|
The subject of this thread is not a license to roll out your inaccurate, misinformed, poorly conceived, tired, and downright offensive theories about race relations. |
The amount of rage and hate in this community is frightening sometimes.
Leave the guy alone and let the people that actually are involved in this deal with it.
I also think the lying (if he is) is alot worse then nerdraging in a ladder game, saying stuff like "nigger" in a heated moment does in no way make one a racist.
Just calm down damn it!
|
On March 09 2012 11:01 CygNus X-1 wrote: I wonder how EG Masters cup chat is going to be tonight ....
Yeah, i was just thinking about what it meant for EGMC. I guess we'll find out soon.
|
On March 09 2012 10:55 Dental Floss wrote:Peope in this thread for real think racism doesn't exist in America. I found that study http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873Black names 50% less likely to get calls back on job applications than white names. Study straight from Harvard.
Well whether the thread, or specifically the ones who are making a big deal out of the racist, want to believe it or not - everyone is racist to a certain degree and there are no exceptions.
But there is a difference between being racist because of human nature and being evil, malicious, and defamatory. Orb definitely walks on the border line with his comments and should be punished. But I don't think hes an evil guy that wants to bring down black people. Given the context he just seems to be raging and made an idiotic decision in his way of expression.
|
On March 09 2012 10:58 chestnutcc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:29 mapleleafs791 wrote:On March 09 2012 09:07 Bayyne wrote:On March 09 2012 09:06 Orracle wrote: I don't watch his stream, nor do I like him, but I don't give a shit what some one says. Every other game on battle.net, regardless of win or lose, a person generally PMs me with something such as "ez u faget". This is no different. If you don't like his language, don't watch his stream, but making drama threads like this is uncalled for. No different than Jessica calling out Dragon publicly. Brother, you and I are in the small minority. I agree with you, but I think this is too late. This is the truth but Orb isnt some random guy anymore. Im black and while i am not offended to the point of raging i have lost some respect for him. 1. If you make racist jokes (which i do) you do them in private with people that actually know your not racist. 2. Calling someone a jew for being cheap or black for listing to hip hop a shitton is different than calling someone a stupid kike / fucking nigger when your pissed at them and are trying to be intentionally demeaning. That is inexcusable. 3. If you dont understand the context of black people using the n word around each other then get out. I NEVER use the n word and i dont like it, but a black person saying IS different from another race saying it for a reason. Trying to justify its use by saying i hear black comics and rap artists saying it is stupid. Iv heard white comics make black jokes and they were well received context and reputation matter ALOT. If he said "lol my friends so jewish he didnt pick up the tab" its poking fun at racial stereotypes in the right environment. If he said "fucking jewish piece of shit nigger strat" (which is pretty much what he did) its much different. As little as this actually offends me, reading the responses/rationale of people in this thread leads my to one conclusion. TL is full of young white kids that are either to immature to understand whats going on or people really take racism too lightly. I make gay/black/asian jokes and i dont think someone should be crucified for a private statement, but a gay/black/asian jokes (even if it is stereotype based) is much different than calling someone a fucking nigger/jew/faggot for no reason other than to demean/offend them. And when you represent the community shit like this doesn't fly. I still dont think he is racist but he has lost alot of my respect if he needs to resort to racial slurs every time he loses. It seems pretty immature. Destiny is the same for me and since i dont watch either of their streams i dont really care since i can ignore it. But he represents SC2 and EG so i do have a problem with it. TLDR: Race shit is always touchy, if you a public figure you cant EVER do it without expecting backlash so be careful. I dont think orb and destiny are racist but i dont have alot of respect for people that try to defend using racial/sexual slurs to crush someone spirits. Race jokes im ok with but calling someone a fucking (insert racial term) when your mad at them is ridiculous. Calling someone a jew for begin cheap is alot different than calling someone a piece of shit kike because your pissed at them. Additionally, sponsors care so you cant just run your mouth when your're attached to a company Edit: I think alot of people are overreacting, but alot of people are also under reacting Agreed. The lack of sensitivity is surprising. Point is not whether he's racist or not, its that using such a word against a stranger is not socially acceptable where he comes from. Can only agree with the conclusion that the majority of TL's population comprises of immature white boys. Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:07 Cel.erity wrote: I like how I jump in the FGC sexism thread, half of the posts are slamming the FGC saying that sexism is intolerable and the FGC is so bad, so uncivilized, FGC should take lessons from the SC2 scene etc. etc. Then I jump in this thread, and the majority of people are saying racist slurs are completely normal, business as usual. Stay classy, guys. This is a nice lesson for me of what our culture has come to. Agreed again. Remember seeing a lot of white knights there. Context is little different though. That was blatantly disgusting, this was blatantly inappropriate (since the targeted party does not seem to have taken public offense). Either way, people who empathize with the former must empathize with the latter. I don't get why you would think calling on an unknown person with racist terms is worse than calling on a person he knows. I won't get/feel insulted if you call me faggot and a nigga because I simply cannot relate myself to both since I am straight and I am yellow.
If you call me yellow ching chong king po chicken then I might feel somewhat insulted I guess (though personally I also find it a bit funny because the whole thing doesn't even make much sense)
|
On March 09 2012 11:03 cameler wrote: Well, I know one thing.
A white man can NOT use the N word in public.... anywhere... and doing it behind the safety of your computer monitor makes you look like a complete pussy, mr.orb.
This is the sign of a real weak minded person.
Thats racist.
|
Casters are hired (and paid quite well I understand) not just to actually cast the game, but because of their fan base, their ability to bring in the viewers. When tournaments are announced, who is casting is currently as important if no more important than who is playing. When your caster is detracting from the games, it's not a good sign for them.
I liked orb's casting, but this sort of behavior is childish and unacceptable.
I'm looking forward to hear what he has to say on the matter, but I can't really see how he can defend this.
|
On March 09 2012 10:55 VanGarde wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:48 Xcobidoo wrote:On March 09 2012 10:41 VanGarde wrote:On March 09 2012 10:38 Dental Floss wrote:On March 09 2012 10:35 VanGarde wrote:On March 09 2012 10:29 Dental Floss wrote:On March 09 2012 10:20 VanGarde wrote: Really? I have one problem with this discussion and it is that racism is dragged into it.
The words means nothing it is bm and that is all that is relevant to discuss, if you want to discuss whether or not a caster should bad manner on stream and on ladder that is one thing. Surely everyone is aware that orb tends to bm.
But I find it terribly overzealous how people jump on certain words. People who are angry and bm use different words that can be taboo, powerful or generally disliked. It is the point of using words in that way. Someone using nigger to curse at someone does not mean that they are actually a racist, someone using the word faggot to bm someone is not necessarily anti gay any less than someone who uses cunt to curse thinks that vaginas are something to be avoided.
Sure, debate whether or not orb should bm but just get over the bullshit about different words because it does not mean anything, guess what, my brother and a close friend of mine are homosexual and I use faggot when I curse, even around them. It does not mean anything in a context like this. If words mean nothing then your post means nothing. The context of words means something. The fact that people can't see a difference between "That retard faggot cannon rushed me eleven times in a row" and "I hate how the fucking faggots can still get married in some states" is the problem. Hmm, thats a really good point. I hadn't thought of that. Man, it'd be crazy if there was a context where black people have been oppressed, murdered, and enslaved for hundreds of years by brutal imperialists. You'd sure look like a heel calling people "dumb niggers" if that were the case. The problem with this reasoning is again the complete lack of balance. This shit only happens when people use the words nigger and fag, and in there lies the bias. When IdrA calls someone a retard no one stands up and say that this is offensive to mentally challenged people. When someone calls someone a cunt or a pussy there is no one who starts a thread about how this disrespects all women. The reason people don't do that is that even people who think that we should censor society to get rid of "bad" words that could offend people realize that if you push that line of reasoning to its limits you can barely use words at all because there is always someone who will be offended by something. If we're really going to rank insulting words here then there's a huge difference between the N-word, F-word and retard. In the recent centuries mentally challenged people were not enslaved and seen as animals whose only purpose was to serve another race. Regarding the F-word, homosexuals still don't have any rights whatsoever in many parts of the world while a lot of effort is being put into making the world a better place for disabled people wether it be mentally or physically. In that context (the world we live in) my friend, those words are unacceptable and should not be uttered. When, where and if the people hearing care is a totally different thing altogether. See it is when you start to try and rationalize which words are okay and not with social circumstance and even historical circumstance that it becomes evident how futile it is to do this. One could easily argue that women are one of the most oppressed groups in the world today, in large parts of the world women have little or no rights at all. Should not bitch or cunt be ranked higher on the list then? No because this list is arbitrary and a just a haphazard result of social interaction. But you are not going to reach me arguing over why certain words should "not be uttered" because I would have to ascribe to the belief that we should monitor and control language based on offensiveness. I don't believe that it matters in the slightest if a group has been oppressed historically. Saying nigger is inconsequential to this. If someone on the other hand goes out and argues that black people should be enslaved again, yeah then there you have something to be offended about. I actually find it dangerous that people can't draw distinctions between these two.
I also uphold the freedom of speech-- but I also uphold the freedom of the public to say "we don't like this public figure acting like a complete jackass". No one is saying orb should suffer any legal penalty lol. But the reputation of himself and EG is tarnished in the eyes of a lot of people by these comments. Are you saying there is nothing he could say that would make you disinclined to listen to his casts in the future? Personally I never found his casting style that entertaining or enlightening and this basically seals the deal for me (in terms of ignoring any content he would put forth).
|
On March 09 2012 11:00 NachiMe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:55 Xann wrote:On March 09 2012 10:49 Rorschach wrote:On March 09 2012 10:41 Xann wrote: i'm still waiting for orb's apology, the white man continues to spread their hatred and racism while black men such as myself are hurt despite the hundreds of years of brutality i've had to suffer. The white man should be ashamed how old are you? hundreds of years of brutality? And this persecution happened to you personally? What day and age are you living in? lol? Sorry but I won't let the white man sweep racism under the rug... actions have consequences, and orb should pay the consequences of his inflamatory remarks on my race. I'm asian and I really don't give a fuck about racism that happened to "my" race. And yes, there has been a lot of it. What's done is done, most people don't think like this now (or are trying to be politcally correct) so step down your horse. *you* did not suffer hundreds of years of brutality. Your ancestors did. Grow up. To be honest I would love to be black instead of asian because of all the affirmitive action that goes on here. Easy ivy league if I was black, hard ivy league if I was asian.
Wow you say you don't care about racism affecting your race, but yet you say "Easy Ivy League if I was black, and hard ivy league if I was Asian."
Really now?
As a black guy with a Korean wife I know she cares about racism affecting her. She still has a hard time trusting Japanese people because of what happened a LONG TIME AGO in the past. For example, the raping/pillaging of Korea and etc. So to say that it's stupid that people care about what happened in their past is kind of ignorant if you ask me...
|
List of things this whole fiasco is NOT actually about, which nobody really gives a fuck about:
1) whether or not orb is actually racist 2) how "offensive" it is to say racist words on a "personal" stream 3) how the semantics of the word has changed, or how other streamers/casters have used bad words
What this is about, why the community has had such a response:
1) race issues are still precedent in today's society and resonate with people. It's pretty clear language is still a very powerful tool 2) professionalism of our community members and their obligation to represent the community responsibly 3) How our gaming culture is evolving into something where our trash talking is more civilized and doesn't use racial or homophobic slurs to strengthen attacks. When a person in the public eye does it, it matters. Whether or not people agree with that (or should agree) is a big hurdle. 4) Ultimately, the recourse is EG's and EG's alone.
|
On March 09 2012 11:03 holycrapitsTony wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 11:00 NachiMe wrote:On March 09 2012 10:55 Xann wrote:On March 09 2012 10:49 Rorschach wrote:On March 09 2012 10:41 Xann wrote: i'm still waiting for orb's apology, the white man continues to spread their hatred and racism while black men such as myself are hurt despite the hundreds of years of brutality i've had to suffer. The white man should be ashamed how old are you? hundreds of years of brutality? And this persecution happened to you personally? What day and age are you living in? lol? Sorry but I won't let the white man sweep racism under the rug... actions have consequences, and orb should pay the consequences of his inflamatory remarks on my race. I'm asian and I really don't give a fuck about racism that happened to "my" race. And yes, there has been a lot of it. What's done is done, most people don't think like this now (or are trying to be politcally correct) so step down your horse. *you* did not suffer hundreds of years of brutality. Your ancestors did. Grow up. To be honest I would love to be black instead of asian because of all the affirmitive action that goes on here. Easy ivy league if I was black, hard ivy league if I was asian. Alert: An anonymous Asian man doesn't care about what happened to his ancestors, it's now okay to mock and insult all asians. I'll be sure to find a Jew that doesn't care about the Holocaust so that can be okay too.
Thank god somebody gets it...
|
On March 09 2012 10:59 eits wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:55 jnsjr wrote:On March 09 2012 10:51 eits wrote:On March 09 2012 10:41 Xann wrote: i'm still waiting for orb's apology, the white man continues to spread their hatred and racism while black men such as myself are hurt despite the hundreds of years of brutality i've had to suffer. The white man should be ashamed get off of high horse please what have you actually endured? the daily, ritualistic, physical beatings your ancestors used to get? give me a break. My family is norwegian, I don't go around cry about what the "vikings" did to my ancestors and that it deeply affects me to this day. quit blaming everything "on the white man" and do something else about it besides blaming someone else you got trolled...... nice to know how you really feel though! the fact you think you can tell me how I feel or should of reacted to someones response lets me know enough about your intelligence already
Yes, the fact that I took your strong words to be a reflection of how you really felt when responding to an obvious troll is a great indicator of MY level of intelligence. /sarcasm
I'm not telling you how you should have reacted, just commenting on your reaction to a troll. If you don't like it, don't post on a forum.
|
I like how some people are saying "why does this matter" ITS a CASTER ACTING PROFESSIONAL you dont go around calling people niggers when you lose thats even lower then ratzdeezer status. This is so much worse then Katsu with playhem its a white kid in america calling people NIGGERS and he wants to be taken seriously is this a joke? Look at his stream TAG IT SAYS ABSOLUTE JUDGMENT LOL come on come on.....
|
just heard from scoots on onemoregame , ORB will not be casting the EGMCS tonight. looks like he is gone.
|
On March 09 2012 11:07 Chessz wrote: List of things this whole fiasco is NOT actually about, which nobody really gives a fuck about:
1) whether or not orb is actually racist 2) how "offensive" it is to say racist words on a "personal" stream 3) how the semantics of the word has changed, or how other streamers/casters have used bad words
What this is about, why the community has had such a response:
1) race issues are still precedent in today's society and resonate with people. It's pretty clear language is still a very powerful tool 2) professionalism of our community members and their obligation to represent the community responsibly 3) How our gaming culture is evolving into something where our trash talking is more civilized and doesn't use racial or homophobic slurs to strengthen attacks. When a person in the public eye does it, it matters. Whether or not people agree with that (or should agree) is a big hurdle. 4) Ultimately, the recourse is EG's and EG's alone.
This is spot on. People who are saying they don't understand why so many posters are angry aren't understanding the real topic being discussed. Its more than one person. Its about a whole community.
|
On March 09 2012 11:05 MWY wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 11:03 cameler wrote: Well, I know one thing.
A white man can NOT use the N word in public.... anywhere... and doing it behind the safety of your computer monitor makes you look like a complete pussy, mr.orb.
This is the sign of a real weak minded person. Thats racist.
Well, we have laws to decide about that, don't we? We are the kings of our own homes, but in the public sphere, you can't spew hatred.... in Canada anyways.
|
I am just wondering, if he was... "afro american" and used "white trash" to rage if this would have become such a big deal....
|
On March 09 2012 09:29 mapleleafs791 wrote:
Edit: I think alot of people are overreacting, but alot of people are also under reacting
QFT.
It's really disappointing to realize there's people on this board that equate the use of the word nigger in a juvenile-nerd rage to it's use in light ethnic humor, rap music, or stand-up comedy.
It's almost as if most of the people on in this community have never even hung out with black person or had a gay friend. The obliviousness of some people is surprising.
|
On March 09 2012 11:08 hordala wrote: I like how some people are saying "why does this matter" ITS a CASTER ACTING PROFESSIONAL you dont go around calling people niggers when you lose thats even lower then ratzdeezer status. This is so much worse then Katsu with playhem its a white kid in america calling people NIGGERS and he wants to be taken seriously is this a joke? Look at his stream TAG IT SAYS ABSOLUTE JUDGMENT LOL come on come on.....
so true this is not proffesional at all im frankly shocked that EG even hired someone like this.....
|
Who, the fuck, cares.
I've BM'ed using that word before, although I'm not a racist in any means. It's just part of the NA culture, TONS of people do it.
Even if he is a racist, so what? For EG that obviously hurts their reputation, but the majority of the viewers/players couldn't give less of a fuck.
|
Time again for our weekly ESPORTS drama!
|
|
|
|