Looks like we could see the DFM in a couple of days. Here is the list of bugs outstanding. Chris Roberts posted the list on the 28th, and Travis Day gave us an update:
Blockers Vanduul Swarm –Driver Crash - Fixed Lag in feedback and update of essential game events resulting in increasingly divergent multiplayer sync
Critical Battle Royale (Crash) – While Flying (Shader) - Fixed Camera – After respawn character is stuck looking up. - Still Open Vanduul Swarm (Crash) – Shortly after missile lock - Fixed All Maps – Occasionally, when first spawning into the maps lasers and ballistic fire is invisible but can be heard when firing – they eventually appear - Seems fixed. Crash on exit after returning from DFM match - Fixed. Character is unable to exit DFM Aurora bed if helmet is on - Fixed. Gforce animations are not playing on the pilot in any of the ships Fixed, awaiting full regression test. Character and parts of cockpit interior vanish while accelerating - Fixed. Note that anything listed here as fixed is "Claimed Fixed".
On May 29 2014 17:43 MrTortoise wrote: I was gonna say they haven't shown anything special at all yet except that they have some decent artists who are leaning on a game engine that someone else wrote.
I really want to find a good game and i hope this will be it. But so far all i have seen is hype over basically the output of [insert 3d modelling program here]
This dogfight better be worth it lol. Implementing a 3d spaceflight sim is really not hard with only a meager understanding of things like matricies - its like the very basics of 3d geometry.
so not only have you not seen anything they've shown us (and they have shown a lot), you have absolutely no clue what it takes to develop a game of this magnitude. how about you spend a few weeks going through the comm link and educating yourself before you say something that makes you look silly.
On May 29 2014 18:21 -Archangel- wrote: Well for people that cannot wait, check out Elite: Dangerous. It offers much more than Star Citizen.
actually they are very similar, it's just elite relies more on procedural content.
On another note, it still baffles and shocks me how much people complain about alpha releases (specifically on the SC forums). Don't throw money at stuff if you don't understand the transaction.
On June 01 2014 06:38 Jockmcplop wrote: I wish i could afford Elite. I can't though
On another note, it still baffles and shocks me how much people complain about alpha releases (specifically on the SC forums). Don't throw money at stuff if you don't understand the transaction.
Well, it's more about that people have to pay to alpha/beta test for devs instead of being pair to test. That's the whole mess of paid alpha/beta/early access. Yes, a lot of people complain about unfinished games and I don't understand that either because it says what it is. But complaining about the whole thing is actually a fair point.
Its not pay to win. Find out more details by: 1) Looking at the website for more than 5 seconds 2) Reading this thread 3) Doing any kind of research on the matter
On May 29 2014 17:43 MrTortoise wrote: I was gonna say they haven't shown anything special at all yet except that they have some decent artists who are leaning on a game engine that someone else wrote.
I really want to find a good game and i hope this will be it. But so far all i have seen is hype over basically the output of [insert 3d modelling program here]
This dogfight better be worth it lol. Implementing a 3d spaceflight sim is really not hard with only a meager understanding of things like matricies - its like the very basics of 3d geometry.
so not only have you not seen anything they've shown us (and they have shown a lot), you have absolutely no clue what it takes to develop a game of this magnitude. how about you spend a few weeks going through the comm link and educating yourself before you say something that makes you look silly.
As a veteran backer I completely disgree, what he's saying is basically a truism if you only consider what's been shown so far. The ships in the hangar are still uncompleted and require a lot of work, and the dogfighting module (based on what he have seen) is fairly straightforward. And we would expect it to be given that this game is in pre-alpha stage, right? Its completely obvious.
So yes nothing special has really been *shown* (apart from, perhaps, the design of the ships), but I think that something special has been *promised* in terms of how deeply this game will try to capture the details and vagaries of space combat. They even hired this extremely intelligent team composed of programmers and physicists (one of whom worked on modelling the inflation of the universe) to try to work out a way to procedurally generate certain planets! Imagine space to atmospheric flight on a small planetoid, it would just be mindblowing with that kind of graphical fidelity (depending on distance of course).
Nowhere did he state that the game should be farther along than it is, he's simply making a judgement on what's been shown, so you're the one being a bit silly here. To tortoise I'd say just wait and see, when you throw upwards of $40 million at a game I don't think you can go too far wrong .
On June 01 2014 08:32 Jockmcplop wrote: Its not pay to win. Find out more details by: 1) Looking at the website for more than 5 seconds 2) Reading this thread 3) Doing any kind of research on the matter
So you're saying having a hangar full of ships at launch isn't pay to win.
On June 01 2014 10:55 Jockmcplop wrote: Its not, if you can't be bothered to look around and find out for yourself, you probably wouldn't enjoy the game anyway
I looked at the website. The best ships are locked behind a Ten THOUSAND dollar pay wall. $10,000!
This game is 100% pay to win. And not just pay a few bucks. Its thousands of them to win. Still think this game is a scam.
On June 01 2014 10:55 Jockmcplop wrote: Its not, if you can't be bothered to look around and find out for yourself, you probably wouldn't enjoy the game anyway
I looked at the website. The best ships are locked behind a Ten THOUSAND dollar pay wall. $10,000!
This game is 100% pay to win. And not just pay a few bucks. Its thousands of them to win. Still think this game is a scam.
Well you can have the best ship but if you don't know how to fly them properly then you still gonna get shot down very easily by lesser ship with more skilled pilot. And when you are shot down your ship is gone forever.
It's kinda like EVE that you can have the best and most expensive ship but if you don't know what you are doing then you would just throw your money away.
On June 01 2014 10:55 Jockmcplop wrote: Its not, if you can't be bothered to look around and find out for yourself, you probably wouldn't enjoy the game anyway
I looked at the website. The best ships are locked behind a Ten THOUSAND dollar pay wall. $10,000!
This game is 100% pay to win. And not just pay a few bucks. Its thousands of them to win. Still think this game is a scam.
The "best" ships aren't locked behind anything as you can buy them with in game currency. I'd also love to know how one wins a space sim, or an mmo, but I have a feeling you're not interested in actually knowing about the game. Reading is hard, after all.
On June 01 2014 10:55 Jockmcplop wrote: Its not, if you can't be bothered to look around and find out for yourself, you probably wouldn't enjoy the game anyway
I looked at the website. The best ships are locked behind a Ten THOUSAND dollar pay wall. $10,000!
This game is 100% pay to win. And not just pay a few bucks. Its thousands of them to win. Still think this game is a scam.
The "best" ships aren't locked behind anything as you can buy them with in game currency. I'd also love to know how one wins a space sim, or an mmo, but I have a feeling you're not interested in actually knowing about the game. Reading is hard, after all.
Did the reading. It's a very unique concept of a game but it is absolutely PAY to win. Free players and even, not paying thousands of dollars players will be at a huge disadvantage. PvP is the main selling point of this game and the better your ship is, the better your chances are in PvP.
You can't win an MMO but being able to spend money to make yourself be more successful is stupid. Hence, its pay to win.
I thought they all have advantages and disadvantages, and that the huge skill ceiling in games like this is what will make the difference in a battle. This argument has been done to death. You don't get an advantage by paying more money.
I'm out of this discussion now, Chris Roberts has spoken. (at 5:00)
On June 01 2014 10:55 Jockmcplop wrote: Its not, if you can't be bothered to look around and find out for yourself, you probably wouldn't enjoy the game anyway
I looked at the website. The best ships are locked behind a Ten THOUSAND dollar pay wall. $10,000!
This game is 100% pay to win. And not just pay a few bucks. Its thousands of them to win. Still think this game is a scam.
The "best" ships aren't locked behind anything as you can buy them with in game currency. I'd also love to know how one wins a space sim, or an mmo, but I have a feeling you're not interested in actually knowing about the game. Reading is hard, after all.
Did the reading. It's a very unique concept of a game but it is absolutely PAY to win. Free players and even, not paying thousands of dollars players will be at a huge disadvantage. PvP is the main selling point of this game and the better your ship is, the better your chances are in PvP.
You can't win an MMO but being able to spend money to make yourself be more successful is stupid. Hence, its pay to win.
People said this before regarding EVE online too. "EVE is definitely pay to win because you can buy PLEX and sell them in game for money to buy the best ship, the best weapons and the best mods!" It turns out that the best ships with the best weapons pilot by zero skill pilot got ganked and die all the time. Some skilled pilots even take those ship down one-on-one. This is kinda the same, if you don't know how to pilot your ship, the strength and weakness of your ship and opponent's ship, then you kinda gonna die all the same. And the more expensive the ship is, the more likely it would become a target of ganking.
say what you want. There is a distinct advantage to being able to buy big ships from the start. Esp when whole alliances are buying themselves cap fleets.
Can it be overcome? yes. Does that makes it less pay to win? no.
Gorsameth I'll try to put this as best I can in LoL terms.
I was in LoL since alpha all the way to release back in 2009.
Just before release Riot announced their store model. You could get all the runes and characters by playing the game, earning IP. It was a long process but achievable and people felt good making that progress.
Or you could buy RP and skip the entire process.
Lots of people complained that LoL was NOT F2P but P2W. I remember people making the same argument you are making now. "OMG you can buy all the heroes and always play the strong ones that take no skill and rape face and get all the runes you want and always be the strongest and never die!"
Well as we know by now, that's not the case. It really does come down to skill. Champs that people thought were weak at release. Rammus for example. A big tank that sucked is what I heard a lot at release. People wanted him BUFFED. Never got played until someone figured out how to jungle with him. Now all of a sudden he's "broken Overpowered OMG how could Riot not know this?" It wasn't the champions fault. A player with skill took the time to make a shitty hero into a great one.
Now we can compare SC. All the different ways to mod your ship is like the rune system. Do I want more armor? Or more damage? Then there are the items themselves, all the types of guns/missiles. Some work better with some ships than others. Just like items in LoL with champs. Could you get a bloodthirster for Soraka? Sure, if you really wanted to. It's not a great item for her but you can still do it and depending on you "skill" you may do great or suck.
So basically it all comes down to skill. You could have the worst player in the world controlling the current strongest meta champ in LoL but he will lose to any of the best players in the world playing the worst meta champ and that "strong" champ will lose due to his lack of skill.
Auroras can kill hornets depending the skill of the pilot. I can't say if it's harder than say a 300i vs a hornet because the game isn't out yet. But a soraka vs a graves. On paper who should win? In reality it comes down to skill. So instead of these people buying hundreds of dollars in champs and runes. They are buying ships. Sure some have an Idris but thy doesn't mean they will know how to use it.
I trust CIG just like I trusted Riot back in the day. Give it time and a chance.
On June 01 2014 23:07 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: Gorsameth I'll try to put this as best I can in LoL terms.
I was in LoL since alpha all the way to release back in 2009.
Just before release Riot announced their store model. You could get all the runes and characters by playing the game, earning IP. It was a long process but achievable and people felt good making that progress.
Or you could buy RP and skip the entire process.
Lots of people complained that LoL was NOT F2P but P2W. I remember people making the same argument you are making now. "OMG you can buy all the heroes and always play the strong ones that take no skill and rape face and get all the runes you want and always be the strongest and never die!"
Well as we know by now, that's not the case. It really does come down to skill. Champs that people thought were weak at release. Rammus for example. A big tank that sucked is what I heard a lot at release. People wanted him BUFFED. Never got played until someone figured out how to jungle with him. Now all of a sudden he's "broken Overpowered OMG how could Riot not know this?" It wasn't the champions fault. A player with skill took the time to make a shitty hero into a great one.
Now we can compare SC. All the different ways to mod your ship is like the rune system. Do I want more armor? Or more damage? Then there are the items themselves, all the types of guns/missiles. Some work better with some ships than others. Just like items in LoL with champs. Could you get a bloodthirster for Soraka? Sure, if you really wanted to. It's not a great item for her but you can still do it and depending on you "skill" you may do great or suck.
So basically it all comes down to skill. You could have the worst player in the world controlling the current strongest meta champ in LoL but he will lose to any of the best players in the world playing the worst meta champ and that "strong" champ will lose due to his lack of skill.
Auroras can kill hornets depending the skill of the pilot. I can't say if it's harder than say a 300i vs a hornet because the game isn't out yet. But a soraka vs a graves. On paper who should win? In reality it comes down to skill. So instead of these people buying hundreds of dollars in champs and runes. They are buying ships. Sure some have an Idris but thy doesn't mean they will know how to use it.
I trust CIG just like I trusted Riot back in the day. Give it time and a chance.
Except for the whole part where this game is an MMO. Its not about fighter A vs Figher B. Its about one guy starting in a Fighter and the other having a capital fleet. The second person will progress (make money/conquer territory whatever) a lot faster. Its about someone starting out as a new pilot in EVE while the other starts as a fully functional 0.0 alliance. Skills aside one side has a massive advantage.
And that's still an issue of skill. Imperium and xplor are the biggest but look at all the shit they are recruiting. My org is only 500 strong but I'm confident we're vastly superior to the 5000 strong orgs. I don't see it being a problem if we're losing 1 ship to 25. This is all theory crafting of course but we've been training and working together since the game was being kick started. We know how to work together. Just like a pro team in LoL compares to your average thrown together teams.
Long term? Yeah a new player joining in 3-5 years has a choice of going at it alone and behind or joining a big organization an "skipping" but that is an issue in every PvP oriented MMO. Not just SC or EVE.
1 person in an aurora vs 1 person in a 300i. Well the aurora can carry more cargo than a 300. 300 is slightly faster so it could make the runs faster. It all comes down to skill on what to sell where for what an how far and how fast.
1 person in an idris can't crew it alone, unless he hires NPCs but they could still "lose" to a few guys in fighters due to "skill" and because NPCs are shittier than having people crew your ship but even THEN you could still lose. Having a bigger ship does not make you a more skilled and/or better player. It makes you a bigger target and still able to lose. Just like the EVE example given above by another poster.