Swiss i think is the perfect structure if it was played as a bo3. However that would cause the tournament to be like 2 weeks long xD but that is the only way i think a swiss system would work fairly in any Esport just to how in every single game anyone can take 1 map off anyone.
That said i hope SK can get a good seeding going into the play off bracket. Hopefully get a good map vs Penta and take that bo1 to give them a good step in the right direction!
Well im a huge fan of both BIG and Faze so im fine with this. Im really scared about Faze looking out of it AND the potential of them playing vs Flipside/penta next round.
On July 17 2017 16:23 Pandemona wrote: Swiss draws for matches are so silly at times. C9 Big Gambit G2 face eachother whilst the big 4 astralis sk vp fnatic all play eachother haha
Im pretty sure C9, Gambit and G2 all are better than vp or fnatic atm ;D
On July 17 2017 16:23 Pandemona wrote: Swiss draws for matches are so silly at times. C9 Big Gambit G2 face eachother whilst the big 4 astralis sk vp fnatic all play eachother haha
Im pretty sure C9, Gambit and G2 all are better than vp or fnatic atm ;D
Gambit for sure, but i mean in terms of prestige and previous major exp and "seeding" those 4 should have played the other 4 etc. Just seems harsh that SK vs Astralis is a game and C9 vs BIG is a winners game etc. Oh well have to beat everyone etcetc.
Seems like Faze will survive with a scare. They still need to wake up for the next games. Especially Karrigan and Kioshima need to step up, and the team as a whole needs to stop doing stupid shit.
The no GPU thing on shroud is a reason for a replay game , i dont think anyone should play with such a handicap mainly because its not the same setup for everyone (at least according to the tweet)).
What the hell? I hope he means no drivers installed and not actually no GPU... I just lost tons of "fake" money cus of this shit up. Yeah it's not real money but still, I'm competing against a friend >.>
Honestly, how the fuck does shroud doesnt realize he doesnt have the performance he should (i mean, he probably has a pretty comparable set up at his house, the difference would be marginally, going from a 1070/1080 to a on board GPU its not MARGINAL).
blame is on him, he can call a technical time out JUST TO BE SURE OF IT
On July 18 2017 03:24 Faruko wrote: Honestly, how the fuck does shroud doesnt realize he doesnt have the performance he should (i mean, he probably has a pretty comparable set up at his house, the difference would be marginally, going from a 1070/1080 to a on board GPU its not MARGINAL).
blame is on him, he can call a technical time out JUST TO BE SURE OF IT
Yeah, blame a player who has to worry about a million other things and not the incompetent TO. Players should be able to assume that their pcs are setup properly. This isn't some tournament in your friend's basement. This is supposed to be the highest tier event in a game played by millions.
On July 18 2017 03:24 Faruko wrote: Honestly, how the fuck does shroud doesnt realize he doesnt have the performance he should (i mean, he probably has a pretty comparable set up at his house, the difference would be marginally, going from a 1070/1080 to a on board GPU its not MARGINAL).
blame is on him, he can call a technical time out JUST TO BE SURE OF IT
Yeah, blame a player who has to worry about a million other things and not the incompetent TO. Players should be able to assume that their pcs are setup properly. This isn't some tournament in your friend's basement. This is supposed to be the highest tier event in a game played by millions.
Hmm, i kinda agree, he should be worried about his own performance not the computers
On July 18 2017 03:24 Faruko wrote: Honestly, how the fuck does shroud doesnt realize he doesnt have the performance he should (i mean, he probably has a pretty comparable set up at his house, the difference would be marginally, going from a 1070/1080 to a on board GPU its not MARGINAL).
blame is on him, he can call a technical time out JUST TO BE SURE OF IT
Yeah, blame a player who has to worry about a million other things and not the incompetent TO. Players should be able to assume that their pcs are setup properly. This isn't some tournament in your friend's basement. This is supposed to be the highest tier event in a game played by millions.
Wut ? the performance would have been incredibly variable for an on board gpu, if im THAT profesional i would have catch on quick and say "hey, admin pls, i have some frame rate problems"
thats like saying a player would never feel a deflated ball on football.
pretty terrible argument to be honest
to be honest, im kinda with you that PGL should take some blame, but if the player isnt saying anything why would they think theres something wrong ? these are humans btw, not robots
Honestly hopefully BIG just wins the major using the jump bug as much as possible. This amount of crying is absolutely ridiculous and if tournament says it's allowed, then it's allowed.
Edit: ESPECIALLY because other teams have already used it. Ropz even used it after a "gentlemans agreement" for mouz vs faze game (i don't really care that he used it, but its pretty dumb that its just being ignored :D)
On July 18 2017 05:41 plasmidghost wrote: This has to be one of the strangest buys I've ever seen in pro CS, two AWPs and no rifles, what's the reasoning behind this?
On July 18 2017 05:41 plasmidghost wrote: This has to be one of the strangest buys I've ever seen in pro CS, two AWPs and no rifles, what's the reasoning behind this?
its saddening me to see flusha as igl. he is capable of doing at least ten times better than this but being igl limits his potential. imo godsent with pronax, znajder, lekr0, flusha&jw had more potential than this fnatic.
On July 18 2017 20:47 Pontual wrote: This ad by fnatic was so cringy it'll appear on watchmojo top 10 cringiest commercials
did they used the infamous "every gravedigger dies" again?
Don't know wich one that was, but this time it was kinda an animation where the Fnatic clothed CTs turned to their back and it was full of fnatic fans cheering for them, then suddendly the screen focuses a guy with fnatic hoodie and this guy just makes a creepy
Damn those dual combat awps. So sick when its pulled off. Dont try this in MM kids..
Also that win vs SK in Katowice has duped Na'vi into thinking they are good on overpass when they literally get wrecked on it by nearly everyone else the last few tournaments.
Their best results have been on Mirage and (strangely) Train. And those arent really maps to write home about either lol.
On July 18 2017 20:18 Luolis wrote: Waylander with an awp 3k lmao
Fake Fin > Real Fin. I am so sad I didnt see the sigbet in time QQ
On July 18 2017 20:47 Pontual wrote: This ad by fnatic was so cringy it'll appear on watchmojo top 10 cringiest commercials
did they used the infamous "every gravedigger dies" again?
Don't know wich one that was, but this time it was kinda an animation where the Fnatic clothed CTs turned to their back and it was full of fnatic fans cheering for them, then suddendly the screen focuses a guy with fnatic hoodie and this guy just makes a creepy
On July 18 2017 20:47 Pontual wrote: This ad by fnatic was so cringy it'll appear on watchmojo top 10 cringiest commercials
did they used the infamous "every gravedigger dies" again?
Don't know wich one that was, but this time it was kinda an animation where the Fnatic clothed CTs turned to their back and it was full of fnatic fans cheering for them, then suddendly the screen focuses a guy with fnatic hoodie and this guy just makes a creepy
On July 18 2017 20:47 Pontual wrote: This ad by fnatic was so cringy it'll appear on watchmojo top 10 cringiest commercials
did they used the infamous "every gravedigger dies" again?
Don't know wich one that was, but this time it was kinda an animation where the Fnatic clothed CTs turned to their back and it was full of fnatic fans cheering for them, then suddendly the screen focuses a guy with fnatic hoodie and this guy just makes a creepy
On July 19 2017 02:52 Muffloe wrote: why did i get my hopes up, i knew there would be no t side to show for
aaaaaaaaaahhhhhh
Looks like a decent T side .... they had some really well though out rounds. The one A play where they came up vent door and cabin actually had long term ramification. Made it so that xyp had to give up aggressive angles to make sure they dont cross to vent on secret and he got absolutely boned doing it.
Its an example of a well crafted long term moves that Fnatic lacked on the T side so win or lose its a significant improvement. Normally they just get crushed by organized teams that are willing to gamble a little.
Win or lose its a much better performance against one of the two best teams on nuke imo.
WTF flusha was doing this game , he played one of the worst CT winning side , they played 4v5 , if he was playing anywhere near a pro level they wouldve wrecked them 13-2 or something ..................... damn Fnatic
Neo is not pulling his weight missing all the duels some of them he has the angles to shoot first i thought he would be better once he stopped IGL ..... we really need him to step up and be on the same level of the rest of the team.
So happy for Zeus if they make legend again , showing his class as IGL taking a talented but with no results or structure and taking them to the top of the scene , i wouldnt mind a VP comeback but cant be mad about gambit !!!! Also VP are far from the playoffs all the 2-1 teams are VERY strong and they can easily be playing the 2-2 bracket , hope they get BiG @ the 2-1.
its not an easy feat to beat g2 on cache and vp on train. Gambit had widen their map pool compared to last major, nice.
Have been reading that there is going to be CIS shuffle after major, NaVi needs to make an offer to Zeus which he cant refuse because he dont have a reason to leave Gambit atm.
Gratz to Gambit , that B side defense was straight up BAD, its rare not getting 1-2 picks as CT in B train .... Gambit out gunned them and won all the duels , impressive game by them
Nex has been a huge xfactor, he was the supposed to be the star that faded but hes really revived with Gob B. Tabsen on his own would hav left this a pretty mediocre team.
Don't wanna start drama () but wasn't there a gentlemen's agreement on not using the bug? Apparently some players don't care ^^ That's the problem with this agreement, it's obviously not binding and thus basically useless
On July 19 2017 05:59 The_Red_Viper wrote: Don't wanna start drama () but wasn't there a gentlemen's agreement on not using the bug? Apparently some players don't care ^^ That's the problem with this agreement, it's obviously not binding and thus basically useless
On July 19 2017 05:59 The_Red_Viper wrote: Don't wanna start drama () but wasn't there a gentlemen's agreement on not using the bug? Apparently some players don't care ^^ That's the problem with this agreement, it's obviously not binding and thus basically useless
Who is using it?
Pretty sure Legija used it in banana for example, In general i think it should be ok to use it when there are no official rules which forbid it, but after all this drama and then the 16 team gentlemen's agreement it seems kinda shitty
On July 19 2017 05:59 The_Red_Viper wrote: Don't wanna start drama () but wasn't there a gentlemen's agreement on not using the bug? Apparently some players don't care ^^ That's the problem with this agreement, it's obviously not binding and thus basically useless
Who is using it?
Pretty sure Legija used it in banana for example, In general i think it should be ok to use it when there are no official rules which forbid it, but after all this drama and then the 16 team gentlemen's agreement it seems kinda shitty
Allright i saw the clip. I think it just came from the backbone, and wasn't really done with ill mind tbh.
On July 19 2017 06:03 Epoxide wrote: why does nex peek there when they have a four man stack with crossfires?
Gob flashed it for him. Sadly it didnt flash anything.
Seems like a pretty unnecessary thing to do
I didn't see the situation entirely but to me it looked like they had gob in pit and nex on site and then library dude smoked off (im not 100% sure about it) so i can understand why
On July 19 2017 06:03 Epoxide wrote: why does nex peek there when they have a four man stack with crossfires?
Gob flashed it for him. Sadly it didnt flash anything.
Seems like a pretty unnecessary thing to do
I didn't see the situation entirely but to me it looked like they had gob in pit and nex on site and then library dude smoked off (im not 100% sure about it) so i can understand why
They had keev on site with an awp and the library guy came small pit
On July 19 2017 05:59 The_Red_Viper wrote: Don't wanna start drama () but wasn't there a gentlemen's agreement on not using the bug? Apparently some players don't care ^^ That's the problem with this agreement, it's obviously not binding and thus basically useless
Who is using it?
Pretty sure Legija used it in banana for example, In general i think it should be ok to use it when there are no official rules which forbid it, but after all this drama and then the 16 team gentlemen's agreement it seems kinda shitty
Well why wouldn't BIG use it? They weren't even invited to the meeting were they agreed to not use the bug. Valve doesn't care about the bug. PGL didn't care about it and then gave the green light to use it. And a lot of BIG CT strats are currently based on it.
On July 19 2017 05:59 The_Red_Viper wrote: Don't wanna start drama () but wasn't there a gentlemen's agreement on not using the bug? Apparently some players don't care ^^ That's the problem with this agreement, it's obviously not binding and thus basically useless
Who is using it?
Pretty sure Legija used it in banana for example, In general i think it should be ok to use it when there are no official rules which forbid it, but after all this drama and then the 16 team gentlemen's agreement it seems kinda shitty
Well why wouldn't BIG use it? They weren't even invited to the meeting were they agreed to not use the bug. Valve doesn't care about the bug. PGL didn't care about it and then gave the green light to use it. And a lot of BIG CT strats are currently based on it.
My understanding is that there was/is a gentlemen's agreement where everyone of the 16 teams said they won't use it. (that was after the stuff you mentioned). Look in general i am fine with using it if it isn't forbidden (though i think it probably shouldn't be allowed, it seems broken), but after all this drama and the new agreement it just seems shitty to still use it. Ofc it's not 100% binding, but yeah not a fan of the decision here. But sure, let's give him the benefit of the doubt that it was simply muscle memory i guess.
With that being said, sick game. Pretty close and props to BIG here. Still want SK to win though :D
On July 19 2017 06:28 geokilla wrote: How did BIG pull that off?!
they have been putting insane hours since creating the team. every player took their game to next level in last six months. gob b has also learned CSGO inside and out. you can see it in his calls compared to his times in NRG.
On July 19 2017 06:28 Pontual wrote: Wow Inferno T for SK is awful, while Big defense was perfect. gege
Inferno T needs very heavy reads to play well. Gob B setups owned the fuck out of them every time. And this is especially impressive because reading and adjusting ingame is what SK is good at but the reads and the setups were always favourable to Big.
And the pit players were kinda absurd, mostly because they were holding utility alot because SK plays slow and then catching them during the execute. But still even though they got caught with a rush once or twice they didnt panic and stuck to the game plan. If the pit player has counter utility hes golden.
Considering this same team took Astralis 13-2 on T, it was pretty heavy anti stratting coming in. Certainly a monster achievement but the real test would be to maintain this level once teams have had a look at you.
Also .. jump bug ? What jump bug? Tabsen dont need your jump bug.
Mouz-C9: Be ready for the heart attack plays and slip ups by both teams. (Mouz fucks up in Overtime or 14-16) Penta-F3: Poor Luolis, 2 Fins against 1 Fin (F3 got this) NaVi-Fnatic: Please die NaVi, I dont want to see that Lineup anymore (Fnatic better do this)
G2-Astralis: G2 to make the Astralis 2-3 dream a bit closer North-VP: Please VP, the crowed needs its champion SK-Immo: SK should do this.
VP best chance is now , JUST FUCKING DO IT VP , it will be a sad SAD major without them going on stage at least once getting all the home fans go crazy.
Did the rules change? Commentators just said that mousesports would have to go through all the minors again. So far the bottom 8 from the major were directly seeded for the Major Qualifier, did they change that?
On July 19 2017 18:02 phagga wrote: Did the rules change? Commentators just said that mousesports would have to go through all the minors again. So far the bottom 8 from the major were directly seeded for the Major Qualifier, did they change that?
I think most likely probability is that they accidentally said that or just in general dont understand the format.
Markeloff basically lost F3 the pistol by peeking from upper for no reason after they were in 5v3. He couldve just waited and no way Penta wins that round.
On July 19 2017 21:35 Bisu-Fan wrote: Ughhh navis t side is so weak its unbelievable
seized is a pretty awful igl tbh
not his fault tho, he was never asked to be put in this position, but i think a shuffle is coming, headless cs has been out of the norm for way too long.
Honestly, out of the possibilities, i would take blad3 and replace it with edward or... starix if he wants to play and is good enough lol
On July 19 2017 21:33 BrownBear wrote: It's just so hard to knock Fnatic out of a major. They're still able to revert to championship form when they absolutely need to.
This was hardly championship form, they actually played much better vs Astralis. This game was pubby AF..
Most of it was just Edward and Siezed losing duel after duel after duel in favorable and to be fair unfavorable spots (and this is despite both of them actually having ok KDR's). Guardian also fell away, it was certainly high level clutching from Fnatic but better teams with individuals on point wont (and dont let that happen).
Seized is not cut out for IGL. He is pretty decent fragger but hes dropped hard since he started IGLING. Edward is to inconsistent.
On July 19 2017 22:06 Ragnarork wrote: This interview was so troubling watching right after Na'Vi's elimination. :D
They were like.. shit these idiots went and got knocked out. Better play it now.
Although it wouldnt have killed them to run it just before the game.
It obviously didn't matter a lot in this instance, but damn pro teams are really good at smoking a certain area and still showing yourself before it is actually up. Really frustrates me every time to see that
On July 20 2017 00:58 bluzi wrote: I cant stand watching this Neo gets the kill 4v5 , then goes alone and peaks and dies , JUST EXECUTE ON THE SITE
To be fair that was a very gambli play from Konfig not a bad play from Neo, although I guess you could argue Neo shouldve had someone come up underpass before that peek.
VP arent playing all that horribly North is playing really well imo
On July 20 2017 00:58 bluzi wrote: I cant stand watching this Neo gets the kill 4v5 , then goes alone and peaks and dies , JUST EXECUTE ON THE SITE
To be fair that was a very gambli play from Konfig not a bad play from Neo, although I guess you could argue Neo shouldve had someone come up underpass before that peek.
VP arent playing all that horribly North is playing really well imo
Not checking shadow ? wtf is Taz doing as the entry frager there ....
On July 20 2017 00:58 bluzi wrote: I cant stand watching this Neo gets the kill 4v5 , then goes alone and peaks and dies , JUST EXECUTE ON THE SITE
To be fair that was a very gambli play from Konfig not a bad play from Neo, although I guess you could argue Neo shouldve had someone come up underpass before that peek.
VP arent playing all that horribly North is playing really well imo
Not checking shadow ? wtf is Taz doing as the entry frager there ....
Most of the spots they arent checking is because of baits or other ques the defense is setting up to draw attention. Its not because he is just a dumbass who doesnt know there can't be a person shadow.
On July 20 2017 00:58 bluzi wrote: I cant stand watching this Neo gets the kill 4v5 , then goes alone and peaks and dies , JUST EXECUTE ON THE SITE
To be fair that was a very gambli play from Konfig not a bad play from Neo, although I guess you could argue Neo shouldve had someone come up underpass before that peek.
VP arent playing all that horribly North is playing really well imo
Not checking shadow ? wtf is Taz doing as the entry frager there ....
Most of the spots they arent checking is because of baits or other ques the defense is setting up to draw attention. Its not because he is just a dumbass who doesnt know there can't be a person shadow.
On July 20 2017 00:58 bluzi wrote: I cant stand watching this Neo gets the kill 4v5 , then goes alone and peaks and dies , JUST EXECUTE ON THE SITE
To be fair that was a very gambli play from Konfig not a bad play from Neo, although I guess you could argue Neo shouldve had someone come up underpass before that peek.
VP arent playing all that horribly North is playing really well imo
Not checking shadow ? wtf is Taz doing as the entry frager there ....
Most of the spots they arent checking is because of baits or other ques the defense is setting up to draw attention. Its not because he is just a dumbass who doesnt know there can't be a person shadow.
I think 100% Byali seen him dropping down .....
Well they have brought it back to a reset round with a low utility buy on the defense. If they win it they should go ahead on the eco after. Pretty close game considering how aweful they are supposedly playing.
I have a feeling that the names Titan and G2 are just cursed when it comes to the baguettes. Change org name or you never get out of grps in major. trolololol
The last fnatic game and this one have been so 2015 CS GO its hilarious.
At least BIG got a nice matchup. At first legends spot was enough but i started to believe in their chances at this tournament. Hopefully they are as good as on inferno on other maps.
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
The group stage is seeding aswell.
The 3-0 teams were always going to be drawn against the 3-2's first and then theres a guarantee that two 2 3-1 teams play each other. It couldve been SK North or SK Astralis either way 5 Danes get sad on Sat xD
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
The group stage is seeding.
The 3-0 teams were always going to be drawn against the 3-2's first and then theres a guarantee that two 2 3-1 teams play each other. It couldve been SK North or SK Astralis either way 5 Danes get sad on Sat xD
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
The group stage is seeding.
The 3-0 teams were always going to be drawn against the 3-2's first and then theres a guarantee that two 2 3-1 teams play each other. It couldve been SK North or SK Astralis either way 5 Danes get sad on Sat xD
and did they seed the group stage? No.
They played legends vs challengers first round ? Kinda hard to seed when there is no real official ranking system. No, HLTV.org doesn count.
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
Not the tournament organizers fault that SK lost to BIG
On July 20 2017 07:37 Rebs wrote:
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
The group stage is seeding.
The 3-0 teams were always going to be drawn against the 3-2's first and then theres a guarantee that two 2 3-1 teams play each other. It couldve been SK North or SK Astralis either way 5 Danes get sad on Sat xD
and did they seed the group stage? No.
They played legends vs challengers first round ?
Yeah from a half year old result and only for the first round
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
The group stage is seeding.
The 3-0 teams were always going to be drawn against the 3-2's first and then theres a guarantee that two 2 3-1 teams play each other. It couldve been SK North or SK Astralis either way 5 Danes get sad on Sat xD
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
Not the tournament organizers fault that SK lost to BIG
On July 20 2017 07:37 Rebs wrote:
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
The group stage is seeding.
The 3-0 teams were always going to be drawn against the 3-2's first and then theres a guarantee that two 2 3-1 teams play each other. It couldve been SK North or SK Astralis either way 5 Danes get sad on Sat xD
and did they seed the group stage? No.
They played legends vs challengers first round ?
Yeah from a half year old result and only for the first round
Not all teams get to play all tournaments for various reasons (like Gambit) so saying "fuck those irrelevant results" lets go on current form based on tournaments that not all teams get to play and that we dont have an official consensus based ranking system assigned for. (again HLTV.org doesnt count)
If you can think of a fairer way to start the rounds feel free to suggest it. As for the second and succeeding rounds. Doesnt matter how much or how "well" they wouldve seeded it. If favourites or legends teams lose you will get stacked games in the proceeding rounds. And the rounds will get progressively more stacked as they go on. Thats ofcourse a given.
Forcing matches based on some arbitrary idea of seeding in a swiss system just means you are fixing them which is frankly just wrong.
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
Not the tournament organizers fault that SK lost to BIG
On July 20 2017 07:37 Rebs wrote:
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
The group stage is seeding.
The 3-0 teams were always going to be drawn against the 3-2's first and then theres a guarantee that two 2 3-1 teams play each other. It couldve been SK North or SK Astralis either way 5 Danes get sad on Sat xD
and did they seed the group stage? No.
So SK lost to BIG because of group stage seeding?
I heard Faze went 0-3 because of bad group stage seeding also.
edit: I mentioned something about perks but thats silly now that i think about it. THe perk is you get autoqualified. Thats good enough
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
Not the tournament organizers fault that SK lost to BIG
On July 20 2017 07:37 Rebs wrote:
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
The group stage is seeding.
The 3-0 teams were always going to be drawn against the 3-2's first and then theres a guarantee that two 2 3-1 teams play each other. It couldve been SK North or SK Astralis either way 5 Danes get sad on Sat xD
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
Not the tournament organizers fault that SK lost to BIG
On July 20 2017 07:37 Rebs wrote:
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
The group stage is seeding.
The 3-0 teams were always going to be drawn against the 3-2's first and then theres a guarantee that two 2 3-1 teams play each other. It couldve been SK North or SK Astralis either way 5 Danes get sad on Sat xD
and did they seed the group stage? No.
They played legends vs challengers first round ?
Yeah from a half year old result and only for the first round
Not all teams get to play all tournaments for various reasons (like Gambit) so saying "fuck those irrelevant results" lets go on current form based on tournaments that not all teams get to play and that we dont have an official consensus based ranking system assigned for. (again HLTV.org doesnt count)
If you can think of a fairer way to start the rounds feel free to suggest it. As for the second and succeeding rounds. Doesnt matter how much or how "well" they wouldve seeded it. If favourites or legends teams lose you will get stacked games in the proceeding rounds. And the rounds will get progressively more stacked as they go on. Thats ofcourse a given.
Forcing matches based on some arbitrary idea of seeding in a swiss system just means you are fixing them which is frankly just wrong.
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
Not the tournament organizers fault that SK lost to BIG
On July 20 2017 07:37 Rebs wrote:
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
The group stage is seeding.
The 3-0 teams were always going to be drawn against the 3-2's first and then theres a guarantee that two 2 3-1 teams play each other. It couldve been SK North or SK Astralis either way 5 Danes get sad on Sat xD
and did they seed the group stage? No.
So SK lost to BIG because of group stage seeding?
I heard Faze went 0-3 because of bad group stage seeding also.
edit: I mentioned something about perks but thats silly now that i think about it. THe perk is you get autoqualified. Thats good enough
Round 2: SK vs Astralis, both are legend teams. BIG vs C9, both are challenger teams. You can still use that dumb seeding for future rounds.
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
Not the tournament organizers fault that SK lost to BIG
On July 20 2017 07:37 Rebs wrote:
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
The group stage is seeding.
The 3-0 teams were always going to be drawn against the 3-2's first and then theres a guarantee that two 2 3-1 teams play each other. It couldve been SK North or SK Astralis either way 5 Danes get sad on Sat xD
and did they seed the group stage? No.
They played legends vs challengers first round ?
Yeah from a half year old result and only for the first round
Not all teams get to play all tournaments for various reasons (like Gambit) so saying "fuck those irrelevant results" lets go on current form based on tournaments that not all teams get to play and that we dont have an official consensus based ranking system assigned for. (again HLTV.org doesnt count)
If you can think of a fairer way to start the rounds feel free to suggest it. As for the second and succeeding rounds. Doesnt matter how much or how "well" they wouldve seeded it. If favourites or legends teams lose you will get stacked games in the proceeding rounds. And the rounds will get progressively more stacked as they go on. Thats ofcourse a given.
Forcing matches based on some arbitrary idea of seeding in a swiss system just means you are fixing them which is frankly just wrong.
On July 20 2017 07:43 Luolis wrote:
On July 20 2017 07:39 Epoxide wrote:
On July 20 2017 07:36 Luolis wrote:
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
Not the tournament organizers fault that SK lost to BIG
On July 20 2017 07:37 Rebs wrote:
On July 20 2017 07:35 Epoxide wrote: why bother seeding a tournament xdddddddddddddddddd
The group stage is seeding.
The 3-0 teams were always going to be drawn against the 3-2's first and then theres a guarantee that two 2 3-1 teams play each other. It couldve been SK North or SK Astralis either way 5 Danes get sad on Sat xD
and did they seed the group stage? No.
So SK lost to BIG because of group stage seeding?
I heard Faze went 0-3 because of bad group stage seeding also.
edit: I mentioned something about perks but thats silly now that i think about it. THe perk is you get autoqualified. Thats good enough
Round 2: SK vs Astralis, both are legend teams. BIG vs C9, both are challenger teams. You can still use that dumb seeding for future rounds.
yeah and both beat legends teams. If the legends teams would have won them you would still get a stacked round 2. North vs Faze.. orrrr a SK vs North, or a Faze vs Astralis.
Manipulating the seeding because favorites lost is not only dumb. Its fundamentally wrong & unfair. My reward for beating a legends team is... Yep another legends team. Thanks menggggggg
On July 20 2017 08:03 Luolis wrote: Something something GSL format
That has its own issues. That will leave people complaining for ages on end.
Bottom line is this system tests your skills against a range of styles and opponents so the most complete teams atleast in theory should go through on average.
There shouldnt be any "easy" games. In reality there can be but maybe with the exception of Vega (and lol Faze), no team was consistently out of their depth.
On July 20 2017 07:50 Mensol wrote: BIG vs VP in semis and BIG vs astralis in finals is needed for csgasm.
BIG vs SK or BIG vs Gambit ty. No astralis in my finals thanks)
I think Gambits going to lose against fnatic. Zeus has never beat this fnatic in bo3 afaik. fnatic is looking average at best but its going to be their second semis at major this year. perhaps they are looking average to me because i dont like the way they play... i just find them boring since they are not a very tactical team like astralis/SK/BIG/Gambit.
In some ways its nice that these teams will make deep runs in big tournaments because they get big match experience and develop some character. The stakes are totally different and its a really good test for the teams that havent been there and done that. It also shows you which players are ready now based on how they perform in the games.
Like for example a guy like Adren I have no doubt he has big match temperament. But Tabsen ? Hes great but now he can really prove himself at the biggest stage.
There will never be an optimal format which is time constraint as Rebs pointed out in several of his posts , If you believe that it matters that much if SK vs Astralis is a QF or a Semi then its up to you , but i think in the grand scheme of things those 2 would bound to meet (if they are truly the 2 best) and only one would've gone further , so them doing it at the QF instead of a Semi is not a big deal , what matters that the best teams got their legends status , only Faze which are on paper a very strong team couldn't do it and they have no one to blame , they lost 0-3 for crying out loud. I actually like the Swiss system the best , the only thing i would change will be a BO3 on the 2-2 matches , i.e elimination , that will make the format optimal in my mind for a time constrained tourney.
FYI from the legends 6 teams retained and only 2 got replaced - Navi & Faze out and IMT & BiG are in. Which means the format works quite well in regards to "best teams advance" if you think that legends is indeed that important (as a lot of ppl here were trying to say) and you want to bias the draw towards them then you need to rethink as the format as it is still favors the legends. Previous major 6 legends retained and 2 got replaced - Liquid and F3 out and North & Faze in. tldr - the swiss format does his job in retaining the legends and creeping up the best teams from the challengers.
Legend spot and ranking is good, but there is only 2 of these a year with a few other tournaments competing with these in terms of prize pools so it shouldn't be the only design for the tournament to get legend status. Should be to find the best team, having arguably the best two teams in the RO8 (current Major champions and IEM World Champions vs the team in the best form who have won the last 3 lan's they have attended) seems abit wrong no matter how they fared in the BO1!!!!! group stage system. Give me GSL Group stage which is bo1 until losers and winners matches when its bo3. That the only way this system is fair if you can't have a full bo3 all the time, which i can understand why you can't or in CSGO it would literally take 3 weeks to do a 16 team lan event lol
On July 20 2017 18:08 bluzi wrote: FYI from the legends 6 teams retained and only 2 got replaced - Navi & Faze out and IMT & BiG are in. Which means the format works quite well in regards to "best teams advance" if you think that legends is indeed that important (as a lot of ppl here were trying to say) and you want to bias the draw towards them then you need to rethink as the format as it is still favors the legends. Previous major 6 legends retained and 2 got replaced - Liquid and F3 out and North & Faze in. tldr - the swiss format does his job in retaining the legends and creeping up the best teams from the challengers.
Retaining the legends shouldn't be a "goal". I want the best teams to win and advance, not the former legends. Even more so considering the fact that there's six months between majors now, and that legend status is basically useless as an indicator of how good a team is.
Let's take BIG for example. Yes, they had an incredible run so far. But they've only proven that they're good on inferno. In any Bo3 I'd still favor Cloud9 over BIG to beat nearly any opponent right now.
I agree with Pande, GSL would be better with Bo3 matches as soon as there's either a spot in the playoffs or elimination, at stake.
On July 20 2017 18:08 bluzi wrote: FYI from the legends 6 teams retained and only 2 got replaced - Navi & Faze out and IMT & BiG are in. Which means the format works quite well in regards to "best teams advance" if you think that legends is indeed that important (as a lot of ppl here were trying to say) and you want to bias the draw towards them then you need to rethink as the format as it is still favors the legends. Previous major 6 legends retained and 2 got replaced - Liquid and F3 out and North & Faze in. tldr - the swiss format does his job in retaining the legends and creeping up the best teams from the challengers.
Retaining the legends shouldn't be a "goal". I want the best teams to win and advance, not the former legends. Even more so considering the fact that there's six months between majors now, and that legend status is basically useless as an indicator of how good a team is.
Let's take BIG for example. Yes, they had an incredible run so far. But they've only proven that they're good on inferno. In any Bo3 I'd still favor Cloud9 over BIG to beat nearly any opponent right now.
I agree with Pande, GSL would be better with Bo3 matches as soon as there's either a spot in the playoffs or elimination, at stake.
How would you decide the GSL groups ? if you go by the legends status which you seem to believe is wrong then there isn't any good way to seed them , unless you want to give up on the legends idea which will lead to the chaos that we have in Dota2 regarding invites and what not , i like it when its CLEAR who gets invited and who isn't. As i said , for me the elimination is the only BO3 , because the 2-1 and 2-0 teams also playing BO3 is crazy long (for playoffs as you suggested).
I mentioned the legends retention because some poster above me suggested that its not fair for the legends to play each other while the challangers play each other in the swiss format (and also in the playoffs) , so i replied in saying that if it was "unfair" then more legends would be replaced by the challengers and its clearly not the case. And having a dark horse happens (BiG) , other teams could've banned inferno if they felt its their only map. I agree that i want the best teams to advance , its everyone goals but you need to take into account timelines , and for me the current format works really well , it can be better with eliminations being Bo3 but i can see that prolonging the tourney to be a long one.
What teams do you feel is underserving and which is deserving in the current lineup ? how many "misses" this format had in this Major ?
My Groups would have been 2x Legend 2x Challenger x 4 groups so like;
Astralis North Big Mouz VP Faze G2 Immortals Fnatic Gambit Vega Penta SK Navi F3 C9
Something like that, you get 1 stupidly tough group i guess like the SK group there but if its BO1 first match, then bo3 winners losers final match you get to play all groups game 1 and winners matches day 1 of lan. Then day 2 all losers matches bo3. Then day 3 all Final matches. Which still only works as playing 4x bo3 a day after the hectic first day!
In your last question for me BIG would not got top seed not saying wouldn't have gotten out but wouldn't have taken top seed for sure in a GSL system probably. Faze i doubt would have went out in a b3 losers / final match. The seeding i used for groups was based on top 4 get 1 group each from last major, then the other 4 get put in after it randomly.
On July 20 2017 19:51 Pandemona wrote: My Groups would have been 2x Legend 2x Challenger x 4 groups so like;
Astralis North Big Mouz VP Faze G2 Immortals Fnatic Gambit Vega Penta SK Navi F3 C9
Something like that, you get 1 stupidly tough group i guess like the SK group there but if its BO1 first match, then bo3 winners losers final match you get to play all groups game 1 and winners matches day 1 of lan. Then day 2 all losers matches bo3. Then day 3 all Final matches. Which still only works as playing 4x bo3 a day after the hectic first day!
In your last question for me BIG would not got top seed not saying wouldn't have gotten out but wouldn't have taken top seed for sure in a GSL system probably. Faze i doubt would have went out in a b3 losers / final match.
As I asked Rag , what injustice happened in this tourney ? which teams were deserving and which weren't to advance?
Injustice might be to strong of wording but it's more that the grand final game of Astralis vs SK who both went 3W 1L in a bo1 format are now facing off in the RO8 where you get BIG vs Immortals and one of them is getting further than Astralis/SK this tournament. The imo the top bracket is way better than the bottom half. Gambit look very very good and solid, then you add SK and Astralis meaning the final could be another one sided affair with a weaker team in it.
Quite easily could have BIG/immortals vs North and winner of that is in the grand finals of a major without having to face a top notch team (if VP turn into what we seen the last 3 months xD)
But again Injustice is a way to strong word for this, just i have always always been a strong advocate of making any sort of BO1 system disappear because you get way to much random results. You follow Dota as well so it would be like TI7 turning into a bo1 swiss style tournament and the top 8 advance to a bo3 single elimination tournament...it doesn't work as you know in that game (as well as every other esport) that winning a bo1 say EG vs Planet Dog (hellraisers now) could quite easily happen and EG one of the most consistent teams this year could go out etc etc. Used to trigger me in Starcraft 2 when tournaments were putting bo1 groups and it doesn't work it is 1 6 pool and your tournament life could be over, it doesn't make the best even/spectacle.
On July 20 2017 19:51 Pandemona wrote: My Groups would have been 2x Legend 2x Challenger x 4 groups so like;
Astralis North Big Mouz VP Faze G2 Immortals Fnatic Gambit Vega Penta SK Navi F3 C9
Something like that, you get 1 stupidly tough group i guess like the SK group there but if its BO1 first match, then bo3 winners losers final match you get to play all groups game 1 and winners matches day 1 of lan. Then day 2 all losers matches bo3. Then day 3 all Final matches. Which still only works as playing 4x bo3 a day after the hectic first day!
In your last question for me BIG would not got top seed not saying wouldn't have gotten out but wouldn't have taken top seed for sure in a GSL system probably. Faze i doubt would have went out in a b3 losers / final match. The seeding i used for groups was based on top 4 get 1 group each from last major, then the other 4 get put in after it randomly.
The main drawback to your suggestion is actually what you are trying to prevent , which is relying on the legend status for ranking as you stated before they are unreliable , this will create cases where the challenger teams which should be ranked very high are all of the sudden the best team in the group and you might have the best 3 teams in one group. Swiss has better spread i feel and as i said before if we do losers Bo3 then its the best format (better then GSL to my opinion). I like that you need to lose to 3 different teams that progressively lost then just 2 (GSL) to be out.
On July 20 2017 20:01 Pandemona wrote: Injustice might be to strong of wording but it's more that the grand final game of Astralis vs SK who both went 3W 1L in a bo1 format are now facing off in the RO8 where you get BIG vs Immortals and one of them is getting further than Astralis/SK this tournament. The imo the top bracket is way better than the bottom half. Gambit look very very good and solid, then you add SK and Astralis meaning the final could be another one sided affair with a weaker team in it.
Quite easily could have BIG/immortals vs North and winner of that is in the grand finals of a major without having to face a top notch team (if VP turn into what we seen the last 3 months xD)
But again Injustice is a way to strong word for this, just i have always always been a strong advocate of making any sort of BO1 system disappear because you get way to much random results. You follow Dota as well so it would be like TI7 turning into a bo1 swiss style tournament and the top 8 advance to a bo3 single elimination tournament...it doesn't work as you know in that game (as well as every other esport) that winning a bo1 say EG vs Planet Dog (hellraisers now) could quite easily happen and EG one of the most consistent teams this year could go out etc etc. Used to trigger me in Starcraft 2 when tournaments were putting bo1 groups and it doesn't work it is 1 6 pool and your tournament life could be over, it doesn't make the best even/spectacle.
As i stated before the QF being the Semi`s is a reasonable complaint but it had some randomness in it , you assume wrongfully that in a GSL format SK will be first and Astralis will be first as well so the current scenario won't happen , you are predicting results that were never played , i will give you a simple example , SK vs BiG first BO1 in the GSL format , BiG wins on inferno (could happen ) then BiG goes to win vs whoever on the other side and SK goes 2nd , we have the same thing no ? The Bo1 in the GSL format will cause the same thing.
Also Dota2 have Bo1 in losers brackets in TI no ? Also TI is vastly longer event , as stated numerous times if you had 1 more week you could've done better to reduce variance, sure.
But if you lose 1xbo3 1xbo1 you have lost 3 maps and your out it the same.
The Legend status groups are fine though as you can't get a fair seeding system to make the groups. The legend system for a bo1 format isn't very fair. In the groups i made just is there any group there where its unbalanced, i don't think so imo anyway.
Looks like it wouldn't be perfect but can you at least see where im coming from with a bo1 system not being the best way to determine who the best teams are and it can be extremely "random" results wise?
Yeah in Dota 2 TI loser bracket used to be BO1 as a punishment for finishing that way in the group play phase
That's what was used before (with the exception of Cologne 2015 which had a wonky format). A group would have a team that made top 4, a team that made top 8, a team that qualified 3-0 (or 2-0 in groups) at the qualifier, and a team that qualified 3-1/3-2 (or 2-1 in groups).
I don't really like it either, but I feel it's less prone to upsets. Ideally I'd like something closer to TI, with round robin that eliminates maybe one or two teams, and seed the rest in a bracket according to their placement. And no bo1. Bo2 or Bo3.
But time & money are always in the way.
I'm not saying upsets are bad, but I'd rather see less of them due to Bo1.
Also, to answer that:
What teams do you feel is underserving and which is deserving in the current lineup ? how many "misses" this format had in this Major ?
I don't think teams are "undeserving" per se. And misses are, ultimately, teams that fuck up somehow. Like technically there should be one legend less here and FaZe in, but somehow they completely flopped.
But still, I also see that BIG qualified on the back of one map and that it wasn't insta-banned against them is normal, as their strength on the map showed progressively through the groups, and eventually against SK.
I also see that IMT qualified by beating Na'Vi, Flipsid3 and Vega, which is certainly not the hardest of runs.
You also have cases like Fnatic and G2, which had a similar run to 2-2, facing both Na'Vi and Astralis. Then I'd rank Gambit + C9 as stronger opponents than F3 + VP. In the end, I think it sucks that a bo1 decided between these two teams who would go to playoffs and who would not.
On July 20 2017 07:50 Mensol wrote: BIG vs VP in semis and BIG vs astralis in finals is needed for csgasm.
BIG vs SK or BIG vs Gambit ty. No astralis in my finals thanks)
I think Gambits going to lose against fnatic. Zeus has never beat this fnatic in bo3 afaik. fnatic is looking average at best but its going to be their second semis at major this year. perhaps they are looking average to me because i dont like the way they play... i just find them boring since they are not a very tactical team like astralis/SK/BIG/Gambit.
I have to always found them boring to watch. Never thought about them being not very tactical. Explains it.
On July 20 2017 07:50 Mensol wrote: BIG vs VP in semis and BIG vs astralis in finals is needed for csgasm.
BIG vs SK or BIG vs Gambit ty. No astralis in my finals thanks)
I think Gambits going to lose against fnatic. Zeus has never beat this fnatic in bo3 afaik. fnatic is looking average at best but its going to be their second semis at major this year. perhaps they are looking average to me because i dont like the way they play... i just find them boring since they are not a very tactical team like astralis/SK/BIG/Gambit.
I think Gambit'll be fine vs Fnatic. They have better structure, better strats and almost as good individuals.
On July 21 2017 23:13 Brett wrote: Lol what a throw from gambit
Fnatic throws it back anyways
meh none of these teams is going to win the major but they're giving each other a good run for the money
True lol
I cant see any reason Gambit cant win it ..
Aside from the obvious issue of pressure. In terms of ability they have shown plenty. Fnatic is not a terrible team, maybe not championship level. Gambit is unbeaten so far. You can only beat what you play.
On July 21 2017 23:13 Brett wrote: Lol what a throw from gambit
Fnatic throws it back anyways
meh none of these teams is going to win the major but they're giving each other a good run for the money
True lol
I cant see any reason Gambit cant win it ..
Aside from the obvious issue of pressure. In terms of ability they have shown plenty. Fnatic is not a terrible team, maybe not championship level. Gambit is unbeaten so far. You can only beat what you play.
I don't think Gambit is on Tier 1 level but then again they're right now working hard at proving me wrong
The only reason i dont see gambit winning the major would be mostly because pressure could get to them (those last shots by mou, if that wasnt the last round of the match he would ahve hit that shot 100%)
They have the skills, they have a great igl, they have a way to play csgo.
On July 21 2017 23:23 Faruko wrote: The only reason i dont see gambit winning the major would be mostly because pressure could get to them (those last shots by mou, if that wasnt the last round of the match he would ahve hit that shot 100%)
They have the skills, they have a great igl, they have a way to play csgo.
Those whiffs by Mou were legit pressure. You could see he was struggling so hard. But the rest of the squad have been absolutely nerveless.
Does Dosia look like someone who takes pressure !?? I DONT THINK SO !
Mid round clutching vs Fnatic (who did a terrible job, didnt feel like phalanx fnatic at all) over and over. Maybe Fnatic was being bad but the confidence from winning them in high stakes games will go a long way.
Fnatic may have done them a favor raising their confidence individually.
On July 22 2017 00:56 Rebs wrote: Fallen is whiffing alot. He cant do that and get away with it on cache, once there is a hole in the defense everyone else will just get smothered.
Yeah especially as he and Taco both were on A with awps and both whiffed all shots.
Regarding the gamble thing, yeah i understand its because of pressure, just weird that possibly the worlds best team goes for that kind of a yolo gamble even pressured.
Honestly SK was not looking like they should at all in that game. Losing so many aimduels they shouldn't, their CT-defaults especially just looking kind of bad. Hopefully they have something better for the 2 other maps because this looked bad.
On July 22 2017 01:21 Luolis wrote: Honestly SK was not looking like they should at all in that game. Losing so many aimduels they shouldn't, their CT-defaults especially just looking kind of bad. Hopefully they have something better for the 2 other maps because this looked bad.
Yeah there were Fnaticing themsevles to stay in that game. Didnt look like a good game from them at all.
On July 22 2017 02:07 Luolis wrote: On another hand people who say that this game is the real final and the winner of this game will win the major really annoy me.
yeah, im not big on either sk or astralis. hoping vp/gambit, maybe big, can save it
On July 22 2017 02:20 dmnum wrote: astralis actually broke sk
Yep have to agree.
Takes alot to do that but everything about there play was far superior, mostly the composure. The preparation was also completely on point starting from the Veto's to the actual maps. To each players individual roles . Xyp lurks, Device picks. Everything was like they knew what to look for and when.
Sk havent been dominated like this in the past few tournaments. Its hard to comeback from it sometimes.
SK going to have a break after this for sure. Poor guys, played so well over 3 months to run into Astralis who been just sat practising at home studying for 3 months lol
Can't say its preparation, they have been grinding lans for months, where as Astralis literally sat at home watching this happen and planning basically. Also it was an off day for SK. On Cache it was very clear, on Overpass it was more being out manoeuvred.
Get spammed through walls and tapped through smokes in slightly random positions, have timings go against you like that... nobody is staying composed in that scenario lol
He fired 3 rounds into that board....... SK weren't at all at there best after like round 8 on Overpass but on Cache they were just getting a bit unlucky. Like the casters were even saying, some of the 1v1 duels or just straight up positional play was favorable you might seem. Device always in position to take out Fallen was 80% him reading up on where Fallen goes and then guessing well, but also the one evident where he had a better spawn for that pick was also evident.
On July 22 2017 03:18 Pandemona wrote: Not banning inferno vs BIG has to be stupid unless you think they are not that good on it...but even so, just ban it make them play something else.
I guess they really dont want to play nuke? Though if i recall correctly BIG autobans nuke anyway so i dunno :D
Yeah i mean nuke when non danish players involved is a good watch no? i would have liked to have seen that at least, but yeah guess they are not confident on it. immortals that is.
Legija, Gob b and Tabsen all use a wireless mouse. Wireless mouse > wired mouse anyway because its more comfortable to move around. Wireless master race )))
On July 22 2017 03:33 Luolis wrote: Legija, Gob b and Tabsen all use a wireless mouse. Wireless mouse > wired mouse anyway because its more comfortable to move around. Wireless master race )))
If the wire tug is really that big an issue you can always just use a cord holder. Judging hard.
On July 22 2017 03:33 Luolis wrote: Legija, Gob b and Tabsen all use a wireless mouse. Wireless mouse > wired mouse anyway because its more comfortable to move around. Wireless master race )))
If the wire tug is really that big an issue you can always just use a cord holder. Judging hard.
Cord holder hasn't helped me aswell. I've suffered with that problem for like many years, i'll gladly buy a wireless next when i have money :D
On July 22 2017 03:33 Luolis wrote: Legija, Gob b and Tabsen all use a wireless mouse. Wireless mouse > wired mouse anyway because its more comfortable to move around. Wireless master race )))
If the wire tug is really that big an issue you can always just use a cord holder. Judging hard.
Cord holder hasn't helped me aswell. I've suffered with that problem for like many years, i'll gladly buy a wireless next when i have money :D
My next sigbet with you is definitively going to have something to do with this !
On July 22 2017 03:33 Luolis wrote: Legija, Gob b and Tabsen all use a wireless mouse. Wireless mouse > wired mouse anyway because its more comfortable to move around. Wireless master race )))
If the wire tug is really that big an issue you can always just use a cord holder. Judging hard.
Cord holder hasn't helped me aswell. I've suffered with that problem for like many years, i'll gladly buy a wireless next when i have money :D
My next sigbet with you is definitively going to have something to do with this !
edit* Btw taunting is not lame, its part of LAN culture which is basically the origin of eSports. They have booths atleast. PCs back to back and trashtalking face to face.
Trash talk is awesome, even if it is only for the chance of the bully getting beaten. And its way better then all that cringeworthy post/pre/inbetween games stuff that get run.
I would also like to have the crappy table+chair lans back. Nothong beats a singing and taunting TaZ that rubs it into the face of his opponents.
BIG go 3-0 in a bo1 format and lose the first bo3 they have hmm Oh well at least it was a stupidly entertaining game but still, i think they have used there "one time" with that major performance
Magisk had a good game, but konf1g man... disappointing performance
Im not sure if Aizy isnt the star he was in Faze but honestly, i would give him more room to do stuff, he has shown the skills to carry games and be that star player.
Yeah, aizy is still either on or off. If they could find a way to have him be comfortable all the time and able to go off (and if k0nfig plays his game), North could become a scary team again.
But right now, I don't get how they can be this bad. They've got everything they need on paper. Great players, a great IGL, a decent coach, a great structure behind them.
And then you see them in situations where you even wonder if they communicate...
VP now... I'm yet again impressed, because they closed such a big gap in terms of performance, I honestly didn't think it'd be possible this time.
On July 23 2017 00:11 Mensol wrote: astralis rotations giving me chills. gla1ve is a mastermind.
Ehh not really, its relies entirely on the players they put on the extremities to sell the presence so teams never know. It also helps when they keep getting kills on their own.
If Xyp dies or gets pinched they can rotate where ever they wont it doesnt matter.
Edit: see round 14, this time the player on the other split got picked and the "rotation got dumpstered."
edit: round 30. Dupreeh literally sells an entire push by himself with set smokes.
Gambit are way in favor here though, that CT side was more than enough to take it to them as T. Going to go to the wire this map and i think they will step up and take it 16-14 or something
On July 23 2017 00:27 Pandemona wrote: Gambit are way in favor here though, that CT side was more than enough to take it to them as T. Going to go to the wire this map and i think they will step up and take it 16-14 or something
Thanks braah, Englishman with their shitty predictions cursing the X God...
If you make Plays without taking top Banna control and keeping players tied there teams will just over rotate you to death.
Not a very good T side. The tactics are too basic the last 4-5 rounds. They are just hoping basic set smoke takes are going to win them the round. Astralis having none of it.
lol Zeus take bomb Arch after your guy clears out site by himself.
On July 23 2017 01:59 Muffloe wrote: zeus is a hero
Somewhere NaVi's managers are crying themselves to sleep watching Zeus be amazing
Hehe.. will be interesting to see what happens after the major, the zeus-stock is at an alltime high :-P
my guess is Gambit won't be affected by reshuffle even if they lose finals no reason for them i'd say
yeah, i agree. no doubt na'vi will do all they can tho
basicly trading Guardian with Angel solves NaVi's IGL/structure problem seized may return to his previous role and Guardian plays with his friend Styko
On July 23 2017 02:21 Mensol wrote: At this point ESforce is going to give Zeus a blank cheque and tell him the get any player he want in CIS.
kinda like how na'vi was first formed(iirc) :-P
yeah it was Kazakh millionaire Arbalet who gave blank cheque to starix and tell him to create CIS all-star team.
it was Marat Gumashvich, his kids had a big interest in cs 1.6 back in days, so he got involved eventually, and tbh did a great job in making dozen of tourneys with good prizemoney, as well as becoming a key factor in forming such popular brand as Na'Vi
On July 23 2017 01:59 Muffloe wrote: zeus is a hero
Somewhere NaVi's managers are crying themselves to sleep watching Zeus be amazing
Hehe.. will be interesting to see what happens after the major, the zeus-stock is at an alltime high :-P
my guess is Gambit won't be affected by reshuffle even if they lose finals no reason for them i'd say
yeah, i agree. no doubt na'vi will do all they can tho
basicly trading Guardian with Angel solves NaVi's IGL/structure problem seized may return to his previous role and Guardian plays with his friend Styko
ange1 is not leaving HR. He have the shares of team.
each HR player has signed two years contract at start of the year. They see it as a long-term project.
On July 23 2017 01:59 Muffloe wrote: zeus is a hero
Somewhere NaVi's managers are crying themselves to sleep watching Zeus be amazing
Hehe.. will be interesting to see what happens after the major, the zeus-stock is at an alltime high :-P
my guess is Gambit won't be affected by reshuffle even if they lose finals no reason for them i'd say
yeah, i agree. no doubt na'vi will do all they can tho
basicly trading Guardian with Angel solves NaVi's IGL/structure problem seized may return to his previous role and Guardian plays with his friend Styko
ange1 is not leaving HR. He have the shares of team.
each HR player has signed two years contract at start of the year. They see it as a long-term project.
well signing a contract does not guarantee a player stays no mattar what Na'Vi definitly got some money for paying full clausula if they want, and it seems HR made one step behind recently in terms of consistency
VP are getting ROLLED , IMT are no pushovers on inferno , they are going to lock it down on CT side , not feeling the VP T side on inferno at all. I hope VP can still pull through that way i dont care who wins the Final (wanted VP , but gambit are great).
Worst round i ever seen a pro team playing vs a partial buy , just DUMB , going 1 by 1 close quarters AWP without backup to refrag ...... VP deserve to lose this AQWRASFASDFASDFASDFA
Happy for both teams that are in the finals. Both played with their hearts out to get there.
Special mention to kNg especially, who posted extremely good performances, while a few months ago, he was fucking 9-16th at the copenhagen games qualifier... This guy is super promising.
They are by far the favorites i feel, VP don't forget aren't that good. Yes they were in the semi finals but they were awful leading up to this tournament and never really set it alight either. Gambit have beaten bigger and better teams than immortals this tournament. Immortals similarly eventually got over the line vs BIG who gave them a better fight than VP
However with the way this tournament is going, the only winner will be the bookmakers and valve not having to give out gold/silver coins xD
I feel like Immortals have really bad crosshair discipline? Idk what else to call it. They just swing all over the place and do things like peek while reloading that I have to imagine will give Gambit the edge as things go on
So idk what you guys think, but it seems to me like that was some really sloppy play from both sides. Felt like Immortals were always in bad positions and just won rounds because they hit crazy shots from time to time or Gambit players were slow on the draw.
On July 24 2017 02:09 RuiBarbO wrote: So idk what you guys think, but it seems to me like that was some really sloppy play from both sides. Felt like Immortals were always in bad positions and just won rounds because they hit crazy shots from time to time or Gambit players were slow on the draw.
On July 24 2017 02:09 RuiBarbO wrote: So idk what you guys think, but it seems to me like that was some really sloppy play from both sides. Felt like Immortals were always in bad positions and just won rounds because they hit crazy shots from time to time or Gambit players were slow on the draw.
I think its a mental thing as a spectator , when someones sees the highest rated team in the world play then every round they win is OMG and every clutch is crazy , some of the plays IMT did for example were indeed crazy individual skills which you need in the T1 of comp , when Cold does it ppl go crazy when KnG does it ppl call it luck , Gambit showed class in that CT side despite X-God playing really shaky defense at B vs a very capable T side team in IMT. We as spec are missing ALOT from the game , when a team rushes in , the counter nades the fakes , the cover to each other , Gambit players are really not slow on the draw , if they were they couldnt beat a team like Ast. You dont reach the finals while being "always in bad positions" you should give them much more credit , i bet my month salary that if i switched the names of the teams and the players and it was VP vs SK with VP winning the Train with the exact same plays we would be going crazy for this final and the hype would be through the roof , reading few pages in reddit and hltv (dear god is this the worst place on the internet ???) you could clearly see the bias against the "t3 teams in the fina"
I think IMT needs to try and focus on Dosia , he is the weak link (sorry Xgod ) , going through hobbit and adren is hard as it gets , hope they wont and GAMBIT pulls it off!!!
Wife enters the room " Why are you clapping ?!??!?!?!?!?! to yourself ?!?!?!" FUCKING ZEUSSSSSSSSSSSS , BEST MAJOR EVER (VP winning will be better , but this is second best)
On July 24 2017 03:28 Faruko wrote: HOBBIT I LOVE YOU, WHAT A GOD
I think all the ppl who say Navi on suicide watch are crazy , i am 100% sure that ALL the Navi fans wanted Zeus to win and ALL the current Navi lineup wanted Zeus to win and are happy for him.
On July 24 2017 03:29 Kipsate wrote: so happy for Adren too, all those times he was in Hellraisers etc and just didn't give up then got to Gambit and now he is a major winner.
This! Everyone talking about Zeus, but AdreN deserves it just as much.
On July 24 2017 03:28 Faruko wrote: HOBBIT I LOVE YOU, WHAT A GOD
I think all the ppl who say Navi on suicide watch are crazy , i am 100% sure that ALL the Navi fans wanted Zeus to win and ALL the current Navi lineup wanted Zeus to win and are happy for him.
I'm a NaVi fan and couldn't be happier that Zeus won that tournament. Comeback ???
On July 24 2017 03:28 Faruko wrote: HOBBIT I LOVE YOU, WHAT A GOD
I think all the ppl who say Navi on suicide watch are crazy , i am 100% sure that ALL the Navi fans wanted Zeus to win and ALL the current Navi lineup wanted Zeus to win and are happy for him.
Im so happy for Zeus and the boys, hobbit, adren, dosia, mou, all worked their asses off to win this
But zeus man, a new chapter in his legendary carreer
1million viewers watching the final of Gambit vs Immortals haha! RIP Astralis vs SK quarter finals
Henn1 Lucas1 and KNG are extremely talented though, not saying they should do some roster changes but if Boltz and Steel stepped up to there level they would be crazy good in clutches. They showed how good they are with that dominate performance on Cobble one of the hardest maps to master imo.
Gambit probably the most consistent team in the tournament though so credit is due to them.
Happy for Adren, very long path to this trophy, did you guys know his first international experience came from wcg 2005 when his team lost to 3D in the finals
On July 24 2017 03:28 Faruko wrote: HOBBIT I LOVE YOU, WHAT A GOD
I think all the ppl who say Navi on suicide watch are crazy , i am 100% sure that ALL the Navi fans wanted Zeus to win and ALL the current Navi lineup wanted Zeus to win and are happy for him.
These people are the ones that think teams should be able to foresee the future, and that making a CS team is just a puzzle game about fitting differently shaped pieces together.
Fucking amazing by Gambit. Adrens face interview was so close to crying. Feeling happy for all of them and thanks for an amazing final to watch aswell. Hope Immortals also can use this to bounce higher. Ggs, next time maybe its fazes time or smth^^
On July 24 2017 03:44 Faruko wrote: Zeus wasnt working, anyone saying otherwise its dead wrong, of course it wasnt the "brand" but the players navi had
navi just failed to put a igl in the game, as i think a decent IGL (instead of edward) in this line up would win a major no problem
Problem back then was that Starix was igling as a coach so Zeus was just doing basic support player stuff.
On July 24 2017 03:47 Faruko wrote: csgo crowd is just the best there is in esports, its in a whole other league
Agreed , its also the best Esport to watch as a casual and hardcore , tons of action , tons of big plays , great competitive balance as the game is kinda symmetric , its damn intensive as well as the decisions and plays are split seconds and surprising , for instance in Dota (my other esport im following) you have a quiet time at the start and until you start seeing things happen it takes a while , also there are LONG periods of time that nothing really happening in the game. For me CS 1.6 was the best (as i was a kid and also played a ton) and now csgo is back on top of my fav games to watch. I can barely watch a full dota tournament anymore , i skip most games and watch some highlights , but this major i watched a ton (also at work ) and enjoyed it very much , oh and also Zeus is a god.
On July 20 2017 10:20 Sableyeah wrote: Woohoooooo crazy draws! Gambit > fnatic Astralis < SK BIG > Immortals (if tabseN shows form which he will!) North < Virtus Pro
Might aswell have BIG in finals :D Anddduh Gambit wins it if they make finals =>
EZ!!!! FUCK YEAH SO HAPPY FOR ZEUS AND GRATS ADREN!
On July 24 2017 03:39 BeaTeR wrote: Happy for Adren, very long path to this trophy, did you guys know his first international experience came from wcg 2005 when his team lost to 3D in the finals
yeah K23 in shitty ass source. I saw that tournament.
Also Hobbit hugging Dosia is the cutest thing I have ever seen in counterstrike,
On July 24 2017 03:47 Faruko wrote: csgo crowd is just the best there is in esports, its in a whole other league
Agreed , its also the best Esport to watch as a casual and hardcore , tons of action , tons of big plays , great competitive balance as the game is kinda symmetric , its damn intensive as well as the decisions and plays are split seconds and surprising , for instance in Dota (my other esport im following) you have a quiet time at the start and until you start seeing things happen it takes a while , also there are LONG periods of time that nothing really happening in the game. For me CS 1.6 was the best (as i was a kid and also played a ton) and now csgo is back on top of my fav games to watch. I can barely watch a full dota tournament anymore , i skip most games and watch some highlights , but this major i watched a ton (also at work ) and enjoyed it very much , oh and also Zeus is a god.
Yeah, csgo had a very rough start, but look where it is right now.
Every single round has something exciting going, there's not single moment to actually catch breath in csgo, even low level csgo can be fun to watch
credit where credit is due. but tbh immortals got into the final beating BIG and VP which is like not the hardest thing to do. Immortals are tier two (solid tier two though). Gambit - their performance was astonishing. I think we'll have to watch out for them over the next months. But for IMT, I'm fairly sure we became witness of a fluke.
On July 24 2017 06:59 beentheredonethat wrote: credit where credit is due. but tbh immortals got into the final beating BIG and VP which is like not the hardest thing to do. Immortals are tier two (solid tier two though). Gambit - their performance was astonishing. I think we'll have to watch out for them over the next months. But for IMT, I'm fairly sure we became witness of a fluke.
Immortals has way more silverware prior to this. Their biggest criticism has been the fact that they havnet qualified for majors when they should.
Both teams are just as likely to full off or kick on. I find this "they played X" and they played "y" absolutely flabbergasting. There are very few easy opponents at this this level anymore I absolutely loathe people who devalue performances based on opponents. You can only play what you are faced up against. People did the same with the SK wins putting in "qualifiers" for how strong the opposition was. Bullshit
On July 24 2017 06:59 beentheredonethat wrote: credit where credit is due. but tbh immortals got into the final beating BIG and VP which is like not the hardest thing to do. Immortals are tier two (solid tier two though). Gambit - their performance was astonishing. I think we'll have to watch out for them over the next months. But for IMT, I'm fairly sure we became witness of a fluke.
well you always have a part of luck when it comes to bracket and path, that's the case in most esport or sport games - but they did what they had to do, and beating VP with the whole crowd cheering against you is quite a performance
brazilian CS amazes me, specially about the fact that they are far from europe yet they were able to catch up
na'vi staff lack of good judgement has been impressive so far, happy that zeus exposed them
On July 24 2017 06:59 beentheredonethat wrote: credit where credit is due. but tbh immortals got into the final beating BIG and VP which is like not the hardest thing to do. Immortals are tier two (solid tier two though). Gambit - their performance was astonishing. I think we'll have to watch out for them over the next months. But for IMT, I'm fairly sure we became witness of a fluke.
Immortals has way more silverware prior to this. Their biggest criticism has been the fact that they havnet qualified for majors when they should.
Both teams are just as likely to full off or kick on. I find this "they played X" and they played "y" absolutely flabbergasting. There are very few easy opponents at this this level anymore I absolutely loathe people who devalue performances based on opponents. You can only play what you are faced up against. People did the same with the SK wins putting in "qualifiers" for how strong the opposition was. Bullshit
It has nothing to do with devalueing what they did! IMT did the best they could do (except beating Gambit) so of course they did a great job, and had they won the major, all kudos and all the glory to them. Nevertheless, the path they had was easier. In CS:GO, there is imho no clear no #1 to beat, there's rather a range of 2-4 teams which you should be able to at least compete with to be called a tier one team. I don't see IMT compete over more than one Bo3 with Astralis, SK, even Faze (granted that the early exit wasn't the start of a long term slump), and G2 on their good days. Consistency is key to be Tier 1 and if you go for that, you're left with Astralis and SK as clear tier 1 and then Faze > G2 and then the rest.
I repeat, it's not devalueing the achievement they made. It's simply putting things into perspective. Because if you look at the major alone, then yes, IMT is #2 of the world and gambit is #1 in the world. But I'm fairly certain this is not how it is.
On July 24 2017 06:59 beentheredonethat wrote: credit where credit is due. but tbh immortals got into the final beating BIG and VP which is like not the hardest thing to do. Immortals are tier two (solid tier two though). Gambit - their performance was astonishing. I think we'll have to watch out for them over the next months. But for IMT, I'm fairly sure we became witness of a fluke.
well you always have a part of luck when it comes to bracket and path, that's the case in most esport or sport games - but they did what they had to do, and beating VP with the whole crowd cheering against you is quite a performance
brazilian CS amazes me, specially about the fact that they are far from europe yet they were able to catch up
na'vi staff lack of good judgement has been impressive so far, happy that zeus exposed them
Beating VP against that crows shows a mentality that is astonishing and impressive and basically confirms that these guys are ready to take on any major at any time, although this was in great parts their first one.
You don't have to beat everyone to be World Champion, only those on your way.
And yes, right now Gambit is #1 and IMT is #2, whatever you think they might or might not be is just theories that doesnt hold when you consider that in the thoughest tournament right now gambit was #1 and imt #2
So happy for Zeus. He was clearly not the problem in Na'Vi His plans where he uses just a tec9 or P250 even when he has enough money to buy a rifle on T-side is also something that's pretty much unheard of...
On July 27 2017 03:03 jojamon wrote: So happy for Zeus. He was clearly not the problem in Na'Vi His plans where he uses just a tec9 or P250 even when he has enough money to buy a rifle on T-side is also something that's pretty much unheard of...
People do that for full nades on support players all the time.
On July 27 2017 03:03 jojamon wrote: So happy for Zeus. He was clearly not the problem in Na'Vi His plans where he uses just a tec9 or P250 even when he has enough money to buy a rifle on T-side is also something that's pretty much unheard of...
People do that for full nades on support players all the time.
But he had like 6k bank. He could easily afford a full buy. He would peek banana on Inferno to get info very fast. Sometimes he finds a pick then steals a gun and runs away. No other team really does that consistently.
On July 27 2017 03:03 jojamon wrote: So happy for Zeus. He was clearly not the problem in Na'Vi His plans where he uses just a tec9 or P250 even when he has enough money to buy a rifle on T-side is also something that's pretty much unheard of...
People do that for full nades on support players all the time.
But he had like 6k bank. He could easily afford a full buy. He would peek banana on Inferno to get info very fast. Sometimes he finds a pick then steals a gun and runs away. No other team really does that consistently.
That seems like a low percentage greedy play. I dont see whats smart about that. But ok.
On July 27 2017 03:03 jojamon wrote: So happy for Zeus. He was clearly not the problem in Na'Vi His plans where he uses just a tec9 or P250 even when he has enough money to buy a rifle on T-side is also something that's pretty much unheard of...
People do that for full nades on support players all the time.
But he had like 6k bank. He could easily afford a full buy. He would peek banana on Inferno to get info very fast. Sometimes he finds a pick then steals a gun and runs away. No other team really does that consistently.
That seems like a low percentage greedy play. I dont see whats smart about that. But ok.
He can play aggressive/scouting anti-eco and not risk losing a rifle to other time and potentially lose the game.
On July 27 2017 03:03 jojamon wrote: So happy for Zeus. He was clearly not the problem in Na'Vi His plans where he uses just a tec9 or P250 even when he has enough money to buy a rifle on T-side is also something that's pretty much unheard of...
People do that for full nades on support players all the time.
But he had like 6k bank. He could easily afford a full buy. He would peek banana on Inferno to get info very fast. Sometimes he finds a pick then steals a gun and runs away. No other team really does that consistently.
That seems like a low percentage greedy play. I dont see whats smart about that. But ok.
He can play aggressive/scouting anti-eco and not risk losing a rifle to other time and potentially lose the game.
Thats nothing new vs Anti Ecos. It is not super common, true, but think of players like Flusha. He has been doing that stuff in Anti Ecos and even full buy rounds for ages
Though sometimes I don't get why teams resort to that kind of decisions, and at the same time play kinda recklessly against ecos, without using their mollies, nade, etc to flush out close corners and ambush spots where a Five-seven. That's like textbook anti-eco stuff and yet....
Exactly the reason I would rather like full nades and a UMP in the second/third round than a naked AK + Armor. Having one is fine, if you can afford some nades as well.
I agree loosing players or even rounds on anti ecos is silly if you have nades that you did not even use. Still it kind of makes sense if teams try to get their cash as far ahead as possible. Not using nades saves like 1k per player (assuming you use all your nades), directly buying an AK saves you the 1.2k for the UMP (even though SMG bonus money can be even better). But given the power of pistols i do favour your approach of UMP + nades and like 2 AKs
On July 27 2017 03:03 jojamon wrote: So happy for Zeus. He was clearly not the problem in Na'Vi His plans where he uses just a tec9 or P250 even when he has enough money to buy a rifle on T-side is also something that's pretty much unheard of...
People do that for full nades on support players all the time.
But he had like 6k bank. He could easily afford a full buy. He would peek banana on Inferno to get info very fast. Sometimes he finds a pick then steals a gun and runs away. No other team really does that consistently.
That seems like a low percentage greedy play. I dont see whats smart about that. But ok.
He can play aggressive/scouting anti-eco and not risk losing a rifle to other time and potentially lose the game.
Yeah what everyone else said. Being greedy vs anti ecos like that is nothing new. Alot of people do it for various reason again as everyone said, infact alot of them do it to get faster awps to drop/buy in the first gun rounds/
I thought you were implying he was deliberately buying pistons saving money even with full nades available on gun rounds which is a dumber play the more I think about.