I get around 6,990.16 USD a year.
Hearing all the stories regarding loans and dept from my friends outside of the Danish Kingdom makes me kinda sad.
EDIT: Yeah, our taxes are around 40%. Wouldn't be surprised if it is 50% for the rich.
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redmarine
Denmark165 Posts
I get around 6,990.16 USD a year. Hearing all the stories regarding loans and dept from my friends outside of the Danish Kingdom makes me kinda sad. EDIT: Yeah, our taxes are around 40%. Wouldn't be surprised if it is 50% for the rich. | ||
Vivax
Austria20864 Posts
My opinion?Awesome!You have very much freedom to 'look around' as student, and all that matters is your self-motivation, not some pressure from the top (there still is, but not direcly financial). I wanted to use the human development index as an example, but it seems to be flawed since it contains income/GDP. Wtf does money have to do with human development?Have the most billionaires in your country while everyone else is starving and the HDI rises... | ||
Zergmeister
Denmark56 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:35 OsoVega wrote: Show nested quote + On March 13 2012 16:12 Zergmeister wrote: All levels of education should be free, it is for the greater good of the human race, money's importans pale in comparison. How can you even suggest to deny humans from education, simply because they have fewer resources than you? by that logic, no 3rd world humans would EVER recive any edjucation, neither would orphans, or poor people. It completely boggles my mind, that we still live in a world, where free education isn't a basic human right. BTW. Here in Denmark, you get paid as a student to educate yourself beyond primary school. Free education is impossible. In order for someone to receive an education they must either produce the wealth needed to buy it or someone else needs to produce the wealth needed to buy it. The idea of a right to something that does not occur in nature contradicts the entire ideas of the actual rights which we need in order to survive. The single fundamental right, from which all other rights are corollaries is the right to life, which means, the right to the actions (but not objects) necessary for a rational being to survive and achieve happiness. A corollary of this right to life is the right to property because if a man is to sustain his life by his own actions and reason, he must have the right to the use and disposal of the products of his actions. The man who has no right to the product of his actions has no means to sustain his life. The right to life is not the right to the objects necessary for survival and happiness. If one has the right to the objects needed for survival and happiness, that means someone else is obliged to produce those objects for him. If one is obliged to forfeit the products of his mind, that means he has no right to those objects which means he has no right to property and therefore no right to life. Economic rights destroy individual rights. You need to learn to start new sentences, you can't just roll a short novel like that out in one go, and expect people to read it. I think you are a little confused. What i said was the greater good of the human race, as in all of us. The more the human race advances pr individual, the better a world can be achived. If you truely think that we don't have right to "anything that does not occur in nature" then you have no right to anything, because NOTHING happens in nature that affect it's inhabitans, other than disasters, hence the human race have seperated our world from nature, as the nature is pretty much the shittiest of shitholes to live in. Also quit being dellusional. There is NO such thing as a right to "live" in nature. Not even to be born. We can use the turtle as an example. They lay dozens of eggs, but only 1-3 will survive, and those who do are in danger of predators from the moment they are born. The human race should seek to distance itself from nature, not obey it like a common dictator. But back to the main point. If the individual humans in the future would be much smarter than now, then we as a race could properly achive more, and end a lot of problems going on in the world. | ||
Tektos
Australia1321 Posts
Higher education should not be free but also should not be a requirement by all employers, only those with a specialized need for tertiary education. | ||
Heweree
United Kingdom497 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:47 LRObot wrote: Show nested quote + On March 13 2012 16:45 savagebeavers wrote: On March 13 2012 16:35 OsoVega wrote: On March 13 2012 16:12 Zergmeister wrote: All levels of education should be free, it is for the greater good of the human race, money's importans pale in comparison. How can you even suggest to deny humans from education, simply because they have fewer resources than you? by that logic, no 3rd world humans would EVER recive any edjucation, neither would orphans, or poor people. It completely boggles my mind, that we still live in a world, where free education isn't a basic human right. BTW. Here in Denmark, you get paid as a student to educate yourself beyond primary school. Free education is impossible. In order for someone to receive an education they must either produce the wealth needed to buy it or someone else needs to produce the wealth needed to buy it. The idea of a right to something that does not occur in nature contradicts the entire ideas of the actual rights which we need in order to survive. The single fundamental right, from which all other rights are corollaries is the right to life, which means, the right to the actions (but not objects) necessary for a rational being to survive and achieve happiness. A corollary of this right to life is the right to property because if a man is to sustain his life by his own actions and reason, he must have the right to the use and disposal of the products of his actions. The man who has no right to the product of his actions has no means to sustain his life. The right to life is not the right to the objects necessary for survival and happiness. If one has the right to the objects needed for survival and happiness, that means someone else is obliged to produce those objects for him. If one is obliged to forfeit the products of his mind, that means he has no right to those objects which means he has no right to property and therefore no right to life. Economic rights destroy individual rights. How can you say free education is impossible when it exists in so many countries? There is no such thing as free education. Someone along the way has to pay for it, whether it be taxpayers or the student. Stop playing on words u_u, ofc he is speaking about taxpayers. | ||
savagebeavers
Canada105 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:51 OsoVega wrote: Show nested quote + On March 13 2012 16:45 savagebeavers wrote: On March 13 2012 16:35 OsoVega wrote: On March 13 2012 16:12 Zergmeister wrote: All levels of education should be free, it is for the greater good of the human race, money's importans pale in comparison. How can you even suggest to deny humans from education, simply because they have fewer resources than you? by that logic, no 3rd world humans would EVER recive any edjucation, neither would orphans, or poor people. It completely boggles my mind, that we still live in a world, where free education isn't a basic human right. BTW. Here in Denmark, you get paid as a student to educate yourself beyond primary school. Free education is impossible. In order for someone to receive an education they must either produce the wealth needed to buy it or someone else needs to produce the wealth needed to buy it. The idea of a right to something that does not occur in nature contradicts the entire ideas of the actual rights which we need in order to survive. The single fundamental right, from which all other rights are corollaries is the right to life, which means, the right to the actions (but not objects) necessary for a rational being to survive and achieve happiness. A corollary of this right to life is the right to property because if a man is to sustain his life by his own actions and reason, he must have the right to the use and disposal of the products of his actions. The man who has no right to the product of his actions has no means to sustain his life. The right to life is not the right to the objects necessary for survival and happiness. If one has the right to the objects needed for survival and happiness, that means someone else is obliged to produce those objects for him. If one is obliged to forfeit the products of his mind, that means he has no right to those objects which means he has no right to property and therefore no right to life. Economic rights destroy individual rights. How can you say free education is impossible when it exists in so many countries? Because someone is always paying. Someone is producing the wealth needed to fund your education whether it is you, your parents, someone donating to a scholarship or the tax payer. The discussion is "should the government pay for 100% of the tuition costs". We are not discussing whether money should appear out of thin air. Edit : basically your using the strawman argument. | ||
CorsairHero
Canada9487 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:52 askTeivospy wrote: Show nested quote + On March 13 2012 16:46 sirkyan wrote: On March 13 2012 16:39 askTeivospy wrote: theres already enough people with a B. Sc making it hard to get a job in sciences now, opening it up to everyone would be annoying unless Free education = increase GPA to graduate I'd be for that, i'd still pass and all the people who think they're scientists by pulling sub 3.0 UDGPA / CGPA (even 3.0 is low for Upper division IMO, but for cgpa w/e) wont get a degree. Currently morons are coasting by with a cool 2.5 getting the same degree I have so in order to distinguish myself from them I need to spend more time and money getting a M. Sc. (which i am going to do regardless, but that's besides the point) Why do you feel grades are of such importance (for character)? Why do people define themself through grades? It's pathetic. Your character isn't going to get you into graduate school or get you research grants to show the world you actually are capable at something other than basic memorization. Sorry to tell you but these days a B Sc is as good as a BA in terms of getting a job because everyone has one now since the requirements to get one are objectively low I was an open minded child once, but then i grew up and got experienced. IMO its you with the pathetic outlook. The "morons" with a "cool" 2.5 aren't going to grad school and wont be looking to get research grants so don't worry. | ||
Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
You can also take student loans which have pretty gosh darn good interest rates. Just recently the right wing party removed the possibility for foreigners outside of the EU to have free education here as well. Having an educated population is one of the corner stones of democracy. You can't have democracy if you have a population that doesn't even know what it's voting for. It's one of the most important thing in society. If the majority in a country lacks higher education you might as well turn into a dictatorship, because the public can't be held responsible to make good decisions. Edit. Of course Sweden is in no way unique for this. Just an example as I actually know how the system works here. | ||
askTeivospy
1525 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:55 CorsairHero wrote: Show nested quote + On March 13 2012 16:52 askTeivospy wrote: On March 13 2012 16:46 sirkyan wrote: On March 13 2012 16:39 askTeivospy wrote: theres already enough people with a B. Sc making it hard to get a job in sciences now, opening it up to everyone would be annoying unless Free education = increase GPA to graduate I'd be for that, i'd still pass and all the people who think they're scientists by pulling sub 3.0 UDGPA / CGPA (even 3.0 is low for Upper division IMO, but for cgpa w/e) wont get a degree. Currently morons are coasting by with a cool 2.5 getting the same degree I have so in order to distinguish myself from them I need to spend more time and money getting a M. Sc. (which i am going to do regardless, but that's besides the point) Why do you feel grades are of such importance (for character)? Why do people define themself through grades? It's pathetic. Your character isn't going to get you into graduate school or get you research grants to show the world you actually are capable at something other than basic memorization. Sorry to tell you but these days a B Sc is as good as a BA in terms of getting a job because everyone has one now since the requirements to get one are objectively low I was an open minded child once, but then i grew up and got experienced. IMO its you with the pathetic outlook. The "morons" with a "cool" 2.5 aren't going to grad school and wont be looking to get research grants so don't worry. still doesn't mean they deserve a B SC either sorry, its less about the number but more about how much effort you put into it, and the fact that if I got the GPA i did and some idiot who had no idea how to use a graduated cylinder got the GPA they did and we both got the same degree, its on me to spend more time and money to distinguish myself from that person since employers dont care about my hilariously high GPA (they also don't care about bachelors since its really e Z to get). I agree with employers though, makes sense from their perspective | ||
emc
United States3088 Posts
On March 13 2012 17:01 Euronyme wrote: In Sweden you get payed about 300 dollars a month as a university student (which you don't have to pay back), you get discounts on just about anything from computers to bus tickets, you get shorter queues for apartments that you can rent really cheap while studying and it's all completely free. You do have to pay for the books though. You can also take student loans which have pretty gosh darn good interest rates. Just recently the right wing party removed the possibility for foreigners outside of the EU to have free education here as well. Having an educated population is one of the corner stones of democracy. You can't have democracy if you have a population that doesn't even know what it's voting for. It's one of the most important thing in society. If the majority in a country lacks higher education you might as well turn into a dictatorship, because the public can't be held responsible to make good decisions. I'm moving to sweden O_o america's corner stone of democracy is military to keep the democracy. | ||
Poffel
471 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:46 OsoVega wrote: Show nested quote + On March 13 2012 16:44 Poffel wrote: On March 13 2012 16:36 OsoVega wrote: On March 13 2012 16:33 Poffel wrote: On March 13 2012 16:12 Zergmeister wrote: How can you even suggest to deny humans from education, simply because they have fewer resources than you? by that logic, no 3rd world humans would EVER recive any edjucation, neither would orphans, or poor people. It completely boggles my mind, that we still live in a world, where free education isn't a basic human right. I completely agree with you. However, I'd like to point out that, actually, education is a basic human right. According to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 26, "higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit". Just because the UN asserts it does not make it true. There is no rational basis to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Well, of course it doesn't make it "true"... it's a right, not a fact. What do you think rights are? Things granted to you by your government or the UN? I think I'll just say yes. Before you - once again, I might add - try to imply that I'm an idiot, please note that I am perfectly aware of the difference between ius positum and lex naturalis, as well as the ambiguity of 'codified natural law' in regard to that difference. I merely refuse to be baited into a completely off-topic discussion that has nothing to do with the fact that education should indeed be free. | ||
OsoVega
926 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:52 Zergmeister wrote: Show nested quote + On March 13 2012 16:35 OsoVega wrote: On March 13 2012 16:12 Zergmeister wrote: All levels of education should be free, it is for the greater good of the human race, money's importans pale in comparison. How can you even suggest to deny humans from education, simply because they have fewer resources than you? by that logic, no 3rd world humans would EVER recive any edjucation, neither would orphans, or poor people. It completely boggles my mind, that we still live in a world, where free education isn't a basic human right. BTW. Here in Denmark, you get paid as a student to educate yourself beyond primary school. Free education is impossible. In order for someone to receive an education they must either produce the wealth needed to buy it or someone else needs to produce the wealth needed to buy it. The idea of a right to something that does not occur in nature contradicts the entire ideas of the actual rights which we need in order to survive. The single fundamental right, from which all other rights are corollaries is the right to life, which means, the right to the actions (but not objects) necessary for a rational being to survive and achieve happiness. A corollary of this right to life is the right to property because if a man is to sustain his life by his own actions and reason, he must have the right to the use and disposal of the products of his actions. The man who has no right to the product of his actions has no means to sustain his life. The right to life is not the right to the objects necessary for survival and happiness. If one has the right to the objects needed for survival and happiness, that means someone else is obliged to produce those objects for him. If one is obliged to forfeit the products of his mind, that means he has no right to those objects which means he has no right to property and therefore no right to life. Economic rights destroy individual rights. You need to learn to start new sentences, you can't just roll a short novel like that out in one go, and expect people to read it. I think you are a little confused. What i said was the greater good of the human race, as in all of us. The more the human race advances pr individual, the better a world can be achived. If you truely think that we don't have right to "anything that does not occur in nature" then you have no right to anything, because NOTHING happens in nature that affect it's inhabitans, other than disasters, hence the human race have seperated our world from nature, as the nature is pretty much the shittiest of shitholes to live in. Also quit being dellusional. There is NO such thing as a right to "live" in nature. Not even to be born. We can use the turtle as an example. They lay dozens of eggs, but only 1-3 will survive, and those who do are in danger of predators from the moment they are born. The human race should seek to distance itself from nature, not obey it like a common dictator. But back to the main point. If the individual humans in the future would be much smarter than now, then we as a race could properly achive more, and end a lot of problems going on in the world. You've misunderstood me but it's partially my fault. I didn't mean that we do not have the right to produce and own things, that are not natural, but that we do not have a specific right to the products of other people's minds. I've replaced that sentence. I think my sentence structure is fine. I don't get how you think I was suggesting that we have a right to "live in nature". Even with my one inaccurate sentence, that is a stretch. I am saying that we have a right to the actions necessary for our survival and happiness. This is what I call the right to life. It includes everything that does not violate other people's rights because what contributes to one's happiness is up to the individual to decide. | ||
Grohg
United States243 Posts
I have no trouble paying for education...in fact, the fact that I paid for it made it more valuable to me than it would have been otherwise. I did well in school prior to my university years but I didn't have the same motivation to succeed until it was coming from my own pocket. It was the best thing I could have gotten for my money and it's something that will help me for the rest of my life. This is why scholarships are so good. The most motivated people and talented students receive the aid that they deserve. There is a lot of money to be had through scholarships if you as a student are willing to put in the effort of tracking it down. The government already subsidizes public schools quite a bit and they should always try to keep the costs at an affordable level. Unfortunately, with the global economy still in a state of instability, prices on anything with value can't possibly stay as low as they were before. That may change after the financial crisis is dealt with but for now, I think the system in place is fine...the implementation could always use improvements, however. tl;dr: It's expensive but worth it. It is an investment for the future, not a cost which has no ability to recoup the initial expenditure. There might be issues in the overall implementation but the system works as it is for the most part. | ||
Sated
England4983 Posts
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theBALLS
Singapore2935 Posts
You guys have it easy. | ||
CorsairHero
Canada9487 Posts
On March 13 2012 17:01 askTeivospy wrote: Show nested quote + On March 13 2012 16:55 CorsairHero wrote: On March 13 2012 16:52 askTeivospy wrote: On March 13 2012 16:46 sirkyan wrote: On March 13 2012 16:39 askTeivospy wrote: theres already enough people with a B. Sc making it hard to get a job in sciences now, opening it up to everyone would be annoying unless Free education = increase GPA to graduate I'd be for that, i'd still pass and all the people who think they're scientists by pulling sub 3.0 UDGPA / CGPA (even 3.0 is low for Upper division IMO, but for cgpa w/e) wont get a degree. Currently morons are coasting by with a cool 2.5 getting the same degree I have so in order to distinguish myself from them I need to spend more time and money getting a M. Sc. (which i am going to do regardless, but that's besides the point) Why do you feel grades are of such importance (for character)? Why do people define themself through grades? It's pathetic. Your character isn't going to get you into graduate school or get you research grants to show the world you actually are capable at something other than basic memorization. Sorry to tell you but these days a B Sc is as good as a BA in terms of getting a job because everyone has one now since the requirements to get one are objectively low I was an open minded child once, but then i grew up and got experienced. IMO its you with the pathetic outlook. The "morons" with a "cool" 2.5 aren't going to grad school and wont be looking to get research grants so don't worry. still doesn't mean they deserve a B SC either sorry, its less about the number but more about how much effort you put into it the number is a reflection of how much effort you put in so I don't know what you're talking about. You seem bitter that people with a GPA with < 3 can get degrees. | ||
LRObot
United States153 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:54 TanTzoR wrote: Show nested quote + On March 13 2012 16:47 LRObot wrote: On March 13 2012 16:45 savagebeavers wrote: On March 13 2012 16:35 OsoVega wrote: On March 13 2012 16:12 Zergmeister wrote: All levels of education should be free, it is for the greater good of the human race, money's importans pale in comparison. How can you even suggest to deny humans from education, simply because they have fewer resources than you? by that logic, no 3rd world humans would EVER recive any edjucation, neither would orphans, or poor people. It completely boggles my mind, that we still live in a world, where free education isn't a basic human right. BTW. Here in Denmark, you get paid as a student to educate yourself beyond primary school. Free education is impossible. In order for someone to receive an education they must either produce the wealth needed to buy it or someone else needs to produce the wealth needed to buy it. The idea of a right to something that does not occur in nature contradicts the entire ideas of the actual rights which we need in order to survive. The single fundamental right, from which all other rights are corollaries is the right to life, which means, the right to the actions (but not objects) necessary for a rational being to survive and achieve happiness. A corollary of this right to life is the right to property because if a man is to sustain his life by his own actions and reason, he must have the right to the use and disposal of the products of his actions. The man who has no right to the product of his actions has no means to sustain his life. The right to life is not the right to the objects necessary for survival and happiness. If one has the right to the objects needed for survival and happiness, that means someone else is obliged to produce those objects for him. If one is obliged to forfeit the products of his mind, that means he has no right to those objects which means he has no right to property and therefore no right to life. Economic rights destroy individual rights. How can you say free education is impossible when it exists in so many countries? There is no such thing as free education. Someone along the way has to pay for it, whether it be taxpayers or the student. Stop playing on words u_u, ofc he is speaking about taxpayers. OK, if that's the case, then it'll still never be free. The majority of voters fall in the age group of 50+. They certainly won't vote to pay more on education than they would, say medicare, speaking of the U.S. again. | ||
Kamais Ookin
Canada591 Posts
On March 13 2012 17:08 LRObot wrote: You do know a shit-ton of money is going towards useless warfare that could be put towards education right?Show nested quote + On March 13 2012 16:54 TanTzoR wrote: On March 13 2012 16:47 LRObot wrote: On March 13 2012 16:45 savagebeavers wrote: On March 13 2012 16:35 OsoVega wrote: On March 13 2012 16:12 Zergmeister wrote: All levels of education should be free, it is for the greater good of the human race, money's importans pale in comparison. How can you even suggest to deny humans from education, simply because they have fewer resources than you? by that logic, no 3rd world humans would EVER recive any edjucation, neither would orphans, or poor people. It completely boggles my mind, that we still live in a world, where free education isn't a basic human right. BTW. Here in Denmark, you get paid as a student to educate yourself beyond primary school. Free education is impossible. In order for someone to receive an education they must either produce the wealth needed to buy it or someone else needs to produce the wealth needed to buy it. The idea of a right to something that does not occur in nature contradicts the entire ideas of the actual rights which we need in order to survive. The single fundamental right, from which all other rights are corollaries is the right to life, which means, the right to the actions (but not objects) necessary for a rational being to survive and achieve happiness. A corollary of this right to life is the right to property because if a man is to sustain his life by his own actions and reason, he must have the right to the use and disposal of the products of his actions. The man who has no right to the product of his actions has no means to sustain his life. The right to life is not the right to the objects necessary for survival and happiness. If one has the right to the objects needed for survival and happiness, that means someone else is obliged to produce those objects for him. If one is obliged to forfeit the products of his mind, that means he has no right to those objects which means he has no right to property and therefore no right to life. Economic rights destroy individual rights. How can you say free education is impossible when it exists in so many countries? There is no such thing as free education. Someone along the way has to pay for it, whether it be taxpayers or the student. Stop playing on words u_u, ofc he is speaking about taxpayers. OK, if that's the case, then it'll still never be free. The majority of voters fall in the age group of 50+. They certainly won't vote to pay more on education than they would, say medicare, speaking of the U.S. again. | ||
sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:22 ballasdontcry wrote: Show nested quote + On March 13 2012 16:09 sunprince wrote: What a ridiculously biased OP and title. Education can't be free. What's really being asked is: "Should education be subsidized by taxpayers?" It already is to a extent in pretty much every public university. At least in Canada. I shake my head when I see how good the Quebecers got it when they only pay like 3-4k a year in undergrad tuition fees. I'm aware that it is. The operative word of the question is the word "should". | ||
LRObot
United States153 Posts
On March 13 2012 17:13 Kamais Ookin wrote: Show nested quote + You do know a shit-ton of money is going towards useless warfare that could be put towards education right?On March 13 2012 17:08 LRObot wrote: On March 13 2012 16:54 TanTzoR wrote: On March 13 2012 16:47 LRObot wrote: On March 13 2012 16:45 savagebeavers wrote: On March 13 2012 16:35 OsoVega wrote: On March 13 2012 16:12 Zergmeister wrote: All levels of education should be free, it is for the greater good of the human race, money's importans pale in comparison. How can you even suggest to deny humans from education, simply because they have fewer resources than you? by that logic, no 3rd world humans would EVER recive any edjucation, neither would orphans, or poor people. It completely boggles my mind, that we still live in a world, where free education isn't a basic human right. BTW. Here in Denmark, you get paid as a student to educate yourself beyond primary school. Free education is impossible. In order for someone to receive an education they must either produce the wealth needed to buy it or someone else needs to produce the wealth needed to buy it. The idea of a right to something that does not occur in nature contradicts the entire ideas of the actual rights which we need in order to survive. The single fundamental right, from which all other rights are corollaries is the right to life, which means, the right to the actions (but not objects) necessary for a rational being to survive and achieve happiness. A corollary of this right to life is the right to property because if a man is to sustain his life by his own actions and reason, he must have the right to the use and disposal of the products of his actions. The man who has no right to the product of his actions has no means to sustain his life. The right to life is not the right to the objects necessary for survival and happiness. If one has the right to the objects needed for survival and happiness, that means someone else is obliged to produce those objects for him. If one is obliged to forfeit the products of his mind, that means he has no right to those objects which means he has no right to property and therefore no right to life. Economic rights destroy individual rights. How can you say free education is impossible when it exists in so many countries? There is no such thing as free education. Someone along the way has to pay for it, whether it be taxpayers or the student. Stop playing on words u_u, ofc he is speaking about taxpayers. OK, if that's the case, then it'll still never be free. The majority of voters fall in the age group of 50+. They certainly won't vote to pay more on education than they would, say medicare, speaking of the U.S. again. Yeah, so what? It doesn't stop our country from deploying its military. | ||
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