|
On March 07 2012 00:50 naggerNZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:46 solidbebe wrote:On March 07 2012 00:44 naggerNZ wrote:On March 07 2012 00:42 solidbebe wrote:On March 07 2012 00:37 XxMulexX wrote: Obesity has a hell of a lot to do with genetics and metabolism. We really seem to enjoy pinning the responsibility on the obese people themselves, but everyone knows a few people who are very active and eat decently and yet seem to never be able to completely shed that extra weight. Sorry but that is complete bullshit, it is just an excuse for fat people that are trying to lose weight, but keep giving in to eating the food they want. If you are on a nutritionally perfect diet and exercise regularly and efficiently on top of that, you will not be fat. And don't blame it on some medical condition either because the people that get fat through a condition or the medicines they have to take for said condition are really too few in number to be of any significance. There are countless medical studies that have found genetic and biological markers of pre-disposition to obesity, and they're not uncommon by any means. Yes great, you're more likely to get obese or you get obese faster when you have a bad diet and you don't exercise. But your genetics can't do shit to you if you have a nutritionally perfect diet and regularly exercise on top of that. Nutritionally perfect diet? Are you actually serious? Almost no one has a nutritionally perfect diet. So? That is irrelevant to the argument.
|
On March 07 2012 00:40 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 07 2012 00:31 naggerNZ wrote:On March 07 2012 00:29 JackDino wrote:On March 06 2012 22:27 Rassy wrote: Both are (predominantly, in the case of obesity) self-choice issues
I dont know about obesity but smoking is definatly not 100% a self-choice. There are manny people who would love to quit smoking but who are somehow unable to because the adiction is to strong for them.
Here in the netherlands they did the same things to combat obesity as they did to combat smoking. Educational advertisements on tv and newspapers, smoking did get alot more attention though, campaigns against obesity are rare Beside that smoking has been banned from public and work places and taxes on it are increasing all the time. Smoking is 100% a self-choice unless someone chained you and forced a smoke in your mouth over and over. If people want to eat and be fat, that's their choice. If people want to smoke, that's their choice. Smoking annoys others tho, obesity doesn't. Talking on your cellphone annoys others. Whistling annoys others. Threads like these are evidence that there are plenty of people who take personal offense at the existence of fat people. Seriously? Those are your analogies to cancerous drugs and being unhealthy? If I'm sitting on a bench in a park and someone sits down next to me and start screaming in their cellphone about annoying shit, what do I do? I leave. He is allowed to sit there and talk, but it pisses me off, so I switch my location. What can you do in a similar situation with a smoker? Oh, how about the exact same thing? The cause of the situations might be different, the solution is the same.
And yet magically, people don't start to choke or develop cancer by merely sitting next to a jerk on a cellphone or a constant whistler. So I guess the analogy only stops at "People can be jerks" and it's not really a good analogy for the actual substances of what the people are doing, huh?
|
As soon as the OP said "self-choice issue," I knew it would take some real effort to prevent the "Free Will" thread from spilling over into this one.
|
On March 07 2012 00:53 naggerNZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:52 visual77 wrote:On March 07 2012 00:46 henkel wrote: it always brings a huge smile to my face when ex-smokers get completely 100% anti smoking and whine about second hand smoking while walking outside in a medium or big city. It somehow feels so stupid, with fine dust and the hundreds of other pollutions in the air. Guess it has something to do with the attitude of "wow look at me i stopped smoking now i have to right to demonise my former peers". So to all of them congrats on kicking that habit and do what ever you need to do to feel good about yourself.
Maybe they get that way because, having seen both sides, they decided that smoking is pretty pointless and self destructive? What side have they seen that smokers haven't? I wasn't born with a cigarette in my mouth.
Mindless nicotine zombie, etc., etc.
|
On March 07 2012 00:54 lundell100 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:50 naggerNZ wrote:On March 07 2012 00:46 solidbebe wrote:On March 07 2012 00:44 naggerNZ wrote:On March 07 2012 00:42 solidbebe wrote:On March 07 2012 00:37 XxMulexX wrote: Obesity has a hell of a lot to do with genetics and metabolism. We really seem to enjoy pinning the responsibility on the obese people themselves, but everyone knows a few people who are very active and eat decently and yet seem to never be able to completely shed that extra weight. Sorry but that is complete bullshit, it is just an excuse for fat people that are trying to lose weight, but keep giving in to eating the food they want. If you are on a nutritionally perfect diet and exercise regularly and efficiently on top of that, you will not be fat. And don't blame it on some medical condition either because the people that get fat through a condition or the medicines they have to take for said condition are really too few in number to be of any significance. There are countless medical studies that have found genetic and biological markers of pre-disposition to obesity, and they're not uncommon by any means. Yes great, you're more likely to get obese or you get obese faster when you have a bad diet and you don't exercise. But your genetics can't do shit to you if you have a nutritionally perfect diet and regularly exercise on top of that. Nutritionally perfect diet? Are you actually serious? Almost no one has a nutritionally perfect diet. So? That is irrelevant to the argument.
Yes it is. Saying that predisposition is irrelevant as to whether you're obese or not because simply having a perfect diet and exercising lots will stop you from being overweight is ridiculous. The fact is, two people can have very similar diets and lifestyles, but purely by luck of genetics, one will be overweight and one won't. That's relevant to the discussion.
|
On March 07 2012 00:52 visual77 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:46 henkel wrote: it always brings a huge smile to my face when ex-smokers get completely 100% anti smoking and whine about second hand smoking while walking outside in a medium or big city. It somehow feels so stupid, with fine dust and the hundreds of other pollutions in the air. Guess it has something to do with the attitude of "wow look at me i stopped smoking now i have to right to demonise my former peers". So to all of them congrats on kicking that habit and do what ever you need to do to feel good about yourself.
Maybe they get that way because, having seen both sides, they decided that smoking is pretty pointless and self destructive?
By that logic wouldn't all ex-smokers be that way?
|
On March 07 2012 00:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:40 Tobberoth wrote:On March 07 2012 00:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 07 2012 00:31 naggerNZ wrote:On March 07 2012 00:29 JackDino wrote:On March 06 2012 22:27 Rassy wrote: Both are (predominantly, in the case of obesity) self-choice issues
I dont know about obesity but smoking is definatly not 100% a self-choice. There are manny people who would love to quit smoking but who are somehow unable to because the adiction is to strong for them.
Here in the netherlands they did the same things to combat obesity as they did to combat smoking. Educational advertisements on tv and newspapers, smoking did get alot more attention though, campaigns against obesity are rare Beside that smoking has been banned from public and work places and taxes on it are increasing all the time. Smoking is 100% a self-choice unless someone chained you and forced a smoke in your mouth over and over. If people want to eat and be fat, that's their choice. If people want to smoke, that's their choice. Smoking annoys others tho, obesity doesn't. Talking on your cellphone annoys others. Whistling annoys others. Threads like these are evidence that there are plenty of people who take personal offense at the existence of fat people. Seriously? Those are your analogies to cancerous drugs and being unhealthy? If I'm sitting on a bench in a park and someone sits down next to me and start screaming in their cellphone about annoying shit, what do I do? I leave. He is allowed to sit there and talk, but it pisses me off, so I switch my location. What can you do in a similar situation with a smoker? Oh, how about the exact same thing? The cause of the situations might be different, the solution is the same. And yet magically, people don't start to choke or develop cancer by merely sitting next to a jerk on a cellphone or a constant whistler. So I guess the analogy only stops at "People can be jerks" and it's not really a good analogy for the actual substances of what the people are doing, huh?
No one has ever gotten cancer from sitting next to a smoker on a park bench. You, like so many other people, have not read the research of passive smoking. YOU CANNOT GET CANCER FROM NON RESIDENTIAL EXPOSURE TO SECOND HAND SMOKE! THIS IS A FACT!
|
On March 07 2012 00:57 henkel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:52 visual77 wrote:On March 07 2012 00:46 henkel wrote: it always brings a huge smile to my face when ex-smokers get completely 100% anti smoking and whine about second hand smoking while walking outside in a medium or big city. It somehow feels so stupid, with fine dust and the hundreds of other pollutions in the air. Guess it has something to do with the attitude of "wow look at me i stopped smoking now i have to right to demonise my former peers". So to all of them congrats on kicking that habit and do what ever you need to do to feel good about yourself.
Maybe they get that way because, having seen both sides, they decided that smoking is pretty pointless and self destructive? By that logic wouldn't all ex-smokers be that way?
I think most ex-smokers do tend to be pretty anti-smoking. Not all are very pushy about it or anything like that, but I don't think many who have quit are still happy with people they love smoking.
|
On March 07 2012 00:57 naggerNZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:54 lundell100 wrote:On March 07 2012 00:50 naggerNZ wrote:On March 07 2012 00:46 solidbebe wrote:On March 07 2012 00:44 naggerNZ wrote:On March 07 2012 00:42 solidbebe wrote:On March 07 2012 00:37 XxMulexX wrote: Obesity has a hell of a lot to do with genetics and metabolism. We really seem to enjoy pinning the responsibility on the obese people themselves, but everyone knows a few people who are very active and eat decently and yet seem to never be able to completely shed that extra weight. Sorry but that is complete bullshit, it is just an excuse for fat people that are trying to lose weight, but keep giving in to eating the food they want. If you are on a nutritionally perfect diet and exercise regularly and efficiently on top of that, you will not be fat. And don't blame it on some medical condition either because the people that get fat through a condition or the medicines they have to take for said condition are really too few in number to be of any significance. There are countless medical studies that have found genetic and biological markers of pre-disposition to obesity, and they're not uncommon by any means. Yes great, you're more likely to get obese or you get obese faster when you have a bad diet and you don't exercise. But your genetics can't do shit to you if you have a nutritionally perfect diet and regularly exercise on top of that. Nutritionally perfect diet? Are you actually serious? Almost no one has a nutritionally perfect diet. So? That is irrelevant to the argument. Yes it is. Saying that predisposition is irrelevant as to whether you're obese or not because simply having a perfect diet and exercising lots will stop you from being overweight is ridiculous. The fact is, two people can have very similar diets and lifestyles, but purely by luck of genetics, one will be overweight and one won't. That's relevant to the discussion. And you have facts to prove that statement? Show me.
|
On March 07 2012 00:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:40 Tobberoth wrote:On March 07 2012 00:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 07 2012 00:31 naggerNZ wrote:On March 07 2012 00:29 JackDino wrote:On March 06 2012 22:27 Rassy wrote: Both are (predominantly, in the case of obesity) self-choice issues
I dont know about obesity but smoking is definatly not 100% a self-choice. There are manny people who would love to quit smoking but who are somehow unable to because the adiction is to strong for them.
Here in the netherlands they did the same things to combat obesity as they did to combat smoking. Educational advertisements on tv and newspapers, smoking did get alot more attention though, campaigns against obesity are rare Beside that smoking has been banned from public and work places and taxes on it are increasing all the time. Smoking is 100% a self-choice unless someone chained you and forced a smoke in your mouth over and over. If people want to eat and be fat, that's their choice. If people want to smoke, that's their choice. Smoking annoys others tho, obesity doesn't. Talking on your cellphone annoys others. Whistling annoys others. Threads like these are evidence that there are plenty of people who take personal offense at the existence of fat people. Seriously? Those are your analogies to cancerous drugs and being unhealthy? If I'm sitting on a bench in a park and someone sits down next to me and start screaming in their cellphone about annoying shit, what do I do? I leave. He is allowed to sit there and talk, but it pisses me off, so I switch my location. What can you do in a similar situation with a smoker? Oh, how about the exact same thing? The cause of the situations might be different, the solution is the same. And yet magically, people don't start to choke or develop cancer by merely sitting next to a jerk on a cellphone or a constant whistler. So I guess the analogy only stops at "People can be jerks" and it's not really a good analogy for the actual substances of what the people are doing, huh? So? There's 0 conclusive proof that passive smoking leads to cancer, so your argument is as paper thin as me saying the guy with the cellphone is 1) giving me cancer with his cellphones electromagnetic fields 2) ruining my hearing with his screaming 3) destroying my mental health with his annoying shit.
If you dislike a situation, it's up to you to leave it.
|
EDIT: guy above me said same thing lol.
On March 07 2012 00:58 visual77 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:57 henkel wrote:On March 07 2012 00:52 visual77 wrote:On March 07 2012 00:46 henkel wrote: it always brings a huge smile to my face when ex-smokers get completely 100% anti smoking and whine about second hand smoking while walking outside in a medium or big city. It somehow feels so stupid, with fine dust and the hundreds of other pollutions in the air. Guess it has something to do with the attitude of "wow look at me i stopped smoking now i have to right to demonise my former peers". So to all of them congrats on kicking that habit and do what ever you need to do to feel good about yourself.
Maybe they get that way because, having seen both sides, they decided that smoking is pretty pointless and self destructive? By that logic wouldn't all ex-smokers be that way? I think most ex-smokers do tend to be pretty anti-smoking. Not all are very pushy about it or anything like that, but I don't think many who have quit are still happy with people they love smoking.
and there you get my point, the pushy part is the main issue. I play sports at least 3 times a week does that give me the right to annoy people who don't?
|
On March 07 2012 00:59 lundell100 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:57 naggerNZ wrote:On March 07 2012 00:54 lundell100 wrote:On March 07 2012 00:50 naggerNZ wrote:On March 07 2012 00:46 solidbebe wrote:On March 07 2012 00:44 naggerNZ wrote:On March 07 2012 00:42 solidbebe wrote:On March 07 2012 00:37 XxMulexX wrote: Obesity has a hell of a lot to do with genetics and metabolism. We really seem to enjoy pinning the responsibility on the obese people themselves, but everyone knows a few people who are very active and eat decently and yet seem to never be able to completely shed that extra weight. Sorry but that is complete bullshit, it is just an excuse for fat people that are trying to lose weight, but keep giving in to eating the food they want. If you are on a nutritionally perfect diet and exercise regularly and efficiently on top of that, you will not be fat. And don't blame it on some medical condition either because the people that get fat through a condition or the medicines they have to take for said condition are really too few in number to be of any significance. There are countless medical studies that have found genetic and biological markers of pre-disposition to obesity, and they're not uncommon by any means. Yes great, you're more likely to get obese or you get obese faster when you have a bad diet and you don't exercise. But your genetics can't do shit to you if you have a nutritionally perfect diet and regularly exercise on top of that. Nutritionally perfect diet? Are you actually serious? Almost no one has a nutritionally perfect diet. So? That is irrelevant to the argument. Yes it is. Saying that predisposition is irrelevant as to whether you're obese or not because simply having a perfect diet and exercising lots will stop you from being overweight is ridiculous. The fact is, two people can have very similar diets and lifestyles, but purely by luck of genetics, one will be overweight and one won't. That's relevant to the discussion. And you have facts to prove that statement? Show me.
http://scholar.google.co.nz/scholar?q=predisposition to obesity&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=fjRWT4yeMq2UiAfDvOXmCA&ved=0CCIQgQMwAA
|
On March 06 2012 23:52 Roe wrote: Too often smokers and pro-smokers hide behind the argument that it's their personal choice. That they should be free to do whatever they want with themselves. Well guess what, the smoke isn't going to just effect you. Whenever you light up you increase the chances everyone around you gets cancer among other diseases. In this way smoking and obesity are different. I'm not going to be harmed by some fat guy walking next to me. And yes, I can judge as a bad person for smoking. You're causing unnecessary and voluntary physical harm to everyone around you.
So everyone should stop buying apple stuff since foxconn treats their workers like crap right? what about other sweat shop labels? why stop just at smoking, what about job loss since overseas workers? it effects everyone how the global market moves right? what if a "fat" person falls on you he shouldn't be fat right because he could fall and hurt people around him? but if he stops buying mass burgers then their not going to need more employees at fast food joints and someones going to lose a job due to company resizing so the "fat" guy should of thought of that?
Everything you do and say in life can harm/help people in life i thought you might have figured that out by now, world hunger problems also causing unnecessary and voluntary physical harm to everyone around you because in your own words we could fix it ..... so why don't we?
|
In Australia: - Tobacco products are taxed very highly. - There is alot of anti-smoking advertising, the packs have quite graphic pictures. - Almost everywhere are smoke free zones.
|
Smoking feels good? I don't know I never tried, but it seems to me that it smells like the worst shit in the world. Guess you have to try really hard to get in love with the thousands of chemicals and toxic elements in cigarettes. At least it makes you less hungry, so that you have the illusion to loose weight, yay! Of course, when it's time to stop, fat comes back!
|
On March 07 2012 01:02 Azalie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 23:52 Roe wrote: Too often smokers and pro-smokers hide behind the argument that it's their personal choice. That they should be free to do whatever they want with themselves. Well guess what, the smoke isn't going to just effect you. Whenever you light up you increase the chances everyone around you gets cancer among other diseases. In this way smoking and obesity are different. I'm not going to be harmed by some fat guy walking next to me. And yes, I can judge as a bad person for smoking. You're causing unnecessary and voluntary physical harm to everyone around you. So everyone should stop buying apple stuff since foxconn treats their workers like crap right? what about other sweat shop labels? why stop just at smoking, what about job loss since overseas workers? it effects everyone how the global market moves right? what if a "fat" person falls on you he shouldn't be fat right because he could fall and hurt people around him? but if he stops buying mass burgers then their not going to need more employees at fast food joints and someones going to lose a job due to company resizing so the "fat" guy should of thought of that? Everything you do and say in life can harm/help people in life i thought you might have figured that out by now, world hunger problems also causing unnecessary and voluntary physical harm to everyone around you because in your own words we could fix it ..... so why don't we? I agree with you completely. We should do our best to avoid or punish those who would cause harm and degrade the life of others. Some actions are more harmful than others, such as smoking.
|
On March 07 2012 01:00 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 07 2012 00:40 Tobberoth wrote:On March 07 2012 00:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 07 2012 00:31 naggerNZ wrote:On March 07 2012 00:29 JackDino wrote:On March 06 2012 22:27 Rassy wrote: Both are (predominantly, in the case of obesity) self-choice issues
I dont know about obesity but smoking is definatly not 100% a self-choice. There are manny people who would love to quit smoking but who are somehow unable to because the adiction is to strong for them.
Here in the netherlands they did the same things to combat obesity as they did to combat smoking. Educational advertisements on tv and newspapers, smoking did get alot more attention though, campaigns against obesity are rare Beside that smoking has been banned from public and work places and taxes on it are increasing all the time. Smoking is 100% a self-choice unless someone chained you and forced a smoke in your mouth over and over. If people want to eat and be fat, that's their choice. If people want to smoke, that's their choice. Smoking annoys others tho, obesity doesn't. Talking on your cellphone annoys others. Whistling annoys others. Threads like these are evidence that there are plenty of people who take personal offense at the existence of fat people. Seriously? Those are your analogies to cancerous drugs and being unhealthy? If I'm sitting on a bench in a park and someone sits down next to me and start screaming in their cellphone about annoying shit, what do I do? I leave. He is allowed to sit there and talk, but it pisses me off, so I switch my location. What can you do in a similar situation with a smoker? Oh, how about the exact same thing? The cause of the situations might be different, the solution is the same. And yet magically, people don't start to choke or develop cancer by merely sitting next to a jerk on a cellphone or a constant whistler. So I guess the analogy only stops at "People can be jerks" and it's not really a good analogy for the actual substances of what the people are doing, huh? So? There's 0 conclusive proof that passive smoking leads to cancer, so your argument is as paper thin as me saying the guy with the cellphone is 1) giving me cancer with his cellphones electromagnetic fields 2) ruining my hearing with his screaming 3) destroying my mental health with his annoying shit. If you dislike a situation, it's up to you to leave it.
What are you talking about? There's 0 conclusive proof?
American Cancer Society: http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerCauses/TobaccoCancer/secondhand-smoke
National Cancer Institute: http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Tobacco/ETS
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/secondhand_smoke/general_facts/index.htm
Seriously, at least do a fucking Google search before you make such ridiculous claims. I know kindergarteners who know that cigarettes are bad for you x.x How do you not know this yet? And someone earlier had posted that we don't need to be reminded of the problems that cigarettes cause... jesus.
And for what it's worth, if someone else intrudes into an environment and changes the atmosphere, they're the ones that should leave, because they're the ones screwing it up. I'm quite thankful that many places tell smokers to smoke outside the building. Do what you want with your own body, but leave me out of it. I shouldn't be the one who has to go away.
|
On March 07 2012 01:05 Azzur wrote: In Australia: - Tobacco products are taxed very highly. - There is alot of anti-smoking advertising, the packs have quite graphic pictures. - Almost everywhere are smoke free zones. "Let's make it more expensive to do it, let's make it more shameful to do it, let's make it more difficult to do it." Makes me wonder why they don't just ban it outright and be done with it.
|
On March 07 2012 01:08 fofa2000 wrote: Smoking feels good? I don't know I never tried, but it seems to me that it smells like the worst shit in the world. Guess you have to try really hard to get in love with the thousands of chemicals and toxic elements in cigarettes. At least it makes you less hungry, so that you have the illusion to loose weight, yay! Of course, when it's time to stop, fat comes back!
Everyone's got different reasons for starting, and it is kind of funny how it goes from a horrible smell to a great one after you're hooked, heh.
Speaking from the perspective of someone who does smoke, a lot of us aren't really happy that we do it =/. Don't know what it's like being fat but it's probably more enjoyable than having fucked up lungs, a gross cough and an expensive habit.
|
|
|
|
|