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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
I think this might be the start of Margaery's real power grab. She strengthened her position with ALL parties involved. - She now has the support of the Faith. - She's got Tommen, the King, completely wrapped around her finger. - The Faith and the Crown together really is what gives you the support of the People. - She weakened Cercei's influence over Tommen. - She weakened her family's influence over herself.
It's hard to say how long the alliance with the Faith is gonna last: she wants to free her brother. It'll have to last as long as Tommen is alive, and think about it: if Tommen impregnates her with an heir and then dies, she is now the Queen Regent (basically King) while her child grows up, as Cersei was while Joffrey was growing up after Robert died.
If she can free her brother (or just write him off, I guess), keep the alliance with the Faith intact (thus keeping the support of the people, though I think she'd do even more for them), AND manage to become Queen Regent, she'd basically have it made until Danaerys makes her way over or the wall fails. It'd be interesting to see what she does with the standing army and border defense.
Actually maybe she could settle for just having Tommen under her thumb.
edit: oops this was supposed to go in the show thread, lol.
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Zurich15205 Posts
On May 31 2016 07:05 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2016 18:39 daemir wrote: Holy..was that Horn Hill? A bit more grand than I expected out of a lesser House. Geez.
Also, Samwell the son, blond hair, both Sam and Gilly looking pretty dark haired there, not suspicious? I confess I don't really know how these things work, but... Tarlys are meant to be the second richest house after the Lannisters and smug as fuck about the fact that they have a Targ sword and the Lannisters don't. It looked fine. Smug as fuck surely, but certainly not richer than the Tyrells. In terms of wealth any of the great houses should come before the Tarlys actually, if only for the levy they are allowed to pull in.
But man Sam's dad, what a perfect cast. Spot on delivery.
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I think Margaery is playing at something. There were subtle clues in her facial expressions while the Jaime-HS confrontation was happening. She almost looked relieved a couple of times. If she really did turn, it would be horrible writing.
Now, about that chapter summary... damn. That is wicked cool. It makes me all the more sad that we're not going to get that Euron in the show.
I cannot wait for TWOW. :-(
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Hey show Euron says something like "let's go murder them*" (*talking about theon and 'Yara') so he is pretty cool right It's a shame that they are in a rush to come to an end right now, GRRM still needs at least 2 books the size of ASOS and D&D are only using about 20 episodes for that while using 20 for ASOS alone. It simply shows...
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On May 31 2016 08:53 The_Red_Viper wrote:Hey show Euron says something like "let's go murder them*" (*talking about theon and 'Yara') so he is pretty cool right It's a shame that they are in a rush to come to an end right now, GRRM still needs at least 2 books the size of ASOS and D&D are only using about 20 episodes for that while using 20 for ASOS alone. It simply shows...
Then stop watching. If you really think it's that awful, why suffer? I never understood how people can dislike watching something and keep watching :s.
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On May 31 2016 09:41 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2016 08:53 The_Red_Viper wrote:Hey show Euron says something like "let's go murder them*" (*talking about theon and 'Yara') so he is pretty cool right It's a shame that they are in a rush to come to an end right now, GRRM still needs at least 2 books the size of ASOS and D&D are only using about 20 episodes for that while using 20 for ASOS alone. It simply shows... Then stop watching. If you really think it's that awful, why suffer? I never understood how people can dislike watching something and keep watching :s. I don't suffer and don't think "it's awful". It's bad compared to the books and got worse compared to the first seasons, but all things considered it is still good enough to watch it every week. I don't have to pretend that it is oh so amazing though, maybe you should simply ignore my posts regarding the show if you get triggered so much by it
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On May 31 2016 07:30 Barrin wrote: I think this might be the start of Margaery's real power grab. She strengthened her position with ALL parties involved. - She now has the support of the Faith. - She's got Tommen, the King, completely wrapped around her finger. - The Faith and the Crown together really is what gives you the support of the People. - She weakened Cercei's influence over Tommen. - She weakened her family's influence over herself.
It's hard to say how long the alliance with the Faith is gonna last: she wants to free her brother. It'll have to last as long as Tommen is alive, and think about it: if Tommen impregnates her with an heir and then dies, she is now the Queen Regent (basically King) while her child grows up, as Cersei was while Joffrey was growing up after Robert died.
If she can free her brother (or just write him off, I guess), keep the alliance with the Faith intact (thus keeping the support of the people, though I think she'd do even more for them), AND manage to become Queen Regent, she'd basically have it made until Danaerys makes her way over or the wall fails. It'd be interesting to see what she does with the standing army and border defense.
Actually maybe she could settle for just having Tommen under her thumb.
edit: oops this was supposed to go in the show thread, lol.
This is a valiant attempt to justify a plot twist that unfortunately still doesn't make any sense to me. Her support of the Faith comes at the cost of the support of her family, which is necessarily a net loss. She had Tommen and the support of the masses before she even declared for the Faith too. As for her family, she and her grandmother have been on the same side working towards the same goal from day one.
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I like the King's Landing plotline. I'd've been disappointed if the Sparrow had died this ep, although I do really hate his character. Too soon.
It's interesting, but the plotline makes me root for the Lannister twins. Because while they may be vile, they are at least brutally honest with themselves about who they are ("we are the only people that exist"). I think the High Sparrow is honest in a way, but I don't think he's sincere. He tells that story to Margaery about how he learned to abandon his desire for social acceptance and power, but really: wielding power is all he desires. He dictates through self-righteousness and pretending to speak for gods that seem to be completely absent. I hope we see Jaime kill him.
On May 31 2016 12:16 writer22816 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2016 07:30 Barrin wrote: I think this might be the start of Margaery's real power grab. She strengthened her position with ALL parties involved. - She now has the support of the Faith. - She's got Tommen, the King, completely wrapped around her finger. - The Faith and the Crown together really is what gives you the support of the People. - She weakened Cercei's influence over Tommen. - She weakened her family's influence over herself.
It's hard to say how long the alliance with the Faith is gonna last: she wants to free her brother. It'll have to last as long as Tommen is alive, and think about it: if Tommen impregnates her with an heir and then dies, she is now the Queen Regent (basically King) while her child grows up, as Cersei was while Joffrey was growing up after Robert died.
If she can free her brother (or just write him off, I guess), keep the alliance with the Faith intact (thus keeping the support of the people, though I think she'd do even more for them), AND manage to become Queen Regent, she'd basically have it made until Danaerys makes her way over or the wall fails. It'd be interesting to see what she does with the standing army and border defense.
Actually maybe she could settle for just having Tommen under her thumb.
edit: oops this was supposed to go in the show thread, lol. This is a valiant attempt to justify a plot twist that unfortunately still doesn't make any sense to me. Her support of the Faith comes at the cost of the support of her family, which is necessarily a net loss. She had Tommen and the support of the masses before she even declared for the Faith too. As for her family, she and her grandmother have been on the same side working towards the same goal from day one.
She's shown no signs of any real change in her beliefs or desires to this point.
What has she seen from her husband that would give her any confidence in his ability to actually use the power he's supposed to have, that he would free her? She knows he's ineffectual, she's been learning that every day she's sitting in the dungeon and not in her luxurious castle. She doesn't/didn't know Jaime and the Tyrell parents were going to act on their own to free her until the day of her public "atonement".
She certainly didn't want to do the Walk of Atonement, I'm sure. She doesn't have the support of the masses, as you say -- at least not to the extent that the Sparrow does. She was set to be humiliated.
What should she have done? She secured herself from the Walk of Atonement the only way she could know would work: by making an alliance between the King and the Sparrow. Of course that's what his Holiness has been after from day one. Being stronger than her husband in many ways, and having influence on him, this was a logical next step for her.
Instead of walking buck-naked through the masses who are being told to jeer at her, she gets to act like a Queen.
I don't think she found Jesus. I'm much more inclined to believe she's just being cunning and practical. She'll abandon the Sparrow as soon as she thinks it's best.
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On May 31 2016 07:55 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2016 07:05 KwarK wrote:On May 30 2016 18:39 daemir wrote: Holy..was that Horn Hill? A bit more grand than I expected out of a lesser House. Geez.
Also, Samwell the son, blond hair, both Sam and Gilly looking pretty dark haired there, not suspicious? I confess I don't really know how these things work, but... Tarlys are meant to be the second richest house after the Lannisters and smug as fuck about the fact that they have a Targ sword and the Lannisters don't. It looked fine. Smug as fuck surely, but certainly not richer than the Tyrells. In terms of wealth any of the great houses should come before the Tarlys actually, if only for the levy they are allowed to pull in. But man Sam's dad, what a perfect cast. Spot on delivery.
Pretty sure the Hightowers of Oldtown are supposed to be the Tyrells' biggest rivals down there.
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United States40728 Posts
On May 31 2016 07:55 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2016 07:05 KwarK wrote:On May 30 2016 18:39 daemir wrote: Holy..was that Horn Hill? A bit more grand than I expected out of a lesser House. Geez.
Also, Samwell the son, blond hair, both Sam and Gilly looking pretty dark haired there, not suspicious? I confess I don't really know how these things work, but... Tarlys are meant to be the second richest house after the Lannisters and smug as fuck about the fact that they have a Targ sword and the Lannisters don't. It looked fine. Smug as fuck surely, but certainly not richer than the Tyrells. In terms of wealth any of the great houses should come before the Tarlys actually, if only for the levy they are allowed to pull in. But man Sam's dad, what a perfect cast. Spot on delivery. I can't give you a page citation but I'm pretty sure Tarly's are #2. Just because you're someone's bannerman doesn't mean you're not rich as fuck.
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On May 31 2016 07:55 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2016 07:05 KwarK wrote:On May 30 2016 18:39 daemir wrote: Holy..was that Horn Hill? A bit more grand than I expected out of a lesser House. Geez.
Also, Samwell the son, blond hair, both Sam and Gilly looking pretty dark haired there, not suspicious? I confess I don't really know how these things work, but... Tarlys are meant to be the second richest house after the Lannisters and smug as fuck about the fact that they have a Targ sword and the Lannisters don't. It looked fine. Smug as fuck surely, but certainly not richer than the Tyrells. In terms of wealth any of the great houses should come before the Tarlys actually, if only for the levy they are allowed to pull in.
Levies are not really tied to wealth though. I'm not so sure the Lord Paramount houses are by default wealthier than some of their subjects. I can't imagine Manderlys are worse off than Starks, ruling over the undisputed trade center of the north. Nor that Tyrells are so much wealthier than Redwynes, seeing as Arbor is pretty much a synonym for wealth and prosperity in Westeros.
Of course, we don't really have any information on how taxes work and all, but at least in the North and Reach, the ruling house does not directly control the wealthiest provinces.
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On May 31 2016 07:05 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2016 18:39 daemir wrote: Holy..was that Horn Hill? A bit more grand than I expected out of a lesser House. Geez.
Also, Samwell the son, blond hair, both Sam and Gilly looking pretty dark haired there, not suspicious? I confess I don't really know how these things work, but... Tarlys are meant to be the second richest house after the Lannisters and smug as fuck about the fact that they have a Targ sword and the Lannisters don't. It looked fine.
I'm sorry, but where is this info from? I've read the book series a good 5-6 times in the past few years and I just looked over asoiaf wiki and can't find any other mention that they are a house old in honor with rich lands, but nothing to indicate they would be richer than say Tyrells, Redwynes or even Manderlys.
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United States40728 Posts
On May 31 2016 23:14 daemir wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2016 07:05 KwarK wrote:On May 30 2016 18:39 daemir wrote: Holy..was that Horn Hill? A bit more grand than I expected out of a lesser House. Geez.
Also, Samwell the son, blond hair, both Sam and Gilly looking pretty dark haired there, not suspicious? I confess I don't really know how these things work, but... Tarlys are meant to be the second richest house after the Lannisters and smug as fuck about the fact that they have a Targ sword and the Lannisters don't. It looked fine. I'm sorry, but where is this info from? I've read the book series a good 5-6 times in the past few years and I just looked over asoiaf wiki and can't find any other mention that they are a house old in honor with rich lands, but nothing to indicate they would be richer than say Tyrells, Redwynes or even Manderlys. Sam Blurted. "My father always said he was as wealthy as the Lannisters, and could command thrice as many swords as any of Highgarden's other bannermen."
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On June 01 2016 01:05 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2016 23:14 daemir wrote:On May 31 2016 07:05 KwarK wrote:On May 30 2016 18:39 daemir wrote: Holy..was that Horn Hill? A bit more grand than I expected out of a lesser House. Geez.
Also, Samwell the son, blond hair, both Sam and Gilly looking pretty dark haired there, not suspicious? I confess I don't really know how these things work, but... Tarlys are meant to be the second richest house after the Lannisters and smug as fuck about the fact that they have a Targ sword and the Lannisters don't. It looked fine. I'm sorry, but where is this info from? I've read the book series a good 5-6 times in the past few years and I just looked over asoiaf wiki and can't find any other mention that they are a house old in honor with rich lands, but nothing to indicate they would be richer than say Tyrells, Redwynes or even Manderlys. Sam Blurted. "My father always said he was as wealthy as the Lannisters, and could command thrice as many swords as any of Highgarden's other bannermen." I mean he can say whatever he wants tbh. That is still pretty unrealiable if it's the only mention of it. I would rather say the only thing we can safely assume out of this is that the Tarly's are extremely rich. Also for people not knowing the site: https://asearchoficeandfire.com/
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United States40728 Posts
On June 01 2016 01:09 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2016 01:05 KwarK wrote:On May 31 2016 23:14 daemir wrote:On May 31 2016 07:05 KwarK wrote:On May 30 2016 18:39 daemir wrote: Holy..was that Horn Hill? A bit more grand than I expected out of a lesser House. Geez.
Also, Samwell the son, blond hair, both Sam and Gilly looking pretty dark haired there, not suspicious? I confess I don't really know how these things work, but... Tarlys are meant to be the second richest house after the Lannisters and smug as fuck about the fact that they have a Targ sword and the Lannisters don't. It looked fine. I'm sorry, but where is this info from? I've read the book series a good 5-6 times in the past few years and I just looked over asoiaf wiki and can't find any other mention that they are a house old in honor with rich lands, but nothing to indicate they would be richer than say Tyrells, Redwynes or even Manderlys. Sam Blurted. "My father always said he was as wealthy as the Lannisters, and could command thrice as many swords as any of Highgarden's other bannermen." I mean he can say whatever he wants tbh. That is still pretty unrealiable if it's the only mention of it. I would rather say the only thing we can safely assume out of this is that the Tarly's are extremely rich. Also for people not knowing the site: https://asearchoficeandfire.com/ ty for the link. Using it gave context that it was referring to the Florents, not the Tarlys. I may have misremembered it from the book based upon the quote.
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I was always under the impression that the hightowers were the most wealthy family in the reach other than the tyrells, definitely never thought the tarlys were
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On June 01 2016 01:13 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2016 01:09 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 01 2016 01:05 KwarK wrote:On May 31 2016 23:14 daemir wrote:On May 31 2016 07:05 KwarK wrote:On May 30 2016 18:39 daemir wrote: Holy..was that Horn Hill? A bit more grand than I expected out of a lesser House. Geez.
Also, Samwell the son, blond hair, both Sam and Gilly looking pretty dark haired there, not suspicious? I confess I don't really know how these things work, but... Tarlys are meant to be the second richest house after the Lannisters and smug as fuck about the fact that they have a Targ sword and the Lannisters don't. It looked fine. I'm sorry, but where is this info from? I've read the book series a good 5-6 times in the past few years and I just looked over asoiaf wiki and can't find any other mention that they are a house old in honor with rich lands, but nothing to indicate they would be richer than say Tyrells, Redwynes or even Manderlys. Sam Blurted. "My father always said he was as wealthy as the Lannisters, and could command thrice as many swords as any of Highgarden's other bannermen." I mean he can say whatever he wants tbh. That is still pretty unrealiable if it's the only mention of it. I would rather say the only thing we can safely assume out of this is that the Tarly's are extremely rich. Also for people not knowing the site: https://asearchoficeandfire.com/ ty for the link. Using it gave context that it was referring to the Florents, not the Tarlys. I may have misremembered it from the book based upon the quote.
That was actually referring to the Hightowers. Hightowers have the Maesters and the Church of the Seven strongholds.
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don't say the Chekhov gun. that, sir, is a facile argument.
and also woefully esoteric.
oh no this is the wrong GoT thread HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN
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United States40728 Posts
On June 01 2016 04:21 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2016 01:13 KwarK wrote:On June 01 2016 01:09 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 01 2016 01:05 KwarK wrote:On May 31 2016 23:14 daemir wrote:On May 31 2016 07:05 KwarK wrote:On May 30 2016 18:39 daemir wrote: Holy..was that Horn Hill? A bit more grand than I expected out of a lesser House. Geez.
Also, Samwell the son, blond hair, both Sam and Gilly looking pretty dark haired there, not suspicious? I confess I don't really know how these things work, but... Tarlys are meant to be the second richest house after the Lannisters and smug as fuck about the fact that they have a Targ sword and the Lannisters don't. It looked fine. I'm sorry, but where is this info from? I've read the book series a good 5-6 times in the past few years and I just looked over asoiaf wiki and can't find any other mention that they are a house old in honor with rich lands, but nothing to indicate they would be richer than say Tyrells, Redwynes or even Manderlys. Sam Blurted. "My father always said he was as wealthy as the Lannisters, and could command thrice as many swords as any of Highgarden's other bannermen." I mean he can say whatever he wants tbh. That is still pretty unrealiable if it's the only mention of it. I would rather say the only thing we can safely assume out of this is that the Tarly's are extremely rich. Also for people not knowing the site: https://asearchoficeandfire.com/ ty for the link. Using it gave context that it was referring to the Florents, not the Tarlys. I may have misremembered it from the book based upon the quote. That was actually referring to the Hightowers. Hightowers have the Maesters and the Church of the Seven strongholds. rip, I read the quote and still got it wrong
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On May 31 2016 07:08 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2016 06:50 politik wrote:On May 31 2016 00:24 Sent. wrote: I'm very disappointed with this episode. It wasn't bad quality-wise but all these events are just unbelievable (besides Tommen, his actions are understandable). In my opinion Arya's plotline just surpassed Bran's in the worst plotline of the show category. It's like some cringeworthy anime and I wouldn't be surprised if she started dual wielding in the dark in the next episode.
Margeary is lying, r-right guys? The part with Margeary confused me too. Last episode she was exactly her same old manipulative self when she was talking with the sparrow and then Loras. It makes no sense that she would change that fast, I think she's using the sparrow to push out the Lannisters. She's probably underestimating them though. She has no news from the outside, she had no idea that her family were coming for her with soldiers, she was doing her best to play her husband and the High Sparrow with what she had.
Yea I'm thinking the same. She has no idea what has been happening with her grandmother, so she probably saw an opening, and took it.
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