|
Do not derail the thread with discussions about other topics like global warming. |
On March 13 2012 16:12 Mysticesper wrote: University in my state is 4125 per year + whatever other expenses you end up requiring. Rent around here can be as low as 3-400 depending on your situation. Unfortunately, I had to go to a different university for my degree, as it wasn't offered in my state. Now that I'm in graduate school, it does become nearly free, though financial aid is slow and apparently is missing my stuff for my tuition waiver (surprise surprise).
I think a lot of people decide to go to "top" & out of state universities, when in many cases, it isn't necessary unless you really are doing cutting edge stuff (which probably means you have a scholarship). Getting your run of the mill liberal arts / social sciences degrees (the easy BS degrees just to get one) really don't amount to a whole lot, and it isn't worth going to an out of state or private college just to pay upwards of 3 times as much.
I heard something somewhere, but if you are spending more per year on your school than you see yourself earning when you finish school, it isn't a worthwhile investment.
How can you view social sience as a BS degree, especially when we are talking about the America? Who are you to jugde what degree is necessary, or even what is easy? if you don't got that degree yourself, you are not entitled to state such things. If anything, then social sience could be viewed as more important and possibly harder than a math degree.
|
On March 13 2012 16:16 Zergmeister wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 16:12 Mysticesper wrote: University in my state is 4125 per year + whatever other expenses you end up requiring. Rent around here can be as low as 3-400 depending on your situation. Unfortunately, I had to go to a different university for my degree, as it wasn't offered in my state. Now that I'm in graduate school, it does become nearly free, though financial aid is slow and apparently is missing my stuff for my tuition waiver (surprise surprise).
I think a lot of people decide to go to "top" & out of state universities, when in many cases, it isn't necessary unless you really are doing cutting edge stuff (which probably means you have a scholarship). Getting your run of the mill liberal arts / social sciences degrees (the easy BS degrees just to get one) really don't amount to a whole lot, and it isn't worth going to an out of state or private college just to pay upwards of 3 times as much.
I heard something somewhere, but if you are spending more per year on your school than you see yourself earning when you finish school, it isn't a worthwhile investment. How can you view social sience as a BS degree, especially when we are talking about the America? Who are you to jugde what degree is necessary, or even what is easy? if you don't got that degree yourself, you are not entitled to state such things. LOL! BS stands for Bachelors of Science. Generally speaking, the liberal arts/social science degrees are fairly "easy" because you should already know the information for all of the classes prior to taking them.
|
On March 13 2012 16:16 Zergmeister wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 16:12 Mysticesper wrote: University in my state is 4125 per year + whatever other expenses you end up requiring. Rent around here can be as low as 3-400 depending on your situation. Unfortunately, I had to go to a different university for my degree, as it wasn't offered in my state. Now that I'm in graduate school, it does become nearly free, though financial aid is slow and apparently is missing my stuff for my tuition waiver (surprise surprise).
I think a lot of people decide to go to "top" & out of state universities, when in many cases, it isn't necessary unless you really are doing cutting edge stuff (which probably means you have a scholarship). Getting your run of the mill liberal arts / social sciences degrees (the easy BS degrees just to get one) really don't amount to a whole lot, and it isn't worth going to an out of state or private college just to pay upwards of 3 times as much.
I heard something somewhere, but if you are spending more per year on your school than you see yourself earning when you finish school, it isn't a worthwhile investment. How can you view social sience as a BS degree, especially when we are talking about the America? Who are you to jugde what degree is necessary, or even what is easy? if you don't got that degree yourself, you are not entitled to state such things. If anything, then social sience could be viewed as more important and possibly harder than a math degree. Lets be realistic, no, just no. Unless this is from the perspective of an asian who came to america and only lived there for a few months, then yeah social science is harder.
|
On March 13 2012 16:10 BenBuford wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 15:48 tetrismaan wrote: In Denmark it is free, and we even get 1000$ each month from the government, with the chance of making a student-rent for 650$ each month with 1% interest. Yep, it's pretty sweet. I think you meant student- loan though. I spent 6 years of my life getting my free education(s), and never having to work on the side, and my parents never paid any kroner (it's a real currency, stupid as it may sound ). It really let's you focus on studying. Now, I have a degree and a full time job, and have no problem paying my ~40% tax cut (~50% if you add all sorts of union fees/workers associations fees etc.). I got a lot from society in my twenties, and now I have the opportunity to give something back, while maintaining a decent living (annual income ~60k $). Yeah, "socialism" is torture .
Denmark got one, if not the best, education system, especially with the SU(state support) system. If you really want a education, you can get one. Like it should be
|
On March 13 2012 16:09 sunprince wrote: What a ridiculously biased OP and title.
Education can't be free. What's really being asked is: "Should education be subsidized by taxpayers?" It already is to a extent in pretty much every public university. At least in Canada. I shake my head when I see how good the Quebecers got it when they only pay like 3-4k a year in undergrad tuition fees.
If that wasn't the case I'd probably be paying up the wazoo for my already expensive pharmacy degree which currently runs 15k/year with that going up 5-7% every year.
|
On March 13 2012 16:12 anycolourfloyd wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 16:04 Minzy wrote: its abit of both in australia, can take a 'loan' of sorts from the government which we call HECS, and they take care of it, and you will pay it back in taxes when u earn over 30 grand a year. you can also choose to pay, so its a choice, essentially anyone can go to university. if you're an aussie citizen anyway. i was amazed to hear recently that education is australia's third or fourth biggest export.. international students get reamed for the big bucks yup, you guys pay less than 5k per semester, we pay 10-15k per semester. but technically you'd pay all of that back eventually, unless you decide to be a bum, then your higher education would be discounted
|
On March 13 2012 16:09 sunprince wrote: What a ridiculously biased OP and title.
Education can't be free. What's really being asked is: "Should education be subsidized by taxpayers?" It already is.
1075 + (1600/2 or 1600/3) ~ 1600 to 1875 per semester. I pay 2200 to 3000 per semester and I go to school in British Columbia. 2200 for about 12 credits and 3000 for about 18. If you can't afford to pay it, then apply for an interest free student loan. Apply to do a few co-op semesters and you can get your education paid for with extra to spend on other things.
|
On March 13 2012 16:22 ballasdontcry wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 16:09 sunprince wrote: What a ridiculously biased OP and title.
Education can't be free. What's really being asked is: "Should education be subsidized by taxpayers?" It already is to a extent in pretty much every public university. At least in Canada. I shake my head when I see how good the Quebecers got it when they only pay like 3-4k a year in undergrad tuition fees. If that wasn't the case I'd probably be paying up the wazoo for my already expensive pharmacy degree which currently runs 15k/year with that going up 5-7% every year. He was saying that the money has to come from somewhere, whether it be from taxes or you pay extra (which you are currently doing). It's nitpicking because most people understand that you meant "Should education be subsidized by taxpayers?"
|
Yes it should be free, or at the very least muuuuuuch cheaper then it is now. I feel like university these days are more of a business then they used to be.
|
On March 13 2012 15:42 Datz2Ez wrote:Hi fellow members, Let's start first to give you the context of my threadI live in montreal, quebec, Canada. We live in a society that was founded mostly with left politic. Our health system is free and our education fees are low. At the moment, we pay around 1075$/semester (+/- 2000$/year) to go to university. Even if the fees our low, the average student end university with +/- 15 000 in dept. Our governement wants us to now pay 1600$/year more. In other terms, they are asking the students to double the dept they end with Students are now on strike and asking the governement to cancel the raise. You have to be aware that this only represent 1.2% of the global education budget so we are not talking about a huge sum. Where do I stand?To be honest, I always tought everyone should have equal access to education. The best way would be to make it free. I think we should favor more an 'elitism' way of choosing the students by looking more into the grades.I will not get into the details and argue on both side but I was really interrested to see what people all over think about education. EDIT: We pay around 40-45% in tax... so yea we have low fees but we pay it back in some way. P.S. This is no democrat vs republicans Forgive my poor english it is not my first language.
Bolded, why?
There are already scholarships to be had for those who work for it. I really really don't believe grades should be looked upon even more favorly, simply because it's a terrible system. Having said that, I realize it's also just about the only sustainable system, but we should be trying to move away from it, not to rely on it even more.
|
In germany, higher education doesn't cost too much when compared to the US. However, during the last 10 years, politicians always said that they "need more academics" and "too little children from poor/low-educated families attend universities", while at the same time increasing the university fees, which is kinda hypocrital. Every country needs a lot of high-educated people today to stay competitive in the future, and therefore I say that free or even paid education up to say a bachelor degree will be a win-win situation for everybody (obviously there need to be some reasonable mechanism not to exploit this, for example a time-limit and not too bad grades required before entering etc,).
|
On March 13 2012 16:12 Zergmeister wrote: How can you even suggest to deny humans from education, simply because they have fewer resources than you? by that logic, no 3rd world humans would EVER recive any edjucation, neither would orphans, or poor people. It completely boggles my mind, that we still live in a world, where free education isn't a basic human right. I completely agree with you.
However, I'd like to point out that, actually, education is a basic human right. According to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 26, "higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit".
|
I think that a College Education should be free, or damn close to it.
A University education should have fee's attached to it, but not at the rate they are currently at. Some law schools cost $4000+ for a SEMESTER. That is beyond stupid.
Colleges and university's should be regulated and non-profit organisations. There is no reason VP's and the like of a University deserve a $250k+ annual salary. If someone thinks they do deserve it, I challenge that person to clearly indicate what special abilities and skills such an individual possessses to deserve such a wage - a wage paid for by students primarily under the age of 24. Sickening.
|
On March 13 2012 16:29 Kamais Ookin wrote: Yes it should be free, or at the very least muuuuuuch cheaper then it is now. I feel like university these days are more of a business then they used to be. I can't imagine what you'd be saying if you were an international student
|
On March 13 2012 16:12 Zergmeister wrote: All levels of education should be free, it is for the greater good of the human race, money's importans pale in comparison.
How can you even suggest to deny humans from education, simply because they have fewer resources than you? by that logic, no 3rd world humans would EVER recive any edjucation, neither would orphans, or poor people. It completely boggles my mind, that we still live in a world, where free education isn't a basic human right.
BTW. Here in Denmark, you get paid as a student to educate yourself beyond primary school.
Free education is impossible. In order for someone to receive an education they must either produce the wealth needed to buy it or someone else needs to produce the wealth needed to buy it. The idea of a specific rights to things like education, food, housing, etc. contradicts the entire ideas of the actual rights which we need in order to survive. The single fundamental right, from which all other rights are corollaries is the right to life, which means, the right to the actions (but not objects) necessary for a rational being to survive and achieve happiness. A corollary of this right to life is the right to property because if a man is to sustain his life by his own actions and reason, he must have the right to the use and disposal of the products of his actions. The man who has no right to the product of his actions has no means to sustain his life. The right to life is not the right to the objects necessary for survival and happiness. If one has the right to the objects needed for survival and happiness, that means someone else is obliged to produce those objects for him. If one is obliged to forfeit the products of his mind, that means he has no right to those objects which means he has no right to property and therefore no right to life. Economic rights destroy individual rights.
|
on the basis of merit".
Thats the most important part right there.
Free can be free - but first you must QUALIFY.
|
On March 13 2012 16:33 Poffel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 16:12 Zergmeister wrote: How can you even suggest to deny humans from education, simply because they have fewer resources than you? by that logic, no 3rd world humans would EVER recive any edjucation, neither would orphans, or poor people. It completely boggles my mind, that we still live in a world, where free education isn't a basic human right. I completely agree with you. However, I'd like to point out that, actually, education is a basic human right. According to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 26, "higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit". Just because the UN asserts it does not make it true. There is no rational basis to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
|
On March 13 2012 16:15 Ercster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 16:13 BluePanther wrote: I pay nearly 40k a year to attend school. You must have it so bad... I have to ask, where are you going to school, and what are you majoring in? I have the same potential cost, Art Center for Industrial Design (may be going this year, can't afford honestly....). It costs a total of about 160k for the 4 year degree and living in LA.........lol.....yeah. Don't think it's happening.
|
theres already enough people with a B. Sc making it hard to get a job in sciences now, opening it up to everyone would be annoying unless Free education = increase GPA to graduate
I'd be for that, i'd still pass and all the people who think they're scientists by pulling sub 3.0 UDGPA / CGPA (even 3.0 is low for Upper division IMO, but for cgpa w/e) wont get a degree. Currently morons are coasting by with a cool 2.5 getting the same degree I have so in order to distinguish myself from them I need to spend more time and money getting a M. Sc. (which i am going to do regardless, but that's besides the point)
|
On March 13 2012 16:34 CorsairHero wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 16:29 Kamais Ookin wrote: Yes it should be free, or at the very least muuuuuuch cheaper then it is now. I feel like university these days are more of a business then they used to be. I can't imagine what you'd be saying if you were an international student I can't tell you what I'd say, I'd be IP banned.
|
|
|
|