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On May 08 2013 03:07 Duka08 wrote: Seems like there's been a bit of discussion for getting your feet wet in WoT in the past few pages. I played the game a decent amount wayy back in beta 2-3ish years ago, and I'm kind of interested in picking it back up out of boredom. Has the lower level matchmaking gotten any better? That's really what turned me off to it was all the games where there were 5-6 tiers of tanks in the same game (I guess lack of players?). If I'm playing alone in the lower tiers, should I expect it to be fairly evenly matched? How is the game in tiers 1-4ish right now?
Well, played a few T1-2 games and it's definitely better than before so far. Lots of fun.
Now having a personal crisis over which country/tech I want to do lol
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On May 08 2013 06:58 bobbob wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2013 03:15 m4inbrain wrote: Main problem for me is the issue of Tier10 meds vs Tier10 heavies in matchmaking, rare to win with three top tier meds against three top tier heavies. It's better than being a T6 heavy in a T10 game.
Depends, i actually don't think so. It's frustrating, sure. But nobody expects a Tiger to do well against a Maus, E100 and IS-7. The three meds are expected to counter these, which most likely won't happen (if the heavy-players aren't stupid).
The T6 tank is not the reason to lose such a game, the three meds against three heavies on the other hand are.
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Okay guys, i am gonna need a lot of help. First, the matchmaking is frustrating and stupid. Second, i am terrible. Third, my tanks are terrible.
First things first though, ranting.
[RANT] The T4 russian tanks got to be the most frustrating things in the game. The SU 85B at 75% experience and without the better guns can't hit a barn from the range it needs to be safe. The A-20 is a joke, it's worse then the BT-7 in almost any regard, but has to play vs Panther IIs and the likes. The T28 is the weirdest tank i have played so far. It is the first medium tnak of the russians, but it has virtually no armor with bad sloping, a huge silhouette and not that many hitpoints. It straight up looses any frontal fight against non-russian T3 and T4 tanks. You get spotted very soon and artillery will just fuck you up if the stupidly op Pz. 1 C won't just one shot you. All i wanted was a tank i wouldn't need to snipe with. Sigh. I am trying to implement the finer points of dueling, showing them the right angle and stuff. But it doesn't matter, as the tank is nothing but a sniper IF you get experience in it. [/RANT]
Ok, more constructive now. When do i use HE ammunition? As far as i understand it, your shells won't do anything if they don't get through the plating. And HE have good damage (alpha? right terminology?) but bad penetration, right? So, if i am fighting as a T28 vs a T28 and i am using the 57 mm ZiS-4. I can hit him at his side with nominal angle. My HE shell can penetrate 29mm of armor, it can vary by 25%, which means i get a guaranteed penetration, right? So, i will deal moar damage with the HE compared to the AP shell, because it does 95 compared to 85 damage and both will be a guaranteed penetration?
I think i recall someone saying, if you can't penetrate the armor at all, you might as well start shooting with HE at them. Is there any value to that?
Will i have any fun playing the T34? It looks like it has the same problems as the T28 to some extent, and while it's best gun is good on a Tier 4 tank, it gets worse against the Tier 7s you might face. I like the faster and more agile tanks, i just want to be able to at least kill stuff of my tier.
[RANT]
Why is the matchmaking not taking crew-experience into account? Why do i have to potentially play vs 15 people with 2 traits per crewmember with 14 people that have just started the tank? Stupid!
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On May 08 2013 20:39 Broetchenholer wrote:Okay guys, i am gonna need a lot of help. First, the matchmaking is frustrating and stupid. Second, i am terrible. Third, my tanks are terrible. First things first though, ranting. [RANT] The T4 russian tanks got to be the most frustrating things in the game. The SU 85B at 75% experience and without the better guns can't hit a barn from the range it needs to be safe. The A-20 is a joke, it's worse then the BT-7 in almost any regard, but has to play vs Panther IIs and the likes. The T28 is the weirdest tank i have played so far. It is the first medium tnak of the russians, but it has virtually no armor with bad sloping, a huge silhouette and not that many hitpoints. It straight up looses any frontal fight against non-russian T3 and T4 tanks. You get spotted very soon and artillery will just fuck you up if the stupidly op Pz. 1 C won't just one shot you. All i wanted was a tank i wouldn't need to snipe with. Sigh. I am trying to implement the finer points of dueling, showing them the right angle and stuff. But it doesn't matter, as the tank is nothing but a sniper IF you get experience in it. [/RANT] Ok, more constructive now. When do i use HE ammunition? As far as i understand it, your shells won't do anything if they don't get through the plating. And HE have good damage (alpha? right terminology?) but bad penetration, right? So, if i am fighting as a T28 vs a T28 and i am using the 57 mm ZiS-4. I can hit him at his side with nominal angle. My HE shell can penetrate 29mm of armor, it can vary by 25%, which means i get a guaranteed penetration, right? So, i will deal moar damage with the HE compared to the AP shell, because it does 95 compared to 85 damage and both will be a guaranteed penetration? I think i recall someone saying, if you can't penetrate the armor at all, you might as well start shooting with HE at them. Is there any value to that? Will i have any fun playing the T34? It looks like it has the same problems as the T28 to some extent, and while it's best gun is good on a Tier 4 tank, it gets worse against the Tier 7s you might face. I like the faster and more agile tanks, i just want to be able to at least kill stuff of my tier. [RANT] Why is the matchmaking not taking crew-experience into account? Why do i have to potentially play vs 15 people with 2 traits per crewmember with 14 people that have just started the tank? Stupid!
Are you online right now, if so, what nick? Easier to explain in german.
Edit:
I think i recall someone saying, if you can't penetrate the armor at all, you might as well start shooting with HE at them. Is there any value to that?
Yes. You will do near to none damage after the HE-nerf, but a nonpenetrating AP does no damage at all. A nonpenetrating HE does basedamage minus armor/angle and a couple of other things (never really figured it out and still is discussed in the forums as it seems). And yeah, if you can guarantee a penetration with a HE shell, its almost always better to use it since you will get way more critical damage done. Then again, only arty-HE-shells penetrate "reliable" - top of the tank = almost zero armor.
Edit2: added you ingame, will explain stuff if i meet you online at some point.
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T-34 is one the most enjoyable tanks in the game, but requires 100% crew and some expirience in the secondary skills to really shine(just like most tanks, though). At lower tiers you often move on to the next tank so fast that you rarely get your crew to 100% to really get the most out of the tank.
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On May 08 2013 22:55 Zavior wrote: T-34 is one the most enjoyable tanks in the game, but requires 100% crew and some expirience in the secondary skills to really shine(just like most tanks, though). At lower tiers you often move on to the next tank so fast that you rarely get your crew to 100% to really get the most out of the tank.
Yep.. It's kinda f'd up. 50-80% it feels like the tank gets 10% better, at 90% it feels like 20%, and at 100% it feels like you're driving a completely different tank.
Also, T34-85 was an awesome tank when it had (thank god bias) the 100mm D10T. Just brilliant. No idea now though, went up to T44 in beta, after wipe i got bored with the T-34 and stopped grinding it. To me, one of the most enjoyable tanks was the PzIV prenerf (and fully upgraded). And of course VK3601 + Tiger II (best tanks ingame, imo). At the moment, i'm grinding T29, which started to be fun after getting the 105 T5E1 as well.
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Thx for the offer of help, i will be online from 8 pm this evening to friday morning, i guess :D Grinding the tanks is not a lot of fun, if you get matched with people that have 4 digit number of games with a tank that is a tier up on the opposing team. Guess i am used to die at this time, i just feel i mostly have zero impact on the game whatsoever. Sad.
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Just joined the KV club. Fuck yeah ;D
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On May 08 2013 23:10 Broetchenholer wrote: Thx for the offer of help, i will be online from 8 pm this evening to friday morning, i guess :D Grinding the tanks is not a lot of fun, if you get matched with people that have 4 digit number of games with a tank that is a tier up on the opposing team. Guess i am used to die at this time, i just feel i mostly have zero impact on the game whatsoever. Sad.
In the russian med-line, the fun starts with the T-54. That's the first really shining tank. The rest i find mediocre at best, or even underperforming (don't know if they fixed it, but i have no idea how often i got instablowed up with my T-44 due to a retarded ammorack).
I also have 4 digits (more than halfway to 5 digits! ), so that'll balance out. Oh and yeah, get used to dieing. That'll happen alot. Even if you play well, just wait until arty gets the bigger shells (starting at Hummel, M41, AMX13F3, SU8). You can play like a god, one stupid hit will eat you alive. With my T92 (biggest barrel ingame afaik, at least it was when i stopped playing regularly), i oneshotted T10 tanks on a daily basis. Needs a bit of luck, but happens (even after the HE nerf). Just to give you an idea what's waiting for you ;P
Just joined the KV club. Fuck yeah ;D
The old one was fun. Could chose between a stupidly OP 107mm and a 152mm derpgun capable of oneshotting everything in its tier.
Good times.. ^^
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On May 08 2013 22:50 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2013 20:39 Broetchenholer wrote:Okay guys, i am gonna need a lot of help. First, the matchmaking is frustrating and stupid. Second, i am terrible. Third, my tanks are terrible. First things first though, ranting. [RANT] The T4 russian tanks got to be the most frustrating things in the game. The SU 85B at 75% experience and without the better guns can't hit a barn from the range it needs to be safe. The A-20 is a joke, it's worse then the BT-7 in almost any regard, but has to play vs Panther IIs and the likes. The T28 is the weirdest tank i have played so far. It is the first medium tnak of the russians, but it has virtually no armor with bad sloping, a huge silhouette and not that many hitpoints. It straight up looses any frontal fight against non-russian T3 and T4 tanks. You get spotted very soon and artillery will just fuck you up if the stupidly op Pz. 1 C won't just one shot you. All i wanted was a tank i wouldn't need to snipe with. Sigh. I am trying to implement the finer points of dueling, showing them the right angle and stuff. But it doesn't matter, as the tank is nothing but a sniper IF you get experience in it. [/RANT] Ok, more constructive now. When do i use HE ammunition? As far as i understand it, your shells won't do anything if they don't get through the plating. And HE have good damage (alpha? right terminology?) but bad penetration, right? So, if i am fighting as a T28 vs a T28 and i am using the 57 mm ZiS-4. I can hit him at his side with nominal angle. My HE shell can penetrate 29mm of armor, it can vary by 25%, which means i get a guaranteed penetration, right? So, i will deal moar damage with the HE compared to the AP shell, because it does 95 compared to 85 damage and both will be a guaranteed penetration? I think i recall someone saying, if you can't penetrate the armor at all, you might as well start shooting with HE at them. Is there any value to that? Will i have any fun playing the T34? It looks like it has the same problems as the T28 to some extent, and while it's best gun is good on a Tier 4 tank, it gets worse against the Tier 7s you might face. I like the faster and more agile tanks, i just want to be able to at least kill stuff of my tier. [RANT] Why is the matchmaking not taking crew-experience into account? Why do i have to potentially play vs 15 people with 2 traits per crewmember with 14 people that have just started the tank? Stupid! Are you online right now, if so, what nick? Easier to explain in german. Edit: Show nested quote +I think i recall someone saying, if you can't penetrate the armor at all, you might as well start shooting with HE at them. Is there any value to that? Yes. You will do near to none damage after the HE-nerf, but a nonpenetrating AP does no damage at all. A nonpenetrating HE does basedamage minus armor/angle and a couple of other things (never really figured it out and still is discussed in the forums as it seems). And yeah, if you can guarantee a penetration with a HE shell, its almost always better to use it since you will get way more critical damage done. Then again, only arty-HE-shells penetrate "reliable" - top of the tank = almost zero armor. Edit2: added you ingame, will explain stuff if i meet you online at some point.
To clarify your comments on HE vs AP round for newer players. A general rule of thumb is you shouldn't be shooting HE unless you have what's known as a derp gun, essentially a howitzer mounted on a tank ( Think a grossly large caliber gun for the tank, like a 105mm on a tier 4 or 5 for example) These are the sorts of guns that make HE very useful due to the extreme damage potential of the shot. Otherwise in almost all cases you are better off just shooting the AP as the damage potential of the HE will be negated by the armor it hits. For example, lets say your HE does 75 damage per shot. And the tank you're shooting has 50mm of armor where you're hitting. Your damage will only be 25 at the end of the day. So if you have a reasonable chance to penetrate with AP, you should always do that because if it pens it does full damage (within the confines of the RNG damage rolls). Your comment almost made it seem like HE should be your most used ammo, which I'm sure you didn't really mean so I wanted to clarify.
Learn to aim for weakspots. Start simple at first, things like the sides and rear of a tank for example. Then move on to recognizing the angles of the armor your aiming at, its always best if your shot impacts the armor at a 90 degree perpendicular angle to it. Finally a higher level tactic is aiming for things like view ports, machine gun ports, hatches, etc. These usually have much less armor than the surrounding areas.
I know it gets frustrating watching all your shots bounce off. This is where you need to work on aiming and maneuvering for better shots. And at the end of the day, some tanks do just have sucky guns and you have to deal with it. This is why I initially started playing the German tank destroyer line. Great guns, the Hetzer is an absolute terror with the 105mm derp gun, and the Stug III (tier 5) has an amazing gun that will still reliable pen tier 7's with capable aiming. Once you get a better feel for the game you can start to appreciate the subtleties of tanks that initially seemed like crap, but are actually really good.
WoT is a really great game once you learn to adapt to the annoyance of terrible team mates and occasionally ridiculous match making.
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In regards to HE: A use for HE is also to hit enemies that are capping if you can't penetrate them otherwise.
Quote from the World of Tanks wiki:
" It is also highly recommended to use HE when attempting to reset a cap. You do not need to be as accurate with HE as a hit anywhere on an enemy tank will most likely cause even a slight amount of damage, and any damage, even if it's only a single hitpoint's worth, is enough to reset a tank's acquired cap points to 0."
Source: http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/Ammo
If you're new to the game I highly recommend browsing through the WoT wiki, as a lot of mechanics are explained.
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Sorry, not true. You shoot HE when you know you can't pen with AP. And that happens for alot of reasons, for example T29/T32 Turret etc.
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On May 08 2013 23:52 m4inbrain wrote: Sorry, not true. You shoot HE when you know you can't pen with AP. And that happens for alot of reasons, for example T29/T32 Turret etc.
Again, that's great and all for a few select times. And I would say sitting away plinking at a T29 or 32's turret/ mantle with HE is a great way to get dead real quick, the 200 some milimeters of armor on the front of that turret, not counting angles, will reduce the hell out of your HE damage. If your facing that tank better find a way to hit it's hull. Telling new players to primarily shoot HE is a great way to make them into terrible players as they progress. "Oh no, I can't pen ever, might as well always shoot HE and accept the tiny amount of constant damage instead of a slightly more variable amount of serious damage"
Edit: The only really valuable times to shoot HE are for cap resetting, as even a miniscule amount of damage will reset the clock, and for open topped tanks. And even then, if you have AP loaded at the moment you run into them its not worth taking the time to load out of it. For your second shot, sure...
For the love of god please tell me you're not actually advocating that HE should be your primary ammo in many tanks (not counting derps) Plenty of times if you're not penning with AP than the damage you do with HE to that same spot is going to be worthlessly small. You're better off getting a better shot instead of exposing your position
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On May 09 2013 00:02 Cornstyle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2013 23:52 m4inbrain wrote: Sorry, not true. You shoot HE when you know you can't pen with AP. And that happens for alot of reasons, for example T29/T32 Turret etc. Again, that's great and all for a few select times. And I would say sitting away plinking at a T29 or 32's turret/ mantle with HE is a great way to get dead real quick, the 200 some milimeters of armor on the front of that turret, not counting angles, will reduce the hell out of your HE damage. If your facing that tank better find away to hit it's hull. Telling new players to primarily shoot HE is a great way to make them into terrible players as they progress. "Oh no, I can't pen ever, might as well always shoot HE" Instead of learning to not always accept frontal shots and learn to aim for weak points.
Wow, you're one passive aggressive fella. Since i just won a match and therefore have a bright mood..
You don't plink with HE on T29s turret, you would do so with AP. Left ear hit with HE will kill the gunner, which is so much more valuable than your idea of "going around to hit the hull". If you could hit it's hull, you would not need to shoot the turret in the first place - but it's common to have hull down US tanks for a reason. Next, we're talking russian barrels. Try sniping at weakspots at ~300m with russian guns and 50-75% crew, that's what i would teach a new player. That doesn't even work with 100% crew. With my german tanks (10,5 and 12,8) and a 200-300% crew it's easy to hit the cupola/"buckle on top of the gunmantle"/left and right of the gunmantle with AP (still no need to "drive around to get a hullhit"). But that's not what we're talking here.
Completely disregarding the fact that you deal internal damage with HEs even if you don't do that much damage on the HP kinda shows me that you have no idea how HEs actually work.
You know, there's a frickin reason why they nerfed them, and that reason is NOT arty.
For the love of god please tell me you're not actually advocating that HE should be your primary ammo in many tanks (not counting derps)
Don't go that way, i never said something like that. I said IF YOU CAN'T PENETRATE SOMETHING WITH AP (maybe it's easier to read with bigger letters). Just stop.
Edit: yeah, just checked.. Half the games i have, biggest tank a german JpantherII (no need to shoot HE with german high pen/acc guns, you're right there), no russian tanks to speak of at all - sorry. Not worth it.
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Gonna start playing again today. Used to back in December for about a month, then stopped. Hopefully, there were some nice changes...like new maps.
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On May 09 2013 00:29 Lucumo wrote: Gonna start playing again today. Used to back in December for about a month, then stopped. Hopefully, there were some nice changes...like new maps.
They reworked alot of old maps, don't know which ones were reworked since December though.
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Well, Pearl River is definitely new
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The report system in this game is fucking retarded LOL. Some guy was annoyed at me for taking a kill, so rammed into my tank over and over till he killed myself, and now my account is banned for a day because he reported me for teamkilling.
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Too bad they still have those fucked up spawns at times. Like attacking up a hill, there is no chance to win that...unless you got some artillery.
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On May 10 2013 00:51 Lucumo wrote: Too bad they still have those fucked up spawns at times. Like attacking up a hill, there is no chance to win that...unless you got some artillery.
T92 reporting in. I love shooting up a hill, thanks to the angle it's easier to hit stuff (even though it's harder to onehit stuff). But yeah, a couple of maps are pretty bad, Malinovka being a good example. The south has a longer way up the hill, and heavies are sitting ducks on the "ramp", going ~10-15km/h. Hard to miss them there.
Edit: not really longer, but steeper - meds/lights can reach the windmill before the south, and spot down the hill.
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