2012 NCAA College Football Season - Page 55
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holy_war
United States3590 Posts
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feanor1
United States1899 Posts
(Not that I Teo was not a good player, but his story was propped up a ton by playing on ND. His season was not that impressive statistically.) Also You Don't Know Bo is on ESPN now. Greatest athlete of the the last 50 years probably. | ||
Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
Too bad his sob story didn't turn over any votes. Or not enough at least. | ||
Sadist
United States6977 Posts
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feanor1
United States1899 Posts
On December 09 2012 11:20 Sadist wrote: The heisman is meh. Manziel winning it as a redshirt freshman (anyone who calls him a freshman is ) but Adrian Peterson being far more dominate and not winning it is a joke. Less of a knock against Manziel than against the competition this year. | ||
Damiani
United States514 Posts
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
On December 09 2012 11:48 Damiani wrote: Heh, Manziel won the Heisman leaves a big question mark in my mind. Ya he put up some numbers but i really don't think it's Heisman worthy. Marcus Mariota and Manziel stats are almost identical yet Marcus wasn't even in the Heisman discussion. Because Mariota plays crappy Pac-12 defenses, and Manziel plays in the SEC. That's how the voters saw it, at least. Not to mention Mariota has 908 less passing yards (though with 6 more TDs and 2 less INTs), and 491 less rushing yards (and a staggering 15 less TDs, but that's not really a good comparison because he has to compete with Kenjon Barner for carries). If you want to go by stats, you'd have to give Jordan Lynch of NIU the Heisman. Stats are a crappy metric in college because teams don't play the same competition. Late edit: How the heck did Klein get in as a finalist? | ||
kukarachaa
United States284 Posts
On December 09 2012 11:11 feanor1 wrote: Thank God Teo didn't win the Heisman. Really thought Marquise Lee had the most impressive season, but hey you have to play for a winner. (Not that I Teo was not a good player, but his story was propped up a ton by playing on ND. His season was not that impressive statistically.) Also You Don't Know Bo is on ESPN now. Greatest athlete of the the last 50 years probably. I second this, I watched a lot of ND's games. Teo is good player, on a team with a lot of solid good defensive players, never once after watching him play in game, I thought to myself: sick, this guy is special he is going to do great things in the NFL. I also agree you with you on Marquise Lee he was the most impressive player this year, too bad his team's record resulted in him not being a serious contender for the Heisman. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On December 09 2012 13:50 kukarachaa wrote: He wasn't the best linebacker in the country (although for ILB, he's one of the best) and I'm not sure he'd even be the best in the Big 10. Aside from Shazier, Mauti (whose team should've been terrible) and Bullough are up there.I second this, I watched a lot of ND's games. Teo is good player, on a team with a lot of solid good defensive players, never once after watching him play in game, I thought to myself: sick, this guy is special he is going to do great things in the NFL. I also agree you with you on Marquise Lee he was the most impressive player this year, too bad his team's record resulted in him not being a serious contender for the Heisman. His Junior year was a lot more impressive; this year he was just in the right place at the right time for his interceptions (which are really not a primary outcome of playing well as a LBer), but he had no forced fumbles, few sacks and wasn't consistently outstanding. It does help that his best game was against OU, but all the top LBers played well in big games. And don't say "he was the heart of the defense" because that's every top LBer in the country. Statistically, Shazier was outstanding and incredibly clutch and was snubbed because of OSU's bowl ban (even though he's still eligible.) OSU's defense was rated worse, but then you could also bring up CJ Mosley, whose defense was better than everyone's and who also had an outstanding year. Plus if I really had to pick a LBer, it'd be Jarvis Jones. I was originally in Lee's camp for Heisman because of some of his absurd plays, but he didn't show up in some of their biggest games. Granted, a lot of that is on the rest of USC's deficiencies but this is college - it's not like you've got Revis on you. Manziel sucked twice (although the first game against Florida is easier to let slide, because it was his first college game ever) but he made A&M exponentially better, took down Alabama and broke Newton's records. Really though, the Heisman is a publicity award and it's about how well ESPN can tell your narrative. Sometimes they get it right (like RG3) but a lot of the time they just pick the story they like the most, or the QB/RB on the best team. T'eo couldn't win, the same way Suh couldn't win. If Woodson weren't returning punts and playing WR, he probably wouldn't have won either. Ferrose, to answer your question that's how Klein was considered. If KSU wins out, I bet he'd have won it. | ||
Damiani
United States514 Posts
On December 09 2012 13:34 Ferrose wrote: Because Mariota plays crappy Pac-12 defenses, and Manziel plays in the SEC. That's how the voters saw it, at least. Not to mention Mariota has 908 less passing yards (though with 6 more TDs and 2 less INTs), and 491 less rushing yards (and a staggering 15 less TDs, but that's not really a good comparison because he has to compete with Kenjon Barner for carries). If you want to go by stats, you'd have to give Jordan Lynch of NIU the Heisman. Stats are a crappy metric in college because teams don't play the same competition. Late edit: How the heck did Klein get in as a finalist? Define crappy. Cause last i checked pac-12 has the 2nd ranked defense in college football. Oh wait i forgot you're an SEC guy. Oh believe me it's not how the voters saw it. It more like they all fell onto the Johnny football hype. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Also, what on earth did you possibly "check." Even if there were a comparison of ypg or something between the conferences (which is pretty worthless), it wouldn't mean anything because every conference plays the majority of its games within itself. Or are you saying Stanford is the #2 defense in the country? | ||
feanor1
United States1899 Posts
On December 09 2012 15:40 Jibba wrote: He wasn't the best linebacker in the country (although for ILB, he's one of the best) and I'm not sure he'd even be the best in the Big 10. Aside from Shazier, Mauti (whose team should've been terrible) and Bullough are up there. His Junior year was a lot more impressive; this year he was just in the right place at the right time for his interceptions (which are really not a primary outcome of playing well as a LBer), but he had no forced fumbles, few sacks and wasn't consistently outstanding. It does help that his best game was against OU, but all the top LBers played well in big games. And don't say "he was the heart of the defense" because that's every top LBer in the country. Statistically, Shazier was outstanding and incredibly clutch and was snubbed because of OSU's bowl ban (even though he's still eligible.) OSU's defense was rated worse, but then you could also bring up CJ Mosley, whose defense was better than everyone's and who also had an outstanding year. Plus if I really had to pick a LBer, it'd be Jarvis Jones. I was originally in Lee's camp for Heisman because of some of his absurd plays, but he didn't show up in some of their biggest games. Granted, a lot of that is on the rest of USC's deficiencies but this is college - it's not like you've got Revis on you. Manziel sucked twice (although the first game against Florida is easier to let slide, because it was his first college game ever) but he made A&M exponentially better, took down Alabama and broke Newton's records. Really though, the Heisman is a publicity award and it's about how well ESPN can tell your narrative. Sometimes they get it right (like RG3) but a lot of the time they just pick the story they like the most, or the QB/RB on the best team. T'eo couldn't win, the same way Suh couldn't win. If Woodson weren't returning punts and playing WR, he probably wouldn't have won either. Ferrose, to answer your question that's how Klein was considered. If KSU wins out, I bet he'd have won it. I wouldn't put Bullough in that same group as those other three LBs, but that's just me. Yes it is really unlikely for a pure defensive player to ever win the Heisman. I mean no matter how good of a LB or CB you are you will not have the same impact on the team as a truly dominate RB, QB, or WR. If you replace Teo with an average LB maybe ND loses on additional game. If you replace Manziel I would bet T A&M loses more than one more. No way Woodson beats Manning if he didn't play both ways and on special teams. When he came into the game on offense you knew they were going to get the ball to him, and he still had a bunch of big plays. | ||
LosingID8
CA10824 Posts
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10340 Posts
On December 09 2012 13:34 Ferrose wrote: Because Mariota plays crappy Pac-12 defenses, and Manziel plays in the SEC. lol | ||
Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
On December 10 2012 00:21 LosingID8 wrote: mariota's stats would have been out of this world if he hadn't been taken out of most games by halftime. And like I said, he has another potential Heisman candidate in his backfield in Kenjon Barner. Manziel IS his team's entire offense. | ||
trainRiderJ
United States615 Posts
On December 10 2012 00:21 LosingID8 wrote: mariota's stats would have been out of this world if he hadn't been taken out of most games by halftime. So would Manziel's. His yards per quarter played are better than Tebow, Bradford, Newton, and Griffin in the year each of them won the Heisman. | ||
Damiani
United States514 Posts
On December 10 2012 12:26 trainRiderJ wrote: So would Manziel's. His yards per quarter played are better than Tebow, Bradford, Newton, and Griffin in the year each of them won the Heisman. Umm.. Manziel played almost every game to it's entirety. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Plus the fact that they only invited three seems rather strange to me. Weak Heisman year and some meh choices. | ||
trainRiderJ
United States615 Posts
On December 10 2012 12:49 Damiani wrote: Umm.. Manziel played almost every game to it's entirety. Manziel sat out 4 complete and 5 more partial quarters over the course of the season. He came out early in 7 games. | ||
Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On December 10 2012 14:03 Jibba wrote: Mariota should've been considered too, certainly more than Klein imo. Plus the fact that they only invited three seems rather strange to me. Weak Heisman year and some meh choices. They've started to only invite three recently. And Klein got the benefit of the hype the entire Kstate team received, despite them being over-hyped entirely. Good QB, but when you play teams that are actually decent (hell, at least Oregon had to play USC/UCLA/and the sleepers of this ncaa season, Stanford) and aren't all whatsamattaU, your Heisman potential goes waaaaaay down. | ||
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