Newbies can't deal with a ton of shit which is exactly why they are newbies.
New tactic in HotS: Terran Shredder Drops ?? - Page 4
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pezit
Sweden302 Posts
Newbies can't deal with a ton of shit which is exactly why they are newbies. | ||
ZorBa.G
Australia279 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:59 Gijian wrote: Perhaps Blizzard could just make it unable to siege up on Creep and I dont think it should hit air either, making it a viable option to use air to clean it out without hurting your unit to snipe it. If the Shredder couldn't attack air, it would be something that is completely useless in the game. Please tell me of a zerg who dosen't get mutas....... | ||
Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
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Gijian
United States273 Posts
On October 25 2011 17:03 ZorBa.G wrote: If the Shredder couldn't attack air, it would be something that is completely useless in the game. Please tell me of a zerg who dosen't get mutas....... How do you suppose to zone out muta? | ||
TheDraken
United States640 Posts
solves everything. | ||
Fishgle
United States2174 Posts
- structure = No longer able to be dropped, immediately solves that problem (terrans should go bio if they want to drop) - in TvT, makes marauders much weaker vs mech as opposed to going mech as well. MM will be even more about mobility and harass, rather than straight fights - increased ghost usage in TvT bio vs mech, if ghosts outrange shredders, their bonus against light will take them down instantly. Perhaps make it so EMP shuts them off? possibilities.... - in TvP, this will allow the new oracle to shut it down with its new ability, forcing micro akin to stasis or disruption web to break siege lines. imagine penix+oracles shutting down a huge siege+shredder defense, then pouring in with zealots and storms - in TvZ banelings have bonus against both structure and light, so burrowed (moving) banelings could take these out and allow lings to rush forward. Also forces more scans/turrets etc. Note: auto-turrets and nyduses are also considered "Structure Units," so it's not like we're breaking any rules. | ||
FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
I would never drop a shredder, but what i would do is run in shredders into multiple bases while i move forward with my main army, since you get the we are under attack message when its to late. (just like fungal or storm :p ) Anyway I will place a shredder in my mineral line and if the opponent attacks I'll slide my workers to the the patch that isn't covered and boom x3. You could say its the lurker of sc2 :3. Zerg got spidermines we got the lurker mwahaha. | ||
Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:58 Cyro wrote: Warp in units? ASSUMING your warpgates are off cooldown, warping in units takes 5 seconds. With ZERO reaction time and warpgates off cooldown, you would have 3 seconds to kill the shredder before your units were standing in a psi storm. I think protoss can deal with them easily due to stalkers outranging them, as can terrans with marines, but zerg is getting shafted hard. No offense, but if it takes you 8seconds to respond to a drop then you will get shafted in many more ways by Marauders, Marines and Lings than you will with Shredders. Speaking as a Protoss my self, I've had Nexus's killed in about the same period of time by Ling doom drops and Marauder stim hit and runs. Those kinds of tactics are generally accepted to be balanced in peoples eyes and half the time they not only clear out the Nexus but almost everything you warped in to defend it as well >_> But yeah, as someone else said about. If 8second deploy time is considered too much then what does that make Infestor IT spams, Baneling drops and Fungal Growth on workers? If you want to call the Shredder imbalanced then the three things I've just mentioned would have to be, by way of association, completely broken | ||
Gijian
United States273 Posts
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ZorBa.G
Australia279 Posts
On October 25 2011 17:07 Fishgle wrote: I think the shredder should be classified as "Mechanical Light Structure Unit" i'll explain why: - structure = No longer able to be dropped, immediately solves that problem (terrans should go bio if they want to drop) - in TvT, makes marauders much weaker vs mech as opposed to going mech as well. MM will be even more about mobility and harass, rather than straight fights - increased ghost usage in TvT bio vs mech, if ghosts outrange shredders, their bonus against light will take them down instantly. Perhaps make it so EMP shuts them off? possibilities.... - in TvP, this will allow the new oracle to shut it down with its new ability, forcing micro akin to stasis or disruption web to break siege lines. imagine penix+oracles shutting down a huge siege+shredder defense, then pouring in with zealots and storms - in TvZ banelings have bonus against both structure and light, so burrowed (moving) banelings could take these out and allow lings to rush forward. Also forces more scans/turrets etc. Note: auto-turrets and nyduses are also considered "Structure Units," so it's not like we're breaking any rules. lolwat! You want banelings to be buffed again? I don't even... | ||
HalcyonMusic
Australia16 Posts
Happy to be told otherwise. | ||
ShotgunMike
Sweden241 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:58 BobMcJohnson wrote: Shredders take 8 seconds to "siege up", plus the time it takes for the medivac to enter, drop them etc. i you don't react in all this time you DESERVE to lose your workers. True on higher leagues perhaps, but for us low-league players this will be a pain. Two medivacs with shredders, one drop at your ramp one at your main hatch. The Terran will just have to drop, deploy and pull the medivac back. Any player can pull that micro of, defending will be much more difficult. I guess that more experienced players might think that this is less of a problem but the effort required to employ this strategy is minimal (you don't even have to micro this thing) and defending will be more difficult. | ||
Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:36 Cyro wrote: Reaver was fine, but if you was lower apm than your opponent and/or reacted badly and/or didnt scout it could do a lot of harass based damage. I was being ironic | ||
Cyro
United Kingdom20157 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:58 GGPope wrote: It can't activate til the medivac leaves it alone, which means it's a guaranteed big investment because any attentive zerg will kill it if the medivac tries to pick it back up. You WILL lose the shredder, so you have to commit. A zerg that watches the minimap will pull their drones away, and the shredder cannot chase them. As far as dealing with the shredder once it actually gets up, that is probably the tricky part. It depends how much damage it does, but I can imagine it being pretty tough. Overall I don't think it will be too hard to balance, and I don't imagine terrans doing it very often simply because you're almost guaranteed to lose the thing. A shredder will kill full HP roaches in 3.6 to 4.32 seconds, depending on the pulse timing relative to when the roaches enter the field. Roaches are durable as hell, and i hope to god that zergs dont send ANYTHING into those fields, at those damage levels you just cant do it unless the shredder has like 40hp or something. | ||
Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On October 25 2011 17:07 Fishgle wrote: I think the shredder should be classified as "Mechanical Light Structure Unit" i'll explain why: - structure = No longer able to be dropped, immediately solves that problem (terrans should go bio if they want to drop) - in TvT, makes marauders much weaker vs mech as opposed to going mech as well. MM will be even more about mobility and harass, rather than straight fights - increased ghost usage in TvT bio vs mech, if ghosts outrange shredders, their bonus against light will take them down instantly. Perhaps make it so EMP shuts them off? possibilities.... - in TvP, this will allow the new oracle to shut it down with its new ability, forcing micro akin to stasis or disruption web to break siege lines. imagine penix+oracles shutting down a huge siege+shredder defense, then pouring in with zealots and storms - in TvZ banelings have bonus against both structure and light, so burrowed (moving) banelings could take these out and allow lings to rush forward. Also forces more scans/turrets etc. Note: auto-turrets and nyduses are also considered "Structure Units," so it's not like we're breaking any rules. It will let terran overmax if it was a structure. | ||
Fishgle
United States2174 Posts
On October 25 2011 17:10 ZorBa.G wrote: lolwat! You want banelings to be buffed again? I don't even... ? i'm not proposing that banelings get buffed. they already have bonus vs structures and light units and will have burrow movement come HotS. I'm just showing that banes will be cost effective ways of dealing with shredders, albeit at tier 3. | ||
SpinmovE
Canada119 Posts
1. You can set up a couple shredders at entrances to your base and you will be completely immune to a ling run by. 2. Their potential in a slow push is frightening. Imagine a Terran slow push that had a few well placed shredders in front of it and behind it against Zerg. The zerg would not be able to use lings and banelings at all with its current dps, they would melt before they even made it through the shredder AoE let alone tank/marine shots. Plus a few shredders behind your push can make you virtually immune to flanks. 3. Positioning shredders at the top of ramps where zergs are likely to run lings without vision. You instantly slaughter their entire ling army if they stop looking for less than a second with its current dps. 4. I'm not sure on this one, but if battle hellions are no longer treated as a light unit when they transform Zergs ability to deal with hellions will plummet via banelings like no ones business. | ||
Fishgle
United States2174 Posts
On October 25 2011 17:14 Eppa! wrote: It will let terran overmax if it was a structure. Spider mines didn't cost supply. But i'm not proposing they don't cost supply. wait. this is interesting... 1. make them cost 0 supply but you can't move them once placed 2. cost supply and mobile i'm pushing towards option 2. a light structure unit that costs supply, built at factory | ||
Cyro
United Kingdom20157 Posts
On October 25 2011 17:14 Eppa! wrote: It will let terran overmax if it was a structure. I dont mean to balance whine but: You want to make ghosts good against TERRAN too? No offense there, but ghost mech is currently DESTROYING the bests zergs in the world, and it is common knowledge that EMP is borderline broken vs protoss if not already there in a lot of situations. TLO plays mech really well at ~40 grandmaster and uses ghosts for nukes a lot for positional reasons, if they disabled a core unit with EMP, too.... Also in GSL finals, MMA played bio vs MVP's mech every game and used nukes to force unsieges atleast once, winning 4-1 | ||
MajorityofOne
Canada2506 Posts
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