It has been obvious she was warned many times, and that she was defiant. In the end both parties are stupid, the daughter is obviously spoiled and defiant while the parents fail at parenting and teaching.
Judge beats daughter for using the internet - Page 84
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GloryOfAiur
United States127 Posts
It has been obvious she was warned many times, and that she was defiant. In the end both parties are stupid, the daughter is obviously spoiled and defiant while the parents fail at parenting and teaching. | ||
ETisME
12067 Posts
On November 04 2011 12:28 Bigtony wrote: (Not just you but the similar answers from Austrian and other Europeans) Is it that hard to believe that your society simply has a different value? Do you actually think that spanking a child will cause permanent scarring or whatever negative affects you are implying? Or do you just take "research" at face value? (PS - obviously the research you read in your country will be biased towards the "absolutely no corporal punishment ever" viewpoint because that is the prevailing opinion in your country and also the law) For the most part the people who you are saying this to are reasonable people who love their children, and use restraint, and do not physically or mentally harm their children. Saying things like "how can we decide between what is ok and what is too much?" Uhh....we can decide because we are human beings and can make judgements based on a situation and what we believe is right. If there is a dispute we turn to the law/community/etc. I'd like to hear some examples of how you would discipline a 5 year old. Did you know that research suggests that TIME OUT (fucking time out bros) of longer than 1 minute for 5 year olds are severely damaging? I do not think that corporal punishment should be the automatic choice or the only option. Of course these people also use time outs, or they remove privileges (TV/Games/etc), or they talk sternly, but they also are not opposed to a spank. If you actually believe that 1 time slap on the bottom accompanied by a clear explanation of what was done wrong is going to permanently damage your child...well I know that you are not correct. In the context of a loving relationship and accompanied by proper parenting techniques corporal punishment is totally appropriate. And if you decide not to that's ok too, but all this "WOW YOU BARBARIAN AMERICANS, HOLDING BACK SOCIETY." Seriously, so BM ridiculous. well, i had been growing up in a more corporal punishment family and it has made me a lot more introvert and shy compared to the "not punishing" families. It is much harder to build up confidence and yes, it does leave some scar mentally, because parents are the ones that will feed you and keep you alive at that age, when you have to live under them even if it means you might get kicked out or punished for doing whatever you like, it is huge. and the line I bolded, it isn't correct. Ethics alone don't make the decision correct, if it is what you believed to be right, you can have poor ethics, it could be society unacceptable. | ||
Bigtony
United States1606 Posts
On November 04 2011 12:34 BoX wrote: Bigtony, if you want to count GB as part of America, then you've got a whole new thing coming. The USA was founded by colonists from another country. We didn't take their collective knowledge and written history with us, bro. If any of you is intelligent and enlightened enough to write a set of laws that should be put into effect immediately, then please do so. Otherwise, the evolution of laws will continue its course until the weak and ineffective are eliminated and replaced with superior ones. This of course means that idiotic laws/exceptions will remain until something significant can highlight its inadequacies. Shrug. This is the darker side of how the "system" seems to work. Either that or I'm slightly too intoxicated to be posting. Meh. Uh...the initial colonists of America were for the most part British, with British customs, laws, and cultures. Overtime they distinguished themselves from them, but there is no denying that they have their origins there. The first colonists read British books when they could, paid taxes to the King, and considered themselves British, not "American." Errrr...Italy just celebrated their 150th anniversary. Germany (as we know it today), unified around the same time (1880s). My knowledge of German history is not very strong, but I believe it is similar to Italy - before unification they were a loosely associated group of city states and principalities with different dialects, customs, and even religious practices. In Italy today there is still a very distinct difference between Northern and Southern culture, almost like two different countries. France has been unified as a country for much longer than that, but they are also on the "5th republic," so they have also gone through some very drastic changes both societal and governmental in just the last 150 years. America was colonized in the early 1600s, and the values of those first settlers and the other European immigrants that followed them still have influence today. Up until as late as 1780 many "Americans" still considered themselves to be "British." Other than the American Revolution there was no huge event that jumpstarted massive societal change, except perhaps the civil war but even that provided a rather gradual and slow social change. This is a gross oversimplification of the last 300 years but, I think the point stands. edit - I only point this out because the initial point was about how other countries have laws that are much older and more developed etc, when in reality their constitutions and similar documents and the laws associated with them are not that old. | ||
Krikkitone
United States1451 Posts
On November 04 2011 12:41 Steveling wrote: I'll regret asking, but care to explain in what manner of counting is the US older. US founded in the late 1700's Germany, Italy founded in the mid-late 1800's (with most recent violent changes of government, not just leadership but government, in the mid-early 1900s) France.. well here you can say they were founded earlier ~ 900s to 1200s but they also had violent changes of government in the mid-early 1900s If you stretch your laws back farther past violent changes of government, well US law is derived from English law which goes back at least as far as German or French law. | ||
Irave
United States9965 Posts
On November 04 2011 12:29 Aruno wrote: "but hovering it over her fathers head as a blackmail is just terrible", Incorrect. If it was Blackmail, It would be like her threatening to release the video to the public unless she was given some kind of benefit( like a stack of money). Her statement said she snapped one day after an angry phone call with her father. Thus it was a revenge action. "Afraid of what the people would think if she released it sooner is a bit odd." - This assuming you know why she waited. It might of been to protect also her mother. Or just the fear of what would happen to her, had she still be living under her fathers house at the time. God, I'm Mr.Semantics at times. I shouldn't even care, it's Friday and I'm drinking a beer. You forget that she was still continuing to live with her father even after her parents divorced. According to her father he was getting tired of supporting her fully after she dropped out of classes. Shortly after she releases the video. After digging it is quite possible to see that she has in fact did that. So it is technically blackmail, she said if you do this, I'll ruin your life. Now here we are with the video released. So your arguments aren't very valid at this point, have another beer. | ||
Rarak
Australia631 Posts
On November 04 2011 12:34 BoX wrote: Bigtony, if you want to count GB as part of America, then you've got a whole new thing coming. The USA was founded by colonists from another country. We didn't take their collective knowledge and written history with us, bro. If any of you is intelligent and enlightened enough to write a set of laws that should be put into effect immediately, then please do so. Otherwise, the evolution of laws will continue its course until the weak and ineffective are eliminated and replaced with superior ones. This of course means that idiotic laws/exceptions will remain until something significant can highlight its inadequacies. Shrug. This is the darker side of how the "system" seems to work. Either that or I'm slightly too intoxicated to be posting. Meh. I agree with most of this. E.g. in NZ it recently became illegal to hit kids aswell. Lots of muslim countries are slowly giving women more rights etc. The US is just behind the times on this point, but I'm sure they will get there eventually (possibly after they finish executing people). I know most states don't allow that.. but its still there. | ||
durza
United States667 Posts
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Krikkitone
United States1451 Posts
On November 04 2011 13:00 Rarak wrote: I agree with most of this. E.g. in NZ it recently became illegal to hit kids aswell. Lots of muslim countries are slowly giving women more rights etc. The US is just behind the times on this point, but I'm sure they will get there eventually (possibly after they finish executing people). I know most states don't allow that.. but its still there. Laws don't necessarily get replaced with "better" laws. In a democracy, they get replaced with more popular laws, but that doesn't mean they are better. (especially because the laws themselves can influence the popularity of other laws) | ||
Geosensation
United States256 Posts
On November 04 2011 12:34 BoX wrote: Bigtony, if you want to count GB as part of America, then you've got a whole new thing coming. The USA was founded by colonists from another country. We didn't take their collective knowledge and written history with us, bro. If any of you is intelligent and enlightened enough to write a set of laws that should be put into effect immediately, then please do so. Otherwise, the evolution of laws will continue its course until the weak and ineffective are eliminated and replaced with superior ones. This of course means that idiotic laws/exceptions will remain until something significant can highlight its inadequacies. Shrug. This is the darker side of how the "system" seems to work. Either that or I'm slightly too intoxicated to be posting. Meh. American common law derives from the common law of England so actually you couldn't be more wrong. We DID take their collective knowledge and written history with us and we built off of it. We continue to do so to this day. In some cases we even keep certain laws in place which GB has since gotten rid of mostly (Statute of Frauds). It's really surprising how many British cases are in my Contracts casebook! | ||
kash2k
139 Posts
It's tiring to constantly try to find even ground with someone who can't get their point across without shouting or fighting - should just get rid of their DNA. Girls....I don't care...I was tough never to be mean to girl, cause they are future mothers. I guess there is some relationship between how these girls are brought up and what kind of mothers they become. | ||
metbull
United States404 Posts
On November 04 2011 10:57 tokicheese wrote: People like you make me a sad panda. 1# There has been evidence throughout the thread that shows that corporal punishment is less effective has has a chance to do harm. So why the fuck would you use a method that can only hope to be at par and not exceed and can harm the child... Even if someone does provide evidence you will just claim it interferes with your right to raise your child, culture and religion. 2# It's against the law so it is therefore bad. This just makes me want to die inside. Woman couldn't vote it's against the law this is bad!! A woman needs to have acid thrown on her if she disgraces her family it is legal therefore okay. Use your fucking brain instead of just hiding behind laws that may or may not be moral. 3# Because your a upset parent who is being told he is wrong with scientific evidence. Let me guess you also thing evolution is wrong too and that creationism is the shit. 4# It was an example of how fucked up morality regarding the legal system is I don't think he realized how badly you would need to be spoon fed these things since most people can make connections. 5# Agree. He does have a good point though. Why does some one who does literally nothing for society other than look pretty make so much more than someone who saves countless lives? 6# Agree but why do you have to hit them to make a point. Most of the European countries have done this for a long time and they are not in a state of anarchy and chaos. 7#" Hey let me not give my child a blood transfusion because it is against my religion" Religious Person. "Go fuck yourself" The government when it intervenes for the child's health and safety. 8# Where is the line drawn from child abuse/punishment? If Corporal punishment can cause harm to the child does it not fall under the abuse category? 9# lolwut? What are you trying to say here? You claim he is 13 and being beaten by his parents with zero evidence at all. You resorted to name calling. and yet you call him immature. Give your head a shake and grow up. I have never been hit by my parents once and I am in post secondary working a full time job working my ass off. Like the masses of people in Europe and all over North America and elsewhere. You have made me lose so much faith in humanity. Your a sad excuse for a father and a human being. Try to not rely on hitting a child to make a point. Your a full grown man hitting a small boy/girl who is your own blood for fuck sake use your vast knowledge you claim to have at your disposal like so many other parents have been doing. The fact this is even an argument with some people makes my head spin... If you are basing your faith in humanity on a thread on the internet you are severely debasing yourself. And I am sorry for you. You claim I am a grown man hitting my child, I assure you I am not. Want to know how it goes in my house? My child does something severe enough to warrant a spanking. There are very few things that warrant this. I don't want to spank my child, I get no pleasure from it. Like I want to see my child in pain. But I do know the temperament and demeanor of this particular child. And non-physical punishment does not deter the child, it never seems to have an effect on her. So my spouse and I sit down and decide a punishment together. We then sit down with our child and explain what happened and that she is going to be spanked. Both my spouse and I are in the room when she is spanked, and afterwards we talk with our child about why we had to punish her and that we don't want to but we have to teach her that what she did was wrong. Sounds like my methods are archaic and "barbaric" for you? But my wife and I instruct my child with love and in a loving manner. What's funny is that you accuse me of being a sad excuse for a father; but I have Father's Day cards and a coffee mug. Your entitled to your opinion on how to raise your children, I'm not telling you how to raise your future children. | ||
Bigtony
United States1606 Posts
So a society doesn't have the right to determine what kind of punishments are appropriate for criminals either? Through due process, communities/states/governments can take away the rights of individuals as punishment (in my eyes the extreme of your situation is that all forms of punishment are inhumane), even the right to live. At some point I don't think that society moves forward and makes better rules. The law does not make us better, it just highlights our flaws and gives us a mechanism for dealing with them. I think at some point we stop taking responsibility and start trying to legal mojo or rationalize our way away from the truth. I don't believe there is a perfect system of government or form of society where all our problems will go away and the majority of crime will cease. | ||
Geosensation
United States256 Posts
On November 04 2011 13:07 kash2k wrote: Males in general (on the streets or in the senate), who can't avoid such behavior should have their balls cut off. I though we were trying to become more intelligent and considerate rather than back to stick and stones. It's tiring to constantly try to find even ground with someone who can't get their point across without shouting or fighting - should just get rid of their DNA. Girls....I don't care...I was tough never to be mean to girl, cause they are future mothers. I guess there is some relationship between how these girls are brought up and what kind of mothers they become. You are pro-castration and eugenics, yet anti-corporal punishment. What a strange set of beliefs you hold. I would consider you worse than the judge if you implemented either of these beliefs. | ||
kash2k
139 Posts
On November 04 2011 13:11 Geosensation wrote: You are pro-castration and eugenics, yet anti-corporal punishment. What a strange set of beliefs you hold. I would consider you worse than the judge if you implemented either of these beliefs. Ohh...its not a belief, it's just a general thoughts regarding this discussion. I find the couple post above, where father explains how they do it in their house and that sometimes they do have to spank their daughter is perfectly reasonable. Understanding extremes and common sense is something I would love to see in more and more people. And as bold as my previous post was, no I wouldn't chop that judge's balls off or set him on fire after all that happened. I hope he can get out a better man from this and that some people will learn and prevent such outburst from happening. But as our sad history shows, people seems to have hard time learning from past mistakes. Ehhhhh... | ||
Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On November 04 2011 12:54 Krikkitone wrote: US founded in the late 1700's Germany, Italy founded in the mid-late 1800's (with most recent violent changes of government, not just leadership but government, in the mid-early 1900s) France.. well here you can say they were founded earlier ~ 900s to 1200s but they also had violent changes of government in the mid-early 1900s If you stretch your laws back farther past violent changes of government, well US law is derived from English law which goes back at least as far as German or French law. Italy founded in the mid-late 1800's? Mind=blown. By your logic you could also say that my country was founded around the early 1830's after the four century long Ottoman occupation ended. While we exist as a defined nation for quite a few millenia. | ||
gayfius173
48 Posts
1). Spanking a child does not cause a child to become violent, a psychopath, a murder, rapist, etc, you name it, it is not the cause. Plenty of psychopaths were not spanked as children and still ended up nuts. A lot of this probably could have been avoided had their parents actually disciplined them as a child instead of let them do w/e the hell they wanted. I don't need to site a source for this because there's plenty of convicted killers and other crazy people in the world (many of which grow up without a father or discipline at all) who you can look at and see this for yourself. 2). I was raised and I got spanked if I was bad. At 22 now, I hold no ill will towards my father at all. Infact, earlier this year I even said to him I wish that he would of been more strict with me and hadn't let my mom spoil me how she did, because I would of learned better values of discipline and better self control. 3). Learning is a painful experience. If you are a child and you touch your hand to a hot stove, what happens? You get burned. It hurts. It damages your body a lot worse than a spanking does. Fact: pain is the greatest teacher of all. To learn not to do something, you have to experience a painful reaction to it. This goes from drugs to everyday life lessons. Pain teaches. 4). I don't think that beating a child who has epileptical palsy, or whatever the fuck this girl has, is a good method of punishment. There are some cases where spanking is not the right act. A disabled kid should not be spanked. It will do more harm than good. There are other methods to deal with that situation. A strong bullheaded healthy kid however, for him a spanking would be just fine. 5). Pretty much the reason that there's all this 'omg violence towards children' shit going around is because a lot of people have grown into this 'it's ok to be the way you are no one should say anything to you/take a pill to fix it' mentality. Why do you think there's so much young gang violence in the world? Why do you think theres so many crazy people commiting acts of violence when they get older? It's not because they were spanked I'll tell you that much. It's because they had shitty parents who didn't discipline them or teach them respect and let them do w/e the fuck they wanted so they grow up thinking they can do w/e the fuck they want. 6). It's really not anyone's right to get involved in someone else's life unless said person is actually seriously harming someone. "mental harm' in most cases is not a good reason, considering that, the reason people have mental issues is in the first place is they are taught its ok to have them rather than be taught that its not ok, and the only person who is going to fix a mental problem is the person changing their damn outlook on life (obviously this does not included brain defects that physically stop someone from changing their outlook). That is all. Incoming flame's from incompetent kids. | ||
Durlav
Hong Kong4 Posts
The internet fights back. | ||
RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On November 04 2011 15:09 gayfius173 wrote: The amount of simple stupidness and blind idiocy that is in this thread is amazing. I'm going to post a few simple things and they will probably won't even get read in completion because people tend to read only what they want to see and flame away, too incompetent to realize what they're saying is dumb, but here goes. 1). Spanking a child does not cause a child to become violent, a psychopath, a murder, rapist, etc, you name it, it is not the cause. Plenty of psychopaths were not spanked as children and still ended up nuts. A lot of this probably could have been avoided had their parents actually disciplined them as a child instead of let them do w/e the hell they wanted. I don't need to site a source for this because there's plenty of convicted killers and other crazy people in the world (many of which grow up without a father or discipline at all) who you can look at and see this for yourself. 2). I was raised and I got spanked if I was bad. At 22 now, I hold no ill will towards my father at all. Infact, earlier this year I even said to him I wish that he would of been more strict with me and hadn't let my mom spoil me how she did, because I would of learned better values of discipline and better self control. 3). Learning is a painful experience. If you are a child and you touch your hand to a hot stove, what happens? You get burned. It hurts. It damages your body a lot worse than a spanking does. Fact: pain is the greatest teacher of all. To learn not to do something, you have to experience a painful reaction to it. This goes from drugs to everyday life lessons. Pain teaches. 4). I don't think that beating a child who has epileptical palsy, or whatever the fuck this girl has, is a good method of punishment. There are some cases where spanking is not the right act. A disabled kid should not be spanked. It will do more harm than good. There are other methods to deal with that situation. A strong bullheaded healthy kid however, for him a spanking would be just fine. 5). Pretty much the reason that there's all this 'omg violence towards children' shit going around is because a lot of people have grown into this 'it's ok to be the way you are no one should say anything to you/take a pill to fix it' mentality. Why do you think there's so much young gang violence in the world? Why do you think theres so many crazy people commiting acts of violence when they get older? It's not because they were spanked I'll tell you that much. It's because they had shitty parents who didn't discipline them or teach them respect and let them do w/e the fuck they wanted so they grow up thinking they can do w/e the fuck they want. 6). It's really not anyone's right to get involved in someone else's life unless said person is actually seriously harming someone. "mental harm' in most cases is not a good reason, considering that, the reason people have mental issues is in the first place is they are taught its ok to have them rather than be taught that its not ok, and the only person who is going to fix a mental problem is the person changing their damn outlook on life (obviously this does not included brain defects that physically stop someone from changing their outlook). That is all. Incoming flame's from incompetent kids. Good post, tolerance and understanding is always the way towards a better outcome, but when political correctness and sycophantic caterings gets in the way of common sense then I say just get off that high horse. Being of Asian descend, I have been beaten on numerous occasions. However as I grow up and start to make sense of things, I do not blame my parents nor my grandparents (who I respect more, despite how they beat me more often ), even though I probably won't use the same methods. I know where they are coming from, ultimately they had good intentions, with mixed results. I believe that raising a child has to be catered to each child's unique situation. You can't always apply the same methods/principles on everyone in every case. | ||
Lann555
Netherlands5173 Posts
On November 04 2011 12:41 Steveling wrote: I'll regret asking, but care to explain in what manner of counting is the US older. Germany didn't technically exist until....after WW1 I think. Before that it was called the Weimar Republic. Italy as a country didn't exist until like 1850. Throughout the middle-ages it consisted of a number of city-states. It was Napoleon who conquered part of it and turned it into the kingdom of Italy. France I dunno. It's quite old actually :D | ||
nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
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