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On December 14 2012 13:55 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I really hope he has thought this through. The professional scene of SC2 is over saturated with more professionals than the it can handle. With the addition of the Kespa pros you can see that other professionals who can't cut it anymore are forced to quit.
SC2/Dota are substantially different games that don't make for a very smooth transition. The main differences are the mechanical requirements of SC2, and the team aspect of Dota. The transition between both games is nothing like transitioning between BW/War3/SC2.
Black is an incredible Dota player, which has a scene that is ready to blow up. As can be seen from SC2 it is important to be a part of this growth from the beginning. If you go to SC2 now and go back to Dota later you will have missed a very important part of the Dota growth. It will be much harder to establish yourself after. Both in terms of gaining fans, as well as getting back onto teams that have by then hopefully established themselves with solid squads.
Likewise I would not advise an SC2 player to try and get into Dota now. Dota being a game where many of the top players have been playing for six years. It is very hard to get into from an SC2 mindset. I've seen plenty of players good at both games, but I've never seen someone be among the best in the world in both.
If he has considered all of this and is following through on what feels right to him, more power to him. I wish Black all the luck in the world.
With all due respect, I don't think you're going to see an explosion in the DoTA 2 community. I suspect it is going to die quietly, solely because it has made the fatal mistake of challenging the market leader without being sufficiently different from said market leader. Yes I know there are details and I know the balancing is different and frankly, DoTA2 is the better game of the two. However to the layman there just isn't enough of a difference.
On the other hand, there are constant small tournaments going on in the Blizzard SC2 scene and it is on the verge of having an expansion released which, coupled with a likely change in business model, is going to result in an explosion of interest in Starcraft 2 ala Brood War.
It makes sense for a player to switch to Starcraft 2 at this time, just before an expansion.
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On December 14 2012 20:01 rasnj wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 19:51 Finnz wrote:People need to stop being so stubborn about the "oh its impossible to switch to sc2 from another game its too hard" blablabla... If Black puts in the time he will get good just like everyone else who started playing starcraft 2. Show some support instead of being like "go back to dota...sc is too hard for you" this is not helping anyone... gl black The point is that without anything indicating that you will do well, then you will likely not. Whenever someone makes a post "Should I quit school to pursue progaming?", then the answer should likely be no because most people will fail. If you were a top BW player or WC3 player, then that drastically improves your odds of doing well in sc2 so it is not as far fetched for a BW or WC3 player saying they will go pro in SC2. However when a dota player says he will go pro in sc2, then the odds are stacked against him. And I don't follow DOTA2, but it seems black was pretty good at it and had a future in the scene, so it seems odd to throw that away for say a 10% chance of being a mid-tier EU pro. (The exact same thing obviously applies when a SC2 player quits to pursue a MOBA) Of course if he doesn't enjoy dota or for some other reason don't want to pursue that road, then it is okay to try, but he better have a plan for if his transition fails. The odds are not against him. The only difference is that the BW/WC3 guys will start at a higher level. which takes likes 2 3 months extra for the dota guy.
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On December 14 2012 12:20 bokchoi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 11:11 AgentW wrote:On December 14 2012 11:05 LuckyFool wrote: switching to sc2 from dota2 is alot harder than going the other way around unfortunately.
Isn't BabyKnight one of the only real Dota->Sc2 players that's had much of any success? SeleCT I believe. Xenocider (pretty high GM) is also a former Dota player. SeleCT was a top player in RTS long before he went to dota. High level amateur/semi-pro in WC3, 2x WCG champion DoW. I wonder how good black is though. Anyone have his ladder account ?
he is mid masters after 2 weeks of playing as Terran, he was semi-pro in WC3, once took a game off Grubby was his biggest achievement
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This is heart-warming! Welcome black.
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so dota2 is dead before coming out
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On December 14 2012 20:45 CoR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 20:36 rabidch wrote:On December 14 2012 19:02 Cinim wrote: Select wasn't really ever a pro in dota - he said he played it at a high level, but he probably just played it while he was wc3 pro or something? He started with wc3 when it came out, until dow was out, after which he said he had a break from progaming until sc2 beta was there, so there isn't really any time he could have been pro in it :p he played for some top NA teams, whatever that counts for since i dont remember anybody sponsoring those teams, but some of those players went on to relative "success" but as i remember way more known for being good in some other RTS like some of the best there, thats quite a difference Yeah, but it's a considerable milestone.
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On December 14 2012 20:46 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 13:55 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I really hope he has thought this through. The professional scene of SC2 is over saturated with more professionals than the it can handle. With the addition of the Kespa pros you can see that other professionals who can't cut it anymore are forced to quit.
SC2/Dota are substantially different games that don't make for a very smooth transition. The main differences are the mechanical requirements of SC2, and the team aspect of Dota. The transition between both games is nothing like transitioning between BW/War3/SC2.
Black is an incredible Dota player, which has a scene that is ready to blow up. As can be seen from SC2 it is important to be a part of this growth from the beginning. If you go to SC2 now and go back to Dota later you will have missed a very important part of the Dota growth. It will be much harder to establish yourself after. Both in terms of gaining fans, as well as getting back onto teams that have by then hopefully established themselves with solid squads.
Likewise I would not advise an SC2 player to try and get into Dota now. Dota being a game where many of the top players have been playing for six years. It is very hard to get into from an SC2 mindset. I've seen plenty of players good at both games, but I've never seen someone be among the best in the world in both.
If he has considered all of this and is following through on what feels right to him, more power to him. I wish Black all the luck in the world. With all due respect, I don't think you're going to see an explosion in the DoTA 2 community. I suspect it is going to die quietly, solely because it has made the fatal mistake of challenging the market leader without being sufficiently different from said market leader. Yes I know there are details and I know the balancing is different and frankly, DoTA2 is the better game of the two. However to the layman there just isn't enough of a difference. On the other hand, there are constant small tournaments going on in the Blizzard SC2 scene and it is on the verge of having an expansion released which, coupled with a likely change in business model, is going to result in an explosion of interest in Starcraft 2 ala Brood War. It makes sense for a player to switch to Starcraft 2 at this time, just before an expansion.
China.
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On December 14 2012 20:49 Cuce wrote: so dota2 is dead before coming out
My sarcasm detector is broken. Someone help?
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Well its gonna be hard, but everything is possible when practice like hell. Good luck to him.
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Lets be serious, Sc2 right now is pretty stagnant and while HOTS may rejuvenate the scene there isn't really any room for new players unless they are able to compete at the absolute top level. Dota 2 is growing fast and has much more room for players in the scene.
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On December 14 2012 12:56 lessQQmorePEWPEW wrote: HE should stick to dota. but i can understand how frustrating it is with team mixups. Don't think black can complain when he refused to practice when they had a team that produced some actual results. He would rather play slenderman than practice with his team.
Good luck to him regardless, but i think his attitude needs to be changed if he wants to produce results. Old mouz lineup wasn't a bad team at all, but no practice started to show and is one of the reasons some team members left the team.
On December 14 2012 20:46 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 13:55 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I really hope he has thought this through. The professional scene of SC2 is over saturated with more professionals than the it can handle. With the addition of the Kespa pros you can see that other professionals who can't cut it anymore are forced to quit.
SC2/Dota are substantially different games that don't make for a very smooth transition. The main differences are the mechanical requirements of SC2, and the team aspect of Dota. The transition between both games is nothing like transitioning between BW/War3/SC2.
Black is an incredible Dota player, which has a scene that is ready to blow up. As can be seen from SC2 it is important to be a part of this growth from the beginning. If you go to SC2 now and go back to Dota later you will have missed a very important part of the Dota growth. It will be much harder to establish yourself after. Both in terms of gaining fans, as well as getting back onto teams that have by then hopefully established themselves with solid squads.
Likewise I would not advise an SC2 player to try and get into Dota now. Dota being a game where many of the top players have been playing for six years. It is very hard to get into from an SC2 mindset. I've seen plenty of players good at both games, but I've never seen someone be among the best in the world in both.
If he has considered all of this and is following through on what feels right to him, more power to him. I wish Black all the luck in the world. With all due respect, I don't think you're going to see an explosion in the DoTA 2 community. I suspect it is going to die quietly, solely because it has made the fatal mistake of challenging the market leader without being sufficiently different from said market leader. Yes I know there are details and I know the balancing is different and frankly, DoTA2 is the better game of the two. However to the layman there just isn't enough of a difference. Yea, i know. DotA is totally a dead game and didn't grow to be huge and get a big competitive scene without any company behind it, DotA2 with a company behind it is totally going to be a quitely dying game. Definitely.
Sorry i just found this post to be so silly.
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On December 14 2012 20:46 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 13:55 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I really hope he has thought this through. The professional scene of SC2 is over saturated with more professionals than the it can handle. With the addition of the Kespa pros you can see that other professionals who can't cut it anymore are forced to quit.
SC2/Dota are substantially different games that don't make for a very smooth transition. The main differences are the mechanical requirements of SC2, and the team aspect of Dota. The transition between both games is nothing like transitioning between BW/War3/SC2.
Black is an incredible Dota player, which has a scene that is ready to blow up. As can be seen from SC2 it is important to be a part of this growth from the beginning. If you go to SC2 now and go back to Dota later you will have missed a very important part of the Dota growth. It will be much harder to establish yourself after. Both in terms of gaining fans, as well as getting back onto teams that have by then hopefully established themselves with solid squads.
Likewise I would not advise an SC2 player to try and get into Dota now. Dota being a game where many of the top players have been playing for six years. It is very hard to get into from an SC2 mindset. I've seen plenty of players good at both games, but I've never seen someone be among the best in the world in both.
If he has considered all of this and is following through on what feels right to him, more power to him. I wish Black all the luck in the world. With all due respect, I don't think you're going to see an explosion in the DoTA 2 community. I suspect it is going to die quietly, solely because it has made the fatal mistake of challenging the market leader without being sufficiently different from said market leader. Yes I know there are details and I know the balancing is different and frankly, DoTA2 is the better game of the two. However to the layman there just isn't enough of a difference. On the other hand, there are constant small tournaments going on in the Blizzard SC2 scene and it is on the verge of having an expansion released which, coupled with a likely change in business model, is going to result in an explosion of interest in Starcraft 2 ala Brood War. It makes sense for a player to switch to Starcraft 2 at this time, just before an expansion.
wtf are you talking about? DotA IS the market leader. also CHINA release of Dota2 soon.
read up about Riots handling of LoL and Valve handling of Dota 2 and you could come to the exactly OPPOSITE conclussion of what your post says.
also: your post sounds like dota2 copied the "market leader" which is nothing but a bad joke leading to flames though possibly it's just trolling.
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On December 14 2012 21:16 Unleashing wrote: Don't think black can complain when he refused to practice when they had a team that produced some actual results. He would rather play slenderman than practice with his team.
This. I would be glad to be proven wrong but I'm not sure if he is willing to train a lot, for a sustained period of time. He never sticked to a team for more than 2-3 months in Dota, played standin for a bunch of others and even switched back and forth between Dota and HoN in the past. He is definetely one of the best european carries and could have made it big if he had been more dedicated to training with a single team instead of changing them constantly. And I find hard to believe he cannot find a good team with his skills.
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On December 14 2012 20:49 Cuce wrote: so dota2 is dead before coming out
One guy switching from dota2 to sc2 = dead game lol.
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On December 14 2012 11:15 Sub40APM wrote: is this more of equivalent of fruitdealer or coca switching to lol from sc2 or more of a destiny switching to lol?
Certainly not the Destiny one. The Destiny switch is switching to an easier game because you have no success in the harder one.
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On December 14 2012 13:55 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: I really hope he has thought this through. The professional scene of SC2 is over saturated with more professionals than the it can handle. With the addition of the Kespa pros you can see that other professionals who can't cut it anymore are forced to quit.
SC2/Dota are substantially different games that don't make for a very smooth transition. The main differences are the mechanical requirements of SC2, and the team aspect of Dota. The transition between both games is nothing like transitioning between BW/War3/SC2.
Black is an incredible Dota player, which has a scene that is ready to blow up. As can be seen from SC2 it is important to be a part of this growth from the beginning. If you go to SC2 now and go back to Dota later you will have missed a very important part of the Dota growth. It will be much harder to establish yourself after. Both in terms of gaining fans, as well as getting back onto teams that have by then hopefully established themselves with solid squads.
Likewise I would not advise an SC2 player to try and get into Dota now. Dota being a game where many of the top players have been playing for six years. It is very hard to get into from an SC2 mindset. I've seen plenty of players good at both games, but I've never seen someone be among the best in the world in both.
If he has considered all of this and is following through on what feels right to him, more power to him. I wish Black all the luck in the world.
I agree with you on this one. I think its certainly possibly to switch from dota to sc2, but right now its quite late to do so. Especially the point about oversaturation of players is sooo true.
I think one of the reason he is switching might be all the problems that a teamgame brings (being so reliant on your teammates, all the drama in teams with players switching...). This is the thing i like so much about SC2 1on1, youre on your own there is noone to blame but yourself - in DotA all the flaming/blaming annoyed me alot (i played alot of dota and was quite decent at it - not a pro though)
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On December 14 2012 18:21 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 16:29 Steveling wrote: Dota is a totally different beast than sc, that's why only like 2 people have played in a high level in both games, bad choise imo, but then he may be a rich guy so.. Like it matters what game you played before or whatever.... if you wanna go pro in a game you can do it with enough practice. he isn't limited now in SC2 just because he played doda. i never get this "logic" rofl....
Except 90% of all money has been won by ex BW pros, yeah.
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On December 14 2012 22:01 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 18:21 rasers wrote:On December 14 2012 16:29 Steveling wrote: Dota is a totally different beast than sc, that's why only like 2 people have played in a high level in both games, bad choise imo, but then he may be a rich guy so.. Like it matters what game you played before or whatever.... if you wanna go pro in a game you can do it with enough practice. he isn't limited now in SC2 just because he played doda. i never get this "logic" rofl.... Except 90% of all money has been won by ex BW pros, yeah. yeah wonder why professionals win vs amateurs.
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