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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned: 1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post. 2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no. 3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture. 4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
United Kingdom13774 Posts
On December 08 2016 09:13 Uldridge wrote: Maybe you were misled by your own psyche that you knew what you got was more than just ok, when in reality -and some experience down the road later- it's not. People evolve and if you're not getting out of the relationship what you initially thought you'd get, I'd say it needs a thorough reevaluation in the sense that the breakup should be almost unavoidable. That's basically how it went in this case. A was good at first but ultimately it wasn't meant to work out and a lot of the "I don't have any real problems here" was just burying genuine concerns because the psyche just does that shit. And yet the fact that B did invoke the reaction she did was, as I realized later, not without reason because it really was a stark and meaningful contrast between how compatible each of them was. And yet walking away isn't easy because it never is and you don't always know for sure what will happen. In that case it turned out that appearances were accurate that B>>A, that the relation with A was ultimately a ticking time bomb, and that I should have ultimately pursued B sooner, but I'm sure that enough people have been misled after leaving A and finding that A>B after all. The latter case is probably what motivates the conventional wisdom but I'm really curious just how frequent each of these cases is.
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United States15275 Posts
On December 07 2016 13:20 B.I.G. wrote: Could you elaborate on the last two sentences, especially sexual maturity? What do you exactly mean by that?
When you're young, sex and your ideas about it are central to forming/establishing your identity. Naturally you have little experience, so most instances of attraction are reciprocal or based on ideas from other sources. You date girls according to whether you're "on their level" and whether they reflect something about you. You're aware that being with certain girls communicates something about you to others, and the latter's opinions are important to you. You can't approach certain girls because you don't think you "deserve them". It's hard to turn down sex as long as she's acceptable in your mind.
As you grow older this changes. Part of it is a decreasing sex drive, but most of it is self-knowledge and losing the need for validation through relationships. You don't find every remotely attractive girl desirable because you acquired discernment. You don't care about whether your guy friends think she's hot (or what specific type of "hot" she is) because their approval has become ancillary. You don't care whether people disagree with your choices in women. Girls thinking you're hot barely matters - at best it's amusing. Girls have value beyond the possibility of sex or making you feel emotionally good. You're not constantly striving to find happiness from external sources (and therefore being a leech in relationships). Of course, for a lot of men this never happens and they remain adolescents in their ideas about it.
On December 07 2016 14:23 Danglars wrote: Sex drive dropping lower also helps. And aren't you saying he's right for younger "Just friends" ... self fulfilling prophesy signals they're defeating the friendship by calling it truly a friendship. You seem to say it's natural for people to kind of grow out of having bs friendships with as maturity comes.
The self-fulfilling prophecy is that a woman's primary value to a man is sexual. Therefore every interaction becomes sexually charged and judged by whether it can (or will) eventually lead to sex; of course this only applies if she's beautiful.
On December 08 2016 01:42 LegalLord wrote: So here's a question I've pondered for a while, and I was curious what others think. Say you're currently seeing A, and things seem to be more or less alright; nothing particularly wrong with that relationship. Then B comes along, and seems like someone you connect with on a deep level and whom you could see yourself getting along with even better than with A. Should you give up on A and pursue B?
Conventional wisdom, other than Johnny Depp, pretty much gives an unambiguous "no" to this question. And yet, anecdotally, the one time that I had a situation like that in my life a fair few years ago, I really wish I had given B more attention when I had the chance. The "nothing really wrong" situation is often a smokescreen for a wide range of issues that you unconsciously bury beneath the surface (I've been far more easily capable of acknowledging the faults with people who I had better experiences with) and the more I thought about it, the more deep-seated and irreconcilable the problems turned out to be with A.
And I'm sure everyone realizes that if you don't take something when offered, you very well may never get another chance. I met B again and tried my best but ultimately, despite the fact that I was absolutely right about how compatible we seemed, for various reasons it was too late. Definitely ranks as one of the biggest disappointments I've had despite the fact that it's mostly in line with "conventional wisdom" on the matter.
Of course, perhaps others have had the opposite situation, where B turned out to be overrated and you shouldn't have left A. I'm curious if anyone else has had this situation.
Conventional wisdom is probably derived from the assumptions that:
- All the intense emotions of a new relationship gradually simmer down as you acclimatize to the new situation. When it has become turgid, you become vulnerable to the allure of novelty.
- Relationships require work and commitment to maintain. It's much easier to heed your emotions when it is going sour and believe that another person is better for you simply because she makes you feel more alive. It is often used as an escape from a middling relationship instead of addressing what was wrong in the first place.
- Attraction is not simply about compatibility but possibility. One of the main reasons why relationships develop is because the other person accepts us as we are or the self-image we want to be true. Similarly, people have affairs since is it allows them to put themselves into different "roles" than what they've become unwillingly accustomed to.
In a situation like yours, it's almost impossible to know whether a different choice would have resulted in a happier future. It's entirely possible that B is only this dazzling when you are in the discovery phase of the relationship, and that the whole thing becomes as stale and problematic as what was going on with A. It may be that your preferences for A and B rely less on their characteristics and more on how they make you feel (I'm pejoratively biased on that subject, so take it with a grain of salt). The only thing I could advise is to act based on your personal standards of behavior instead of any promise of a more fulfilling relationship.
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On December 08 2016 01:42 LegalLord wrote: So here's a question I've pondered for a while, and I was curious what others think. Say you're currently seeing A, and things seem to be more or less alright; nothing particularly wrong with that relationship. Then B comes along, and seems like someone you connect with on a deep level and whom you could see yourself getting along with even better than with A. Should you give up on A and pursue B?
Conventional wisdom, other than Johnny Depp, pretty much gives an unambiguous "no" to this question. And yet, anecdotally, the one time that I had a situation like that in my life a fair few years ago, I really wish I had given B more attention when I had the chance. The "nothing really wrong" situation is often a smokescreen for a wide range of issues that you unconsciously bury beneath the surface (I've been far more easily capable of acknowledging the faults with people who I had better experiences with) and the more I thought about it, the more deep-seated and irreconcilable the problems turned out to be with A.
And I'm sure everyone realizes that if you don't take something when offered, you very well may never get another chance. I met B again and tried my best but ultimately, despite the fact that I was absolutely right about how compatible we seemed, for various reasons it was too late. Definitely ranks as one of the biggest disappointments I've had despite the fact that it's mostly in line with "conventional wisdom" on the matter.
Of course, perhaps others have had the opposite situation, where B turned out to be overrated and you shouldn't have left A. I'm curious if anyone else has had this situation. i did this and ruined my life.
girl a still to this day i know could have been the one if i was little more mature, b seemed like a good option however having met her a bunch and had sex and all i realize i fucked up really bad.
i guess its bad i was considering her so superior i was going to cheat but couldnt go through with it. but looking back it ended up ruining my relationship with a, and i still dont go a single day without thinking about it
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On December 08 2016 01:42 LegalLord wrote: So here's a question I've pondered for a while, and I was curious what others think. Say you're currently seeing A, and things seem to be more or less alright; nothing particularly wrong with that relationship. Then B comes along, and seems like someone you connect with on a deep level and whom you could see yourself getting along with even better than with A. Should you give up on A and pursue B?
Conventional wisdom, other than Johnny Depp, pretty much gives an unambiguous "no" to this question. And yet, anecdotally, the one time that I had a situation like that in my life a fair few years ago, I really wish I had given B more attention when I had the chance. The "nothing really wrong" situation is often a smokescreen for a wide range of issues that you unconsciously bury beneath the surface (I've been far more easily capable of acknowledging the faults with people who I had better experiences with) and the more I thought about it, the more deep-seated and irreconcilable the problems turned out to be with A.
And I'm sure everyone realizes that if you don't take something when offered, you very well may never get another chance. I met B again and tried my best but ultimately, despite the fact that I was absolutely right about how compatible we seemed, for various reasons it was too late. Definitely ranks as one of the biggest disappointments I've had despite the fact that it's mostly in line with "conventional wisdom" on the matter.
Of course, perhaps others have had the opposite situation, where B turned out to be overrated and you shouldn't have left A. I'm curious if anyone else has had this situation. So how did A react when you discussed it with her?
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United Kingdom13774 Posts
On December 08 2016 23:00 LemOn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 01:42 LegalLord wrote: So here's a question I've pondered for a while, and I was curious what others think. Say you're currently seeing A, and things seem to be more or less alright; nothing particularly wrong with that relationship. Then B comes along, and seems like someone you connect with on a deep level and whom you could see yourself getting along with even better than with A. Should you give up on A and pursue B?
Conventional wisdom, other than Johnny Depp, pretty much gives an unambiguous "no" to this question. And yet, anecdotally, the one time that I had a situation like that in my life a fair few years ago, I really wish I had given B more attention when I had the chance. The "nothing really wrong" situation is often a smokescreen for a wide range of issues that you unconsciously bury beneath the surface (I've been far more easily capable of acknowledging the faults with people who I had better experiences with) and the more I thought about it, the more deep-seated and irreconcilable the problems turned out to be with A.
And I'm sure everyone realizes that if you don't take something when offered, you very well may never get another chance. I met B again and tried my best but ultimately, despite the fact that I was absolutely right about how compatible we seemed, for various reasons it was too late. Definitely ranks as one of the biggest disappointments I've had despite the fact that it's mostly in line with "conventional wisdom" on the matter.
Of course, perhaps others have had the opposite situation, where B turned out to be overrated and you shouldn't have left A. I'm curious if anyone else has had this situation. So how did A react when you discussed it with her? It might speak to how well things were going with A that in the few months after that that things lasted, I never did feel that I could share that concern with her without it going badly, which should be a red flag but I didn't realize it at the time. At the time my rationale was simply that I cut it off with B and that that was the end of that. It really wasn't, but I'm sure we all know how the psyche can cloud your judgment in situations like that.
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On December 08 2016 13:07 B.I.G. wrote: I had an A and B situation recently. Met them around the same time. I was completely enamoured with A because she had a lot characteristics I like in a woman. With B there was a friend click, nothing more. Both are really awesome girls though. Like a week or so passes by where I get closer to A romantically and more friendly with B. Then chance strikes as a simple night of having a few after work drinks with me and a friend + B and her friend ends up in B and me hooking up. I still really liked A (we were just a few dates in mind you) but although I realized there was a potential future in A and very little potential in B (her looking for husband material and all that) I still decided to break it off with A because contrary to popular opinion I try to be a decent person and I'm not gonna lead a good girl like A on.
Against both her and my better judgement B and I keep hanging out in a friends with occassional hook up kinda way and we even start entertaining thoughts like this could maybe lead somewhere if we are both willing to compromise (me hurrying up and getting my shit together and her taking a chill pill and be willing to wait a few years).
However karma is an ice cold bitch and my alcoholic rampages and general misbehaviour finally caught up to me. On a disaster date (the story of which made my friends shit themselves with laughter save for the ones with the actual capability of feeling human emotion) I got black out drunk and apparently misbehaved so fucking badly to her and her friends I so utterly annihilated her feelings towards me.
So yeah I had an A and B situation with two awesome girls. The end result is A being sad because she never really understood what happened, B being angry with me and probably a bit more bitter against men in general, and me alone and a bit concerned about this hidden self destructive side of my me.
At least the story is good for some laughs though.
Definitely feel you man, not on the A or B side, but on the alcoholic rampage that fucks everything.
Happens to me from time to time, and even tho my gf is fucking awesome and comprehensive, it is soooo fucking damaging to the relationship your trying to create... Sometimes I just fucking hate myself. It's been a long time since the last one tho, trying to master it and to change, working not that bad so far..
Also, first post there, even tho i read for quite some time, keep it up guys. It's awesome, and, when it's not, it is at least damn fun.
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On December 08 2016 23:55 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2016 23:00 LemOn wrote:On December 08 2016 01:42 LegalLord wrote: So here's a question I've pondered for a while, and I was curious what others think. Say you're currently seeing A, and things seem to be more or less alright; nothing particularly wrong with that relationship. Then B comes along, and seems like someone you connect with on a deep level and whom you could see yourself getting along with even better than with A. Should you give up on A and pursue B?
Conventional wisdom, other than Johnny Depp, pretty much gives an unambiguous "no" to this question. And yet, anecdotally, the one time that I had a situation like that in my life a fair few years ago, I really wish I had given B more attention when I had the chance. The "nothing really wrong" situation is often a smokescreen for a wide range of issues that you unconsciously bury beneath the surface (I've been far more easily capable of acknowledging the faults with people who I had better experiences with) and the more I thought about it, the more deep-seated and irreconcilable the problems turned out to be with A.
And I'm sure everyone realizes that if you don't take something when offered, you very well may never get another chance. I met B again and tried my best but ultimately, despite the fact that I was absolutely right about how compatible we seemed, for various reasons it was too late. Definitely ranks as one of the biggest disappointments I've had despite the fact that it's mostly in line with "conventional wisdom" on the matter.
Of course, perhaps others have had the opposite situation, where B turned out to be overrated and you shouldn't have left A. I'm curious if anyone else has had this situation. So how did A react when you discussed it with her? It might speak to how well things were going with A that in the few months after that that things lasted, I never did feel that I could share that concern with her without it going badly, which should be a red flag but I didn't realize it at the time. At the time my rationale was simply that I cut it off with B and that that was the end of that. It really wasn't, but I'm sure we all know how the psyche can cloud your judgment in situations like that. Well maybe you should look at how awful you were with person A as opposed to what if scenarios, so you don't repeat the same mistakes end up with B until C comes along
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United Kingdom13774 Posts
Dating A was a mistake in and of itself, that much is true. I could have easily seen it if I had better foresight at the start. As it happens, I didn't at the time.
Oh well, I learned my lesson from that mistake. Never had that issue again. Though the A/B scenario is definitely something that I've thought about a fair bit since then.
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I think people should learn what they want in life before actually committing to things. It's very difficult to do this though, because there's such a plethora of options. Also, a failed relationship doesn't necessarily need to be a bad experience in its totality. You could've had a great experience, but ultimately wanted different things (family vs career; traveling vs settling down; evolving or having profound life altering experiences).
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On December 09 2016 05:16 LegalLord wrote: Dating A was a mistake in and of itself, that much is true. I could have easily seen it if I had better foresight at the start. As it happens, I didn't at the time.
Oh well, I learned my lesson from that mistake. Never had that issue again. Though the A/B scenario is definitely something that I've thought about a fair bit since then. Related: My recent relationship experience was getting dumped out of the blue. It was about 2 months in and for all I knew, things were going swimmingly. Shared interests, dates with friends, all the chemistry. I still don't know what happened.
The 'B' was a girl in extended friends circles that went from usual gossip about this new relationship to flirty as hell. She's a really established working professional a little older, but more of the travel the world type and I'm more into local weekend getaways snowboard/surf/backpack. A bit opposite my spectrum political views too (hehehe), but who cares, neither is really outspoken in an argumentative way. Before 'A,' B had no indicators of interest. Suddenly when I'm with A, B invites me to a week's getaway to go skiing/snowboarding at a friend's cabin in another state. Obviously I decline, but wow.
I'm still working through whether I can compromise on two-three big expensive trips per year and a couple other things. Right now I'm planning on searching for C.
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United States15275 Posts
Social proof is a turn-on for a lot of girls. Don't be too surprised.
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On December 07 2016 07:20 Artisreal wrote: Have you tried checkin the number on FB? And unless the split is gruesome I did tend to keep em but it's been years since that happened last time. I actually did try that, and it didn't end up being of use because for some reason my FB messenger app kept people in my contacts list even after I didn't have them as a phone contact anymore.
I'm like 90% sure who it is and it's not someone I want to talk to. I made it clear to them I wasn't interested in them anymore and they did the whole send weird passive aggressive messages once a week thing trying to get me to respond instead of acting like an adult and moving on. I just ignored the message and deleted it. I don't need that kind of negativity in my life.
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Do you guys think that having mainly hookups and sex dates puts you in a "self destructive" cycle where your view of women gets warped and the good girls smell it from a mile away, inevitably "condemning" you to more hook ups and one night stands?
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On December 11 2016 17:27 B.I.G. wrote: Do you guys think that having mainly hookups and sex dates puts you in a "self destructive" cycle where your view of women gets warped and the good girls smell it from a mile away, inevitably "condemning" you to more hook ups and one night stands? I really doubt they "smell it". I think it's just yourself and how you act, if you don't want to have one night stands, dont go to clubs and bring home girls never calling them again. If you want to have a boyfriend/girlfriend, ask them out on a real date.
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Yeah who was that guy - DirkMcFanny I think He was complaining that all girls in Ireland just want to hook up and don't want relationships. While picking them drunk in bars and on Tinder only :D
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Your view of women will definitely get warped though. I remember a friend saying women are cheating sluts since he had sex with a lot of them who had boyfriends. He mostly gets them through tinder/badoo. I had to tell him that his sample is skewed since loyal girlfriends probably won't have tinder.
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United Kingdom13774 Posts
Speaking of which, what is the general opinion most folks here have of online dating? I've seen it mentioned plenty and lots of people seem to be into it.
I'm personally not fond of it; I feel that it creates the wrong kind of environment for good relationships. It encourages moving quickly and selecting based on surface-level evaluations of many people, which is a completely wrong way to go about it. I've seen that a lot of people agree yet say that it's nevertheless worked out for them.
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I think online dating is becoming more and more mainstream. I use OKcupid, Badoo, and Tinder but especially the latter has allowed me to meet not only slutty women (as is the stereotype) but a bunch of seriously awesome ones as well. I think especially OKcupid is kinda BS because the amount of personal information it invites you to share really encourages those kinds of people that always have their checklists of what a partner should have or be handy. Enjoy your life of solitude is what I say to them. I think Tinder is successful because it works like real life. You determine interest on a glance. You match. It's mutual. Now go ahead and talk and see how deep the rabbit hole goes.
I can imagine though that Tinder is more suitable for people who have less trouble communicating.
And back to what I was asking earlier: The reason I ask is because I'm on a bit of a journey of self discovery when it comes to dating the last few weeks. In my group of friends here I have 4 in particular that are doing a lot of casual dating like me. Two of them particularly are like extreme versions of the rest of us. Over the past few years they have literally been with hundreds of women. What kinda triggered me was that one of them said to me "ha you are just like me when I was your age" (he's like 4 years older). The reason it triggered me is because although he's a good dude I think he has been "grinding" for so long now it he has become completely ice cold. And I see this pattern emerging with other less experienced friends as well. Some sort of self re-enforcing destructive cycle:
Have a lot of random hook ups -> become jaded -> meet an actual marriage material girl -> fuck up because you have no clue how to keep a woman like that around -> fuck that shit I guess I'll die alone vibe -> more random hook ups
So again, this questions I guess is mostly aimed at the manwhores of this thread. Did you experience this cycle as well or do you think its more related to other issues (if they have any) those guys are dealing with?
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On December 12 2016 02:24 LegalLord wrote: Speaking of which, what is the general opinion most folks here have of online dating? I've seen it mentioned plenty and lots of people seem to be into it.
I'm personally not fond of it; I feel that it creates the wrong kind of environment for good relationships. It encourages moving quickly and selecting based on surface-level evaluations of many people, which is a completely wrong way to go about it. I've seen that a lot of people agree yet say that it's nevertheless worked out for them. I do think that it is possible to do online dating with a long lasting relationship in mind. You just forgo the free dating sites / apps and you probably have a more serious partner-pool. That's what a friend of mine did. Although she met her husband very at the classic new year's eve party.
Personally, I don't go for online dating because I've never felt the need to use it and totally agree with your statement that, unless they come with a fee, the pool isn't that compatible with my goal of a long lasting relationship. And I would've been too cheap for a payed membership site when I was younger anyway.
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