EDIT: You might make the case that forcing invasions make it more fun for people who want to invade, but then you're reinforcing my earlier point: You're rewarding players for being assholes, you let them have fun with their twinks at the cost of people who just wants to enjoy the game.
Dark Souls II - Page 11
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
EDIT: You might make the case that forcing invasions make it more fun for people who want to invade, but then you're reinforcing my earlier point: You're rewarding players for being assholes, you let them have fun with their twinks at the cost of people who just wants to enjoy the game. | ||
PassiveAce
United States18069 Posts
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BlitzerSC
Italy8800 Posts
Many people probably had the same experience as me. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES48987 Posts
On June 19 2013 01:11 BlitzerSC wrote: I'm fine with the invading concept, what I don't like though is that you can invade people who have low level. When I was noob I had quite some difficulties beating the gargoyles and I wanted to use Solaire to kill them but it was fucking impossible to reach the boss room without getting invaded by some prick with end game gear who just sits there to troll you. Many people probably had the same experience as me. wait I thought you could only invade people with higher soul level than you... | ||
PassiveAce
United States18069 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12180 Posts
On June 18 2013 04:41 Fruscainte wrote: This is only reinforced in DaS2 with their mirror knight boss summoning real players to help the boss out. This sounds amazing and is such an appropriate Dark Souls mechanic. I played through most of Dark Souls in Undead mode but mainly because I just kept dying. I was invaded 4 times, two times I killed the invader which felt awesome, and two times I died but it wasn't too frustrating (except for the guy in the expansion zone who used dark magic and I wasn't at all prepared). I understand the concerns with hackers as well, but from what I understand they weren't too prevalent. | ||
Cynry
810 Posts
On June 19 2013 01:17 PassiveAce wrote: Yeah but you can still grief by keeping a deliberately low SL while pimping out your gear. And you absolutely can invade lower SLs through a few covenants as well. Darkmoon, gravelord, maybe dragons as well ? Can't remember... @excalibur : Totally agreed. I don't think constant invasion would be a good idea as such, but I definitely hope they build upon their original multiplayer integration and step it up from here. | ||
Simberto
Germany11032 Posts
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PassiveAce
United States18069 Posts
Like simberto said, griefing is way more prevalent now that there are significantly less players at any one time. | ||
Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
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PassiveAce
United States18069 Posts
On June 19 2013 01:42 Kazeyonoma wrote: What would the entire DeS and DS franchise be without griefing They would be better games. | ||
Cynry
810 Posts
We get it, you don't enjoy the system. We agree, the system isn't perfect. But making up a behavior for noobs, one which doesn't exist (no noob is going for a alive all time playthrough) to justify all this is dishonest. Can we get over this now ? Edit : mh that's a bit harsh and I apologize. I guess it's too bad the game turned in a grief-fest only. I see how that can alter the experience. But I don't think griefing should be removed from the game, especially as there are ways to avoid it. And please don't pull the constant invasion debate up. No way this will be the case. | ||
BlitzerSC
Italy8800 Posts
On June 19 2013 01:45 Cynry wrote: No one on his first playthrough is going to spend all his humanity (which is what 7or 8 at that point ?) only to get his ass kicked in the burg. If they do so, it's all on them as far as I'm concerned. If they get frustrated for dying once or twice to twinks before figuring out how to avoid them, again, their problem. We get it, you don't enjoy the system. We agree, the system isn't perfect. But making up a behavior for noobs, one which doesn't exist (no noob is going for a alive all time playthrough) to justify all this is dishonest. Can we get over this now ? What ? I'm fine with the concept of invading AS LONG AS we are on the same equipment. Do you think it's fair that some dumbass goes through all the game on SL 1 just to troll people in the burg with end game gear ? It's a waste of time, they just stand there doing nothing while your attack do 0 dmg and when they get tired they just instagib you with pyromancy. That's some nice pvp right there. edit: Ok, you edited while I was typing. Then it's allright, we agree that griefing shouldn't be allowed . | ||
Cynry
810 Posts
I played quite some multiplayer games where griefing were allowed. Although I don't do it, I think it can add to the game, as long a there are ways to prevent it/always a chance for the griefed. Which DS1 offered. So I'm fine with it, although it's sad if that's all PvP is about these days. And I'm also fine with a game being unfair. Especially dark souls. Probably a masochist point of view, but to each is own, right :-D Also pretty sure if you do absolutly no damage it's because of hacks, but... Yeah just look at my sig. | ||
NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
Reason for that is because i went trough the most game in undead form and i didnt really bother being human. I should add that im a noob but still being human and being able to summon bots against some bosses (and having some boosts to stats?) didnt make me want to go human. (and for that reason I fortunatelly didnt have the same experience as you guys regarding griefing) So with that change there would be a thin line where you would actually be willing to risk people invading you constantly just for the benefits of being human. Of course the way things currently stand, the above change would only make the griefing and invading problem worse and for that reason I think invaders should somehow have a weaker form when they invade your world because cmon, if you have absolutely 0 chance to win its dumb and gets old fast. You could always put some items in the game that should be super hard to get and which would allow invaders to have there full power form when invading (and which would have limited amounts of use). But this is just the noob in me talking so Im fully aware this would make a whole set of other problems arise and it is kinda lame. | ||
Simberto
Germany11032 Posts
On June 19 2013 01:55 Cynry wrote: No we don't I played quite some multiplayer games where griefing were allowed. Although I don't do it, I think it can add to the game, as long a there are ways to prevent it/always a chance for the griefed. Which DS1 offered. So I'm fine with it, although it's sad if that's all PvP is about these days. And I'm also fine with a game being unfair. Especially dark souls. Probably a masochist point of view, but to each is own, right :-D Also pretty sure if you do absolutly no damage it's because of hacks, but... Yeah just look at my sig. Don't know, to me the whole point of DS is that it is hard, but fair. If you die, it is always because you fucked up. Yes, you might need to die a few times to learn the enemy tells, but you can usually do that by watching them from a distance most of the time. And maybe i am a bit jaded here, but when i started playing, everyone told me not to look stuff up. So i didn't. And i just assumed that being alive must have SOME advantage, maybe better drops or something like that, otherwise why would that mechanic even be there at all? So i tried to be alive as much as possible, and lost most of my humanity to assholes. It was quite a relief when i learned that there is actually no difference between being alive and being dead except that you can't kindle bonfires. | ||
Cynry
810 Posts
So much for making up behaviors... My bad. The "fair" bit is right for most of the game, but not for invasions. Even without grifers you can get invaded by multiple ghosts, they can arrive at some bad times, etc... I guess I'm a bit on the edge about all this simply because dark souls is the only franchise which takes the stance of fucking with the player by all means, which I really enjoyed in these days of hand holding and games dumbing down. In the end, it's a matter of taste, but we agree, I think, that it could be improved upon. I'm just afraid that what I loved about it might be diluted because of complaints, be they legits or not. | ||
dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
On June 19 2013 02:27 Cynry wrote: Mh ok, I see where you're coming from now. Kinda unlucky chain of events, that you played he game the right way (without spoils I mean) but at the wrong time. So much for making up behaviors... My bad. The "fair" bit is right for most of the game, but not for invasions. Even without grifers you can get invaded by multiple ghosts, they can arrive at some bad times, etc... I guess I'm a bit on the edge about all this simply because dark souls is the only franchise which takes the stance of fucking with the player by all means, which I really enjoyed in these days of hand holding and games dumbing down. In the end, it's a matter of taste, but we agree, I think, that it could be improved upon. I'm just afraid that what I loved about it might be diluted because of complaints, be they legits or not. One can only hope that they stay close to the spirt of Dark Souls' PVP while avoiding exploits that will give people unfair advantages that ruin the experience for legit players. I used to love the idea of making a really lob-sided character build and being terrible in many situations, making it worthwhile to summon phantoms, but it did get annoying to be invaded by some asshole with 100k HP who used an exploit before the game was fixed when your character is intentionally shitty. It's not a massive deal but it would be nice if they strive for something of a balance of power for PVP. Or else, why even play in online mode? | ||
Cynry
810 Posts
Edit : I actually did most of my looked after PvP with a lob sided character. Light armor, rapier, throwing toxic dumps everywhere. Didn't work for shit when everyone was ninja rolling in heavy armor, but I had fun anyway ^^ Dark souls for me isn't about winning, and that's part of what I enjoyed. | ||
Sandster
United States4054 Posts
I don't understand why you think getting invaded is part of it, because yes most of invasions WILL be griefs. Just because YOU didn't have a problem with it doesn't mean that players who are new to the game and trying to figure out everything should be forced to suffer. Even without invasions, there are some zones that are incredibly difficult your first time through and the last thing you want to do is get invaded. Blighttown, Shen's Fortress, and parts of Anor Londo are all early enough in the game that you have poor equipment, and have such punitive terrain that an invasion really fucks a new player over. You like invasions? Then stay human. Don't force that on everyone. This isn't about being a carebear. The game is pretty fucking hard, even without idiots deliberately trying to make your life miserable. | ||
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