On June 15 2017 12:56 TT1 wrote:
thats all faust
thats all faust
I wish. Someone beat me to it.
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
On June 15 2017 12:56 TT1 wrote: thats all faust I wish. Someone beat me to it. | ||
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6324 Posts
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funnybananaman
United States830 Posts
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LML
Germany1702 Posts
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On June 15 2017 18:05 LML wrote: Scan shouldn't be banned for the reason of being/having been in South Korea. But rather because of his past in big foreign tournaments. Someone who goes to extreme lengths to circumvent rules and to cheat in tournaments where people put a lot of time and practice into competing and organizing shouldn't be part of any further tournaments. And how long ago was this? Personally I think this argument doesn't matter. Scan's cheating times are long past him. Considering how long ago this happened and the fact that he puts more content out there to help the playerbase than a lot of foreign players I believe he has sufficiently redeemed himself (to atleast not get banned from tournaments). IF he would get banned from tournaments it should (in my opinion) happen because a consensus was reached as a result of this discussion about his dominance, not because of his past. | ||
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6324 Posts
On June 15 2017 18:17 TheNewEra wrote: Show nested quote + On June 15 2017 18:05 LML wrote: Scan shouldn't be banned for the reason of being/having been in South Korea. But rather because of his past in big foreign tournaments. Someone who goes to extreme lengths to circumvent rules and to cheat in tournaments where people put a lot of time and practice into competing and organizing shouldn't be part of any further tournaments. And how long ago was this? Personally I think this argument doesn't matter. Scan's cheating times are long past him. Considering how long ago this happened and the fact that he puts more content out there to help the playerbase than the next 5 foreign players combined I believe he has sufficiently redeemed himself (to atleast not get banned from tournaments). IF he would get banned from tournaments it should (in my opinion) happen because a consensus was reached as a result of this discussion about his dominance, not because of his past. What makes u think Scan puts more content than any of us?is the second time you say this and u re telling bullshit. | ||
TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On June 15 2017 18:20 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Show nested quote + On June 15 2017 18:17 TheNewEra wrote: On June 15 2017 18:05 LML wrote: Scan shouldn't be banned for the reason of being/having been in South Korea. But rather because of his past in big foreign tournaments. Someone who goes to extreme lengths to circumvent rules and to cheat in tournaments where people put a lot of time and practice into competing and organizing shouldn't be part of any further tournaments. And how long ago was this? Personally I think this argument doesn't matter. Scan's cheating times are long past him. Considering how long ago this happened and the fact that he puts more content out there to help the playerbase than the next 5 foreign players combined I believe he has sufficiently redeemed himself (to atleast not get banned from tournaments). IF he would get banned from tournaments it should (in my opinion) happen because a consensus was reached as a result of this discussion about his dominance, not because of his past. What makes u think Scan puts more content than any of us?is the second time you say this and u re telling bullshit. Maybe saying more than the next 5 combined was an exagguration, but in the end I believe he puts out more content than the foreign topdogs. Sharing replays, tactics, analysing VoD's on stream, joining other community members to analyse VoD's with them, uploading content on his youtube channel. You will rarely find a foreigner do even 2 of these things. Look the point wasn't to make you guys look bad but that I don't believe Scan should get banned because of his past because in my eyes he has redeemed himself to not get banned for the cheating he did long ago. | ||
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6324 Posts
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trutaCz
Poland686 Posts
On June 15 2017 18:20 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Show nested quote + On June 15 2017 18:17 TheNewEra wrote: On June 15 2017 18:05 LML wrote: Scan shouldn't be banned for the reason of being/having been in South Korea. But rather because of his past in big foreign tournaments. Someone who goes to extreme lengths to circumvent rules and to cheat in tournaments where people put a lot of time and practice into competing and organizing shouldn't be part of any further tournaments. And how long ago was this? Personally I think this argument doesn't matter. Scan's cheating times are long past him. Considering how long ago this happened and the fact that he puts more content out there to help the playerbase than the next 5 foreign players combined I believe he has sufficiently redeemed himself (to atleast not get banned from tournaments). IF he would get banned from tournaments it should (in my opinion) happen because a consensus was reached as a result of this discussion about his dominance, not because of his past. What makes u think Scan puts more content than any of us?is the second time you say this and u re telling bullshit. It doesnt make sense to talk to internet trolls like this guy. We explain things, they just spam their nosense. I believe he is one of these kids from Scan's stream, but afraid to start bitching and bm here beacauae of possibiity to get banned, and his world where he shares his trolling will not exist anymore. | ||
Ryzel
United States474 Posts
On June 15 2017 18:48 trutaCz wrote: Show nested quote + On June 15 2017 18:20 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: On June 15 2017 18:17 TheNewEra wrote: On June 15 2017 18:05 LML wrote: Scan shouldn't be banned for the reason of being/having been in South Korea. But rather because of his past in big foreign tournaments. Someone who goes to extreme lengths to circumvent rules and to cheat in tournaments where people put a lot of time and practice into competing and organizing shouldn't be part of any further tournaments. And how long ago was this? Personally I think this argument doesn't matter. Scan's cheating times are long past him. Considering how long ago this happened and the fact that he puts more content out there to help the playerbase than the next 5 foreign players combined I believe he has sufficiently redeemed himself (to atleast not get banned from tournaments). IF he would get banned from tournaments it should (in my opinion) happen because a consensus was reached as a result of this discussion about his dominance, not because of his past. What makes u think Scan puts more content than any of us?is the second time you say this and u re telling bullshit. It doesnt make sense to talk to internet trolls like this guy. We explain things, they just spam their nosense. I believe he is one of these kids from Scan's stream, but afraid to start bitching and bm here beacauae of possibiity to get banned, and his world where he shares his trolling will not exist anymore. This response was completely uncalled for, and clearly struck a nerve. The guy didn't say a single negative thing about either of you. He was simply explaining how he viewed the situation; if you disagree with his assessment then maybe you can demonstrate how he's false by providing evidence that shows otherwise? Perhaps with links to your YouTube channels or to a YouTube video where you analyze a replay? He's not alone in thinking Scan has been more helpful to the community then other foreigners, and dismissing his view in this manner kinda' makes it look like you don't give a shit. | ||
TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On June 15 2017 19:53 Ryzel wrote: Show nested quote + On June 15 2017 18:48 trutaCz wrote: On June 15 2017 18:20 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: On June 15 2017 18:17 TheNewEra wrote: On June 15 2017 18:05 LML wrote: Scan shouldn't be banned for the reason of being/having been in South Korea. But rather because of his past in big foreign tournaments. Someone who goes to extreme lengths to circumvent rules and to cheat in tournaments where people put a lot of time and practice into competing and organizing shouldn't be part of any further tournaments. And how long ago was this? Personally I think this argument doesn't matter. Scan's cheating times are long past him. Considering how long ago this happened and the fact that he puts more content out there to help the playerbase than the next 5 foreign players combined I believe he has sufficiently redeemed himself (to atleast not get banned from tournaments). IF he would get banned from tournaments it should (in my opinion) happen because a consensus was reached as a result of this discussion about his dominance, not because of his past. What makes u think Scan puts more content than any of us?is the second time you say this and u re telling bullshit. It doesnt make sense to talk to internet trolls like this guy. We explain things, they just spam their nosense. I believe he is one of these kids from Scan's stream, but afraid to start bitching and bm here beacauae of possibiity to get banned, and his world where he shares his trolling will not exist anymore. This response was completely uncalled for, and clearly struck a nerve. The guy didn't say a single negative thing about either of you. He was simply explaining how he viewed the situation; if you disagree with his assessment then maybe you can demonstrate how he's false by providing evidence that shows otherwise? He's not alone in thinking Scan has been more helpful to the community then other foreigners, and dismissing his view in this manner kinda' makes it look like you don't give a shit. My comment was worded dumbly and I see why they would feel attacked. So I changed my original post. The truth is, I didn't even want to talk about who puts out more content, I just wanted to say that in my eyes Scan has redeemed himself enough, that he atleast shouldn't be banned because of his past anymore. I'm amazed though, that trutaCz can learn so much about my life just because of a post which I worded wrongly and that he felt the need to jump into this with guns blazing after I've already changed my original post. Thank you for defending me though Nice gesture. | ||
LML
Germany1702 Posts
In the end, it's no competition. We should be happy that there are people who are spending their free time creating things we can enjoy. May it be a youtube video analyzing a game, someone hosting a tournament, a new tool or server being coded, or the guys who spend hours writing articles about events such as ASL. After all, that's what makes a community thrive. | ||
DanteStyle55
14 Posts
On June 15 2017 05:39 Bonyth wrote: I think if every 2nd tournament was open to all players, there would be no complaints nor hatred. I should specify that Im talking about tours that happen every given period of time. I'm not recommanding anything yet if a one big tour took place. That is my solution / sugestion. Let's hear others. Why don't you or anyone else hold a tournament of ur own for non koreans. You don't even need to have a prizepool IMO. As all of you said no foreigner is playing bw 24/7 to make money from it. This thread wouldnt even exist if there were 5-6 tournaments and half of them allowed koreans, just make some more tournaments without koreans to see who is the best foreigner or which foreigner can dominate the longest. IMO forcing stuff upon the few people willing to put effort into BW in 2017 is just so BM. You should be happy they do this stuff, if i were them i'd quit and you'd have nothing. I dont know about you guys but i was raised with the mentality of: if someone is offering something for free, you dont complain. this thread should be locked imo :/ | ||
GrV
6 Posts
Wanting to ban people based on their race, besides the obviously morally wrong notions behind it also is practically same as when Koreans on Fish refuse to play foreigners. If people want to ban Koreans so they wouldn't have to play someone who they think are stronger than them and Koreans want to ban foreigners so they wouldn't have to play someone who they think are weaker than them - then there will never have a fully established bridge between foreigners and Koreans communities. Foreigners have a bad rep in general as far as BW goes - because even in general gaming, majority differentiates between "fun" and "competitive" as two very separate entities. Koreans on the other hand do not think of playing in a clearly wrong fashion and not improving to be acceptable as long as they enjoy it - as they're not encouraged or justified to play wrong to begin with, while we encourage any kind of play as long as people enjoy what they do. That is the real problem, not that we can't play for 10 hours a day, majority of Koreans don't play 10 hours a day either, yet they are still far ahead. If we ever want to compete with Koreans, in any eSports, not just BW - we should drop that attitude to begin with and try to establish a bridge between foreigners and Koreans communities for future players, not destroy what little we have as it is. | ||
Bonyth
Poland499 Posts
On June 15 2017 20:14 DanteStyle55 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 15 2017 05:39 Bonyth wrote: I think if every 2nd tournament was open to all players, there would be no complaints nor hatred. I should specify that Im talking about tours that happen every given period of time. I'm not recommanding anything yet if a one big tour took place. That is my solution / sugestion. Let's hear others. Why don't you or anyone else hold a tournament of ur own for non koreans. You don't even need to have a prizepool IMO. As all of you said no foreigner is playing bw 24/7 to make money from it. This thread wouldnt even exist if there were 5-6 tournaments and half of them allowed koreans, just make some more tournaments without koreans to see who is the best foreigner or which foreigner can dominate the longest. IMO forcing stuff upon the few people willing to put effort into BW in 2017 is just so BM. You should be happy they do this stuff, if i were them i'd quit and you'd have nothing. I dont know about you guys but i was raised with the mentality of: if someone is offering something for free, you dont complain. this thread should be locked imo :/ That's why I called it a SUGGESTION. I'm not forcing and it's not possible to force anyone's hand. I am happy they to stuff like this but what u don't understand is that there WILL BE people with hatred towards Scan infinite money apetite. Some people don't approve of his approach, that's why there is so much hatred towards him and organizers for allowing for such a thing to happen. Yes, these are organizers money, and he can do whatever he want with them. BUT if he does anything he wants, not caring about these people opinion, he needs to be prepared to hear some mean words at his adress. The ideas we proposed are meant to protect weaker psychically organizers from the internet's hatred. If they are good on their own, so be it. If they have another plan for their tournaments, and from the looks of it Schamtoo may have one, so be it. Border line - our ideas are just a suggestion, not a set of rules that every organizer has to obey. I don't host a tournament because I have no money for it. As for no-prizepool tournaments, we have Iccup tournaments and occasionaly few others. | ||
Cele
Germany4012 Posts
On June 15 2017 18:05 LML wrote: Scan shouldn't be banned for the reason of being/having been in South Korea. But rather because of his past in big foreign tournaments. Someone who goes to extreme lengths to circumvent rules and to cheat in tournaments where people put a lot of time and practice into competing and organizing shouldn't be part of any further tournaments. let's get TT1, Haypro, Doty and others outa here as well? Let bygones be bygones. All those i mentioned have been cheating on the competition and are valuable members of our community now. | ||
LML
Germany1702 Posts
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Cele
Germany4012 Posts
On June 15 2017 20:14 DanteStyle55 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 15 2017 05:39 Bonyth wrote: I think if every 2nd tournament was open to all players, there would be no complaints nor hatred. I should specify that Im talking about tours that happen every given period of time. I'm not recommanding anything yet if a one big tour took place. That is my solution / sugestion. Let's hear others. Why don't you or anyone else hold a tournament of ur own for non koreans. You don't even need to have a prizepool IMO. As all of you said no foreigner is playing bw 24/7 to make money from it. This thread wouldnt even exist if there were 5-6 tournaments and half of them allowed koreans, just make some more tournaments without koreans to see who is the best foreigner or which foreigner can dominate the longest. IMO forcing stuff upon the few people willing to put effort into BW in 2017 is just so BM. You should be happy they do this stuff, if i were them i'd quit and you'd have nothing. I dont know about you guys but i was raised with the mentality of: if someone is offering something for free, you dont complain. this thread should be locked imo :/ i was a big advocate for the idea to let Scan play in this sort of tour from point onwards where it came up in TLC's. But just repeating time and time again that "a TO can do whatever he wants with his money" is pointless. We know this. Bonyth does. It's self-explanatory. Then, these tours have been going worse and worse; of course there are trolls who are just salty about Scan, but there's also very reasonable and sound arguments to have it another way. Constructive discussion is a good thing. | ||
Cele
Germany4012 Posts
On June 15 2017 21:40 LML wrote: Pretty sure they received temporary bans due to first offense, as opposed to Scan who received a permanent ban due to repeated offense (while being blacklisted). TSL 2 Bannings "for 12 months and TSL 3" | ||
arb
Noobville17915 Posts
On June 15 2017 21:48 Cele wrote: Show nested quote + On June 15 2017 21:40 LML wrote: Pretty sure they received temporary bans due to first offense, as opposed to Scan who received a permanent ban due to repeated offense (while being blacklisted). TSL 2 Bannings "for 12 months and TSL 3" Win trading if i remember correctly? Or something to that effect, either way that was 8 years ago. I dont think cheating is as big of an issue now that you can like impose restrictions such as streaming(with a delay ofc) on whoever is in question | ||
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