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On May 21 2013 08:12 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 07:42 Yoav wrote:On May 21 2013 06:10 Fulla wrote:Khan in the old movie, was much older and had been trapped on adeolate planet for what 20 years? Needless to say he had gone insane by that point It's actually a fun experience to watch Space Seed (TOS Episode introducing Khan) and then Wrath of Khan and then this for a look at the evolution of one story in Star Trek. I liked the movie in spite of the plot holes. Guys, it's bloody Star Trek. How many torpedoes/shuttles did Voyager have? Why are the BoPs so ridiculously huge in "The Defector"? Why exactly don't we use transporters to replicate people of great ability? Does Voyager have a ventral torpedo tube? Why are 1,000 man ships and 40 man ships run by main crews of the same number of people with almost exactly the same ranks? Why don't missed shots that impact inert objects blow them to smithereens, given that a standard photon torpedo has a yield far in excess of 8x our most powerful hydrogen bomb? It was fun, I tried not to sweat the projectile phasers, and enjoyed it. What is BoP? A Bird of Prey. There were many issues with its size on screen, as described on this excellent site: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/bop-size.htm
The models were never true to scale in every Trek series, not even when they used CGI.
On May 21 2013 22:57 oBlade wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I have a problem with this movie's use of Khan. I don't have a categorical problem with using Khan. But in this movie, it seems blasphemous. Khan is the quintessential Star Trek villain. He's the only one who got a main character killed. Ricardo Montalban's Khan is like a historical standard. So to take the same character and put him in this random situation sullies the original Khan a bit. I mean, the real villain is section 31 I think? even though section 31 would never build starships because that's not how they operate, and then at the end Khan has like 5 minutes where he tries to take control but dies. So we're split between Khan's little amount of time as the actual villain, and the fact that the other guy, Marcus, got defeated basically by Scotty ex machina? There's basically no tension in the film. Even the cinematography. All the musical cues and reveals happen immediately. Cumberbatch's Khan is good but it's not written as a lead villain.
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The death of Kirk, for instance. That is a fucking dramatic thing to put on screen. Just like the death of Spock was. But it's not used dramatically in this movie. It just... recycles the Wrath of Khan death scene (using exactly the same lines - and making Spock yell KHAN is just so cheesy) and then Kirk is resurrected not 10 minutes later? In Star Trek 3 it took an entire movie and the destruction of the Enterprise to bring Spock back. The messages of Star Trek II and III are about sacrifice. That's why things like Spock's death happened. Killing Kirk is a really novel idea but not if you just bring him back like nothing happened.
I think Into Darkness has some interesting ideas around Kirk as far as how he can be captain and his conflict with rules/authority. But to tell that story it didn't need to cheaply rehash the death scene from The Wrath of Khan. Kirk's actual death in Generations (considered an average film I think) is a huge moment. Or at least it's supposed to be. But a 10 minute resurrection isn't very profound.
Also I can't stand the damn movie theater humor that keeps slipping into these films. The shit jokes that only get a laugh when a group of people go to a movie screening at night. Not even jokes. Just cues for shitty laughter. Like Spock's "I am not sure that qualifies." Movie cliches in general. I want them to stop sneaking into Star Trek.
A couple things I thought were fresh despite the general trend of the film were: 1) Khan's success in the debris field and rescue of Kirk. It expands upon the Khan traits we already know. We know he'll use you on his way to seizing power, but in this case even saves Kirk. 2) The classified nature of the torpedoes. The section 31 in the canon I know wouldn't be involved with weapons like that - because section 31 never shows themselves - but I like the idea of military/starfleet tension and state secrets in the future. Reminds me of MECOs on Enterprise, Voyager's omega particle, and probably other stuff. 3) When Khan killed Marcus I actually thought he was killing Scotty for shooting him in the back. I was seriously impressed. The death of Marcus, though, I didn't care about. Not because Marcus was an asshole but because I don't even know who he was. He had no introduction or motives. Plot-disposable. 4) Bones' attitude as Kirk's doctor. Reminds me again of previous doctor/captain relationships but without being a caricature of the old Bones/Kirk. For that matter, I like Kirk's conflicts. 5) Spock fighting Khan. Vulcan strength makes it a lot closer of a match. In fact, I like when Spock is the captain. He also seems more relatable due to the connection with Spock Prime. I would rather Zachary Quinto were the lead, and that Kirk hadn't been resurrected. Either make Kirk's death mean something or don't kill him because it doesn't mean anything if you bring him back in 10 minutes. + Show Spoiler +Many other main characters had been killed. TNG and DS9: + Show Spoiler +Tasha Yar permanently. Riker many times in alternate realities. Jadzia Dax. The point with Scotty is, that Section 31 simply didn't have enough manpower. Why should we always assume giant conspirational organisations? The reality is not that bleak either. ST II and III are not about sacrifrice. WoK is about Meyer as a stranger to the franchise killing off the most important or second most important character. III is about lazy writers, who realized that the franchise couldn't continue without Spock and trying to apply childish rules about trade-offs. WoK's ending (which would have been a great way to end a fifth or sixth film without any resurrection afterwards) is the reason why III and IV are such a huge mess. In that regard, I prefer a 10 minute resurrection to whole film, which makes up an endlessly stupid story for something which is not even remotely possible including children being created from cold corpses including insane growth on a planet which formed out of a nebula and some idiotic soul carrying. So I see a slight improvement there over ST II + III.
On May 21 2013 21:42 Fwizzz wrote:I like the movie overall. Even though there's a lot of plot holes. Unnecessary scenes I think the mainstream population doesn't care if there are plot holes. + Show Spoiler +I wonder what would happen if Kirk didn't tell Scotty to shoot Khan. An anti-hero Khan allied with Kirk was a great missed opportunity. + Show Spoiler +The same thing, which always happens if you try to befriend Khan and are inferior. He'll screw you over. Khan wants his super-humans to rule the world. Every threat would be eliminated. Of course, he doesn't announce it in advance. That's why many people have problems accepting him as a bad person.
On May 21 2013 14:06 DeepElemBlues wrote:Just watched Wrath of Khan last night and every time I think about it I get more disappointed in the way they handled Khan in Into Darkness and the movie as a whole pretty much. + Show Spoiler + If they're going to crib lines and scenes from Space Seed and Wrath of Khan, they should have just had the movie be a remake of Space Seed for the first half and Wrath of Khan for the second half. Instead of this terrible "Admiral Marcus wants preemptive war on the Klingons so he wakes up Khan who is supposed to be some kind of major badass but never does anything except kill some Klingons, hijack a basically uncrewed ship, and then crashes it because he doesn't suspect the most obvious trick ever." I mean come on. New Kirk beats New Khan with a fucking Trojan horse trick. Really, JJ Abrams?
Old Khan would have never just stood around and let those torpedoes be beamed over without checking them at all. He'd have been down in the cargo bay opening them up the instant they beamed over. Because old Khan cared about his crew and showed it. New Khan says he cares but does nothing to show that's true.
Old Spock talking up Old Khan was the only time I felt a true threat during the movie and that was just nostalgia for Old Khan. CGI Ricardo Montalban should have showed up (come on it's Star Trek tech the tech and bam he's there) and killed Lame New Cumbertach Khan, then we would have had a movie on our hands.
+ Show Spoiler +Old Spock appearing was horrible and reminded me of the 2009 film's stupid plot. I expected them to call for reinforcements from New Vulcan, because you can most certainly trust them. It should only take seconds for the Vulcan ships. Old Khan would stick his nose into a possibly armed torpedo, you say? Nope. But it's questionable if New Khan made a mistake. After all, he assumed, the crew wouldn't have the expertise or the time to remove the people from their pods and put them into new ones. And he probably assumed, that Spock wouldn't kill those people by detonating them. But Spock could have beamed them over and said: 'They are armed now and waiting for our signal. Do as I say or I'll blow them up.'
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On May 20 2013 17:22 FinestHour wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 14:15 Grimmyman123 wrote:On May 20 2013 12:42 FinestHour wrote: hmm its not that one it had like those 3 chirds by the low brass that was really menacing and really defined, but sounded so good Which scene or part of movie? i remember most clearly it was during the credits, right at the end of the movie when the names were flashing along with the planets and the space background before the credits turned black
Sorry, but it looks like the OST does not include the actual music which was used in the final credits. I think the bit you are thinking of was their remash of the original tv series theme with the "Motion Picture" them and the new rehash OST theme.
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On May 22 2013 04:49 Grimmyman123 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 17:22 FinestHour wrote:On May 20 2013 14:15 Grimmyman123 wrote:On May 20 2013 12:42 FinestHour wrote: hmm its not that one it had like those 3 chirds by the low brass that was really menacing and really defined, but sounded so good Which scene or part of movie? i remember most clearly it was during the credits, right at the end of the movie when the names were flashing along with the planets and the space background before the credits turned black Sorry, but it looks like the OST does not include the actual music which was used in the final credits. I think the bit you are thinking of was their remash of the original tv series theme with the "Motion Picture" them and the new rehash OST theme.
The music over the credits is a direct copy from the OST of the first film (the menacing music is part of Nero's theme).
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On May 22 2013 01:46 Perscienter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 08:12 -Archangel- wrote:On May 21 2013 07:42 Yoav wrote:On May 21 2013 06:10 Fulla wrote:Khan in the old movie, was much older and had been trapped on adeolate planet for what 20 years? Needless to say he had gone insane by that point It's actually a fun experience to watch Space Seed (TOS Episode introducing Khan) and then Wrath of Khan and then this for a look at the evolution of one story in Star Trek. I liked the movie in spite of the plot holes. Guys, it's bloody Star Trek. How many torpedoes/shuttles did Voyager have? Why are the BoPs so ridiculously huge in "The Defector"? Why exactly don't we use transporters to replicate people of great ability? Does Voyager have a ventral torpedo tube? Why are 1,000 man ships and 40 man ships run by main crews of the same number of people with almost exactly the same ranks? Why don't missed shots that impact inert objects blow them to smithereens, given that a standard photon torpedo has a yield far in excess of 8x our most powerful hydrogen bomb? It was fun, I tried not to sweat the projectile phasers, and enjoyed it. What is BoP? A Bird of Prey. There were many issues with its size on screen, as described on this excellent site: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/bop-size.htmThe models were never true to scale in every Trek series, not even when they used CGI. Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 22:57 oBlade wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I have a problem with this movie's use of Khan. I don't have a categorical problem with using Khan. But in this movie, it seems blasphemous. Khan is the quintessential Star Trek villain. He's the only one who got a main character killed. Ricardo Montalban's Khan is like a historical standard. So to take the same character and put him in this random situation sullies the original Khan a bit. I mean, the real villain is section 31 I think? even though section 31 would never build starships because that's not how they operate, and then at the end Khan has like 5 minutes where he tries to take control but dies. So we're split between Khan's little amount of time as the actual villain, and the fact that the other guy, Marcus, got defeated basically by Scotty ex machina? There's basically no tension in the film. Even the cinematography. All the musical cues and reveals happen immediately. Cumberbatch's Khan is good but it's not written as a lead villain.
...
The death of Kirk, for instance. That is a fucking dramatic thing to put on screen. Just like the death of Spock was. But it's not used dramatically in this movie. It just... recycles the Wrath of Khan death scene (using exactly the same lines - and making Spock yell KHAN is just so cheesy) and then Kirk is resurrected not 10 minutes later? In Star Trek 3 it took an entire movie and the destruction of the Enterprise to bring Spock back. The messages of Star Trek II and III are about sacrifice. That's why things like Spock's death happened. Killing Kirk is a really novel idea but not if you just bring him back like nothing happened.
I think Into Darkness has some interesting ideas around Kirk as far as how he can be captain and his conflict with rules/authority. But to tell that story it didn't need to cheaply rehash the death scene from The Wrath of Khan. Kirk's actual death in Generations (considered an average film I think) is a huge moment. Or at least it's supposed to be. But a 10 minute resurrection isn't very profound.
Also I can't stand the damn movie theater humor that keeps slipping into these films. The shit jokes that only get a laugh when a group of people go to a movie screening at night. Not even jokes. Just cues for shitty laughter. Like Spock's "I am not sure that qualifies." Movie cliches in general. I want them to stop sneaking into Star Trek.
A couple things I thought were fresh despite the general trend of the film were: 1) Khan's success in the debris field and rescue of Kirk. It expands upon the Khan traits we already know. We know he'll use you on his way to seizing power, but in this case even saves Kirk. 2) The classified nature of the torpedoes. The section 31 in the canon I know wouldn't be involved with weapons like that - because section 31 never shows themselves - but I like the idea of military/starfleet tension and state secrets in the future. Reminds me of MECOs on Enterprise, Voyager's omega particle, and probably other stuff. 3) When Khan killed Marcus I actually thought he was killing Scotty for shooting him in the back. I was seriously impressed. The death of Marcus, though, I didn't care about. Not because Marcus was an asshole but because I don't even know who he was. He had no introduction or motives. Plot-disposable. 4) Bones' attitude as Kirk's doctor. Reminds me again of previous doctor/captain relationships but without being a caricature of the old Bones/Kirk. For that matter, I like Kirk's conflicts. 5) Spock fighting Khan. Vulcan strength makes it a lot closer of a match. In fact, I like when Spock is the captain. He also seems more relatable due to the connection with Spock Prime. I would rather Zachary Quinto were the lead, and that Kirk hadn't been resurrected. Either make Kirk's death mean something or don't kill him because it doesn't mean anything if you bring him back in 10 minutes. + Show Spoiler +Many other main characters had been killed. TNG and DS9: + Show Spoiler +Tasha Yar permanently. Riker many times in alternate realities. Jadzia Dax. The point with Scotty is, that Section 31 simply didn't have enough manpower. Why should we always assume giant conspirational organisations? The reality is not that bleak either. ST II and III are not about sacrifrice. WoK is about Meyer as a stranger to the franchise killing off the most important or second most important character. III is about lazy writers, who realized that the franchise couldn't continue without Spock and trying to apply childish rules about trade-offs. WoK's ending (which would have been a great way to end a fifth or sixth film without any resurrection afterwards) is the reason why III and IV are such a huge mess. In that regard, I prefer a 10 minute resurrection to whole film, which makes up an endlessly stupid story for something which is not even remotely possible including children being created from cold corpses including insane growth on a planet which formed out of a nebula and some idiotic soul carrying. So I see a slight improvement there over ST II + III. Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 21:42 Fwizzz wrote:I like the movie overall. Even though there's a lot of plot holes. Unnecessary scenes I think the mainstream population doesn't care if there are plot holes. + Show Spoiler +I wonder what would happen if Kirk didn't tell Scotty to shoot Khan. An anti-hero Khan allied with Kirk was a great missed opportunity. + Show Spoiler +The same thing, which always happens if you try to befriend Khan and are inferior. He'll screw you over. Khan wants his super-humans to rule the world. Every threat would be eliminated. Of course, he doesn't announce it in advance. That's why many people have problems accepting him as a bad person. Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 14:06 DeepElemBlues wrote:Just watched Wrath of Khan last night and every time I think about it I get more disappointed in the way they handled Khan in Into Darkness and the movie as a whole pretty much. + Show Spoiler + If they're going to crib lines and scenes from Space Seed and Wrath of Khan, they should have just had the movie be a remake of Space Seed for the first half and Wrath of Khan for the second half. Instead of this terrible "Admiral Marcus wants preemptive war on the Klingons so he wakes up Khan who is supposed to be some kind of major badass but never does anything except kill some Klingons, hijack a basically uncrewed ship, and then crashes it because he doesn't suspect the most obvious trick ever." I mean come on. New Kirk beats New Khan with a fucking Trojan horse trick. Really, JJ Abrams?
Old Khan would have never just stood around and let those torpedoes be beamed over without checking them at all. He'd have been down in the cargo bay opening them up the instant they beamed over. Because old Khan cared about his crew and showed it. New Khan says he cares but does nothing to show that's true.
Old Spock talking up Old Khan was the only time I felt a true threat during the movie and that was just nostalgia for Old Khan. CGI Ricardo Montalban should have showed up (come on it's Star Trek tech the tech and bam he's there) and killed Lame New Cumbertach Khan, then we would have had a movie on our hands.
+ Show Spoiler +Old Spock appearing was horrible and reminded me of the 2009 film's stupid plot. I expected them to call for reinforcements from New Vulcan, because you can most certainly trust them. It should only take seconds for the Vulcan ships. Old Khan would stick his nose into a possibly armed torpedo, you say? Nope. But it's questionable if New Khan made a mistake. After all, he assumed, the crew wouldn't have the expertise or the time to remove the people from their pods and put them into new ones. And he probably assumed, that Spock wouldn't kill those people by detonating them. But Spock could have beamed them over and said: 'They are armed now and waiting for our signal. Do as I say or I'll blow them up.'
Old Khan wouldn't have fallen for a Trojan horse trick. He would have checked those torpedoes somehow. Old Khan might not have been experienced in Star Trek space-combat tactics but he knew every trick in the deception book, I figured New Khan would as well but nope. New Khan never seemed truly capable or even competent to me except at shooting Klingons and beating up people.
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On May 22 2013 01:46 Perscienter wrote:+ Show Spoiler +But it's questionable if New Khan made a mistake. After all, he assumed, the crew wouldn't have the expertise or the time to remove the people from their pods and put them into new ones.
+ Show Spoiler +You'd think that made sense, except for the fact he TOLD them to open the torpedoes not 30 minutes before that scene when he was first taken prisoner. The movie is plothole galore, but since I'm not a real ST fan, I just go for the action scenes.
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New Khan was more controlled by his emotions, it seemed to me, and he made a tactical error in trusted Spock - he believed he had him over a barrel and didn't believe he would do anything to jeopardise his crew in that manner. Old Khan was more calculating, and perhaps he had right to be - after all, he had decades to plan his revenge, and was surrounded by his family. New Khan was desperate to be reunited with his, and had finally just achieved his aims (or so he thought). He was set to go around the universe on his merry, genocidal way, and then it was snatched from him and he lashed out like a frustrated child.
And that's what Khan is, in a way. Bred to be superior in every single possible way, he was raised by stunted creatures forever jealous of his powers and abilities, and finally cast out by his inferiors for the sin of being better. Then he is awoken by a petty warmongering man uses his family against him to force Khan to start a war he has no interest in. Next he finds out he has been tricked into nearly killing his family, and he has another reason to hate those different to him. Finally, he manages to manipulate his way to control of a new ship, to getting his family back, to getting his revenge on those who used him, and to killing the Admiral. I can understand he might have lost a little control there, and didn't do things as thoroughly as he normally would have.
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On May 21 2013 07:42 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 06:10 Fulla wrote:Khan in the old movie, was much older and had been trapped on adeolate planet for what 20 years? Needless to say he had gone insane by that point It's actually a fun experience to watch Space Seed (TOS Episode introducing Khan) and then Wrath of Khan and then this for a look at the evolution of one story in Star Trek. I liked the movie in spite of the plot holes. Guys, it's bloody Star Trek. How many torpedoes/shuttles did Voyager have? Why are the BoPs so ridiculously huge in "The Defector"? Why exactly don't we use transporters to replicate people of great ability? Does Voyager have a ventral torpedo tube? Why are 1,000 man ships and 40 man ships run by main crews of the same number of people with almost exactly the same ranks? Why don't missed shots that impact inert objects blow them to smithereens, given that a standard photon torpedo has a yield far in excess of 8x our most powerful hydrogen bomb? It was fun, I tried not to sweat the projectile phasers, and enjoyed it.
You should post this on every forum on the internet. The hyperbole and hand wringing I've seen is impressive and your post is a cool breeze of perspective. Thank you.
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hi guys . ok this is real i went today to watch the movie with my gf and a friend and there was a blackout right when the captain guy ( i cant remember his name , first time i ever watch star trek ) enters the radiation room ( warp core i think it was ) when the ship was going down . i think thats 10 minutes away from finish . can some1 be gentle and tell me how it ended ? in a private message or spoiler ofc .. thanks a lot !
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You should probably put that in a spoiler, xsnac. But as for the ending,
+ Show Spoiler +-Kirk goes into the warp core to realign it.
-He succeeds, and the Enterprise starts flying again with very little time left to spare. The radiation kills him, though.
-Khan still has the Vengeance though, albeit heavily damaged from the Torpedoes. He sets it on a collision course to Starfleet HQ, but because the computers are damaged it misses its target and "only" destroys a large part of the city.
-Khan survives the crash, and Spock beams down to try and kill him.
-Meanwhile, it is discovered aboard the Enterprise that Khan's blood can bring things back to life, so the crew try to contact Spock to tell him to take Khan alive to extract more blood, but the communications are not working. Uhura beams down to Spock to aid him in the fight, but tells him not to kill Khan.
-After a fight scene, Khan is captured and put in a cryo-pod. The blood is transfused into Kirk, who miraculously comes back to life.
-Kirk resumes his post as Captain of the Enterprise, Scotty comes back as the Enginner (If I remember correctly) and Admiral Marcus' daughter stays onboard the Enterprise as well. The movie ends with the Enterprise leaving for the classic "five year mission" to explore new worlds, boldly go, etc.
I personally loved the whole movie except for the ending. I can see why they + Show Spoiler + but it made the whole death part seem somewhat meaningless, especially since it happened so soon after he died. I wasn't paying attention during the Tribble scene (All I understood was that they were doing a medical experiment on the Tribbles, which I believed to merely be a throwback to the original series) so I wasn't totally expecting it at least.
Other things I liked:
-Spock's dialogue with Uhura about death, emotions, etc. -Benedict Cumberbatch was great in his role -Awesome visuals -+ Show Spoiler + death scene, I thought it was very well done. -Little bits of humor throughout in an otherwise serious plot.
-Other things I disliked:
-+ Show Spoiler +As I said, Kirk's death having basically no impact due to his almost immediate resurrection -Admiral Marcus' character wasn't as fleshed out as it could have been
I didn't see the original Wrath of Khan, so I can't compare the two. Khan seemed great in this one, though, from my perspective.
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Great 3D movie for this year 2013.
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On May 23 2013 12:34 Coppermantis wrote:You should probably put that in a spoiler, xsnac. But as for the ending, + Show Spoiler +-Kirk goes into the warp core to realign it.
-He succeeds, and the Enterprise starts flying again with very little time left to spare. The radiation kills him, though.
-Khan still has the Vengeance though, albeit heavily damaged from the Torpedoes. He sets it on a collision course to Starfleet HQ, but because the computers are damaged it misses its target and "only" destroys a large part of the city.
-Khan survives the crash, and Spock beams down to try and kill him.
-Meanwhile, it is discovered aboard the Enterprise that Khan's blood can bring things back to life, so the crew try to contact Spock to tell him to take Khan alive to extract more blood, but the communications are not working. Uhura beams down to Spock to aid him in the fight, but tells him not to kill Khan.
-After a fight scene, Khan is captured and put in a cryo-pod. The blood is transfused into Kirk, who miraculously comes back to life.
-Kirk resumes his post as Captain of the Enterprise, Scotty comes back as the Enginner (If I remember correctly) and Admiral Marcus' daughter stays onboard the Enterprise as well. The movie ends with the Enterprise leaving for the classic "five year mission" to explore new worlds, boldly go, etc. I personally loved the whole movie except for the ending. I can see why they + Show Spoiler + but it made the whole death part seem somewhat meaningless, especially since it happened so soon after he died. I wasn't paying attention during the Tribble scene (All I understood was that they were doing a medical experiment on the Tribbles, which I believed to merely be a throwback to the original series) so I wasn't totally expecting it at least. Other things I liked: -Spock's dialogue with Uhura about death, emotions, etc. -Benedict Cumberbatch was great in his role -Awesome visuals - + Show Spoiler + death scene, I thought it was very well done. -Little bits of humor throughout in an otherwise serious plot. -Other things I disliked: - + Show Spoiler +As I said, Kirk's death having basically no impact due to his almost immediate resurrection -Admiral Marcus' character wasn't as fleshed out as it could have been I didn't see the original Wrath of Khan, so I can't compare the two. Khan seemed great in this one, though, from my perspective.
thanks a lot !
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On May 23 2013 12:40 trunkymode wrote: Great 3D movie for this year 2013.
this!
i never enjoyed 3d movies before, but i thought it was quite good for this movie
especially the opening scene (planet with the volcano)
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These movies are so fun and well done that I'm pretty willing to look over plot holes and inaccuracies that a typical trekkie would cry over, but the fact that places like Kronos and Vulcan are literally 5 minutes away kind of bugs me, lol.
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On May 23 2013 07:53 xsnac wrote: hi guys . ok this is real i went today to watch the movie with my gf and a friend and there was a blackout right when the captain guy ( i cant remember his name , first time i ever watch star trek ) enters the radiation room ( warp core i think it was ) when the ship was going down . i think thats 10 minutes away from finish . can some1 be gentle and tell me how it ended ? in a private message or spoiler ofc .. thanks a lot !
What happens is...
Kirk dies. It is really sad, and he gives a very emotional speech, and then...
Less than 5 minutes later he comes back to life !!!
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Read the last few pages, and people are peeved about everything but the thing that bugs me the most. Is no one incensed about the politics behind the plot? How did Marcus get the resources to pull-off production and research on all this technology? Stating it so openly when he initially sends Kirk on his mission, it's obviously approved by Starfleet or any other joint governing system. So all this shit goes down, and at the end of the movie the government isn't completely fucking pissed with Kirk or the crew? They act like nothing happens; the same rank and respect is given to Kirk, and he retains his ship.
Bitch, you just foiled STARFLEET'S plans to aggravate the war on their terms. You just destroyed the pinnacle of war technology to-date, a massive fucking ship that probably cost a majority of any military budget Earth had. Hell, MORE, since Starfleet and Earth are generally un-militaristic.
Like, seriously, is this not bugging anyone else? The government doesn't breathe down their neck at all? They aren't all demoted and relegated to the far corners of the galaxy like Scotty originally was? No, fuck it, YOU can be our ambassador to brave new worlds.
What the actual fuck? The biggest plot hole, and my friends didn't seem to care, people on here don't seem to care... did I miss a line in the movie that explains it all or something?
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On May 24 2013 19:02 Cedstick wrote: Read the last few pages, and people are peeved about everything but the thing that bugs me the most. Is no one incensed about the politics behind the plot? How did Marcus get the resources to pull-off production and research on all this technology? Stating it so openly when he initially sends Kirk on his mission, it's obviously approved by Starfleet or any other joint governing system. So all this shit goes down, and at the end of the movie the government isn't completely fucking pissed with Kirk or the crew? They act like nothing happens; the same rank and respect is given to Kirk, and he retains his ship.
Bitch, you just foiled STARFLEET'S plans to aggravate the war on their terms. You just destroyed the pinnacle of war technology to-date, a massive fucking ship that probably cost a majority of any military budget Earth had. Hell, MORE, since Starfleet and Earth are generally un-militaristic.
Like, seriously, is this not bugging anyone else? The government doesn't breathe down their neck at all? They aren't all demoted and relegated to the far corners of the galaxy like Scotty originally was? No, fuck it, YOU can be our ambassador to brave new worlds.
What the actual fuck? The biggest plot hole, and my friends didn't seem to care, people on here don't seem to care... did I miss a line in the movie that explains it all or something?
Not a plot hole. Admiral Marcus is portrayed as the highest ranking starfleet officer the viewer is exposed to. The crew of his ship are few in number and likely private mercenaries. Section 31 in the film breaks with canon but is clearly seen as the secret, militaristic, research arm of starfleet. Moreover it's made obvious Marcus is acting alone and kirk recorded and broadcasted the whole confession speech of the villain. It's obvious Marcus is acting alone or with only a few people, and that the Vengeance may have been a starfleet war vessel but not necessarily part and parcel of Marcus' plot. It's not unlikely that starfleet in this universe would approve a warship design. Other starfleet officers probably didn't know Marcus plan however.
As for resources it's a common movie trope to have a secret research base, secret funding, and a top level official to boot.
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On May 24 2013 19:02 Cedstick wrote: Read the last few pages, and people are peeved about everything but the thing that bugs me the most. Is no one incensed about the politics behind the plot? How did Marcus get the resources to pull-off production and research on all this technology? Stating it so openly when he initially sends Kirk on his mission, it's obviously approved by Starfleet or any other joint governing system. So all this shit goes down, and at the end of the movie the government isn't completely fucking pissed with Kirk or the crew? They act like nothing happens; the same rank and respect is given to Kirk, and he retains his ship.
Bitch, you just foiled STARFLEET'S plans to aggravate the war on their terms. You just destroyed the pinnacle of war technology to-date, a massive fucking ship that probably cost a majority of any military budget Earth had. Hell, MORE, since Starfleet and Earth are generally un-militaristic.
Like, seriously, is this not bugging anyone else? The government doesn't breathe down their neck at all? They aren't all demoted and relegated to the far corners of the galaxy like Scotty originally was? No, fuck it, YOU can be our ambassador to brave new worlds.
What the actual fuck? The biggest plot hole, and my friends didn't seem to care, people on here don't seem to care... did I miss a line in the movie that explains it all or something?
It was a more personal idea from Marcus to wage war etcetera and the mission to Kronos on which they were sent wasn't an official one. How did Marcus pull the funding for developing such machinery, I do not know.
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Yeah, I heard the line about that security guard, "not being Starfleet," but that doesn't change the fact that you don't divert that many Starfleet resources very discretely. It was portrayed as his own personal take on things, but at the same time, he wasn't particularly secretive. At any time Khan or Kirk could utter something about coordinates near Jupiter that would have other admirals and administrators reeling, assuming they're already oblivious. I wonder if they'll shed more light on this in the future. How many movies are we expecting, though? How long-term is this cast? I'm down for more movies, but shit, I don't think they'll go back to this arc in the next movie to expose anyone else who might have been in-league with Marcus to keep it covered-up.
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Even if all the top starfleet people did know I still don't see why they would punish kirk and co for messing with it. It's obviously totally against starfleet code and just cutting all ties with it would probably be the best option.
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On May 24 2013 19:36 Cedstick wrote: Yeah, I heard the line about that security guard, "not being Starfleet," but that doesn't change the fact that you don't divert that many Starfleet resources very discretely. It was portrayed as his own personal take on things, but at the same time, he wasn't particularly secretive. At any time Khan or Kirk could utter something about coordinates near Jupiter that would have other admirals and administrators reeling, assuming they're already oblivious. I wonder if they'll shed more light on this in the future. How many movies are we expecting, though? How long-term is this cast? I'm down for more movies, but shit, I don't think they'll go back to this arc in the next movie to expose anyone else who might have been in-league with Marcus to keep it covered-up.
According to canon, the resources of the Federation and Starfleet are essentially limitless. the films haven't touched on replicator technology yet, but it's a staple of star trek lore and the basis of federation economics. but that's almost a different story altogether
And it's not that Marcus was being secretive, more like it's highly likely that Section 31 owned and operated the hidden research basis near Jupiter and that a black ops agency like that would not have any trouble getting resources to build 1 ship, big and badass as it may be.
It's more likely that Starfleet, or at least Section 31, knew about the base and research and kept it hushed up...and that Marcus and his plan did not face any opposition (after all, his only plan was to build warships and defend against the Klingons). Doubtful he ever told people about his desire to actually provoke war or anything like that imo
Starfleet built warships in the past (well technically future...), though they called them "escorts".
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