| Eschaton United States. January 20 2013 19:42. Posts 1216 | Gift TL+ Profile # |
I made a google doc to calculate the DPS change from 1.06 to 1.07. Feel free to add to the OP.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmmRsTeOweASdE1iUkdkZUtZN1V6cExZbXZEQW96TFE
Add in the average base min/max values from here.
Will be sad times if my 1120 dps, lifesteal, socket wand becomes an 890 dps wand. I have a hard time imagining this going through as it will destroy almost all archon builds, but given the IAS change I also wouldn't be surprised.Last edit: 2013-01-20 19:47:01 |
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| Big G Italy. January 20 2013 19:49. Posts 644 | Gift TL+ Profile # |
On January 21 2013 04:42 Eschaton wrote:I made a google doc to calculate the DPS change from 1.06 to 1.07. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmmRsTeOweASdE1iUkdkZUtZN1V6cExZbXZEQW96TFEAdd in the average base min/max values from here. Will be sad times if my 1120 dps, lifesteal, socket wand becomes an 890 dps wand. I have a hard time imagining this going through as it will destroy almost all archon builds, but given the IAS change I also wouldn't be surprised.
They specifically said that they won't do other changes like that. Now this should be a bit different, as "bug fix", so everything is possible I guess. |
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| oneofthem Cayman Islands. January 20 2013 20:12. Posts 13851 | Gift TL+ Profile Blog # | |
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| Infernal_dream United States. January 20 2013 20:17. Posts 2143 | Gift TL+ Profile # |
On January 21 2013 04:49 Big G wrote:They specifically said that they won't do other changes like that. Now this should be a bit different, as "bug fix", so everything is possible I guess.
Meh, if it's a bug let them fix it. I hope everyones dps goes down so everything gets a little harder again. |
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 Shinna1989 January 20 2013 20:23. Posts 5 | Gift TL+ Profile # |
Edit: I was wrong with my post.  Last edit: 2013-01-21 10:37:17 |
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| Gescom Canada. January 20 2013 20:25. Posts 2826 | Gift TL+ Profile # |
Every item you posted has %dmg. How does this factor in? If the +%dmg is applied to the base weapon first, wouldn't this alleviate the concern about the min > max ?
I don't think Blizzard would nerf items like this.
I also don't think it would be in the notes if it wasn't "active"..... |
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| Fuchsteufelswild Australia. January 20 2013 20:30. Posts 1793 | Gift TL+ Profile # |
So let me get this straight. I haven't been playing D3 in a while, check this, they're nerfing some very strong weapons, but Manticores are NOT being nerfed?
The heck?
Can you still get critical damage AND 2 sockets on them? If so, why the hell aren't the changing that too, or was something to do with critical damage nerfed after patch 1.05 that I haven't read? |
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| FallDownMarigold United States. January 20 2013 21:22. Posts 3699 | Gift TL+ Profile Blog # |
On January 21 2013 05:30 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:
So let me get this straight. I haven't been playing D3 in a while, check this, they're nerfing some very strong weapons, but Manticores are NOT being nerfed?
The heck?
Can you still get critical damage AND 2 sockets on them? If so, why the hell aren't the changing that too, or was something to do with critical damage nerfed after patch 1.05 that I haven't read?
The only thing we have straight here is that we don't know anything for certain. The OP was just doing some speculation and "worst case scenario" thinking
Personally I don't think such a dramatic change could possibly enter the game. If so, then I absolutely can't imagine Blizzard not warning people in advance, so if it's going to happen and to the extent the OP describes, we should all know about it well in advance.
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| Ryps Romania. January 20 2013 21:50. Posts 2724 | Gift TL+ Profile Blog # |
On January 20 2013 16:35 yokohama wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 20 2013 15:53 RusHXceL wrote:
lol sucks for the #1 echoing fury to get downgraded :p
Yeah, I bet that guy that paid all that money isn't too happy!
I dont think he really cares, his stream showed him playing CS GO and other crap, and he was level 50+ paragon when he got it. Probably not that much money for him.Last edit: 2013-01-20 21:50:15 |
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| Black Gun Germany. January 20 2013 21:50. Posts 4363 | Gift TL+ Profile Blog # |
well, the issue is that it will not only make many weapons much worse, it will also disturb the class balance. almost all barbs use weapons that are affected by this, while almost no dhs do. same for wizards: most cm wizards use chantodos which isnt affected, most archon builds use a black weapon and triumvirate. in general, the value of triumvirate will suffer a lot from this. same for, e.g., zuni boots. so everyone who invested a fortune in almost perfect triumvirates or zuni boots will also be royally pissed off.
what pisses me off the most is that i just spent the majority of my funds on an echoing fury. i had 2 ef's to choose from with almost identical price and dps. since i prefer reliability over burst, i chose the one with higher min and lower max dam. so my 1215 dps 1.06 ef will become a crappy 1030 dps weapon after the patch if this change does indeed go through.
but still i think it would be better to "implement" this bug on elemental damage type weapons as well, or to change the way marquise rubies work. you gotta keep in mind that they want to keep the current playerbase as potential buyers of the expansion and that they dont want to risk alienating potential rmah customers by setting too many precedences of items losing the majority of their value by patches. yes, they do warn everyone about the possibility that this might happen, but still no one will buy items for real money anymore if items are devalued every other month...Last edit: 2013-01-20 22:04:56 |
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| Burrfoot United States. January 20 2013 23:33. Posts 1166 | Gift TL+ Profile Blog # |
Lol nice, you even kept the lame order of calculations "Bugged!".
On January 21 2013 06:59 Shinna1989 wrote:
And keep in mind all legendaries roll based on their own affixes. They only share the base avg. dmg with white weapons and thats it.
While this is true, the point is that the order in which the weapon damage is calculated just pulls the data from these MinMaxDam Affix, as listed here: http://www.d3lexicon.com/affix
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/alC439jl.png)
On January 21 2013 06:22 FallDownMarigold wrote:
The only thing we have straight here is that we don't know anything for certain. The OP was just doing some speculation and "worst case scenario" thinking
Pretty much, it was thing I noticed when I couldn't figure out how the shown weapon dps was actually calculated, and the B.Max = B.Min+min+1, and N.Max = B.Max+max but only under certain conditions. The assumption is that weapons that currently don't take advantage of this "double-dip" would with the new rubies, but it's all speculation until Blue clarifies their position as the MinMaxDam Affix is vague enough to cause confusion.
On January 21 2013 06:50 Black Gun wrote:
but still i think it would be better to "implement" this bug on elemental damage type weapons as well, or to change the way marquise rubies work.
That is the other side of the argument, just buff elemental damage to take advantage of % Damage and +Elemental Damage modifiers, and make everyone just as mad when something like this crappy 992.5 shenlong gets buffed to 1133 dps (elem damage moved from after to before the 1.5 multiplier ) This is a cry being made by Demon Hunters afraid Calamity will be nerfed and Manticore will be the only option.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ybklQfal.png)
Sure, now I hope I'm not completely wrong and everyone makes fun of my
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sMQpk5zl.png)
But another nod towards the "the 1.07 fix is for jewlry only!!!" prayer comes from this tidbit from the 1.03 patch notes:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/V0kvSdR.png)
Which sort of makes sense since currently on LIVE, you can find jewelry with all sorts of different descriptions of min/max as shown here
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mRbsZ0q.png)
So if the jewelry listing in the picture above gets fixed from "+28-57 damage" to +28 Minimum +29 Maximum it would be the "best case" instead of the "worst case" I described in the first post. There are other discoveries people have made that I should probably mention, but only when testing really low level weapons. (Where a large +min damage bonus from jewelery 'over-whelms' a +max affix and resulting in zero damage bonus.
tl;dr: This is why the topic was titled: POSSIBLE, no one will know for sure if this is what will happen or if this is what they meant by their vague known bug fix. Last edit: 2013-01-21 03:07:41 |
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| Shinna1989 January 20 2013 23:50. Posts 5 | Gift TL+ Profile # |
f the Base Min + Min affix > Base Max, then the Base Max got set equal to Base Min + Min affix + 1
Thats to prevent havin weapons with higher min then max. dmg. so imo this is intended atm since its possible to roll only mind. dmg on a weapon. If blizzard realy wants to change it then they have to check if there is a min and max. roll ... |
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| Diminisherqc Canada. January 21 2013 00:35. Posts 218 | Gift TL+ Profile # |
| Hum out of topic ... but .. are you the same burrfoot that played wow a gnome warrior on earthen ring ? |
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| RusHXceL United States. January 21 2013 01:14. Posts 1004 | Gift TL+ Profile # |
On January 21 2013 04:42 Eschaton wrote:I made a google doc to calculate the DPS change from 1.06 to 1.07. Feel free to add to the OP. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmmRsTeOweASdE1iUkdkZUtZN1V6cExZbXZEQW96TFEAdd in the average base min/max values from here. Will be sad times if my 1120 dps, lifesteal, socket wand becomes an 890 dps wand. I have a hard time imagining this going through as it will destroy almost all archon builds, but given the IAS change I also wouldn't be surprised.
Lol you let anyone to edit it. |
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| Burrfoot United States. January 21 2013 03:18. Posts 1166 | Gift TL+ Profile Blog # |
On January 21 2013 09:35 Diminisherqc wrote:
Hum out of topic ... but .. are you the same burrfoot that played wow a gnome warrior on earthen ring ?
You know, I've been asked that more than once while I was playing WoW, and my answer is always: YES! Last time I played was during the 10-day free MoP trial (unimpressed). My epic fail warrior:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Qv9sMbm.png)
On January 21 2013 10:14 RusHXceL wrote:
Lol you let anyone to edit it.
Jeez, people bombed that document. |
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| Eschaton United States. January 21 2013 03:21. Posts 1216 | Gift TL+ Profile # |
On January 21 2013 10:14 RusHXceL wrote:Lol you let anyone to edit it.
I locked the cells that matter. People can save a copy.
Edit: Also people are retards and can't follow directions.
Edit 2: Apparently the "name and protect" function isn't working very well. Last edit: 2013-01-21 04:46:42 |
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| Shinna1989 January 21 2013 07:02. Posts 5 | Gift TL+ Profile # |
Lets compare a black weapon and an elemental dmg weapon based on a 6 affix roll:
Black Weapon:
- Min Dmg
- Max. Dmg
- Dmg Modifier
- Socket
- Crit Dmg
- 1 Affix left
Elemental Dmg Weapon:
- Elemental Dmg Affix
- Dmg Modfier(only works for the base dmg of the weapon)
- Socket
- Crit Dmg.
- 2 Affix left
So if both weapons roll lets say lifesteal the elemental dmg weapon could still roll a high mainstat on top. If they change the way the dmg/dps calculation is done for black weapons this would lead either to overpowered elemental dmg. weapons or they have to introduce a single affix for the "non elemental dmg" part.
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| justiceknight Singapore. January 21 2013 07:28. Posts 3533 | Gift TL+ Profile Blog # |
| after reading this thread i was wondering if the OP's calculation are legit or Blizz's staff posted those stats elsewhere.... |
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And keep in mind all legendaries roll based on their own affixes. They only share the base avg. dmg with white weapons and thats it. But feel free to sell your black weapons cheap on ah. Im going to buy em all and resell em with a huge profit. 
