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On March 07 2012 03:18 CyDe wrote: I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but a very large difference which can really affect the population of smokers and fat people is advertising. In the US, it is illegal to advertise cigarettes; of course, it is not illegal to advertise anti-smoking PSAs. But with food, clearly it is perfectly legal to advertise. And what are the foods that are generally advertised? Chips, soft drinks, hamburgers... you'll notice none are particularly healthy. You rarely see an advertisement for freaking tomatoes, do you?
Just a thought. Can contribute to having obesity regarded as less of an issue and more of a sensitive thing. (Many people will have no problem saying to a smoker, "Oh you have a serious unhealthy addiction" but won't dare going up to a fat person and saying, "You are fat and disgusting and need to stop eating you flobbly fuck.")
To be fair, I see more weight-watching, exercising, dieting, and healthy food (low carb this, few calories that) commercials than I do for fast food. Even restaurant commercials mention either their low prices or their options for those who are watching their health.
But I agree with you that it's not illegal to advertise fast food.
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On March 06 2012 23:45 APurpleCow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 23:26 couches wrote: In the States.
Smoking is generally demonized, but it's still socially accepted. Except around yuppie moms that are pregnant or have a newborn with them. Smoking is addictive though. Nobody is addicted to having a crap diet and being too lazy to work out. Most people don't even know what a good diet is because here we are surrounded by such terrible food.
Are you serious? I'd be willing to bet that it's just as difficult, if not more-so, to stop being obese as it is to stop smoking. Smokers get withdrawal while the obese are starving. actually the feeling of nicotine withdrawal is rather similar to hunger. The fact is both have nothing to do with nutrition, but with the addictive chemicals (fat/sugar/salt cocktails, nicotine) that cause the cravings. an obese person on a healthy diet is no more starving than a smoker going cold turkey
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The UK should start putting pictures of obscenely obese people on fast food, fatty foods, snacks just like we have pictures of horrendous teeth, fucking dirty lungs etc.
I'm also sick and tired of food I like getting reduced fat and salt content.
Fat and salt make things taste good, is it my fault that fat fuckers can't control themselves?
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On March 07 2012 00:38 naggerNZ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 00:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 07 2012 00:31 naggerNZ wrote:On March 07 2012 00:29 JackDino wrote:On March 06 2012 22:27 Rassy wrote: Both are (predominantly, in the case of obesity) self-choice issues
I dont know about obesity but smoking is definatly not 100% a self-choice. There are manny people who would love to quit smoking but who are somehow unable to because the adiction is to strong for them.
Here in the netherlands they did the same things to combat obesity as they did to combat smoking. Educational advertisements on tv and newspapers, smoking did get alot more attention though, campaigns against obesity are rare Beside that smoking has been banned from public and work places and taxes on it are increasing all the time. Smoking is 100% a self-choice unless someone chained you and forced a smoke in your mouth over and over. If people want to eat and be fat, that's their choice. If people want to smoke, that's their choice. Smoking annoys others tho, obesity doesn't. Talking on your cellphone annoys others. Whistling annoys others. Threads like these are evidence that there are plenty of people who take personal offense at the existence of fat people. Seriously? Those are your analogies to cancerous drugs and being unhealthy? "We reviewed the toxicologic, clinical, and epidemiologic evidence on the health effects of environmental tobacco smoke (ETS). For each type of exposure to environmental tobacco smoke we have sought articles in the English language reporting studies of effects on human health. Formal criteria that stressed study design, quality of execution and generalizability of results were used to select 116 scientifically admissible reports from over 2,900 articles. We concluded that: (a) there is strong evidence of an association between residential exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and both respiratory illness and reduction of lung function, and also between maternal smoking and reduced birth weight; (b) the weight of evidence is compatible with an association between active maternal smoking during pregnancy and increased infant mortality, and also between residential exposure to environmental tobacco smoke (primarily spousal smoking) and the risk of lung cancer; (c) there is evidence consistent with a relationship between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke in the workplace and respiratory symptoms, (d) the evidence is insufficient to implicate residential exposure to environmental tobacco smoke in relation to other forms of malignant disease or congenital malformations; (e) there is no evidence in the literature of an association between nonresidential exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and any form of cancer. Further studies are required to address the effects of exposure to environmental tobacco smoke, especially nonresidential exposure, in carcinogenesis and as a risk factor for atherosclerosis. Further work is also needed to improve measurement of exposure in such studies and to assess the importance of confounding factors." Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics, Faculty of Medicine, McGill University. I've yet to see any evidence that passive smoking causes cancer, or that general exposure to tobacco smoke in public causes health problems. I don't need gripping analogies. If you have a reputable study with empirical evidence that it does, please link it to me.
Dear NaggerNZ
I figured perhaps your literacy skills were lacking so I have made bold the conclusions of the study you used.
If you live with a smoker you are likely to suffer lung cancer... READ B
Yours Sincerely
Concerned second hand smoker.
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Hrm , when i was in high school, wrestlers used chewing tobacco to help them lose weight. Apparently it helped raise their metabolism.
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On March 07 2012 03:58 kobrakai wrote: The UK should start putting pictures of obscenely obese people on fast food, fatty foods, snacks just like we have pictures of horrendous teeth, fucking dirty lungs etc.
I'm also sick and tired of food I like getting reduced fat and salt content.
Fat and salt make things taste good, is it my fault that fat fuckers can't control themselves?
You mad bro?
Quit buying the food that has reduced fat/salt content, you shouldn't have a problem with that.
User was warned for using memes
User was warned for this post
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On March 06 2012 22:35 nam nam wrote: How is smoking self-choice? Yes it's not hardcore narcotics but please. Also smoking effect others to a much higher degree than someone else being obese. Also obesity is much less "self-choice" than some people like to believe. How is it not a self-choice? "Hardcore narcotics" is also a self-choice. How hard it is to quit or whatever doesn't matter at all, it's still up to you if you do it or not.
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On March 07 2012 03:07 Keitzer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 23:08 Monsen wrote:On March 06 2012 22:36 BlackJack wrote: It's hard to "tax" obesity without either discriminating or also taxing healthy people that occasionally buy a treat. The obesity thing is a lot more complex than smoking when it comes to legislating. Smoking is very black and white - you either smoke or you don't, and we're talking about a single product in tobacco. Food is something everyone eats and there are thousands of food options. You just can't target food the same way you could target tobacco. You could probably raise their health insurance rates. pretty sure that already happens in the states (don't quote me on this) but a friend of mine works for progressive, and although cars, they try to increase your rates for everything, even down to the color of your car, which btw, has NOTHING to do with how you drive, but just raw statistics... so i wouldn't be surprised if they already have increased rates. Also... smoking is TOTALLY a choice... maybe a hard habit to break, but a choice to start none-the-less... and those who say otherwise, PLEASE tell me how you were forced into smoking, or were genetically coded to start smoking... Eating is the same thing... people like it, they eat more, continuing cycle years later: obese. Now... just a little bit of willpower to go work out every day can eventually tune it down, but the same applies with smoking: have 1 less on average per week, then day, then 2 per day, etc, until you no longer need it. That worked for you? Sounds like pure fantasy to me. Never heard of anyone succeeding with such a method. Cold turkey is pretty much the only way to go.
Reads like complete ignorance tbh.
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On March 07 2012 04:42 Rygasm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 03:58 kobrakai wrote: The UK should start putting pictures of obscenely obese people on fast food, fatty foods, snacks just like we have pictures of horrendous teeth, fucking dirty lungs etc.
I'm also sick and tired of food I like getting reduced fat and salt content.
Fat and salt make things taste good, is it my fault that fat fuckers can't control themselves?
You mad bro? Quit buying the food that has reduced fat/salt content, you shouldn't have a problem with that.
No. The use of swear words does not indicate rage or madness, it's part of common speech. It is more for emphasis.
Er... you can't?
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The main problem is, that there is no way to "differentiate" properly with food ads. With smoking it's easy - prohibit ads for cigarettes/cigarres and that's it. For food, where to start and where to stop? I mean, yes you can start with McDonalds, but will you also disallow stuff like frozen fish sticks? Chips? How about sweets like chocolate.
There the problem arises that it's NOT per se unhealthy to consume chocolate/etc. once in a while. I do a lot of sport and eat chocolate every day and I'm perfectly healthy.
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On March 06 2012 23:45 APurpleCow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 23:26 couches wrote: In the States.
Smoking is generally demonized, but it's still socially accepted. Except around yuppie moms that are pregnant or have a newborn with them. Smoking is addictive though. Nobody is addicted to having a crap diet and being too lazy to work out. Most people don't even know what a good diet is because here we are surrounded by such terrible food.
Are you serious? I'd be willing to bet that it's just as difficult, if not more-so, to stop being obese as it is to stop smoking. Smokers get withdrawal while the obese are starving. Yes I am serious. The OP question was about how the two conditions are dealt with.
Smoking is generally frowned upon. The product is taxed. You can't buy cigs under 18 legally. Many buildings do not allow smoking inside them or even within a set distance near them. It's more difficult to sell cars or homes that have been smoked heavily in. Cigarette companies can't even advertise certain ways because it might appeal to kids.
Obesity isn't dealt with in the same way, nor should it be. It's mostly dealt with by doctors during a physical telling you as nicely as possible that you're a fat fuck and are going to have health complications if you don't change your diet and take care of your body. It's the same thing as going to a dentist and having him say take care of your teeth before they fall out. There is no generally accepted anti-obesity tactics put into practice by the public. It's actually the opposite, we accommodate greatly for them.
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Obesity hurts you and can cause some health problems but with careful planning its not too life threatening
Smoking kills you and once youve done damage to your lings with it theres no coming back from taht and hurts people around you
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On March 07 2012 05:22 kobrakai wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 04:42 Rygasm wrote:On March 07 2012 03:58 kobrakai wrote: The UK should start putting pictures of obscenely obese people on fast food, fatty foods, snacks just like we have pictures of horrendous teeth, fucking dirty lungs etc.
I'm also sick and tired of food I like getting reduced fat and salt content.
Fat and salt make things taste good, is it my fault that fat fuckers can't control themselves?
You mad bro? Quit buying the food that has reduced fat/salt content, you shouldn't have a problem with that. No. The use of swear words does not indicate rage or madness, it's part of common speech. It is more for emphasis. Er... you can't?
True, it can provide emphasis, but if someone says "fat fuckers can't control themselves" I am certainly going to interpret that as anger or rage.
I do see sodium being reduced in many products across the board, but certainly it cannot be that difficult to add a shake or two of salt to bring it back to what it once was. As for reduced fat, I see many food companies making that an option, but hardly mandatory.
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On March 07 2012 05:41 sleepingdog wrote: The main problem is, that there is no way to "differentiate" properly with food ads. With smoking it's easy - prohibit ads for cigarettes/cigarres and that's it. For food, where to start and where to stop? I mean, yes you can start with McDonalds, but will you also disallow stuff like frozen fish sticks? Chips? How about sweets like chocolate.
There the problem arises that it's NOT per se unhealthy to consume chocolate/etc. once in a while. I do a lot of sport and eat chocolate every day and I'm perfectly healthy.
Stopping advertising of extremely unhealthy food targeted specifically and explicitly at children would be a good place to start I think. It's easy for adults to realize the benefits of moderation, but children don't have that capacity. So while I realize that if I ate only chocolate bars I would become morbidly obese, a child doesn't realize that would occur. They're missing the cause and effect relationship and the notion of consequences to allow them to make informed decisions based on the effects of their choices.
I think a lot of problems start with kids eating so poorly from an early age, and beginning to curb that could make a big impact of future generations. If someone is already obese by the time they realize the consequences, it will be hard for them to change since they've lived their whole life that way. However, if someone is not obese by the time they realize the consequences, I think it is much more unlikely that they'd start eating very unhealthily and become obese.
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On March 07 2012 06:33 MercilessMonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 05:41 sleepingdog wrote: The main problem is, that there is no way to "differentiate" properly with food ads. With smoking it's easy - prohibit ads for cigarettes/cigarres and that's it. For food, where to start and where to stop? I mean, yes you can start with McDonalds, but will you also disallow stuff like frozen fish sticks? Chips? How about sweets like chocolate.
There the problem arises that it's NOT per se unhealthy to consume chocolate/etc. once in a while. I do a lot of sport and eat chocolate every day and I'm perfectly healthy. Stopping advertising of extremely unhealthy food targeted specifically and explicitly at children would be a good place to start I think. It's easy for adults to realize the benefits of moderation, but children don't have that capacity. So while I realize that if I ate only chocolate bars I would become morbidly obese, a child doesn't realize that would occur. They're missing the cause and effect relationship and the notion of consequences to allow them to make informed decisions based on the effects of their choices. I think a lot of problems start with kids eating so poorly from an early age, and beginning to curb that could make a big impact of future generations. If someone is already obese by the time they realize the consequences, it will be hard for them to change since they've lived their whole life that way. However, if someone is not obese by the time they realize the consequences, I think it is much more unlikely that they'd start eating very unhealthily and become obese.
dont think taht should be lumped on advertisers and producers i think all the fault there lies with Parents, the only reason for kids to be obese is if the parents overfeed them its not like the kids got a aprt time job at young ages all his money and food comes from his parents if his or her parents arent taking responsibility why should anyone else?
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On March 07 2012 06:53 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 06:33 MercilessMonkey wrote:On March 07 2012 05:41 sleepingdog wrote: The main problem is, that there is no way to "differentiate" properly with food ads. With smoking it's easy - prohibit ads for cigarettes/cigarres and that's it. For food, where to start and where to stop? I mean, yes you can start with McDonalds, but will you also disallow stuff like frozen fish sticks? Chips? How about sweets like chocolate.
There the problem arises that it's NOT per se unhealthy to consume chocolate/etc. once in a while. I do a lot of sport and eat chocolate every day and I'm perfectly healthy. Stopping advertising of extremely unhealthy food targeted specifically and explicitly at children would be a good place to start I think. It's easy for adults to realize the benefits of moderation, but children don't have that capacity. So while I realize that if I ate only chocolate bars I would become morbidly obese, a child doesn't realize that would occur. They're missing the cause and effect relationship and the notion of consequences to allow them to make informed decisions based on the effects of their choices. I think a lot of problems start with kids eating so poorly from an early age, and beginning to curb that could make a big impact of future generations. If someone is already obese by the time they realize the consequences, it will be hard for them to change since they've lived their whole life that way. However, if someone is not obese by the time they realize the consequences, I think it is much more unlikely that they'd start eating very unhealthily and become obese. dont think taht should be lumped on advertisers and producers i think all the fault there lies with Parents, the only reason for kids to be obese is if the parents overfeed them its not like the kids got a aprt time job at young ages all his money and food comes from his parents if his or her parents arent taking responsibility why should anyone else?
Ya I agree parents are probably more likely at fault. But if they aren't going to change, why should the kids be punished for their parent's failures? If kids aren't seeing ads for chocolate/butter/fat/whatever food all the time, they aren't going to ask their parents to buy it for them. I doubt many parents go out of their way to buy unhealthy stuff their kid doesn't want, I think they just give in and buy whatever it is their kids do want; if the kids no longer wanted this stuff, it would solve the issue. Trying to make parents be more disciplined and educated would be a lot harder to do, and manipulating children with advertising doesn't seem like something that is entirely ok. It's the same argument for cigarette producers and their advertisements, except it has been lumped on as their responsibility.
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In my opinion (as a former smoker), being obese is exactly the same as being a smoker. Both are choices, and both are incredibly bad for you. Quitting smoking isn't easy, nor is exercising/not eating a shit ton of food.
I understand that there are a small percentage of people that have medical conditions that cause them to be obese, but a majority of society that is fat is fat because they are lazy.
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On March 07 2012 03:58 kobrakai wrote: The UK should start putting pictures of obscenely obese people on fast food, fatty foods, snacks just like we have pictures of horrendous teeth, fucking dirty lungs etc.
I'm also sick and tired of food I like getting reduced fat and salt content.
Fat and salt make things taste good, is it my fault that fat fuckers can't control themselves?
Funny how it is sugar and excess carbs that are bad for you. Its really hard to be fat on a high fat diet, and salt is harmless for healthy people (unless you try commit suicide with salt or smth)
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On March 07 2012 07:00 MercilessMonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 06:53 Forikorder wrote:On March 07 2012 06:33 MercilessMonkey wrote:On March 07 2012 05:41 sleepingdog wrote: The main problem is, that there is no way to "differentiate" properly with food ads. With smoking it's easy - prohibit ads for cigarettes/cigarres and that's it. For food, where to start and where to stop? I mean, yes you can start with McDonalds, but will you also disallow stuff like frozen fish sticks? Chips? How about sweets like chocolate.
There the problem arises that it's NOT per se unhealthy to consume chocolate/etc. once in a while. I do a lot of sport and eat chocolate every day and I'm perfectly healthy. Stopping advertising of extremely unhealthy food targeted specifically and explicitly at children would be a good place to start I think. It's easy for adults to realize the benefits of moderation, but children don't have that capacity. So while I realize that if I ate only chocolate bars I would become morbidly obese, a child doesn't realize that would occur. They're missing the cause and effect relationship and the notion of consequences to allow them to make informed decisions based on the effects of their choices. I think a lot of problems start with kids eating so poorly from an early age, and beginning to curb that could make a big impact of future generations. If someone is already obese by the time they realize the consequences, it will be hard for them to change since they've lived their whole life that way. However, if someone is not obese by the time they realize the consequences, I think it is much more unlikely that they'd start eating very unhealthily and become obese. dont think taht should be lumped on advertisers and producers i think all the fault there lies with Parents, the only reason for kids to be obese is if the parents overfeed them its not like the kids got a aprt time job at young ages all his money and food comes from his parents if his or her parents arent taking responsibility why should anyone else? Ya I agree parents are probably more likely at fault. But if they aren't going to change, why should the kids be punished for their parent's failures? If kids aren't seeing ads for chocolate/butter/fat/whatever food all the time, they aren't going to ask their parents to buy it for them. I doubt many parents go out of their way to buy unhealthy stuff their kid doesn't want, I think they just give in and buy whatever it is their kids do want; if the kids no longer wanted this stuff, it would solve the issue. Trying to make parents be more disciplined and educated would be a lot harder to do, and manipulating children with advertising doesn't seem like something that is entirely ok. It's the same argument for cigarette producers and their advertisements, except it has been lumped on as their responsibility. the thing about cigarettes is there only bad, nothing good comes from smoking
but eating sweets isnt a bad thing its only bad when it gets execcisive when there overeating and punishing people who arent putting bad things on the shelf jsut because parents are being completely unresponsible doesnt make sense
Cigarette companies put poisonous dangerous products ont he shelf, sweet companies dont
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On March 07 2012 07:02 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 03:58 kobrakai wrote: The UK should start putting pictures of obscenely obese people on fast food, fatty foods, snacks just like we have pictures of horrendous teeth, fucking dirty lungs etc.
I'm also sick and tired of food I like getting reduced fat and salt content.
Fat and salt make things taste good, is it my fault that fat fuckers can't control themselves?
Funny how it is sugar and excess carbs that are bad for you. Its really hard to be fat on a high fat diet, and salt is harmless for healthy people (unless you try commit suicide with salt or smth)
Salt isn't harmless for healthy people, healthy people can still eat too much of it. Which is harmful. Also a great many people in this thread seem to think ( at least this is what I think they think) that being slim means you're healthy. If you're really fat you're unhealthy, but if you're slim you can be either healthy or unhealthy.
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