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The subject of this thread is not a license to roll out your inaccurate, misinformed, poorly conceived, tired, and downright offensive theories about race relations. |
On March 09 2012 10:29 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:20 VanGarde wrote: Really? I have one problem with this discussion and it is that racism is dragged into it.
The words means nothing it is bm and that is all that is relevant to discuss, if you want to discuss whether or not a caster should bad manner on stream and on ladder that is one thing. Surely everyone is aware that orb tends to bm.
But I find it terribly overzealous how people jump on certain words. People who are angry and bm use different words that can be taboo, powerful or generally disliked. It is the point of using words in that way. Someone using nigger to curse at someone does not mean that they are actually a racist, someone using the word faggot to bm someone is not necessarily anti gay any less than someone who uses cunt to curse thinks that vaginas are something to be avoided.
Sure, debate whether or not orb should bm but just get over the bullshit about different words because it does not mean anything, guess what, my brother and a close friend of mine are homosexual and I use faggot when I curse, even around them. It does not mean anything in a context like this. If words mean nothing then your post means nothing.
The context of words means something. The fact that people can't see a difference between "That retard faggot cannon rushed me eleven times in a row" and "I hate how the fucking faggots can still get married in some states" is the problem.
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On March 09 2012 10:29 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:25 Chessz wrote:On March 09 2012 10:17 Serpico wrote:On March 09 2012 10:15 Chessz wrote: Honestly, I think the responses to this thread are revealing as to how much people actually care about race issues and racism still at large, and how white/privileged (or even male/heteronormative regarding "fag") our particular community is. Not saying that orb is a racist, just i understand that he's indoctrinated by the culture he comes from to think these things are okay or not a big deal, and half of the posters here suffer from the same ignorance.
If you honestly deep-down turn the other cheek to uses of these words in ways that are meant to be inflammatory and derogatory or think it's not a big deal because "people say it on the internet all the time" and you don't see how it's a problem that someone who represents the SC2 community is saying these things, please never talk to me until you can broaden your perspective and educate yourself.
You can go ahead and attack my high horse but at least it's a progressive, tolerant one. In the meantime, lets never hang out
Yeah...you're trying too hard to make this more than it is. But keep bringing the sociology 101 garbage into this. Your incrededible arrogance is pretty apparent though, but at least you can hide behind "Crusader of justice against racists" as your shield to hide you from all attacks. The reality is he said something bad and should apologize. Other than that, punishment is up to EG and isn't our business because it's something only they can control. I'm not hiding from attacks. I just don't tolerate racial slurs or associate with people who use them. I've never watched orb's stream and quickly turned off Destiny's, especially when he went on his whole embarrassing language rant. and I agree with you that he should apologize, and that it's EG's business. And this isn't "sociology 101 garbage," as if that garbage was any less connected to the "reality" you assert is actually happening. We can be mature right? If not being another immature white gaming nerd with reckless language makes me arrogant fine. If trying to be actively anti-racist/racism instead of just going on another day of saying, "no i'm not racist. things are ok!" then yes I'm arrogant. Arrogant and really fucking proud. Again, you're propping yourself up to be more than you think you are. You act like this has some kind of societal consequence or there's some bigger picture here to look at when there isnt. You're blowing something up that really is about someone saying something cruel when they were raging. You're about 10 levels too high strung about all of this. He made a mistake and should apologize, like everyone is saying. This has nothing to do with being racist as much as it does with being immature.
I agree stopping one white guy from using a racist word won't solve the problem, but honestly I'm not even an authority because I am not a target of his slurs. I'm pretty white. However racism and racial discrimination still happens on a daily basis in urban development, jerrymandering, linguistic profiling, etc..
"you act like this has some kind of societal consequence or there's some bigger picture here to look at when there isnt."
Except that what EG DOES do sets a larger precedent that I would say is "societal consequence," I know it's just a kid raging online, but if it wasn't a big deal, why has this thread blown up and topics on reddit blown up? You really think people have it out for orb or something? Another person said I'm still stuck on this "racist slurs = racism bullshit," I really don't think I am, as much as the use of those words in a derogatory way strengthens our cultural narratives surrounding the history of the word so long as their meaning relies on oppression between two groups or the deficiency of one. That constitutes actual harm, and that's what I care about, I'm not offended.
What does more harm: thinking racist thoughts and actually being racist, or using racist words even though you're not? (ps. the context for using those words was public and you're also a prominent community member)
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My 2 cents is that it really doesn't matter. Just because he uses the word "nigger" doesn't make the BM racist, nor does BM using the word "faggot" make the BM homophobic. These words have become such prevalent generic insults in our popular culture that when used in that context, it's silly to consider them in any way related to their original meanings. The South Park episode concerning the word "fag" argues my point quite well, and you could make a similar argument for "nigger" at this point.
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On March 09 2012 10:35 TheBlueMeaner wrote: And its really funny how everyone keeps bringing Idra out, he is bad mannered at times, but I have never heard of him using racial slurs to insult his opponents... yeah, he just calls them bad at sc2 xp
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On March 09 2012 10:17 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:11 Xcobidoo wrote:On March 09 2012 10:01 Mikey wrote: Hi, If you recall the old IdrA rage from early sc2 and when he started streaming he was quite similar to this (Maybe not as far as using the word 'nigger') but he did use faggot, and fuck you, and bitch, and a lot of other foul or derogatory terms. If they let Greg slide, they should give orb a chance as well.
Just my opinion. The difference here is Orb is paid to talk and IdrA is paid to play. If you only hate the fact that IdrA is bm then you can still just watch him play and forget about the other stuff, Orb doesn't have that luxury. To put this in perspective, lots of people want Moletrap gone from GOM because he has a bit of a nasal voice and he sometimes screams when there's a big battle. They want him gone because they don't like the way he gets fucking excited? That to me is ridiculous. There are also probably a lot of people who want Moletrap gone for having a nasal voice that want Orb to stay even though he behaved this way, funny how that works out... Orb is paid to cast and act professional while he does so, which he's great at. This was from BEFORE he worked with EG. Not only that, it wasn't while he was casting at all. With your view on things, you could just say "If you only hate the fact that Orb is bm, you can still watch his casts and forget about the other stuff" which is actually easier than what you're saying to do with IdrA, as Orb doesn't BM while casting, but IdrA does BM while playing. Stop being so hypocritical community.
When you're independent and a relative nobody you can call every swinging dick on the internet whatever you like and no one will care. However, I think you and a lot of other people fail to understand that Monster Energy, Kingston HyperX, Steelseries, and every other major corporation sponsoring EG won't give two shits about the timeline or circumstances when the headline comes out and says they are giving money to support a team/individual who refers to people as "niggers." Whether its right or wrong is absolutely irrelevant in this circumstance because the only thing that matters is the court of public opinion.
I don't care if Orb wants to stream and throw racial slurs around at people when he loses, and I don't feel any emotion about this latest event either. My common sense tells me though that when you step into the spotlight and represent major corporations the game changes.
You can't run around screaming "nigger" all night and expect to be a spokesperson for Nike 8-5 the next day and claim "but I'm professional when I'm on the clock." It just doesn't work that way.
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This is such a joke, that his private playing experience on ladder is fucking around with his career.
While I agree he shouldn't of used the n-word, people have made bigger mistakes and as long as he stops from this point forward I don't think he should be punished harshly.
Live and Learn IMO.
People need to grow up and stop bringing the pitch forks, some sad people in this forum...
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On March 09 2012 09:46 Heaton31 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:43 Dfgj wrote:On March 09 2012 09:40 sereniity wrote:On March 09 2012 09:39 Dfgj wrote:On March 09 2012 09:35 Takezou wrote:On March 09 2012 09:32 Dfgj wrote: Ladder BM is news now? Ladder BM isn't. However, being stupid enough to use racist words (even if his intent wasn't racist) when he is supposedly a professional caster can be. Then add to it that he lied about it and used other professionals in his community to try and excuse his behavior makes it worse. Was he doing it under his tag or in a professional casting role? Being a dick isn't a reason for this circus of a thread. He was not working while doing this, he was under his personal tag doing ladder. My point exactly. If he did it in an official cast, I'd care, but a lot of people are dicks online. Why anyone should gleefully document it and try to get attention for it is beyond me. Irrelevant. Past actions don't hurt you for future jobs, really? Sweet.
Interesting; I didn't know I had to include my Starcraft 2 ladder experiences on my resume.
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On March 09 2012 06:16 pt wrote: its just racist comments dawg... its only a big deal because other people make it a big deal.
Makes me glad, I think that kind of language we're discussing is deplorable, insulting, and offensive. Beyond that, this kind of "typical" BM just affirms to every decent, thinking adult that the video game community is a haven for childish people who think nothing you say or do matters unless someone "makes it a big deal", and as such will say whatever mean thing they can think of because inside that's just who they are.
While I don't like slander and bandwagoning, I'm really tired of the carte-blanche attitude some people take towards civility, just because it's on the internet. You write someone a hand-written letter calling them racist and homophobic slurs, it's practically a hate crime. You say it in public, and people might call you a pig for the rest of your life. But on the internet, "it's only a big deal because other people make it a big deal".
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On March 09 2012 10:35 TheBlueMeaner wrote: And its really funny how everyone keeps bringing Idra out, he is bad mannered at times, but I have never heard of him using racial slurs to insult his opponents...
He hates every race besides zerg.
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On March 09 2012 10:19 Esk23 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:15 Chessz wrote: Honestly, I think the responses to this thread are revealing as to how much people actually care about race issues and racism still at large, and how white/privileged (or even male/heteronormative regarding "fag") our particular community is. Not saying that orb is a racist, just i understand that he's indoctrinated by the culture he comes from to think these things are okay or not a big deal, and half of the posters here suffer from the same ignorance.
If you honestly deep-down turn the other cheek to uses of these words in ways that are meant to be inflammatory and derogatory or think it's not a big deal because "people say it on the internet all the time" and you don't see how it's a problem that someone who represents the SC2 community is saying these things, please never talk to me until you can broaden your perspective and educate yourself.
You can go ahead and attack my high horse but at least it's a progressive, tolerant one. In the meantime, lets never hang out
This post is itself racist. Funny how the people who go crazy against racism are typically racist themselves.
Not sure if serious? I'll take the troll bait, please enlighten me, how is this racist?
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As a black person... I'm not surprised. People will continue to use the "N-word" without even thinking about how bad the word really means. It's just as bad as calling someone the "F-word". Why can't people just stop with all of the ridiculous name calling.
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On March 09 2012 10:35 VanGarde wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:29 Dental Floss wrote:On March 09 2012 10:20 VanGarde wrote: Really? I have one problem with this discussion and it is that racism is dragged into it.
The words means nothing it is bm and that is all that is relevant to discuss, if you want to discuss whether or not a caster should bad manner on stream and on ladder that is one thing. Surely everyone is aware that orb tends to bm.
But I find it terribly overzealous how people jump on certain words. People who are angry and bm use different words that can be taboo, powerful or generally disliked. It is the point of using words in that way. Someone using nigger to curse at someone does not mean that they are actually a racist, someone using the word faggot to bm someone is not necessarily anti gay any less than someone who uses cunt to curse thinks that vaginas are something to be avoided.
Sure, debate whether or not orb should bm but just get over the bullshit about different words because it does not mean anything, guess what, my brother and a close friend of mine are homosexual and I use faggot when I curse, even around them. It does not mean anything in a context like this. If words mean nothing then your post means nothing. The context of words means something. The fact that people can't see a difference between "That retard faggot cannon rushed me eleven times in a row" and "I hate how the fucking faggots can still get married in some states" is the problem.
Hmm, thats a really good point. I hadn't thought of that. Man, it'd be crazy if there was a context where black people have been oppressed, murdered, and enslaved for hundreds of years by brutal imperialists. You'd sure look like a heel calling people "dumb niggers" if that were the case.
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On March 09 2012 10:36 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:35 TheBlueMeaner wrote: And its really funny how everyone keeps bringing Idra out, he is bad mannered at times, but I have never heard of him using racial slurs to insult his opponents... yeah, he just calls them bad at sc2 xp
That is because when IdrA calls someone a retard people actually realize that he is not actually having something personally against people who suffer from some kind of mental disability.
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On March 09 2012 10:37 Arcanne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:35 TheBlueMeaner wrote: And its really funny how everyone keeps bringing Idra out, he is bad mannered at times, but I have never heard of him using racial slurs to insult his opponents... He hates every race besides zerg.
Sounds like racism to me.
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i dont understand how people didn't take katu's side after what he did, but people are taking orb's side after his terrible racist comments, and his lies?
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Edit: Nevermind. I don't want to contribute to this.
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On March 09 2012 10:35 TheBlueMeaner wrote: And its really funny how everyone keeps bringing Idra out, he is bad mannered at times, but I have never heard of him using racial slurs to insult his opponents... Yeah, just slurs against gays. But that's ok, because homosexuality isn't a race amirite?
It's a complete double-standard that's both sad and utterly hilarious at the same time.
Everybody's a little bit racist. We're hardwired for it. The degree to which you let that racism grow impact your life is the important piece of it.
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On March 09 2012 10:39 WhitePower wrote: i dont understand how people didn't take katu's side after what he did, but people are taking orb's side after his terrible racist comments, and his lies?
LOL, nice username.
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On March 09 2012 10:37 Arcanne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:35 TheBlueMeaner wrote: And its really funny how everyone keeps bringing Idra out, he is bad mannered at times, but I have never heard of him using racial slurs to insult his opponents... He hates every race besides zerg.
IdrA's mellowed out a lot since joining EG though. He has his moments, but I haven't heard him use racial slurs. And his rage is actually kind of creative .
Anyway, I hope Orb gets a chance to mellow out now that he has 'a real job'. Although lying to your employer isn't a good start.
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On March 09 2012 09:32 Dfgj wrote:
Interesting; I didn't know I had to include my Starcraft 2 ladder experiences on my resume.
I think you have to if you are applying for a casting job for the specific game. For example, who's going to hire a guy to cast a big fotboll game if he have no experiance with it?
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