I think I also really like the variety of characters and classes, and the fact that the game designers like to take away as much as they like to add. The game is slim, I guess.
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup - Page 81
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
I think I also really like the variety of characters and classes, and the fact that the game designers like to take away as much as they like to add. The game is slim, I guess. | ||
Logo
United States7542 Posts
Probably the only time I was really mad was when I ran into a D1 jackal pack as my first set of enemies once. And that was just once across like thousands of games. Really? Stuff like that happens to me all the time. DCSS is sort of fair, probably more so than other roguelikes, and it has a focus on some more strategic stuff. There's still a ton of unfair and RNG stuff though. I don't know if you're just lucky or what, but I see stuff all the time like Sigmund confusing you on D2 the first turn you see him or having damage rolls hit unusually high on low armor characters, bad potion/scroll drops, or just in general ridiculous spawns (I've see cases where 3 floors in a row have almost all of the staircases guarded by unusually tough monsters). Torment, summon spam, and some of the late game stuff also feels a bit hamfisted in how it adds challenge too, but that's a different concern I suppose. Even just the hit die and damage die can be really random in some situations. Take something like fireball which can hit anywhere from 3 damage to 111 at max spell power. It of course depends a lot on the character you play. A MiFi is going to face way less RNG effects than a caster of a race with a vulnerability to certain brands. | ||
Dienosore
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
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Yacobs
United States846 Posts
It's clearly the best all-around roguelike, though. | ||
crate
United States2474 Posts
d:1 jackal pack is usually not fatal if you play well (since almost every character can handle a single jackal) but most players are very bad at handling enemies Consumable generation is basically never a direct cause of death ... the things you actually need to win in crawl are effectively guaranteed. Getting more consumables makes up for worse play or lets you take "risks" that you otherwise could not. If you think you are dying "all the time" to bad luck you are doing something wrong. re: dblade vs falchion: use the dblade fsim (ctrl-f in wizmode) can help if you want to test weapons and the fact that the game designers like to take away as much as they like to add lol | ||
Logo
United States7542 Posts
On March 05 2014 13:05 crate wrote: It is exceptionally rare for you to die in a fashion that was not in some way your fault in dcss; in almost all these cases you can even point to a tactical mistake (as opposed to just bad character-building) d:1 jackal pack is usually not fatal if you play well (since almost every character can handle a single jackal) but most players are very bad at handling enemies Consumable generation is basically never a direct cause of death ... the things you actually need to win in crawl are effectively guaranteed. Getting more consumables makes up for worse play or lets you take "risks" that you otherwise could not. If you think you are dying "all the time" to bad luck you are doing something wrong. re: dblade vs falchion: use the dblade fsim (ctrl-f in wizmode) can help if you want to test weapons lol Uh it's still a huge fluctuation in difficulty which is all anyone is blaming the RNG for and there's still plenty of stuff like getting confused/banished the turn that something comes into LoS (early on) which isn't a guaranteed death, but it immediately puts you into a much more difficult situation than you'd otherwise be. Then sure you can survive bad RNG rolls for damage and stuff normally, but you can certainly have cases in DCSS where you'll fight something 99 times no problem and that 100th time you'll suddenly be in a really bad situation because your RNGed on the bad side of things. A good player will handle it, but it's still pretty big fluctuations in difficulty due to the RNG. | ||
VoidedWarranty
42 Posts
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crate
United States2474 Posts
slaying[3/3]: <crate> roughly +3 to-dam is +2 base damage for onehanders and +2 to-dam is +1 base damage for 2handers Part of how I give advice is I am not always concerned with being correct in specifics (in this specific case the answer doesn't matter; they do similar damage, as I found out after testing) but instead I try to give advice that is very simple (never use a falchion over a dblade) and will almost always be correct. Giving strategic advice like this is good because it lets players worry more about the actually important parts of the game. Almost all players spend too much effort worrying about strategic things and not enough time thinking about tactical things. | ||
VoidedWarranty
42 Posts
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crate
United States2474 Posts
since you have decided that the answer you want to hear is "wield the falchion" then you can do that; I already said it is fine and does not matter possibly relevant: resists[1/1]: <elliptic> you don't need more than one + in anything except rF <elliptic> and that's only for zot:5 <elliptic> resists after the first + are generally overvalued | ||
Dienosore
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Gather 'round children and I will tell you the tale of a brave orc who started from humble origins, became a prophet and nearly took his spot among the Gods... In the hills of DCSS Trunkland, Dienosore was a young buck trying to make ends meet. He was trained as a fighter, showing particular skill with sword and shield. He achieved much glory in his homeland for valor in the Elf-Orc war of 2014 and accomplished the title of Skirmisher, but it was not enough. No matter how many elf necks he twisted, he was still unsatisfied. There were talks among the old hands in camp about an ancient dungeon that was rumored to be an opening into other dimensions. They spoke about how someone smart and strong enough could discover immense wealth, recover powerful magical artifacts and even communicate with the Gods. A particular object, the Orb of Zot, was rumored to contain all of life's pleasures and secrets. Those who brought it into the sun would be showered with a cacophony of blood and ascend into the heavens as a divine being. But first to even reach the Realm of Zot, an orc must first possess three mystical runes which were scattered in immense depths of an abandoned dungeon. Before leaving for this fateful quest, Dienosore carved his name into his cave wall with his falchion and donned his scale mail and trusty shield. Glory would be his! The quest began quietly and without commotion. Dienosore's talent with swords, darts and positioning gave him advantage against the weak bats and kobolds. His shield and armor left him unharmed from the prying of hobgoblins and wild dogs. It did not take long for Dienosore to find his first prized treasure, an enchanted +6, +1 great sword of the Mosquito {venom, +Inv rPois}. Using this sword as an extension of his undeniable will, Dienosore made quick work of the first few levels of the dungeon. After brutally murdering a few of his own kind, Dienosore was convinced to abandon his heathen ways and accept Beogh the Almighty as his savior. He was gifted with a divine dream, where all orcs are created equal. Under his guidance and leadership, Dienosore vowed to lead the unorganized mobs to glory. With a new purpose in life, Dienosore continued his descent. He outsmarted brutally dumb ogres and quick centaurs with expertise and caution, often retreating if the bill was too high. Once enough blood had been spilled in Beogh's name, Dienosore began to attract the attention of other orcs in the dungeon. His reputation for clever tactics and unforgiving violence was quickly spreading. It was not long before he had his first disciple, who was excited to die for his new Prophet. Dienosore's ranks soon ballooned. Every orc who saw the majesty of the Prophet either accepted Beogh as their savior or was sent to meet theirs. As the army grew, a few orcs displayed exceptional prowess in battle. They were promoted and equipped with the best available gear. The group traveled for many hours and eventually stumbled upon the home of beasts. This was the same Lair spoken of by the elders of Trunkland as a den of poisonous and absolutely deadly creatures. Rumors of dire elephants that could easy crush an orc or mythical hydras whose power only grew with their wounds haunted Dienosore's mind. Nevertheless, he knew he would have to face much worse if he were to recover the orb of Zot and bring proper glory to Beogh. Dienosore plunged ahead without fear. While in the Lair, one particularly bright wizard excelled past his peers. After slaying a dangerous komodo dragon with a deft strike from a war axe, the wizard's capabilities and knowledge were recognized. The wizard, Borgun, was the first to receive a name from Beogh. He was promoted to Sorcerer and given the knowledge of how to raise the dead, which proved invaluable to Dienosaur and the group as they descended lower into the Lair. With careful planning and micromanaging, Dienosore carved his way through the Lair. While on the fourth floor, he discovered a volcano. Dienosore wisely left his followers behind and dove into the lava. His recently found fire dragon armor was exactly what was needed to absorb the heat and he was able to easily move through the flames and plunder a variety of unique weapons and fire resistant armor for his troops. With their new equipment, the group quickly reached the bottom of the beast's den. When there was nothing was left to kill, the battle-hardened crew turned around and marched back to the dungeon. Many of the warriors received names and titles for their bravery in the Lair, however many horrors were still to be faced before salvation. It did not take long for Beogh to smile on his faithful followers and grace them with good fortune. A few steps after leaving the Lair, Dienosore discovered Kyefyi's Magic Scroll Shop. Here he gambled 800 coins on a particular piece of paper that was guaranteed to open a line of dialogue with the gods. To Dienosore's surprise, the scroll actually worked. In a fit of hysteria, he sank to his knees and let loose a glass-shattering scream. A gift lay at his feet which would serve him well for the rest of his life; a fiery sword brought forth from the pits of Hell. As his pack filled, Dienosore was forced to make camp somewhere and unload. He decided to leave his heavy treasure and extra supplies in one location near the entrance into the furthest depths of the Dungeon. This place would become his center of operations. Other than plant life, there was not much still alive in the Dungeon up to this point, so he felt safe that no thieves would steal it before he was finished with his quest. Whenever the load was too heavy or if a new batch of recruits needed gear, Dienosore would return here to regroup. Dienosore's orcs were getting restless despite their recent successes. They grew tired of slaughtering defenseless scum in the Dungeon and decided to get their feet wet in the unpredictable shoals on the outskirts of the Lair. Because orcs naturally cannot swim, it was going to be a tense struggle to move through the shifting sands. The Shoals were notorious for the tendency to open up and swallow legions of unexpecting orcs in a single watery gulp. Dienosore took tally of his disciples before trudging through the sand. He knew it was impossible for everyone to survive this trial. Along the way, Dienosore had heard whispers of another powerful Prophet who was also seeking the orb of Zot. When a new orc would join his crew, they would often speak of another called St. Roka who held similar status to Dienosore. He donned a deep green armor and attracted many followers who trembled under his familiarity with sharp weapons. He was also reputed by Dienosore's wizards and priests to be able to crush an orc's skull with a single word. In the Shoals, St. Roka and his band were caught building castles in the sand. When Dienosore first appeared, a brilliant white light lit up the beaches and immediately half of St. Roka's army defected and accepted Dienosore as the true Prophet of Beogh. The rest either converted or drowned in a sea of blood and water. In a few deft maneuvers, Dienosore decapitated St. Roka and chopped his body into many pieces so he and his followers could dine on Roka's flesh for sustenance. He had now established himself as the one and only true Prophet. The crew trecked deeper and deeper below the seas, eventually reaching the might Kraken who was sitting on the Barnacled Rune. Orc blood was spilled and some drowned, but eventually the rune was secured. Only four brave souls survived the many-tentacled beast, but now the group had the first key to the Realm of Zot. Two more would be needed before the gateway would open, so Dienosore and his small band of scragglers decided to plunge into the Depth and face their natural fears of snakes. First, however, Dienosore would need more troops to replace those lost battling the Kraken at sea. When he stumbled upon an underground mine shaft that was inhabited entirely by orcs and their pets, he knew it was the perfect opportunity to convert new followers. Dienosore quickly moved from room to room, liberating the minds of unruly orcs by showing them the true path. At the very bottom of the Mine, a shrine to Beogh was gaurded by a contingent of orcish warriors, ogres, sorcerers and high priests. Many of the older and more influential members of the mine shaft would not accept change in their ancient ways. Those who did not convert were mercilessly slaughtered. Dienosore prayed for their souls at Beogh's alter. The caves were filled with snakes of all types, the kinds that kill with a single bite and others that kill by wrapping and s q u e e z i n g. A bastard race of men with snake bodies, the slithering Naga, hid in every possible nook and cranny, only to lunge out at the worst moment and spit acidic venom at Dienosore and his troops. Veterans in the group took advantage of the distraction the newer orcs provided and the group was able to persevere at great cost. Sacrificing blood for speed, Dienosore made short work of the winding caves of the Snake Pit and soon found the serpentine rune. The loss of life was significant in the final fight for the rune due to bad positioning and a general lack of poison resistance. Only five brave souls were strong enough to survive the venemous nagan onslaught. One rune remained. The next logical path was to enter into the highly gaurded fortress of the Vaults. Once considered the safest place to store riches, it quickly fell to looting and vandals as the Dungeon fell out of common use. A gang of humans calling themselves the Vault Gaurdians took possession of the space and what remained of the once-vast horde of treasure. They are told to have lived there for generations protecting their most sacred possession, the silver rune. Dienosore was once again up to the task and made short work of their petty police force. He easily separated their heads and dined on their flesh. The Silver Rune was the last of three necessary to unlock the Realm of Zot. Though there were many runes that were rumored to exist, Dienosore respected the enormity of those undertakings as many were in different dimensions unreachable by worldly means or in tormented hells whose entire composition and architecture changes with every step. Even still, by inserting three Runes into the lock, Dienosore and his few remaining officers had already achieved something that had not been done for thousands of years: a portal to the Realm of Zot was opened! Dienosore and his disciples were committed to finding the Orb and bringing it to the surface despite the nightmare which still was before them. Their gazes were disturbingly peaceful as they stepped blindly into the portal. Three steps into the Realm of Zot, Dienosore realized he was out of depth and to stay would mean sure death for his generals. He needed more troops, so once again he returned to the unexplored regions of the orcish mines for one final pilgrimage to Beogh's shrine. While there, he met a highly skilled orc named Urug who insisted on battle rather than talk of religion. Dienosore grinned because Urug reminded of himself when he was younger and was glad to oblige the challenge. To train his new troops, Dienosore decided to finally pay a visit to the despicable elves whose frail little bodies had to hide behind magic rather than physical skill. In the Elvish Halls, the self-absorbed, egotistical backstabbers had settled in and fortified their holding within the Dungeon. As expected, the puny meatsacks proved to be cowards in battle, summoning beasts from other worlds to fight their battles for them. Others projected conjured fireballs and blasts of negative energy from a distance. Many did not survive, including Urug, but the few who remained were stronger for it. With no where else to go, it was time to enter Zot. The group did not attempt to clear Zot, electing to avoid battle and rush directly to the Orb rather than stand against the unspeakable horrors that lay behind every corner. Despite their haste, they still were forced to overcome demons summoned from the depths of hell by ancient liches, invisible clowns with knives, sentient balls of fire and waves of dragonoids who live among the terrors. When finally the room containing the orb was reached, Dienosore paused a brief moment to steel himself for the final push. He ordered his troops to march slow and deliberately, waiting to pick the enemies off one by one rather than charge ahead into uncertainty. Everything was going well when suddenly Dienosore accidentally blundered into a pressure plate trap in the floor. An alarm blared and a mark appeared on his head. A target had been painted on his back and every denizen of Zot came to see what was making all the noise. Dienosore's army was slowly being overwhelmed and they were forced to retreat. With a frenzy never before seen by any surface creature, the monsters pursued and overtook the small band of orcs. If Dienosore did not escape, death was assured. His last option was to leave his disciples behind and read a magical teleportation scroll which would hurl only him to a random point somewhere else on the same floor. Beogh once again smiled on Dienosore as he was whisked away. When Dienosore reappeared, he could not believe his eyes... DIENOSORE WAS TELEPORTED WITHIN REACH OF THE ORB OF ZOT With each painful step Dienosore took towards the Orb, he could hear the dying screams of his enemies as the last remaining members of his army fought valiantly to their last breath. Without hesitation, Dienosore grabbed the Orb and thrust it into his pocket. A thousand unearthly howls exploded in a cacophony that rocked the heavens. With the removal of the Orb from its resting place in Zot, Dienosore unknowingly ripped apart the metaphysical fabric holding together the Pandemonium dimensions. Moments later, the first demon lord thrusts his way through the hole and is pulled towards Dienosore and his all-powerful Orb. Dienosore was bleeding profusely and knew the monsters responsible for slaying his army were waiting for him just outside of the orb room. He could not simply walk out or stand still to heal, so he was forced again to gamble with a teleportation scroll. A few moments later, Dienosore blinked and reappeared outside the view of the mob of demons and Pandemonium Lord. The race to the surface had begun. Dienosore sprinted for the nearest set of stairs and frantically began to climb, trying to stay a step ahead of his pursuers. No matter how fast he ran, unspeakable horrors and Pandemonium Lords would burst into existence next to Dienosore. When they could not deliver physical blows, they shouted obscenities at Beogh's Prophet meant to perplex and infuse terror into his mind. With the Realm of Zot now underneath him, Dienosore continued sprinting upwards. Many times his path was blocked by enemies or was too long to navigate, so he was forced to blast the walls of earth surrounding him with energy from an enchanted digging wand. New tunnels were formed in the hard earth, and Dienosore quickly bounded through them. After ascending multiple stories, Dienosore once again found his path blocked and his retreat cut off by monsters. With no where to run and his health in jeopardy, the Prophet read his last teleportation scroll to escape one final time... To his chagrin, Dienosore was moved directly in front of Pandemonium Lord Strekeg who wasted no time slinging insult after insult as he approached the hero. Dienosore cut through more stone in a mad scramble for the nearest set of stairs in an effort to stay in front of the demons, but he was headed off by Pandemonium Lord, Tausunlow, and his devilish servants. Dienosore had nowhere to run, not enough health to fight and no magical items to help him escape. He laughed after realizing his fate, and plowed forward to meet Beogh. And thus I finish my tale of Dienosore the Orcish Blade. Let his life be a precautionary story to all of you young adventurers who seek to prevail where The Prophet could not. While descending is hard, do no underestimate the ascension. | ||
VoidedWarranty
42 Posts
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PassiveAce
United States18069 Posts
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VoidedWarranty
42 Posts
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crate
United States2474 Posts
This is the first win of the 0.13 DCSS tournament. | ||
Dienosore
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
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PassiveAce
United States18069 Posts
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Dienosore
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
Hey crate, thanks for the vid! Also, do you know if anyone has ever done extended with HoPr? I feel like I can do a 3 rune run easy enough, but idk anything about pan, hell new abyss. | ||
VoidedWarranty
42 Posts
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VoidedWarranty
42 Posts
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