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On November 24 2012 13:25 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 12:08 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2012 12:00 Antylamon wrote: An "excuse?" When these groups were decided, there were no units or spells which had any disadvantages or advantages against Psionic. Lore was literally the only deciding factor. It is now subject to change due to gameplay, which has much higher importance in everyone's perspective.
Now that the Raven being Psionic can make a difference, the Raven may change. However, as stated in the notes about the Raven HSM change, Blizz wants to buff the Raven slightly in this test map to increase its usage, but without affecting the lategame too much. To me it seems that they want to confirm or disprove any thoughts they have about why Ravens are neglected. After Blizz knows for sure what is wrong with Ravens, then they'll buff accordingly. Whats wrong with ravens...... hmmm lets see 1) Short cast ranges 2) its abit slow 3) HSM costs to much energy 4) Durable materials should be built in. oh and it doesn't help that blizzard isn't directly addressing the "root" of funguls problems. But anyways, look at the current planed patch. the raven will still not get in range to cast the spells aslong as fungul roots them. if the fungul change goes threw, then why not make the raven Psionic so that the raven can get in range to cast the missles, PDD's/Auto turrets? This is not a debate about balance overall. You made a thread asking why Ravens are not Psionic, and I answered. That said, The test map is nothing more than an experiment. Instead of bringing down the hammer quickly like they did on HTs and Thors, Blizz is being cautious not to nerf the Infestor to oblivion and/or make the Raven the new Infestor. I, for one, prefer this behavior, because it is much more likely to result in great balance compared to rash changes in which the implications have not been completely thought through. Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 13:07 blug wrote:On November 24 2012 12:55 Zergrusher wrote:On November 24 2012 12:48 AoWGoDLiKe wrote: ravens are not psyonic, because they are not psyonic. does that make sense? auto turret and pdd arent psyonic spells at all. as well as the raven, which isnt a psyonic unit itself. that might be the reason why the raven isnt a psyonic unit. I agree that the raven is too week, but Its doubtful that your idea would help balancing tvz oh so much... Did you even read the recent call to action:Balance testing? Read it, and then comeback to comment on my idea. Dude, the fact is it's not psionic. It's like calling my washing machine psionic. Obviously Lore/Multiplayer don't always follow suite, but calling a machine psionic is entering the realm of dumb. Also no I disagree, once Mass Air Terran Occurs, Terran at most times have an advantage against Zerg, so why should ravens avoid fungal? Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 13:20 AfricanPsycho wrote:On November 24 2012 11:39 Zergrusher wrote: I bring this up Because of the recent balance test they are Trying out in WOL
The ravens spells cast ranges are pretty short ranged(which is stupid and I'll post about that at some other point).
PDD and Auto Turret cast range is 3 and Seeker missle cast range is 6
VS funguls cast range of 9
If ravens were Psionic they would atleast have a chance of excaping fungul and also casting spells.
So basically I'm asking the Raven to be a Psionic unit, for the sake of balance and good gameplay.
This recent patch Favors the ZVP match up more then the ZVT match up,
Concidering all of the Psionic units protoss has, compared to the only Psionic unit Terran has is the ghost.
So if you change the Raven to Psionic it will help TVZ aswell.
Um... because its a robot? It wouldn't make sense if it was psionic. Why are Hellbats bio? Throw lore out the window; we want a better game, not better lore.
Hellbats could make sense, because when they change forms they may very well expose the person who is actually driving the vehicle (Which in turn is biological).
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On November 24 2012 15:23 desserthunter wrote: Yeah, I kinda agree that Raven should be Psionic. It is pretty funny how Warp prism and Dark Templar are Psionic while Raven isn't. I also think that the Overseer should also be Psionic.
So including the HoTS units, Protoss has 8 Psionic units, Zerg has 3, and Terran only has 1.
Which makes sense since protoss are the "masters of the void" all their units and structures posess some kind of psionic element, it is after all what there religion and technology is based of off. Terran on the otherhand know very little about the void, but are masters of war, and their technology is driven by war, not mastering of thew void.
I don't agree with changing lore based elements for balance reasons, change fungal differently, the current change will make them either useless or overpowered depending on the situation.
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On November 24 2012 15:43 blug wrote: Hellbats could make sense, because when they change forms they may very well expose the person who is actually driving the vehicle (Which in turn is biological).
Okay, so what if the Raven pilot was a retired Ghost or Spectre?
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On November 24 2012 16:18 Crawdad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 15:43 blug wrote: Hellbats could make sense, because when they change forms they may very well expose the person who is actually driving the vehicle (Which in turn is biological).
Okay, so what if the Raven pilot was a retired Ghost or Spectre? Ravens are drones, much like the Predators used by the U.S. military
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On November 24 2012 13:28 AfricanPsycho wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 13:21 hayata2.0 wrote: Sentries are robotic and are psionic. So why not Ravens. Terran don't have access to that kinda psionic technology they are probably thousands of years off. Ravens abilities are also very non-psionicy.
Yeah, except the have Ghosts, which also are psionic.
And to those saying the Raven is a robotic drone so it can't be psionic, well... maybe it's a super-psionic A.I.!
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Yes, let's rape the lore even more because balance demands it!
As a mechanical unit that uses mechanical abilities, Raven being psionic makes just as much sense as fungal not hitting psionics.
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The Raven has neither the lore nor the abilities to be psionic. It shoots missles and deploys drones/turrets. Very similair to the Orbital Command actually.
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On November 24 2012 16:36 CakeSauc3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 13:28 AfricanPsycho wrote:On November 24 2012 13:21 hayata2.0 wrote: Sentries are robotic and are psionic. So why not Ravens. Terran don't have access to that kinda psionic technology they are probably thousands of years off. Ravens abilities are also very non-psionicy. Yeah, except the have Ghosts, which also are psionic. And to those saying the Raven is a robotic drone so it can't be psionic, well... maybe it's a super-psionic A.I.!
You are born a ghost. You're not given psionic powers to be one. They find you and train you once they know you're a ghost. It's impossible to go from standard to ghost.
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Dump the Raven, bring back the Science Vessel.
A proper solution to late game TvZ...
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Having an energy bar is not grounds for a unit being psionic. . . .
If that where the case, banshees, bc's, thors and medvacs would all be psionic.. . .
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It is a Robot putting out Robots, nothing psyonic there. Anyway if it would be fungal immune there would be nothing to stop the seeker missile anymore. Sure they could slow the SM down again and rework it to make up for this. But it wouldn't really change anything in the usability. Why make it easier to use, if it will be made easier to dodge in the same turn. That only would mean someone inferior could dodge your Missile fairly easy as well.
That being said, there is nothing preventing them from adding a passive ability making the Raven immune from attacks from psyonic spells. (feedback fungal etc )
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Its not like you couldn't just make up some bullshit to make it fit.
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On November 24 2012 15:43 blug wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 13:25 Antylamon wrote: Why are Hellbats bio? Throw lore out the window; we want a better game, not better lore. Hellbats could make sense, because when they change forms they may very well expose the person who is actually driving the vehicle (Which in turn is biological). Hellbat pilots don't look particularly more vulnerable than hellion. Having a biological type in one mode and not in the other for no good reason does feel weird, even though you don't revert a change for lore reasons alone. What disturbs me is not the biological subtype as much as the fact the subtype appears or disappear on transformation.
Having an energy bar is not grounds for a unit being psionic. . . .
If that where the case, banshees, bc's, thors and medvacs would all be psionic.. . Funny thought, when you think about it, EMP has no lore reason to work on infestors (they don't have a single electronic part in them) and feedback has no reason to work on banshees or battlecruisers (since there is nothing psionic in them). So overall, I'd say that if ravens ever turn psionic, it won't mean they are actually psionic, it's just that they have some particularities that make them immune to fungal and are modeled as a Psionic subtype in game.
We never objected to high templars being able to feedback phoenixes but not dark templar (who also use psionic powers), so I just don't think we should bother about why fungal growth should or shouldn't affect raven. And the lore does matter to me, a lot.
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Vatican City State431 Posts
The problem with Blizzard is that they get a lot of easy money with WOW and they've become complacent. No more innovation, no good game designers etc. Just look at Diablo 3... Even WOW last expansion is a joke. Kung Fu Panda...How original! In the last 5 years there hasn't been any innovations coming from Blizzard..I don't predict a very bright future for this company.
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