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On November 01 2010 23:35 Originalien wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 22:34 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: lol USA has an 800 billion trade deficit , China has 200+ billion surplus. Sorry buddy but it is China that is rich and USA that is poor.
If i borrow 1 million dollars from the bank does that make me rich? because soon i will be poor when i have spent it and the interest keeps building. Yeah but u all forget, world bank determines the global economy and its run by white people and jews. MONEY IS NOT REAL PEOPLE. ITS NUMBERS IN A COMPUTER. America will never go bankrupt because its the shield protecting the white people, and the white people are in control. HERE AN ECONOMIST QUESTION ( one which any economics student who actually knows wtf is going on will immediately laugh at ) - How can a system that loans X dollars with X interest Ever pay its debt off???? IT CANT I CREATE a country. Say for example in an island that rises out of the water. Its lucious, full of minerals etc ( like africa cough cough ). I got to the world bank, "Hey im a new country, give me money to build infrastructure and start my country " Ok says the world bank, we think ur country is worth 1 trillion, we will give u 1 trillion dollars. Btw theres 1% interest on that. Ok i say, sounds like a good deal I start my country and its worth is 1 trillion dollars..... I spend every dollar on the country...... I spend every resource of the country to pay it back I then owe the bank FOREVER. GET IT. There is 1 % i can NEVER PAY BACK. That is the futility of the capitalist system, its build to FOOL U into using it, when in reality u can NEVER pay back what u owe, meaning u are FOREVER OWNED by the world banks zeitgeist peoples , watch some real documentarys and wake up.,,,, Its all control, its all a joke and untill u realize how shit works u cant see how truly wrong it is..... So learn how shit works
I know how shit works.
I have a degree in how shit works.
I am earning a second degree in how shit works, and I will probably get a third after that. At that point hopefully I will decide how shit works.
You do not. You watched zeitgeist, a documentary so jam packed full of bullshit that I can smell manure whenever I walk by a videostore.
The last time the U.S. paid off the debt, it did so with seignorage.
Btw, where did you pull those numbers out of your ass from?
Here's what actually happens in your example.
The country has debt of Y, windfall of X, and Gov't Revenue of Z. They have interest of 1%. Let's suppose they commit
Thus their debt is measured by Y2=(1.01)Y- nZ where n is some percentage.
If nZ = 0.01Y, then they are making interest payments. If it is higher, then they are making interest payments and principal payments. If it's lower, then they get to borrow more.
The idea that a country can never pay off it's debt is ridiculous, because it's happened before.
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On November 02 2010 02:01 IamTheWhiteGuy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +CAWG is the most hilarious organization ever.
A non-partisan grassroots political movement funded by Pratt & Whitney, Microsoft, Exxon-Mobil, Merrill-Lynch, and other small mom and pop businesses.
They are non-Partisan insofar only as they are devoted to ensuring that the companies they lobby for get ahead, regardless of the political party through which they do so.
Seriously, go to their homepage. It's amazing. You'll see a link for "Help stop $2.9 Billion in wasteful defense spending!"
"Oh," you'll think "this really is a non-partisan organization. They want to stop spending money on the war!"
No.
Sadly not. They want to stop development on F136 engine for the JSF. Why do they want to do this?
Because the manufacturer of the current engine, the F135, paid them a shitload of money .
I fully agree. Also, it makes a lot of sense for industry to hire a "anti money waste" organisation. Why? -> Such an organisation obviously is very suited to critise social spendings, which means it's great to weaken the left wing. That's the use for companies to support this organisation. -> Right wing parties are much more friendly towards big companies and rich people. That's the reason for companies to support this organisation.
Now, if we look at that ad: It obviously is made to imply fear to U.S. citizens watching this. Fearful citizens will much rather vote conservative: Xenophobia, fear that the country might lose it's important role; all these things are easy to be used by right wing parties, even though they not actually are a solution for them.
It's obvious that CAWG is a marionette of industry...
Oh about the problem of interests making people and gouvernments poor: -France had a nice way of solving it: It was called "blood-letting" and consisted of decapitating their creditors. -Other countries just went bankrupt, it's not as bad as it sounds for a nation... Spain managed to go bankrupt for seven or eight times in a single century.
Since none of these solutions were used, and huge banks owning a lot of state debt were rescued, many western nations are in severe debt right now, which increases social injustice as debts mean that tax money (from most of the population) go to banks via interest rates. From there it goes to stock exchange and wealthy people. As many nations have super high debts right now and most countries don't want to increase top tax rate or introduce solid minimum wages, this means that social injustice will increase. So, in other words: The western culture is heading into a huge crisis right now. There will be state bankrupts at the very least and severe economic crisis will follow. I'm quite certain that there will be huge change in this regards over this century, hopefully restoring social balance once more.
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I found it very far from a profound advertisement.
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Well as any propoganda this is stupid. idiocy being the supeority complex many politians obviously feel. Well i don't like the chineese government(I don't like any governments), but this is just a display of ignorance. whatever country that has the strongest economy is evil? wasnt USA evil at some point if we follow that logic?
Politics = hypocrisy. And screw govenrments they are nothing than parasites on the society.
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On November 02 2010 02:32 Celadan wrote:Well as any propoganda this is stupid. idiocy being the supeority complex many politians obviously feel. Well i don't like the chineese government(I don't like any governments), but this is just a display of ignorance. whatever country that has the strongest economy is evil? wasnt USA evil at some point if we follow that logic? Politics = hypocrisy. And screw govenrments they are nothing than parasites on the society.
Hold up on the anarchy, the government is a beautiful thing, it can be a travesty when it is used in the wrong way
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On November 02 2010 02:19 IamTheWhiteGuy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 23:35 Originalien wrote:On November 01 2010 22:34 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: lol USA has an 800 billion trade deficit , China has 200+ billion surplus. Sorry buddy but it is China that is rich and USA that is poor.
If i borrow 1 million dollars from the bank does that make me rich? because soon i will be poor when i have spent it and the interest keeps building. Yeah but u all forget, world bank determines the global economy and its run by white people and jews. MONEY IS NOT REAL PEOPLE. ITS NUMBERS IN A COMPUTER. America will never go bankrupt because its the shield protecting the white people, and the white people are in control. HERE AN ECONOMIST QUESTION ( one which any economics student who actually knows wtf is going on will immediately laugh at ) - How can a system that loans X dollars with X interest Ever pay its debt off???? IT CANT I CREATE a country. Say for example in an island that rises out of the water. Its lucious, full of minerals etc ( like africa cough cough ). I got to the world bank, "Hey im a new country, give me money to build infrastructure and start my country " Ok says the world bank, we think ur country is worth 1 trillion, we will give u 1 trillion dollars. Btw theres 1% interest on that. Ok i say, sounds like a good deal I start my country and its worth is 1 trillion dollars..... I spend every dollar on the country...... I spend every resource of the country to pay it back I then owe the bank FOREVER. GET IT. There is 1 % i can NEVER PAY BACK. That is the futility of the capitalist system, its build to FOOL U into using it, when in reality u can NEVER pay back what u owe, meaning u are FOREVER OWNED by the world banks zeitgeist peoples , watch some real documentarys and wake up.,,,, Its all control, its all a joke and untill u realize how shit works u cant see how truly wrong it is..... So learn how shit works I know how shit works. I have a degree in how shit works. I am earning a second degree in how shit works, and I will probably get a third after that. At that point hopefully I will decide how shit works. You do not. You watched zeitgeist, a documentary so jam packed full of bullshit that I can smell manure whenever I walk by a videostore. The last time the U.S. paid off the debt, it did so with seignorage. Btw, where did you pull those numbers out of your ass from? Here's what actually happens in your example. The country has debt of Y, windfall of X, and Gov't Revenue of Z. They have interest of 1%. Let's suppose they commit Thus their debt is measured by Y2=(1.01)Y- nZ where n is some percentage. If nZ = 0.01Y, then they are making interest payments. If it is higher, then they are making interest payments and principal payments. If it's lower, then they get to borrow more. The idea that a country can never pay off it's debt is ridiculous, because it's happened before.
omg, some one I agree with.
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Uh, China can never "own" the US. The US is the only one who can make US dollars. So no matter how much US dollars China owns, the US can always print more, and devalue China's "ownership." Government debt to other countries is very poorly understood by most people.
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I'm confused, is China owning the US better or worse than the Federal Reserve owning the US?
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On November 02 2010 02:19 IamTheWhiteGuy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 23:35 Originalien wrote:On November 01 2010 22:34 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: lol USA has an 800 billion trade deficit , China has 200+ billion surplus. Sorry buddy but it is China that is rich and USA that is poor.
If i borrow 1 million dollars from the bank does that make me rich? because soon i will be poor when i have spent it and the interest keeps building. Yeah but u all forget, world bank determines the global economy and its run by white people and jews. MONEY IS NOT REAL PEOPLE. ITS NUMBERS IN A COMPUTER. America will never go bankrupt because its the shield protecting the white people, and the white people are in control. HERE AN ECONOMIST QUESTION ( one which any economics student who actually knows wtf is going on will immediately laugh at ) - How can a system that loans X dollars with X interest Ever pay its debt off???? IT CANT I CREATE a country. Say for example in an island that rises out of the water. Its lucious, full of minerals etc ( like africa cough cough ). I got to the world bank, "Hey im a new country, give me money to build infrastructure and start my country " Ok says the world bank, we think ur country is worth 1 trillion, we will give u 1 trillion dollars. Btw theres 1% interest on that. Ok i say, sounds like a good deal I start my country and its worth is 1 trillion dollars..... I spend every dollar on the country...... I spend every resource of the country to pay it back I then owe the bank FOREVER. GET IT. There is 1 % i can NEVER PAY BACK. That is the futility of the capitalist system, its build to FOOL U into using it, when in reality u can NEVER pay back what u owe, meaning u are FOREVER OWNED by the world banks zeitgeist peoples , watch some real documentarys and wake up.,,,, Its all control, its all a joke and untill u realize how shit works u cant see how truly wrong it is..... So learn how shit works I know how shit works. I have a degree in how shit works. I am earning a second degree in how shit works, and I will probably get a third after that. At that point hopefully I will decide how shit works. You do not. You watched zeitgeist, a documentary so jam packed full of bullshit that I can smell manure whenever I walk by a videostore. The last time the U.S. paid off the debt, it did so with seignorage. Btw, where did you pull those numbers out of your ass from? Here's what actually happens in your example. The country has debt of Y, windfall of X, and Gov't Revenue of Z. They have interest of 1%. Let's suppose they commit Thus their debt is measured by Y2=(1.01)Y- nZ where n is some percentage. If nZ = 0.01Y, then they are making interest payments. If it is higher, then they are making interest payments and principal payments. If it's lower, then they get to borrow more. The idea that a country can never pay off it's debt is ridiculous, because it's happened before.
lol, he went way over your head
Please tell me, when was the last time the US paid off "the debt"?
Have you paid off the bankers for your "I know shit" papers yet?
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better than being owned by a lot of other nations haha. plus they had some really cool gadgets and some quite cute girls
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On November 02 2010 03:22 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 02:19 IamTheWhiteGuy wrote:On November 01 2010 23:35 Originalien wrote:On November 01 2010 22:34 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: lol USA has an 800 billion trade deficit , China has 200+ billion surplus. Sorry buddy but it is China that is rich and USA that is poor.
If i borrow 1 million dollars from the bank does that make me rich? because soon i will be poor when i have spent it and the interest keeps building. Yeah but u all forget, world bank determines the global economy and its run by white people and jews. MONEY IS NOT REAL PEOPLE. ITS NUMBERS IN A COMPUTER. America will never go bankrupt because its the shield protecting the white people, and the white people are in control. HERE AN ECONOMIST QUESTION ( one which any economics student who actually knows wtf is going on will immediately laugh at ) - How can a system that loans X dollars with X interest Ever pay its debt off???? IT CANT I CREATE a country. Say for example in an island that rises out of the water. Its lucious, full of minerals etc ( like africa cough cough ). I got to the world bank, "Hey im a new country, give me money to build infrastructure and start my country " Ok says the world bank, we think ur country is worth 1 trillion, we will give u 1 trillion dollars. Btw theres 1% interest on that. Ok i say, sounds like a good deal I start my country and its worth is 1 trillion dollars..... I spend every dollar on the country...... I spend every resource of the country to pay it back I then owe the bank FOREVER. GET IT. There is 1 % i can NEVER PAY BACK. That is the futility of the capitalist system, its build to FOOL U into using it, when in reality u can NEVER pay back what u owe, meaning u are FOREVER OWNED by the world banks zeitgeist peoples , watch some real documentarys and wake up.,,,, Its all control, its all a joke and untill u realize how shit works u cant see how truly wrong it is..... So learn how shit works I know how shit works. I have a degree in how shit works. I am earning a second degree in how shit works, and I will probably get a third after that. At that point hopefully I will decide how shit works. You do not. You watched zeitgeist, a documentary so jam packed full of bullshit that I can smell manure whenever I walk by a videostore. The last time the U.S. paid off the debt, it did so with seignorage. Btw, where did you pull those numbers out of your ass from? Here's what actually happens in your example. The country has debt of Y, windfall of X, and Gov't Revenue of Z. They have interest of 1%. Let's suppose they commit Thus their debt is measured by Y2=(1.01)Y- nZ where n is some percentage. If nZ = 0.01Y, then they are making interest payments. If it is higher, then they are making interest payments and principal payments. If it's lower, then they get to borrow more. The idea that a country can never pay off it's debt is ridiculous, because it's happened before. lol, he went way over your head Please tell me, when was the last time the US paid off "the debt"? Have you paid off the bankers for your "I know shit" papers yet?
We have never been out of debt. We were in debt when our country was founded. However, at the end of ww2, we got somewhere around 150-200% GDP in debt. In less than a decade, we'd paid it down to around 30% of GDP in debt. We floated around that level for a couple decades and then started inching back up to where we are now, sitting around 60% of GDP in debt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt America has less debt to GDP ratio than: Japan Italy Greece Singapore Iceland Belgium France Portugal Canada Germany Austria United Kingdom Netherlands Norway Ireland Spain
America's debt is not in a bad situation. Hence why there was no run on dollars but there was a run on Euro's.
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On November 01 2010 13:02 Beef Noodles wrote: If it only came down to an arbitrary ranking of 1st and 2nd strongest, then nothing would matter. But in a future where China truly eclipsed America and started to flex its muscle as the DOMINANT world power, many people find that frightening given China's view on individual freedoms. Think of how China has dealt with the Uyghurs in Xinjiang or the Tibetans. People are still dying but no one is hearing about it.
A colleague of mine had two girls as students. They were both in their second year of college. They were caught making pamphlets for the Falun Gong (a religious group that China discriminates against). They came crying to my friend for help. He told them to calm down and nothing was going to happen. The next day they both DISAPPEARED. This is not some "patriot act" thing where they were deemed terrorists and they are held in some prison where the next president to come along will pardon them. This is an off the record murder.
If China makes a push toward more human rights then all is well, but until then I will fear a future where they are the strongest nation in the world. Two points here:
1. What is your point? That China is bad when it comes to human rights? Okay, I don't think anyone is arguing with you on that one. How does this tie in with China having the best economy being a serious problem? What, you think China having the best economy is going to lead to other countries emulating China's government when it comes to human rights? Like the following is going to happen or something:
Brazilian President: Okay. Growth wasn't that great last year, how can we improve it this year? What did China do? China's #1, they know what's best. Let's see... they firebombed an orphanage in Tibet. That's it! That's the key to growth! Killing children! Brazilian Advisor: Uh... sir... I don't think those two are actually related... Brazilian President: Quiet man! Don't you understand? China did it. Whatever they're doing is working, so we should just follow their lead! Now find me a Guatemalan orphanage!
Yeah, I don't know, Nostradamus, that doesn't seem very likely.
2. Okay, for the sake of argument, let's assume that's a very serious and likely problem. So by reverse you're saying it's better for the US to be #1, so we can be the ones to flex our dominant muscles. You know, because the US is so beloved by other countries and we serve as a paragon of liberty and fiscal responsibility and an example for silly primitive European countries to follo- Oh wait! No, that's not what's happening at all. Turns out we're the ones mired in two clusterfuck wars, with armies in foreign countries bribing, torturing, and killing civilians while troops are stationed in a dozen other countries. Yeah, I think the present reality is already frightening enough for plenty of people, I don't really see how a China-dominant world would be any more frightening than a US-dominant one. Not that that's even likely, no matter how big China's economy gets, no country is ever going to match the military strength of America.
And I thought I told you to stop spewing vapid emotional rhetoric. No wait, I only thought that I should tell you to stop. Your logically brilliant argument of "China is bad mmkay something something this leads to China should not be a dominant economic power... by the way I was actually in China, so you should agree with me" is not constructive at all.
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I am totally in the dark about this kind of stuff, but is external debt a bit worse than public debt? sure US is low on public debt but the US ranks highest in external debt.
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NOT racist. IS meant to instill fear, which is not a bad thing. DOES show how history repeats itself.
extreme, yes. but racist and/or inaccurate? no.
sticking your head in the sand and pretending everything will magically go away (failing economy, massive debts, failing stimulus packages, increasing number of society leaches, etc etc) will not solve the problems.
A chinese takeover might be kind of extreme, but who knows? the Brits probably laughed as many of you are now at the thought of America overpowering them. People on the whole laughed at Edison or Franklin (or one of the significant pioneers, i forget) for thinking electricity was useful.
Everyone in America needs to wake up and realize that their life can change, and will change if people dont start realizing whats going on.
PS. people.. raging ur opinion really gets you know where. no one takes u seriously, so if ur going to debate a point.. learn to debate first.
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there are 2 things pretty presumptuous on this video first puting usa together with rome as an empire second thinking you guys will be richest TILL 2k30 ....
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On November 02 2010 03:43 jsrealpm wrote: I am totally in the dark about this kind of stuff, but is external debt a bit worse than public debt? sure US is low on public debt but the US ranks highest in external debt.
uh... no, we don't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt
Again, to accurately compare, compare as % of GDP. Our external debt is below:
Luxembourg Ireland Netherlands United Kingdom Hong Kong Switzerland Belgium Portugal Austria Denmark France Greece Spain Sweden Germany Finland Norway Bulgaria Italy
Out of the developed countries, pretty much Australia, New Zealand and Japan are the only ones doing better.
So, next unfounded generic talking point?
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china has been around 3000 years, usa has been around 10% of that. think what kind of country we would be like if we had civilization that old
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On November 02 2010 03:57 noD wrote: there are 2 things pretty presumptuous on this video first puting usa together with rome as an empire second thinking you guys will be richest TILL 2k30 ....
... we are a developed nation of 310 million people... no other developed nation comes remotely close to our population... the closest is Japan and they are declining...
So I don't think it's very presumptuous to assume America will be the largest economy in the world until China (or possibly India but China's more likely to get there first) passes us up.
Given current trends, China will pass America in girth around 2030 but China is already slowing down and the date is more likely to be 2040 or 2050.
Despite what people think, China was hurt badly by the global crisis. China lost more jobs than the entire developed world combined (not exagerating).
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-02/03/content_7440106.htm if you want some support of my claim. Google it yourself and you will see I am right.
China was able to post growth because they spent 500 billion USD in a stimulus package. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_economic_stimulus_program
By % of GDP, China spent far more stimulating its economy than any western country did.
In my opinion, it is quite presumptious to assume that China will continue to post double digit GDP growth for the next 20 years.
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So, giving people healthcare is now... WASTE.. nice i dont live in america,
actually, you know what.. I DO FUCKING LIVE IN AMERICA!! ARGENTINA IS IN AMERICA,SOUTH AMERICA, LATIN AMERICA..
USA IS NOT AMERICA, AMERICA IS THE FREAKIN CONTINENTTTTTTTTTTTT
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