I made a google doc to calculate the DPS change from 1.06 to 1.07. Feel free to add to the OP.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmmRsTeOweASdE1iUkdkZUtZN1V6cExZbXZEQW96TFE

Add in the average base min/max values from here.

Will be sad times if my 1120 dps, lifesteal, socket wand becomes an 890 dps wand. I have a hard time imagining this going through as it will destroy almost all archon builds, but given the IAS change I also wouldn't be surprised.

Big G

Italy835 Posts

January 20 2013 19:49 GMT

#42

On January 21 2013 04:42 Eschaton wrote:
I made a google doc to calculate the DPS change from 1.06 to 1.07.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmmRsTeOweASdE1iUkdkZUtZN1V6cExZbXZEQW96TFE

Add in the average base min/max values from here.

Will be sad times if my 1120 dps, lifesteal, socket wand becomes an 890 dps wand. I have a hard time imagining this going through as it will destroy almost all archon builds, but given the IAS change I also wouldn't be surprised.

They specifically said that they won't do other changes like that. Now this should be a bit different, as "bug fix", so everything is possible I guess.

oneofthem

Cayman Islands16638 Posts

January 20 2013 20:12 GMT

#43

yay manticore

Infernal_dream

United States2143 Posts

January 20 2013 20:17 GMT

#44

On January 21 2013 04:49 Big G wrote:

Show nested quote +

They specifically said that they won't do other changes like that. Now this should be a bit different, as "bug fix", so everything is possible I guess.

Meh, if it's a bug let them fix it. I hope everyones dps goes down so everything gets a little harder again.

Shinna1989

5 Posts

January 20 2013 20:23 GMT

#45

Edit: I was wrong with my post.

Gescom

Canada2851 Posts

January 20 2013 20:25 GMT

#46

Every item you posted has %dmg. How does this factor in? If the +%dmg is applied to the base weapon first, wouldn't this alleviate the concern about the min > max ?

I don't think Blizzard would nerf items like this.
I also don't think it would be in the notes if it wasn't "active".....

Fuchsteufelswild

Australia2027 Posts

January 20 2013 20:30 GMT

#47

So let me get this straight. I haven't been playing D3 in a while, check this, they're nerfing some very strong weapons, but Manticores are NOT being nerfed?
The heck?
Can you still get critical damage AND 2 sockets on them? If so, why the hell aren't the changing that too, or was something to do with critical damage nerfed after patch 1.05 that I haven't read?

FallDownMarigold

United States3702 Posts

January 20 2013 21:22 GMT

#48

On January 21 2013 05:30 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:
So let me get this straight. I haven't been playing D3 in a while, check this, they're nerfing some very strong weapons, but Manticores are NOT being nerfed?
The heck?
Can you still get critical damage AND 2 sockets on them? If so, why the hell aren't the changing that too, or was something to do with critical damage nerfed after patch 1.05 that I haven't read?

The only thing we have straight here is that we don't know anything for certain. The OP was just doing some speculation and "worst case scenario" thinking

Personally I don't think such a dramatic change could possibly enter the game. If so, then I absolutely can't imagine Blizzard not warning people in advance, so if it's going to happen and to the extent the OP describes, we should all know about it well in advance.

Ryps

Romania2724 Posts

January 20 2013 21:50 GMT

#49

On January 20 2013 16:35 yokohama wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yeah, I bet that guy that paid all that money isn't too happy!

I dont think he really cares, his stream showed him playing CS GO and other crap, and he was level 50+ paragon when he got it. Probably not that much money for him.

Black Gun

Germany4482 Posts

January 20 2013 21:50 GMT

#50

well, the issue is that it will not only make many weapons much worse, it will also disturb the class balance. almost all barbs use weapons that are affected by this, while almost no dhs do. same for wizards: most cm wizards use chantodos which isnt affected, most archon builds use a black weapon and triumvirate. in general, the value of triumvirate will suffer a lot from this. same for, e.g., zuni boots. so everyone who invested a fortune in almost perfect triumvirates or zuni boots will also be royally pissed off.

what pisses me off the most is that i just spent the majority of my funds on an echoing fury. i had 2 ef's to choose from with almost identical price and dps. since i prefer reliability over burst, i chose the one with higher min and lower max dam. so my 1215 dps 1.06 ef will become a crappy 1030 dps weapon after the patch if this change does indeed go through.

but still i think it would be better to "implement" this bug on elemental damage type weapons as well, or to change the way marquise rubies work. you gotta keep in mind that they want to keep the current playerbase as potential buyers of the expansion and that they dont want to risk alienating potential rmah customers by setting too many precedences of items losing the majority of their value by patches. yes, they do warn everyone about the possibility that this might happen, but still no one will buy items for real money anymore if items are devalued every other month...

Shinna1989

5 Posts

January 20 2013 21:59 GMT

#51

The blue quote is taken from:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592202049#1
Hello everyone, and welcome to PTR Patch 1.0.7! Below you will find the Known Issues list for our 1.0.7 patch (patch notes are available here).
...
MinMaxDam Affix is calculating the damage bonus on weapon incorrectly.
....

If blizzard is supposed to change anything about it why its not all over the major d3 fansites like diablofans? Cuz OP so smart and the only person could read this? I realy doubt it.

And keep in mind all legendaries roll based on their own affixes. They only share the base avg. dmg with white weapons and thats it. But feel free to sell your black weapons cheap on ah. Im going to buy em all and resell em with a huge profit.

D3Sanc

United States16 Posts

January 20 2013 22:22 GMT

#52

I hope you don't mind Burfoot, I reposted this over on our site. Great write-up!

http://www.d3sanc.com/news/minmax-damage-changes-rob-pardo-jay-wilson-easy-fixes

Burrfoot

United States1176 Posts

January 20 2013 23:33 GMT

#53

Lol nice, you even kept the lame order of calculations "Bugged!".

On January 21 2013 05:23 Shinna1989 wrote:
All legendaries roll based on their own affixes!

So an EF rolls based on: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/echoing-fury
Skorn rolls baed on: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/skorn

Using white weapons is completly wrong and missleading.

On January 21 2013 06:59 Shinna1989 wrote:
And keep in mind all legendaries roll based on their own affixes. They only share the base avg. dmg with white weapons and thats it.

While this is true, the point is that the order in which the weapon damage is calculated just pulls the data from these MinMaxDam Affix, as listed here: http://www.d3lexicon.com/affix

On January 21 2013 06:22 FallDownMarigold wrote:
The only thing we have straight here is that we don't know anything for certain. The OP was just doing some speculation and "worst case scenario" thinking

Pretty much, it was thing I noticed when I couldn't figure out how the shown weapon dps was actually calculated, and the B.Max = B.Min+min+1, and N.Max = B.Max+max but only under certain conditions. The assumption is that weapons that currently don't take advantage of this "double-dip" would with the new rubies, but it's all speculation until Blue clarifies their position as the MinMaxDam Affix is vague enough to cause confusion.

On January 21 2013 06:50 Black Gun wrote:
but still i think it would be better to "implement" this bug on elemental damage type weapons as well, or to change the way marquise rubies work.

That is the other side of the argument, just buff elemental damage to take advantage of % Damage and +Elemental Damage modifiers, and make everyone just as mad when something like this crappy 992.5 shenlong gets buffed to 1133 dps (elem damage moved from after to before the 1.5 multiplier ) This is a cry being made by Demon Hunters afraid Calamity will be nerfed and Manticore will be the only option.

On January 21 2013 07:22 D3Sanc wrote:
I hope you don't mind Burfoot, I reposted this over on our site. Great write-up!

http://www.d3sanc.com/news/minmax-damage-changes-rob-pardo-jay-wilson-easy-fixes

Sure, now I hope I'm not completely wrong and everyone makes fun of my

But another nod towards the "the 1.07 fix is for jewlry only!!!" prayer comes from this tidbit from the 1.03 patch notes:

Which sort of makes sense since currently on LIVE, you can find jewelry with all sorts of different descriptions of min/max as shown here

So if the jewelry listing in the picture above gets fixed from "+28-57 damage" to +28 Minimum +29 Maximum it would be the "best case" instead of the "worst case" I described in the first post. There are other discoveries people have made that I should probably mention, but only when testing really low level weapons. (Where a large +min damage bonus from jewelery 'over-whelms' a +max affix and resulting in zero damage bonus.

tl;dr: This is why the topic was titled: POSSIBLE, no one will know for sure if this is what will happen or if this is what they meant by their vague known bug fix.

Shinna1989

5 Posts

January 20 2013 23:50 GMT

#54

f the Base Min + Min affix > Base Max, then the Base Max got set equal to Base Min + Min affix + 1

Thats to prevent havin weapons with higher min then max. dmg. so imo this is intended atm since its possible to roll only mind. dmg on a weapon. If blizzard realy wants to change it then they have to check if there is a min and max. roll ...

Diminisherqc

Canada219 Posts

January 21 2013 00:35 GMT

#55

Hum out of topic ... but .. are you the same burrfoot that played wow a gnome warrior on earthen ring ?

RusHXceL

United States1004 Posts

January 21 2013 01:14 GMT

#56

On January 21 2013 04:42 Eschaton wrote:
I made a google doc to calculate the DPS change from 1.06 to 1.07. Feel free to add to the OP.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmmRsTeOweASdE1iUkdkZUtZN1V6cExZbXZEQW96TFE

Add in the average base min/max values from here.

Will be sad times if my 1120 dps, lifesteal, socket wand becomes an 890 dps wand. I have a hard time imagining this going through as it will destroy almost all archon builds, but given the IAS change I also wouldn't be surprised.

Lol you let anyone to edit it.

Burrfoot

United States1176 Posts

January 21 2013 03:18 GMT

#57

On January 21 2013 09:35 Diminisherqc wrote:
Hum out of topic ... but .. are you the same burrfoot that played wow a gnome warrior on earthen ring ?

You know, I've been asked that more than once while I was playing WoW, and my answer is always: YES! Last time I played was during the 10-day free MoP trial (unimpressed). My epic fail warrior:

On January 21 2013 10:14 RusHXceL wrote:
Lol you let anyone to edit it.

Jeez, people bombed that document.

Eschaton

United States1242 Posts

January 21 2013 03:21 GMT

#58

On January 21 2013 10:14 RusHXceL wrote:

Show nested quote +

Lol you let anyone to edit it.

I locked the cells that matter. People can save a copy.

Edit: Also people are retards and can't follow directions.

Edit 2: Apparently the "name and protect" function isn't working very well.

Shinna1989

5 Posts

January 21 2013 07:02 GMT

#59

Lets compare a black weapon and an elemental dmg weapon based on a 6 affix roll:

Black Weapon:
- Min Dmg
- Max. Dmg
- Dmg Modifier
- Socket
- Crit Dmg
- 1 Affix left

Elemental Dmg Weapon:
- Elemental Dmg Affix
- Dmg Modfier(only works for the base dmg of the weapon)
- Socket
- Crit Dmg.
- 2 Affix left

So if both weapons roll lets say lifesteal the elemental dmg weapon could still roll a high mainstat on top. If they change the way the dmg/dps calculation is done for black weapons this would lead either to overpowered elemental dmg. weapons or they have to introduce a single affix for the "non elemental dmg" part.

justiceknight

Singapore3773 Posts

January 21 2013 07:28 GMT

#60

after reading this thread i was wondering if the OP's calculation are legit or Blizz's staff posted those stats elsewhere....