in his whole sc carrer. He should be called Kakashi toss because the only thing Bisu is good is and that is to copy other ppl stuff and just use it better than the original but that was before now he is kinda terrible in pvt and mediocre in pvp and still decent in pvz
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srsly .. Stork is by far the best protoss ever ..
Bisu is a one trick pony .. stork is your swiss knife ..
and what is this no-love for stork?? WTF
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rA no question
Also this poll is gonna be rigged, isnt it common knowledge that bisu is the most popular toss and stork is everyones second favorite? Also every KT (and some old school GO fans) will pick nal_ra idk about rest X_X
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I'm a terran player. My respect for the ManToss and Nal_rA is immeasurable.
That said, Garimto vs BoxeR on on Neo Forbidden Zone sticks out in my mind. If you haven't seen it yet, you should.
There was a time when the measure of a Protoss player was not his success per se, but the ability to magick the crowd. Nal_rA and Reach both exhibited these qualities but they both stem from the glory that is Garimto (Nal_rA's recall on Power Lines is a direct descendant of the NFZ game with BoxeR, a continuation of glory by other means if you will.) Reach achieved glory by besting BoxeR and his games against iloveoov (in particular his game on Mercury where he out macroed the gorilla.)
The fact that Bisu is topping the poll is abominable. Stork, I could somewhat tolerate that, but really it should be Garimto, Reach, or Nal_rA.
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rA influenced the most people. Stork was also influential, and I find him better then Bisu. Sure, Bisu has the most golds, but he sucks now, and banked on his multitasking. Strategically he just stole until he could steal no more.
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On August 25 2010 21:36 Gryffindor_us wrote: I'm a terran player. My respect for the ManToss and Nal_rA is immeasurable.
That said, Garimto vs BoxeR on on Neo Forbidden Zone sticks out in my mind. If you haven't seen it yet, you should.
There was a time when the measure of a Protoss player was not his success per se, but the ability to magick the crowd. Nal_rA and Reach both exhibited these qualities but they both stem from the glory that is Garimto (Nal_rA's recall on Power Lines is a direct descendant of the NFZ game with BoxeR, a continuation of glory by other means if you will.)
The fact that Bisu is topping the poll is abominable. Stork, I could somewhat tolerate that, but really it should be Garimto, Reach, or Nal_rA.
it would have been ra for me but seeing there was no love for Stork .. WTF is that?
ra was great .. but im here because stork vs bisu and bisu is winning which is, in your words is an abominable :D
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But honestly, Grrr came up with a lot of strategies in the time that there were no replays, won an OSL, and helped popularize BW. I'm really torn here..
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its either pick Dinotoss, Birdtoss, or Silver Surfer Toss
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On August 25 2010 21:41 ZZangDreamjOy wrote: But honestly, Grrr came up with a lot of strategies in the time that there were no replays, won an OSL, and helped popularize BW. I'm really torn here.. He's a fellow countryman as well......
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I didn't see horang2 on the list...
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On August 25 2010 21:44 Kashll wrote: I didn't see horang2 on the list... ROFLMAO
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Ra or Reach, probably Reach...
The poll shows how many newcomers there are to TL
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Impossible to choice between Nal_ra and Bisu. I'll give my vote to Nal_ra but only because he has fewer votes than bisu.
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Stork, Ra, or Reach
Any other answer is wrong. imo of course. ^^
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Come on guys, Starleague = OSL, Starcraft League = MSL. Bisu has no Starleague title
On August 25 2010 21:20 SkelA wrote: Bisu havent invented anything in his whole sc carrer. He should be called Kakashi toss because the only thing Bisu is good is and that is to copy other ppl stuff and just use it better than the original but that was before now he is kinda terrible in pvt and mediocre in pvp and still decent in pvz
I was under the impression that while sair dt is not new, Bisu invented the specific opening of forge-expanding into sair-dt?
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I love bisu, but his vs t is out of the question. Atm, i prefer stork because imo he is more solid than bisu in general.
But i have to admit: bisu pulls off some miraculous things what stork seldom does. And it's worth every admiration he gets.
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Where's Kingdom or IntoTheRainbow? T1 fan represent!
Nal_rA, I'd say. But he really disappointed me in the twilight of his career when he kept repeating the same predictable builds, so unlike the peak of his play.
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United Arab Emirates5090 Posts
Nal_ra and Reach
too many young kids in this thread.
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Many of these players are before my time, but watching oldboy i gained an appreciation for Nal_ra which caused me to watch his VODs. Bisu would win if this was a beauty contest.
I will obviously check out these other players now, but i must choose Na_ra. The fanboy in me won't allow anything else.
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On August 25 2010 22:14 bearbuddy wrote:Come on guys, Starleague = OSL, Starcraft League = MSL. Bisu has no Starleague title Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 21:20 SkelA wrote: Bisu havent invented anything in his whole sc carrer. He should be called Kakashi toss because the only thing Bisu is good is and that is to copy other ppl stuff and just use it better than the original but that was before now he is kinda terrible in pvt and mediocre in pvp and still decent in pvz I was under the impression that while sair dt is not new, Bisu invented the specific opening of forge-expanding into sair-dt?
Not at all Sair-Dark Templar openings were even used in the dark days of starcraft, when Bisu was still in his diapers, but from 1-base.
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how is this even a poll?
NAL_RA all the way
sidenote: haha nice of you to include our swedish legend SaFT :D
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On August 25 2010 22:20 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 22:14 bearbuddy wrote:Come on guys, Starleague = OSL, Starcraft League = MSL. Bisu has no Starleague title On August 25 2010 21:20 SkelA wrote: Bisu havent invented anything in his whole sc carrer. He should be called Kakashi toss because the only thing Bisu is good is and that is to copy other ppl stuff and just use it better than the original but that was before now he is kinda terrible in pvt and mediocre in pvp and still decent in pvz I was under the impression that while sair dt is not new, Bisu invented the specific opening of forge-expanding into sair-dt? Not at all Sair-Dark Templar openings were even used in the dark days of starcraft, when Bisu was still in his diapers, but from 1-base.
Right, that's why I mentioned that specific build is invented by Bisu. I don't remember seeing any forge expand into sair-dt before Bisu's date with Savior.
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On August 25 2010 22:16 Zona wrote: Where's Kingdom or IntoTheRainbow? T1 fan represent!
Nal_rA, I'd say. But he really disappointed me in the twilight of his career when he kept repeating the same predictable builds, so unlike the peak of his play.
I'll be honest with you, Kingdom probably warranted a spot in this thread, but if you take Kingdom, you gotta take TheRock, Zeus and Foru and then all hell breaks loose. This was just the creme de la creme in my opinion. IntoTheRainbow never did much except for doing strange and costly builds that were ineffective but made for fun games. Take him you gotta take Nazgul for his Macro and Elky for his toss period, but that wouldn't be right, the poll would become too long.
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On August 25 2010 22:26 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 22:16 Zona wrote: Where's Kingdom or IntoTheRainbow? T1 fan represent!
Nal_rA, I'd say. But he really disappointed me in the twilight of his career when he kept repeating the same predictable builds, so unlike the peak of his play. I'll be honest with you, Kingdom probably warranted a spot in this thread, but if you take Kingdom, you gotta take TheRock, Zeus and Foru and then all hell breaks loose. This was just the creme de la creme in my opinion. IntoTheRainbow never did much except for doing strange and costly builds that were ineffective but made for fun games. Take him you gotta take Nazgul for his Macro and Elky for his toss period, but that wouldn't be right, the poll would become too long.
IntoTheRainbow, no. IntoTheRain, arguable. Saft? No, sorry :O. I agree that the poll becomes cumbersome if you start including some of the other players but the pool is already bloated.
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On August 25 2010 22:26 bearbuddy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 22:20 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:On August 25 2010 22:14 bearbuddy wrote:Come on guys, Starleague = OSL, Starcraft League = MSL. Bisu has no Starleague title On August 25 2010 21:20 SkelA wrote: Bisu havent invented anything in his whole sc carrer. He should be called Kakashi toss because the only thing Bisu is good is and that is to copy other ppl stuff and just use it better than the original but that was before now he is kinda terrible in pvt and mediocre in pvp and still decent in pvz I was under the impression that while sair dt is not new, Bisu invented the specific opening of forge-expanding into sair-dt? Not at all Sair-Dark Templar openings were even used in the dark days of starcraft, when Bisu was still in his diapers, but from 1-base. Right, that's why I mentioned that specific build is invented by Bisu. I don't remember seeing any forge expand into sair-dt before Bisu's date with Savior. My mistake, I should learn to read posts properly.
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well, to be able to compete with bisu fanboys you should make only 2 options: Bisu or Other, this kind of threads are useless's nonetheless
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9069 Posts
not to get into sematics but Bisu is by far and away the best protoss player ever, if you are asking about greatness, skill isnt the only measure and nal_ra will be most likely the top candidate for #1. even so Bisu is the best looking, the best skillwise and the greatest protoss player ever
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On August 25 2010 22:32 disciple wrote: not to get into sematics but Bisu is by far and away the best protoss player ever, if you are asking about greatness, skill isnt the only measure and nal_ra will be most likely the top candidate for #1. even so Bisu is the best looking, the best skillwise and the greatest protoss player ever
Bisu looks like he was beaten with an uglystick compared to Reach
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How is Mantoss not winning this poll? There's something very wrong here.
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rA for sure
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Bisu in term of achievement and dominance ...
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Maybe a bit sad that the foreigners representing are only managing a meager 2,5% of the full vote on a foreign forum. Ah well, guess it shows teamliquid aint racially biased. Sure are many people voting for Bisu's girly looks though *sigh*. Real broodwar geniuses look like Nal_ra end of story or are manly like MANtoss or GARIMTO.
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On August 25 2010 22:46 Evil_Monkey_ wrote: Maybe a bit sad that the foreigners representing are only managing a meager 2,5% of the full vote on a foreign forum. Ah well, guess it shows teamliquid aint racially biased. Sure are many people voting for Bisu's girly looks though *sigh*. Real broodwar geniuses look like Nal_ra end of story or are manly like MANtoss or GARIMTO.
This has actually been done before. Favorite toss != best toss, and mechanics win you games in the modern era.
The Previous Poll
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ra no question. he played toss like it was never played before nor after.
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Storks got my vote. 5+ years and still going strong. Longevity ftwwwww...
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12 got it right rest are just trolls
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This poll is tearing me apart ):
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GARIMTO all the way... If you beat Boxer in a series as epic as his was then you are definitely the best protoss of all time. Also, that series and one of Boxer vs. Yellow were the first pro games I watched and brought me into the starcraft world. GARIMTO fighting!
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Nal_rA obviously... Bisu beat savior and had a good pvz.... congrats but that's not good enough.
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What is this? This doesn't even need a poll. Bisu all the way.
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Kim Taek Yong the Protoss revolutionist, without a doubt.
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On August 25 2010 22:46 Evil_Monkey_ wrote: Maybe a bit sad that the foreigners representing are only managing a meager 2,5% of the full vote on a foreign forum. Ah well, guess it shows teamliquid aint racially biased. Sure are many people voting for Bisu's girly looks though *sigh*. Real broodwar geniuses look like Nal_ra end of story or are manly like MANtoss or GARIMTO. Or, maybe it's just the fact that the Korean progamers have always been the most successful, the most skillful, and the most influential BW players.
yeanoow.
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Nal_rA all the way! revolutionized the protoss race for sure
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Close call between Stork and Garimto.
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Nal_ra, only protoss to win both an OSL and MSL.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
I've been around the proscene for a good 7 years now.
I was there after Garimto and before Reach.
Bisu is still the strongest thing Protoss had to a savior.
Strong in all matchups, crushing everybody. And trading punches with Jaedong / Flash.
Next in line would be Stork, then Nal_ra, then Reach.
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Stork, because I'm a fanboy.
He also escaped the Kong-Line
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I voted for Bisu But the toss I like the most is without a doubt Nal_rA
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most definitely Bisu. he is after all the Revolutionist
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If im not mistaken Stork is the ONLY player that got winning records against JD and Flash and possibly Bisu.Can anyone confrim this ?
Thats more than enough for me.
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On August 26 2010 00:03 SkelA wrote: If im not mistaken Stork is the ONLY player that got winning records against JD and Flash and possibly Bisu.Can anyone confrim this ?
Thats more than enough for me.
He does, winning record against Jaedong, Flash AND Bisu.
Incredible. He's got the skill, he is just anti-clutch.
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why you put saft in this list is beyond me..
I'm guessing Bisu is the closest to being greatest, altho it's somehow 'wrong' to pick anyone..
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who ever did not vote for bisu, is really really to new school and should learn some proper manners. rofl edit: who ever did not vote for nal_ra*****,
i actually made that mistake so i kept it as is, since its funny considering i was complaining. lol
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I like bisu but.....
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Where's Guemchi?
Other than that Bisu
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Some thought on some of the candidates.
Reach
- The longevity of his career alone makes his case as the greatest of his race quite strong. - A 2v2 master, has the most number of wins of any player that participated in team play on television. - Oftens battled as the lone representative of the protoss race. - His style of play often lead to captivating games that was something of an emotional rollercoaster for the viewers, and due to his immense presence within the race in the early years of the progaming scene, many will consider him to be the greatest.
Nal Ra
- His career lacks the longetivity of Reach, but I personally rate him over Reach. - Won numerous honours that includes OSL 1st place, MSL 1st place, ProLeague 1st place (multiple times), TeamLeague 1st place (multiple times), ProLeague MVP (multiple times), there's almost no trophy that he failed to capture during his glorious career. - Had a mind-blowing way of playing his race that captured the imagination of the new wave of protoss gamers. I believe Nal Ra had more impact on his race than any other gamer. - The first protoss gamer to really rake in the trophies (with such style too), as well as having an other-worldly element (at the time) in his playing style makes him a personal favourite of mine.
Stork
- Built up a superb career that is not lacking in longevity, and managed to be productive in terms of trophies won. - Enjoyed great success in multiple competitons including the OSL, ProLeague, WCG. - Probably has the greatest all round success, but has no significant trump card that differentiates himself from the other protoss legends.
Bisu
- Talent-wise, the most skilled protoss player to ever grace the planet. - Enjoyed tremendous success in the MSL, and has managed to win more individual leagues than any other protoss gamer (whether Kespa-officiated or not). - Had one season of enormous performance in the ProLeague, that will probably never be surpassed by a protoss gamer. - Already established himself as the greatest protosss of all time in many people eyes despite his relatively late debut compared to the other protoss legends.
I'm quite surprised by how many are quick to dismiss Reach as the greatest protoss of all time, althought I too never rated him that highly. Garimto and Giyom are way too old school for me to comment on. I've heard that when Giyom ruled the Starcraft universe with an iron fist, he was comfortable with all three races (I've read that his zerg play was greatly feared). Doesn't he have a better case for being the greatest Starcraft player ever, rather than the greatest protoss player ever, since he was way over the hill by the time he became a protoss-only player?
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On August 25 2010 21:20 SkelA wrote:Stork by far... Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 20:58 Pratoss wrote: bisu most starleagues and totally revolutionized PvZ. That build was invented by Dazeang but Bisu used in the finals against Savior and its called Bisu build instead of Daezang build -.- and yes he got the most starleagues. Bisu havent invented anything in his whole sc carrer. He should be called Kakashi toss because the only thing Bisu is good is and that is to copy other ppl stuff and just use it better than the original but that was before now he is kinda terrible in pvt and mediocre in pvp and still decent in pvz Bisu did it best though
Going to go with
REACH
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How is this even a question?
Nal_Ra was incredible. His style was pure art and he achieved a lot, too. I can only hope that the people not voting for nal_ra haevn't been around long enough to know him...
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Could someone kindly remind me how many protoss bonjwa's we had and who they were?
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I know everyone loves bisu(including me) but he cannot be considered the best toss ever. He is just simply too inconsistent
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Nal_Ra all the way. He was the first progamer I ever watched and his creativity was so captivating. My biggest wish was that Old Boy worked out for him and he could return to BW.
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Stork=Ra>Reach>Bisu. Voted Stork because of the way the poll is phrased :p
On August 26 2010 01:28 Manit0u wrote: Could someone kindly remind me how many protoss bonjwa's we had and who they were? None ?
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How can anyone say rA is not the best Toss ever? He effectively MADE the Toss FE and sair/reaver.
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On August 26 2010 01:47 Garrl wrote: How can anyone say rA is not the best Toss ever? He effectively MADE the Toss FE and sair/reaver. I knew you would vote Nal_ra you made a good post about the some of the current lacks of sc2, showing your smarts.
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On August 25 2010 23:45 Tien wrote: I've been around the proscene for a good 7 years now.
I was there after Garimto and before Reach.
Bisu is still the strongest thing Protoss had to a savior.
Strong in all matchups, crushing everybody. And trading punches with Jaedong / Flash.
Next in line would be Stork, then Nal_ra, then Reach.
Stork has a much better record vs Jaedong/Flash then Bisu does. He's been around for much longer too.
All you Bisu fanboys need to stop coming out of the woodworks to praise someone who had some easy MSL wins other then vs sAviOr, who did not adapt at all to his build, WHICH BTW was made by other protosses, and the exact build Bisu uses was created by BeSt. He's mechanically good, has the most golds, but he's not the best of all time ffs.
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Bisu? Are you guys kidding me?
Mantoss ftw
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
Why is Anytime not on that list? >.<
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United States7481 Posts
excuse me where is perfectman
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
On August 26 2010 02:05 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 23:45 Tien wrote: I've been around the proscene for a good 7 years now.
I was there after Garimto and before Reach.
Bisu is still the strongest thing Protoss had to a savior.
Strong in all matchups, crushing everybody. And trading punches with Jaedong / Flash.
Next in line would be Stork, then Nal_ra, then Reach. Stork has a much better record vs Jaedong/Flash then Bisu does. He's been around for much longer too. All you Bisu fanboys need to stop coming out of the woodworks to praise someone who had some easy MSL wins other then vs sAviOr, who did not adapt at all to his build, WHICH BTW was made by other protosses, and the exact build Bisu uses was created by BeSt. He's mechanically good, has the most golds, but he's not the best of all time ffs.
His 4 MSL final appearances are anything but easy. He even took one against Stork.
And it doesn't matter if some other protoss started the build. Bisu is the revolutionist that took the build and became the gold standard for all other Protosses to play PvZ his way.
Same with Julyzerg and the muta micro.
Bisu did to Protoss what Savior did for Zerg. Before Savior, Zergs were playing ZvT like Protosses were playing PvZ. Random builds and complete chaos.
Bisu is the best thing that happened to the Protoss race. Nal_ra was good, so was Stork. But before Bisu, none of them had a standard answer for zerg.
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I think this list needs BeSt. He's going to be the next bonjwa, and the first toss to achieve it. You heard it here first.
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Nal_Ra or Stork.... Man Stork has been around for so long and really has to be the most powerful protoss ever imo. But Nal_Ra actually invented protoss. Beesuit hasn't really been able to maintain his dominance for long enough for me to be able to put him over Stork.
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Bisu ofcourse. Anyone voting fotherwise knows they're lying.
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I'm not even sure half the people here even know how awesome grrr... really was.
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stork i would say has been the most consistent protoss for the last 3-4 years.
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Stork <3 Samsung Khan fighting!
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Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
Please remove all options except: Nal_rA Stork Garimto Reach
Reasons being: Saft, albeit being a irl friend - certainly the top foreigner for a while, but first of all still a bit behind the koreans (tho very small margin for PvT and PvP), the gap in PvZ was huge though as he never practiced that matchup seriously. I for one have huge plus stats on him in ZvP, so does many others.
Grrr: Yes, he won a starleague. Check which race got him to korea -> include him in a list of zergs instead. He didnt do anything to protoss, except post a decent build (1 gate zeals and expo on like 23-25ish supply) - any decent zerg raped it in either the first or second try though due to the horrible imbalance at that time.
Bisu: Might be possible to include but i certainly dont see how valid it would be. IntoTheRain played PvZ on a level above all other protosses in the world when he got 3rd in the KBK Slayer won, if that is all it takes. Also, Bisu got "good" 2007, so did Stork (or slightly earlier) - Stork > Bisu when it comes to achievments, overall playing level, results vs other top players.
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Then again Bisu won the most starleagues out of all of em so...
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STORK FOREVER, BITCHES!!!
Bisu has 3 MSL, but he failed always at the big competition as its OSL
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beeeeeeesuit for multi-tasking and perfecting sair-dt
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Backho is clearly the most awesome protoss of all time. The best? I'd go with stork.
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lol how can anyone not vote Bisu?
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United States10774 Posts
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The Greatest Executor
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Bisu is The Prince of Protoss. I'm glad the poll reflects that.
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Teamliquid is clearly broken if Reach doesnt win this vote.
Dont let me down TL!
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United States11390 Posts
Too many people just listing names and not enough discussion.
Plus, the answer is Backho anyways.
This thread is now zizi yO'd.
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