OP Edited :D
New Bio Unit in HotS
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alpha01
4 Posts
OP Edited :D | ||
Probe1
United States17920 Posts
I mean these threads rarely go anywhere great but if you really were to pursue the idea and ask for feedback on it you'd have to flesh it out and present a structured idea, not just a simple thought. | ||
LOLItsRyann
England551 Posts
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On November 08 2012 01:55 alpha01 wrote: Hi,Im a PLatinum Terran player in HotS,sinc the warhound got removed,i dont like that terran just has 1 new unit.(The hellbat isnt a new unit)What do u think of a T3 Bio Unit,so that Bio wont die between mech. They have stated they have no plans to add more units for Terran to replace the warhound. | ||
renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
On November 08 2012 02:20 Pokebunny wrote: They have stated they have no plans to add more units for Terran to replace the warhound. Crying every time I read that | ||
Patate
Canada441 Posts
On November 08 2012 02:20 Pokebunny wrote: They have stated they have no plans to add more units for Terran to replace the warhound. Well they really have no plans and all, so no surprise there. They just throw lots of stuff on the wall, and if it is sticks, they keep it. | ||
Leviance
Germany4079 Posts
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LOLItsRyann
England551 Posts
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Anomi
Sweden149 Posts
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leova
266 Posts
Terran had THE MOST STUFF and the MOST VERSATILITY in WoL, so anybody whining about how they got no new toys needs to hush. They key to Terran is to use TACTICS (aka micro) as opposed to STRATEGY (macro), which people still struggle with. Use the widow mine(which is OP as all hell anyway), use the Hellbat, and just be happy | ||
Tsuki.eu
Portugal1049 Posts
I still cant belive that, how are they going to fix terran late game (or zerg late game that just got even better)? widow mine is not the anwser and firebat is just silly... | ||
Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
On November 08 2012 03:26 Tsuki.eu wrote: I still cant belive that, how are they going to fix terran late game (or zerg late game that just got even better)? widow mine is not the anwser and firebat is just silly... Hellbat is anything but silly except its name. It's a good unit but of course it was not designed to help in late game TvZ in the first place. I always think late game problem in TvZ lies with zerg side because of infestors not because terran is weak in late game. | ||
pmp10
3135 Posts
On November 08 2012 03:35 Wildmoon wrote: Hellbat is anything but silly except its name. It's a good unit but of course it was not designed to help in late game TvZ in the first place. I always think late game problem in TvZ lies with zerg side because of infestors not because terran is weak in late game. Actually hellbats could help with broodlings. But I agree that given the changes to protoss and zerg lategame the terran focus is in all the wrong places. Especially now that it seems that mech TvP will be staying dead. | ||
Jokah
United Kingdom74 Posts
On November 08 2012 03:23 leova wrote: the answer is VERY SIMPLE: Terran had THE MOST STUFF and the MOST VERSATILITY in WoL, so anybody whining about how they got no new toys needs to hush. They key to Terran is to use TACTICS (aka micro) as opposed to STRATEGY (macro), which people still struggle with. Use the widow mine(which is OP as all hell anyway), use the Hellbat, and just be happy Someones previous point still remains. Why would a Terran player buy HotS just to play with the same units that were in WoL? I don't fancy paying money for the same game twice! Granted you get to play "against" different units but I'd rather play "with" different units if I'm going to fork out money for it. I don't know why I bother replying to these. Your post is just ridiculous and childish. | ||
LOLItsRyann
England551 Posts
On November 08 2012 03:23 leova wrote: the answer is VERY SIMPLE: Terran had THE MOST STUFF and the MOST VERSATILITY in WoL, so anybody whining about how they got no new toys needs to hush. They key to Terran is to use TACTICS (aka micro) as opposed to STRATEGY (macro), which people still struggle with. Use the widow mine(which is OP as all hell anyway), use the Hellbat, and just be happy What you say is very true actually. Look at a very rough description of the 3 mirror matchups: ZvZ - Ling/Bling play - Roach/Hydra/Infestor mid game - Muta mid game - Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor late game (when it ever gets there). - Occaionally the mass upgrade, Ultralisk rush melee style. PvP - 4 Gate play - Phoenix play - Colossus core unit from mid game on wards. TvT - Marine play - Marine, Hellion play - Banshee play - Reaper play - Marine, Tank mid game, MMM mid game, Mech (Hellion, Tank, Thor), Sky Terran late game (Boxer vs Rain). I know there are other things like Nydus play, DT rushes, and Proxy Marauder in each match up respectively, I just wanted to focus on the most common things. TvT is by far my most entertaining match up to watch, purely because of how versatile it is. You can never predict what people do, whereas you get a PvP on Taldarim and it's like you've already seen the game. It's an odd situation, because Blizzard have been great to get it so good first time. However, with so little holes left in the Terran race, it's like they are forcing things in because of an expansion, and don't forget, there's a third expansion too. What in gods name will they add to Terran then? At the end of the day, Starcraft has not a GREAT deal of need for new units at all, however, for retail purposes they're being added, which is perfectly reasonable. It makes a lot more sense when you think of it this way, and also helps you to see it from Blizzard's point of view. Of course everyone wants new units in an expansion, we're paying for it after all, it's just a difficult process. What I'm trying to say, is that Starcraft is a very well made and balanced game, with not a lot of holes to fill. Yet, there are TWO expansions being released for the game, expansions meaning extra content for a smaller price than the original. For expansions to exist, they need to expand the game. Expanding an already complete game is incredibly hard to do. So as frustrating as it may be for Terran to have next to no 'new' units, it's understandable to see why. Also, whoever hasn't seen that Boxer vs Rain TvT on Metalopolis, I'm almost certain that any Starcraft player would recommend watching it. Trust me on this. It's epic. | ||
renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
Maybe the re-designs will make me happy | ||
Epishade
United States2267 Posts
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Saigon2246
Hungary23 Posts
I see this as just another painful mistake that derives from the lack of fantasy and concept. This simply doesn't fit into sc. No other unit has that feature, no other unit can have additional hps, or change its unit type. Only other ability that comes close to this is maybe stimpack as it changes hit points in a negative way, but even that doesn't change unit type. But stimpack makes sense in a way that you trade temporary dps-boost for hit points. This is logical, this feels "starcrafty", the Hellion transform ability doesn't. It's like Blizzard is breaking its own "rules" in order to achieve their goals. It just doesn't feel right. It is just painfully obvious that it's a Firebat. There are small differences, but basically it's a Firebat from factory, without stim, but stronger AoE. Why not let the good old Firebats coming out of barracks, so they could help help out terran bio in the late game in TvP, as chargelots together with Warpgate mechanics just seem to be too strong. As for the Hellions, I would absolutely like the idea if there weren't any transform option for Hellions, instead they could have the flame attack with the wider arc as an upgrade and maybe a new ability like the spider mine back in BW (so mech would become better vs toss) and at the same time we could also have the Firebat as a new bio unit with stim from the barracks, so playing bio vs toss would be more fair in the lategame. The more options we have, the more varied and better game we get. | ||
pmp10
3135 Posts
On November 08 2012 05:02 Saigon2246 wrote: I don't like the concept of the Hellbat at all. What is the point of a transform ability that doesn't change the role of a unit massively? I mean when Siege Tanks transfrom, they become an inmobile siege unit from a simple ranged unit. When Vikings transform, they become a ground unit from an air unit. How does this apply to the Hellbat? Hellbat remains an anti-light ground to ground unit no matter the transform. What changes beside the attack is the hit points and unit type. I see this as just another painful mistake that derives from the lack of fantasy and concept. This simply doesn't fit into sc. No other unit has that feature, no other unit can have additional hps, or change its unit type. It is just painfully obvious that it's a Firebat. There are small differences, but basically it's a Firebat from factory, without stim, but stronger AoE. Why not let the good old Firebats coming out of barracks, so they could help help out terran bio in the late game in TvP, as chargelots together with Warpgate mechanics just seem to be too strong. As for the Hellions, I would absolutely like the idea if there weren't any transform option for Hellions, instead they could have the flame attack with the wider arc as an upgrade and maybe a new ability like the spider mine back in BW (so mech would become better vs toss) and at the same time we could also have the Firebat as a new bio unit with stim from the barracks, so playing bio vs toss would be more fair in the lategame. The more options we have, the more varied and better game we get. Hellbat was initially never supposed to be bio. It was meant to make mech viable by countering chargelots that hellions couldn't handle. Now that it's failed Blizzard is looking for other ways to make it useful hence making it bio so that it could be healed by medivacs. | ||
eviltomahawk
United States11132 Posts
On November 08 2012 03:26 Tsuki.eu wrote: I still cant belive that, how are they going to fix terran late game (or zerg late game that just got even better)? widow mine is not the anwser and firebat is just silly... I think the answer will lie in the Raven redesign. | ||
rembrant
62 Posts
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DanLee
Canada316 Posts
On November 08 2012 03:01 LOLItsRyann wrote: Everyone is disappointed that Terran are only getting a new model of an old unit, and an incredibly bland and boring unit, which is almost static defense. Zerg has the best new stuff, and Protoss has improved a lot, but Terran is extremely similar to WoL. Not worth buying for Terrans imo. despite the fact you have to buy it to play multiplayer, that's the worth. | ||
scph
Korea (South)262 Posts
I actually would love the goliath back, and make the viking go back to being WRAITHS. Yes, that's right. This is just ignoring balance and wishfully thinking though. | ||
DanLee
Canada316 Posts
On November 08 2012 05:32 scph wrote: I just want more shit that ISN'T AoE. A new t3 bio unit would have to fill in a role the marine can't, and that seems likely impossible, because marines op, at least, in the eyes of many. I actually would love the goliath back, and make the viking go back to being WRAITHS. Yes, that's right. This is just ignoring balance and wishfully thinking though. banshee seems more like a wraith imo, viking seems like a valkyrie with without splash. | ||
Xanbatou
United States805 Posts
On November 08 2012 04:22 Jokah wrote: Someones previous point still remains. Why would a Terran player buy HotS just to play with the same units that were in WoL? I don't fancy paying money for the same game twice! Granted you get to play "against" different units but I'd rather play "with" different units if I'm going to fork out money for it. I don't know why I bother replying to these. Your post is just ridiculous and childish. I'm glad you prioritize having shiny brew toys to play with over having a more balanced and fun game. I for one would gladly pay for a more balanced and fun game even if that meant I didn't get the shiny toys I wanted. | ||
scph
Korea (South)262 Posts
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LOLItsRyann
England551 Posts
On November 08 2012 05:25 DanLee wrote: despite the fact you have to buy it to play multiplayer, that's the worth. I don't understand. What's the worth? The fact that Terran's don't get much in Hots? That doesn't make sense. | ||
Yoshi Kirishima
United States10127 Posts
terran already is a very solid race from WoL, even though Mech isn't strong in TvP (and much of WoL's lifetime, TvT and TvZ mech weren't strong neither) the widow mine and hell bat will make mech stronger, which means you can explore the factory tech tree a lot more now -- that alone will bring much more strategies and stuff to the game Also hellbats will help bio's lategame as well, like in TvP, giving them the ability to transition into bio mech and if the game goes really long, bio mech. BC buff will also increase the ability to transition from bio into air (we've already seen many players start upgrading ship def after ship atk and add BCs to their vikings) | ||
scph
Korea (South)262 Posts
On November 08 2012 05:53 LOLItsRyann wrote: I don't understand. What's the worth? The fact that Terran's don't get much in Hots? That doesn't make sense. The worth is that you're not stuck playing WoL multiplayer while everyone else is on HotS multiplayer, the updated SC2. If you like prefer not updating, that's all good too, but some people find worth in keeping up to date with what's new. | ||
FroZeN.Broken
Sweden47 Posts
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
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LOLItsRyann
England551 Posts
On November 08 2012 09:46 scph wrote: The worth is that you're not stuck playing WoL multiplayer while everyone else is on HotS multiplayer, the updated SC2. If you like prefer not updating, that's all good too, but some people find worth in keeping up to date with what's new. Oh don't get me wrong, if hots had zero new units at all, I would still buy it to keep up to date. What I'm saying is, keeping up to date is not worth paying for. The phrase 'keeping up to date' means owning the latest versions of a particular something. Blizzard could remove every unit except workers and set the ladder speed to slowest, it's still the latest version. Is it worth paying for that though? Hell no. Which is my point. A lot of people will buy hots to keep up to date, regardless of what Blizzard do. Me included. | ||
NonameAI
127 Posts
On November 08 2012 09:49 FroZeN.Broken wrote: No more Bio thanks, if anything, then mech, or late game support unit. Raven is like pretty crappy, hopefully a better redesign. Raven is actually insanely strong. But it is too expensive to get upgrades, and comes too late in the game. PDD is amazing against locust/every AA zerg has except for IT. Seeker owns large groups of corrupters/mutas/anything but ultras, really. This is why we see some terrans getting an insane sky terran deathball and PDDing corrupters while banshees/BC tears stuff to shreds with the raven seekers for xtra damage. There is another WoL video a month ago where the terran maxed on terran air, and seekered corrupters. This one'll do though: He won a game he should of lost because of a few lucky missiles at the end. | ||
leova
266 Posts
i don't know how it would work, what it would do, or any specifics really....i just feel that the ENTIRE RACE being all ranged is a little bit wonky and OP in many situations. when you have Toss with Zealots and DTs melee, and Zerg with Zerglings and Ultralisks....terran having ZERO melee units just kinds sucks | ||
J_Slim
United States199 Posts
All new Reaper. Having high ground vision is huge. All new form for hellion. Very much a different unit, and if you claim otherwise, you're just silly =p Widow mine. Gone through some changes, will probably go through more, but powerful unit. All of the new terran stuff is very powerful. | ||
moskonia
Israel1448 Posts
On November 08 2012 04:34 LOLItsRyann wrote: PvP - 4 Gate play - Phoenix play - Colossus core unit from mid game on wards. BS I say, you have no idea about Protoss, PvP is much more complicated then that, except the lategame PvP is a very fine matchup, where you fight using 1 of 3 choices or the combination of them, with many builds to each tech choice. | ||
MasterCynical
505 Posts
On November 08 2012 13:26 leova wrote: honestly, i've wanted this for a long time... A MELEE TERRAN UNIT i don't know how it would work, what it would do, or any specifics really....i just feel that the ENTIRE RACE being all ranged is a little bit wonky and OP in many situations. when you have Toss with Zealots and DTs melee, and Zerg with Zerglings and Ultralisks....terran having ZERO melee units just kinds sucks The hellbat pretty much attacks in melee range. | ||
Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
Come on... This could easily have been made into a marauder researched ability, Hollow point Munitions reprogramming: 100M 100G Marauders acquire schematics to manufacture anti-personnel munitions instead of anti-armor within their suit. Effect: light units, 20 dmg, non-light units, 10dmg Effect: upon activating the ability, marauders freeze for 2 sec as their suit reconfigures to produce anti-light rounds. Role: assigns anti-light role of reaper to a marauder, designed to form part of "death-ball", while maintaining anti-worker/marine/ling/zealot utility of reaper. Flavor: Demands of ammunition to a stretched army fighting on two fronts, field technicians hacked a salvaged marauder suit's munitions factory inbuilt into the suit to produce rounds for marines and reapers. Word soon spread throughout the Dominion and now is de rigeur to modify new arrivals of marauders to be able to switch between the two options. | ||
johnny123
521 Posts
On November 08 2012 09:39 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: the hell bat , widow mine, and reaper changes are enough terran already is a very solid race from WoL, even though Mech isn't strong in TvP (and much of WoL's lifetime, TvT and TvZ mech weren't strong neither) the widow mine and hell bat will make mech stronger, which means you can explore the factory tech tree a lot more now -- that alone will bring much more strategies and stuff to the game Also hellbats will help bio's lategame as well, like in TvP, giving them the ability to transition into bio mech and if the game goes really long, bio mech. BC buff will also increase the ability to transition from bio into air (we've already seen many players start upgrading ship def after ship atk and add BCs to their vikings) absolute bullshit, you should be spaded and neutered for uttering such non-sense. Its people like you that encourage blizzard to keep putting out a half assed project. There are so many aspects of terran play that could be touched upon, especially the late game . I made this post onbattlenet forums , so i am copy pasting. 1) THE THOR REASON : Currently the only reason thor has energy is so that high templars can feed back them. Early in sc2 days, Blizzard removed this energy bar and had strike cannons on a cooldown. Eventually after seeing a couple THOR all ins from a player called THORZAIN. Blizzard decided it was best to bring back the energy bar for a useless ability just to make the thor a liability in the matchup . End result = thor basically never built in the tvp matchup. Glaring and terrible game design to address this issue like this. SUGGESTED CHANGE : Since protoss now has new tools, this can be changed ( tempest, m-core,orcale) Replace strike cannons for a brand new ability. Create this ability with the focus on mowing down the immortal shields. Another ability can be a very long range single shot anti air missile. I suspect in the future Mass tempests will always counter a meching terran. It would help if the thor could at least assist in this department ( this long range AA missile would help against winfestors and gglords as well) BIO VIABILITY GOING INTO HOTS REASON -With the new additions in the game, I think people would be fools to say playing bio has not got harder. With additions such as Blinding cloud/Widow Mines/Oracle Time bomb/hell bats/swarm hosts + all the old stuff from wings that combo with the new stuff now ( like psi storm+ time bomb), Or lets say you do a medicvac drop of units on a protoss base, now he can make the nexus attack with the core preventing the nexus kill resulting in a botched terran drop leading to a loss which would have been so critical in WOL to get. Or lets say medicvac drop on terran, Widow mines blow up the drop ships. Its no surprise bio = nerfed SUGGESTION While i think its great blizzard is improving mech ( i like) , I see a need for bio to get buffed as well due to these new features of the other races, If i was blizzard i would be aiming to get both strats viable instead of one per matchup. TvT is heavily leaning towards mech only in HOTS, TvZ can be both strats, And TvP is still mass bio and loose late game to highly teched protoss units. So what can be done? Replace medivac + energy upgrade to an upgrade that grants faster healing rate. NEED NEW MECH UNIT -REASON Without a new mech unit, TvP is still going to be bio matchup. Again its about trying to get both style viable. Obviously i dont want to see the matchup swing to only mech and nothing but mech, But right now its only bio and nothing but bio. For this reason an Anti Mechanical unit needs to come in . SUGGESTION -Either bring back a different version of the warhound with its focus on killing mechanical units, Or do something with the thor to fill this role . This anti mech unit will be needed as well for TvT since i suspect it will be a mech dominated matchup. Blizzard please forsee this because TvT is about to get quite boring to play and watch. Some sort of anti mech unit will get mech viable in TvP in addition to bio strats, And it will make TvT more enjoyable to watch/play. BATTLE-CRUISER -Revisit the speed ability you guys where about to put in and didnt bother IN hots the battlecruiser is going to be WORST than in WINGS ( of which it was hardly ever used to begin with) TvP Tempests will literally laugh at the battlecruisers. They totally counter them ez pz. TvZ Vipers Pull/Vipers cloud and the standard corrupter mass or tons of infested terrans with fungal = still useless in this matchup. Unless battlecruisers get something in HOTS, they going to go the way of carriers . Completely and utterly useless. If you build them you are asking to loose. ADDITIONAL AREAS OF POTENTIAL CONCERN -Revisit Ghost Snipe damage figures -Revisit the Raven heat seeker missile ( possible replace for irradiate ability instead) User was temp banned for this post. | ||
Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On November 10 2012 05:15 johnny123 wrote: absolute bullshit, you should be spaded and neutered for uttering such non-sense. Its people like you that encourage blizzard to keep putting out a half assed project. There are so many aspects of terran play that could be touched upon, especially the late game . I made this post onbattlenet forums , so i am copy pasting. 1) THE THOR REASON : Currently the only reason thor has energy is so that high templars can feed back them. Early in sc2 days, Blizzard removed this energy bar and had strike cannons on a cooldown. Eventually after seeing a couple THOR all ins from a player called THORZAIN. Blizzard decided it was best to bring back the energy bar for a useless ability just to make the thor a liability in the matchup . End result = thor basically never built in the tvp matchup. Glaring and terrible game design to address this issue like this. SUGGESTED CHANGE : Since protoss now has new tools, this can be changed ( tempest, m-core,orcale) Replace strike cannons for a brand new ability. Create this ability with the focus on mowing down the immortal shields. Another ability can be a very long range single shot anti air missile. I suspect in the future Mass tempests will always counter a meching terran. It would help if the thor could at least assist in this department ( this long range AA missile would help against winfestors and gglords as well) BIO VIABILITY GOING INTO HOTS REASON -With the new additions in the game, I think people would be fools to say playing bio has not got harder. With additions such as Blinding cloud/Widow Mines/Oracle Time bomb/hell bats/swarm hosts + all the old stuff from wings that combo with the new stuff now ( like psi storm+ time bomb), Or lets say you do a medicvac drop of units on a protoss base, now he can make the nexus attack with the core preventing the nexus kill resulting in a botched terran drop leading to a loss which would have been so critical in WOL to get. Or lets say medicvac drop on terran, Widow mines blow up the drop ships. Its no surprise bio = nerfed SUGGESTION While i think its great blizzard is improving mech ( i like) , I see a need for bio to get buffed as well due to these new features of the other races, If i was blizzard i would be aiming to get both strats viable instead of one per matchup. TvT is heavily leaning towards mech only in HOTS, TvZ can be both strats, And TvP is still mass bio and loose late game to highly teched protoss units. So what can be done? Replace medivac + energy upgrade to an upgrade that grants faster healing rate. NEED NEW MECH UNIT -REASON Without a new mech unit, TvP is still going to be bio matchup. Again its about trying to get both style viable. Obviously i dont want to see the matchup swing to only mech and nothing but mech, But right now its only bio and nothing but bio. For this reason an Anti Mechanical unit needs to come in . SUGGESTION -Either bring back a different version of the warhound with its focus on killing mechanical units, Or do something with the thor to fill this role . This anti mech unit will be needed as well for TvT since i suspect it will be a mech dominated matchup. Blizzard please forsee this because TvT is about to get quite boring to play and watch. Some sort of anti mech unit will get mech viable in TvP in addition to bio strats, And it will make TvT more enjoyable to watch/play. BATTLE-CRUISER -Revisit the speed ability you guys where about to put in and didnt bother IN hots the battlecruiser is going to be WORST than in WINGS ( of which it was hardly ever used to begin with) TvP Tempests will literally laugh at the battlecruisers. They totally counter them ez pz. TvZ Vipers Pull/Vipers cloud and the standard corrupter mass or tons of infested terrans with fungal = still useless in this matchup. Unless battlecruisers get something in HOTS, they going to go the way of carriers . Completely and utterly useless. If you build them you are asking to loose. ADDITIONAL AREAS OF POTENTIAL CONCERN -Revisit Ghost Snipe damage figures -Revisit the Raven heat seeker missile ( possible replace for irradiate ability instead) I love this post so hard. BTW bio drops are not nerfed, it just means TvT you need a banshee minimum to snipe workers AND clear possible mines. | ||
Inquisitor1323
370 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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Inquisitor1323
370 Posts
On November 10 2012 05:15 johnny123 wrote: absolute bullshit, you should be spaded and neutered for uttering such non-sense. Its people like you that encourage blizzard to keep putting out a half assed project. There are so many aspects of terran play that could be touched upon, especially the late game . I made this post onbattlenet forums , so i am copy pasting. 1) THE THOR REASON : Currently the only reason thor has energy is so that high templars can feed back them. Early in sc2 days, Blizzard removed this energy bar and had strike cannons on a cooldown. Eventually after seeing a couple THOR all ins from a player called THORZAIN. Blizzard decided it was best to bring back the energy bar for a useless ability just to make the thor a liability in the matchup . End result = thor basically never built in the tvp matchup. Glaring and terrible game design to address this issue like this. SUGGESTED CHANGE : Since protoss now has new tools, this can be changed ( tempest, m-core,orcale) Replace strike cannons for a brand new ability. Create this ability with the focus on mowing down the immortal shields. Another ability can be a very long range single shot anti air missile. I suspect in the future Mass tempests will always counter a meching terran. It would help if the thor could at least assist in this department ( this long range AA missile would help against winfestors and gglords as well) BIO VIABILITY GOING INTO HOTS REASON -With the new additions in the game, I think people would be fools to say playing bio has not got harder. With additions such as Blinding cloud/Widow Mines/Oracle Time bomb/hell bats/swarm hosts + all the old stuff from wings that combo with the new stuff now ( like psi storm+ time bomb), Or lets say you do a medicvac drop of units on a protoss base, now he can make the nexus attack with the core preventing the nexus kill resulting in a botched terran drop leading to a loss which would have been so critical in WOL to get. Or lets say medicvac drop on terran, Widow mines blow up the drop ships. Its no surprise bio = nerfed SUGGESTION While i think its great blizzard is improving mech ( i like) , I see a need for bio to get buffed as well due to these new features of the other races, If i was blizzard i would be aiming to get both strats viable instead of one per matchup. TvT is heavily leaning towards mech only in HOTS, TvZ can be both strats, And TvP is still mass bio and loose late game to highly teched protoss units. So what can be done? Replace medivac + energy upgrade to an upgrade that grants faster healing rate. NEED NEW MECH UNIT -REASON Without a new mech unit, TvP is still going to be bio matchup. Again its about trying to get both style viable. Obviously i dont want to see the matchup swing to only mech and nothing but mech, But right now its only bio and nothing but bio. For this reason an Anti Mechanical unit needs to come in . SUGGESTION -Either bring back a different version of the warhound with its focus on killing mechanical units, Or do something with the thor to fill this role . This anti mech unit will be needed as well for TvT since i suspect it will be a mech dominated matchup. Blizzard please forsee this because TvT is about to get quite boring to play and watch. Some sort of anti mech unit will get mech viable in TvP in addition to bio strats, And it will make TvT more enjoyable to watch/play. BATTLE-CRUISER -Revisit the speed ability you guys where about to put in and didnt bother IN hots the battlecruiser is going to be WORST than in WINGS ( of which it was hardly ever used to begin with) TvP Tempests will literally laugh at the battlecruisers. They totally counter them ez pz. TvZ Vipers Pull/Vipers cloud and the standard corrupter mass or tons of infested terrans with fungal = still useless in this matchup. Unless battlecruisers get something in HOTS, they going to go the way of carriers . Completely and utterly useless. If you build them you are asking to loose. ADDITIONAL AREAS OF POTENTIAL CONCERN -Revisit Ghost Snipe damage figures -Revisit the Raven heat seeker missile ( possible replace for irradiate ability instead) With the Thor I agree with you, it needs to have the energy bar removed. Immortals counter thors anyway, why make them counterable by HTs as well? Also, that movement slow thing is going to destroy bio TvP forever. Storm plus that will rape bio incredibly hard. Considering bio TvP is hard enough as is, not making mech viable is just stupid. As for that healing upgrade, that would have too much of an effect on TvZ and TvT for it to work. Also, T3 terran units are complete shit as is. The BC sucks all around, and almost never sees standard play. The thor isnt used at all in one matchup and only very conditionally in the other 2. This is just disgraceful, as T3 units are expensive and therefore should be the finest units the terrans have to offer. | ||
HGurryp
275 Posts
On November 08 2012 04:34 LOLItsRyann wrote: What you say is very true actually. Look at a very rough description of the 3 mirror matchups: ZvZ - Ling/Bling play - Roach/Hydra/Infestor mid game - Muta mid game - Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor late game (when it ever gets there). - Occaionally the mass upgrade, Ultralisk rush melee style. PvP - 4 Gate play - Phoenix play - Colossus core unit from mid game on wards. TvT - Marine play - Marine, Hellion play - Banshee play - Reaper play - Marine, Tank mid game, MMM mid game, Mech (Hellion, Tank, Thor), Sky Terran late game (Boxer vs Rain). I know there are other things like Nydus play, DT rushes, and Proxy Marauder in each match up respectively, I just wanted to focus on the most common things. TvT is by far my most entertaining match up to watch, purely because of how versatile it is. You can never predict what people do, whereas you get a PvP on Taldarim and it's like you've already seen the game. It's an odd situation, because Blizzard have been great to get it so good first time. However, with so little holes left in the Terran race, it's like they are forcing things in because of an expansion, and don't forget, there's a third expansion too. What in gods name will they add to Terran then? At the end of the day, Starcraft has not a GREAT deal of need for new units at all, however, for retail purposes they're being added, which is perfectly reasonable. It makes a lot more sense when you think of it this way, and also helps you to see it from Blizzard's point of view. Of course everyone wants new units in an expansion, we're paying for it after all, it's just a difficult process. What I'm trying to say, is that Starcraft is a very well made and balanced game, with not a lot of holes to fill. Yet, there are TWO expansions being released for the game, expansions meaning extra content for a smaller price than the original. For expansions to exist, they need to expand the game. Expanding an already complete game is incredibly hard to do. So as frustrating as it may be for Terran to have next to no 'new' units, it's understandable to see why. Also, whoever hasn't seen that Boxer vs Rain TvT on Metalopolis, I'm almost certain that any Starcraft player would recommend watching it. Trust me on this. It's epic. Reaper play? Marine hellion play? Banshee play? This is a build not composition. TvT is more like. Mech? Bioball or Biomech, Marine tank? Marine tank or Mech and the opponent will make bioball or biomech. If u are talking about the builds too PVP HAS MUCH MORE. Blink stalker play, Robo play, Zealot Archon with collossus into Mothership, ZvZ Ling infestor into fast hive(Stephano) Ling Roach, Roach/Hydra, Broodlord Infestor Hydra(Super late game), and there is one Roach/Queen with mass transfuse push. Edit: I hope u understood because my english isn't good, but i'm learning. | ||
sjperera
Canada349 Posts
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ClanRH.TV
United States462 Posts
On November 08 2012 04:22 Jokah wrote: Someones previous point still remains. Why would a Terran player buy HotS just to play with the same units that were in WoL? I don't fancy paying money for the same game twice! Granted you get to play "against" different units but I'd rather play "with" different units if I'm going to fork out money for it. I don't know why I bother replying to these. Your post is just ridiculous and childish. Sounds like your inability to recognize you were given more in the first place, and therefore given less this time around, is childish. It's called being "fair." You learn it in Kindergarten. | ||
johnny123
521 Posts
On November 11 2012 05:41 sjperera wrote: Firebats + MMM is pretty good... especially dealing with those 20 warped in charge zealots... i disagree, i been using it and it really makes no difference. i find that i either win or loose based on other aspects of the game, These firebats dont do jack shit. Try it. 0/0 hell bats with MMM vs 3/3 zealots archon colosus storm etc.. Useless. They also much slower than your stimmed army, so they always straggle behind. At this point i wish the bio flag was removed so when going full on mech the b-hellions could tank more. | ||
WeRRa
378 Posts
Ghosts: Change their costs again, make them cost more gas than minerals, since bio is very mineral heavy. It's hard to get ghosts out wich cost a lot minerals aswell. Viking: Buff the groundattack so vikings don't get totally useless once protoss or zerg does a techswitch and give vikins the mech upgrades instead of air upgrades, helps a lot to support mech and bio mech play. | ||
SwedishTosser
61 Posts
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MikeHunt69
1 Post
User was banned for this post. | ||
BadgKat
United States156 Posts
On November 11 2012 07:37 SwedishTosser wrote: The one thing that Terrans need the most, in my opinion, is a unit that can break the enemy siege lines in TvT. Everyone of the late game TvT that I have played so far has ended with just massive siege tank spam. You can't counter it with other ground units because they get ripped into pieces and trying to go bc + Viking will just end with that the other guy gets just Viking + tanks wich out ranges everything. I think the terrans need some kind of unit that can break the siege lines but without messing with the other match ups like the war hound did. I say, remove the strike cannon from the Thor and give it something fancy that will work somewhat similar to the warhounds. Since thors is one of the units that you never see except Versus mutas, this will make it more versatile. No, just no. Terran does not need another counter to siege tank. There are already so many. Terran needs late game options and ways to get there. | ||
Erik.TheRed
United States1655 Posts
The Janitor Non-attacking unit that scrubs the floor to clear away creep instantly. Needs to be micro-managed to be useful. It comes with a nifty hazard suit that makes it immune to fungal growth and resilient to banelings and roach attacks. | ||
HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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