In this post he said "I'm considering changing my race. Please recommend the race which
seems to be more suitable for me"
He thinks protoss is so underpowered that no one playing protoss can actually win the
tournament like GSL.
Forum Index > Closed |
Critical loss
France31 Posts
In this post he said "I'm considering changing my race. Please recommend the race which seems to be more suitable for me" He thinks protoss is so underpowered that no one playing protoss can actually win the tournament like GSL. | ||
TMTurtle
183 Posts
Congrats NEXGenius. | ||
Silidons
United States2813 Posts
| ||
backtoback
Canada1276 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:21 Silidons wrote: fuck me sideways man wtf LOL!!!! I laugh at the people calling me stupid that i switched from Toss to Terran when retail hit HAHA! | ||
Sewi
Germany1697 Posts
Nerf Terran -> Boxer wants to switch Nerf Toss (Or dont make them stronger) -> Genius wants to switch But btw, Any more infos on this? Did he say something about specific units or matchups? Everyone knows that atm it is impossible for any Toss to win GSL so I wonder if there was some more specific talk?! | ||
lol12tree
Canada88 Posts
What we do know is that sSKS won the TSL Clan Tournament defeating SangHo in the finals. TesteR changed his race to Terran to TvP SangHo and won. I would like to see a Terran change to protoss to PvT a high level Terran. | ||
Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
needs a bit more balance whining though. Jokes aside, I'm not really sure what to think of protoss right now. But I dont think they're underpowered. | ||
Badjez.
Sweden56 Posts
Oh well, it worked for Fruitdealer so i guess we will see some protoss buffs soon. | ||
Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
We all rage and have our moments, but I mean it's pretty damn obvious Protoss is in a spot where Zerg was before the reaper/bunker and roach range upgrade. Toss is unforgiving (4-gate aside which is very uncommon at the very highest level because it's not that hard to stop) and can be abused quite hard by the other races, but there will appear better and more refined builds and that will even out the playing field eventually. Maybe there will also be a tiny buff who knows.. Anyway, I just fucking hate when they cry like this.. | ||
Gotmog
Serbia899 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:23 Sewi wrote: So Blizzard has to make a decison. Nerf Terran -> Boxer wants to switch Nerf Toss (Or dont make them stronger) -> Genius wants to switch But btw, Any more infos on this? Did he say something about specific units or matchups? Everyone knows that atm it is impossible for any Toss to win GSL so I wonder if there was some more specific talk?! AND Nerf Zerg ->Fruitdealer, Idra and dimaga want to switch (and TLO chose T i guess) | ||
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:24 lol12tree wrote: Well sSKS has already been saying that TvP all-in timing pushes are over powered in one of the playxp interviews during his fail to qualify in GSL2 (not 3). I have no definitive source on this so don't quote me. What we do know is that sSKS won the TSL Clan Tournament defeating SangHo in the finals. TesteR changed his race to Terran to TvP SangHo and won. I would like to see a Terran change to protoss to PvT a high level Terran. Thats pretty strong argument if he beats own race by offracing. On topic: Terrans suits Genius better | ||
Highways
Australia6098 Posts
Unless you have enough forcefields or have a heavily larger army, marauders mean that your units cannot escape and you generally lose your whole army in 2 seconds if you accidentally engage. | ||
Ramble
Sweden877 Posts
| ||
lol12tree
Canada88 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:26 bokeevboke wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:24 lol12tree wrote: Well sSKS has already been saying that TvP all-in timing pushes are over powered in one of the playxp interviews during his fail to qualify in GSL2 (not 3). I have no definitive source on this so don't quote me. What we do know is that sSKS won the TSL Clan Tournament defeating SangHo in the finals. TesteR changed his race to Terran to TvP SangHo and won. I would like to see a Terran change to protoss to PvT a high level Terran. Thats pretty strong argument if he beats own race by offracing. Here it is , GOMTV Clan Special : http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens2/news/264 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=167318¤tpage=All (seriously, so much for the "TesteR" is over hyped, hes #1 in TSL but enough of side tracking) On November 11 2010 23:19 adrift wrote: Show nested quote + On November 11 2010 22:55 KiNGxXx wrote: Just tuned in. Can somebody post the results so far please? Tester > Rain Cool > Eternal Clide > Revival Sangho > Smart Tester > Cool Sangho > Clide Tester v Sangho now pretty cool how they have the players casting their teammates. FD casting for tester v sangho On November 11 2010 23:38 Blitzmarine wrote: Here is rough translation of thier last chating; Tester : Oh yeah, Terran imba. Sangho : Yes, it really is. Apparently SangHo & TesteR both believe Terran > Protoss (not suprising as they train together, if one found out new builds to counteract, the other would certainly learn ) You can watch those games here apparently http://www.soku.com/search_video/q_gomtv星际2special_orderby_1_page_2.html | ||
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:28 Highways wrote: Don't wanna sound like a troll but I've been saying this since day1, Marauders are the biggest joke of a unit ever. Unless you have enough forcefields or have a heavily larger army, marauders mean that your units cannot escape and you generally lose your whole army in 2 seconds if you accidentally engage. Actually marines are the problem if you test it and according to Blizzard. | ||
Panoptic
United Kingdom515 Posts
If you're planning on switching, why not just keep quiet about it? | ||
bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
Most of them almost always never change in the end because Blizzard would release a patch that addresses their issue with the race. Just stay patient and persevere. SC2 is still too new for Blizzard to ignore. | ||
Critical loss
France31 Posts
on Gisado stream chat. | ||
Xanatoss
Germany539 Posts
scnr | ||
Zaros
United Kingdom3673 Posts
| ||
Piski
Finland3461 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:26 Gotmog wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:23 Sewi wrote: So Blizzard has to make a decison. Nerf Terran -> Boxer wants to switch Nerf Toss (Or dont make them stronger) -> Genius wants to switch But btw, Any more infos on this? Did he say something about specific units or matchups? Everyone knows that atm it is impossible for any Toss to win GSL so I wonder if there was some more specific talk?! AND Nerf Zerg ->Fruitdealer, Idra and dimaga want to switch (and TLO chose T i guess) Don't nerf anything -> Buff toss | ||
Tropics
United Kingdom1132 Posts
pretty sure that was post roach range buff too | ||
adrenaLinG
Canada676 Posts
I recommend NEXGenius play Zerg since he's whining Seriously though P's anti-air is crap, and stalkers are just not cost-efficient compared to roaches, and gateway units get rocked by any stimmed bio | ||
lol12tree
Canada88 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:30 Panoptic wrote: I don't know about you guys but I'm getting kind of tired of big-name players constantly threatening to switch. It seems...just...a bit pathetic. I know a lot of players make their living from this game, so balance is more important to them than anyone. It's just that it fuels the masses into going: "see! my race is UP QQ" etc etc. It harms the community and adds unnecessary fuel to the fire. And whilst toss might very well be UP, I can't help but be cynical about their motives for making these announcements. If you're planning on switching, why not just keep quiet about it? huh? its not like they are running around saying, MY RACE IS UP, IMA CHANGE !!!! No. Its Genius that wants to change and asking fans which would they rather him change to. HE HAS ALREADY MADE UP HIS MIND TO CHANGE HIS RACE. That is very different than Genius asking "should I change race?" | ||
Tone_
United Kingdom554 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:25 Kyuki wrote: This is so sad.. Can top players STOP CRYING IN THE OPEN. :< We all rage and have our moments, but I mean it's pretty damn obvious Protoss is in a spot where Zerg was before the reaper/bunker and roach range upgrade. Toss is unforgiving (4-gate aside which is very uncommon at the very highest level because it's not that hard to stop) and can be abused quite hard by the other races, but there will appear better and more refined builds and that will even out the playing field eventually. Maybe there will also be a tiny buff who knows.. Anyway, I just fucking hate when they cry like this.. Yeah who'd expect a professional sc2 player to talk in the open about a major change in his career, directly to the community. Why does this annoy you? He' just simply put why and what he's doing. I personally just fucking hate when people cry on forums at players who've done nothing but talk a little to the community. Shame to see Genius go T but there is a problem atm and he's got his own game to think about. | ||
gnutz
Germany666 Posts
And the considering of race switch comes quite late imo, korean protosses cried since gsl 2 | ||
dtz
5834 Posts
race loyalty in starcraft is such a weird phenomenom anyway lol.i find it very amusing when people bring that up. sad for protoss though =( | ||
Licmyobelisk
Philippines3682 Posts
| ||
lol12tree
Canada88 Posts
| ||
ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:25 Kyuki wrote: This is so sad.. Can top players STOP CRYING IN THE OPEN. :< We all rage and have our moments, but I mean it's pretty damn obvious Protoss is in a spot where Zerg was before the reaper/bunker and roach range upgrade. Toss is unforgiving (4-gate aside which is very uncommon at the very highest level because it's not that hard to stop) and can be abused quite hard by the other races, but there will appear better and more refined builds and that will even out the playing field eventually. Maybe there will also be a tiny buff who knows.. Anyway, I just fucking hate when they cry like this.. Well... This is his life. No, really, I mean this is his life. His career. It's what he does. He wants to make money from it. And that post obviously contained no whining. It was a really short post. Besides, if you thought you deserved to be top 4 in GSL based on skill but found yourself being knocked out earlier based on what you perceive to be imbalances, I would call you an idiot for not trying to argue your case. | ||
lol12tree
Canada88 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:37 Licmyobelisk wrote: See this guy, saying that protoss was the strongest race in GSL 2 then after being defeated time for me to switch race... what a champ.. source? | ||
ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:32 Tropics wrote: pretty funny considering a month or two ago he said protoss was the strongest race pretty sure that was post roach range buff too That was when he thought he was going to win GSL. Then intotherainbow killed him... | ||
Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
| ||
Panoptic
United Kingdom515 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:33 lol12tree wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:30 Panoptic wrote: I don't know about you guys but I'm getting kind of tired of big-name players constantly threatening to switch. It seems...just...a bit pathetic. I know a lot of players make their living from this game, so balance is more important to them than anyone. It's just that it fuels the masses into going: "see! my race is UP QQ" etc etc. It harms the community and adds unnecessary fuel to the fire. And whilst toss might very well be UP, I can't help but be cynical about their motives for making these announcements. If you're planning on switching, why not just keep quiet about it? huh? its not like they are running around saying, MY RACE IS UP, IMA CHANGE !!!! No. Its Genius that wants to change and asking fans which would they rather him change to. HE HAS ALREADY MADE UP HIS MIND TO CHANGE HIS RACE. That is very different than Genius asking "should I change race?" Whilst it's clear that he didn't put it quite like that, I would say the gist of what he said is exactly the same....and I don't have a massive problem with it, I'm merely saying that it ends up justifying a lot of whining on forums like these (which is a bad thing imo), regardless of whether there's a balance issue. And please...there's no need for caps. | ||
GTR
51132 Posts
on an anecdote, i don't remember at all more than one bw progamer complaining about their race and threatening to change, the only instance i remember was chojja (to t) back when maps made zvt near impossible (nostalgia, gaema... yeh). | ||
ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:40 Saechiis wrote: Funny that Terran still gets the blame for imbalance when it has been receiving nothing but nerfs since TvP was considered the most balanced MU. When you look at GSL percentages it's Zergs taking places from Toss, not Terran. But it's terrans that knock out protosses. And they do it because of the incredibly imbalanced early game PvT. | ||
Licmyobelisk
Philippines3682 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:39 lol12tree wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:37 Licmyobelisk wrote: See this guy, saying that protoss was the strongest race in GSL 2 then after being defeated time for me to switch race... what a champ.. source? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=165876 find it yourself partner.. it's either I'm wrong that he said protoss is the strongest race or he said that ITR is a weak terran I dunno... | ||
frucisky
Singapore2170 Posts
TvZ has shifted the pressure on terran to do something or lose. Previously it was about zerg staying alive vs dying within the first few minutes. | ||
Pervect
1280 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:43 frucisky wrote: ...Faster warp gate research... Yeah, make 4 gates more powerful without really changing anything after the first six minutes of the game. That'll help... | ||
Liquid`Nazgul
22426 Posts
It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. The worst thing of it all may just be that people actually logon to TL and use the opinion of these players to support their balance whines, even though it's pretty damn obvious none of these players actually have a clue about balance and just want their own race to be better. In a way I'm glad it's a Protoss doing it now because now if I yell at him I won't be attacked by angry Zerg and Terran players saying that it isn't my race that is underpowered. | ||
Licmyobelisk
Philippines3682 Posts
or NexGenius is pretty bad in decision making... On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. I guess it's just not the same as before naz... I don't know how this whining shit started but it's turning into an EMO TREND FEST... | ||
kYem
United Kingdom412 Posts
| ||
lol12tree
Canada88 Posts
As a protoss player myself I am ashamed of some of these suggestions, "faster warp gate research?" wth? As a 1900 toss , that is FINE. This thread is on Genius and we should be speculating more information on what he and people around him have to say and not what every other toss has to whine about. | ||
Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
| ||
Spidinko
Slovakia1174 Posts
I understand why he'd want to switch if he thinks he won't get far with P. Hope he won't switch, though. | ||
dtz
5834 Posts
Look what happened after Cool whined. This combined with the fact that it is public knowledge that CheckPrime is in constant contact with David Kim and has been sending Blizzard "whine e-mails" lead to patches that significantly buffed zerg. Without those 2 patches, GSL 1 ,2,and 3 might have different winners. The "whining" was so succesful that Check said he received a lot of flame for that and said that he'll shut up for now. But considering the potential financial reward and how compeititive future GSLs will be, this is the best time to get wins becaus it is gonna get harder for everyone. I think it makes complete sense to whine to get a buff especially with the dwindling Protoss number and the real possibility of not having any P in ro4 for the third time in a row. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34456 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:19 Critical loss wrote: based on his post in playxp: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/bbs/view.php?article_id=2354027&page=2 In this post he said "I'm considering changing my race. Please recommend the race which seems to be more suitable for me" He thinks protoss is so underpowered that no one playing protoss can actually win the tournament like GSL. Regarding the part you quoted, is that ALL he said? Because if it is, he isn't really whining, but just asking for the public's opinion. If he did actually complain etc, could you translate what he said? | ||
riesza
66 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:47 Fantistic wrote: Getting bored of reading about top players planning to switch races unless Blizzard does something. Now we'll have Protoss underpowered threads for a week. It's not like we didn't have them for weeks or anything. | ||
lol12tree
Canada88 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. | ||
Licmyobelisk
Philippines3682 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:49 dtz wrote: I don't think they like to whine themselves. It is just that they think (and with good reason) that whining and threathening to change do accelerate Blizzard's patches. Look what happened after Cool whined. This combined with the fact that it is public knowledge that CheckPrime is in constant contact with David Kim and has been sending Blizzard "whine e-mails" lead to patches that significantly buffed zerg. Without those 2 patches, GSL 1 ,2,and 3 might have different winners. The "whining" was so succesful that Check said he received a lot of flame for that and said that he'll shut up for now. But considering the potential financial reward and how compeititive future GSLs will be, this is the best time to get wins becaus it is gonna get harder for everyone. I think it makes complete sense to whine to get a buff especially with the dwindling Protoss number and the real possibility of not having any P in ro4 for the third time in a row. Oh I see, it's more of a business thing not a passion anymore amirite? | ||
dtz
5834 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:50 lol12tree wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. The OP translation says he is considering changing his race. So that means he has not decided yet. Unless you have a more accurate translation in which case ignore this. | ||
lol12tree
Canada88 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:51 dtz wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:50 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. The OP translation says he is considering changing his race. So that means he has not decided yet. Unless you have a more accurate translation in which case ignore this. Bad wording on my part, my argument still stands however that he is not threating to change race, merely asking fans for directions they would like to see him head towards. (logically one would assume he has already decided on "changing race" for had he not, he would not ask fans for guidance to select another race) | ||
WeeKeong
United States282 Posts
| ||
speedphlux
Bulgaria962 Posts
Yeah, sure you can call the new level 1 Void Ray attack buffed, but Protoss air is still ... nowhere. Phoenixes have SOME use, Void Rays have SOME use, but that's it. There comes a time in each game in which your Terran or Zerg opponent have Vikings (or Thors, or BOTH) or Corruptors (or Infestors, or BOTH) and pretty much your whole air becomes nullified. In general, Protoss Air is only good as SURPRISE tactic. Nuff said ? Same goes with Robo units - "Hey, I've got me a crittical mass of Collossi ! Ops - Tanks, Burrowing Roaches, Vikings, Corruptors, Infestors, Bane-drops, EMP, Stimmed Maroders and so on, comes your way.". Or "Hey, Double-Robo Immortals IS DA SHIT ! Ops, Zerglings, Marines, EMP, Thors and Hydras ... And you're dead.". Even if you look back at BETA/Release times, when TLO was still playing Random, he sucked as Protoss, because he didn't had much options. Everything Protoss does gets countered from the other races, not by specific builds, but by playing straight up normal tech path. While the opposite isn't true. Zerg makes Mutas - shit, I better get cannons in my mineral lines and few Stalkers here and there. Terran goes bio-ball timing attack - shit, I don't have enough Sentries, Collossi, Templars. No wonder people want to change away from Protoss. | ||
risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
| ||
robertdinh
803 Posts
Remember these guys are professional gamers, their objective is to make a living and dominate the scene. If they are held back by things that are beyond their control (blizzard's idea of balance) when playing a race, the best thing they can do for themselves as professionals is to pick a stronger race. Obviously they have to measure any setbacks that might cause (learning new style of play with a new race takes time) but look at ssks for example... He has practiced terran here and there for a while and is quite good with it. So him changing to terran would be a great move if protoss stays the way it is. | ||
Liquid`Nazgul
22426 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:50 lol12tree wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. Obviously he isn't going to ever let your opinion influence whichever race he will switch to (which I highly doubt he will do). He is going to play Protoss in the foreseeable future and is not going to switch at all. It's just another way of getting peoples attention and sadly enough it's working. I'll eat my words if he joins the next tournament as z/t. Absolutely no way I see that happening. | ||
Critical loss
France31 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:49 Firebolt145 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:19 Critical loss wrote: based on his post in playxp: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/bbs/view.php?article_id=2354027&page=2 In this post he said "I'm considering changing my race. Please recommend the race which seems to be more suitable for me" He thinks protoss is so underpowered that no one playing protoss can actually win the tournament like GSL. Regarding the part you quoted, is that ALL he said? Because if it is, he isn't really whining, but just asking for the public's opinion. If he did actually complain etc, could you translate what he said? There is nothing written but he complained on Gisado stream. He just said that he felt hard to play protoss against other races because of imbalance. | ||
lol12tree
Canada88 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:55 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:50 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. Obviously he isn't going to ever let your opinion influence whichever race he will switch to (which I highly doubt he will do). He is going to play Protoss in the foreseeable future and is not going to switch at all. It's just another way of getting peoples attention and sadly enough it's working. and you can say that with 100% certainty? right. I think as a pro gamer yourself you should respect other progamer's voice. Sure it may seem BS to you, but until the day I am pretty sure "If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. " is just disrespect last I checked, he didn't post this on TL. | ||
Supamang
United States2298 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:50 lol12tree wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. Sorry man, but I think thats a stupid notion. Genius is a pro player, far better than any of his fans. He would know the nuances of the races much better than any of us, so he wouldnt need any input from his fans. Furthermore, most of his fans would follow him because they like Protoss. Of course they would prefer that hed stay as Protoss above anything else. This sounds like he wants to make the threat but is trying to be sneaky about it, like "No im not an attention whore! Im just asking for input!" | ||
Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:50 Lawdy wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:47 Fantistic wrote: Getting bored of reading about top players planning to switch races unless Blizzard does something. Now we'll have Protoss underpowered threads for a week. It's not like we didn't have them for weeks or anything. Good point. This Genius thing adds more fuel to the fire. | ||
lol12tree
Canada88 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:58 Supamang wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:50 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. Sorry man, but I think thats a stupid notion. Genius is a pro player, far better than any of his fans. He would know the nuances of the races much better than any of us, so he wouldnt need any input from his fans. Furthermore, most of his fans would follow him because they like Protoss. Of course they would prefer that hed stay as Protoss above anything else. This sounds like he wants to make the threat but is trying to be sneaky about it, like "No im not an attention whore! Im just asking for input!" whats up with this biasism, when dimaga voiced his concern and change from Z to possibly T , people took him seriously, so why not genius? Does Dimaga have some sort of special credit behind him that genius doesn't? Fill me in on this one. | ||
ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:54 speedphlux wrote: Well, if I'm correct, every single patch since the BETA, either was nerfing Protoss or didn't do anything with them. Yeah, sure you can call the new level 1 Void Ray attack buffed, but Protoss air is still ... nowhere. Phoenixes have SOME use, Void Rays have SOME use, but that's it. There comes a time in each game in which your Terran or Zerg opponent have Vikings (or Thors, or BOTH) or Corruptors (or Infestors, or BOTH) and pretty much your whole air becomes nullified. In general, Protoss Air is only good as SURPRISE tactic. Nuff said ? Same goes with Robo units - "Hey, I've got me a crittical mass of Collossi ! Ops - Tanks, Burrowing Roaches, Vikings, Corruptors, Infestors, Bane-drops, EMP, Stimmed Maroders and so on, comes your way.". Or "Hey, Double-Robo Immortals IS DA SHIT ! Ops, Zerglings, Marines, EMP, Thors and Hydras ... And you're dead.". Even if you look back at BETA/Release times, when TLO was still playing Random, he sucked as Protoss, because he didn't had much options. Everything Protoss does gets countered from the other races, not by specific builds, but by playing straight up normal tech path. While the opposite isn't true. Zerg makes Mutas - shit, I better get cannons in my mineral lines and few Stalkers here and there. Terran goes bio-ball timing attack - shit, I don't have enough Sentries, Collossi, Templars. No wonder people want to change away from Protoss. Protosses aren't that underpowered... No stats or data anywhere would begin to even remotely suggest that. But it's easier to snipe protosses from tournaments because it's a fragile race. Just watch SangHo's first game vs Foxer in GSL. SangHo misplaces a force field or something and that loses him the game. Now watch Tester vs Foxer semi-finals allstar tournament, game 2 on metalopolis. Tester's second sentry comes out ~5 seconds too late and he can't force field his ramp and he's dead. I don't see many problems with PvZ. But PvT early game is just not fun to play. It's unfair, boring and sometimes just ridiculous. | ||
gnutz
Germany666 Posts
At Pros complaining about whining pros? what do you think of early game TvP? (the reason the most protoss are complaining). Sometimes it looks like the 5rax reaper opening in TvZ if terran plays banshee/raven. (It looks like it, dont know how it is in reality on pro level) | ||
Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:00 lol12tree wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:58 Supamang wrote: On November 21 2010 20:50 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. Sorry man, but I think thats a stupid notion. Genius is a pro player, far better than any of his fans. He would know the nuances of the races much better than any of us, so he wouldnt need any input from his fans. Furthermore, most of his fans would follow him because they like Protoss. Of course they would prefer that hed stay as Protoss above anything else. This sounds like he wants to make the threat but is trying to be sneaky about it, like "No im not an attention whore! Im just asking for input!" whats up with this biasism, when dimaga voiced his concern and change from Z to possibly T , people took him seriously, so why not genius? Does Dimaga have some sort of special credit behind him that genius doesn't? Fill me in on this one. Because back then Zerg was clearly underpowered and all Zergs were in uproar about it. | ||
lol12tree
Canada88 Posts
He may be implying such but he did not say so directly. Heck maybe he thinks PvP is the problem or maybe even PvZ. Lets just not point fngers @ Terran. Discuss is one thing but it seems like everyone has some how magically found out that genius is switching specifically due to PvT (as much as a problem we toss players and most players think it is) we do not know that for certain. | ||
Licmyobelisk
Philippines3682 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:57 lol12tree wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:55 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: On November 21 2010 20:50 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. Obviously he isn't going to ever let your opinion influence whichever race he will switch to (which I highly doubt he will do). He is going to play Protoss in the foreseeable future and is not going to switch at all. It's just another way of getting peoples attention and sadly enough it's working. and you can say that with 100% certainty? right. I think as a pro gamer yourself you should respect other progamer's voice. Sure it may seem BS to you, but until the day I am pretty sure "If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. " is just disrespect last I checked, he didn't post this on TL. damn man, you sure do love nexgenius with all your heart and soul hahahahahaha | ||
goldenwitch
United States338 Posts
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Liquid`Nazgul
22426 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:00 lol12tree wrote: whats up with this biasism, when dimaga voiced his concern and change from Z to possibly T , people took him seriously, so why not genius? Does Dimaga have some sort of special credit behind him that genius doesn't? Fill me in on this one. What Dimaga (and Fruitdealer) did was not cool either. It's not that Fruitdealer/Dimaga have more credibility but just the fact that these statements keep piling up and at one point people catch on to the bs that they are. These guys are all amazing players and they don't need this at all. | ||
Darksoldierr
Hungary2010 Posts
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Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. The worst thing of it all may just be that people actually logon to TL and use the opinion of these players to support their balance whines, even though it's pretty damn obvious none of these players actually have a clue about balance and just want their own race to be better. In a way I'm glad it's a Protoss doing it now because now if I yell at him I won't be attacked by angry Zerg and Terran players saying that it isn't my race that is underpowered. Shouldnt Genius be afforded a bit more trust in his words considering he said to Artosis at the end of GSL2 that he thought that Protoss was the strongest race? If he was playing that game then he wouldnt have fallen for Artosis' troll face and pointy finger indicating to all us noobs that Genius agreed with him. But I do agree it is getting tired with players emailing David Kim and it working it was inevitable though when money is involved. | ||
Ramble
Sweden877 Posts
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lol12tree
Canada88 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:06 Ramble wrote: Nazgul while you are here, mind if shoot you a rather OT question? Will we see you in any future tournaments at all? I liked your play at MLG Dallas. ya why dont u go to the GSL? GSL not enough toss, more toss the better! /offtopic may people please translate some of the korean fan responses? | ||
Liquid`Nazgul
22426 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:06 Ramble wrote: Nazgul while you are here, mind if shoot you a rather OT question? Will we see you in any future tournaments at all? I liked your play at MLG Dallas. I'll drop you a PM don't want to go OT here. | ||
NexUmbra
Scotland3776 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:33 lol12tree wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:30 Panoptic wrote: I don't know about you guys but I'm getting kind of tired of big-name players constantly threatening to switch. It seems...just...a bit pathetic. I know a lot of players make their living from this game, so balance is more important to them than anyone. It's just that it fuels the masses into going: "see! my race is UP QQ" etc etc. It harms the community and adds unnecessary fuel to the fire. And whilst toss might very well be UP, I can't help but be cynical about their motives for making these announcements. If you're planning on switching, why not just keep quiet about it? huh? its not like they are running around saying, MY RACE IS UP, IMA CHANGE !!!! No. Its Genius that wants to change and asking fans which would they rather him change to. HE HAS ALREADY MADE UP HIS MIND TO CHANGE HIS RACE. That is very different than Genius asking "should I change race?" Yeah, half the people in this thread don't seem to understand | ||
Flaunt
New Zealand784 Posts
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GrazerRinge
999 Posts
I think many p just lose very often because when they get a tech decision (gateway / colossi / ht), they let them the opponent way too much time to counter it. Especially p vs t, there were so many cases that p won first big battles, but then lost because their colossi is wiped out in next battle by tons of vikings and the maruaders do the rest. I see tons of p streams on TL who are really solid (response, TTOne etc) and the full potential of p is not fully used yet since most people were focused on the gameplay of t (by easy mechanic and good harass ability till first major patch, also imo with least changes compared to sc1) and z (complicated to play, but very challenging and speedy race when you can pull it off) But i think p could need a buff which would make their only gateway units more valuable like stronger guardian shield. (e.g.: less damage dealt when attacked my heavy armored unit or max 20 damage; you know what i mean ^^) | ||
Critical loss
France31 Posts
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ace246
Australia360 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:01 gnutz wrote: If you come from Wc3/WoW you know that whining is a constant factor in playing Blizzards games. It comes down naturally to the fact that Blizzard decided to patch the game. It's obvious that all players, especially progamers want to make their race easier, but sometimes they are right imo. At Pros complaining about whining pros? what do you think of early game TvP? (the reason the most protoss are complaining). Sometimes it looks like the 5rax reaper opening in TvZ if terran plays banshee/raven. (It looks like it, dont know how it is in reality on pro level) imba whining pretty much derived from wc3 community and that whining phenomenon has been infected to the sc2 community. I don't recall imba whining during the BW era. | ||
rasnj
United States1959 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:54 speedphlux wrote: Well, if I'm correct, every single patch since the BETA, either was nerfing Protoss or didn't do anything with them. Yeah, sure you can call the new level 1 Void Ray attack buffed, but Protoss air is still ... nowhere. Phoenixes have SOME use, Void Rays have SOME use, but that's it. There comes a time in each game in which your Terran or Zerg opponent have Vikings (or Thors, or BOTH) or Corruptors (or Infestors, or BOTH) and pretty much your whole air becomes nullified. In general, Protoss Air is only good as SURPRISE tactic. Nuff said ? Same goes with Robo units - "Hey, I've got me a crittical mass of Collossi ! Ops - Tanks, Burrowing Roaches, Vikings, Corruptors, Infestors, Bane-drops, EMP, Stimmed Maroders and so on, comes your way.". Or "Hey, Double-Robo Immortals IS DA SHIT ! Ops, Zerglings, Marines, EMP, Thors and Hydras ... And you're dead.". Even if you look back at BETA/Release times, when TLO was still playing Random, he sucked as Protoss, because he didn't had much options. Everything Protoss does gets countered from the other races, not by specific builds, but by playing straight up normal tech path. While the opposite isn't true. Zerg makes Mutas - shit, I better get cannons in my mineral lines and few Stalkers here and there. Terran goes bio-ball timing attack - shit, I don't have enough Sentries, Collossi, Templars. No wonder people want to change away from Protoss. Then why don't you switch? (Assuming you're toss which your probe avatar suggests) I really don't understand this half-assed heroic attitude in the sc2 community. It seems that everyone chooses the race they believe to be the weakest, and keep reminding us how they stick with race X and should be lauded for it. Yet they don't carry through with the heroic attitude and feel that since they were heroic enough to stick with X they are entitled to use every single TL thread to bitch about how bad X is. It is a COMPETITIVE game for fucks sake. That means you do what you can to compete for victory (as in sc2 victory, not as in moral victory). Choosing a weak race seems to me to be a weak strategical move, just like going 17hatch. If a person goes 17hatch and keeps complaining that 14hatching people have an advantage people don't commend the 17hatching player for sticking to his guns. It is Blizzard's job to balance the game, but if you believe you are at a disadvantage (whether from inferior strategy, inferior micro, inferior macro, or inferior race) you try to overcome it (whether by improving micro/macro, or trying new races/strategies). NexGenius is free to switch, and he is free to share his thoughts, but I don't really understand why people feel such a need to bitch about it. It's not like you get 1 free race-switch; you can switch whenever you want. | ||
andrewwiggin
Australia435 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:04 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: What Dimaga (and Fruitdealer) did was not cool either. It's not that Fruitdealer/Dimaga have more credibility but just the fact that these statements keep piling up and at one point people catch on to the bs that they are. These guys are all amazing players and they don't need this at all. Amazing enough that maybe they know the game and the matchups a little more than you? If they think there's an imbalance, then that's their opinion. If they want to change their race, and want other people to discuss it, then why not? If progamers aren't allowed to generate discussions about balance, who is? | ||
Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
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dtz
5834 Posts
NexGenius is free to switch, and he is free to share his thoughts, but I don't really understand why people feel such a need to bitch about it. It's not like you get 1 free race-switch; you can switch whenever you want. On that note, is he allowed to change his race in between prelim and ro64? or does he mean after GSL is done. If he is not allowed to, then this makes me even more convinced that this is a "mindgame" statement to Blizzard in order to get a patch somewhere in between. Pretty pointless to announce a race switch before GSL starts when you are not allowed to change. I think i read his interview saying that he hoped for a patch before ro32 or something. But regardless if he will change or not, all the best for Genius. This is a competitive game with huge prize money after all. | ||
Widar
Sweden261 Posts
He did not whine at all, he stated he was gonna change his race, and asked which would suit him the best. I saw not a shread of whine in the post. Quit complaining. And to be honest. Protoss have been the race that complains by far the least of imalance. Compared to Zerg and Terran Protoss has been extremely quit. | ||
GrazerRinge
999 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:03 goldenwitch wrote: It sucks being P because all of our whiners were terribly patient. Because the other races whiners weren't so patient, everyone is fed up with whining. By the time toss players got fed up with playing the underpowered race, there were no ears that are willing to hear the true need that toss has for rebalancing. the point that many toss users are patient you are absolutely right. But imo there is one thing you should consider: When toss does one fight where he underestimate his opponent's army, its almost gg because you need the most resources and time to replace your army compared to all races. For toss, retreat should happen before the fight begins due to lack of mobility. | ||
sqrt
1210 Posts
On that note, is he allowed to change his race in between prelim and ro64? or does he mean after GSL is done. He is not allowed to, you play with the race you registered. Although I am sure that they will let him if he asks really nice. | ||
resilve
United Kingdom678 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:00 ParasitJonte wrote: Protosses aren't that underpowered... No stats or data anywhere would begin to even remotely suggest that. GSL semifinal+ data, and GSL2/3 qualifying data would indicate there is an issue with their representation at the top levels. | ||
maidu
Estonia9 Posts
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:26 bokeevboke wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:24 lol12tree wrote: Well sSKS has already been saying that TvP all-in timing pushes are over powered in one of the playxp interviews during his fail to qualify in GSL2 (not 3). I have no definitive source on this so don't quote me. What we do know is that sSKS won the TSL Clan Tournament defeating SangHo in the finals. TesteR changed his race to Terran to TvP SangHo and won. I would like to see a Terran change to protoss to PvT a high level Terran. Thats pretty strong argument if he beats own race by offracing. On topic: Terrans suits Genius better at this moment, terran suits everyone better. It seems to me that people havent figured out how to abuse zerg properly yet and get closer to its higher skill ceiling, whereas terran is getting more mapped out, so it seems at the moment that terran is far more...fluid? of a race. It allows variety moreso then the other races, which I think is the key point to why Z and P whine about it so much | ||
Entropic
Canada2837 Posts
Protoss confirmed for GSL3 winner | ||
Widar
Sweden261 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:21 maidu wrote: Interesting how things change in a few weeks, in GSL 2 when Artosis was interviewing him, he said that he thinks Protoss is the strongest race. Ha just hadn't noticed the imbalance yet. | ||
MichaelJLowell
United States610 Posts
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FataLe
New Zealand4399 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:23 Widar wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 21:21 maidu wrote: Interesting how things change in a few weeks, in GSL 2 when Artosis was interviewing him, he said that he thinks Protoss is the strongest race. Ha just hadn't noticed the imbalance yet. No I don't believe it was that. It's just Genius' personality, he's too confident sometimes. Now, when he's having trouble (like all Protoss atm) he's finally realized that he isn't the best and neither is his race. | ||
Entropic
Canada2837 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:22 TheAntZ wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:26 bokeevboke wrote: On November 21 2010 20:24 lol12tree wrote: Well sSKS has already been saying that TvP all-in timing pushes are over powered in one of the playxp interviews during his fail to qualify in GSL2 (not 3). I have no definitive source on this so don't quote me. What we do know is that sSKS won the TSL Clan Tournament defeating SangHo in the finals. TesteR changed his race to Terran to TvP SangHo and won. I would like to see a Terran change to protoss to PvT a high level Terran. Thats pretty strong argument if he beats own race by offracing. On topic: Terrans suits Genius better at this moment, terran suits everyone better. It seems to me that people havent figured out how to abuse zerg properly yet and get closer to its higher skill ceiling, whereas terran is getting more mapped out, so it seems at the moment that terran is far more...fluid? of a race. It allows variety moreso then the other races, which I think is the key point to why Z and P whine about it so much Yeah man even zergs should go switch to T, Terran won GSL1 and GSL2 so ez - oh wait But if a protoss pro were to swtich, they should probably switch to Terran, since the macro mechanic of zerg is so much more different from T and P | ||
speedphlux
Bulgaria962 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:12 rasnj wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:54 speedphlux wrote: + Show Spoiler + Well, if I'm correct, every single patch since the BETA, either was nerfing Protoss or didn't do anything with them. Yeah, sure you can call the new level 1 Void Ray attack buffed, but Protoss air is still ... nowhere. Phoenixes have SOME use, Void Rays have SOME use, but that's it. There comes a time in each game in which your Terran or Zerg opponent have Vikings (or Thors, or BOTH) or Corruptors (or Infestors, or BOTH) and pretty much your whole air becomes nullified. In general, Protoss Air is only good as SURPRISE tactic. Nuff said ? Same goes with Robo units - "Hey, I've got me a crittical mass of Collossi ! Ops - Tanks, Burrowing Roaches, Vikings, Corruptors, Infestors, Bane-drops, EMP, Stimmed Maroders and so on, comes your way.". Or "Hey, Double-Robo Immortals IS DA SHIT ! Ops, Zerglings, Marines, EMP, Thors and Hydras ... And you're dead.". Even if you look back at BETA/Release times, when TLO was still playing Random, he sucked as Protoss, because he didn't had much options. Everything Protoss does gets countered from the other races, not by specific builds, but by playing straight up normal tech path. While the opposite isn't true. Zerg makes Mutas - shit, I better get cannons in my mineral lines and few Stalkers here and there. Terran goes bio-ball timing attack - shit, I don't have enough Sentries, Collossi, Templars. No wonder people want to change away from Protoss. + Show Spoiler + Then why don't you switch? (Assuming you're toss which your probe avatar suggests) I really don't understand this half-assed heroic attitude in the sc2 community. It seems that everyone chooses the race they believe to be the weakest, and keep reminding us how they stick with race X and should be lauded for it. Yet they don't carry through with the heroic attitude and feel that since they were heroic enough to stick with X they are entitled to use every single TL thread to bitch about how bad X is. It is a COMPETITIVE game for fucks sake. That means you do what you can to compete for victory (as in sc2 victory, not as in moral victory). Choosing a weak race seems to me to be a weak strategical move, just like going 17hatch. If a person goes 17hatch and keeps complaining that 14hatching people have an advantage people don't commend the 17hatching player for sticking to his guns. It is Blizzard's job to balance the game, but if you believe you are at a disadvantage (whether from inferior strategy, inferior micro, inferior macro, or inferior race) you try to overcome it (whether by improving micro/macro, or trying new races/strategies). NexGenius is free to switch, and he is free to share his thoughts, but I don't really understand why people feel such a need to bitch about it. It's not like you get 1 free race-switch; you can switch whenever you want. I haven't switched, because I've been Protoss since Pre-BW SC and I'm not playing SC to compete, but TO HAVE FUN and enjoy myself. Kinda hard to enjoy yourself and to have fun, when you have to outthink, outmacro, outmicro and outplay your opponent 100% of the times. I was just pointing out how easy it is for the other two races (Terran and Zerg) to counter whatever the Protoss is doing just on the fly, while one small mistake (misplaced force field, bad scouting route, etc.) can and will cost you the game as a Protoss. I just hope Blizzard stop nerfing the shit out Protoss and start to consider maybe buffing up something. Phoenix range ? Or add splash damage to them ? Hardened Shields immune to EMP perhaps ? Carriers moving speed by a bit maybe ? You know, nothing ground breaking, just something that make us survive. | ||
DennyR
Germany379 Posts
I did not switch because I felt Protoss was underpowered. I just switched because I wanted to learn more about the game and offracing for a large amount time is by far the most beneficial method to do so. When I played Zerg I failed hard, very hard in the beginning because I lost to stupid things, but whenever I had a macrogame I won with ease. After some time I switched to Terran and I won a shit ton of games. Way more then I did with protoss on the same level. The first thing I noticed is, you never are in danger. Not like protoss where a missplaced forcefield ruins you the game. You can outplay your opponents in every matchup with all the possibilities terran has, there seem to be way more viable stategies to pull of safely. I did not switch when poeple complained about terran beeing op, because Iam just not that type of person, but now I really consider staying with it. iNconclusion(you see what I did there?) I dont think protoss is underpowered, I think its maybe even the strongest race if you are in a straight up game, but winning tournaments with it is rather hard, because your stategies are sometimes coinflips and you often lose to stupid pushes earlygame you shouldnt lose to in a perfect world. e.g. the Raven/Banshee Push. You need a Stargate to hold it, but you also need a robo for detection. So you need to hold it this way but then you dont have enough units and just die if the terran hits the right timing. | ||
kvn4444
1510 Posts
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
I dislike as a spectator the fact that protoss are doing bad even though they have very good players. In my opinion, sSKS is better than many players who were in r16 of GSL. Why? Because I never see significant mistakes in his games, most of his decisions are solid backed up with good micro. Similar to HopeTorture. Other players do horrible mistakes like not walling of properly, suiciding banelings into Thors or going all-in blindly. This might be one the reasons that I am losing interest in SC2 scene. I hope to see some changes, even slightest. Glad that some top players have courage to complain openly. | ||
Liquid`Nazgul
22426 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:13 andrewwiggin wrote: Amazing enough that maybe they know the game and the matchups a little more than you? If they think there's an imbalance, then that's their opinion. If they want to change their race, and want other people to discuss it, then why not? If progamers aren't allowed to generate discussions about balance, who is? There's no need to try and insult my knowledge of the game. Trying to create a public imbalance bandwagon by saying you will switch races, in the hope Blizzard will listen, while never actually changing your race is just an annoying thing to do. It's not nice to the fans nor the game. Being around progamers a lot I can tell you they don't actually participate in discussions about balance. It's mostly everyone forming their own opinion off of their own games and not listening to anyone else's. | ||
Gudeldar
United States1200 Posts
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7mk
Germany10156 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:13 andrewwiggin wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 21:04 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: What Dimaga (and Fruitdealer) did was not cool either. It's not that Fruitdealer/Dimaga have more credibility but just the fact that these statements keep piling up and at one point people catch on to the bs that they are. These guys are all amazing players and they don't need this at all. Amazing enough that maybe they know the game and the matchups a little more than you? If they think there's an imbalance, then that's their opinion. If they want to change their race, and want other people to discuss it, then why not? If progamers aren't allowed to generate discussions about balance, who is? The point is that they dont want to change their race, it's just an empty threat and they are pretty much full of it whenever they claim they want to. If you think the games is imbalanced, say that you think the game is imbalanced and why. Don't say you're gonna switch races just to draw attention. | ||
Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:12 ace246 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 21:01 gnutz wrote: If you come from Wc3/WoW you know that whining is a constant factor in playing Blizzards games. It comes down naturally to the fact that Blizzard decided to patch the game. It's obvious that all players, especially progamers want to make their race easier, but sometimes they are right imo. At Pros complaining about whining pros? what do you think of early game TvP? (the reason the most protoss are complaining). Sometimes it looks like the 5rax reaper opening in TvZ if terran plays banshee/raven. (It looks like it, dont know how it is in reality on pro level) imba whining pretty much derived from wc3 community and that whining phenomenon has been infected to the sc2 community. I don't recall imba whining during the BW era. Whining over balance to developers isnt restricted to Blizzard games and goes all the way back to text only muds. So to blame it on WC3 is a bit ripe. | ||
Coolcatqt
United Kingdom36 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. Cleaned up the reactions to this post. | ||
Liquid`Nazgul
22426 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:31 Gudeldar wrote: I think all the non-Protoss players will have to acknowledge there is a problem now when one of the very few top Protoss players is considering switching. And if the post about Inca and Tester considering switching is true then even Blizzard won't be able to ignore it and focus on something other than ladder wins. This is pretty much why they do it. They learned by example. First the Zergs, and now Protoss is taking a page from their book. Whether it is balanced or not doesn't really matter at this point. You have Protoss missing from the top GSL spots, the players saying they will switch, their fans using these statements as proof to claim imbalance, and voila the problem is at Blizzards doorstep without anyone having any idea how this game will be played 2 years from now. | ||
Gudeldar
United States1200 Posts
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Metalwing
Turkey1038 Posts
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
Will it be easier to nerf Terran or to buff those two races without causing new imbalances? | ||
smegged
Australia213 Posts
I really hope that Blizzard realise that if they do want to change the Protoss early game, they have to do so in a way that will not cripple the ZvP matchup. Even now, 4gate is very strong against zerg right up until the very top level (mainly due to larvae constraints). With proxy pylons, 4gate basically puts all the pressure on the zerg and if the initial engagement is lost, the zerg is screwed because the protoss can reinforce like they're in their own base. This is the real cause of any problem Protoss may seem to have - proxy pylons mean that protoss is balanced around practically no reinforcement time. This means that, especially while defending, they can seem very fragile and succumb to intense pressure. So Protoss really can't have an early game "home ground" advantage because it would make timing gateway/proxy pylon attacks too strong. This means that if the game isn't perfectly balanced until tier 2 units hit the scene, that Protoss will either be too strong or too weak. Currently it seems that they are about balanced vs zerg and too weak against terran. Not being a top-tier player myself, I believe that I am seeing the current TvP problems through "filtered down" imbalances. As zerg players have done better against Terran on the ladder, it means that we're facing stronger protoss players. Anecdotally, I lose far more games vs Protoss than I do vs Terran and I largely put that down to imbalances in the TvP matchup at higher levels. | ||
Gudeldar
United States1200 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:36 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 21:31 Gudeldar wrote: I think all the non-Protoss players will have to acknowledge there is a problem now when one of the very few top Protoss players is considering switching. And if the post about Inca and Tester considering switching is true then even Blizzard won't be able to ignore it and focus on something other than ladder wins. This is pretty much why they do it. They learned by example. First the Zergs, and now Protoss is taking a page from their book. Whether it is balanced or not doesn't really matter at this point. You have Protoss missing from the top GSL spots, the players saying they will switch, their fans using these statements as proof to claim imbalance, and voila the problem is at Blizzards doorstep without anyone having any idea how this game will be played 2 years from now. Its hard to tell whether the problem is if Protoss is weak at the very top level or there just aren't very many very good Protoss players. I can count on one hand the number of Protoss I would give a chance of winning a GSL but there are a million Zergs and Terrans who have a chance of winning GSL. I'm not a top level player by any means but I agree with whoever said on SOTG that Protoss feels like it is very unforgiving of mistakes while Terran and Zerg are more forgiving of screw ups. | ||
Nayl
Canada413 Posts
I would have thought Pros would know the best about relationship between trends and balance. Game balance will switch around even without blizzard's patching the game frequently because players discover new things and forming new trends. Even if there were a game balance issue, this is just inappropriate for a pro, who probably has a mean of contacting blizzard's balance team directly or indirectly, publicly yearning for attention. I lost lot of respect for NexGenius. | ||
Manimal_pro
Romania991 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:28 Highways wrote: Don't wanna sound like a troll but I've been saying this since day1, Marauders are the biggest joke of a unit ever. Unless you have enough forcefields or have a heavily larger army, marauders mean that your units cannot escape and you generally lose your whole army in 2 seconds if you accidentally engage. Don't wanna sound like a troll but I've been saying this since day1, Collossus are the biggest joke of a unit ever. Unless you have enough vikings or have a heavily larger army, collossus means that your units cannot deal damage and you generally lose your whole army in 2 seconds if you accidentally engage. | ||
Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:39 ParasitJonte wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:25 Kyuki wrote: This is so sad.. Can top players STOP CRYING IN THE OPEN. :< We all rage and have our moments, but I mean it's pretty damn obvious Protoss is in a spot where Zerg was before the reaper/bunker and roach range upgrade. Toss is unforgiving (4-gate aside which is very uncommon at the very highest level because it's not that hard to stop) and can be abused quite hard by the other races, but there will appear better and more refined builds and that will even out the playing field eventually. Maybe there will also be a tiny buff who knows.. Anyway, I just fucking hate when they cry like this.. Well... This is his life. No, really, I mean this is his life. His career. It's what he does. He wants to make money from it. And that post obviously contained no whining. It was a really short post. Besides, if you thought you deserved to be top 4 in GSL based on skill but found yourself being knocked out earlier based on what you perceive to be imbalances, I would call you an idiot for not trying to argue your case. Ofc it is, but the game is still soo bloody young. Zergs had the same problems, and suddenly they could adapt because they were hard pressed. I mean they've shown time and time again that it's possible to beat both terran and toss, and things will keep evolving. I feel that things right now are really unrefined and probably when we look back a couple of years from now, will consider the plays we see rather bad. (and we'll blame maps ^^). I would call you an idiot if you look back at yourself and consider yourself to be a top4 contender and then blame your race for not succeeding. That will take you nowhere. I dont care who you are and how imbalanced the game actually is - that's not the point - if you have that attitude you wont go as far as those that suck it up and just find new ways. That's my opinion atleast. | ||
Danze
Australia219 Posts
Genius is my favourite protoss player. I watch all of his replays for inspiration / entertainment. I honestly hope he doesn't switch. | ||
cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
Zerg didn't get buffs for a long time. Only until Dimage, FruitDealer, and Check whined publicly that they did. Problem is, Blizzard seems to not intend to buff Protoss. Take BW. Protoss is the weakest race, but they didn't whine (enough) for a change to be made. Hence, this worrying trend continues. Unless Blizzard is more proactive rather than reactive, whine threads will become even more commonplace. | ||
Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
I'm considering switching to Toss, let's make a thread | ||
Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:00 lol12tree wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:58 Supamang wrote: On November 21 2010 20:50 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. Sorry man, but I think thats a stupid notion. Genius is a pro player, far better than any of his fans. He would know the nuances of the races much better than any of us, so he wouldnt need any input from his fans. Furthermore, most of his fans would follow him because they like Protoss. Of course they would prefer that hed stay as Protoss above anything else. This sounds like he wants to make the threat but is trying to be sneaky about it, like "No im not an attention whore! Im just asking for input!" whats up with this biasism, when dimaga voiced his concern and change from Z to possibly T , people took him seriously, so why not genius? Does Dimaga have some sort of special credit behind him that genius doesn't? Fill me in on this one. I said the exact same things in Dimagas and Fruitdealers posts. It's imo disgusting and childish behaviour to cry out like this to the public. | ||
IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:56 Kyuki wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 21:00 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:58 Supamang wrote: On November 21 2010 20:50 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. Sorry man, but I think thats a stupid notion. Genius is a pro player, far better than any of his fans. He would know the nuances of the races much better than any of us, so he wouldnt need any input from his fans. Furthermore, most of his fans would follow him because they like Protoss. Of course they would prefer that hed stay as Protoss above anything else. This sounds like he wants to make the threat but is trying to be sneaky about it, like "No im not an attention whore! Im just asking for input!" whats up with this biasism, when dimaga voiced his concern and change from Z to possibly T , people took him seriously, so why not genius? Does Dimaga have some sort of special credit behind him that genius doesn't? Fill me in on this one. I said the exact same things in Dimagas and Fruitdealers posts. It's imo disgusting and childish behaviour to cry out like this to the public. blizzard watches public opinion and the public is retarded, if you feel somethings unfair its only logical to try and swing public opinion your way. | ||
pyro19
6575 Posts
Terran are strongest at the Early and Midgame but melt away to Storms during the late games. I say the matchups are balanced enough . As i see it , protoss needs a slight buff , so please blizzard don"t nerf terran again. | ||
disco
Netherlands1667 Posts
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Metalwing
Turkey1038 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:46 Kurumi wrote: Okay,so first Terran realised all-ins versus Zergs - they were dominant in both tournaments and ladder. Now,Terran got another ace upon their sleeves - all-ins versus Protoss - same thing as Zerg problem. Many Zerg players switched their races,same happening with Protoss right now. The question is: Will it be easier to nerf Terran or to buff those two races without causing new imbalances? I'm actually thinking that if stim or combat shield had a factory or a higher thing requirement like adrenal glands has. Because stim has too little cost for that effective upgrade and if you increase the cost, it would be too much. And stim is used in the WHOLE FUCKING GAME. SO IS THE COMBAT SHIELD. So, if we want macro games to be a more viable choice, let's do something like this: Increase stim's and combat shield's (also concussive shell's) upgrade time by 20 or 30 seconds. And add factory as a requirement for all. What happens if we do something like this? Strats like stim timing rushes become less viable. But how will be the +20 minute long macro games of biomech effected? 20-30 seconds. What is 20-30 seconds compared to 1200 seconds? Nothing. Anyway, particular example is particular and I don't know how good this idea is. It just came out of nowhere and I didn't even test it against protoss or terran or anything. It just came out. But, if we have one race which is good for allins, one race which is unbeatable in the late game and one race which has nothing but glass cannons, this sucks. Every race should have the same power in the all phases of the game. Macro games should be viable. But, good early strats should also kick the shit out of greedy eco heavy ones. Just like 5pool vs 14CC in Brood War. | ||
Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:52 Kyuki wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 20:39 ParasitJonte wrote: On November 21 2010 20:25 Kyuki wrote: This is so sad.. Can top players STOP CRYING IN THE OPEN. :< We all rage and have our moments, but I mean it's pretty damn obvious Protoss is in a spot where Zerg was before the reaper/bunker and roach range upgrade. Toss is unforgiving (4-gate aside which is very uncommon at the very highest level because it's not that hard to stop) and can be abused quite hard by the other races, but there will appear better and more refined builds and that will even out the playing field eventually. Maybe there will also be a tiny buff who knows.. Anyway, I just fucking hate when they cry like this.. Well... This is his life. No, really, I mean this is his life. His career. It's what he does. He wants to make money from it. And that post obviously contained no whining. It was a really short post. Besides, if you thought you deserved to be top 4 in GSL based on skill but found yourself being knocked out earlier based on what you perceive to be imbalances, I would call you an idiot for not trying to argue your case. Ofc it is, but the game is still soo bloody young. Zergs had the same problems, and suddenly they could adapt because they were hard pressed. I mean they've shown time and time again that it's possible to beat both terran and toss, and things will keep evolving. I feel that things right now are really unrefined and probably when we look back a couple of years from now, will consider the plays we see rather bad. (and we'll blame maps ^^). Maybe You're right - P should adapt. The problem is,adapt WHAT? Where Zerg dropped FE and evolved 1base muta/ 20-26 ish expand. What can P change? Their tech is both expensive and taking huge amount of time (HT+Storm for an example) and leaves P without actual army. FE vs T and other crazy plays can be denied very fast,FE vs Z is pretty bad right now thanks to Roach buff (not totally bad though,can still pull off) Also there's the biggest problem - "Templar tech or Robo tech?" Protoss isn't a Terran which can have one of every production building,neither Zerg changing tech freely. When they're doing something You know that they're COMMITTING to that. | ||
Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:49 Gudeldar wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 21:36 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: On November 21 2010 21:31 Gudeldar wrote: I think all the non-Protoss players will have to acknowledge there is a problem now when one of the very few top Protoss players is considering switching. And if the post about Inca and Tester considering switching is true then even Blizzard won't be able to ignore it and focus on something other than ladder wins. This is pretty much why they do it. They learned by example. First the Zergs, and now Protoss is taking a page from their book. Whether it is balanced or not doesn't really matter at this point. You have Protoss missing from the top GSL spots, the players saying they will switch, their fans using these statements as proof to claim imbalance, and voila the problem is at Blizzards doorstep without anyone having any idea how this game will be played 2 years from now. Its hard to tell whether the problem is if Protoss is weak at the very top level or there just aren't very many very good Protoss players. I can count on one hand the number of Protoss I would give a chance of winning a GSL but there are a million Zergs and Terrans who have a chance of winning GSL. I'm not a top level player by any means but I agree with whoever said on SOTG that Protoss feels like it is very unforgiving of mistakes while Terran and Zerg are more forgiving of screw ups. Assuming you are right and I personally dont think you are (I think there are many top Protoss players). What would you say is the reason behind there being no top players? Because the race doesnt suit top level players? Because by some strange fluke of luck very few top players pick Protoss? There is an imbalance in competition play? The history of BW being that Terran and Zerg are the more successful races so better players flock to those? | ||
clockwork.
Central Afr. Rep.6 Posts
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Woony
Germany6657 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:51 scion wrote: From NexGenius's post, it does really seem like he wants attention. What's scary is most of replies are supporting his decision and suggesting races he should switch to(probably why he posted there). I would have thought Pros would know the best about relationship between trends and balance. Game balance will switch around even without blizzard's patching the game frequently because players discover new things and forming new trends. Even if there were a game balance issue, this is just inappropriate for a pro, who probably has a mean of contacting blizzard's balance team directly or indirectly, publicly yearning for attention. I lost lot of respect for NexGenius. .... As a pro his job is to win tournaments, not to balance the game. If he feels his race is weaker he has the right to whine like he wants. Or should he wait until maybe in a few months he has a better chance? Every pro is subjective and argues for the sake of his own race. And Blizzard knows that, so they listen to different Pros of every race to get a picture of the balance. | ||
hifriend
China7935 Posts
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:58 IdrA wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 21:56 Kyuki wrote: On November 21 2010 21:00 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:58 Supamang wrote: On November 21 2010 20:50 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. Sorry man, but I think thats a stupid notion. Genius is a pro player, far better than any of his fans. He would know the nuances of the races much better than any of us, so he wouldnt need any input from his fans. Furthermore, most of his fans would follow him because they like Protoss. Of course they would prefer that hed stay as Protoss above anything else. This sounds like he wants to make the threat but is trying to be sneaky about it, like "No im not an attention whore! Im just asking for input!" whats up with this biasism, when dimaga voiced his concern and change from Z to possibly T , people took him seriously, so why not genius? Does Dimaga have some sort of special credit behind him that genius doesn't? Fill me in on this one. I said the exact same things in Dimagas and Fruitdealers posts. It's imo disgusting and childish behaviour to cry out like this to the public. blizzard watches public opinion and the public is retarded, if you feel somethings unfair its only logical to try and swing public opinion your way. I agree it's logical, it does not make it more honerable to be crying, or whatever you wanna call it. Even though blizzard listens, they have shown several times with different patches that they do quite the oposite of what the crowd thinks is needed, and somehow that have made players change up their play and adapt to something that they did not think would work. So regardless of what people say about them I think they have more clue than most. Blizzard seriously deserve some cred even though they can't make fucking chatchannels... I mean is there no pride? Whine and cry by all means, but really, do it privately and then look back at your game and try harder? Everything is not figured out... | ||
ace246
Australia360 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:46 Metalwing wrote: IdrA always had talks about balance. But instead of saying "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch", he said "I don't play Terran because I have self respect". I'd expect the same from the Protoss players. But they just don't care. They just QQ like the little kids do. Terran suits Genius better. He should play Terran definitely. Are you implying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is a better statement than "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch"? If so, thats kinda stupid isn't it? I mean saying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is pretty much BM to all the other terrans. Whereas "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch" isn't really offensive to anyone. | ||
Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:00 Kurumi wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 21:52 Kyuki wrote: On November 21 2010 20:39 ParasitJonte wrote: On November 21 2010 20:25 Kyuki wrote: This is so sad.. Can top players STOP CRYING IN THE OPEN. :< We all rage and have our moments, but I mean it's pretty damn obvious Protoss is in a spot where Zerg was before the reaper/bunker and roach range upgrade. Toss is unforgiving (4-gate aside which is very uncommon at the very highest level because it's not that hard to stop) and can be abused quite hard by the other races, but there will appear better and more refined builds and that will even out the playing field eventually. Maybe there will also be a tiny buff who knows.. Anyway, I just fucking hate when they cry like this.. Well... This is his life. No, really, I mean this is his life. His career. It's what he does. He wants to make money from it. And that post obviously contained no whining. It was a really short post. Besides, if you thought you deserved to be top 4 in GSL based on skill but found yourself being knocked out earlier based on what you perceive to be imbalances, I would call you an idiot for not trying to argue your case. Ofc it is, but the game is still soo bloody young. Zergs had the same problems, and suddenly they could adapt because they were hard pressed. I mean they've shown time and time again that it's possible to beat both terran and toss, and things will keep evolving. I feel that things right now are really unrefined and probably when we look back a couple of years from now, will consider the plays we see rather bad. (and we'll blame maps ^^). Maybe You're right - P should adapt. The problem is,adapt WHAT? Where Zerg dropped FE and evolved 1base muta/ 20-26 ish expand. What can P change? Their tech is both expensive and taking huge amount of time (HT+Storm for an example) and leaves P without actual army. FE vs T and other crazy plays can be denied very fast,FE vs Z is pretty bad right now thanks to Roach buff (not totally bad though,can still pull off) Also there's the biggest problem - "Templar tech or Robo tech?" Protoss isn't a Terran which can have one of every production building,neither Zerg changing tech freely. When they're doing something You know that they're COMMITTING to that. Do you think I have the answer to that? Ofc not, that's why pros are pros, they'll find ways. Eventually. Refine Refine Refine. | ||
JonnyLaw
United States3482 Posts
This reminds me of American professional athletes who tweet about their drama and whine. | ||
Woony
Germany6657 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:10 Kyuki wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 21:58 IdrA wrote: On November 21 2010 21:56 Kyuki wrote: On November 21 2010 21:00 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:58 Supamang wrote: On November 21 2010 20:50 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. Sorry man, but I think thats a stupid notion. Genius is a pro player, far better than any of his fans. He would know the nuances of the races much better than any of us, so he wouldnt need any input from his fans. Furthermore, most of his fans would follow him because they like Protoss. Of course they would prefer that hed stay as Protoss above anything else. This sounds like he wants to make the threat but is trying to be sneaky about it, like "No im not an attention whore! Im just asking for input!" whats up with this biasism, when dimaga voiced his concern and change from Z to possibly T , people took him seriously, so why not genius? Does Dimaga have some sort of special credit behind him that genius doesn't? Fill me in on this one. I said the exact same things in Dimagas and Fruitdealers posts. It's imo disgusting and childish behaviour to cry out like this to the public. blizzard watches public opinion and the public is retarded, if you feel somethings unfair its only logical to try and swing public opinion your way. I agree it's logical, it does not make it more honerable to be crying, or whatever you wanna call it. Even though blizzard listens, they have shown several times with different patches that they do quite the oposite of what the crowd thinks is needed, and somehow that have made players change up their play and adapt to something that they did not think would work. So regardless of what people say about them I think they have more clue than most. Blizzard seriously deserve some cred even though they can't make fucking chatchannels... I mean is there no pride? Whine and cry by all means, but really, do it privately and then look back at your game and try harder? Everything is not figured out... I'm pretty certain that you would think different if you were trying to make a career off Starcraft. | ||
Art_of_Kill
Zaire1232 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:19 Critical loss wrote: based on his post in playxp: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/bbs/view.php?article_id=2354027&page=2 In this post he said "I'm considering changing my race. Please recommend the race which seems to be more suitable for me" He thinks protoss is so underpowered that no one playing protoss can actually win the tournament like GSL. so what? let's see how many switched after they started crying if i remember right not a single person and in this case wont be any different just rnd crying to get a buff | ||
Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:12 Woony wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 22:10 Kyuki wrote: On November 21 2010 21:58 IdrA wrote: On November 21 2010 21:56 Kyuki wrote: On November 21 2010 21:00 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:58 Supamang wrote: On November 21 2010 20:50 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. Sorry man, but I think thats a stupid notion. Genius is a pro player, far better than any of his fans. He would know the nuances of the races much better than any of us, so he wouldnt need any input from his fans. Furthermore, most of his fans would follow him because they like Protoss. Of course they would prefer that hed stay as Protoss above anything else. This sounds like he wants to make the threat but is trying to be sneaky about it, like "No im not an attention whore! Im just asking for input!" whats up with this biasism, when dimaga voiced his concern and change from Z to possibly T , people took him seriously, so why not genius? Does Dimaga have some sort of special credit behind him that genius doesn't? Fill me in on this one. I said the exact same things in Dimagas and Fruitdealers posts. It's imo disgusting and childish behaviour to cry out like this to the public. blizzard watches public opinion and the public is retarded, if you feel somethings unfair its only logical to try and swing public opinion your way. I agree it's logical, it does not make it more honerable to be crying, or whatever you wanna call it. Even though blizzard listens, they have shown several times with different patches that they do quite the oposite of what the crowd thinks is needed, and somehow that have made players change up their play and adapt to something that they did not think would work. So regardless of what people say about them I think they have more clue than most. Blizzard seriously deserve some cred even though they can't make fucking chatchannels... I mean is there no pride? Whine and cry by all means, but really, do it privately and then look back at your game and try harder? Everything is not figured out... I'm pretty certain that you would think different if you were trying to make a career off Starcraft. No? You have no clue who I am and what I do for a living. I put in the same type of mentality in whatever I do and that makes me improve upon what I'm doing. Why do people use this as a argument? "Buff me pls, so I can make moneEz!" Really? Grow up. | ||
stafu
Australia1196 Posts
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dtz
5834 Posts
And i am sure that the pros know that balance are an evolving concept and as Nazgul pointed out, it will take years to really understand balance. PROBLEM is, in that 2 years, there will be multiple GSLs with over 1 million USD in prize money. When we look back 2 years from now, it is possible to say that every winners was deserving but it is more likely that after achieving better understanding , we will see that some players did get further than they belong due to race imbalance or even hindered by their races. 2 years from now we will say things like "oh fruitdealer totally did not deserve that , zerg macro was so broken in 1.1" or " i pity Tester because he got hard done by in 2010" or " wow how did cool won GSL 1 when zerg was clearly underpowered in 1.1 or "Tester sucks because Protoss was overpowered in 1.1 and 1.2 yet he failed to qualify twice" Players obviously does not want to belong in the "in hindsight was the best player but did not win because of race" situation because of the financial and fame implications. Aside from the huge prize money, winning attracts sponsors and fans. The earlier the development of SC2, the more it makes sense for the pros to try attract balance in their favour because the simplest of changes can alter a whole lot of matchups. I am not trying to justify the whinings but I do understand why they do it. | ||
Raiznhell
Canada786 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:31 Gudeldar wrote: I think all the non-Protoss players will have to acknowledge there is a problem now when one of the very few top Protoss players is considering switching. And if the post about Inca and Tester considering switching is true then even Blizzard won't be able to ignore it and focus on something other than ladder wins. But that's just it i mean they are using race changing threats to scare blizzard into buffing protoss wether or not they need a buff or not. If blizzard can be scared into making balance changes based on top players threats of changing races then this game will never get perfectly balanced. If they want to help Protoss balance they should keep playing their race to the best of their ability and consistent loss to something imbalanced will lead to nerfs/buffs but being a whiny bitch and changing races isn't going to help at all. | ||
Woony
Germany6657 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:14 Kyuki wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 22:12 Woony wrote: On November 21 2010 22:10 Kyuki wrote: On November 21 2010 21:58 IdrA wrote: On November 21 2010 21:56 Kyuki wrote: On November 21 2010 21:00 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:58 Supamang wrote: On November 21 2010 20:50 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. Sorry man, but I think thats a stupid notion. Genius is a pro player, far better than any of his fans. He would know the nuances of the races much better than any of us, so he wouldnt need any input from his fans. Furthermore, most of his fans would follow him because they like Protoss. Of course they would prefer that hed stay as Protoss above anything else. This sounds like he wants to make the threat but is trying to be sneaky about it, like "No im not an attention whore! Im just asking for input!" whats up with this biasism, when dimaga voiced his concern and change from Z to possibly T , people took him seriously, so why not genius? Does Dimaga have some sort of special credit behind him that genius doesn't? Fill me in on this one. I said the exact same things in Dimagas and Fruitdealers posts. It's imo disgusting and childish behaviour to cry out like this to the public. blizzard watches public opinion and the public is retarded, if you feel somethings unfair its only logical to try and swing public opinion your way. I agree it's logical, it does not make it more honerable to be crying, or whatever you wanna call it. Even though blizzard listens, they have shown several times with different patches that they do quite the oposite of what the crowd thinks is needed, and somehow that have made players change up their play and adapt to something that they did not think would work. So regardless of what people say about them I think they have more clue than most. Blizzard seriously deserve some cred even though they can't make fucking chatchannels... I mean is there no pride? Whine and cry by all means, but really, do it privately and then look back at your game and try harder? Everything is not figured out... I'm pretty certain that you would think different if you were trying to make a career off Starcraft. No? You have no clue who I am and what I do for a living. I put in the same type of mentality in whatever I do and that makes me improve upon what I'm doing. Why do people use this as a argument? "Buff me pls, so I can make moneEz!" Really? Grow up. Maybe not you, but most human beings would get an advantage if they can. It's not like he is killing people for it. | ||
Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:15 dtz wrote: For what it's worth. i believe the Emperor himself has whined and threathened to change race as well. Did it multiple times in various interviews as well. But i guess he gets a free pass for all the good things he has done to Esports and deservedly so. And i am sure that the pros know that balance are an evolving concept and as Nazgul pointed out, it will take years to really understand balance. PROBLEM is, in that 2 years, there will be multiple GSLs with over 1 million USD in prize money. When we look back 2 years from now, it is possible to say that every winners was deserving but it is more likely that after achieving better understanding , we will see that some players did get further than they belong due to race imbalance or even hindered by their races. 2 years from now we will say things like "oh fruitdealer totally did not deserve that , zerg macro was so broken in 1.1" or " i pity Tester because he got hard done by in 2010" or " wow how did cool won GSL 1 when zerg was clearly underpowered in 1.1 or "Tester sucks because Protoss was overpowered in 1.1 and 1.2 yet he failed to qualify twice" Players obviously does not want to belong in the "in hindsight was the best player but did not win because of race" situation because of the financial and fame implications. Aside from the huge prize money, winning attracts sponsors and fans. The earlier the development of SC2, the more it makes sense for the pros to try attract balance in their favour because the simplest of changes can alter a whole lot of matchups. I am not trying to justify the whinings but I do understand why they do it. I like this post and agree mostly. I said the same things I said in BoxeRs thread though He dont get no freepass from me, but on second thoughts he did say in a interview with Artosis in GSL that he's just a Terran crybaby (basically). Check the interview, just made me smile. | ||
Gudeldar
United States1200 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:16 Raiznhell wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 21:31 Gudeldar wrote: I think all the non-Protoss players will have to acknowledge there is a problem now when one of the very few top Protoss players is considering switching. And if the post about Inca and Tester considering switching is true then even Blizzard won't be able to ignore it and focus on something other than ladder wins. But that's just it i mean they are using race changing threats to scare blizzard into buffing protoss wether or not they need a buff or not. If blizzard can be scared into making balance changes based on top players threats of changing races then this game will never get perfectly balanced. If they want to help Protoss balance they should keep playing their race to the best of their ability and consistent loss to something imbalanced will lead to nerfs/buffs but being a whiny bitch and changing races isn't going to help at all. This is exactly what people said when Zerg players started threatening to switch races. We know how that turned out don't we? | ||
Irave
United States9965 Posts
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:17 Woony wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 22:14 Kyuki wrote: On November 21 2010 22:12 Woony wrote: On November 21 2010 22:10 Kyuki wrote: On November 21 2010 21:58 IdrA wrote: On November 21 2010 21:56 Kyuki wrote: On November 21 2010 21:00 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:58 Supamang wrote: On November 21 2010 20:50 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. Sorry man, but I think thats a stupid notion. Genius is a pro player, far better than any of his fans. He would know the nuances of the races much better than any of us, so he wouldnt need any input from his fans. Furthermore, most of his fans would follow him because they like Protoss. Of course they would prefer that hed stay as Protoss above anything else. This sounds like he wants to make the threat but is trying to be sneaky about it, like "No im not an attention whore! Im just asking for input!" whats up with this biasism, when dimaga voiced his concern and change from Z to possibly T , people took him seriously, so why not genius? Does Dimaga have some sort of special credit behind him that genius doesn't? Fill me in on this one. I said the exact same things in Dimagas and Fruitdealers posts. It's imo disgusting and childish behaviour to cry out like this to the public. blizzard watches public opinion and the public is retarded, if you feel somethings unfair its only logical to try and swing public opinion your way. I agree it's logical, it does not make it more honerable to be crying, or whatever you wanna call it. Even though blizzard listens, they have shown several times with different patches that they do quite the oposite of what the crowd thinks is needed, and somehow that have made players change up their play and adapt to something that they did not think would work. So regardless of what people say about them I think they have more clue than most. Blizzard seriously deserve some cred even though they can't make fucking chatchannels... I mean is there no pride? Whine and cry by all means, but really, do it privately and then look back at your game and try harder? Everything is not figured out... I'm pretty certain that you would think different if you were trying to make a career off Starcraft. No? You have no clue who I am and what I do for a living. I put in the same type of mentality in whatever I do and that makes me improve upon what I'm doing. Why do people use this as a argument? "Buff me pls, so I can make moneEz!" Really? Grow up. Maybe not you, but most human beings would get an advantage if they can. It's not like he is killing people for it. Well it's contradictive and lazy. If you beat the odds you will improve more than those that cry and eventually show more consistency. Humans are lazy though so I'm saying I dont understand this, but it's still stupid and ugly. Imo. | ||
Woony
Germany6657 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:16 Raiznhell wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 21:31 Gudeldar wrote: I think all the non-Protoss players will have to acknowledge there is a problem now when one of the very few top Protoss players is considering switching. And if the post about Inca and Tester considering switching is true then even Blizzard won't be able to ignore it and focus on something other than ladder wins. But that's just it i mean they are using race changing threats to scare blizzard into buffing protoss wether or not they need a buff or not. If blizzard can be scared into making balance changes based on top players threats of changing races then this game will never get perfectly balanced. If they want to help Protoss balance they should keep playing their race to the best of their ability and consistent loss to something imbalanced will lead to nerfs/buffs but being a whiny bitch and changing races isn't going to help at all. Well it's a hard situation for Blizzard. If they really switch, Protoss is without top players and this will probably scare other people from Broodwar from picking Protoss in Starcraft 2. And having practically only 2 races at the top again would be very bad for the game and the game as an e-sport. | ||
Angra
United States2652 Posts
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Caeru
United Kingdom3 Posts
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
P does seem to be struggling in korea in PvZ, though I'm not entirely convinced yet that it's a balance issue. Most of the Z's are being aggressive over there with roach/ling and mutas which are fairly new strategies and could use a little more time to be ironed out. Against T though, P seems to be doing quite well, and T seems to be the main focus of Protoss complaints. So back to my original question. What is it that pros are doing compared to diamond ladder players, to turn a Protoss favored matchup into an imbalance fest? | ||
Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
Create new, better, more macro oriented maps (bigger ones), and then we take another view at the whole situation. As far as im concerned, TvP early pressure on Shakuras for instance ins't that huge of a deal. You can safely fast expand and after lock your natural with force fields while safely teching up. I want to see Race % per map | ||
Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:26 Tachion wrote: So what is it that separates ladder results from tournament results? I hate to make this comparison, but P is leading the pack in most of their T and Z matchups across the globe according to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=169358. P does seem to be struggling in korea in PvZ, though I'm not entirely convinced yet that it's a balance issue. Most of the Z's are being aggressive over there with roach/ling and mutas which are fairly new strategies and could use a little more time to be ironed out. Against T though, P seems to be doing quite well, and T seems to be the main focus of Protoss complaints. So back to my original question. What is it that pros are doing compared to diamond ladder players to turn a Protoss favored matchup, into an imbalance fest? In another thread calling into question how the stats swung so massively in just a few days from their previous posting that was removed a blue stated that the stats quite regulary vary as much as 10% like that from day to day. So Blizzard can pretty much choose a convenient day and then post the stats to prove a point. | ||
Ramble
Sweden877 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:26 Tachion wrote: So what is it that separates ladder results from tournament results? I hate to make this comparison, but P is leading the pack in most of their T and Z matchups across the globe according to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=169358. P does seem to be struggling in korea in PvZ, though I'm not entirely convinced yet that it's a balance issue. Most of the Z's are being aggressive over there with roach/ling and mutas which are fairly new strategies and could use a little more time to be ironed out. Against T though, P seems to be doing quite well, and T seems to be the main focus of Protoss complaints. So back to my original question. What is it that pros are doing compared to diamond ladder players to turn a Protoss favored matchup, into an imbalance fest? The only thing Blizzard should read from ladder data is that their ladder matchmaker is good at putting people of equal skill together. | ||
cArn-
Korea (South)824 Posts
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Somi
Pakistan123 Posts
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ReasoN-
Germany145 Posts
You are one of the last hopes of Aiur. | ||
Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:32 Ramble wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 22:26 Tachion wrote: So what is it that separates ladder results from tournament results? I hate to make this comparison, but P is leading the pack in most of their T and Z matchups across the globe according to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=169358. P does seem to be struggling in korea in PvZ, though I'm not entirely convinced yet that it's a balance issue. Most of the Z's are being aggressive over there with roach/ling and mutas which are fairly new strategies and could use a little more time to be ironed out. Against T though, P seems to be doing quite well, and T seems to be the main focus of Protoss complaints. So back to my original question. What is it that pros are doing compared to diamond ladder players to turn a Protoss favored matchup, into an imbalance fest? The only thing Blizzard should read from ladder data is that their ladder matchmaker is good at putting people of equal skill together. They supposedly remove the matchmaking results and only compare of equal level, how they do that well only they know how accurate it is and if they actually bother to note map and position percentages too. | ||
lynx.oblige
Sierra Leone2268 Posts
On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. The worst thing of it all may just be that people actually logon to TL and use the opinion of these players to support their balance whines, even though it's pretty damn obvious none of these players actually have a clue about balance and just want their own race to be better. In a way I'm glad it's a Protoss doing it now because now if I yell at him I won't be attacked by angry Zerg and Terran players saying that it isn't my race that is underpowered. I hope people that don't read the whole thread will read this. Took the words right out of my mouth. | ||
Tone_
United Kingdom554 Posts
If you play a game professionally and are good at it but consistently get under-par results then I'd imagine it does get frustrating. This may cause you to put the occasional rant on a forum or something (Fruitdealer, Boxer). These are some of the highest level players so until you are at their level I don't see how people can compare their own, or any other "whiners" situations to theirs. Secondly he is posting a fairly calm, question based post within his own community. Nazgul and othe mods, tbh if it pisses you off then why do you have this stuff on the forums. Did he come to TL and post it? No. So what's happening is we're taking something that wasn't even posted to TL, and bitching about how he's shoving his complaining down our throats? </logic> | ||
sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
General rule of thumb: if somebody wants to switch, they just fckin do it (Morrow, TLO) and don't create a public hassle all around it. If somebody "announces" he is going to switch, he won't. I'm Protoss for the record. Although I'd agree on some balance issues (many terran timing attacks STILL work even 4 months after release, which makes you wonder...), it's so painfully obvious that all these "announcements" are nothing but giant QQs directed at blizzard, like "hey, dudes, my race is UP, fix it already will ya?" So annoying, I don't understand how a fan could give any player who does that any credit for it. | ||
Ryukku
Singapore545 Posts
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Supamang
United States2298 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:10 ace246 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 21:46 Metalwing wrote: IdrA always had talks about balance. But instead of saying "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch", he said "I don't play Terran because I have self respect". I'd expect the same from the Protoss players. But they just don't care. They just QQ like the little kids do. Terran suits Genius better. He should play Terran definitely. Are you implying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is a better statement than "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch"? If so, thats kinda stupid isn't it? I mean saying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is pretty much BM to all the other terrans. Whereas "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch" isn't really offensive to anyone. If Metalwing was implying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is a better statement than "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch", then I completely agree with him. At least Idra has self-respect, and not because he doesn't play terran. its because he believes in himself and his own abilities to the end and keeps his head up high despite going against the odds. I am no Idra lover either. Ive always disliked his BM and how much of an asshole he can be when losing, but I respect him as a strong player and a strong personality. People look up to the progamers because of their ability and drive. People who make it to the top in anything should have confidence in their own abilities. How pathetic is it that tons of people respect Genius as a pro Protoss player when he himself doesnt have self-respect as a Protoss player? | ||
clockwork.
Central Afr. Rep.6 Posts
~the people's progamer~ | ||
pzea469
United States1520 Posts
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simme123
Sweden810 Posts
I will admit however that our late game is the strongest. Although zerg is arguably stronger with their macro on 5 hatches. It's the path up to late game that is a bitch for toss. But if we can get to 200/200 our armies are the strongest in game imo. | ||
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:40 Supamang wrote: wait, how did the "general consensus" in Korea go from PvZ being P favored (zomg even worse than TvZ some say!) to it being Z favored? maybe ive been an idiot all along for believing people when they say "well koreans say *blah* so it must be true" Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 22:10 ace246 wrote: On November 21 2010 21:46 Metalwing wrote: IdrA always had talks about balance. But instead of saying "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch", he said "I don't play Terran because I have self respect". I'd expect the same from the Protoss players. But they just don't care. They just QQ like the little kids do. Terran suits Genius better. He should play Terran definitely. Are you implying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is a better statement than "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch"? If so, thats kinda stupid isn't it? I mean saying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is pretty much BM to all the other terrans. Whereas "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch" isn't really offensive to anyone. If Metalwing was implying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is a better statement than "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch", then I completely agree with him. At least Idra has self-respect, and not because he doesn't play terran. its because he believes in himself and his own abilities to the end and keeps his head up high despite going against the odds. I am no Idra lover either. Ive always disliked his BM and how much of an asshole he can be when losing, but I respect him as a strong player and a strong personality. People look up to the progamers because of their ability and drive. People who make it to the top in anything should have confidence in their own abilities. How pathetic is it that tons of people respect Genius as a pro Protoss player when he himself doesnt have self-respect as a Protoss player? For me "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" = "Terran OP". Same as complaining. | ||
SlapMySalami
United States1060 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:48 clockwork. wrote: you're all missing the most important thing: we can pick his race ~the people's progamer~ i vote random! | ||
NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On November 21 2010 21:54 cascades wrote: For good or for ill, the perception is that only whines work on Blizzard. Zerg didn't get buffs for a long time. Only until Dimage, FruitDealer, and Check whined publicly that they did. Problem is, Blizzard seems to not intend to buff Protoss. Take BW. Protoss is the weakest race, but they didn't whine (enough) for a change to be made. Hence, this worrying trend continues. Unless Blizzard is more proactive rather than reactive, whine threads will become even more commonplace. Proactive? Reactive? The game has only been out for 4 months! What do you want, weekly patches like the beta? Where the game is fundamentally changing constantly? Where nobody gets to really let strategy develop, interact, mutate, and evolve over time? What Blizzard has been is thoughtful and measured in their patches. They aren't quick to accept the conventional wisdom. They aren't just going to assume that, because some people complain, there is a problem that requires immediate action. And no; Blizzard did not buff the Zerg because a few progamers whined about it. Those changes were already in process when the progamers got into it. On November 21 2010 22:12 Woony wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 22:10 Kyuki wrote: On November 21 2010 21:58 IdrA wrote: On November 21 2010 21:56 Kyuki wrote: On November 21 2010 21:00 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:58 Supamang wrote: On November 21 2010 20:50 lol12tree wrote: On November 21 2010 20:45 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Getting tired of these people threatening to change race. It's whichever race isn't winning tournaments immediately complains about everything. Very annoying and sad. If you want switch race just fucking switch race and don't bother us with these ridiculous threats. It's so obvious the only reason they do this is not because they believe in the balance they proclaim but only because they are looking out for themselves and want an easier time winning shit. Again not to be a prick but if you actually read more clearly; Genius says that he is asking the fans which race to change to, he is not threating to change his race. I repeat, he is NOT threatening to change his race. He has already decided to give up on protoss he is asking the fans which way they want him to go. That sounds very reasonable to me. Sure people can turn this into a whine party but is that genius responsibility? Heck genius is not even asking us (presumably) hes asking his korean fans. Sorry man, but I think thats a stupid notion. Genius is a pro player, far better than any of his fans. He would know the nuances of the races much better than any of us, so he wouldnt need any input from his fans. Furthermore, most of his fans would follow him because they like Protoss. Of course they would prefer that hed stay as Protoss above anything else. This sounds like he wants to make the threat but is trying to be sneaky about it, like "No im not an attention whore! Im just asking for input!" whats up with this biasism, when dimaga voiced his concern and change from Z to possibly T , people took him seriously, so why not genius? Does Dimaga have some sort of special credit behind him that genius doesn't? Fill me in on this one. I said the exact same things in Dimagas and Fruitdealers posts. It's imo disgusting and childish behaviour to cry out like this to the public. blizzard watches public opinion and the public is retarded, if you feel somethings unfair its only logical to try and swing public opinion your way. I agree it's logical, it does not make it more honerable to be crying, or whatever you wanna call it. Even though blizzard listens, they have shown several times with different patches that they do quite the oposite of what the crowd thinks is needed, and somehow that have made players change up their play and adapt to something that they did not think would work. So regardless of what people say about them I think they have more clue than most. Blizzard seriously deserve some cred even though they can't make fucking chatchannels... I mean is there no pride? Whine and cry by all means, but really, do it privately and then look back at your game and try harder? Everything is not figured out... I'm pretty certain that you would think different if you were trying to make a career off Starcraft. Certainly. So maybe it's not a good idea to try to make a career off of a 4 month old game that still has 2 expansions to come and will have innumerable balance patches made for it. People keep trying to make StarCraft II grow up much faster than SC1 had to. It's not going to happen. If you're going to be a pro-gamer in the early days of SC2, you're going to have to accept that the game will have these kinds of things. | ||
Tone_
United Kingdom554 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:54 NicolBolas wrote: Certainly. So maybe it's not a good idea to try to make a career off of a 4 month old game that still has 2 expansions to come and will have innumerable balance patches made for it. People keep trying to make StarCraft II grow up much faster than SC1 had to. It's not going to happen. If you're going to be a pro-gamer in the early days of SC2, you're going to have to accept that the game will have these kinds of things. So you suggest that people don't play pro SC2 because it's not got its expansions out yet? So we should wait like 5 - 6 - 7 more years? How is he trying to make SC2 grow up fast? Is there a single second of logical thought whilst you were typing this? I'm pretty sure he accepts that toss currently has its limitations, hence why he's thinking of changing. He's not even posting saing FUUUU CHANGE THIS. | ||
ace246
Australia360 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:38 Tone_ wrote: Okay let's think about it with a small amount of logic from start to finish. If you play a game professionally and are good at it but consistently get under-par results then I'd imagine it does get frustrating. This may cause you to put the occasional rant on a forum or something (Fruitdealer, Boxer). These are some of the highest level players so until you are at their level I don't see how people can compare their own, or any other "whiners" situations to theirs. Secondly he is posting a fairly calm, question based post within his own community. Nazgul and othe mods, tbh if it pisses you off then why do you have this stuff on the forums. Did he come to TL and post it? No. So what's happening is we're taking something that wasn't even posted to TL, and bitching about how he's shoving his complaining down our throats? </logic> The most intelligent post i've seen in this thread. Looking at the playxp discussion, no one there is arguing about it at all, they just vote off the race they want and yet here, we have a bunch of arguments about nothing which could possibly be something but no proof that it is. Nazgul and other people are ranting about how genius is complaining about the balance issue yet if you go to the original source, it was just presented as a simple question and genius did not even spread the word beyond playxp, just some TL bystander who happened to see his post and posted it here, instigating useless arguments that have no proof. | ||
ensis
Germany340 Posts
the problem is, no one knows, what the current problem with protoss really is. pvz right now is a mess of cheesing and experimenting (which is good) and pvt didnt change since beta aside from some buildordertweaks in the terrans favor. is the problem pvt? some say yes, some say no, screaming imbalances no, bad feeling playing the matchup, hell yes. is pvz imbalanced? same story, some toss do fairly well, others just get destroyed. you cant just buff gateway units. its a dilemma at least in my eyes, and everyone who claims that everythings so easy and that the problem is obvious (marauder,roach) is just dumb imo. | ||
ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
People keep trying to make StarCraft II grow up much faster than SC1 had to. It's not going to happen. If you're going to be a pro-gamer in the early days of SC2, you're going to have to accept that the game will have these kinds of things. It's already happening. The community is HUGE in comparison and so well connected. Word and strategies spread quickly and the pro scene is already taking off. Blizzard is investing much more money in this game than they did the original. It not only can grow up faster. It has to grow up faster. However, people always come with stupid suggestions that are obviously not well thought out. And of course, if we're discussing pro level play then it makes sense that we should listen to what progamers have to say. I would love if tester, sangho, inca and genius produced a wall of text of how they perceive each match up. But of course, if they did, there would be a huge outcry that they were "whining", even if they only posted their true, honest thoughts about the game. That's sad ;o. | ||
KevinIX
United States2472 Posts
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
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Metalwing
Turkey1038 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:10 ace246 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 21:46 Metalwing wrote: IdrA always had talks about balance. But instead of saying "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch", he said "I don't play Terran because I have self respect". I'd expect the same from the Protoss players. But they just don't care. They just QQ like the little kids do. Terran suits Genius better. He should play Terran definitely. Are you implying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is a better statement than "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch"? If so, thats kinda stupid isn't it? I mean saying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is pretty much BM to all the other terrans. Whereas "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch" isn't really offensive to anyone. I looked at what I wrote and I didn't say anything about if it's really a better statement or not. But I think it is. IdrA not changing his race once Zerg was OP makes him a person with self respect, only the way he expresses this fact is controversial. But now, Protoss is the underdog, and I see one of the most influential Protoss progamer switching his race like the scrubs in the ladder. I saw better "Fuck this I'm switching races" threads/blogs in TL. IdrA's statemets about Terran is as controversial as Genius himself but this is what you call self respect? Do you see Genius as a man with self-respect now? And you know what, I've been playing Zerg since I started playing (that's 1.03 patch, the real Zerg Underpowered patch, and I knew that Zerg was underpowered when I chose my race) and I am a real fan of IdrA. Not because he hates cheese, he BMs or any funky stuff like that (I like IdrA BM and his view on cheese btw.); it's because he has self respect and the guts to stand against all odds. He makes one clear statement even at the times when zerg was a joke in his opinion: I play zerg and I won't switch. On November 21 2010 22:40 Supamang wrote: wait, how did the "general consensus" in Korea go from PvZ being P favored (zomg even worse than TvZ some say!) to it being Z favored? maybe ive been an idiot all along for believing people when they say "well koreans say *blah* so it must be true" Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 22:10 ace246 wrote: On November 21 2010 21:46 Metalwing wrote: IdrA always had talks about balance. But instead of saying "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch", he said "I don't play Terran because I have self respect". I'd expect the same from the Protoss players. But they just don't care. They just QQ like the little kids do. Terran suits Genius better. He should play Terran definitely. Are you implying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is a better statement than "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch"? If so, thats kinda stupid isn't it? I mean saying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is pretty much BM to all the other terrans. Whereas "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch" isn't really offensive to anyone. If Metalwing was implying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is a better statement than "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch", then I completely agree with him. At least Idra has self-respect, and not because he doesn't play terran. its because he believes in himself and his own abilities to the end and keeps his head up high despite going against the odds. I am no Idra lover either. Ive always disliked his BM and how much of an asshole he can be when losing, but I respect him as a strong player and a strong personality. People look up to the progamers because of their ability and drive. People who make it to the top in anything should have confidence in their own abilities. How pathetic is it that tons of people respect Genius as a pro Protoss player when he himself doesnt have self-respect as a Protoss player? I didn't imply but I definitely think like that and thanks for explaining my view. On November 21 2010 22:53 bokeevboke wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 22:40 Supamang wrote: wait, how did the "general consensus" in Korea go from PvZ being P favored (zomg even worse than TvZ some say!) to it being Z favored? maybe ive been an idiot all along for believing people when they say "well koreans say *blah* so it must be true" On November 21 2010 22:10 ace246 wrote: On November 21 2010 21:46 Metalwing wrote: IdrA always had talks about balance. But instead of saying "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch", he said "I don't play Terran because I have self respect". I'd expect the same from the Protoss players. But they just don't care. They just QQ like the little kids do. Terran suits Genius better. He should play Terran definitely. Are you implying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is a better statement than "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch"? If so, thats kinda stupid isn't it? I mean saying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is pretty much BM to all the other terrans. Whereas "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch" isn't really offensive to anyone. If Metalwing was implying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is a better statement than "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch", then I completely agree with him. At least Idra has self-respect, and not because he doesn't play terran. its because he believes in himself and his own abilities to the end and keeps his head up high despite going against the odds. I am no Idra lover either. Ive always disliked his BM and how much of an asshole he can be when losing, but I respect him as a strong player and a strong personality. People look up to the progamers because of their ability and drive. People who make it to the top in anything should have confidence in their own abilities. How pathetic is it that tons of people respect Genius as a pro Protoss player when he himself doesnt have self-respect as a Protoss player? For me "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" = "Terran OP". Same as complaining. Yeah, but it's a better one than "I'll switch if toss isn't fixed". | ||
Logros
Netherlands9913 Posts
The QQ has been as high for P the last few weeks as it was for Z and it will probably skyrocket even more when the GSL starts again and the remaining Protoss start dropping like flies. | ||
cocosoft
Sweden1068 Posts
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Supamang
United States2298 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:53 bokeevboke wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 22:40 Supamang wrote: wait, how did the "general consensus" in Korea go from PvZ being P favored (zomg even worse than TvZ some say!) to it being Z favored? maybe ive been an idiot all along for believing people when they say "well koreans say *blah* so it must be true" On November 21 2010 22:10 ace246 wrote: On November 21 2010 21:46 Metalwing wrote: IdrA always had talks about balance. But instead of saying "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch", he said "I don't play Terran because I have self respect". I'd expect the same from the Protoss players. But they just don't care. They just QQ like the little kids do. Terran suits Genius better. He should play Terran definitely. Are you implying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is a better statement than "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch"? If so, thats kinda stupid isn't it? I mean saying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is pretty much BM to all the other terrans. Whereas "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch" isn't really offensive to anyone. If Metalwing was implying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is a better statement than "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch", then I completely agree with him. At least Idra has self-respect, and not because he doesn't play terran. its because he believes in himself and his own abilities to the end and keeps his head up high despite going against the odds. I am no Idra lover either. Ive always disliked his BM and how much of an asshole he can be when losing, but I respect him as a strong player and a strong personality. People look up to the progamers because of their ability and drive. People who make it to the top in anything should have confidence in their own abilities. How pathetic is it that tons of people respect Genius as a pro Protoss player when he himself doesnt have self-respect as a Protoss player? For me "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" = "Terran OP". Same as complaining. Yes, its the same as complaining, but thats not what the race changers are doing. Race changers are taking it to Emo level by threatening to change their race. Lets put it this way. Everyone complains about their life sucking at some point, but Emos are the ones cutting their wrists while doing it. Idra mighta been complaining, but he wasnt threatening to take action over it. Genius might genuinely be thinking of changing races, know one except he can know for sure until he does or announces he wont. But given the fact that the only progamer I can think of off the top of my head who switched races were TLO and MorroW, and NEITHER of them were whining or threatening the race change beforehand. The others just went, "sike! im still gonna be *race* " after sufficient attention and cries for mercy were given to them. Theyre like kids threatening to run away from home when they dont like something. Again, its pathetic. | ||
Huragius
Lithuania1506 Posts
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Panoptic
United Kingdom515 Posts
A) because I really don't care, especially when the threat is so empty. B) if you have a 10 page thread on TL about it you're only going to give his whine more credibility...and if you don't interpret his announcement as a public comment about balance then...you're being silly poo head. | ||
ensis
Germany340 Posts
On November 21 2010 23:05 KevinIX wrote: So we've now come full circle. Terran UP, Zerg UP, and now Protoss UP. Woooh! the sad thing is, terran never really was up. they just needed time to figure it out. and thats what people want protoss players to do. but honestly it wont happen. | ||
Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
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ensis
Germany340 Posts
On November 21 2010 23:17 Fantistic wrote: Another reason why I dislike these threads is that Genius probably won't switch race at all. Next time a pro wants to blow off steam and exaggerate about imbalance, do it without saying "I'll switch race if Blizzard doesn't do something.". Otherwise, it spawns these types of threads which ultimately ends in yet another balance discussion. well, the first one was dimaga alongside with fruitdealer, latter won the first gsl. the next one was foxer, i think, he got 2nd in 2nd gsl and now genius wants to change.... maybe it helps! | ||
Polygamy
Austria1114 Posts
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gm.tOSS
Germany898 Posts
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Tone_
United Kingdom554 Posts
On November 21 2010 23:17 Fantistic wrote: Another reason why I dislike these threads is that Genius probably won't switch race at all. Next time a pro wants to blow off steam and exaggerate about imbalance, do it without saying "I'll switch race if Blizzard doesn't do something.". Otherwise, it spawns these types of threads which ultimately ends in yet another balance discussion. I really struggle to see why you bother posting stuff like this. First off it's clear you haven't read anything about this besides probably the title. The guy posted a question about switching race to one site in Korea. He didn't say "unless Blizz changes x", he didn't say "toss is UP". He just asked a small calm question to a community. TL gets their hands on it and it's a 10 page rage thread about how Genius is raging and whining to everyone. Where is the sense. | ||
Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
On November 21 2010 23:19 ensis wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 23:17 Fantistic wrote: Another reason why I dislike these threads is that Genius probably won't switch race at all. Next time a pro wants to blow off steam and exaggerate about imbalance, do it without saying "I'll switch race if Blizzard doesn't do something.". Otherwise, it spawns these types of threads which ultimately ends in yet another balance discussion. well, the first one was dimaga alongside with fruitdealer, latter won the first gsl. the next one was foxer, i think, he got 2nd in 2nd gsl and now genius wants to change.... maybe it helps! Don't forget BoxeR threatening to switch to random if Terran isn't buffed. | ||
Supamang
United States2298 Posts
On November 21 2010 22:57 ace246 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 22:38 Tone_ wrote: Okay let's think about it with a small amount of logic from start to finish. If you play a game professionally and are good at it but consistently get under-par results then I'd imagine it does get frustrating. This may cause you to put the occasional rant on a forum or something (Fruitdealer, Boxer). These are some of the highest level players so until you are at their level I don't see how people can compare their own, or any other "whiners" situations to theirs. Secondly he is posting a fairly calm, question based post within his own community. Nazgul and othe mods, tbh if it pisses you off then why do you have this stuff on the forums. Did he come to TL and post it? No. So what's happening is we're taking something that wasn't even posted to TL, and bitching about how he's shoving his complaining down our throats? </logic> The most intelligent post i've seen in this thread. Looking at the playxp discussion, no one there is arguing about it at all, they just vote off the race they want and yet here, we have a bunch of arguments about nothing which could possibly be something but no proof that it is. Nazgul and other people are ranting about how genius is complaining about the balance issue yet if you go to the original source, it was just presented as a simple question and genius did not even spread the word beyond playxp, just some TL bystander who happened to see his post and posted it here, instigating useless arguments that have no proof. Again, why would he genuinely consider his "fans" opinion for what race he should play? it doesnt make sense. He knows the game better than his fans so he knows what race would suit his play style better. PLUS, people who vote in that poll will either be his actual fans who will predominately vote Protoss, or theyll be people who know who he is who will vote Terran or Zerg. There is no rational reason to ask his fans what race he should play, since his true fans will mostly want him to stay protoss. People who are famous know they are famous. Especially in Korea where the game has more cultural influence, things he says in a blog will be known by a much wider audience. Celebrities here do stupid shit all the time and it gets blown up in the media (i mean no one was like "Tiger's marital problems are his private business and its not like he was shoving it down our throats, so why does everyone make a fuss about it?"). Genius will know that what he is saying will have an influence in the SC2 community. It doesn't matter whether or not it was posted on TL. Because Blizzard pays attention to the progamers' opinions when it comes to balance, they dont have to "shove things down our throats" for things they say to be relevant to the SC2 community as a whole. | ||
Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
On November 21 2010 23:22 Tone_ wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 23:17 Fantistic wrote: Another reason why I dislike these threads is that Genius probably won't switch race at all. Next time a pro wants to blow off steam and exaggerate about imbalance, do it without saying "I'll switch race if Blizzard doesn't do something.". Otherwise, it spawns these types of threads which ultimately ends in yet another balance discussion. I really struggle to see why you bother posting stuff like this. First off it's clear you haven't read anything about this besides probably the title. The guy posted a question about switching race to one site in Korea. He didn't say "unless Blizz changes x", he didn't say "toss is UP". He just asked a small calm question to a community. TL gets their hands on it and it's a 10 page rage thread about how Genius is raging and whining to everyone. Where is the sense. I doubt Genius would want to switch race if he thought Protoss wasn't underpowered. | ||
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On November 21 2010 23:08 Supamang wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2010 22:53 bokeevboke wrote: On November 21 2010 22:40 Supamang wrote: wait, how did the "general consensus" in Korea go from PvZ being P favored (zomg even worse than TvZ some say!) to it being Z favored? maybe ive been an idiot all along for believing people when they say "well koreans say *blah* so it must be true" On November 21 2010 22:10 ace246 wrote: On November 21 2010 21:46 Metalwing wrote: IdrA always had talks about balance. But instead of saying "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch", he said "I don't play Terran because I have self respect". I'd expect the same from the Protoss players. But they just don't care. They just QQ like the little kids do. Terran suits Genius better. He should play Terran definitely. Are you implying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is a better statement than "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch"? If so, thats kinda stupid isn't it? I mean saying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is pretty much BM to all the other terrans. Whereas "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch" isn't really offensive to anyone. If Metalwing was implying that "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" is a better statement than "I'll switch if zerg isn't fixed in the next patch", then I completely agree with him. At least Idra has self-respect, and not because he doesn't play terran. its because he believes in himself and his own abilities to the end and keeps his head up high despite going against the odds. I am no Idra lover either. Ive always disliked his BM and how much of an asshole he can be when losing, but I respect him as a strong player and a strong personality. People look up to the progamers because of their ability and drive. People who make it to the top in anything should have confidence in their own abilities. How pathetic is it that tons of people respect Genius as a pro Protoss player when he himself doesnt have self-respect as a Protoss player? For me "I don't play Terran because I have self-respect" = "Terran OP". Same as complaining. Yes, its the same as complaining, but thats not what the race changers are doing. Race changers are taking it to Emo level by threatening to change their race. Lets put it this way. Everyone complains about their life sucking at some point, but Emos are the ones cutting their wrists while doing it. Idra mighta been complaining, but he wasnt threatening to take action over it. Genius might genuinely be thinking of changing races, know one except he can know for sure until he does or announces he wont. But given the fact that the only progamer I can think of off the top of my head who switched races were TLO and MorroW, and NEITHER of them were whining or threatening the race change beforehand. The others just went, "sike! im still gonna be *race* " after sufficient attention and cries for mercy were given to them. Theyre like kids threatening to run away from home when they dont like something. Again, its pathetic. In this post he said "I'm considering changing my race. Please recommend the race which seems to be more suitable for me" Asking fans what race he should switch and not a single complain word - is it pathetic? | ||
Liquid`Nazgul
22426 Posts
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