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Regarding the current JoeKim Scandal *gasp*
Hello TL community, iCCup Admins, as well as haters of all shapes and sizes. Let me enlighten you all with a good read without delving too much in the past.
I became an iCCup Clan League Admin over a year and a half ago, recruited by iCCup.ToH1o. Being a player, I have been competing in iCCupCL as well as WGTCL, NASCL, BWML, BWCL, and others. At the initial hype of SC2's release and during their beta stages, Brood War took a big hit and the best teams all resigned from prestigious leagues (ToT, mouz, RoX, etc). Some resigned before CL Seasons began, some resigned at the end, and some resigned mid-season after realizing the inactivity of their teams.
All in all, iCCupCL became a disaster. So much of a disaster that even ToH1o couldn't bare to deal with something that was bound to die. That is where I came in and invested over 30 hours a week modifying and stabilizing a league that I was passionate about. BWCL eventually fell off the richter scale once it pretty much became 2 Divisions with a format of two 1v1s and one 2v2. Baring witness to this, I vowed to never left iCCupCL drop to that status.
I put in grueling hours of work and made numerous adjustments so that the leaders and players would have a fair league to represent their team. When I was making some money, I was planning to throw in a Prize for the Champions at the end of every Season, but that notion was shot down really quickly (I'll explain why, later in this). During my days as an Admin, I went out of my way to solidify the foundation of iCCupCL by making sure there were no cracks nor flaws. It even got to a point whereas Trial Admins couldn't bare to deal with my strict duties and over-achieving tendencies. The only one that had valor was iCCup.Kerotan. Being an iCCupCL Admin was considered one of the toughest, if not the toughest, branch on the whole server. I forced my admins to be at every Clan War every Saturday (8am PST, 11am EST, 12pm KST) making sure everything was running smoothly. They also had Forum duties, Draw Fixing duties, as well as checking every single replay uploaded by the players.
I pour my heart and soul into everything that I do online and offline. Bottom line: iCCupCL was my pride and joy. I went inactive for a little bit because I was falling behind in college. Kerotan was appointed as my replacement, and I was glad because no one else was better suited for the job. However, Kerotan crumbled quickly under the bullshit Head Admining of iCCup.Messer (see spoiler). Without Kerotan, iCCupCL was becoming shaky and my foundation was losing it's value. Fearing this, I became a part-time admin by smurfing as Kerotan and helping him behind the scenes. Eventually, Kerotan was kicked out for his inactivity and there was nothing I could do to remedy that situation without getting my IP tracked.
Fortunately, Messer "resigned" and smurfed as ICCUP.09032010. Then iCCup.nOoNe got the job as Head Admin and I was fucking happy. I hopped back on the Admin Staff with Full Honors and picked off where Kerotan left for me. It was a strenuous mess, but after 40 hours, I got iCCupCL back where it always should have been. I introduced iCCupCL being casted, the CL Predicitions, the CL Replay of the Week. I saw promise, I saw revival. Everything was going pretty well until there was inner turmoil among the iCCup Staff.
Many Admins started to abuse their powers against players, as well as against other admins. Shit got sour really fast. iCCup.nOoNe had to be the middleman and try to keep order, but he alone can only bare so much. ISL almost got completely fucked over and Brood War would have taken another major blow to it's cancerful kidney. I will not go into much of those details since there were threads on it before. But, I will go into my resignation though. A combination of drama, bullshit, dumbass admins, as well as frenzy with no hope made me quit again.
Then the server fucked over 100,000 accounts by deleting them from their database. My 113-33 [A] rank 1v1 account was gone, as well as my Admin account with over 400 important CL Threads and PMs, and a few others that had importance to me. From that point on, I never wanted to be an Admin again especially since nOoNe quit shortly after, and Messer was reappointed.
However, my heart was still with iCCupCL. iCCup.Supreme was completely oblivious to the whole thing. He went from baby steps to a man under my guidance. I had to teach him from The Basics to How to handle playoffs. For those of the teams that were in the playoffs (LRM, Nb, FR, iFU) you guys probably didn't know that Supreme wasn't going to show up. Which was the reason why I was there moderating until I grabbed Supreme to come online. iCCupCL was pretty much going to be entirely handled through Forums. If you are an experienced CL player, you know that that would be fucking ridiculous. Therefore, I clenched my teeth and smurfed as Supreme just to help out again.
This was very temporary because Supreme was not that active and I saw his demotion coming a mile away. Judging off the cluelessness of all the CL Admins, I was contemplating on coming back to help as iCCup.JoeKim. But I would never let myself be under the most abusive Admin, Messer. So I created a smurf account and gave it CL access to Troll the CL Admin Forums and see what was going on. Low and behold, Supreme gets demoted and Messer is the acting CL Super Admin. Everyone was fucking up left and right. They were destroying iCCupCL with new bullshit and lack of caring for Teams/Players.
I was hinting to them to realize their faults here: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/community/thread/181424.html
That account got banned for me saying that Admins are scampering in ignorance. Apparently that was the same account I was placing my CL Predictions with here: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/community/thread/175731.html
Whereas iCCup.GeckoXP wrote:
If you got your main account banned, do not post here with a smurf. If the admins can make the conncetion between Smurf and banned main account, we will remove both accounts from the scoring.
Thus, I replied...
wow, you're seriously refraining me from participating in this? you're really over your head, Michael. And to enlighten you a bit, Smurf is a term referring to concealing one's identity. In addition, you wouldn't be counting twice if you see "vTv.JoeKim" & "JoeKim"...that's not logical to count twice. this is truly haywire bias especially since the one month ban was over this: + Show Spoiler +#4 Posted: 22 May @ 22:32 PST Thanks for the effort in explaining.
Clearly you do not grasp the subtle aggravation of Teams/Players that have been in this League for over a few years and no Admins had the decency to inform anyone of Rules being changed.
How difficult is it for the person who modified the Rules, to just copy/paste the new ones or the changed ones into a Sticky Post in the Clan League Forums? If the job is too much to handle, and the lackadaisical attitude continues, why not just get rid of iCCupCL? The only Admin who had the passion for this League was demoted and the remaining Admins are scampering in ignorance.
Bring this to the attention of Cheloman or someone with experience, the current staff remains clueless, even in regards to my PMs.
User was banned for this post till 23 Jun @ 17:49 PST by admin ICCUP.Messer. Reason: keep your opinions about admins to yourself you of all people, know my contributions to iCCup. and clearly this system of predictions was derived from my exploit and experience. however, you have the audacity to make up a new rule just because of vendetta?
Then, he modified his post with:
Rule applies from now on.
€2: Since this ruling makes still confuses people:
A ban is a punishment. If you are banned, there is always a reason for the ban. If you got wrongfully banned, you can do a CAA. I do not want people to get in here with AKAs or Smurfs to post, simply dodging their punishment. I do not care that you can post elsewhere, in this topic you're a person non-grata if you got yourself a red user title.
Same applies for making predictions from two accounts of the same owner on the same play day. I will not tolerate any more posts that question this ruling. Anybody breaking this rule will get an additional timeout to his already existing ban.
Leading into the vTv Scandal.
Let's see how to fortify this situation without tickling too many fancies. I will have to dig through logs and screenshots for solidity but it would be unnecessary if the plaintiffs bore witness. Before this Clan League Season started, we were asked by Admins if we would enter. We declined since it was the lowest division and we did not want to start there. With that said, we were informed that if before mid-CL season higher teams (Div B) were to drop out, we would replace their slot and play the prior Clan Wars at a convenient time. This method has happened numerous seasons before, mainly in part of SC2's release and the notion that BW is "dying." When the qualification stage started for this season, I've realized that my team should get prepared (whether it be games or getting accustomed to the routine date/time) and thus I requested qualify and temporarily be in Division C. It was agreed upon that if no teams dropped out of their Division, vTv would have to start from the bottom. I was fine with that. Low and behold, 4 teams dropped out. I've been trying to contact CL Admins to rectify the foretold situation yet to no avail since there has been inactivity and confusion.
A couple of seasons ago, 17+ Teams dropped out. And before that, even more. iCCupCL went from Divisions A,B1,B2,C1,C2,C3,C4 to A,B1,B2,C1,C2 and finally A,B1,B2,C1 which is what we have now. During that process, many deserving as well as undeserving were given 2nd chances and opportunities. They replaced teams that dropped out and/or skipped Divisions. Some were based on stature, some were based on pure luck.
Ironically, teams such as sas, [AoV], Manner], fOsc, (OD), aFF, ash, and more than likely the teams of the gamers posting here, have all been given some sort of "special" treatment. I have logs with Pez, Bliss, Tony, and many other leaders who've all said "Thank You" not too long ago. Most of the gratitude was expressed from teams that were banned for the 2 walkover rule, they know who they are.
With this said, I am not aware of how everything was orchestrated but I am grateful for admins keeping their word and keeping this league alive. CL has been shaky since my departure yet it is starting to improve slowly but surely. Some of the gamers that have posted in this thread are posing threats of withdrawal in protest. By all means, do what you feel inclined to do. This was not the first time a team was seeded higher before mid-season. Those of you with experience would remember the clan wars played on a different time/date for substitutes. The main difference is that the majority of those teams weren't as decorated as this one.
Thank you for your time and comprehension.
EDIT: One of many logs...
Conversation with yello-ant@hotmail.com at 7/7/2010 2:05:56 PM on j0ekim@hotmail.com (msn) (2:05:56 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: hey (2:06:21 PM) Joe Kim: hey (2:06:35 PM) Joe Kim: i figured out all the replacements (2:06:40 PM) Joe Kim: so it will be the last time (2:06:42 PM) Joe Kim: for this season (2:06:52 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: thats nice, but we have major issue with the maps (2:06:56 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: and we need your help (2:07:08 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: did you check my PM? (2:08:05 PM) Joe Kim: yeah (2:08:10 PM) Joe Kim: but i dont understand it (2:08:14 PM) Joe Kim: i never dealt with maps (2:08:30 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: can you please check the mapdori site if they have there new protector or unprotector (2:08:33 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: for the maps (2:08:40 PM) Joe Kim: is it in korean? (2:08:43 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: yes (2:08:43 PM) Joe Kim: i'm not fluent (2:08:53 PM) Joe Kim: you can't get a hold of Mai-K? (2:10:14 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: ill PM Mai-K then (2:10:16 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: thanks (2:14:04 PM) Joe Kim: would you be able to help me out with the clan league replacements? or are you busy (2:14:44 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: gimme the list ill make a not to the dev crew (2:14:51 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: with the clan links please (2:14:52 PM) Joe Kim: ok (2:14:56 PM) Joe Kim: clan names better? links? IDs? (2:15:06 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: full link to the clan page (2:15:11 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: clan name and clan link (2:15:23 PM) Joe Kim: ok, that'll take me 2 min (2:21:10 PM) Joe Kim: Division A: 7even -> aFF]
Division B1: sO -> gNs.I
Division B2: Ghost -> JST- ZZZ -> sas. imba. -> ash.
As a last resort and being fed up with all of this shit, I took matters into my own hands and manually moved vTv into a disqualified team's slot. Since everything was being completely ignored even though there was more than enough proof to seed vTv in a higher division, as promised. Frankly, I was not bothered by vTv being in Division C. I was bothered by CL Admins, not doing a damn thing. There was no explanation or guidance: http://www.iccup.com/community/thread/185128.html
Everybody knows that we are only as strong as our weakest link. That weakest link happens to be Messer, therefore the detrimental fall will be inevitable. iCCup.Messer + Show Spoiler +
Call it what you want to call it. Abuse? Cheating? Hacking? I don't care. Whatever insolent term it's labelled as, my actions barely scratch the surface. It is insignificant in comparison to Messer's actions. All I did was move a team in an empty slot that they were promised. When I've had the power to do so, it was praised and glorified by said-teams. When I don't have the power to do so, it's considered abuse/cheat/hack.
Which brings me to the Money Prize obligation. Simply put, the majority of the players in the league/server are undeserving scum. Two-faced individuals that are utterly ungrateful when you sacrifice your time and efforts just to help them. Then when you make a minor error, it's exploited and complete animosity arises.
Overall, what's done is done. I'm IP banned for taking actions into my own hands. If I wanted to, I could have easily destroyed everything. That's not my personality, especially since iCCup already has Admins pertaining to that role.
In addition, I am aware that not all of iCCup's Staff is corrupt. There are a few that I still respect and I have always respected for their countless efforts to help and their great hearts. Thank you all, for striving for balance. And thank you for reading this rant. I haven't gotten everything off my chest, yet I am at peace with the knowledge that I have bestowed upon the community.
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They did something wrong, so I can do something wrong too and be justified. Wow, that's a great way to rationalize cheating. This tale of yours is so hilariously arrogant and self-serving that I can't take it seriously on any level even though I don't know anything about it. Your whole post is hypocritical to the max. It's actually mind boggling.
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Good job Joekim, haha, i've been in iCCup since 2009, probably back in like season 6 or something. I agree that Messer is the worst admin out there in the team, and all of your points are valid. It's sad to see such a passionate admin and a player leave the iCCup team and the server altogether, but I guess it's time to move on.
The times when nOoNe was head admin were the happiest times on iCCup that I probably had, the time when iCCup was at it's peak and iCC Cl was at the peak of its popularity, and now it's fallen. We'll miss you Joekim D:
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On June 04 2011 07:28 koreasilver wrote: They did something wrong, so I can do something wrong too and be justified. Wow, that's a great way to rationalize cheating. This tale of yours is so hilariously arrogant and self-serving that I can't take it seriously on any level even though I don't know anything about it. Your whole post is hypocritical to the max. It's actually mind boggling.
thanks bud, "can't beat 'em, do what they do" right?
i'll make sure to PM you when i begin to care what you think <3
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On June 04 2011 07:30 TickTockBoom wrote: Good job Joekim, haha, i've been in iCCup since 2009, probably back in like season 6 or something. I agree that Messer is the worst admin out there in the team, and all of your points are valid. It's sad to see such a passionate admin and a player leave the iCCup team and the server altogether, but I guess it's time to move on.
The times when nOoNe was head admin were the happiest times on iCCup that I probably had, the time when iCCup was at it's peak and iCC Cl was at the peak of its popularity, and now it's fallen. We'll miss you Joekim D:
ah, i don't know you as ticktockboom but thanks for your response man, i appreciate it!
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Yeah, , I changed my AKA from time to time, but I recognized you from the beginning as one of the best admins around. Being a skilled StarCraft player, and organizing iCC CL, I practically looked up to you while I was playing Brood War, sad to see you go though :[.
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On June 04 2011 07:32 Megaliskuu wrote:Before this becomes a shitfest of iccup people and everyone else, I'd like to paste this thread. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195442For people who just wanna play the game, follow this, start OP teamliquid, make kor friends, iccup is just endless nonsense and drama.
For most of us, iCCup actually works fairly well. I'm not disregarding the problems with administration or things that happen in the higher levels of the ladder like CL, but for the average D~C player, iCCup is perfectly fine. Please keep playing there guys, I enjoy being able to speak English when playing BW T_T
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Didn't this subject just get closed last time?
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The immaturity is mind-boggling.
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I really wonder which will happen first, A) Nina, Geckoxp, cheloman, or Messer comes in to give their view of the world from when they look down at it B) A teamliquid MOD will shut this down to prevent drama - since they shut down iCCup's rant within a day (IntoTheWow)
With that said, I think this one has more basis for being a "blog" than iCCup's blog persay, and could get much better results even though it has a very similar premise. Actually... that's only in theory, enough people dislike JoeKim to derail this quickly.
Also Funnytoss, I agree. iCCup is great for people who have no vested interest in the actions of the staff, which is actually like 70% of the server, so under that philosophy, iCCup is great.
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This blog is especially hurtful to me. When I rejoined the ladder team several seasons ago (not an admin now), 2easy offered me the head admin position. I politely declined using school as an excuse, but I think the real reason was I was afraid of failing the admin team. So 2easy passed the choice on to Messer to become the head admin, and I automatically had a very bad feeling about it. All I knew about him was that he was recently promoted as full admin...
It wasn't barely two weeks into his role as head admin when Messer started to plunge his hand down my throat. At that time, the complaint page was nearing 14 pages (guessing but it was a lot), and I either had to choose between solving the complaints as quick as I could, meaning I choose the most minimum necessities in solving the case, or solving each one by checking the entire replay, checking bwchart, checking gaming stats, etc. which took so long! By using the quick method, I could have been giving points to players who did not earn it, but I relied on player's trust and on the opponents complaining about my decision.
A week into this method, not a single complaint about my decisions from opposing players. Two weeks in, Messer inquires about how I solve my complaints, and when I told him what I did, he berates me for not following the correct rules. Really? At least two pages of complaints are added each day, and he expected the ladder team to solve each complaint by following all procedures, as well as, making sure all complaints were solved by the end of the season?
Good luck in the future, JoeKim. You poured so much of your time and dedication into your team. I wish I was right alongside with you to help out.
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On June 04 2011 07:33 JoeKim wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 07:28 koreasilver wrote: They did something wrong, so I can do something wrong too and be justified. Wow, that's a great way to rationalize cheating. This tale of yours is so hilariously arrogant and self-serving that I can't take it seriously on any level even though I don't know anything about it. Your whole post is hypocritical to the max. It's actually mind boggling. thanks bud, "can't beat 'em, do what they do" right? i'll make sure to PM you when i begin to care what you think <3 If you do the same shit as they do, then you are no different from them and you're just an irresponsible dumbass. iCCup's staff might suck but they were completely justified in kicking your ass to the curb for abusing a power that you secretly left to yourself when you left a position of power. In the real world this is considered as corruption.
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@ Headlines, thanks. I really wish you took 2easy's offer, iCCup would probably be amazing right now.
@ koreasilver, lol you definitely didn't thoroughly read my blog. please be the more responsible dumbass :D
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Continue on with your tall tale.
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Well, i just checked the caa forum and holy shit more than half of the threads are about messer. After seeing a ban too, I just left the forum. There may be at most 3 or 4 stupid and pointless complaints, not all 5000 of them.
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I'm not going to comment on JoeKim's most recent actions, but I know that when we worked together on CL, we held down the fort in a respectable manner, and I don't think JoeKim did anything morally jubious, all our actions where because we loved the game.
After JoeKim left, and I was handed control, it was only me and one part time admin working the section, really meant for 4+ admins. Very quickly, I buckled due to stress from both ICCUP and school, JoeKim offered to lighten the load, and I agreed, it was never meant to be a permanent fixture, only till I could off load some of the RL stress, and it wasn't. I returned to the section, only to be threatened blackmail by another admin. Long story short, I told him to stop being a fucking pussy and actually blackmail me. I did it a public channel and got demoted. Even with the incident, my heart wasn't in admin work any more, getting demoted after a threat of blackmail was the nail in the coffin. I went inactive, and that's where the story ends.
I guess the moral of the story is, I'm struggling to pass a judgement on JoeKim, because my personal experience of him is of someone that cares about the game, perhaps I have beaten wife syndrome, but really it doesn't mater what I think, I no longer play or admin on ICCUP, and its better for my health if I stay out of it.
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@ Kerotan, i hope you're well James. it was great getting to know you. thank you for your post.
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Honestly, I don't understand why this shit is on teamliquid. ICCup business should be posted on iccup imo. Maybe I only see it this way because personally, I don't really care.
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On June 04 2011 08:30 SnowFantasy wrote: Honestly, I don't understand why this shit is on teamliquid. ICCup business should be posted on iccup imo. Maybe I only see it this way because personally, I don't really care. Well he is banned from Iccup and since it is related to foreign bw i don't understand why it shouldn't be posted on TL. Also if you don't care why are you posting lol.
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yeah, boblion pretty much nailed it. but even if i weren't banned, and even if someone else were to link this blog...
[3:26:17 PM] LRM)Voltron: http://www.iccup.com/community/thread/186308.html [3:27:02 PM] Joe Kim: lol, thanks dude. it's like my farewell to iCCupCL Forum + Players [3:27:16 PM] LRM)Voltron: np man [3:27:21 PM] LRM)Voltron: now for me to read it lol [3:40:37 PM] Joe Kim: lol it got deleted so fast [3:41:06 PM] LRM)Voltron: lol funny [3:41:10 PM] LRM)Voltron: want me to repost it ? [3:41:21 PM] Joe Kim: were u given a PM? [3:41:25 PM] LRM)Voltron: lets see [3:41:42 PM] LRM)Voltron: O_oops! It seems that you are banned by admin iccup.geckoxp. Your ban expires: 19 Jan 2038 @ 04:14 CET Ban reason: dead [3:41:55 PM] Joe Kim: oh shit, seriously? [3:42:15 PM] LRM)Voltron: damn now i cant read icccup site anymore lol oh well
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On June 04 2011 08:34 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 08:30 SnowFantasy wrote: Honestly, I don't understand why this shit is on teamliquid. ICCup business should be posted on iccup imo. Maybe I only see it this way because personally, I don't really care. Well he is banned from Iccup and since it is related to foreign bw i don't understand why it shouldn't be posted on TL. Also if you don't care why are you posting lol.
Why not post everything from ICCup BW on teamliquid?
Announce the motw changes on teamliquid. Announce the ladder rule changes on teamliquid. Observer over turret bug was made illegal again. Lets post the ladder results from last season on ICCup too.
I mean it makes sense. They are related to foreign bw. Why shouldn't these things be posted on teamliquid?
Being banned from ICCup doesn't mean this should be posted on teamliquid instead. -_-
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JoeKim you are an awesome guy but what you did was wrong. I stand by and support the ICCup Admins. Further more vTv could NOT have been promised such things because vTv was created on April 4th, 2011 - NOT in 2010. Thus you need to get your facts straight.
Proof:
Please stop lieing...
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@ Tesla, you are misinformed. you do not know what you're talking about. before the current Clan League Season started, vTv was promised a higher slot if any teams in Division B dropped out.
Conversation with iCCup.Supreme on 5/14/2011 10:20:29 PM (10:20:29 PM) iCCup.Supreme: sorry (10:28:06 PM) iCCup.Supreme: your right (10:28:11 PM) iCCup.Supreme: this messer is messing the admin team (10:37:36 PM) Joe: are u here? (10:37:40 PM) iCCup.Supreme: ㅛ데 (10:37:41 PM) iCCup.Supreme: yep (10:37:44 PM) iCCup.Supreme: this is a joke (10:37:45 PM) iCCup.Supreme: LUL (10:37:45 PM) Joe: how is it going? (10:37:48 PM) iCCup.Supreme: im FA now (10:37:56 PM) Joe: hahah (10:38:04 PM) Joe: who's SA? (10:38:09 PM) iCCup.Supreme: and im going to write something for Cheloman (10:38:12 PM) iCCup.Supreme: or any other HA (10:38:16 PM) iCCup.Supreme: no one (10:38:29 PM) iCCup.Supreme: he posted a thread for New SA thing (10:38:34 PM) iCCup.Supreme: if any FA wants to become HA (10:38:37 PM) iCCup.Supreme: pm him (10:38:37 PM) iCCup.Supreme: LUL (10:38:40 PM) iCCup.Supreme: and honestly (10:38:46 PM) iCCup.Supreme: THEY DO NOT EVEN KNOW ANYTHING (10:38:52 PM) iCCup.Supreme: even i dont know everything (10:38:54 PM) iCCup.Supreme: lul (10:39:01 PM) iCCup.Supreme: and hes going pick from one of them (10:39:04 PM) iCCup.Supreme: great news (10:39:57 PM) Joe: wait there is no SA for CL? (10:41:40 PM) Joe: who will replace you? (10:44:01 PM) iCCup.Supreme: Scythe is best i think
Conversation with iCCup.Supreme on 5/30/2011 7:20:55 PM (7:20:55 PM) iCCup.Supreme: yeah joe (7:20:56 PM) iCCup.Supreme: im here (7:21:36 PM) Joe: could you PM yelloAnt as well as CL SA that vTv was promised to replace any Teams that drop out in the higher Dvisions? (7:22:12 PM) iCCup.Supreme: k i will (7:22:18 PM) Joe: thanks
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On June 04 2011 09:04 JoeKim wrote:@ Tesla, you are misinformed. you do not know what you're talking about. before the current Clan League Season started, vTv was promised a higher slot if any teams in Division B dropped out. Show nested quote +Conversation with iCCup.Supreme on 5/14/2011 10:20:29 PM (10:20:29 PM) iCCup.Supreme: sorry (10:28:06 PM) iCCup.Supreme: your right (10:28:11 PM) iCCup.Supreme: this messer is messing the admin team (10:37:36 PM) Joe: are u here? (10:37:40 PM) iCCup.Supreme: ㅛ데 (10:37:41 PM) iCCup.Supreme: yep (10:37:44 PM) iCCup.Supreme: this is a joke (10:37:45 PM) iCCup.Supreme: LUL (10:37:45 PM) Joe: how is it going? (10:37:48 PM) iCCup.Supreme: im FA now (10:37:56 PM) Joe: hahah (10:38:04 PM) Joe: who's SA? (10:38:09 PM) iCCup.Supreme: and im going to write something for Cheloman (10:38:12 PM) iCCup.Supreme: or any other HA (10:38:16 PM) iCCup.Supreme: no one (10:38:29 PM) iCCup.Supreme: he posted a thread for New SA thing (10:38:34 PM) iCCup.Supreme: if any FA wants to become HA (10:38:37 PM) iCCup.Supreme: pm him (10:38:37 PM) iCCup.Supreme: LUL (10:38:40 PM) iCCup.Supreme: and honestly (10:38:46 PM) iCCup.Supreme: THEY DO NOT EVEN KNOW ANYTHING (10:38:52 PM) iCCup.Supreme: even i dont know everything (10:38:54 PM) iCCup.Supreme: lul (10:39:01 PM) iCCup.Supreme: and hes going pick from one of them (10:39:04 PM) iCCup.Supreme: great news (10:39:57 PM) Joe: wait there is no SA for CL? (10:41:40 PM) Joe: who will replace you? (10:44:01 PM) iCCup.Supreme: Scythe is best i think Show nested quote +Conversation with iCCup.Supreme on 5/30/2011 7:20:55 PM (7:20:55 PM) iCCup.Supreme: yeah joe (7:20:56 PM) iCCup.Supreme: im here (7:21:36 PM) Joe: could you PM yelloAnt as well as CL SA that vTv was promised to replace any Teams that drop out in the higher Dvisions? (7:22:12 PM) iCCup.Supreme: k i will (7:22:18 PM) Joe: thanks
JoeKim regardless of what you think you had been promised, Supreme did not last. You should have followed it up. The fact that you took matters into your own hands SCREWED vTv out of getting that position now, no matter what - Unless we can work our way there. What you did was CLEAR VIOLATION of ICCup Rules. It was also CLEAR ABUSE! How can you try to point this on other admins when this is something you did! You of all people, as a previous admin SHOULD know better! Further more, I'm sorry if you feel I am misinformed but the promises..I cant believe that. That would be favoritism. ICCup avoids favoritism. I know this from my history with ICCup. So please stop all this!
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On June 04 2011 09:09 ICCup.Tesla wrote: The fact that you took matters into your own hands SCREWED vTv out of getting that position now, no matter what - Unless we can work our way there. you have no conception of iCCupCL and you're oblivious to what's going on. look, nothing happened to vTv and everything was restored. i was punished for my actions and that has no toll on vTv besides tainting the reputation. a reputation that you have no inclination towards until i pressured you recently into it with the Channel Bot; so that i could get my Windows korean script running and interact with the members in korean. for you to say that i screwed the team out of getting that position is completely false since the points sustain and the Top Division Teams advance at the end of the season. you also probably didn't notice that this "favoritism" has happened every season, since every season teams drop out and other teams couldn't qualify (reserves). your history with iCCup has no remnants of Clan League whatsoever.
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On June 04 2011 09:17 JoeKim wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 09:09 ICCup.Tesla wrote: The fact that you took matters into your own hands SCREWED vTv out of getting that position now, no matter what - Unless we can work our way there. you have no conception of iCCupCL and you're oblivious to what's going on. look, nothing happened to vTv and everything was restored. i was punished for my actions and that has no toll on vTv besides tainting the reputation. a reputation that you have no inclination towards until i pressured you recently into it with the Channel Bot; so that i could get my Windows korean script running and interact with the members in korean. for you to say that i screwed the team out of getting that position is completely false since the points sustain and the Top Division Teams advance at the end of the season. you also probably didn't notice that this "favoritism" has happened every season, since every season teams drop out and other teams couldn't qualify (reserves). your history with iCCup has no remnants of Clan League whatsoever.
You NEVER asked me for any real help up until the bot. If you had said "Tesla I need help with this" I would have done my best to be there! Same as I did with the vTv invitational. I'll admit I don't play BW much or even very often but really are something else to try to say I had no inclination toward the team. If I didn't care about the team I would not have joined. I would have helped you picked the name and say good luck. I expected you to tell me when you needed help. You could have ASKED me how to run stealth bot when having your pc in Korean script, but you didnt ask that. Until recently you simply asked or damn near demanded that I run the bot, making yourself a bit of a pest. You want to throw down about this, we can.
As for everything being restored - That is not the problem. The problem is members of the team looked to you for help! They looked for you to set an example and people when they think of vTv thought of members like you! You really have made vTv look bad and made me stress out having to explain everything to the members, get them back into the team, fix things up, and then have to constantly explain to people on the server why your stupid ass got banned off ICCup for good! As for previous favoritism or whatever else, show the proof or stop it. Also - For someone who accuses others of abuse of powers and failing to be good admins - Why is it that you are trying to ENCOURAGE the abuse? Lets start there!
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I have not seen a log yet of this "promise" unless I've skipped over it. Although I don't that it is relevant now.
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@ Tesla do you have trouble reading? go back to the OP. numerous teams were replaced.
bit of a pest? i just gave you simple instructions to get a bot up and i asked you a couple of times "where is the bot?" i am very discreet with you and usually end up gaming after i tell you to do something.
you didn't have to explain jack shit. all of our members have me on various messengers outside of iCCup. all you had to do was say "ask JoeKim." hell, you could have just set the greet message for the channel as "JoeKim was banned, message him if you care to know why."
@ Jeremy it's in the post with the quoted conversation with iCCup.Supreme and also, if you recall...you were pleading me to get [AoV] back in iCCupCL
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On June 04 2011 09:36 JoeKim wrote:@ Tesla do you have trouble reading? go back to the OP. numerous teams were replaced. bit of a pest? i just gave you simple instructions to get a bot up and i asked you a couple of times "where is the bot?" i am very discreet with you and usually end up gaming after i tell you to do something. you didn't have to explain jack shit. all of our members have me on various messengers outside of iCCup. all you had to do was say "ask JoeKim." hell, you could have just set the greet message for the channel as "JoeKim was banned, message him if you care to know why." @ Jeremy it's in the post with the quoted conversation with iCCup.Supreme and also, if you recall...you were pleading me to get [AoV] back in iCCupCL
I never asked what I did, I know what I've done. I don't recall it "pleading" though, just asked.
Edit: (7:21:36 PM) Joe: could you PM yelloAnt as well as CL SA that vTv was promised to replace any Teams that drop out in the higher Dvisions?
From this I understand here that you say you were promised to replace teams. Not anyone actually promising you a spot.
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On June 04 2011 09:36 JoeKim wrote:@ Tesla do you have trouble reading? go back to the OP. numerous teams were replaced. bit of a pest? i just gave you simple instructions to get a bot up and i asked you a couple of times "where is the bot?" i am very discreet with you and usually end up gaming after i tell you to do something. you didn't have to explain jack shit. all of our members have me on various messengers outside of iCCup. all you had to do was say "ask JoeKim." hell, you could have just set the greet message for the channel as "JoeKim was banned, message him if you care to know why." @ Jeremy it's in the post with the quoted conversation with iCCup.Supreme and also, if you recall...you were pleading me to get [AoV] back in iCCupCL
Saying the logs or claiming that things have happened doesnt prove favoritism. Unless you have CLEAR proof you should stop saying that. Further more you kept msging me about it and pestering me about getting a bot setup for the team cause you couldnt keep running it. I told you the situation my pc is in but I would try anyhow and it took how many days for me to get hold of you once I had my own bot back up and running?
Further more if it were that easy for members to get hold of you - why is it that hours after the situation you still hadnt responded in the facebook chat but you had been posting stuff on the front of your facebook? Clearly some of the members feel betrayed by you. You still have YET to answer why it is that you can get away with accusing others of abusing admin power and then you think you have the right to ENCOURAGE people to abuse the powers. Any statement towards that JoeKim?
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On June 04 2011 09:44 ICCup.Tesla wrote: Saying the logs or claiming that things have happened doesnt prove favoritism. Unless you have CLEAR proof you should stop saying that. Further more you kept msging me about it and pestering me about getting a bot setup for the team cause you couldnt keep running it. I told you the situation my pc is in but I would try anyhow and it took how many days for me to get hold of you once I had my own bot back up and running?
Further more if it were that easy for members to get hold of you - why is it that hours after the situation you still hadnt responded in the facebook chat but you had been posting stuff on the front of your facebook? Clearly some of the members feel betrayed by you. You still have YET to answer why it is that you can get away with accusing others of abusing admin power and then you think you have the right to ENCOURAGE people to abuse the powers. Any statement towards that JoeKim?
are you kidding me? did you ever notice my iCCup profile? "afk 24/7" or "i play once a week"? for starters, guess what? i have a busy life during the week, or else i'd be Streaming League of Legends for 10+ hours daily and posting blogs about girls named Molly. another thing, it's called Facebook Mobile so if you're referring to the vTv FB Chat i never gotten it, especially since i'm removed and it's set as private. there is no betrayal, because there's no intention of backstabbing or hurting vTv involved. you can already tell who has more pride in vTv in this blog alone. basics such as my signature and your screenshots with vTv's Team Page set as my status. you have the audacity to say that i would try to hurt something i've worked my ass off for? i know you have your dumbass moments but jesus christ, find the damn logic there.
and i am not dodging your question of abuse. you're just tugging for redundancy if anything. i never cited that i encourage abuse. i pointed out flaws and took matters into my own hands. if i was an Admin, it would have been acceptable. however i was not, so i was punished.
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However, my heart was still with iCCupCL. iCCup.Supreme was completely oblivious to the whole thing. He went from baby steps to a man under my guidance. I had to teach him from The Basics to How to handle playoffs. For those of the teams that were in the playoffs (LRM, Nb, FR, iFU) you guys probably didn't know that Supreme wasn't going to show up. Which was the reason why I was there moderating until I grabbed Supreme to come online. iCCupCL was pretty much going to be entirely handled through Forums. If you are an experienced CL player, you know that that would be fucking ridiculous. Therefore, I clenched my teeth and smurfed as Supreme just to help out again. i definately agree with this, he taught me everything he knew and as a CL Admin he guided me every single steps. and i'm really disappointed these incident happened
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On June 04 2011 07:43 Game wrote: I really wonder which will happen first, A) Nina, Geckoxp, cheloman, or Messer comes in to give their view of the world from when they look down at it B) A teamliquid MOD will shut this down to prevent drama - since they shut down iCCup's rant within a day (IntoTheWow)
With that said, I think this one has more basis for being a "blog" than iCCup's blog persay, and could get much better results even though it has a very similar premise. Actually... that's only in theory, enough people dislike JoeKim to derail this quickly.
Also Funnytoss, I agree. iCCup is great for people who have no vested interest in the actions of the staff, which is actually like 70% of the server, so under that philosophy, iCCup is great.
I apologize, I was busy today. I don't look down at the world, though. I just wish you'd stop with this vendetta against iCCup, but you seem unwilling to do so. When I became Super Admin, I even reached out to you to help you out on a couple different occasions. But not even days later, you decided to ban me from Sayle's stream chat for nothing.
Do I agree with everything Messer does? Hell no. I just do my job in my section the best that I can. I'm sorry if I'm not being arrogant enough for you to go "AHA, YOU ALL ARE MEGALOMANIACS" but that's just the truth. I don't care for Joekim's attitude personally, because he almost always condescending to the admins in the admin channel, but that's moot. There's no rule against bad attitudes, but I never thought Joekim would do something like this. Honestly, I couldn't believe he would do something so abusive out of spite, and then on top of that, try to justify it by saying that "Messer is the most abusive admin ever". At least he could have the class to say something more along the lines of "I apologize for what I did wrong on my end, but screw Messer" and at least there would be an apology.
But no, he abused, and it was wrong and he's not sorry, end of story.
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On June 04 2011 09:44 JoeKim wrote:Jeremy, [AoV] was banned for have 2 forfeits. if anyone just "asked" it would be an abrupt "no." i was more lenient with your team, stating that i will uplift the ban in 1 or 2 seasons but changed my mind after our conversation. Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 09:44 ICCup.Tesla wrote: Saying the logs or claiming that things have happened doesnt prove favoritism. Unless you have CLEAR proof you should stop saying that. Further more you kept msging me about it and pestering me about getting a bot setup for the team cause you couldnt keep running it. I told you the situation my pc is in but I would try anyhow and it took how many days for me to get hold of you once I had my own bot back up and running?
Further more if it were that easy for members to get hold of you - why is it that hours after the situation you still hadnt responded in the facebook chat but you had been posting stuff on the front of your facebook? Clearly some of the members feel betrayed by you. You still have YET to answer why it is that you can get away with accusing others of abusing admin power and then you think you have the right to ENCOURAGE people to abuse the powers. Any statement towards that JoeKim? are you kidding me? did you ever notice my iCCup profile? "afk 24/7" or "i play once a week"? for starters, guess what? i have a busy life during the week, or else i'd be Streaming League of Legends for 10+ hours daily and posting blogs about girls named Molly. another thing, it's called Facebook Mobile so if you're referring to the vTv FB Chat i never gotten it, especially since i'm removed and it's set as private. there is no betrayal, because there's no intention of backstabbing or hurting vTv involved. you can already tell who has more pride in vTv in this blog alone. basics such as my signature and your screenshots with vTv's Team Page set as my status. you have the audacity to say that i would try to hurt something i've worked my ass off for? i know you have your dumbass moments but jesus christ, find the damn logic there. and i am not dodging your question of abuse. you're just tugging for redundancy if anything. i never cited that i encourage abuse. i pointed out flaws and took matters into my own hands. if i was an Admin, it would have been acceptable. however i was not, so i was punished.
Did I ever notice your ICCup Profile? Let me see - No cause I had more important things to do. We all have busy lives or situations. Further more I don't stream League of Legends for 10+ hours - if you check the stream out you will noticed that is the auto pilot. As for posting blogs it was something that needed to be posted. Since when do you care more about my personal life then you care about your own? How about you focus on the fact you are trying to point blame on others by picking at small things when it is you here, who is at fault. If you WERE on facebook mobile you had time to read the group and post then. You had hours. Only hours after everything happened did I remove your nicks from vTv and remove you from the facebook group. Also I am sure you get the emails about the notifications - If you cared that much to always keep up on what was going on in the group, so you would have received emails based on that. Tell me, did you ever explain to the concerned member why you would do that ? He seemed pretty mad you did something stupid like that. The team mates were fine with working their way up the ladder, but that wasn't good enough for you. As for who has pride, its easy for anyone to post about pride and how proud they are of stuff. Its easy to put time into a project and then say how full of pride you are, but tell me..if you were so proud of vTv why did you try to take matters into your own hands? Why didn't you remain proud of the team and just let them work the way up the ladder, same as other teams have done..To TRULY prove how kick ass they are! Why wasn't that good enough for you? Seemed good enough for the members. Yes, I have the audacity to say you did more harm then good. I have the audacity to say you CLEARLY asked for favoritism out of an admin and basically ENCOURAGED them to abuse their powers, so you could get that spot. Asking them to show favoritism is encouraging rule breaking and that is what you did.
On June 04 2011 07:15 JoeKim wrote: EDIT: One of many logs...
Conversation with yello-ant@hotmail.com at 7/7/2010 2:05:56 PM on j0ekim@hotmail.com (msn) (2:05:56 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: hey (2:06:21 PM) Joe Kim: hey (2:06:35 PM) Joe Kim: i figured out all the replacements (2:06:40 PM) Joe Kim: so it will be the last time (2:06:42 PM) Joe Kim: for this season (2:06:52 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: thats nice, but we have major issue with the maps (2:06:56 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: and we need your help (2:07:08 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: did you check my PM? (2:08:05 PM) Joe Kim: yeah (2:08:10 PM) Joe Kim: but i dont understand it (2:08:14 PM) Joe Kim: i never dealt with maps (2:08:30 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: can you please check the mapdori site if they have there new protector or unprotector (2:08:33 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: for the maps (2:08:40 PM) Joe Kim: is it in korean? (2:08:43 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: yes (2:08:43 PM) Joe Kim: i'm not fluent (2:08:53 PM) Joe Kim: you can't get a hold of Mai-K? (2:10:14 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: ill PM Mai-K then (2:10:16 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: thanks (2:14:04 PM) Joe Kim: would you be able to help me out with the clan league replacements? or are you busy (2:14:44 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: gimme the list ill make a not to the dev crew (2:14:51 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: with the clan links please (2:14:52 PM) Joe Kim: ok (2:14:56 PM) Joe Kim: clan names better? links? IDs? (2:15:06 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: full link to the clan page (2:15:11 PM) iCCup.YelloAnt: clan name and clan link (2:15:23 PM) Joe Kim: ok, that'll take me 2 min (2:21:10 PM) Joe Kim: Division A: 7even -> aFF]
Division B1: sO -> gNs.I
Division B2: Ghost -> JST- ZZZ -> sas. imba. -> ash.
That log alone shows you went above the head admin and the super admins - This is a direct violation of ICCup rules. There is a chain of command in place for a reason. Why do you feel you are special and you should get special treatment and you can just go to the project direct to fix whatever you want, the way you want it?
On June 04 2011 09:04 JoeKim wrote:Show nested quote +Conversation with iCCup.Supreme on 5/30/2011 7:20:55 PM (7:20:55 PM) iCCup.Supreme: yeah joe (7:20:56 PM) iCCup.Supreme: im here (7:21:36 PM) Joe: could you PM yelloAnt as well as CL SA that vTv was promised to replace any Teams that drop out in the higher Dvisions? (7:22:12 PM) iCCup.Supreme: k i will (7:22:18 PM) Joe: thanks
Are you not trying to encourage something from 2010? You are trying to force your team into that spot, screw the other teams that may have been waiting longer. Hmm..Sure looks like you "didn't" want to encourage any abuse, right?
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On June 04 2011 08:43 SnowFantasy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 08:34 Boblion wrote:On June 04 2011 08:30 SnowFantasy wrote: Honestly, I don't understand why this shit is on teamliquid. ICCup business should be posted on iccup imo. Maybe I only see it this way because personally, I don't really care. Well he is banned from Iccup and since it is related to foreign bw i don't understand why it shouldn't be posted on TL. Also if you don't care why are you posting lol. Why not post everything from ICCup BW on teamliquid? Announce the motw changes on teamliquid. Announce the ladder rule changes on teamliquid. Observer over turret bug was made illegal again. Lets post the ladder results from last season on ICCup too. I mean it makes sense. They are related to foreign bw. Why shouldn't these things be posted on teamliquid? Being banned from ICCup doesn't mean this should be posted on teamliquid instead. -_- thought iccup and TL was related to each others
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On June 04 2011 10:10 Supremacy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 08:43 SnowFantasy wrote:On June 04 2011 08:34 Boblion wrote:On June 04 2011 08:30 SnowFantasy wrote: Honestly, I don't understand why this shit is on teamliquid. ICCup business should be posted on iccup imo. Maybe I only see it this way because personally, I don't really care. Well he is banned from Iccup and since it is related to foreign bw i don't understand why it shouldn't be posted on TL. Also if you don't care why are you posting lol. Why not post everything from ICCup BW on teamliquid? Announce the motw changes on teamliquid. Announce the ladder rule changes on teamliquid. Observer over turret bug was made illegal again. Lets post the ladder results from last season on ICCup too. I mean it makes sense. They are related to foreign bw. Why shouldn't these things be posted on teamliquid? Being banned from ICCup doesn't mean this should be posted on teamliquid instead. -_- thought iccup and TL was related to each others
And? Not everything on or about iccup needs to be posted on tl. There isn't a whole lot of discussion value for people not directly involved. There are only like 2-3 people really talking about this. It is basically blogs section being used as a chat room/MSN Messenger.
Anyway, looks like mods disagree. Good luck getting your issues resolved guys. I'm done. :d
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@ ninazerg, thanks for the mild-tempered post. i was expecting more flavor
who should i be apologizing to? the community? to iCCup? to Admins? the only individuals affected by my actions was my team, who i'm on Skype with. they had no involvement with what i did and the only hassle they encountered was rejoining the old vTv Team Page. it's 90% korean, so they are apathetic to forums and drama that they do not want to waste their time bothering with.
@ tesla, you seriously have email notifications to the FB Groups you're in? cuz i don't.
if you were active in the Clan League scene, you would know that the CL Admins are not fulfilling their duties as well as changing up the rules and ignoring PMs from team leaders. you would also know that iCCup.Clay was the CL SA but went IA. then in addition to that, you would notice Messer stepping in and lolligagging as usual.
i went through the chain of command but couldn't get ahold of Clay nor Supreme when i had YelloAnt in my grasp. he needed their approval to grant the requested promise. not all Teams have went from Division C to Division A. many teams were seeded and replaced before seasons started and also during mid-seasons. many banned teams were also let back into CL under "favoritism." prolonging the replacment process means that vTv would have to schedule more clan wars outside of the standard date/time. something you would have no idea on the level of difficulty. setting up 4 played weeks of CL is undesirable enough, catch the drift? and if you didn't notice, your buddy Gecko perma-banned LRM)Voltron for simply posting what i wrote here in the CL Forums as my Farewell Letter.
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On June 04 2011 10:29 JoeKim wrote:@ ninazerg, thanks for the mild-tempered post. i was expecting more flavor who should i be apologizing to? the community? to iCCup? to Admins? the only individuals affected by my actions was my team, who i'm on Skype with. they had no involvement with what i did and the only hassle they encountered was rejoining the old vTv Team Page. it's 90% korean, so they are apathetic to forums and drama that they do not want to waste their time bothering with. @ tesla, you seriously have email notifications to the FB Groups you're in? cuz i don't. if you were active in the Clan League scene, you would know that the CL Admins are not fulfilling their duties as well as changing up the rules and ignoring PMs from team leaders. you would also know that iCCup.Clay was the CL SA but went IA. then in addition to that, you would notice Messer stepping in and lolligagging as usual. i went through the chain of command but couldn't get ahold of Clay nor Supreme when i had YelloAnt in my grasp. he needed their approval to grant the requested promise. not all Teams have went from Division C to Division A. many teams were seeded and replaced before seasons started and also during mid-seasons. many banned teams were also let back into CL under "favoritism." prolonging the replacment process means that vTv would have to schedule more clan wars outside of the standard date/time. something you would have no idea on the level of difficulty. setting up 4 played weeks of CL is undesirable enough, catch the drift? and if you didn't notice, your buddy Gecko perma-banned LRM)Voltron for simply posting what i wrote here in the CL Forums as my Farewell Letter.
I get emails for EVERYTHING. I prefer it that way. It is not my fault you don't or choose not to. As for being active in the CL scene why would I be? I thought you were able to be trusted with that and following things by the book. You want to say messer isnt doing his job, you know whats funny... Gecko and Messer were both there when all this happened, you say they were doing their job... However I did get an answer within 24 hours from both of them. Messer actually cleared up this situation, gave us an exceptions to the Red X rule as well as set us all back up for CL and such. So you want to say how he's not doing job, how is that not doing it? Sure seems like he is doing alot more than causing drama and problems like you are. As for Gecko, we are not buddies. Gecko and I talk only as needed. So do not think I am friends with him. Same as he is not friends with me. However, I will NOT stand by and let someone falsely accuse others of abuse or anything else that they did not do. Especially when the person accusing them is the person who was caught abusing/breaking rules.
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@ Joekim
If you feel you've done nothing wrong, then there's no need to apologize. If I were in the same position, and I had just abused, I would apologize to my team, and to the broodwar community, saying something like "I know abusing is wrong, and I should never have done such a thing."
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May I answer to valid points only instead of to some lies? If yes, I've finished.
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why are you people taking the drama to TL again and again ? you're not opening up things for discussion, just bashing on each other with an audience.
there's no winners in your argument, and all you're doing is hurting your image and that of what's left of the western bw scene implicitly.
you look like mIRC generation kids arguing over your super admin powers on the internet, now i know the scene and the many hours of work you put in are of great significance to you (i know very well how that goes), and that's respected by the fans and players without you needing to get gratification from others accepting that "the other guy sucks and ruined my vision etc", so please, reality check time.
- e: spelling
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On June 04 2011 23:47 anatem wrote: why are you people taking the drama to TL again and again ? you're not opening up things for discussion, just bashing on each other with an audience.
there's no winners in your argument, and all you're doing is hurting your image and that of what's left of the western bw scene implicitly.
you look like mIRC generation kids arguing over your super admin powers on the internet, now i know the scene and the many hours of work you put in are of great significance to you (i know very well how that goes), and that's respected by the fans and players without you needing to get gratification from others accepting that "the other guy sucks and ruined my vision etc", so please, reality check time.
- e: spelling
Absolutely agree!
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Why not we just all be friends? :/
Like Game said 70% (which I believe, is too small, I say it's more around 90%) of the server enjoys what's going on.
Just like SnowFantasy (yeah, backing you up! <3) said, we enjoy the streams, the people, and most importantly the game, not the strange out of place drama that comes with it.
I feel like both sides have wronged another in some way, and there needs to be a consensus that yes, one person abused, but on the other hand, there seemed to be a mismanagement in the chain of command that resulted in said abuse.
Why not fix problems on both sides to avoid the issue? If both sides can admit that there was something that was CLEARLY wrong with something that they did, then that's all they need to work out a comprehensible solution.
-___-x <---- My unhappy face. I think I'm going to stream now to resolve that.
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Netherlands19123 Posts
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