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I'm personally not a fan of making changes for the sake of it, but i think LotV is really not in a good spot design wise, so i'm glad they consider to release another major patch.
I hope this time around with changes that make sense instead of stuff like blink DT's.
Edit:
Official details will be revealed tomorrow.
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And look how that turned out.
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Simply put, Carriers are superpowered.
Toss needs some way to relinquish the necessity of Pylon OC; a new unit cost efficient enough to sustain it through the early game. Target-firing is always satisfying.
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Was really hoping for something like this, since this exact day from last year (August 16, 2016) was when the preview for patch 3.8 was released. Looks like we'll know more about it during Gamescom. Exciteddddddddd
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Make Swarmhosts (even) great(er) again
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I am ready for Dark Templar to get an ability like Brood War's medic blind ability that can be used on buildings like spore crawlers to make their detection only 1 range.
Research time 500 seconds.
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On August 16 2017 13:29 WeddingEpisode wrote: Simply put, Carriers are superpowered.
Toss needs some way to relinquish the necessity of Pylon OC; a new unit cost efficient enough to sustain it through the early game. Target-firing is always satisfying.
Agree, no new units though, they just bring more problems. Protoss is in a really weird place design wise, in a perfect world we would get rid of the Warp Gate mechanic in it's entirety and balance Gateway units around not needing Warp Gate to be good, it's a mechanic that has been nothing but a balance and design nightmare for the race.
Oh and of course, nerf the Carrier which is broken, and redesign the Disruptor which at this point is probably the worst designed unit in SC2.
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I think LotV is in an excellent spot, I would change only very minor things (and I'm not the one to say which ones, since I'm quite the noob).
I would be happy with some very slight changes to address some of the minor problems with some compositions, but I would also be excited by some big changes (like last year!) to bring some fresh air honestly I kind of trust Blizzard on this
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My only hope for this is:
Address all the rampant problems since launch and since patch 3.8 (sh patch):
-nerf swarmhosts severely -nerf all air units across the board, especially carriers, ravens, and vipers -carrier, swarmhost, raven all simultaenous nerfs so these can't simply be massed late game -mech viability aka fixing mech anti-air by adding more damage to thor AA, viking from factory...something...anything -address economy? Bring back 1500 patches like brood war/Heart of the Swarm/Wings of Liberty. -remove liberator range upgrade from the game -address ravager all-ins and hydralisk/baneling combat shields that were recently added -add high ground advantage? like in Brood war? Would be interesting -invulnerable nydus worm changed back please -protoss design change or unit tweaks. Protoss's current identity is either mass adepts or carriers for the most part
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The game is in an a good spot overall but needs some adjustments.
1. Swarm Hosts should cost more resources. 2. Carriers should be weaker. Either decrease their DPS, lower their hitpoints or decrease the interceptors attack priority. 3. Ravens are too supply efficient.
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"This year.... we're bringing back entomb for the oracles BUT we're increasing their build time"
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It would be nice if they make the game less frustrating.
balance aside widow mines+medivac boost combo, liberators, and oracles (any completely risk free harrass) are all super frustrating.
removing liberator range is a good start but honestly, removing the unit would be better. The game never needed flying siege tanks to begin with that ignore terrain, have tons of health, can one shot worker, and just fly away when units come to defend.
yes, I am salty I lost on ladder today to people abusing liberators, but it's so annoying. if they could make one big change to the game, I would love for it to be this.
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.. And now we revert them. Proudly (ahem) presenting; Starcraft II Classic.
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On August 16 2017 15:22 plogamer wrote: .. And now we revert them. Proudly (ahem) presenting; Starcraft II Classic. WoL Remastered.
Launch Event
Mvp vs Idra
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How about finally adressing the CPU and FPS problems? I think that would be best "feature" currently.
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I think they were on the right track with the last big update. Now they should fix some of the other issues and the things that didn't quite work as intended (mech TvP). I'd also like to see less power with the air units.
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I would like to see the strength of hydra bane and carriers addressed. I think that these create problems in the zvp matchup that realy limit the potential for varied, interesting and strategic gameplay. A change to swarmhosts would also be a move in the right direction.
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Making big changes for the sake of making big changes is bad, so I hope it's at least somewhat well thought out.
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On August 16 2017 15:22 plogamer wrote: .. And now we revert them. Proudly (ahem) presenting; Starcraft II Classic.
Still a better love story than Twilight.
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I don't feel like the game needs major changes balance wise, but there is a lot of things that can be done in the name of fun rather than balance, will be interesting to see what direction David Kim 2.0 takes.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51320 Posts
On August 16 2017 15:27 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 15:22 plogamer wrote: .. And now we revert them. Proudly (ahem) presenting; Starcraft II Classic. WoL Remastered. Launch Event Mvp vs Idra Oh god i am not ready for that!
Still this could be good, i wonder what they have in store, i would agree that this probably will be announced at games con right?
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On August 16 2017 15:27 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 15:22 plogamer wrote: .. And now we revert them. Proudly (ahem) presenting; Starcraft II Classic. WoL Remastered. Launch Event Mvp vs Idra
MVP drops out, Alive takes his place.
The game starts...
"u sixpoll?" - aLive
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beside design/balance they should change the contrast of the colors too. D2, SC1 and WC3: heroes & units are wearing dark clothes and ground/terrain too. daylight is light. D3 and sc2 do the opposite. light clothes/terrain and daylight is not light (enough).
edit: this is the reason I fínd sc2 and d3 have very pale colors.
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how about they don't because we aren;t fuckiong dota
e: like holy shit for the first time in ages the game seems balanced between all 3 races and they are like
"WOW CHANGES ARE COOL CUZ MOBAS DO IT" and it's like they don't even fucking realize that in moba a player doesn't play 1 or 2 heroes their entire career
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On August 16 2017 16:11 Elentos wrote: Making big changes for the sake of making big changes is bad, so I hope it's at least somewhat well thought out. Agree. Let's hope.
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i like where sc2 is at right now. i really hope these are just small balance changes coming
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On August 16 2017 17:51 Ej_ wrote: how about they don't because we aren;t fuckiong dota
e: like holy shit for the first time in ages the game seems balanced between all 3 races and they are like
"WOW CHANGES ARE COOL CUZ MOBAS DO IT" and it's like they don't even fucking realize that in moba a player doesn't play or 2 heroes their entire career Agree with this as well.
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But... but MOBAS are so popular, it surely has to do with their frequent balancing to keep the game fresh, right?
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They will show it in blizzcon.I want an completely new design for protoss.
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On August 16 2017 15:27 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 15:22 plogamer wrote: .. And now we revert them. Proudly (ahem) presenting; Starcraft II Classic. WoL Remastered. Launch Event Mvp vs Idra
As a terran, my favorite SC2 era was the end of WoL: pure mech, pure bio and marine tank were pretty much viable in both TvZ and TvT, Protoss had less gimmicky stuff, it's the time period I enjoyed most playing, so I surely wouldn't mind getting back to it !
As for an Mvp and Idra game, imagine the hype... :-O
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On August 16 2017 18:05 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 17:51 Ej_ wrote: how about they don't because we aren;t fuckiong dota
e: like holy shit for the first time in ages the game seems balanced between all 3 races and they are like
"WOW CHANGES ARE COOL CUZ MOBAS DO IT" and it's like they don't even fucking realize that in moba a player doesn't play or 2 heroes their entire career Agree with this as well. Disagree with this.
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On August 16 2017 15:27 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 15:22 plogamer wrote: .. And now we revert them. Proudly (ahem) presenting; Starcraft II Classic. WoL Remastered. Launch Event Mvp vs Idra
As a terran, my favorite SC2 era was the end of WoL (just before the queen patch/Broodfestor nightmare): pure mech, pure bio and marine tank were pretty much viable in both TvZ and TvT, Protoss had less gimmicky stuff. It's the time period I enjoyed most playing, so I surely wouldn't mind getting back to it !
As for an Mvp and Idra game, imagine the hype... :-O
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On August 16 2017 18:39 LoneYoShi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 15:27 FataLe wrote:On August 16 2017 15:22 plogamer wrote: .. And now we revert them. Proudly (ahem) presenting; Starcraft II Classic. WoL Remastered. Launch Event Mvp vs Idra As a terran, my favorite SC2 era was the end of WoL: pure mech, pure bio and marine tank were pretty much viable in both TvZ and TvT, Protoss had less gimmicky stuff, it's the time period I enjoyed most playing, so I surely wouldn't mind getting back to it ! As for an Mvp and Idra game, imagine the hype... :-O i really like the state of Terran right now. its great. i'd prefer Air had a bit less power and Ground had a bit more power. i like all 6 matchups and the 3 mirrors are as interesting as they've ever been. i hope they only do minor changes to the game.
On August 16 2017 13:32 Railgan wrote: Make Swarmhosts (even) great(er) again "The Business Of the Zerg Swarm is Swarm Hosts", Ronald Reagan, 1980 Inauguration speech.
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The balance is pretty good but I still want more refinement and redesign for my subjective fun. I am backing this.
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Carriers are insane in SC2.
I was watching a Starcraft Remastered TvP tour and the Protoss at some point went carriers. Yeah they were strong and doing what they were supposed to do but the dps was reasonable. Not killing everything in a blink of an eye.
Swarm Hosts, Ravens, Cyclone anti-air (lol), all need a redesigning. Also a slight nerf to ravagers.
Also... just a personal preference but I much prefer the old economy.
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I hate making changes for the sake of making changes and hope they just focus on doing things that are improving the game like: -remove liberator range -nerf swarmhosts -nerf ravens -nerf revelation -nerf carriers?
other than that the game is in a good spot and there shouldn't be big changes just because of "WWAHAA WHE SHAEK THE GAEM UP CAUZ IT SO COOOOOOOOOOOL HUAHAUHUA!" this isn't LoL.
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On August 16 2017 19:22 Charoisaur wrote: I hate making changes for the sake of making changes and hope they just focus on doing things that are improving the game like: -remove liberator range -nerf swarmhosts -nerf ravens -nerf revelation -nerf carriers?
other than that the game is in a good spot and there shouldn't be big changes just because of "WWAHAA WHE SHAEK THE GAEM UP CAUZ IT SO COOOOOOOOOOOL HUAHAUHUA!" this isn't LoL.
Oh yeah revelation needs nerf asap lol. its insane for what it costs and does
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Weee, hope. Hope for everyone! You have some hope and you have some hope.
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Wow, people are actually gaining clarity. "We are not LoL, we are not Dota", they say. The same fucking thing i've been saying for ages in these threads before and after every major patch and was always bashed for that. Fuck changes.
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Is it just me or has SC2 gone through a lot of big changes during it's 7 years? Obviously the game was divided into three, which gave them opportunities to make big changes with each expansion, but there's been some major changes, at least with LotV.
I never followed SC1, but did it have major changes similar to what we see in SC2?
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and pls delete many datas in sc2 order. why 32,9GB now? 50GB after this major patch? Its big a number if you have a SSD.
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On August 16 2017 19:52 Zephyp wrote: Is it just me or has SC2 gone through a lot of big changes during it's 7 years? Obviously the game was divided into three, which gave them opportunities to make big changes with each expansion, but there's been some major changes, at least with LotV.
I never followed SC1, but did it have major changes similar to what we see in SC2?
check here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Patches_1.01-1.07 game released in 1998 balance changes in patch 1.05 in 1999 balance changes in patch 1.08 in 2001
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On the table of areas I think could use some adjustment:
Hydralisk Baneling vs Protoss: This appears to be a counter strategy to a very common build from Protoss involving mass Adepts, which brings me to my next point.
Adepts: It's impossible to ignore at this point. Adepts dominate basically EVERY match up. Why?! What would it take to reorganize Protoss so that they are not so Adept dependent? Maybe Blizz has an answer because Adepts are really the only answer right now for:
Standard Terran vs Protoss with everything else being equal TvP right now is very similar to what it was in WoL except Adepts dominate the early and Midgame and Liberators dominate the late game. Protoss midgame has gotten considerably weaker if they DON'T use adepts, since Collosus has been greatly nerfed and the nerfs to Tempests late game make them a nonviable answer for Liberators in the late game.
The Return of Infestor/Broodlord This is just theorycraft right now, but Blizz can't be happy that in two of the 3 match ups, the epitome of late game revolves around Infestors and Broodlords. This composition nearly killed the game at the height of its popularity, so there's a lot of incentive for Blizz to make sure that this comp doesn't dominate the game the way it did a few years ago.
Those are my thoughts.
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On August 16 2017 19:52 Zephyp wrote: Is it just me or has SC2 gone through a lot of big changes during it's 7 years? Obviously the game was divided into three, which gave them opportunities to make big changes with each expansion, but there's been some major changes, at least with LotV.
I never followed SC1, but did it have major changes similar to what we see in SC2? Last balance patch for brood war was in 1999.
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On August 16 2017 20:38 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 19:52 Zephyp wrote: Is it just me or has SC2 gone through a lot of big changes during it's 7 years? Obviously the game was divided into three, which gave them opportunities to make big changes with each expansion, but there's been some major changes, at least with LotV.
I never followed SC1, but did it have major changes similar to what we see in SC2? Last balance patch for brood war was in 1999.
No, 2001.
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On August 16 2017 18:56 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 18:39 LoneYoShi wrote:On August 16 2017 15:27 FataLe wrote:On August 16 2017 15:22 plogamer wrote: .. And now we revert them. Proudly (ahem) presenting; Starcraft II Classic. WoL Remastered. Launch Event Mvp vs Idra As a terran, my favorite SC2 era was the end of WoL: pure mech, pure bio and marine tank were pretty much viable in both TvZ and TvT, Protoss had less gimmicky stuff, it's the time period I enjoyed most playing, so I surely wouldn't mind getting back to it ! As for an Mvp and Idra game, imagine the hype... :-O i really like the state of Terran right now. its great. i'd prefer Air had a bit less power and Ground had a bit more power. i like all 6 matchups and the 3 mirrors are as interesting as they've ever been. i hope they only do minor changes to the game. Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 13:32 Railgan wrote: Make Swarmhosts (even) great(er) again "The Business Of the Zerg Swarm is Swarm Hosts", Ronald Reagan, 1980 Inauguration speech.
Except TvT isn't as good as it has been in the previous expansions, definitely better without Tankivacs and not mass Reaper every game, but not on par with the glory days.
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On August 16 2017 20:41 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 20:38 Ej_ wrote:On August 16 2017 19:52 Zephyp wrote: Is it just me or has SC2 gone through a lot of big changes during it's 7 years? Obviously the game was divided into three, which gave them opportunities to make big changes with each expansion, but there's been some major changes, at least with LotV.
I never followed SC1, but did it have major changes similar to what we see in SC2? Last balance patch for brood war was in 1999. No, 2001. its funny how people think Blizzard hatched SC1 on March 31st 1998 in 100% perfect condition. then, in the first week of December in 1998 Blizzard introduced 3 balance patches in 7 days and Brood War was tuned to perfection in a week ... no bugs, no exploits, BNet working great. Everyone "just knew" the game was perfect. No debates. nothing. just perfection.
when Brood War was released i recall having to make up special "house rules" about DTs to keep the game balanced during 2v2s at the local LAN/Internet Gaming Zoo... i mean.. Cafe. We were not a violent gang of shoplifting vandals.. nope ... we were perfect teenagers experiencing the joy of video games while sipping $5 Iced Lattes and politely congratulating our victorious opponents for a game well played.
On August 16 2017 20:42 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 18:56 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 16 2017 18:39 LoneYoShi wrote:On August 16 2017 15:27 FataLe wrote:On August 16 2017 15:22 plogamer wrote: .. And now we revert them. Proudly (ahem) presenting; Starcraft II Classic. WoL Remastered. Launch Event Mvp vs Idra As a terran, my favorite SC2 era was the end of WoL: pure mech, pure bio and marine tank were pretty much viable in both TvZ and TvT, Protoss had less gimmicky stuff, it's the time period I enjoyed most playing, so I surely wouldn't mind getting back to it ! As for an Mvp and Idra game, imagine the hype... :-O i really like the state of Terran right now. its great. i'd prefer Air had a bit less power and Ground had a bit more power. i like all 6 matchups and the 3 mirrors are as interesting as they've ever been. i hope they only do minor changes to the game. On August 16 2017 13:32 Railgan wrote: Make Swarmhosts (even) great(er) again "The Business Of the Zerg Swarm is Swarm Hosts", Ronald Reagan, 1980 Inauguration speech. Except TvT isn't as good as it has been in the previous expansions, definitely better without Tankivacs and not mass Reaper every game, but not on par with the glory days. i think TvT has always been very good and right now its very close to being as good as the glory days. MAYBE, a touch too much air play in TvT.
in general, there is a slight bit too much air play in the entirety of the game. However, this is such a nit-picky point for me ... i'm afraid they'll FUBAR the entire game while trying to adjust it for 5% or 10% less air play.
just my subjective $0.02.
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On August 16 2017 20:41 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 20:38 Ej_ wrote:On August 16 2017 19:52 Zephyp wrote: Is it just me or has SC2 gone through a lot of big changes during it's 7 years? Obviously the game was divided into three, which gave them opportunities to make big changes with each expansion, but there's been some major changes, at least with LotV.
I never followed SC1, but did it have major changes similar to what we see in SC2? Last balance patch for brood war was in 1999. No, 2001. That is true, my bad.
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On August 16 2017 21:07 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 20:41 207aicila wrote:On August 16 2017 20:38 Ej_ wrote:On August 16 2017 19:52 Zephyp wrote: Is it just me or has SC2 gone through a lot of big changes during it's 7 years? Obviously the game was divided into three, which gave them opportunities to make big changes with each expansion, but there's been some major changes, at least with LotV.
I never followed SC1, but did it have major changes similar to what we see in SC2? Last balance patch for brood war was in 1999. No, 2001. That is true, my bad.
I remember this strongly because I was still on 1.07 for whatever reason and posting on a forum at the time and some guy was like "wtf are you talking about they nerfed spawning pool cost to 200 minerals" (from 150). Good day that was.
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Let's make predictions? I predict they will remove Swarm Host gas cost and increase Locust HP/Damage. Also, Carriers won't require a Fleet Bacon anymore and Interceptors will cost 5 minerals. Cyclone lock-on won't be able to lock on Anti-air units anymore. It will be there just for show. Noone will notice the difference.
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On August 16 2017 21:10 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 21:07 Ej_ wrote:On August 16 2017 20:41 207aicila wrote:On August 16 2017 20:38 Ej_ wrote:On August 16 2017 19:52 Zephyp wrote: Is it just me or has SC2 gone through a lot of big changes during it's 7 years? Obviously the game was divided into three, which gave them opportunities to make big changes with each expansion, but there's been some major changes, at least with LotV.
I never followed SC1, but did it have major changes similar to what we see in SC2? Last balance patch for brood war was in 1999. No, 2001. That is true, my bad. I remember this strongly because I was still on 1.07 for whatever reason and posting on a forum at the time and some guy was like "wtf are you talking about they nerfed spawning pool cost to 200 minerals" (from 150). Good day that was.
everyone remembers spawning pool cost increase, but no one remembers lurker aspect cost increase that also changed quite a lot. On my very much noob level at that time, fending off 4lurker rush as a terran was a nightmare. Took a while to learn to micro those marines properly.
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On August 16 2017 20:33 Vindicare605 wrote: Adepts: It's impossible to ignore at this point. Adepts dominate basically EVERY match up. Why?! What would it take to reorganize Protoss so that they are not so Adept dependent? Maybe Blizz has an answer because Adepts are really the only answer right now for What are you talking about? Adepts dominate who? what? It's a complete trash of a unit, we barely see outside of early harass in pvz (almost never tbh) and allins vs greedy zergs (sometimes). Even in TvP people are just switching to zealot/stalker with SG openings right away. Do i even need to mention PvP? Adepts where nerfed into oblivion since lotv release, it is the WORST unit in protoss arsenal along side with disruptor and stalker.
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On August 16 2017 21:16 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 21:10 207aicila wrote:On August 16 2017 21:07 Ej_ wrote:On August 16 2017 20:41 207aicila wrote:On August 16 2017 20:38 Ej_ wrote:On August 16 2017 19:52 Zephyp wrote: Is it just me or has SC2 gone through a lot of big changes during it's 7 years? Obviously the game was divided into three, which gave them opportunities to make big changes with each expansion, but there's been some major changes, at least with LotV.
I never followed SC1, but did it have major changes similar to what we see in SC2? Last balance patch for brood war was in 1999. No, 2001. That is true, my bad. I remember this strongly because I was still on 1.07 for whatever reason and posting on a forum at the time and some guy was like "wtf are you talking about they nerfed spawning pool cost to 200 minerals" (from 150). Good day that was. everyone remembers spawning pool cost increase, but no one remembers lurker aspect cost increase that also changed quite a lot. On my very much noob level at that time, fending off 4lurker rush as a terran was a nightmare. Took a while to learn to micro those marines properly.
Yeah 1.08 changed a lot of things, but that's probably one of the biggest. I agree the lurker thing ended up being a pretty big deal too, but let's not forget that was still the age of ling rushes at our pleb level. :D
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On August 16 2017 21:12 ihatevideogames wrote: Let's make predictions? I predict they will remove Swarm Host gas cost and increase Locust HP/Damage. Also, Carriers won't require a Fleet Bacon anymore and Interceptors will cost 5 minerals. Cyclone lock-on won't be able to lock on Anti-air units anymore. It will be there just for show. Noone will notice the difference. i predict Blizzard will never name who the real head of the multiplayer team is because they are tired of baseless personal attacks.
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On August 16 2017 13:27 SiaBBo wrote: And look how that turned out.
All of my starcraft buddies kind of faded out after 3.8, including me. We still play, just kinda isn't as fun as it was before.
Hopefully this iteration goes better. I'm not even sure *what* I don't like about it now - it's not like it's radically different.
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On August 16 2017 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 21:12 ihatevideogames wrote: Let's make predictions? I predict they will remove Swarm Host gas cost and increase Locust HP/Damage. Also, Carriers won't require a Fleet Bacon anymore and Interceptors will cost 5 minerals. Cyclone lock-on won't be able to lock on Anti-air units anymore. It will be there just for show. Noone will notice the difference. i predict Blizzard will never name who the real head of the multiplayer team is because they are tired of baseless personal attacks. Mostly justified ones.
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On August 16 2017 19:18 Psychobabas wrote: Carriers are insane in SC2.
I was watching a Starcraft Remastered TvP tour and the Protoss at some point went carriers. Yeah they were strong and doing what they were supposed to do but the dps was reasonable. Not killing everything in a blink of an eye.
Swarm Hosts, Ravens, Cyclone anti-air (lol), all need a redesigning. Also a slight nerf to ravagers.
Also... just a personal preference but I much prefer the old economy.
i couldn't have said it better.
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On August 16 2017 21:49 ihatevideogames wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 16 2017 21:12 ihatevideogames wrote: Let's make predictions? I predict they will remove Swarm Host gas cost and increase Locust HP/Damage. Also, Carriers won't require a Fleet Bacon anymore and Interceptors will cost 5 minerals. Cyclone lock-on won't be able to lock on Anti-air units anymore. It will be there just for show. Noone will notice the difference. i predict Blizzard will never name who the real head of the multiplayer team is because they are tired of baseless personal attacks. Mostly justified ones. nah, uncle mike knows how to identify, hire, nurture and develop top notch game design talent. we`re lucky uncle mike can talk ATVI into continuing to invest in RTS while games like Overwatch smash SC`s 18+ years of revenue in 10 months
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On August 16 2017 21:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 21:49 ihatevideogames wrote:On August 16 2017 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 16 2017 21:12 ihatevideogames wrote: Let's make predictions? I predict they will remove Swarm Host gas cost and increase Locust HP/Damage. Also, Carriers won't require a Fleet Bacon anymore and Interceptors will cost 5 minerals. Cyclone lock-on won't be able to lock on Anti-air units anymore. It will be there just for show. Noone will notice the difference. i predict Blizzard will never name who the real head of the multiplayer team is because they are tired of baseless personal attacks. Mostly justified ones. nah, uncle mike knows how to identify, hire, nurture and develop top notch game design talent. we`re lucky uncle mike can talk ATVI into continuing to invest in RTS while games like Overwatch smash SC`s 18+ years of revenue in 10 months I'd make a point about how that 'talent' is the reason why the game is such in a low point, but I'm sure there's gonna be 50 people coming in and saying 'it's those damn MOBAS!!1111', Blizzard can do no wrong!!!111'
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Finland855 Posts
In a perfect world they'd add searfaring units like in WC2.
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On August 16 2017 21:58 ihatevideogames wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 21:53 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 16 2017 21:49 ihatevideogames wrote:On August 16 2017 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 16 2017 21:12 ihatevideogames wrote: Let's make predictions? I predict they will remove Swarm Host gas cost and increase Locust HP/Damage. Also, Carriers won't require a Fleet Bacon anymore and Interceptors will cost 5 minerals. Cyclone lock-on won't be able to lock on Anti-air units anymore. It will be there just for show. Noone will notice the difference. i predict Blizzard will never name who the real head of the multiplayer team is because they are tired of baseless personal attacks. Mostly justified ones. nah, uncle mike knows how to identify, hire, nurture and develop top notch game design talent. we`re lucky uncle mike can talk ATVI into continuing to invest in RTS while games like Overwatch smash SC`s 18+ years of revenue in 10 months I'd make a point about how that 'talent' is the reason why the game is such in a low point, but I'm sure there's gonna be 50 people coming in and saying 'it's those damn MOBAS!!1111', Blizzard can do no wrong!!!111'
as much as your arguments are valid to certain extent, I hope you realize your name and attitude makes them kinda irrelevant.
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ya look how good C&C4, Homeworld, DoW3, Halo Wars 2 and so many other RTS games are doing. Clearly, ATVI has missed the multi-billion dollar PC-Only-RTS Gravy Train!
On August 16 2017 22:11 hexhaven wrote: In a perfect world they'd add searfaring units like in WC2. RA3 has the best integrated naval play of any RTS i`ve ever played. resources in the water made it really cool.
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On August 16 2017 20:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 20:41 207aicila wrote:On August 16 2017 20:38 Ej_ wrote:On August 16 2017 19:52 Zephyp wrote: Is it just me or has SC2 gone through a lot of big changes during it's 7 years? Obviously the game was divided into three, which gave them opportunities to make big changes with each expansion, but there's been some major changes, at least with LotV.
I never followed SC1, but did it have major changes similar to what we see in SC2? Last balance patch for brood war was in 1999. No, 2001. its funny how people think Blizzard hatched SC1 on March 31st 1998 in 100% perfect condition. then, in the first week of December in 1998 Blizzard introduced 3 balance patches in 7 days and Brood War was tuned to perfection in a week ... no bugs, no exploits, BNet working great. Everyone "just knew" the game was perfect. No debates. nothing. just perfection. when Brood War was released i recall having to make up special "house rules" about DTs to keep the game balanced during 2v2s at the local LAN/Internet Gaming Zoo... i mean.. Cafe. We were not a violent gang of shoplifting vandals.. nope ... we were perfect teenagers experiencing the joy of video games while sipping $5 Iced Lattes and politely congratulating our victorious opponents for a game well played. Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 20:42 Creager wrote:On August 16 2017 18:56 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 16 2017 18:39 LoneYoShi wrote:On August 16 2017 15:27 FataLe wrote:On August 16 2017 15:22 plogamer wrote: .. And now we revert them. Proudly (ahem) presenting; Starcraft II Classic. WoL Remastered. Launch Event Mvp vs Idra As a terran, my favorite SC2 era was the end of WoL: pure mech, pure bio and marine tank were pretty much viable in both TvZ and TvT, Protoss had less gimmicky stuff, it's the time period I enjoyed most playing, so I surely wouldn't mind getting back to it ! As for an Mvp and Idra game, imagine the hype... :-O i really like the state of Terran right now. its great. i'd prefer Air had a bit less power and Ground had a bit more power. i like all 6 matchups and the 3 mirrors are as interesting as they've ever been. i hope they only do minor changes to the game. On August 16 2017 13:32 Railgan wrote: Make Swarmhosts (even) great(er) again "The Business Of the Zerg Swarm is Swarm Hosts", Ronald Reagan, 1980 Inauguration speech. Except TvT isn't as good as it has been in the previous expansions, definitely better without Tankivacs and not mass Reaper every game, but not on par with the glory days. i think TvT has always been very good and right now its very close to being as good as the glory days. MAYBE, a touch too much air play in TvT. in general, there is a slight bit too much air play in the entirety of the game. However, this is such a nit-picky point for me ... i'm afraid they'll FUBAR the entire game while trying to adjust it for 5% or 10% less air play. just my subjective $0.02.
Definitely agree on your point regarding the emphasis on air-centered armies in LotV and how they'd probably fuck up trying to tone that down, but I think part of the core problem with that is having access to excessive amounts of gas rather early on, macro streamlining sure didn't help with that, it got even easier to get to 3 bases and accumulate a formidable air force.
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On August 16 2017 22:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote: ya look how good C&C4, Homeworld, DoW3, and so many other RTS games are doing. Clearly, ATVI has missed the multi-billion dollar PC-Only-RTS Gravy Train!
Man you're a good poster most of the time but this is such a pitiful argument.
"The market isn't as viable for RTS games as it used to be, so we should be thankful to Blizzard for convincing Activision to allow this game to exist at all, and nevermind all the flaws and problems that have been plaguing it for the last 7 years many of which still unfixed."
Literally a "better than nothing" Mighty No. 9 style argument.
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On August 16 2017 22:18 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 22:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote: ya look how good C&C4, Homeworld, DoW3, and so many other RTS games are doing. Clearly, ATVI has missed the multi-billion dollar PC-Only-RTS Gravy Train! Man you're a good poster most of the time but this is such a pitiful argument. "The market isn't as viable for RTS games as it used to be, so we should be thankful to Blizzard for convincing Activision to allow this game to exist at all, and nevermind all the flaws and problems that have been plaguing it for the last 7 years many of which still unfixed." Literally a "better than nothing" Mighty No. 9 style argument. i think the game is fine and its lack of popularity is not evidence the game is bad.
if a better RTS game had come out in the last 15 years that was better i'd be playing it. as consumers all we can do is choose. some narcissists get taken in by this "we listen to the community" mantra and the narcissists believe they are "design partners" with Blizzard or EA or Valve. we're not. we're consumers.
The only RTS games that come close to being as good as SC2 are other Blizzard RTS games, RA2 and RA3. RA2 and RA3 has zero support... so here i am.
ironically, many of the big design guys that made RA2 and RA3 possible are now working for Blizz.
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sadly i stopped playing with lotv mostly and with the last winter update totaly... the patches made the game no fun anymore and i hardly doubt any patch could make it back (i dont like so many start probes i dont like the halfed minerals in bases)
i loved WOT i liked HOTS but LOTV ... i dont have that many hopes for a balance patch
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On August 16 2017 22:28 Drake wrote: sadly i stopped playing with lotv mostly and with the last winter update totaly... the patches made the game no fun anymore and i hardly doubt any patch could make it back (i dont like so many start probes i dont like the halfed minerals in bases)
i loved WOT i liked HOTS but LOTV ... i dont have that many hopes for a balance patch
I'm so torn on the resources per base.
On one hand, spreading out bases is really good! On the other hand, you have to spend all your money on economy because your main is going to mine out in 6 minutes.
It feels very suffocating and limiting.
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On August 16 2017 22:18 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 22:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote: ya look how good C&C4, Homeworld, DoW3, and so many other RTS games are doing. Clearly, ATVI has missed the multi-billion dollar PC-Only-RTS Gravy Train! Man you're a good poster most of the time but this is such a pitiful argument. "The market isn't as viable for RTS games as it used to be, so we should be thankful to Blizzard for convincing Activision to allow this game to exist at all, and nevermind all the flaws and problems that have been plaguing it for the last 7 years many of which still unfixed." Literally a "better than nothing" Mighty No. 9 style argument. There are no flaws and problems with this game. Maybe you just don't like RTS games? Try League instead, maybe that fits you better
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On August 16 2017 23:01 InfCereal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 22:28 Drake wrote: sadly i stopped playing with lotv mostly and with the last winter update totaly... the patches made the game no fun anymore and i hardly doubt any patch could make it back (i dont like so many start probes i dont like the halfed minerals in bases)
i loved WOT i liked HOTS but LOTV ... i dont have that many hopes for a balance patch I'm so torn on the resources per base. On one hand, spreading out bases is really good! On the other hand, you have to spend all your money on economy because your main is going to mine out in 6 minutes. It feels very suffocating and limiting. I'd like it if they reverted that but I'm not sure how realistic that is. Maybe if a large part of the community demands it?
My main problem with it is how it reduces comeback potential. Losing 10-15 workers in the early game is way more significant because by the time you have replaced them your main is already running dry.
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On August 16 2017 23:07 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 22:18 207aicila wrote:On August 16 2017 22:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote: ya look how good C&C4, Homeworld, DoW3, and so many other RTS games are doing. Clearly, ATVI has missed the multi-billion dollar PC-Only-RTS Gravy Train! Man you're a good poster most of the time but this is such a pitiful argument. "The market isn't as viable for RTS games as it used to be, so we should be thankful to Blizzard for convincing Activision to allow this game to exist at all, and nevermind all the flaws and problems that have been plaguing it for the last 7 years many of which still unfixed." Literally a "better than nothing" Mighty No. 9 style argument. There are no flaws and problems with this game. Maybe you just don't like RTS games? Try League instead, maybe that fits you better
A German trying to troll me? It's unlikely, but I must ask anyway.
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I'd like to see a change to the economy of SC2. Can we reduce the amount of workers we start with from 12 to 10, and increasing the mineral patches from 1,000 to 1,250. These small changes will bring back the early game cheeses (hopefully) and make the early game a bit more exciting to watch in my opinion. Forcing players to expand in the early game due to the reduced mineral patches is not that fun to watch or play compared to HOTS or WOL for me. Don't get me wrong, some games are great and exciting, but overall I do not like the current economy too much. The one base shenanigans were pretty fun to watch and play against.
I'd also like to see a nerf to air units overall. As a Terran player, playing against mech and players who have a tons of Vikings is rather difficult to win against. I know I'm not a progamer nor are my builds refined, but I think a slight nerf to air units will do wonders to the game.
May I also suggest nerfing (mass) Oracles?
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On August 16 2017 23:24 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 23:07 Charoisaur wrote:On August 16 2017 22:18 207aicila wrote:On August 16 2017 22:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote: ya look how good C&C4, Homeworld, DoW3, and so many other RTS games are doing. Clearly, ATVI has missed the multi-billion dollar PC-Only-RTS Gravy Train! Man you're a good poster most of the time but this is such a pitiful argument. "The market isn't as viable for RTS games as it used to be, so we should be thankful to Blizzard for convincing Activision to allow this game to exist at all, and nevermind all the flaws and problems that have been plaguing it for the last 7 years many of which still unfixed." Literally a "better than nothing" Mighty No. 9 style argument. There are no flaws and problems with this game. Maybe you just don't like RTS games? Try League instead, maybe that fits you better A German trying to troll me? It's unlikely, but I must ask anyway. I'm exaggerating but there's some truth to what I said. A lot of people always point out all the flaws and issues of SC2 but I think that's often just because they don't enjoy RTS games in general anymore and try to blame the last RTS that's still going strong for that. I believe no matter how the game gets changed, there will always be people who rant about how it's fundamentally broken.
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On August 16 2017 23:58 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 23:24 207aicila wrote:On August 16 2017 23:07 Charoisaur wrote:On August 16 2017 22:18 207aicila wrote:On August 16 2017 22:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote: ya look how good C&C4, Homeworld, DoW3, and so many other RTS games are doing. Clearly, ATVI has missed the multi-billion dollar PC-Only-RTS Gravy Train! Man you're a good poster most of the time but this is such a pitiful argument. "The market isn't as viable for RTS games as it used to be, so we should be thankful to Blizzard for convincing Activision to allow this game to exist at all, and nevermind all the flaws and problems that have been plaguing it for the last 7 years many of which still unfixed." Literally a "better than nothing" Mighty No. 9 style argument. There are no flaws and problems with this game. Maybe you just don't like RTS games? Try League instead, maybe that fits you better A German trying to troll me? It's unlikely, but I must ask anyway. I'm exaggerating but there's some truth to what I said. A lot of people always point out all the flaws and issues of SC2 but I think that's often just because they don't enjoy RTS games in general anymore and try to blame the last RTS that's still going strong for that. I believe no matter how the game gets changed, there will always be people who rant about how it's fundamentally broken.
Well in that case sorry to break your false narrative. I've been playing RTS games for over 20 years now (not just StarCraft) and no I'm not tired of them. The fact of the matter is that SC2 has always had fundamental design problems since day one, and Blizzard have been incredibly stubborn about actually changing the vision of their design, only applying superficial bandaid fixes that at best worked partially and at worst failed miserably, as the case may be.
See, you (unknowingly?) allude to it too. Yes, there will always be people who rant about how it's broken, because Blizzard has never fixed core aspects of how it works. They refuse to admit their shortcomings even if it would mean the bettering of the game and the pleasing of its players in the long run.
But no, for your information I am still enjoying SC:R, AoE2 HD and occasionally OpenRA, and I come back to the campaigns of other RTS games once every few years.
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On August 16 2017 22:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote:ya look how good C&C4, Homeworld, DoW3, Halo Wars 2 and so many other RTS games are doing. Clearly, ATVI has missed the multi-billion dollar PC-Only-RTS Gravy Train! Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 22:11 hexhaven wrote: In a perfect world they'd add searfaring units like in WC2. RA3 has the best integrated naval play of any RTS i`ve ever played. resources in the water made it really cool.
DoW3 is a literal insult to the series and the fanbase, Homeworld DOK wasn't really a HW game and what's that about C&C4? There's no such thing, RA3 was the last CnC game.
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On August 17 2017 00:11 ihatevideogames wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 22:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote:ya look how good C&C4, Homeworld, DoW3, Halo Wars 2 and so many other RTS games are doing. Clearly, ATVI has missed the multi-billion dollar PC-Only-RTS Gravy Train! On August 16 2017 22:11 hexhaven wrote: In a perfect world they'd add searfaring units like in WC2. RA3 has the best integrated naval play of any RTS i`ve ever played. resources in the water made it really cool. DoW3 is a literal insult to the series and the fanbase, Homeworld DOK wasn't really a HW game and what's that about C&C4? There's no such thing, RA3 was the last CnC game.
Can confirm this about DoW 3 as a 40k fan myself. I had a friend who enjoyed Deserts of Kharak for a while, but he also thought it was completely different to the old Homeworlds.
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On August 16 2017 14:20 avilo wrote: My only hope for this is:
Address all the rampant problems since launch and since patch 3.8 (sh patch):
-nerf swarmhosts severely -nerf all air units across the board, especially carriers, ravens, and vipers -carrier, swarmhost, raven all simultaenous nerfs so these can't simply be massed late game -mech viability aka fixing mech anti-air by adding more damage to thor AA, viking from factory...something...anything -address economy? Bring back 1500 patches like brood war/Heart of the Swarm/Wings of Liberty. -remove liberator range upgrade from the game -address ravager all-ins and hydralisk/baneling combat shields that were recently added -add high ground advantage? like in Brood war? Would be interesting -invulnerable nydus worm changed back please -protoss design change or unit tweaks. Protoss's current identity is either mass adepts or carriers for the most part
Mostly agree with all of this, mass air has always been too strong and the "ultimate army" in SC2 so they should definitely work on toning them down across the board. Specifically the ones you mentioned, I would also add Void Rays up for a rebalance, they pretty much only exist to hard counter Corruptors and are an A move unit, in other words, bad design.
On the economy issue which I've also grown to hate how fast your bases mine out, they don't need to go up to the same mineral levels that were in WoL/HoTS, because on one hand the new economy IS forcing players to spread out and not deathball as much, but it's too severe, they need to buff the mineral amount by perhaps 25%? That way instead of your base being mined out in 6 minutes (ridiculous) it could be more like 7:30 - 8:00 minutes perhaps. It would at least slow the game down a wee bit and not make harassment so powerful.
High ground advantage? Maybe, would probably be broken in ZvT where Zerg would pretty much be immune to it and Terran would suffer greatly since all of their units have ranged attacks, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong on this.
More like remove Liberators from the game, yes at the very least remove the range upgrade for the game, it's an auto lose situation sometimes and it's just needless and stupid. An upgrade should never be a win condition in this game.
Cyclone AA needs a buff but that's it, top level Koreans who would own you with any strategy can whip out mech here and there and make it work, it's always going to be a sub optimal build bro, get over it. It's just like when Hyun was making 2/2 roach/Hydra pushes work against Terran for a little while but it got phased out and now Hydralisks are kind of surfacing in the meta again, they are just flat out sub optimal units vs. Terran compared to Banelings/Mutalisks. Learn to play bio well so you stop thinking that you can go full turtle doom mech every game with impunity.
Protoss unquestionably needs design tweaks...
Disruptors = All or nothing crap unit, cancer in it's mirror match
Carrier = hopelessly broken, I understand it needed a buff but now it's just flat out over powered
Adepts = Pretty much as you said 50% of Protoss's identity, they need to shift power away from the Adept and to the Stalker which currently sucks ass
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Hopefully, these are actually "major" and "design" changes this time.
While SC2 definitely has needed truly major changes for a long time now (not regarding balance), it is hard to not think that this is just a way to artificially generate hype, especially since there are no more expansions.
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Am I missing something? What is the connection with an upcoming major patch?
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I heard a guy who declares he has some "inside knowledge" in a Chinese forum. He released this change before the twitter announcement: The amount of gas and larger mineral patch (1500) has been increased while the smaller mineral patch (750) remains same. Mule can be used to harvest gas now, but the mineral it can carry is decreased. Burrowd widow mine while loading a new missile will be visible. All 3 abilities of raven have been redesigned: a single-target missile disable mechanics target's weapon and ability; repair drones; a missile doing small aoe damage but reduce all affected units's armor. Ghost are permanent cloak. Starting energy returns to 50 and added an upgrade to increased its starting energy to 75. Liberator does not gain extra vision in siege mode, but still has vision of the sieged circle. Cyclone will launch 4 rockets immediately when lock-on on a target, and these rockets will do extra damage after upgrade. Greatly reduce the transformation time of hellion/hellbat, thor and viking. (require an upgrade) Mothership core HAS BEEN REMOVED. Nexus gains energy and new abilities: mass recall, chrono boost and shield recharge. Mothership will be built directly from nexus and lost overcharge. Mass recall is recall units to the mothership. Stalker's damage and weapon upgrade are increased, but attack cooldown is in creased as well. High templar gains regular attack. Disruptor has lower damage and cooldown. However when the center of the explosive nova touches an enemy unit, it will explode immediately. Colossus will do less damage to regular units but more damage to light units. Its starting range is increased, but upgraded range remains the same. The range upgrade cost is reduced. Interceptor's cost is increased a little bit. Observer and Overseer gain surveillance mode (similar to the one in co-op) Fungal growth will NOT affect air units at all. It will only reduce the targeted ground units' speed if outside creep. and still immobilize ground units standing on creep and its radius is increased. Infested Terran gets a better AA weapon Parasite bomb's damage is increased to 180 from 60, but will not stack with another. Swarm host's speed outside creep is reduced. Lurker den can be built directly from drone but not morphed from hydra den (still requires hydra den). Lurker gains an upgrade to increase its burrow speed and move speed.
I doubt that these change may not be real, it may be just someone's imagination. Some of these change make sense, but some may not. But do not underestimate how crazy the Blizzard dev team can be. The same guy had posted other "leaked information" before such as some detail of co-op commander Fenix, and they proved to be correct.
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Lots of this "leaked" changes are too weird to be true. For example this change to funghal will make Infestors worthless and perma cloallk on ghosts will make them obviously broken.
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Hopefully these changes are not true, how can protoss defend early without overcharge?
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On August 17 2017 03:00 hiroshOne wrote: Lots of this "leaked" changes are too weird to be true. For example this change to funghal will make Infestors worthless and perma cloallk on ghosts will make them obviously broken.
That comment is only true if you are under the assumption that the changes Blizzard decides on make sense... and just like their "design update" last year (as well as LotV beta and most proposed major changes in test servers), the majority of this is likely to be reverted before release.
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I managed to screenshot the tweet before they took it down and put the current one up.
cyclone was also in it but I couldn't get it in the picture
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Banishing Pylons that make the Obelisk of Light look weak , would fix this game for me
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On August 17 2017 03:02 Zaros wrote: Hopefully these changes are not true, how can protoss defend early without overcharge?
Who cares, rip the band aid off, they should remove Overcharge and Warp Gate in one fell swoop and actually design Protoss to be more like their Brood War archetype which is fast, powerful and expensive units hitting the field. Warp Gate prevents Gateway units from being good on their own because with WG they would be completely overpowered, remove WG and suddenly you can give real meaningful changes and buffs given to Gateway units.
Protoss shouldn't need to rely on gimmick mechanics like Warp Gate and especially the dreaded MSC/pylon cannon to be a viable race, I understand that Recall will probably always be necessary for Protoss but they should be able to defend themselves more capably with just Gateway units. Just look at Zerg and Terran in comparison to how well their T1 units scale through the game, Terran uses Marines/Rauders through the entire game mostly, while Zerg uses Zerglings continuously even into the late game compositions, Protoss usually tries to get as far away from relying on Gateway units as possible as quickly as they can except when running Chargelot/Archon/Immortal but as we well know, well macro'd Ling/Bling/Hydra mops it up HARD.
Also wouldn't mind a Sentry redesign, Force Fields have had their time and now that Ravagers exist and even Archons can break them down they lose massive amounts of viability past the mid game, sometimes even sooner depending on how heavily the Zerg invests into Ravagers, I would prefer if they were made into some type of Gateway combat medic like...
Sentry
- Buff armor by 1 and their DPS slightly - Replace FF with "Plasma repair" that after a 2 second channel restores the selected units shields with available energy from the Sentry - Alter Guardian Shield to reduce ranged damage by 1 instead of 2, but any Protoss units inside the Shield itself will gain a 25% movement speed bonus to make either engaging or disengaging in the early/mid game easier.
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China6279 Posts
I don't think any of the "leaked changes" are credible.
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On August 16 2017 23:01 InfCereal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 22:28 Drake wrote: sadly i stopped playing with lotv mostly and with the last winter update totaly... the patches made the game no fun anymore and i hardly doubt any patch could make it back (i dont like so many start probes i dont like the halfed minerals in bases)
i loved WOT i liked HOTS but LOTV ... i dont have that many hopes for a balance patch I'm so torn on the resources per base. On one hand, spreading out bases is really good! On the other hand, you have to spend all your money on economy because your main is going to mine out in 6 minutes. It feels very suffocating and limiting. the issue is that blizzard used the bandaid method again. I talked about this during lotv beta along with everyone else. TL came up with plenty of viable economy overhauls that would support mineral patch changes, because the problem lies in the design of sc2's economy, not in the amount of minerals per base.
restricting strategies by making a fast expand 100% required in every matchup and then forcing people to expand faster because their bases dry up so quickly doesn't make for a fun experience imo. In some ways its helped keep the game exciting to watch but I just haven't really enjoyed playing lotv ever.
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mules mine gas ? sorry but most of those changes dont make sense, even for the low Lotv standards.
At this point it would probably be the best to revert back to WoL and simply rebalance the game.
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On August 17 2017 03:22 jpg06051992 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 03:02 Zaros wrote: Hopefully these changes are not true, how can protoss defend early without overcharge? Who cares, rip the band aid off, they should remove Overcharge and Warp Gate in one fell swoop and actually design Protoss to be more like their Brood War archetype which is fast, powerful and expensive units hitting the field. Warp Gate prevents Gateway units from being good on their own because with WG they would be completely overpowered, remove WG and suddenly you can give real meaningful changes and buffs given to Gateway units. Protoss shouldn't need to rely on gimmick mechanics like Warp Gate and especially the dreaded MSC/pylon cannon to be a viable race, I understand that Recall will probably always be necessary for Protoss but they should be able to defend themselves more capably with just Gateway units. Just look at Zerg and Terran in comparison to how well their T1 units scale through the game, Terran uses Marines/Rauders through the entire game mostly, while Zerg uses Zerglings continuously even into the late game compositions, Protoss usually tries to get as far away from relying on Gateway units as possible as quickly as they can except when running Chargelot/Archon/Immortal but as we well know, well macro'd Ling/Bling/Hydra mops it up HARD. Also wouldn't mind a Sentry redesign, Force Fields have had their time and now that Ravagers exist and even Archons can break them down they lose massive amounts of viability past the mid game, sometimes even sooner depending on how heavily the Zerg invests into Ravagers, I would prefer if they were made into some type of Gateway combat medic like... Sentry - Buff armor by 1 and their DPS slightly - Replace FF with "Plasma repair" that after a 2 second channel restores the selected units shields with available energy from the Sentry - Alter Guardian Shield to reduce ranged damage by 1 instead of 2, but any Protoss units inside the Shield itself will gain a 25% movement speed bonus to make either engaging or disengaging in the early/mid game easier.
I'm all for making the protoss stronger in the early game and removing overcharge, just this list only buffs the stalker so I hope the list isn't true or at least there is more to come. I like warp gates they are a pretty "cool" mechanic, maybe make it a less offensive mechanic reworking the warp prism.
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Finland855 Posts
On August 16 2017 22:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote:ya look how good C&C4, Homeworld, DoW3, Halo Wars 2 and so many other RTS games are doing. Clearly, ATVI has missed the multi-billion dollar PC-Only-RTS Gravy Train! Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 22:11 hexhaven wrote: In a perfect world they'd add searfaring units like in WC2. RA3 has the best integrated naval play of any RTS i`ve ever played. resources in the water made it really cool.
I loved Planetary Annihilation's navy units, especially in the really tiny ponds.
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They'll make the game worse so everyone buy SCR
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they aren't going to remove warpgate, they just aren't. and gateway units aren't getting much stronger.
I highly doubt blizzard will want to remove warpgate and completely redesign every protoss unit's strength.
instead we are just going to see mothership core nerfs because people complained about being proxy pylon'd, or boo hoo hero units. and thus protoss becomes an even more volatile race to place and amount of people playing it drops even more. even with defensive abilities on the nexus instead of a momma core, people will complain about it being "cheap".
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I feel a lot of those leaked changes are easily possible.
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Players want to enjoy the game a little more, that's all. Lesser power. but more interaction and gameplay.
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Go back to hots and i will love it again :D
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What sucks is that these changes will come most likely xmas time (100% after Blizzcon in November).
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On August 17 2017 03:33 ruypture wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 23:01 InfCereal wrote:On August 16 2017 22:28 Drake wrote: sadly i stopped playing with lotv mostly and with the last winter update totaly... the patches made the game no fun anymore and i hardly doubt any patch could make it back (i dont like so many start probes i dont like the halfed minerals in bases)
i loved WOT i liked HOTS but LOTV ... i dont have that many hopes for a balance patch I'm so torn on the resources per base. On one hand, spreading out bases is really good! On the other hand, you have to spend all your money on economy because your main is going to mine out in 6 minutes. It feels very suffocating and limiting. the issue is that blizzard used the bandaid method again. I talked about this during lotv beta along with everyone else. TL came up with plenty of viable economy overhauls that would support mineral patch changes, because the problem lies in the design of sc2's economy, not in the amount of minerals per base. restricting strategies by making a fast expand 100% required in every matchup and then forcing people to expand faster because their bases dry up so quickly doesn't make for a fun experience imo. In some ways its helped keep the game exciting to watch but I just haven't really enjoyed playing lotv ever.
Thing is, the force of fast expand and bases dying up so quickly... that was never even intended. They simply were forced in to that once they pushed the release date up.
Keep in mind that the entire testing & 12 worker start was moving towards the assumption that macro mechanics were going to be removed.
During the testing (until the last month when they suddenly reverted & threw away all the testing research), 12 worker start made up for the loss of speed of economic growth. Typically a few mins in to the game, you would have to start skirmishing with only a handful of units, and you STILL had those intense T1>T1.5>T2 progression battles.
Once they decided to revert the macro mechanics back to HotS, to even it out they would need to remove the 12 worker start as well.
They didn't.
The result? An economy that starts stronger than ever, combined with the exponential economy growth you get from macro mechanics = the problem we've been having all through LotV.
After those major changes, it would take an extended amount of time if they truly wanted to balance everything out. There was only a couple weeks of testing prior to release!
What they released was untested, and most obviously not even their intention. LotV had an original release date of March on the Blizzard Store page. The developers promised us a "much longer beta" than any of their RTS games ever had. They told us they spoke to all the Korean pros and were satisfied with the direction they went and were moving forward with it.
Then suddenly, they claim they "are not sure of the direction", release got pushed up to November at Blizzcon, they did not have sufficient time to test any of major changes. The beta was EXACTLY as long as hots beta. Blizzard store page changed from March - Nov. The majority of everything we tested in beta was reverted to hots status.
It's quite obvious this was never the intent. Seems to be a business decision, they had to make up for the loss of something at Blizzcon (most likely Overwatch), they had to minimize damage, and lotv was the casualty.
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Since everyone is doing this I figure why not have a little fun and do it myself. My guesses/hopes/maybe some rambling: - Battlecruiser Tactical Jump Removed - Medivac Energy changed to 75 - Medivac Ignite Afterburners costs 25 Energy - Cyclone I would guess is semi-reverted, Lock On changed, damage type changed; could be anything. - Ravens. There are a hundred ways the unit can be tweaked. Again, anything could happen. I'd like to see Irradiate return for anti-biological damage and Siege Tanks used for more anti-Armored/Mechanical. - Mothership Core Removed - Photon Overcharge ability added to Nexus, Energy? who knows, Has to be cast on a Photon Cannon (Pylon? Nah. Nexus itself? Nah!) within range - Planet Cracker added? Vortex returns? Idk, but I think there's a fair chance. - High Templar movement speed increased, cast range decreased - Force Field removed; Replaced by AoE slow ability (something that is effectively similar, but not as extreme) I wondered a while back if Stasis Wards would see a change to allow manual activating, but it might be a little much without requiring Stasis Trap to be researched first. - Added Zerg Melee Air Unit (Ultra X Corruptor) - Infestors can no longer cast Fungal Growth while Burrowed - Infested Terran DPS and Health incresed slightly - Infest Command Center ability added to Changeling; Requires Infestation Pit (Too crazy? Well, Queens can't fly in SC2 so I figured Changelings were the next best thing... but maybe instead...) - Queen can morph into Broodmother; They can fly and have Infest Command Center which automatically spawn Scourge; Obviously requires Hive I imagine the Viper could be changed to need upgrades to cast more efficiently, or Consume or to need to be researched.
Some are obviously a bit silly, but I wouldn't be surprised if anyone on the team has considered them at some point. I do hope they don't go too far with this one. There are very few things right now that feel problematic overall, and I don't believe the majority of people actually playing the game need huge changes to stay interested. I also have my fingers crossed that they'll push out an "exaggerated" version on the PTR with matchmaking and keep it there for a good while. But, who knows, maybe someone there wants to slam it down and blow up the live ladder.
Lastly, since a lot of people are on the naval unit idea lately, thinking about War2 and older RTS, I would not be surprised if we see some support within the editor or a Co-op Mission added that deals with naval units and water mechanics. But, it's space after all, it doesn't fit that well within StarCraft. Maybe Heroes of the Storm will see something like that explored in the near future, or perhaps SC2 will get it first and they'll put out a beefier editor for both SC2 and Heroes that has further naval support (wink wink nudge nudge Blizz)?
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I am 100% sure that the leaked patch notes are the correct one.
Some of them makes no sense but there is not a single change that is not consistent with how Blizzard operates.
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On August 17 2017 04:57 Psychobabas wrote: What sucks is that these changes will come most likely xmas time (100% after Blizzcon in November). Presumably just like 3.8 but I think screwing over all the pros right before Blizzcon is a decent reason to delay these changes.
Also everyone needs a good amount of time to play/test the changes and give feedback.
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On August 17 2017 03:50 youngjiddle wrote: they aren't going to remove warpgate, they just aren't. and gateway units aren't getting much stronger.
I highly doubt blizzard will want to remove warpgate and completely redesign every protoss unit's strength.
instead we are just going to see mothership core nerfs because people complained about being proxy pylon'd, or boo hoo hero units. and thus protoss becomes an even more volatile race to place and amount of people playing it drops even more. even with defensive abilities on the nexus instead of a momma core, people will complain about it being "cheap".
I know they won't but they need to, it wouldn't make them have to redesign all of Protoss unit strengths, only Gateway units would receive said sweeping changes but would the changes really be so sweeping? Stalkers could receive a large damage buff very easily if you lacked the ability to warp 12 of them in at once, but since you can do that, it would be broken.
I guess what I wish they would do with the whole thing is...
1. Remove Warp Gate
2. Increase Zealot base movement speed to allow them to be positioned and micro managed for base defense
3. Increase Stalkers damage by 2 and it's damage vs light + 4, they attack pitifully slow so at the very least they should (and would be able) to hit hard.
4. Change Sentry to combat medic form that I previously posted (this is subjected, they don't really need any changes I just wish they would)
5. Change Adepts to be anti-armored damage and give them their old hit points back. This would make them worse vs. workers but would mesh better in the new Gateway army where Stalkers aren't dead weight against Ling/Hydra or Muta or Bio.....Geez Stalkers are so bad :/
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Hopefully Blizzard has some nice changes. Last major changes were so disappointing I lost interest in SC2.
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On August 17 2017 06:33 sc-darkness wrote: Hopefully Blizzard has some nice changes. Last major changes were so disappointing I lost interest in SC2.
As long as it's nothing but a balance patch, the issues will still persist. They call it a "design update"... but if they truly want to update the design it needs to be MORE than just a balance patch.
I don't see it truly ever happening.
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Those leaks have some crazy changes. Maybe they finally went ham after David left
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pernament clock ghost ? :O Its cheesing time!!!!!
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On August 17 2017 06:40 seemsgood wrote: pernament clock ghost ? :O Its cheesing time!!!!!
Honestly why not, the Ghost has sucked ass for a long time now, it needs more then just a buff.
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TBH this game currently has only one problem.Air units. Good to see they addressed alot according to the leaked patch.
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On August 17 2017 06:47 jpg06051992 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 06:40 seemsgood wrote: pernament clock ghost ? :O Its cheesing time!!!!! Honestly why not, the Ghost has sucked ass for a long time now, it needs more then just a buff. what? ghosts are standard units in lategame tvp and tvz, what the fuck do you want them to do? beat siege tanks?
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On August 17 2017 07:01 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 06:47 jpg06051992 wrote:On August 17 2017 06:40 seemsgood wrote: pernament clock ghost ? :O Its cheesing time!!!!! Honestly why not, the Ghost has sucked ass for a long time now, it needs more then just a buff. what? ghosts are standard units in lategame tvp and tvz, what the fuck do you want them to do? beat siege tanks? Obviously they want this unit has more use in early game than just a late game unit.Should give dark templar same treatment because they failed so hard to increase it's usage.
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On August 17 2017 07:01 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 06:47 jpg06051992 wrote:On August 17 2017 06:40 seemsgood wrote: pernament clock ghost ? :O Its cheesing time!!!!! Honestly why not, the Ghost has sucked ass for a long time now, it needs more then just a buff. what? ghosts are standard units in lategame tvp and tvz, what the fuck do you want them to do? beat siege tanks?
for their cost? sure why not
in brood war they had lockdown...
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On August 17 2017 07:11 seemsgood wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 07:01 Ej_ wrote:On August 17 2017 06:47 jpg06051992 wrote:On August 17 2017 06:40 seemsgood wrote: pernament clock ghost ? :O Its cheesing time!!!!! Honestly why not, the Ghost has sucked ass for a long time now, it needs more then just a buff. what? ghosts are standard units in lategame tvp and tvz, what the fuck do you want them to do? beat siege tanks? Obviously they want this unit has more use in early game than just a late game unit.Should give dark templar same treatment because they failed so hard to increase it's usage.
Well dark templars are amazing units in ZvP... unless they get massacred by baneling splash which all zergs do now because of the baneling hp buff ... just piss poor design decisions from Blizzard
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On August 17 2017 07:16 Psychobabas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 07:11 seemsgood wrote:On August 17 2017 07:01 Ej_ wrote:On August 17 2017 06:47 jpg06051992 wrote:On August 17 2017 06:40 seemsgood wrote: pernament clock ghost ? :O Its cheesing time!!!!! Honestly why not, the Ghost has sucked ass for a long time now, it needs more then just a buff. what? ghosts are standard units in lategame tvp and tvz, what the fuck do you want them to do? beat siege tanks? Obviously they want this unit has more use in early game than just a late game unit.Should give dark templar same treatment because they failed so hard to increase it's usage. Well dark templars are amazing units in ZvP... unless they get massacred by baneling splash which all zergs do now because of the baneling hp buff ... just piss poor design decisions from Blizzard
You're right, that +5 hp is entirely why we're going banes.
lmao
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On August 17 2017 07:13 Psychobabas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 07:01 Ej_ wrote:On August 17 2017 06:47 jpg06051992 wrote:On August 17 2017 06:40 seemsgood wrote: pernament clock ghost ? :O Its cheesing time!!!!! Honestly why not, the Ghost has sucked ass for a long time now, it needs more then just a buff. what? ghosts are standard units in lategame tvp and tvz, what the fuck do you want them to do? beat siege tanks? for their cost? sure why not in brood war they had lockdown...
You realize that Ghosts in BW were far rarer than they've ever been in SC2 right?
EMP & Snipe >>> Lockdown.
Well that and being a tier 3 unit, requiring science facility *and* covert ops.
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"we feel like the medivac isn't seen enough in the terran matchups so we decided to buff its health to 250"
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On August 17 2017 07:20 InfCereal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 07:16 Psychobabas wrote:On August 17 2017 07:11 seemsgood wrote:On August 17 2017 07:01 Ej_ wrote:On August 17 2017 06:47 jpg06051992 wrote:On August 17 2017 06:40 seemsgood wrote: pernament clock ghost ? :O Its cheesing time!!!!! Honestly why not, the Ghost has sucked ass for a long time now, it needs more then just a buff. what? ghosts are standard units in lategame tvp and tvz, what the fuck do you want them to do? beat siege tanks? Obviously they want this unit has more use in early game than just a late game unit.Should give dark templar same treatment because they failed so hard to increase it's usage. Well dark templars are amazing units in ZvP... unless they get massacred by baneling splash which all zergs do now because of the baneling hp buff ... just piss poor design decisions from Blizzard You're right, that +5 hp is entirely why we're going banes. lmao
Because they werent doing that before. Fact. lmao
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On August 17 2017 07:21 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 07:13 Psychobabas wrote:On August 17 2017 07:01 Ej_ wrote:On August 17 2017 06:47 jpg06051992 wrote:On August 17 2017 06:40 seemsgood wrote: pernament clock ghost ? :O Its cheesing time!!!!! Honestly why not, the Ghost has sucked ass for a long time now, it needs more then just a buff. what? ghosts are standard units in lategame tvp and tvz, what the fuck do you want them to do? beat siege tanks? for their cost? sure why not in brood war they had lockdown... You realize that Ghosts in BW were far rarer than they've ever been in SC2 right? EMP & Snipe >>> Lockdown. Well that and being a tier 3 unit, requiring science facility *and* covert ops.
In brood war they were almost useless because of that. Good old Boxer
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On August 17 2017 07:01 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 06:47 jpg06051992 wrote:On August 17 2017 06:40 seemsgood wrote: pernament clock ghost ? :O Its cheesing time!!!!! Honestly why not, the Ghost has sucked ass for a long time now, it needs more then just a buff. what? ghosts are standard units in lategame tvp and tvz, what the fuck do you want them to do? beat siege tanks?
Not sure how standard they are really in ZvT anymore my dude, I play at a low masters level and I usually face roll any Terran that wastes the time to invest infrastructure into a unit that only beat's Ultralisks. Once they mop the Ultralisks you just remax on non massive units and generally bowl them over completely.
I digress I'm just a Zerg player and frankly didn't know about their dynamic in TvP, a match up I only watch if it's huge famous names playing it.
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I still highly doubt those leaked changes are real. Even though some of them actually sound kinda promising, most of them are out of touch or just nonsense.
I mean... i know the last major update had a lot of "out of touch/stupid" changes, but hey... i just hope blizzard learns from their mistakes.
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gamespeed reduced by ~8% would be the best change imo, and bases not mining out so quickly. sc2 is way too fast
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Hoping for blink Zealots and Immortals.
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Why don't they start from BW, and add SC2 units that not overlap, smartcasting, smartmining, unlimited unit selection? Make a good game, really.
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On August 16 2017 22:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote:ya look how good C&C4, Homeworld, DoW3, Halo Wars 2 and so many other RTS games are doing. Clearly, ATVI has missed the multi-billion dollar PC-Only-RTS Gravy Train! Show nested quote +On August 16 2017 22:11 hexhaven wrote: In a perfect world they'd add searfaring units like in WC2. RA3 has the best integrated naval play of any RTS i`ve ever played. resources in the water made it really cool. Every single one of these games manages to be worse than SC2 somehow(not an easy feat by any means). Oh and Red Alert 3 is the best RTS since Brood War btw.
On August 17 2017 07:59 StarscreamG1 wrote: Why don't they start from BW, and add SC2 units that not overlap, smartcasting, smartmining, unlimited unit selection? Make a good game, really. Would certainly save some face. They'll wish they had done that when this update flops worse than 3.8.
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from the chinese leak, i can tell you that's gonna be big
big changes i tell you
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Obviously, bunkers need to be tweaked again. I fully expect their build time or refunded minerals to be buffed or nerfed.
I miss old times.
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United States97247 Posts
I would like to see the mineral patches changed back
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Greatly reduce the transformation time of hellion/hellbat, thor and viking. (require an upgrade) AUTOBOT ROLL OUT!
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1500 mineral patches come back please then SC2 can be long drawn out macro games again with comeback potential like Heart of the Swarm
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late hots was so good. It had some balance issues here and there, but overall it was in a better spot design wise than lotv is since it got released.
I really hope they will finally get it right this time around.
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HotS TvP was no way balanced, protoss was heavily favoured and the match up was stupid. We need to find an economy that permits the comeback potential but doesn't make the late game a stalemate.
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Observer and Overseer gain surveillance mode (similar to the one in co-op)
what's that?
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On August 17 2017 11:10 mishimaBeef wrote: Observer and Overseer gain surveillance mode (similar to the one in co-op)
what's that?
They become immobile for increased sight range.
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Feels like a PR stunt. Again. They do it alot lately and frankly, it shouldnt be acceptable to behave like it.
Last "major" patch was dissapointing as fuck.
If that chinese leak is real, its no way near enough of changes.
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On August 17 2017 07:53 KalWarkov wrote: gamespeed reduced by ~8% would be the best change imo, and bases not mining out so quickly. sc2 is way too fast I would love that. The fight spells/effects look much cooler on normal speed.
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I really like lotv, but i trust blizz so we will see how they change it.
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If this imbecil shit goes through im done with this game.
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lotv is amazing to watch but hard as hell to play. I'm not saying that's a particularly bad thing either
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On August 17 2017 07:28 Psychobabas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 07:20 InfCereal wrote:On August 17 2017 07:16 Psychobabas wrote:On August 17 2017 07:11 seemsgood wrote:On August 17 2017 07:01 Ej_ wrote:On August 17 2017 06:47 jpg06051992 wrote:On August 17 2017 06:40 seemsgood wrote: pernament clock ghost ? :O Its cheesing time!!!!! Honestly why not, the Ghost has sucked ass for a long time now, it needs more then just a buff. what? ghosts are standard units in lategame tvp and tvz, what the fuck do you want them to do? beat siege tanks? Obviously they want this unit has more use in early game than just a late game unit.Should give dark templar same treatment because they failed so hard to increase it's usage. Well dark templars are amazing units in ZvP... unless they get massacred by baneling splash which all zergs do now because of the baneling hp buff ... just piss poor design decisions from Blizzard You're right, that +5 hp is entirely why we're going banes. lmao Because they werent doing that before. Fact. lmao
As far as I understand, it's mostly due to the Adept nerf which has allowed Zerg to skip roach and instead defend with ling bane, and thus Zerg can now hit a much stronger timing with ling bane Hydra. There was, however, interesting ravager baneling build at the time, I think Snute was kinda known for those.
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On August 17 2017 15:43 Vanadiel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 07:28 Psychobabas wrote:On August 17 2017 07:20 InfCereal wrote:On August 17 2017 07:16 Psychobabas wrote:On August 17 2017 07:11 seemsgood wrote:On August 17 2017 07:01 Ej_ wrote:On August 17 2017 06:47 jpg06051992 wrote:On August 17 2017 06:40 seemsgood wrote: pernament clock ghost ? :O Its cheesing time!!!!! Honestly why not, the Ghost has sucked ass for a long time now, it needs more then just a buff. what? ghosts are standard units in lategame tvp and tvz, what the fuck do you want them to do? beat siege tanks? Obviously they want this unit has more use in early game than just a late game unit.Should give dark templar same treatment because they failed so hard to increase it's usage. Well dark templars are amazing units in ZvP... unless they get massacred by baneling splash which all zergs do now because of the baneling hp buff ... just piss poor design decisions from Blizzard You're right, that +5 hp is entirely why we're going banes. lmao Because they werent doing that before. Fact. lmao As far as I understand, it's mostly due to the Adept nerf which has allowed Zerg to skip roach and instead defend with ling bane, and thus Zerg can now hit a much stronger timing with ling bane Hydra. There was, however, interesting ravager baneling build at the time, I think Snute was kinda known for those. That's correct. Dark started ling/bane into BLs in 2016, then it evolved into ravager/bane (and sometimes hydra/bane timings vs phoenix openings). After the adept hp nerf, it became standard to go ling/bane and then into hydras in mid game. Nothing of this has anything to do with 5 more HP on banelings with speed and Psychobabas is wrong. And the reason Protoss don't make DTs past early game is because ANYTHING and an overseer beats them.
I sometimes wonder if people who post in balance threads even have the game installed on their computer, let alone play it.
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The process of making the changes should be like: Revert the game to WOL, tone down BIO, balance other things around that and then little by little import units from HOTS and LOTV. Boom- game fixed.
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I wish they'd remove or supernerf adept. I wouldn't mind if protoss gets buffed in other places to compensate for it etc, but honestly adept is just a boring unit and playing vs it kills my soul every time. I wish we were back in Hots TvP, i honestly wouldnt mind playing vs colossi at all. Like bring back old colossus, buff stalker whatever just get rid of adepts please.
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On August 17 2017 16:55 Luolis wrote: I wish they'd remove or supernerf adept. I wouldn't mind if protoss gets buffed in other places to compensate for it etc, but honestly adept is just a boring unit and playing vs it kills my soul every time. I wish we were back in Hots TvP, i honestly wouldnt mind playing vs colossi at all. Like bring back old colossus, buff stalker whatever just get rid of adepts please.
I understand you might be annoyed with the adept but it is not a boring unit, its probably the least boring of all the basic units in the game being able to be in 2 places at once quickly moving around.
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Agree that adept can be interesting. With right tweaks i think it can be a good addition. Should require more effort from protoss side, to create more balance in the fights.
The shade is so amazingly fast, and the player that chase it needs to gamble sort of.
If they would redesign the whole sc2, i would want adept in the game with that ability. Same for zealot charge, instead of having it like it is now, make it so the player has to use it manually and with effort. No brainless stuff.
Brainless stuff could be=target a unit with it, and it hits no matter what with
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On August 17 2017 17:16 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 16:55 Luolis wrote: I wish they'd remove or supernerf adept. I wouldn't mind if protoss gets buffed in other places to compensate for it etc, but honestly adept is just a boring unit and playing vs it kills my soul every time. I wish we were back in Hots TvP, i honestly wouldnt mind playing vs colossi at all. Like bring back old colossus, buff stalker whatever just get rid of adepts please. I understand you might be annoyed with the adept but it is not a boring unit, its probably the least boring of all the basic units in the game being able to be in 2 places at once quickly moving around. I dunno in what world adept isnt boring. Watching a mass of adepts fight is about as exciting as a mass of warhounds.
edit: its not the shade that i mind, its that blobs of them in my opinion just arent fun to watch at all. Just feels like a blob of tanky units with super high burst damage that doesnt allow for much micro potential apart from the shade.
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On August 17 2017 17:39 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 17:16 Zaros wrote:On August 17 2017 16:55 Luolis wrote: I wish they'd remove or supernerf adept. I wouldn't mind if protoss gets buffed in other places to compensate for it etc, but honestly adept is just a boring unit and playing vs it kills my soul every time. I wish we were back in Hots TvP, i honestly wouldnt mind playing vs colossi at all. Like bring back old colossus, buff stalker whatever just get rid of adepts please. I understand you might be annoyed with the adept but it is not a boring unit, its probably the least boring of all the basic units in the game being able to be in 2 places at once quickly moving around. I dunno in what world adept isnt boring. Watching a mass of adepts fight is about as exciting as a mass of warhounds. edit: its not the shade that i mind, its that blobs of them in my opinion just arent fun to watch at all. Just feels like a blob of tanky units with super high burst damage that doesnt allow for much micro potential apart from the shade. adept is a cool unit for hots dota2 league of legends but not for starcraft universe
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edit: its not the shade that i mind, its that blobs of them in my opinion just arent fun to watch at all. Just feels like a blob of tanky units with super high burst damage that doesnt allow for much micro potential apart from the shade. Alot of units are like this in sc2. Roaches, hydras, zealots. Stalkers without their blink is the same, not to the same degree but still close. Even marines can also be a huge blob.
So with that said, with tweaks to the unit i think it can be a good addition to sc2. Correct tweaks.. Not just any tweaks. But the same can be said to alot of units.
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On August 17 2017 17:52 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +edit: its not the shade that i mind, its that blobs of them in my opinion just arent fun to watch at all. Just feels like a blob of tanky units with super high burst damage that doesnt allow for much micro potential apart from the shade. Alot of units are like this in sc2. Roaches, hydras, zealots. Stalkers without their blink is the same, not to the same degree but still close. Even marines can also be a huge blob. So with that said, with tweaks to the unit i think it can be a good addition to sc2. Correct tweaks.. Not just any tweaks. But the same can be said to alot of units. Yea they can be blobs but especially adept blobs, in my opinion are just boring. I like to compare them to warhounds in that way. When do you see same kind of micro that you see with roaches, hydras, marines or stalkers done with adepts? Only shade is somewhat microable but other than that adepts are just an amove unit that is boring to look at.
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So what I'm gathering from all of social media and internet StarCraft forums is really just: Units should randomly slow down and speed up slightly while moving and body block one another and randomly move away from each other so that the game feels "less blobby" and "more chaotic" and "like a real space battle on the ground in the future of the 90s" and also sometimes your inputs get eaten straight up.
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On August 17 2017 18:30 blunderfulguy wrote:So what I'm gathering from all of social media and internet StarCraft forums is really just: Units should randomly slow down and speed up slightly while moving and body block one another and randomly move away from each other so that the game feels "less blobby" and "more chaotic" and "like a real space battle on the ground in the future of the 90s" and also sometimes your inputs get eaten straight up. I just wish we would get hots back. Obviously thats an utopistic dream, but it would atleast bring back my motivation to play the game :D
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Expectation : more use of burrow (faster burrow/unburrow to dodge shots), better hp regen while burrowed (1hp/s), counters of mass carriers/ht Reality : blink archons
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On August 17 2017 18:25 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 17:52 Foxxan wrote:edit: its not the shade that i mind, its that blobs of them in my opinion just arent fun to watch at all. Just feels like a blob of tanky units with super high burst damage that doesnt allow for much micro potential apart from the shade. Alot of units are like this in sc2. Roaches, hydras, zealots. Stalkers without their blink is the same, not to the same degree but still close. Even marines can also be a huge blob. So with that said, with tweaks to the unit i think it can be a good addition to sc2. Correct tweaks.. Not just any tweaks. But the same can be said to alot of units. Yea they can be blobs but especially adept blobs, in my opinion are just boring. I like to compare them to warhounds in that way. When do you see same kind of micro that you see with roaches, hydras, marines or stalkers done with adepts? Only shade is somewhat microable but other than that adepts are just an amove unit that is boring to look at. Roach vs bio. Hydra vs everything? Zealots is pure a-move as well. Wish blizz changed this. A major general change to how units behave.
We have roach vs protoss, roach can micro roach a bit if force field isnt in the picture. But zealots cant micro vs roach. We have this alot in sc2. One side can do a simple micro technique(hit and run) where the other side cant micro. Thats very common.
If you ask me, iam not sure why u are so focused on the adept in this case when sc2 suffers from this.
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On August 17 2017 18:38 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 18:30 blunderfulguy wrote:So what I'm gathering from all of social media and internet StarCraft forums is really just: Units should randomly slow down and speed up slightly while moving and body block one another and randomly move away from each other so that the game feels "less blobby" and "more chaotic" and "like a real space battle on the ground in the future of the 90s" and also sometimes your inputs get eaten straight up. I just wish we would get hots back. Obviously thats an utopistic dream, but it would atleast bring back my motivation to play the game :D
I wish we could have WoL back minus Archon toilette, mass reapers and winfestors. ^^
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On August 17 2017 19:01 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 18:25 Luolis wrote:On August 17 2017 17:52 Foxxan wrote:edit: its not the shade that i mind, its that blobs of them in my opinion just arent fun to watch at all. Just feels like a blob of tanky units with super high burst damage that doesnt allow for much micro potential apart from the shade. Alot of units are like this in sc2. Roaches, hydras, zealots. Stalkers without their blink is the same, not to the same degree but still close. Even marines can also be a huge blob. So with that said, with tweaks to the unit i think it can be a good addition to sc2. Correct tweaks.. Not just any tweaks. But the same can be said to alot of units. Yea they can be blobs but especially adept blobs, in my opinion are just boring. I like to compare them to warhounds in that way. When do you see same kind of micro that you see with roaches, hydras, marines or stalkers done with adepts? Only shade is somewhat microable but other than that adepts are just an amove unit that is boring to look at. Roach vs bio. Hydra vs everything? Zealots is pure a-move as well. Wish blizz changed this. A major general change to how units behave. We have roach vs protoss, roach can micro roach a bit if force field isnt in the picture. But zealots cant micro vs roach. We have this alot in sc2. One side can do a simple micro technique(hit and run) where the other side cant micro. Thats very common. If you ask me, iam not sure why u are so focused on the adept in this case when sc2 suffers from this. With roaches and hydras you atleast usually try to setup a concave. That's something i never see done with adepts.
Edit: anyways i guess we see things different. I just see adepts as protoss warhounds with shade and honestly i preferred the old TvP with colossi and stuff.
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On August 17 2017 18:30 blunderfulguy wrote:So what I'm gathering from all of social media and internet StarCraft forums is really just: Units should randomly slow down and speed up slightly while moving and body block one another and randomly move away from each other so that the game feels "less blobby" and "more chaotic" and "like a real space battle on the ground in the future of the 90s" and also sometimes your inputs get eaten straight up.
Personally I don't see the point in reducing well thought-out, complex arguments (with tens of thousands of words of high minded analysis backing them up over the years) to an inane parody. Reductionism in general is something that's never really sat well with me but I digress.
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It's interesting that lot of people here complain about adepts being a-move unit and praise the "good old times of WoL" while the whole protoss guideline in WoL was: 1. Make deathball. 2. A-move to oponent's base. 3. Profit.
I'm surely not skilled enough to make any balance or design change proposals, but the simple fact is, that protoss is the least played race in SC2 at the moment. Something must be wrong there. Personally as a protoss player I don't care about adepts (chargelots are much better imo), but what is really frustrating is the mothership core and photon overcharge. It's just complete bullshit. You need to build MC unless you are pretty much dead in case of any early attack coming from your oponent. And even if you built it, if you misplaced it, you can lose easily too. That's one thing I really liked back during WoL - you were able to defend with only gateway units and it was fine. Forge fast expand vs zerg? Why not, it works in BW. I guess it's all related to new economics of LotV that allows you to build more units faster at the start of the game, but that is also something, that we do not need. Obligatory expanding is not fun at all. But I disagree with some comments here that say that you can't play one base shenanigans in LotV. Of course you can. But is more all-in-ish nowadays, so you better win with your cheese straight away or your base will dry up and you're done.
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On August 17 2017 20:03 maitiky wrote: It's interesting that lot of people here complain about adepts being a-move unit and praise the "good old times of WoL" while the whole protoss guideline in WoL was: 1. Make deathball. 2. A-move to oponent's base. 3. Profit.
I don't really feel like protoss was like that at all in wol or hots. Well maybe at the total beginning of wol when everyone sucked but other than that i never thought protoss was like that. I've also always felt like deathball was overcomplained about before though, so i might just be an idiot
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For the love of all average joes and noobs: remove chrono boost and mules. Slow down the economy, slow down the game.
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On August 17 2017 20:21 papaz wrote: For the love of all average joes and noobs: remove chrono boost and mules. Slow down the economy, slow down the game. Just bring back 6 worker start and old resource amount. Then it will be perfect speed again.
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On August 17 2017 20:23 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 20:21 papaz wrote: For the love of all average joes and noobs: remove chrono boost and mules. Slow down the economy, slow down the game. Just bring back 6 worker start and old resource amount. Then it will be perfect speed again. 12 worker start has made the game much better imo. Not so much downtime at the beginning and less coinflip-cheeses. Agree about old ressource amount.
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On August 17 2017 20:25 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 20:23 Luolis wrote:On August 17 2017 20:21 papaz wrote: For the love of all average joes and noobs: remove chrono boost and mules. Slow down the economy, slow down the game. Just bring back 6 worker start and old resource amount. Then it will be perfect speed again. 12 worker start has made the game much better imo. Not so much downtime at the beginning and less coinflip-cheeses. Agree about old ressource amount. I liked the old earlygame much more. Earlygame decisions had more importance and there was more tactical choices.
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On August 17 2017 20:03 maitiky wrote: That's one thing I really liked back during WoL - you were able to defend with only gateway units and it was fine. So you are complaing about MSC and how a single micro mistake with it can cost you games while praising WOL where you didn't even have an option for building MSC, no PO, no nothing. Terran stimming up your ramp 24/7 with pure mineral army while u needed tons of gas-heavy units just to fend him off is surely my heavenly dream i want to go back to.
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On August 17 2017 20:29 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 20:25 Charoisaur wrote:On August 17 2017 20:23 Luolis wrote:On August 17 2017 20:21 papaz wrote: For the love of all average joes and noobs: remove chrono boost and mules. Slow down the economy, slow down the game. Just bring back 6 worker start and old resource amount. Then it will be perfect speed again. 12 worker start has made the game much better imo. Not so much downtime at the beginning and less coinflip-cheeses. Agree about old ressource amount. I liked the old earlygame much more. Earlygame decisions had more importance and there was more tactical choices. mad cus fuzers career ended when he couldnt 11/11 any more
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On August 17 2017 20:39 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 20:29 Luolis wrote:On August 17 2017 20:25 Charoisaur wrote:On August 17 2017 20:23 Luolis wrote:On August 17 2017 20:21 papaz wrote: For the love of all average joes and noobs: remove chrono boost and mules. Slow down the economy, slow down the game. Just bring back 6 worker start and old resource amount. Then it will be perfect speed again. 12 worker start has made the game much better imo. Not so much downtime at the beginning and less coinflip-cheeses. Agree about old ressource amount. I liked the old earlygame much more. Earlygame decisions had more importance and there was more tactical choices. mad cus fuzers career ended when he couldnt 11/11 any more eksdee. i only think of myself in this regard and my moti ended when 6 worker start ended)
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On August 17 2017 20:45 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 20:39 Aocowns wrote:On August 17 2017 20:29 Luolis wrote:On August 17 2017 20:25 Charoisaur wrote:On August 17 2017 20:23 Luolis wrote:On August 17 2017 20:21 papaz wrote: For the love of all average joes and noobs: remove chrono boost and mules. Slow down the economy, slow down the game. Just bring back 6 worker start and old resource amount. Then it will be perfect speed again. 12 worker start has made the game much better imo. Not so much downtime at the beginning and less coinflip-cheeses. Agree about old ressource amount. I liked the old earlygame much more. Earlygame decisions had more importance and there was more tactical choices. mad cus fuzers career ended when he couldnt 11/11 any more eksdee. i only think of myself in this regard and my moti ended when 6 worker start ended) besides deciding whether or not you want to proxy barracks, what other impactful choices were made before 12 workers? for zerg there were obviously the early pools, but those arent exactly missed, and they were replaced by 12 pool variations quite easily
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On August 17 2017 20:21 papaz wrote: For the love of all average joes and noobs: remove chrono boost and mules. Slow down the economy, slow down the game.
Translation : nerf terran and protoss. nice try.
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They wanted disruptor to be the new reaver, they wanted the thor to be the new goliath, now they want stalker to be a new dragoon. For god sake, replace the units and stop the nonsense. The game will die with these NOT major changes.
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On August 17 2017 20:51 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2017 20:45 Luolis wrote:On August 17 2017 20:39 Aocowns wrote:On August 17 2017 20:29 Luolis wrote:On August 17 2017 20:25 Charoisaur wrote:On August 17 2017 20:23 Luolis wrote:On August 17 2017 20:21 papaz wrote: For the love of all average joes and noobs: remove chrono boost and mules. Slow down the economy, slow down the game. Just bring back 6 worker start and old resource amount. Then it will be perfect speed again. 12 worker start has made the game much better imo. Not so much downtime at the beginning and less coinflip-cheeses. Agree about old ressource amount. I liked the old earlygame much more. Earlygame decisions had more importance and there was more tactical choices. mad cus fuzers career ended when he couldnt 11/11 any more eksdee. i only think of myself in this regard and my moti ended when 6 worker start ended) besides deciding whether or not you want to proxy barracks, what other impactful choices were made before 12 workers? for zerg there were obviously the early pools, but those arent exactly missed, and they were replaced by 12 pool variations quite easily OL scout gets too the enemy base too late, proxy gateways are basically extinct and they used to be viable in all 3 matchups
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So, am I right in saying 10:00 Pacific time is in about an hour?
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On August 18 2017 00:10 Marfy wrote: So, am I right in saying 10:00 Pacific time is in about an hour? 1h 50min from now
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A lot of things extinct simply because the better players learned how to defend better. And the lesser players are simply mimicking the better players, so you don't see it. I remember a few times where players that have been around for longer tried things of the past (including proxy 3 gate) vs new players and the new players didn't know how to defend simply because they don't face it anymore or at least don't take it into account.
On the ladder you can do whatever you want and win a lot with it if you execute well enough.
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For those mentioning the 12 worker start:
12 worker start made the game more poker/coin flip than Heart of the Swarm/Wings of Liberty.
Previously you had approximately 45 seconds to 1 minute or so to prepare or counter an all-in from your opponent if you scouted their base.
With the 12 worker start, due to your economy being massively accelerated, both players now choose builds and unit production before they even see what the opponent has gone for. It makes every match-up like Zerg Vs Zerg. Did he open pool first? Or Hatch first? It's complete random luck that puts you at an advantage or disadvantage with no reaction time for either player.
Build order win/loss and build order disadvantages are much more common with 12 worker starts than they were with 6 worker starts. 6 worker start made the game start slower, but all-ins were more telegraphed and also more ALL-IN. You could scout it, and have another 45 seconds - 1 minute to prepare counter production or bunkers or cannons or whatever it is and hold and play out a solid macro game.
People that claim the 12 worker start is good for the game are very short sighted or biased towards blind aggression and poker decisions rather than SC2 being decided by who the actual better player is in a solid macro game.
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I think the 12 worker start and the short-lived minerals have been great changes. What I've lost is a few minutes of building drones and watching my overlords inch across the map. Instead I'm thrown straight into action and deciscions. As a zerg I still get bunker and cannon rushed. In 2/3 matchups building a pool with my first 200 minerals is still legit.
Past the first 2 minutes there's always stuff going on. Against terran I get to play the reaper-mini game and then defend against hellion banshee or mine drop or hellbat all-in or a 211. Terran is then forced to kill creep tumors through the whole game to not be drowned in them, which forces army movement from both sides. There's definitely a fun kind of space control going on between creep and liberator/tank/mine. Zerg needs a path of creep to push and terran needs to kill a path through the creep. Protoss scout/pressures me with adepts immediately and in larger numbers they create frustrating (good) multitasking. Archon drops require scouting and positioning. Best of all is the early game in ZvZ where no build is a hard counter and it's always decided by micro and correct reactions.
The disappearing mineralpatches set a pace to the game where there's always something to fight for, a goal to establish a new expansion and deny the opponents every few minutes. Turtling on 3 base doesn't work so contains are legit and the spread of bases opens up for drops, run-bys, and warpins to pick off infrastructure and rallying units. That being said, protoss air, terran mech, and energy-based zerg (like the mined out game Snute won yesterday vs SouL with two entire bases less) can all expand at a much slower pace but must find a way to expand while defending production all the same. We finally have the fights on multiple fronts semi-late game that people have been asking for since WoL. In ZvP there's often lingbanehydra coming into the fourth, third, and natural at the same time. Terrans push my fourth or fifth and rally to my natural. Thanks to the oracle, overlord speed, and terrans scans, drops, and pokes there's almost no composition surprise if you pay attention to scouting.
In general I find all Z matchups very fun to play right now. The only bad part being how clearly lingbaneHydra is the best ZvP composition. ZvT is amazing though, with lingbaneMuta, lingbaneHydra, and roachRavager being viable and terrans building every single terran unit (except the battle cruiser and the newest mech-unit) in most 20+min games. Not to mention that tank-mech, battle-mech, marineTank and MMMM are all viable for T. ZvT is amazing and the effects of the economy changes helped the tempo.
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There's a lot of to-do about "change for change's sake" but... does that not characterize much of the stuff added in LOTV/HOTS? I think that for design in general if the only way to justify bold change is by adding things and increasing complexity and never by perfecting or pruning you're asking for an inferior result.
I say be bold, just don't be afraid to kill anything in PTR.
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I member during LOTV they killed the macro mechanics and that was actually pretty fun.
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On August 18 2017 00:15 avilo wrote: For those mentioning the 12 worker start:
12 worker start made the game more poker/coin flip than Heart of the Swarm/Wings of Liberty.
Previously you had approximately 45 seconds to 1 minute or so to prepare or counter an all-in from your opponent if you scouted their base.
With the 12 worker start, due to your economy being massively accelerated, both players now choose builds and unit production before they even see what the opponent has gone for. It makes every match-up like Zerg Vs Zerg. Did he open pool first? Or Hatch first? It's complete random luck that puts you at an advantage or disadvantage with no reaction time for either player.
Build order win/loss and build order disadvantages are much more common with 12 worker starts than they were with 6 worker starts. 6 worker start made the game start slower, but all-ins were more telegraphed and also more ALL-IN. You could scout it, and have another 45 seconds - 1 minute to prepare counter production or bunkers or cannons or whatever it is and hold and play out a solid macro game.
People that claim the 12 worker start is good for the game are very short sighted or biased towards blind aggression and poker decisions rather than SC2 being decided by who the actual better player is in a solid macro game.
you can say a lot of things about the 12 worker start in LotV but not that it is more coin flip than the 6 worker start in HotS/WoL.
In the example that you brought up: a simple SCV scout after the barack completed and a second scout with the reaper and everyone can react properly.
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Will there be a stream or something?
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Haaa, the leaks are all true and correct. I misunderstand the original Chinese post about ghost's cloak. It has cloak by default but not permanent.
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Lol the chinese guy was right!
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I don't see how a stalker change/buff is going to make up for the mothership core as early defence for Protoss, going to be very tough holding off 1 base all ins I think and PvP might just be terrible.
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Some of these changes are good. Unfortunately, there are a lot of bad and not exciting changes. What I mean by not exciting is that they don't make me go launch SC2. For example, slowing down stalker's dps is bad.. Not getting rid of units like oracle and widow mine is also bad.
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China6279 Posts
lmao I don't know who the leaker is but I guess someone at Netease/Blizzard China will be in trouble.
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