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On November 29 2012 04:48 IreScath wrote: I just read through like 6, maybe 7 pages 38-45 or so... I love all the ND hate, hehe...
Can't wait to see you all eat your words.
"ND won't get to the 50 vs bama" "Florida more competitive game than ND vs Bama"
I love it... Gunna make this NCG even more fun to watch.
Go Irish, GO TE'O! ND reminds me of 2007 Ohio State. Not exactly a hot offense, but has a defense, lead by a great linebacker (James Laurinitis/ Manti Te'o), that will keep them in games. Nevertheless, I wouldn't bet against SEC, especially if it's Alabama.
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On November 29 2012 13:20 don_kyuhote wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 05:39 Jerubaal wrote:On November 26 2012 13:02 don_kyuhote wrote: ND = 12-0 (beat #8, #12, #21) Bama = 11-1 (beat #9, #21, lost to #10) Georgia = 11-1 (beat #5, lost to #11, ) Florida = 11-1 (beat #9, #10, #11, #13, lost to #3) Oregon = 11-1 (beat #16, lost to #8) Kansas State 10-1 (beat #12, #24, lost to unranked)
It's funny how people like to pick on Florida, but their resume sure looks better than most. Until you realize that Bama, LSU and Texas A&M played nobody but each other and SC, Georgia and Florida played nobody but each other. Those 6 teams may have played "nobody", but they won, like they are supposed to. Same cannot be said about Kansas State, Stanford, Oregon State, and UCLA. Oregon's only loss may have came from non-"nobody", but their schedule isn't any harder than everybody else, in fact it's one of the easiest. Besides, Michigan, FSU, Clemson may not be top teams, but they're not nobodies.
I actually looked at Oregon's schedule after reading your post, and you right it wasn't very hard. Then I decided to check out Georgia's for fun and now I am genuinely confused as to how Oregon is ranked behind Georgia.
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On November 29 2012 15:59 kukarachaa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 13:20 don_kyuhote wrote:On November 29 2012 05:39 Jerubaal wrote:On November 26 2012 13:02 don_kyuhote wrote: ND = 12-0 (beat #8, #12, #21) Bama = 11-1 (beat #9, #21, lost to #10) Georgia = 11-1 (beat #5, lost to #11, ) Florida = 11-1 (beat #9, #10, #11, #13, lost to #3) Oregon = 11-1 (beat #16, lost to #8) Kansas State 10-1 (beat #12, #24, lost to unranked)
It's funny how people like to pick on Florida, but their resume sure looks better than most. Until you realize that Bama, LSU and Texas A&M played nobody but each other and SC, Georgia and Florida played nobody but each other. Those 6 teams may have played "nobody", but they won, like they are supposed to. Same cannot be said about Kansas State, Stanford, Oregon State, and UCLA. Oregon's only loss may have came from non-"nobody", but their schedule isn't any harder than everybody else, in fact it's one of the easiest. Besides, Michigan, FSU, Clemson may not be top teams, but they're not nobodies. I actually looked at Oregon's schedule after reading your post, and you right it wasn't very hard. Then I decided to check out Georgia's for fun and now I am genuinely confused as to how Oregon is ranked behind Georgia. I'm pretty sure it's because Georgia lost earlier than Oregon. Flip the date of loss between Georgia and Oregon, Oregon would be ranked ahead of Georgia. Other than that, probably because win against Florida means more than win against Oregon State.
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On November 29 2012 14:03 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 06:23 Damiani wrote:On November 29 2012 05:39 Jerubaal wrote:On November 26 2012 13:02 don_kyuhote wrote: ND = 12-0 (beat #8, #12, #21) Bama = 11-1 (beat #9, #21, lost to #10) Georgia = 11-1 (beat #5, lost to #11, ) Florida = 11-1 (beat #9, #10, #11, #13, lost to #3) Oregon = 11-1 (beat #16, lost to #8) Kansas State 10-1 (beat #12, #24, lost to unranked)
It's funny how people like to pick on Florida, but their resume sure looks better than most. Until you realize that Bama, LSU and Texas A&M played nobody but each other and SC, Georgia and Florida played nobody but each other. This exactly. All those ranking is from their inflated conference. I respect ND's schedule more than any SEC conference by far. LSU's schedule last year was very respectable. Really? ND that barely beat Michigan despite Michigan's 6 TOs, versus Alabama that bent us over in the shower. And you respect ND's schedule more? Because of Oklahoma, who hasn't shown up to a bowl game for the last decade? Or MSU, who turned out to be atrocious.
Look, people love saying the SEC is overrated but really, the Big 10 and Big 12 are both hugely overrated year after year. If Ohio hadn't been stupid and taken their bowl ban last year, there'd be stupid amounts of hooplah about ND vs tOSU and I don't think either team is actually top 5 in the nation. I'm a Michigan fan and the SEC is the best conference in the country. People cry because they're not exciting, but the reason Big 12 games are exciting is because none of those teams have a clue what press coverage means (which, btw, is why their record breaking receivers are terrible in the NFL.) Alabama's schedule is absolutely scarier than Notre Dame's was this year. Maybe if the Big 10 or USC lived up to expectations it wouldn't be, but then you wouldn't have a 12-0 team. Maybe you should read my post again. I said ND's schedule is a lot tougher than SEC team ( i really meant BAMA and Georgia). No where in my post did i mention ND's wins or how they won. There is a HUGE difference. Navy,Purdue,Michigan St,Michigan,Miami,Stanford,Byu,Oklahoma,Pittsburgh,Boston College,Wake Forest,USC. I mean seriously do you know your college football? Have you only been a fan of college football for 5-10 years? You sure speak like one. I would rather take Bama's or Georgia's gauntlet schedule over ND's in a heartbeat. Georgia's schedule: Buffalo,Missouri,Florida International,Vanderbilt,Tennessee,South Carolina,Kentucky,Florida,Ole Miss,Auburn,Georgia Southern,Georgia Tech. BAMA's schedule: Michigan,Western Kentucky,Arkansas,Florida Int,Ole Miss,Missouri,Tennessee,Miss State,LSU,Texas AM,Western Carolina,Auburn. Let's just say in 2013 if you had to choose one of these three schedule to play which one would you choose? Oh let me guess you'll prob pick ND's schedule right? If i was a head coach i wouldn't even think twice about choosing to play ND's schedule. And i'm not even being bias or anti-SEC. And you say the big 12 is overrated year after year. But yet a mid tier Big 12 team beating the #1 team in the country in their own backyard. Really? And to be quite frank the SEC can have their moment in the sun. It's funny how the SEC only won 4 NC from 1970 to 2005 but yet you guys speak so highly of the SEC as if they've been the best of all time.
Edit: If you don't agree with the schedule being tougher then you got to at least agree that going on the road to Michigan St,OU and USC and coming out with a W in the same year is definately not an easy thing to do.
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On November 29 2012 15:02 don_kyuhote wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 04:48 IreScath wrote: I just read through like 6, maybe 7 pages 38-45 or so... I love all the ND hate, hehe...
Can't wait to see you all eat your words.
"ND won't get to the 50 vs bama" "Florida more competitive game than ND vs Bama"
I love it... Gunna make this NCG even more fun to watch.
Go Irish, GO TE'O! ND reminds me of 2007 Ohio State. Not exactly a hot offense, but has a defense, lead by a great linebacker (James Laurinitis/ Manti Te'o), that will keep them in games. Nevertheless, I wouldn't bet against SEC, especially if it's Alabama. Notre Dame team is almost like a Florida team. They both win ugly games. A couple blowout games. Below avg to avg offense. Awesome defense.
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On November 29 2012 18:53 Damiani wrote: Maybe you should read my post again. I said ND's schedule is a lot tougher than SEC team ( i really meant BAMA and Georgia). No where in my post did i mention ND's wins or how they won. There is a HUGE difference. Navy,Purdue,Michigan St,Michigan,Miami,Stanford,Byu,Oklahoma,Pittsburgh,Boston College,Wake Forest,USC. I mean seriously do you know your college football? Have you only been a fan of college football for 5-10 years? You sure speak like one. I would rather take Bama's or Georgia's gauntlet schedule over ND's in a heartbeat. Georgia's schedule: Buffalo,Missouri,Florida International,Vanderbilt,Tennessee,South Carolina,Kentucky,Florida,Ole Miss,Auburn,Georgia Southern,Georgia Tech. BAMA's schedule: Michigan,Western Kentucky,Arkansas,Florida Int,Ole Miss,Missouri,Tennessee,Miss State,LSU,Texas AM,Western Carolina,Auburn. Let's just say in 2013 if you had to choose one of these three schedule to play which one would you choose? Oh let me guess you'll prob pick ND's schedule right? If i was a head coach i wouldn't even think twice about choosing to play ND's schedule. And i'm not even being bias or anti-SEC. And you say the big 12 is overrated year after year. But yet a mid tier Big 12 team beating the #1 team in the country in their own backyard. Really? And to be quite frank the SEC can have their moment in the sun. It's funny how the SEC only won 4 NC from 1970 to 2005 but yet you guys speak so highly of the SEC as if they've been the best of all time.
Edit: If you don't agree with the schedule being tougher then you got to at least agree that going on the road to Michigan St,OU and USC and coming out with a W in the same year is definately not an easy thing to do. I don't agree that Mich State and Miami are better than Miss State, Vanderbilt, and Ole Miss.
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United States22883 Posts
You're really citing MSU, Miami and USC with a freshman QB? KSU lost because they had a soft schedule up to that point and they're not very talented. Turns out WVU, TT and OSU aren't particularly good either, and their OOC schedule was atrocious.
Yes, in the year 2012 I absolutely would've taken ND's schedule over Alabama's. It doesn't matter what USC did in the 2000s or Michigan did in the 1990s because they aren't those teams. Ray Lewis isn't playing for Miami. If Michigan, Michigan State and USC had lived up to their expectations, Notre Dame wouldn't be a 12-0 team.
Instead, all three programs had off years and they took advantage of it, but not by much. So no, beating a handful of big name 7-5/8-4 teams doesn't impress me. Stanford does. Oklahoma kind of sort of does until they lose to TCU this weekend.
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On November 30 2012 00:08 Jibba wrote: You're really citing MSU, Miami and USC with a freshman QB? KSU lost because they had a soft schedule up to that point and they're not very talented. Turns out WVU, TT and OSU aren't particularly good either, and their OOC schedule was atrocious.
Yes, in the year 2012 I absolutely would've taken ND's schedule over Alabama's. It doesn't matter what USC did in the 2000s or Michigan did in the 1990s because they aren't those teams. Ray Lewis isn't playing for Miami. If Michigan, Michigan State and USC had lived up to their expectations, Notre Dame wouldn't be a 12-0 team.
Instead, all three programs had off years and they took advantage of it, but not by much. So no, beating a handful of big name 7-5/8-4 teams doesn't impress me. Stanford does. Oklahoma kind of sort of does until they lose to TCU this weekend. Agree with this 100%. MSU sucked ass. USC wasn't much better, and they played their freshman qb. I don't know why that is being championed as a statement game at all. Stanford and Oklahoma are totally different stories.
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On November 29 2012 18:53 Damiani wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 14:03 Jibba wrote:On November 29 2012 06:23 Damiani wrote:On November 29 2012 05:39 Jerubaal wrote:On November 26 2012 13:02 don_kyuhote wrote: ND = 12-0 (beat #8, #12, #21) Bama = 11-1 (beat #9, #21, lost to #10) Georgia = 11-1 (beat #5, lost to #11, ) Florida = 11-1 (beat #9, #10, #11, #13, lost to #3) Oregon = 11-1 (beat #16, lost to #8) Kansas State 10-1 (beat #12, #24, lost to unranked)
It's funny how people like to pick on Florida, but their resume sure looks better than most. Until you realize that Bama, LSU and Texas A&M played nobody but each other and SC, Georgia and Florida played nobody but each other. This exactly. All those ranking is from their inflated conference. I respect ND's schedule more than any SEC conference by far. LSU's schedule last year was very respectable. Really? ND that barely beat Michigan despite Michigan's 6 TOs, versus Alabama that bent us over in the shower. And you respect ND's schedule more? Because of Oklahoma, who hasn't shown up to a bowl game for the last decade? Or MSU, who turned out to be atrocious.
Look, people love saying the SEC is overrated but really, the Big 10 and Big 12 are both hugely overrated year after year. If Ohio hadn't been stupid and taken their bowl ban last year, there'd be stupid amounts of hooplah about ND vs tOSU and I don't think either team is actually top 5 in the nation. I'm a Michigan fan and the SEC is the best conference in the country. People cry because they're not exciting, but the reason Big 12 games are exciting is because none of those teams have a clue what press coverage means (which, btw, is why their record breaking receivers are terrible in the NFL.) Alabama's schedule is absolutely scarier than Notre Dame's was this year. Maybe if the Big 10 or USC lived up to expectations it wouldn't be, but then you wouldn't have a 12-0 team. Maybe you should read my post again. I said ND's schedule is a lot tougher than SEC team ( i really meant BAMA and Georgia). No where in my post did i mention ND's wins or how they won. There is a HUGE difference. Navy,Purdue, Michigan St,Michigan,Miami,Stanford,Byu, Oklahoma,Pittsburgh,Boston College,Wake Forest, USC. I mean seriously do you know your college football? Have you only been a fan of college football for 5-10 years? You sure speak like one. I would rather take Bama's or Georgia's gauntlet schedule over ND's in a heartbeat. Georgia's schedule: Buffalo,Missouri,Florida International,Vanderbilt,Tennessee, South Carolina,Kentucky, Florida,Ole Miss,Auburn,Georgia Southern,Georgia Tech. BAMA's schedule: Michigan,Western Kentucky,Arkansas,Florida Int,Ole Miss,Missouri,Tennessee,Miss State, LSU, Texas AM,Western Carolina,Auburn. Let's just say in 2013 if you had to choose one of these three schedule to play which one would you choose? Oh let me guess you'll prob pick ND's schedule right? If i was a head coach i wouldn't even think twice about choosing to play ND's schedule. And i'm not even being bias or anti-SEC. And you say the big 12 is overrated year after year. But yet a mid tier Big 12 team beating the #1 team in the country in their own backyard. Really? And to be quite frank the SEC can have their moment in the sun. It's funny how the SEC only won 4 NC from 1970 to 2005 but yet you guys speak so highly of the SEC as if they've been the best of all time. Edit: If you don't agree with the schedule being tougher then you got to at least agree that going on the road to Michigan St,OU and USC and coming out with a W in the same year is definately not an easy thing to do.
Texas A&M is in the SEC. They also aren't mid-tier(maybe the last few years), but I guarantee you if they were in the Big 12 this year the only games of theirs that they would have to actually come to play would have been vs K State or Oklahoma. They left because Texas and Big 12 commissioner are greedy ass holes, same reason Colorado, Nebraska and Missouri left.
We speak highly of the SEC because regardless of the rankings of the teams in the SEC, they are all never an easy opponent (I am a Nebraska fan so I'm bias for big 10, and they suck w/o Ostate). Any week, any SEC team has the possibility of knocking off any in-conference rival because of the play-style of the SEC, defense oriented with whoever has a great offense is bound to be good that year. However, going back to your bolded and un-bolded list, do you really think that any of the SEC's schedules are in any way better than ND's? I don't. I'll tell you why, other than what has already been said.
ND: Navy / 7-4 vs all non-top 25 opponents Purdue / (Won by 3 points) 6-6 vs only ND as rated team - and to Ohio state #10 Mich St. / 6-6 barely bowl eligible in one of the weakest major conferences this year. #18 Michigan / (1 score game) 8-4 - I can give credit here as their losses came from Ala/ND/Neb/OhioSt Miami FL / 7-5 #17 Stanford / 10-2 Credit due, gg Overtime BYU / (3 pt game) 7-5 #8 Oklahoma / 9-2 Credit due, good team Pitt / 5-6 May not go to a bowl game if they lose to South Fl. 3 pt overtime game Boston College / 2-10 Wake Forest / 8-4 USC / (9 pt game without their starting quarterback) 7-5
Alabama: #8 Michigan / 8-4 - I'll quote myself from above "I can give credit here as their losses came from Ala/ND/Neb/OhioSt" WKentucky / 7-5 Arkansas / 4-8 FL Atl / 3-8 Ole Miss / 6-6 - Losses to Tex/Ala/TAMU/Georgia/Vand/LSU Mizzou / 5-7 - Losses to Georgia/SCarolina/Vand/Ala/Florida/TAMU Tennessee / 5-7 Losses to Florida/Georgia/MissST/Ala/SCarolina/Mizzou/Vand #11 Miss St / 8-4 Losses to Ala/TAMU/LSU/Ole Miss #5 LSU / 10-2 Losses to Florida/Alabama - 3 pt game #15 Texas AM (TAMU) / 10-2 Losses to Florida/LSU << LOST - 5 pt game West Carolina / 1-10 Every SEC Team schedules a cupcake game before the final SEC game Auburn / 3-9 They suck Now they will play #3 Georgia for the SEC championship
( I could go to Georgia's schedule and find something very similar to the above^ )
Now let me explain. I'm not saying ND doesn't deserve to be in the NCG, or that their schedule wasn't hard, I'm simply making two points:
1. Alabama's closest two games were vs #5 LSU, (3 pt game), and #15 TAMU, (5 pt game) where
Notre Dame had vs unranked Purdue (3pt game), #18 Michigan (7 pt game), #17 Stanford (7 pt OT game), unranked BYU (3 pt game), unranked Pitt (3 pt OT game) and unranked USC (9 pt game without their starting quarterback).
I think Alabama's going to stomp hard all over ND.
2. SEC Schedules are always going to be harder because of the quality of teams that have to play each other every year. SEC will get the preference in the rankings because 10 out of 14 of those teams could easily go to a different conference and make some big noise not having to play all of those SEC teams.
It's known and to ignore it is stupid, SEC will have the toughest schedules because of the quality of opponents that they play. Until ND joins a respectable conference for football, I won't take them seriously as a football program. Are they good? Yes. Do they deserve to be in the National Championship? Yes, they beat all of their teams. Are they going to win? I don't think it'll be close, based on the observations above. I would take ND's schedule any day of the week over any of the SEC's.
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Heh I see that schedule and have a completely different reaction. Maybe it's because every weekend I'm watching ACC and SEC games for myself instead of hearing the hype from the hype technicians behind the sportscenter desk. You think Notre Dames schedule is bad but really now
Western Kentucky- Ohio valley conference isn't it? X Arkansas- lol what more needs to be said. X Florida Atlantic- .. jeez this is hard coming up with ways to say the team is truly bad. X Mizzou- lost to Vanderbilt should be voted off the island. X Tennessee- lost to everyone/coach is a joke/his contract is funnier/also lost to Vandy. X West Carolina- as you correctly identified it's a cupcake Auburn- Worst season in my living memory.
Games that if had Alabama lost they would have dropped straight out of the top 10: 7 out of 12. I'm not saying that they had an easy schedule but trying to write off seven out of the twelve teams they played as SEC tough as nails is just wrong. At least 4 of those were cupcake quality games. All of them were routs.
The only team with a losing record Notre Dame has played is Boston College. Compare that to Alabama with 6 victories over 5-7 or worse teams. Who has the easier schedule now? Editing in just to make that clear- that was rhetorical. What it really comes down to though is what you value more:
The team that beats up a bunch of shit teams or the team that won ugly over some average and good teams.
Remember what happened to Oregon. They stomped all over easy teams and what happened when they lost -----> out of the picture. With Alabamas actual schedule and not the mythological amount of hype that people generalize SEC with- they've had a comparable year to Oregon. A better team than Oregon in my opinion but not as hard as some schedules including the one listed under the Notre Dame header.
I was going to hold this back but I decided fuck it I have one more thing to add. The only reason Alabama is a contender for the national title is because Ohio State isn't eligible. Think about that. That's one of the reasons why I dislike the idea of the playoff system (I still think it's good, but this is a detractor). Winners win. Losers don't. Alabama didn't win. Ohio State won. Notre Dame won. You can write thousands and thousands of pages on why XYZ Colorado and Boston College and University of Lafayette-Monroe should be playing for the championship and it'll make just as much sense. The team that ends the season undefeated is the victor.
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8/14 seasons since the BCS began in 1998, a 1/2 loss team has played for a national championship. 3 of those years, both teams had at least one loss. 5 of the BCS champions have had a loss, so the whole "you have to win every game" thing just seems like rhetoric to me.
I think the BCS pretty much vindicated itself last year when it put Alabama into a rematch with LSU, and Alabama WON.
Edit: Tyrann "Honey Badger" Mathieu declares for NFL draft.
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I can't wait until the top 6 SEC teams go undefeated in bowls and we put all this nonsense to bed for another year.
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On November 30 2012 01:33 Probe1 wrote:Heh I see that schedule and have a completely different reaction. Maybe it's because every weekend I'm watching ACC and SEC games for myself instead of hearing the hype from the hype technicians behind the sportscenter desk. You think Notre Dames schedule is bad but really now Show nested quote +Western Kentucky- Ohio valley conference isn't it? X Arkansas- lol what more needs to be said. X Florida Atlantic- .. jeez this is hard coming up with ways to say the team is truly bad. X Mizzou- lost to Vanderbilt should be voted off the island. X Tennessee- lost to everyone/coach is a joke/his contract is funnier/also lost to Vandy. X West Carolina- as you correctly identified it's a cupcake Auburn- Worst season in my living memory.
Games that if had Alabama lost they would have dropped straight out of the top 10: 7 out of 12. I'm not saying that they had an easy schedule but trying to write off seven out of the twelve teams they played as SEC tough as nails is just wrong. At least 4 of those were cupcake quality games. All of them were routs. The only team with a losing record Notre Dame has played is Boston College. Compare that to Alabama with 6 victories over 5-7 or worse teams. Who has the easier schedule now? Editing in just to make that clear- that was rhetorical. What it really comes down to though is what you value more: The team that beats up a bunch of shit teams or the team that won ugly over some average and good teams. Remember what happened to Oregon. They stomped all over easy teams and what happened when they lost -----> out of the picture. With Alabamas actual schedule and not the mythological amount of hype that people generalize SEC with- they've had a comparable year to Oregon. A better team than Oregon in my opinion but not as hard as some schedules including the one listed under the Notre Dame header.
I was going to hold this back but I decided fuck it I have one more thing to add. The only reason Alabama is a contender for the national title is because Ohio State isn't eligible. Think about that. That's one of the reasons why I dislike the idea of the playoff system (I still think it's good, but this is a detractor). Winners win. Losers don't. Alabama didn't win. Ohio State won. Notre Dame won. You can write thousands and thousands of pages on why XYZ Colorado and Boston College and University of Lafayette-Monroe should be playing for the championship and it'll make just as much sense. The team that ends the season undefeated is the victor.
You want to make the argument that if Alabama would have lost to one of those 7 out of 12 teams we can make the same argument for ND:
Navy Purdue Miami FL BYU Pitt Boston College Wake Forest USC
The only difference is, Alabama's closest game outside of the 4 pt LSU win and 5 pt TAMU loss, to two top 10 teams at the end of the season, is 33-14 vs Ole Miss, 19 point game. All of the other games were 20+ point differential against substantial opponents.
You can make every argument you want for Notre Dame and it's barely winning against shitty teams and good teams alike, but when it comes down to it if they do end up playing Alabama, we will all see how bad ND really is. (even if they play Georgia, tbh)
EDIT: If you don't like USC on that list since everyone seems to like USC for whatever reason, substitute a failed Michigan State.
Oh, and with regards to the Ohio State portion, no shit they aren't eligible, go back and read why they aren't and please try to tell us that they deserve to be playing for the national championship. They probably are the best team in the country but they shouldn't and aren't allowed to compete for it.
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On November 30 2012 03:08 Atokad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 01:33 Probe1 wrote:Heh I see that schedule and have a completely different reaction. Maybe it's because every weekend I'm watching ACC and SEC games for myself instead of hearing the hype from the hype technicians behind the sportscenter desk. You think Notre Dames schedule is bad but really now Western Kentucky- Ohio valley conference isn't it? X Arkansas- lol what more needs to be said. X Florida Atlantic- .. jeez this is hard coming up with ways to say the team is truly bad. X Mizzou- lost to Vanderbilt should be voted off the island. X Tennessee- lost to everyone/coach is a joke/his contract is funnier/also lost to Vandy. X West Carolina- as you correctly identified it's a cupcake Auburn- Worst season in my living memory.
Games that if had Alabama lost they would have dropped straight out of the top 10: 7 out of 12. I'm not saying that they had an easy schedule but trying to write off seven out of the twelve teams they played as SEC tough as nails is just wrong. At least 4 of those were cupcake quality games. All of them were routs. The only team with a losing record Notre Dame has played is Boston College. Compare that to Alabama with 6 victories over 5-7 or worse teams. Who has the easier schedule now? Editing in just to make that clear- that was rhetorical. What it really comes down to though is what you value more: The team that beats up a bunch of shit teams or the team that won ugly over some average and good teams. Remember what happened to Oregon. They stomped all over easy teams and what happened when they lost -----> out of the picture. With Alabamas actual schedule and not the mythological amount of hype that people generalize SEC with- they've had a comparable year to Oregon. A better team than Oregon in my opinion but not as hard as some schedules including the one listed under the Notre Dame header.
I was going to hold this back but I decided fuck it I have one more thing to add. The only reason Alabama is a contender for the national title is because Ohio State isn't eligible. Think about that. That's one of the reasons why I dislike the idea of the playoff system (I still think it's good, but this is a detractor). Winners win. Losers don't. Alabama didn't win. Ohio State won. Notre Dame won. You can write thousands and thousands of pages on why XYZ Colorado and Boston College and University of Lafayette-Monroe should be playing for the championship and it'll make just as much sense. The team that ends the season undefeated is the victor. You want to make the argument that if Alabama would have lost to one of those 7 out of 12 teams we can make the same argument for ND: Navy Purdue Miami FL BYU Pitt Boston College Wake Forest USC The only difference is, Alabama's closest game outside of the 4 pt LSU win and 5 pt TAMU loss, to two top 10 teams at the end of the season, is 33-14 vs Ole Miss, 19 point game. All of the other games were 20+ point differential against substantial opponents.
You can make every argument you want for Notre Dame and it's barely winning against shitty teams and good teams alike, but when it comes down to it if they do end up playing Alabama, we will all see how bad ND really is. (even if they play Georgia, tbh) EDIT: If you don't like USC on that list since everyone seems to like USC for whatever reason, substitute a failed Michigan State. Oh, and with regards to the Ohio State portion, no shit they aren't eligible, go back and read why they aren't and please try to tell us that they deserve to be playing for the national championship. They probably are the best team in the country but they shouldn't and aren't allowed to compete for it.
Ya the sad part about this is that's the only two tough games for Bama. And they nearly ( should of lost) lost to LSU and lost to Texas AM. You make it sound like ND is a bad team. ND has the #1 defense in the country. And it's not like they played against disfunctional SEC offensive teams. They held Miami (who avg 31pts a game) to 3 pts. They held Oklahoma (41.7 pts a game 7th in the country) to 1 Td and only 13 pts. They held USC (35pts game) to 1 Td and only 13 pts. And you're seriously doubting ND as a good team? The even more impressive thing is ND shutting down OU and USC offense on the road. OU avg almost 50pts at home and USC 45 pts at home. I can only imagine what ND's defense would do to an SEC offense. If you think Bama or Georgia would light up the scoreboard against ND defense then you must be sipping on some crazy batshit kool-aid. If any teams capable of putting up pts against ND it would definately be OU or USC at home. But they both could only put up a single TD each against ND. This is prob going to be a FG game. Only TD scoring would prob be on the defensive side or special team.
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Shutting down OU was impressive, but USC was playing their first game with a freshman QB. It wasn't the same offense as the one that went in averaging 35 ppg.
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When I first saw ND's schedule, I thought they were borderline insane. I have an enormous respect for them for playing all those teams let alone going 12-0. Sure some of their opponents didn't live up to preseason hype, mainly USC, but even a bad USC team ( at home nonetheless ) is still tougher than most of the teams that Bama or Georgia played this season.
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United States22883 Posts
No, it's really not. It was a bad USC team when Barkley had them at 7-4. It was just a bad team when you put a freshman QB in charge.
The most meaningful point of comparison, the one that trumps anything else you can come up with, is that Alabama slapped Michigan around, whereas ND struggled even when we had 6 turnovers. If Denard throws 3 interceptions instead of 4, Michigan wins that game or goes to OT. He had one of the worst all time games in Michigan history and we could've won - think about that.
This NC game is going to be worse than Oklahoma and OSU getting the crap kicked out of them. ND is more one dimensional than those teams were.
And I've actually watched 5 1/2 ND games this year. Be proud of your 12-0, but you should be worried.
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I never tried to imply that ND is the best team in the country, I just have a lot of respect for them. They definitely got balls willing to play all those highly praised teams, most of them on the road as well. They won all their games, ugly but they won and they deserve to be in the Championship game. Championship game isn't about the strongest teams, look at Oregon they destroyed virtually every team they played and the only loss is a 3 point game which was super close against a very good team, there is a reason Vegas has Oregon as a favorite vs. anybody on a neutral field, but they won't be playing Championship game, nor should they.
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On November 30 2012 09:20 Jibba wrote: No, it's really not. It was a bad USC team when Barkley had them at 7-4. It was just a bad team when you put a freshman QB in charge.
The most meaningful point of comparison, the one that trumps anything else you can come up with, is that Alabama slapped Michigan around, whereas ND struggled even when we had 6 turnovers. If Denard throws 3 interceptions instead of 4, Michigan wins that game or goes to OT. He had one of the worst all time games in Michigan history and we could've won - think about that.
This NC game is going to be worse than Oklahoma and OSU getting the crap kicked out of them. ND is more one dimensional than those teams were.
And I've actually watched 5 1/2 ND games this year. Be proud of your 12-0, but you should be worried. OSU lost pretty badly to FLorida. 41-14. So you're saying ND is gonna lose by at least 30pts to Georgia or Bama? Really? What like 40-3 40-6 30-0 38-0? Lmao. LOLOLOLOLOLOL LMFAO. And you mention that the most meaningful point of comparison is by judging how one team beats the same team ? Oh goodness. What do we have here. I guess Vanderbilt is just as good as Georgia or even better because Vanderbilt spanked Tennesse 41-18 while Georgia nearly lost to Tennessee right? Or wait... Maybe Ok.State is better than Florida because because ok.State womped on La Lafayette while Florida needed a lucky block punt to win it. .. C'mon man are you serious? And you think this is the most meaningful point of comparison.?
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On November 30 2012 07:32 Damiani wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 03:08 Atokad wrote:On November 30 2012 01:33 Probe1 wrote:Heh I see that schedule and have a completely different reaction. Maybe it's because every weekend I'm watching ACC and SEC games for myself instead of hearing the hype from the hype technicians behind the sportscenter desk. You think Notre Dames schedule is bad but really now Western Kentucky- Ohio valley conference isn't it? X Arkansas- lol what more needs to be said. X Florida Atlantic- .. jeez this is hard coming up with ways to say the team is truly bad. X Mizzou- lost to Vanderbilt should be voted off the island. X Tennessee- lost to everyone/coach is a joke/his contract is funnier/also lost to Vandy. X West Carolina- as you correctly identified it's a cupcake Auburn- Worst season in my living memory.
Games that if had Alabama lost they would have dropped straight out of the top 10: 7 out of 12. I'm not saying that they had an easy schedule but trying to write off seven out of the twelve teams they played as SEC tough as nails is just wrong. At least 4 of those were cupcake quality games. All of them were routs. The only team with a losing record Notre Dame has played is Boston College. Compare that to Alabama with 6 victories over 5-7 or worse teams. Who has the easier schedule now? Editing in just to make that clear- that was rhetorical. What it really comes down to though is what you value more: The team that beats up a bunch of shit teams or the team that won ugly over some average and good teams. Remember what happened to Oregon. They stomped all over easy teams and what happened when they lost -----> out of the picture. With Alabamas actual schedule and not the mythological amount of hype that people generalize SEC with- they've had a comparable year to Oregon. A better team than Oregon in my opinion but not as hard as some schedules including the one listed under the Notre Dame header.
I was going to hold this back but I decided fuck it I have one more thing to add. The only reason Alabama is a contender for the national title is because Ohio State isn't eligible. Think about that. That's one of the reasons why I dislike the idea of the playoff system (I still think it's good, but this is a detractor). Winners win. Losers don't. Alabama didn't win. Ohio State won. Notre Dame won. You can write thousands and thousands of pages on why XYZ Colorado and Boston College and University of Lafayette-Monroe should be playing for the championship and it'll make just as much sense. The team that ends the season undefeated is the victor. You want to make the argument that if Alabama would have lost to one of those 7 out of 12 teams we can make the same argument for ND: Navy Purdue Miami FL BYU Pitt Boston College Wake Forest USC The only difference is, Alabama's closest game outside of the 4 pt LSU win and 5 pt TAMU loss, to two top 10 teams at the end of the season, is 33-14 vs Ole Miss, 19 point game. All of the other games were 20+ point differential against substantial opponents.
You can make every argument you want for Notre Dame and it's barely winning against shitty teams and good teams alike, but when it comes down to it if they do end up playing Alabama, we will all see how bad ND really is. (even if they play Georgia, tbh) EDIT: If you don't like USC on that list since everyone seems to like USC for whatever reason, substitute a failed Michigan State. Oh, and with regards to the Ohio State portion, no shit they aren't eligible, go back and read why they aren't and please try to tell us that they deserve to be playing for the national championship. They probably are the best team in the country but they shouldn't and aren't allowed to compete for it. Ya the sad part about this is that's the only two tough games for Bama. And they nearly ( should of lost) lost to LSU and lost to Texas AM. You make it sound like ND is a bad team. ND has the #1 defense in the country. And it's not like they played against disfunctional SEC offensive teams. They held Miami (who avg 31pts a game) to 3 pts. They held Oklahoma (41.7 pts a game 7th in the country) to 1 Td and only 13 pts. They held USC (35pts game) to 1 Td and only 13 pts. And you're seriously doubting ND as a good team? The even more impressive thing is ND shutting down OU and USC offense on the road. OU avg almost 50pts at home and USC 45 pts at home. I can only imagine what ND's defense would do to an SEC offense. If you think Bama or Georgia would light up the scoreboard against ND defense then you must be sipping on some crazy batshit kool-aid. If any teams capable of putting up pts against ND it would definately be OU or USC at home. But they both could only put up a single TD each against ND. This is prob going to be a FG game. Only TD scoring would prob be on the defensive side or special team.
You're nitpicking certain statistics that, still, are able to be countered by looking at the opposition's same stats.
The two games you talk about with ND going on the road vs good offensive teams.
OU at home (you said 50 points, yet it's actually 41.4) - held to 13 points USC at home (you said 45 points, yet it's actually 38.5) - held to 13 points with backup/freshman QB
Now let's take a look at it from the other side. Bama's top performing opponent's offenses at home:
Michigan at home (35) - held to 14 points - we won't count this because it was at a neutral location LSU at home (33) - held to 17 Tennessee (38.25) - held to 13
I'll throw in Texas A&M's scoring for the sake of my next point: 44.8 points per game, Alabama held for 24
Let's look at the already stated games ND has played vs the non-great USC(sarcasm)/OU:
- Pittsburgh (averages 27.5 pts per game and has a 5-6 record fighting to become bowl eligible this weekend) took ND to TRIPLE Overtime AT ND with 26 points, who also allows 21 points per game, which ND was only able to summon 29) - A 6-6 Purdue team, again, at ND, put up a 3 point contest (20-17) - A 7-5 BYU team, for the third time, at ND, put up another 3 point contest (17-14)
Please try and tell me that these teams (5-6, 6-6, 7-5) are in any way of the same caliber as the only two close games of Alabama in #7 LSU (10-2) and #9 TAMU (10-2). The closest game next to these two for Alabama, as stated before, was a 19 point differential win. ---
Ya the sad part about this is that's the only two tough games for Bama. And they nearly ( should of lost) lost to LSU and lost to Texas AM.
Reminder(As stated before), you want to talk about close games that they should have lost?:
Notre Dame had vs unranked Purdue (3pt game), #18 Michigan (7 pt game), #17 Stanford (7 pt OT game), unranked BYU (3 pt game), unranked Pitt (3 pt OT game) and unranked USC (9 pt game without their starting quarterback).
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They both have decent defenses, no doubt, but there is a difference in that Alabama averages 39 pts per game (Georgia 38), Notre Dame averages 27.
More fun facts:
Notre Dame's scoring in all games 321-124 and Alabama 468-106 Alabama has to play 13 games to make it to the NC, where ND only as to play 12. Alabama's top 25 finishing opponents (as of now) are #3, #7, #9, and #19 Notre Dame's top 25 opponents finishing rankings are #8, #11, and #19
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Come back when you have some relevant arguments to make based on why you think ND will win.
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