Anyway free or nearly free education is exactly how it should be I believe
Should education be free? - Page 7
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Do not derail the thread with discussions about other topics like global warming. | ||
kuriz
Denmark141 Posts
Anyway free or nearly free education is exactly how it should be I believe | ||
Poffel
471 Posts
On March 13 2012 17:53 xrapture wrote: "education" is free because you have the internet and the library. the piece of paper called a diploma you want should not be free. You seem to imply, firstly, that access to the internet is free and, secondly, that there is no qualitative difference between the education you receive from attending courses at a University and the education you get from reading Wikipedia articles. I'd consider both assumptions to be quite a stretch, to say the least. | ||
Gustis
Lithuania70 Posts
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targ
Malaysia445 Posts
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Mecker
Sweden219 Posts
This fall I'll be attending one of the top technical universities in the world, for free, something I could never do in the states. I will repay this for the rest of my life with a profitable employment. (It's called win-win, you might've heard of it) | ||
Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On March 13 2012 15:42 Datz2Ez wrote: Hi fellow members, Let's start first to give you the context of my thread I live in montreal, quebec, Canada. We live in a society that was founded mostly with left politic. Our health system is free and our education fees are low. At the moment, we pay around 1075$/semester (+/- 2000$/year) to go to university. Even if the fees our low, the average student end university with +/- 15 000 in dept. Our governement wants us to now pay 1600$/year more. In other terms, they are asking the students to double the dept they end with Students are now on strike and asking the governement to cancel the raise. You have to be aware that this only represent 1.2% of the global education budget so we are not talking about a huge sum. Where do I stand? To be honest, I always tought everyone should have equal access to education. The best way would be to make it free. I think we should favor more an 'elitism' way of choosing the students by looking more into the grades. I will not get into the details and argue on both side but I was really interrested to see what people all over think about education. EDIT: We pay around 40-45% in tax... so yea we have low fees but we pay it back in some way. P.S. This is no democrat vs republicans Forgive my poor english it is not my first language. It never was free, and given what you said (government wants you to now pay 1600$/year more), the government no longer has the funds to provide a subsidy to the education. Perhaps you would like to include a spending graph for your government or a profit/loss for Quebec's budget. | ||
MethodSC
United States928 Posts
On March 13 2012 18:00 Poffel wrote: You seem to imply, firstly, that access to the internet is free and, secondly, that there is no qualitative difference between the education you receive from attending courses at a University and the education you get from reading Wikipedia articles. I'd consider both assumptions to be quite a stretch, to say the least. Since when is reading wikipedia articles the only way to retrieve information on the internet? Also, provide at least 1 study that shows that learning in university is more effective than independent learning. | ||
Teoman
Norway382 Posts
On March 13 2012 17:20 askTeivospy wrote: Not really, because < 3 GPA means they wont get a job or be able to get their masters. They're stuck kek. I just think its hilarious that people need to academically distinguish themselves further from the riff raff who dont think those student loans will come back to bite em I also think its sad that a lot of people think that higher learning is bachelors degree. You can get the same knowledge from reading articles on wikipedia. Higher learning starts with Masters, which is when university starts paying you stipend (at least where I live) + any grant money to "go to school". That is actually some of the most misinformed statements i have ever heard. Where i study now we get an F if we use Wikipedia as citation and when i look on wikipedia and compare it to most academical sources, it turns out that wiki is either overly simplified, or just plain wrong. In addition, My education in law includes exactly the same as a bachelor degree expept for the last 2 years when you learn a little bit more. Both are higher education. On March 13 2012 17:01 Euronyme wrote: In Sweden you get payed about 300 dollars a month as a university student (which you don't have to pay back), you get discounts on just about anything from computers to bus tickets, you get shorter queues for apartments that you can rent really cheap while studying and it's all completely free. You do have to pay for the books though. You can also take student loans which have pretty gosh darn good interest rates. Just recently the right wing party removed the possibility for foreigners outside of the EU to have free education here as well. Having an educated population is one of the corner stones of democracy. You can't have democracy if you have a population that doesn't even know what it's voting for. It's one of the most important thing in society. If the majority in a country lacks higher education you might as well turn into a dictatorship, because the public can't be held responsible to make good decisions. Edit. Of course Sweden is in no way unique for this. Just an example as I actually know how the system works here. Hey! I live in Norway where i don't get payed an ear for my education (though its like 100 dollar a year :D), get no discount on anything whatsoever except public transport occasionally, Guess that oils a bitch :D But yea, besides what Euronyme said, Education should be entirely free, since paid education will only make class separation larger in that only rich people can be lawyers etc. It's the horrible truth about capitalism that even the creators of it supported that someone will be lesser of than others. I for one cannot understand how someone can in any way support or create an ideology that will not give people equal opportunitys. Not that wealth brings happiness, but i think it brings opportunity. Well, higher education should not be for the wealthier and it should not put young people in debt for the rest of their life :D | ||
Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
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Grovbolle
Denmark3803 Posts
Oh wait, I live in Denmark, FUCK YEAH :D | ||
anomalopidae
Slovenia549 Posts
On March 13 2012 18:12 MethodSC wrote: Since when is reading wikipedia articles the only way to retrieve information on the internet? Also, provide at least 1 study that shows that learning in university is more effective than independent learning. I'd say that studying medicine on university tops pretty much everything you can do independently unless you want to go around cutting people to see what they're made of. Also the courses that require high knowledge of physics and math and any kind of experimental work are also a lot better in university (engineering, architecture etc.) I don't need a study showing me this when it's common sense. | ||
Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
Yes all education should be free, up to a max time for each individual person (so you cant get education your whole life for free) I strongly believe that on average every penny spend on education is an investment with a positive financial return in the end for society. We should spend alot more on education,and maybe a bit less on healthcare. Healthcare is an investment with little financial returns for society as a whole. | ||
Velr
Switzerland10414 Posts
Education is to important to send people in debt or any other troubles for it. | ||
KainiT
Austria392 Posts
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oGoZenob
France1503 Posts
On March 13 2012 17:58 anomalopidae wrote: I live in a country where pretty much any education is free (my tuition this year was 30 euros) unless you choose to go to private institutions (which are usually worse than free ones) and while this all seems good and well as students have large discounts on meals, can work as student which means they don't have to pay taxes, it also means there's a lot of abuse of this and many people extend their studies to double or triple the required time It is also becoming a problem as people do not want to learn professions that require lower education, since you can go to university as long as you pass, meaning you get 50%, while university should be for people that are better than majority, which means we're starting to lack lower rated jobs while on other hand we have a lot of unemployed young people with high education Funny thing is that those professions that require lower education often pay more, since you can open private business and with the lack of these they charge high prices tl:dr higher education can be free but there have to be standards and limits as to who can attend it It's pretty much the same thing in france, we have a lot of 25 year old student with masters or doctorate in useless fields, that just end up cashier or flipping burgers. But here we have a system called "grandes écoles" which are basically schools made for the top notch student (the engineering ones are free, but I think the manager and salesmen one are not free). You often have to pass really difficult tests to get in | ||
JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
However, I do not think that the government should come up for bad parenting, as the German media wants the German politicians to do. I mean, why should I pay for something, that is a direct effect of some parents not doing their job well (not talking about abusing children, but not looking after the educational process of their children)? | ||
Mafe
Germany5917 Posts
On March 13 2012 17:53 xrapture wrote: "education" is free because you have the internet and the library. the piece of paper called a diploma you want should not be free. Do not confuse information and education. And really, you want people to pay for their grades/exams/diploma even though they might have acquired all the knowledge they need? Taking exams to proove your knowledge is about the least expensive part (from the state's perspective) of higher education studies in most subjects. | ||
Hipsv
135 Posts
With that said the current education system has a lot of useless programs you can get degree's in, for example a degree in Outdoor Recreation is quite simply a useless degree for slacker's who don't want to do any work in their lives. Regardless of the useless programs however keeping free post secondary education with incentives to use it will result in a more enlightened society which is always good. | ||
Poffel
471 Posts
On March 13 2012 18:12 MethodSC wrote: Since when is reading wikipedia articles the only way to retrieve information on the internet? Also, provide at least 1 study that shows that learning in university is more effective than independent learning. As anomalopidae has already pointed out, a University offers quite a bit of infrastructure that a "hobbyist" simply cannot acquire by himself. But since you'd like to read a study on the incompleteness of independent learning, how about Tuovinen/Sweller (1999). "A comparison of cognitive load associated with discovery learning and worked examples". Journal of Educational Psychology 91 (2): 334–341? On a sidenote, the next time you're making a contraintuitive statement and I say that I consider it to be quite a stretch, it'll be up to you to provide evidence for your claim, not up to me to disprove you, ok? | ||
CorsairHero
Canada9487 Posts
On March 13 2012 17:20 askTeivospy wrote: Not really, because < 3 GPA means they wont get a job or be able to get their masters. They're stuck kek. I just think its hilarious that people need to academically distinguish themselves further from the riff raff who dont think those student loans will come back to bite em I also think its sad that a lot of people think that higher learning is bachelors degree. You can get the same knowledge from reading articles on wikipedia. Higher learning starts with Masters, which is when university starts paying you stipend (at least where I live) + any grant money to "go to school". Then it looks like you'll be fine getting a job / getting a masters so I don't know what your going on about complaining about the "riff raff". Having hire GPA will get you an edge that's for sure. I know quite a few engineers who might not have the highest GPA but are much more well rounded people. Last time I checked, grad school uses textbooks / internet as well. Some undergrad classes are even taught jointly with a graduate class. If by higher learning, you mean research, then you can do that in undergrad by doing an honours degree with a thesis to get access to "higher learning". Of course, not as much time is spent doing the research. | ||
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