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Source: http://www.aikenstandard.com/story/0315Followup-with-school--3862406
tl:dr - Teacher reads Ender's Game to her class as part of an attempt to get kids more interested in reading. 14 year old kid tells his mom, she complains to the school, teacher is put on "leave".
I read Ender's Game (and indeed most of the series) around that age or younger, and it didn't scar me in any lasting way, in fact, it made me more interested in reading in general. However, I suppose I'm not indicative of every child that age. I also read Animorphs (which was actually really violent, reflecting back on it), and I don't know if those would pass the test either.
Do you think Orson Scott Card's books are too "pornographic" or offensive? How about other books that are written for that age range?
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EDIT: Nvm I confused Ender Games with Hunger Games
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props to that teacher, that is probably my favorite book / series.
as for teaching it in school.. if my junior year english teacher (high school) can teach Looking for Alaska, Ender's Game is totally fine. In fact, the worst scene i can think of off the top of my head might be the fight in the shower? The whole extermination thing is probably an issue, but it's not played out like that in the story at all. People probably read "omg book about exterminating aliens!" and freak out..
edit: for those who havent read / heard of looking for alaska, it's got some pretty explicit depictions of sexual encounters- oral sex being one of them
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when i was in 7th grade Ender's Game was required reading for my class....
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United States5162 Posts
I've not read Ender's Game, but I did read a lot of Animorphs, which do deal with pretty mature morality concepts along with general violence, and imo books like that are what kids need to be interested in reading.
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LOL, pornographic? It's a book about, like, 6 year olds. And as far as I remember there's only the one shower thing.
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Wow how pathetic can you get.
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jesus christ holy fuck what the fuck
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On March 16 2012 07:14 RonNation wrote: when i was in 7th grade Ender's Game was required reading for my class.... Yea me to, and i know my brother read this also when he was in middle school... What a joke lol, have these people watched tv in the last few years???
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On March 16 2012 07:15 ThaZenith wrote: LOL, pornographic? It's a book about, like, 6 year olds. And as far as I remember there's only the one shower thing. There's also Petra being naked. Its mentioned once, and in the book the kids are told not to freak out about it because its not a big deal. There's a lesson in there somewhere...
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I don't recall any porn in enders game.. there's ton of violence though and its graphic.
The way ender describes valerie though maybe it could be considered incestuous lol. He really loves her. /jk
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Fahrenheit 451 should be required reading for everyone involved in this "story."
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Congratulations america.
User was warned for this post
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I personally couldn't understand why this book was in my library after I read it at school. I didn't complain though, it was a great book. This is probably one of those rap listening "you don't know me" kind of kids. The book is technically categorized for his age anyway, Teacher shouldn't get in trouble for this, is there a way to contact the school on this topic? I would like to write them a letter personally.
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On March 16 2012 07:19 Monsen wrote: Congratulations america.
This incident is clearly indicative of the policy in every school in America.
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The objection which many people are plainly missing was that the teacher did not use the proper procedures to get the book authorized. If that teacher had done their job right this wouldn't have been a fiasco. If the school had notified police like it is procedurally required to, then none of this would have happened. It's not so much about the books contents as it is the school and teacher just doing whatever they'd like.
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and god forbid a teacher working his brains out day in day out to help educate our kids not bother to get a reading book authorised
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United States5162 Posts
Looking a little closer, the issue seems to be mostly about the teacher not going through the proper channels to get the book approved, as well as the fact that the school didn't report the crime(? I don't know what crime happened, unless they're seriously accusing them of showing porn to kids when it's a critically acclaimed book for kids 12+). Still pretty absurd, though.
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Wow...... there were a few scenes where the characters were naked but I wouldn't call it pornographic in any way. Petra was naked once, the boys are naked in their bunks, and Ender made them run through the halls naked when they didn't change in time. And all of this was when they were under 10 (if I remember correctly).
I think I read it when I was 13, and it was instantly one of my favorite books (because of the stategy aspects and such like I'm suspecting many of you on TL). My sister read it in highschool (out of a choice of several books). don't remember how old she was, sophmore or junior I think.
Imo, its pretty stupid and goes along with the whole parents who "bubble wrap" everything that their child goes near
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Enders game was one of the first books that I really loved while reading, and because of it I started to read a lot more. It is really unfortunate that the parents acted so stupidly.
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On March 16 2012 07:23 Aberu wrote: The objection which many people are plainly missing was that the teacher did not use the proper procedures to get the book authorized. If that teacher had done their job right this wouldn't have been a fiasco. If the school had notified police like it is procedurally required to, then none of this would have happened. It's not so much about the books contents as it is the school and teacher just doing whatever they'd like. I'd agree with you if it was actually a controversial book. But Ender's Game has been used in schools across the countries for probably over a decade, read by children of all ages, and is considered a Sci-Fi classic. It's a thinking book, but there's really nothing all that offensive in it. It'd be like raising hell over The Giver.
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I picked up books of what I expect was about the same level of maturity around that age, and I believe that it only increased my interest in reading and appreciating genre.
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On March 16 2012 07:22 Warlock40 wrote:This incident is clearly indicative of the policy in every school in America.
Haha I doubt he will understand the sarcasm, country bashers aren't the smartest bunch :/
on topic: haven't read the book myself but I know plenty of people who enjoyed the series and didn't grow up to be psychopaths, I can't stand this bubble wrapping of children.
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On March 16 2012 07:23 Aberu wrote: The objection which many people are plainly missing was that the teacher did not use the proper procedures to get the book authorized. If that teacher had done their job right this wouldn't have been a fiasco. If the school had notified police like it is procedurally required to, then none of this would have happened. It's not so much about the books contents as it is the school and teacher just doing whatever they'd like.
Wait. A teacher has to get permission from the police that its ok to read a book? That would be the top of bureaucracy.
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On March 16 2012 07:27 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:23 Aberu wrote: The objection which many people are plainly missing was that the teacher did not use the proper procedures to get the book authorized. If that teacher had done their job right this wouldn't have been a fiasco. If the school had notified police like it is procedurally required to, then none of this would have happened. It's not so much about the books contents as it is the school and teacher just doing whatever they'd like. I'd agree with you if it was actually a controversial book. But Ender's Game has been used in schools across the countries for probably over a decade, read by children of all ages, and is considered a Sci-Fi classic. It's a thinking book, but there's really nothing all that offensive in it. It'd be like raising hell over The Giver. The Giver is actually a pretty widely banned book. People mis-interpret it and think it supports the use of Euthanasia to make a utopian society, but anyone who read the book would know the opposite is true.
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Sounds like more 'let's censor everything' from crazy people with not enough stimulation in their lives. Pity them, they have to get worked up about something I guess...
Edit - I'd assume the wide majority of people would not consider this pornography at all. I've not read it myself, but after some quick research on the good old interwebs it hardly sounds like it. In the article it even states the book is recommended for 12+
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On March 16 2012 07:22 Warlock40 wrote:This incident is clearly indicative of the policy in every school in America.
Not my point. "Incidents" like these seem exclusively possible in the only western county that is discussing contraception in 2012.
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I remember when I was younger .. 6th or 7th grade our teacher read a child called it.. which is a little worse than this...
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United States5162 Posts
On March 16 2012 07:28 Undrass wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:23 Aberu wrote: The objection which many people are plainly missing was that the teacher did not use the proper procedures to get the book authorized. If that teacher had done their job right this wouldn't have been a fiasco. If the school had notified police like it is procedurally required to, then none of this would have happened. It's not so much about the books contents as it is the school and teacher just doing whatever they'd like. Wait. A teacher has to get permission from the police that its ok to read a book? That would be the top of bureaucracy. No, the teacher didn't get it approved by the administration, which is why she was put on leave. And the administration didn't tell the police that the family was accusing them of showing porn to students(which is ridiculous imo). Separate things.
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On March 16 2012 07:14 Myles wrote: I've not read Ender's Game, but I did read a lot of Animorphs, which do deal with pretty mature morality concepts along with general violence, and imo books like that are what kids need to be interested in reading.
Difference is, Animorphs gave me nightmares.
I dreamed of Yeerks crawling into my skull.
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On March 16 2012 07:31 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:28 Undrass wrote:On March 16 2012 07:23 Aberu wrote: The objection which many people are plainly missing was that the teacher did not use the proper procedures to get the book authorized. If that teacher had done their job right this wouldn't have been a fiasco. If the school had notified police like it is procedurally required to, then none of this would have happened. It's not so much about the books contents as it is the school and teacher just doing whatever they'd like. Wait. A teacher has to get permission from the police that its ok to read a book? That would be the top of bureaucracy. No, the teacher didn't get it approved by the administration, which is why she was put on leave. And the administration didn't tell the police that the family was accusing them of showing porn to students(which is ridiculous imo). Separate things. ah, thanks. sorry for misunderstanding.
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On March 16 2012 07:29 Funguuuuu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:27 Requizen wrote:On March 16 2012 07:23 Aberu wrote: The objection which many people are plainly missing was that the teacher did not use the proper procedures to get the book authorized. If that teacher had done their job right this wouldn't have been a fiasco. If the school had notified police like it is procedurally required to, then none of this would have happened. It's not so much about the books contents as it is the school and teacher just doing whatever they'd like. I'd agree with you if it was actually a controversial book. But Ender's Game has been used in schools across the countries for probably over a decade, read by children of all ages, and is considered a Sci-Fi classic. It's a thinking book, but there's really nothing all that offensive in it. It'd be like raising hell over The Giver. The Giver is actually a pretty widely banned book. That.... what? How? I read that in like, 5th grade. In class.
Fuck that noise.
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Wow... that is just fucking dumb. Ender's Game is one of the most brilliant adolescent books out there, so inspiring and original, and cynical. God it's so goddamn good.
And what the fuck, Orson Scott Card is Mormon... so I really don't think that he had any sort of intention of making it "pornographic." He may be a bit more of a liberal Mormon, but their philosophy is still ingrained within him.
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I don't know how anyone could possibly take any offense to Ender's Game... This is retarded.
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kinda Off Topic: Is this series any good for reading it at age 25? I just ordered ender's game spontaneously :D
also, is this the right book to start?
short PM suffices as an answer, thanks guys!
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On March 16 2012 07:30 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:22 Warlock40 wrote:On March 16 2012 07:19 Monsen wrote: Congratulations america. This incident is clearly indicative of the policy in every school in America. Not my point. "Incidents" like these seem exclusively possible in the only western county that is discussing contraception in 2012.
Leave
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On March 16 2012 07:28 BreakfastBurrito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:22 Warlock40 wrote:On March 16 2012 07:19 Monsen wrote: Congratulations america. This incident is clearly indicative of the policy in every school in America. Haha I doubt he will understand the sarcasm, country bashers aren't the smartest bunch :/ on topic: haven't read the book myself but I know plenty of people who enjoyed the series and didn't grow up to be psychopaths, I can't stand this bubble wrapping of children.
Haha, I doubt you understand the irony of your post. Book banners and teacher suspenders aren't the smartest bunch. See what I did there? Probably not- MURICA.
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People being naked doesnt make something pornographic. If it was pornographic, it would be child porn and probably not as readily available as it is.
PS: Props to the parents to actually caring what their child is doing. (Although it resulted in this bullshit.)
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On March 16 2012 07:23 Aberu wrote: The objection which many people are plainly missing was that the teacher did not use the proper procedures to get the book authorized. If that teacher had done their job right this wouldn't have been a fiasco. If the school had notified police like it is procedurally required to, then none of this would have happened. It's not so much about the books contents as it is the school and teacher just doing whatever they'd like.
Yeah, I think this is the key point. which book was used isnt really important.
As an aside though, it is a great book.
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T.T
If we read Ender's Game in school, I'm pretty sure a lot more people would be interested in English.
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Unfortunately, you have to educate the parents as well as the students about the variety and understanding of literature before reading this kind of material -____________-
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On March 16 2012 07:36 elsation wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:23 Aberu wrote: The objection which many people are plainly missing was that the teacher did not use the proper procedures to get the book authorized. If that teacher had done their job right this wouldn't have been a fiasco. If the school had notified police like it is procedurally required to, then none of this would have happened. It's not so much about the books contents as it is the school and teacher just doing whatever they'd like. Yeah, I think this is the key point. which book was used isnt really important. As an aside though, it is a great book.
I feel that this is more of an excuse than an actual reason. If the school thought the book is proper, I think the teacher would be reprimanded maybe with an official letter. However, the teacher is put on administrative leave which seems (to me at least) to be much more serious.
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On March 16 2012 07:36 elsation wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:23 Aberu wrote: The objection which many people are plainly missing was that the teacher did not use the proper procedures to get the book authorized. If that teacher had done their job right this wouldn't have been a fiasco. If the school had notified police like it is procedurally required to, then none of this would have happened. It's not so much about the books contents as it is the school and teacher just doing whatever they'd like. Yeah, I think this is the key point. which book was used isnt really important. As an aside though, it is a great book.
I'm not sure about that. Proper procedures or not, the outrage was obviously about the (supposed) contents of the reading, no?
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Ender's Game was awesome. How dare they!
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On March 16 2012 07:19 Monsen wrote: Congratulations america.
Though I would not generalize an entire country based off of one incident but... This post? From a German poster..... the irony.
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On March 16 2012 07:22 Warlock40 wrote:This incident is clearly indicative of the policy in every school in America.
Among the Developed countries, The US, I think, is the only one that I can think of that has these type problems. I can't really figure out what's the problem but I think it's about the urge of the US people to complain about anyone & anything they do not like.
Americans really love their freedom to complain.
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On March 16 2012 07:22 Warlock40 wrote:This incident is clearly indicative of the policy in every school in America.
FUCK YEAH!
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I was forced to read this book against my will as Summer reading one year. Ironically enough, it instantly became my favorite book and the whole Ender/Bean series is possibly the best science fiction I've had the chance to get my hands on. It's ridiculous how thin-skinned some of the public is to not even be able to handle something as soft as Ender's Game. There are mature themes in it but it's not overwhelmingly explicit. Someone should send the Song of Ice and Fire series to this kid and his mother and ask them for a review.
The issue wouldn't have existed if the book hadn't been viewed in a negative manner. The fact that it didn't go through the proper channels to be authorized is irrelevant. It might have led to this story being a big deal but I think the bigger issue is that a high school aged kid couldn't be exposed to anything other than Disney fantasy without feeling offended.
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Only in america.
User was warned for this post
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Another great book ruined by a bitch sheltering parent. Ender's game is pretty mild in comparison to some of the books we read at my school, I can't believe someone actually opposes it being taught.
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On March 16 2012 07:41 Dave-o wrote:Though I would not generalize an entire country based off of one incident but... This post? From a German poster..... the irony.
Because of all those news from Germany where the content of books that are widely considered classics are suddenly "pornographic". Also Germans are on the forefront of doubting evolution and questioning whether birth control is morally ok in 2012. Yeah, we are a backward country- I'm a hypocrite.
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Fuck, I have given this book to like 12 of my 8th graders. No matter what anyone says, the book has touched millions and I stand by it as a great work of literature.
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oh come on, ender's game is mild -_-
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the picture that's with the article is badass. makes me want to read the book again.
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On March 16 2012 07:44 shaftofpleasure wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:22 Warlock40 wrote:On March 16 2012 07:19 Monsen wrote: Congratulations america. This incident is clearly indicative of the policy in every school in America. Among the Developed countries, The US, I think, is the only one that I can think of that has these type problems. I can't really figure out what's the problem but I think it's about the urge of the US people to complain about anyone & anything they do not like. Americans really love their freedom to complain.
I feel like because this happened in one place it could totally happen in another place. Sometimes doing a morally right thing can become something legally wrong. It's quite sad.
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Only in America.
Shame I haven't read this book either. I've always put off reading it.
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Ender's game was the first book I personally couldn't put down once I got into it during my freshman year, it surprises me that a teacher got in trouble for a good book
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On March 16 2012 07:40 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:36 elsation wrote:On March 16 2012 07:23 Aberu wrote: The objection which many people are plainly missing was that the teacher did not use the proper procedures to get the book authorized. If that teacher had done their job right this wouldn't have been a fiasco. If the school had notified police like it is procedurally required to, then none of this would have happened. It's not so much about the books contents as it is the school and teacher just doing whatever they'd like. Yeah, I think this is the key point. which book was used isnt really important. As an aside though, it is a great book. I'm not sure about that. Proper procedures or not, the outrage was obviously about the (supposed) contents of the reading, no?
I would think if the book was approved by the school, they might have more knowledge of the book and assume the complaints were based on ultra conservative views or a grudge against the specific teacher or some such. They could then make plans to move the child to a separate class when the reading began.
The teacher has showed they will read a book to their kids without approval, it is not out of the realms of possibility that they may read a properly inappropriate book.
The idea that Enders game is pornographic is laughable, and if the teacher was put on administrative leave for reading it then there should be outrage. However I think if the proper procedures were followed this story would not exist as it could have been solved quickly and amicably.
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I always loved reading as a child and my family and I never had any problems personally with me reading or being exposed to more mature levels of content compared to what the standard of the day was (Harry Potter etc). In many ways I think that the parent who complained is overreacting to the content present in the book, I certainly wouldn't have taken exception to it at all back in the day. I think that at their age especially it's important for the subject matter and content of books to begin to be freed of the kid gloves so that they can develop maturity in their reading selection and not become trapped in infantile settings and situations. I remember reading The Power of One (Not the censored/young adult version) at that age and being none the worse off for it (to my knowledge ;-D).
Similarly, In high school (I went to a private Christian school) we had a lot of books in the library which I think a lot of grown ups at the time might have shied away from or found fairly repulsive in some ways. I remember reading Kiss The Girls by James Patterson, approved by my teacher, for a book review assignment. That book and the book previous to it, which I also read for an assignment, contains some pretty messed up situations. If you've read it I'm sure you'll never forget the scene involving a snake...
With all those things being said there are some factors to be considered. Clearly I'm all for children/teenagers beginning to be exposed to more mature content in literature when it's appropriate. However I can understand on some levels the parent's issues with this. I mean, I think deep down most parents have limitations or expectations about what their children should and should be exposed to in film, print and images. Obviously this is going to differ from family to family and even from parent to parent. I can imagine that perhaps in some ways the parent would be more offended by the fact that this book was not "authorised" or consulted upon with the parents. That raises other issues and would probably mean the book wouldn't be read due to the fact that the process of parental approval would likely make it to time consuming and frustrating to introduce anything outside of the standard curriculum.
This is where part of the problem is. If everything has to go through this process then nothing will end up being read as I'm sure there will always be at least one conservative parent who's going to make it difficult for everyone else. It will take too long for books to be approved and any precedent set with regards to the level of content will effectively make progress impossible.
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Well that's one way to get misantrophy trending on twitter.
e. I can't fathom what else you can say.
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On March 16 2012 07:49 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:41 Dave-o wrote:On March 16 2012 07:19 Monsen wrote: Congratulations america. Though I would not generalize an entire country based off of one incident but... This post? From a German poster..... the irony. Because of all those news from Germany where the content of books that are widely considered classics are suddenly "pornographic". Also Germans are on the forefront of doubting evolution and questioning whether birth control is morally ok in 2012. Yeah, we are a backward country- I'm a hypocrite.
Not a hypocrite. A JEW KILLER.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Well, I read Ender's Game for the first time at the fairly advanced age of 27. My GF at the time had a bunch of the books in the series, and as it was one of her all time favourites and I am fairly literate, I gave it a try. I didn't really enjoy it, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what was so off putting to me personally about the book.
Until, that is, I read this analysis.
http://plover.net/~bonds/ender.html
"Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, which purports to be a classic sci-fi novel, but is actually, I now realise, a work of pornography. Some readers might be deceived by the book's scrupulous avoidance of sexual content, but it just happens that sex is not the particular fetish of Ender's Game: it finds its gratification elsewhere."
Please read this dudes take on Ender's Game if you are at all curious as to why the 'porn' tag is being attached to scott cards work.
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Being a teacher myself, you absolutely have to ask the Principal about reading books that aren't in the curriculum. Just to be safe, always ask, never assume. However a "leave" is way out of league. Teachers are being victimized and it has to stop!
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On March 16 2012 07:46 Tanukki wrote: Only in america.
Just like the school shootings, amiright?
P.S. Finland had two high school and college shootings in 2007 and 2008. I do not condone the "X happened in this country so it is because of this country's policies" idea.
Ender's Game was for ~10 years my #1 book. It has since slipped to #5 or so and lies there purely due to nostalgia -- I've read it too many (9) times.
As for its violence: well, Harry Potter has close to as much violence as Ender's Game. Wait, bad example...(Harry Potter is banned in some schools)
Edit: misread something
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Well, there goes that 14 year olds social life, those kids will eat him alive for this.
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On March 16 2012 08:00 elsation wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:40 Monsen wrote:On March 16 2012 07:36 elsation wrote:On March 16 2012 07:23 Aberu wrote: The objection which many people are plainly missing was that the teacher did not use the proper procedures to get the book authorized. If that teacher had done their job right this wouldn't have been a fiasco. If the school had notified police like it is procedurally required to, then none of this would have happened. It's not so much about the books contents as it is the school and teacher just doing whatever they'd like. Yeah, I think this is the key point. which book was used isnt really important. As an aside though, it is a great book. I'm not sure about that. Proper procedures or not, the outrage was obviously about the (supposed) contents of the reading, no? I would think if the book was approved by the school, they might have more knowledge of the book and assume the complaints were based on ultra conservative views or a grudge against the specific teacher or some such. They could then make plans to move the child to a separate class when the reading began. The teacher has showed they will read a book to their kids without approval, it is not out of the realms of possibility that they may read a properly inappropriate book. The idea that Enders game is pornographic is laughable, and if the teacher was put on administrative leave for reading it then there should be outrage. However I think if the proper procedures were followed this story would not exist as it could have been solved quickly and amicably.
I don't disagree- if the teacher would have followed the proper procedures this would not have happened. This could have been avoided. However there is still a point to be made when teachers are subjected to such (fake?) outrage. Chances are the teacher thought along the same lines as you and never fathomed that a book like that needed official approval. Legally his/her mistake. Morally/rationally I find it hard not to sympathize with the teacher and find the parent(s) idiotic.
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On March 16 2012 07:56 AngryFarmer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:44 shaftofpleasure wrote:On March 16 2012 07:22 Warlock40 wrote:On March 16 2012 07:19 Monsen wrote: Congratulations america. This incident is clearly indicative of the policy in every school in America. Among the Developed countries, The US, I think, is the only one that I can think of that has these type problems. I can't really figure out what's the problem but I think it's about the urge of the US people to complain about anyone & anything they do not like. Americans really love their freedom to complain. I feel like because this happened in one place it could totally happen in another place. Sometimes doing a morally right thing can become something legally wrong. It's quite sad.
I am not saying it couldn't happen in another place but you mostly hear about these types of 'problems' from the US. This isn't about morals or legality. This is about common sense.
On March 16 2012 08:03 smokeyhoodoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:49 Monsen wrote:On March 16 2012 07:41 Dave-o wrote:On March 16 2012 07:19 Monsen wrote: Congratulations america. Though I would not generalize an entire country based off of one incident but... This post? From a German poster..... the irony. Because of all those news from Germany where the content of books that are widely considered classics are suddenly "pornographic". Also Germans are on the forefront of doubting evolution and questioning whether birth control is morally ok in 2012. Yeah, we are a backward country- I'm a hypocrite. Not a hypocrite. A JEW KILLER.
woaaaaaaah..
WOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH DAFUQ?
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On March 16 2012 08:07 TheWestWind wrote:Well, I read Ender's Game for the first time at the fairly advanced age of 27. My GF at the time had a bunch of the books in the series, and as it was one of her all time favourites and I am fairly literate, I gave it a try. I didn't really enjoy it, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what was so off putting to me personally about the book. Until, that is, I read this analysis. http://plover.net/~bonds/ender.html"Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, which purports to be a classic sci-fi novel, but is actually, I now realise, a work of pornography. Some readers might be deceived by the book's scrupulous avoidance of sexual content, but it just happens that sex is not the particular fetish of Ender's Game: it finds its gratification elsewhere." Please read this dudes take on Ender's Game if you are at all curious as to why the 'porn' tag is being attached to scott cards work. Read it. No clue what anything he said has to do with porn.
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United States5162 Posts
On March 16 2012 08:07 TheWestWind wrote:Well, I read Ender's Game for the first time at the fairly advanced age of 27. My GF at the time had a bunch of the books in the series, and as it was one of her all time favourites and I am fairly literate, I gave it a try. I didn't really enjoy it, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what was so off putting to me personally about the book. Until, that is, I read this analysis. http://plover.net/~bonds/ender.html"Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, which purports to be a classic sci-fi novel, but is actually, I now realise, a work of pornography. Some readers might be deceived by the book's scrupulous avoidance of sexual content, but it just happens that sex is not the particular fetish of Ender's Game: it finds its gratification elsewhere." Please read this dudes take on Ender's Game if you are at all curious as to why the 'porn' tag is being attached to scott cards work. That's an insane use of the word pornography. You can't have porn without sex, regardless of how superfluous you think the plot might be; which is also pretty insane considering it's a critically acclaimed book.
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the F$#$#King education system in America is going to S#it
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Obviously this mother had every right to be upset. I read ender's game when I was 14 at the request of my teacher and it slowly ruined my life. The blatant exposure to pornographic materials completely ripped down my sexual boundaries. I got a job at a strip club simply because it paid better than any other opportunities available to me at the time.... the fact I had to get naked in front of strangers didn't even seem like a big deal to me. Of course my mom found out and kicked me out of the house. Desperate, I met a patron at the strip club and started living with him. at 19 I was working at a strip club and basically living with a stranger who was over a decade older than me, but things really got ugly when I was introduced to the drugs. Heroin, cocaine, it didn't matter. Before I knew it I was caught with multiple possession charges. I was thrown in jail where I got regularly molested by the older inmates. And that is why 14 year olds shouldn't read ender's game.
Seriously, don't angry mothers have better things to do with their time? I know they have to bitch and complain about something, but surely they can find something to go after more menacing than a children's book.
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On March 16 2012 08:07 StinkyBoots wrote: Being a teacher myself, you absolutely have to ask the Principal about reading books that aren't in the curriculum. Just to be safe, always ask, never assume. However a "leave" is way out of league. Teachers are being victimized and it has to stop!
Fair enough. I think teachers get a really raw deal in a lot of ways. A lot of people expect them to do a lot of their parenting for them in terms of educating their children on a whole range of topics that should be handled by parents, and then they get crap for doing it the "wrong" way or going too far. Then there are situations like this where something relatively minor is being blown way out of proportion. Don't people just sit down any more and discuss things rationally instead of immediately running for the fire alarm and creating this kind of situation? Surely the parent could have come and spoken to the teacher and principal about this in an appointment where a more rational conclusion could be arrived ?
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On March 16 2012 08:07 TheWestWind wrote:Well, I read Ender's Game for the first time at the fairly advanced age of 27. My GF at the time had a bunch of the books in the series, and as it was one of her all time favourites and I am fairly literate, I gave it a try. I didn't really enjoy it, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what was so off putting to me personally about the book. Until, that is, I read this analysis. http://plover.net/~bonds/ender.html"Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, which purports to be a classic sci-fi novel, but is actually, I now realise, a work of pornography. Some readers might be deceived by the book's scrupulous avoidance of sexual content, but it just happens that sex is not the particular fetish of Ender's Game: it finds its gratification elsewhere." Please read this dudes take on Ender's Game if you are at all curious as to why the 'porn' tag is being attached to scott cards work. This text would probably be a lot better if the author knew what "pornography" means.
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On March 16 2012 08:12 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 08:07 TheWestWind wrote:Well, I read Ender's Game for the first time at the fairly advanced age of 27. My GF at the time had a bunch of the books in the series, and as it was one of her all time favourites and I am fairly literate, I gave it a try. I didn't really enjoy it, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what was so off putting to me personally about the book. Until, that is, I read this analysis. http://plover.net/~bonds/ender.html"Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, which purports to be a classic sci-fi novel, but is actually, I now realise, a work of pornography. Some readers might be deceived by the book's scrupulous avoidance of sexual content, but it just happens that sex is not the particular fetish of Ender's Game: it finds its gratification elsewhere." Please read this dudes take on Ender's Game if you are at all curious as to why the 'porn' tag is being attached to scott cards work. That's an insane use of the word pornography. You can't have porn without sex, regardless of how superfluous you think the plot might be; which is also pretty insane considering it's a critically acclaimed book.
The parent must be thinking about rule 34 while reading the parts about Valentine and Andrew. lololol
Seriously, we need a mod here.
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On March 16 2012 08:07 TheWestWind wrote:Well, I read Ender's Game for the first time at the fairly advanced age of 27. My GF at the time had a bunch of the books in the series, and as it was one of her all time favourites and I am fairly literate, I gave it a try. I didn't really enjoy it, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what was so off putting to me personally about the book. Until, that is, I read this analysis. http://plover.net/~bonds/ender.html"Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, which purports to be a classic sci-fi novel, but is actually, I now realise, a work of pornography. Some readers might be deceived by the book's scrupulous avoidance of sexual content, but it just happens that sex is not the particular fetish of Ender's Game: it finds its gratification elsewhere." Please read this dudes take on Ender's Game if you are at all curious as to why the 'porn' tag is being attached to scott cards work. It is this kind of crap that reminds me why it is so hard to take English/literature schlolars seriously.
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On March 16 2012 08:14 Tewks44 wrote: Obviously this mother had every right to be upset. I read ender's game when I was 14 at the request of my teacher and it slowly ruined my life. The blatant exposure to pornographic materials completely ripped down my sexual boundaries. I got a job at a strip club simply because it paid better than any other opportunities available to me at the time.... the fact I had to get naked in front of strangers didn't even seem like a big deal to me. Of course my mom found out and kicked me out of the house. Desperate, I met a patron at the strip club and started living with him. at 19 I was working at a strip club and basically living with a stranger who was over a decade older than me, but things really got ugly when I was introduced to the drugs. Heroin, cocaine, it didn't matter. Before I knew it I was caught with multiple possession charges. I was thrown in jail where I got regularly molested by the older inmates. And that is why 14 year olds shouldn't read ender's game.
Seriously, don't angry mothers have better things to do with their time? I know they have to bitch and complain about something, but surely they can find something to go after more menacing than a children's book.
Not sure if serious or...
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The only thing I would worry about is getting the kids interested in reading the rest of the series. Speaker for the Dead for the dead especially is quite disturbing and not something every kid should read, although 14 years old is getting close enough to what I consider mature enough for that book.
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On March 16 2012 08:16 Frogsox wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 08:14 Tewks44 wrote: Obviously this mother had every right to be upset. I read ender's game when I was 14 at the request of my teacher and it slowly ruined my life. The blatant exposure to pornographic materials completely ripped down my sexual boundaries. I got a job at a strip club simply because it paid better than any other opportunities available to me at the time.... the fact I had to get naked in front of strangers didn't even seem like a big deal to me. Of course my mom found out and kicked me out of the house. Desperate, I met a patron at the strip club and started living with him. at 19 I was working at a strip club and basically living with a stranger who was over a decade older than me, but things really got ugly when I was introduced to the drugs. Heroin, cocaine, it didn't matter. Before I knew it I was caught with multiple possession charges. I was thrown in jail where I got regularly molested by the older inmates. And that is why 14 year olds shouldn't read ender's game.
Seriously, don't angry mothers have better things to do with their time? I know they have to bitch and complain about something, but surely they can find something to go after more menacing than a children's book. Not sure if serious or...
Read the entire post first
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On March 16 2012 08:16 Frogsox wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 08:14 Tewks44 wrote: Obviously this mother had every right to be upset. I read ender's game when I was 14 at the request of my teacher and it slowly ruined my life. The blatant exposure to pornographic materials completely ripped down my sexual boundaries. I got a job at a strip club simply because it paid better than any other opportunities available to me at the time.... the fact I had to get naked in front of strangers didn't even seem like a big deal to me. Of course my mom found out and kicked me out of the house. Desperate, I met a patron at the strip club and started living with him. at 19 I was working at a strip club and basically living with a stranger who was over a decade older than me, but things really got ugly when I was introduced to the drugs. Heroin, cocaine, it didn't matter. Before I knew it I was caught with multiple possession charges. I was thrown in jail where I got regularly molested by the older inmates. And that is why 14 year olds shouldn't read ender's game.
Seriously, don't angry mothers have better things to do with their time? I know they have to bitch and complain about something, but surely they can find something to go after more menacing than a children's book. Not sure if serious or...
the second, far briefer part of my post is serious. The first part is just to show how completely absurd the idea that reading ender's game will have any serious negative effects on a child's psychological health.
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South Carolina is pretty great
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Mother was angry that his son had to wait 14 years before reading such an amazing book, right? right??
What is next, firing somebody for dropping a Fight Club reference in highscool? The things you own...
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On March 16 2012 08:15 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 08:07 TheWestWind wrote:Well, I read Ender's Game for the first time at the fairly advanced age of 27. My GF at the time had a bunch of the books in the series, and as it was one of her all time favourites and I am fairly literate, I gave it a try. I didn't really enjoy it, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what was so off putting to me personally about the book. Until, that is, I read this analysis. http://plover.net/~bonds/ender.html"Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, which purports to be a classic sci-fi novel, but is actually, I now realise, a work of pornography. Some readers might be deceived by the book's scrupulous avoidance of sexual content, but it just happens that sex is not the particular fetish of Ender's Game: it finds its gratification elsewhere." Please read this dudes take on Ender's Game if you are at all curious as to why the 'porn' tag is being attached to scott cards work. It is this kind of crap that reminds me why it is so hard to take English/literature schlolars seriously.
Agreed. Tedious read.
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On March 16 2012 07:23 Aberu wrote: The objection which many people are plainly missing was that the teacher did not use the proper procedures to get the book authorized. If that teacher had done their job right this wouldn't have been a fiasco. If the school had notified police like it is procedurally required to, then none of this would have happened. It's not so much about the books contents as it is the school and teacher just doing whatever they'd like.
If you read the story, the school officials came out and stated that Ender's Game would not have passed their inspection.
This is a joke. Ender's game is completely age-appropriate for a middle schooler.
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another case of conservatives pushing their agenda on children and degrading the education system
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I had to read Ender's Game in school as part of my curriculum. I ended up readin' it about ten times cause I loved it so much...how can they find any reason to ban Ender's Game when there are so many worse books out there they attempt to make you read. The whole series is amazin' though, the first book is by far the most graphic, but even then its not that bad.
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what on mother earth now???? that s the stupidest thing i've heard in a while
btw i ve read the Iliad at 12 and Name of the Rose at 13, so i have no idea how can ppl freak bout that book for 14 year olds
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Ender's Game instantly the most read book at that school, watch.
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Ridiculous. People are sometimes naked. I can´t get my mind around the fact that apparently not everyone acknowledges this fact. Nakedness doesn´t equal pornography.
This kind of thinking would categorize so much as pornographic it isn´t even funny. Michelangelo? Porn artist. Schindler´s list? Torture porn.
Does that 14yo even know how the other sex looks like naked? I would not be that surprised if he didn´t see a naked person besides himself his entire life. How can you shelter kids that much?
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Sorry my friends, but if you read this book in your early or mid adolescence, your critical capacity to understand the kind of violence porn that it really is was not fully functional, especially if you are identifying strongly with Ender. Which is the way the character was designed after all.
Did you know Ender's Game is required reading for US Marine Corps and Officers, as an exercise in how to justify violence?
Additionally, OSC has many personal views that many on this forum would find disgusting, including advocating the use of violence against consenting homosexual adults and denying evolution and climate change.
Not to be surprised though, nerds love their Ender's Game.
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On March 16 2012 07:18 oBlade wrote: Fahrenheit 451 should be required reading for everyone involved in this "story." Fahrenheit 451 is banned in public schools for creating an "excessive sense of individuality".
This seriously is batshit crazy. Human stupidity knows no bounds.
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Ender's Game has been one of my favourite books since I was ten or eleven. I think I've read it over twenty times at this point. There is just no fucking WAY it could be 'pornography'... that shit should be required reading for everyone over the age of nine.
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I don't believe that this teacher should have gotten into trouble. Part of our district's middle school curriculum includes this book, and I don't think anyone has complained about it yet.
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Ender's Game was required reading in my 7th grade English class. How in the fuck..? This happened in the US? How? Let me guess, it happened somewhere in the south....
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What kind of wussy-ass 14 year old whines about this? Worse yet, what helicopter parent wants to deprive (yes, deprive) their kid of an excellent book like this?
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It wasn't required reading for us, but it was in my middle school library when I read it during reading period (the hour before actual class, that everyone had to read), I actually read Ender's Shadow first, then read Ender's game, and some of the others in the series. I definitely think the reading level was definitely higher than what 14 year olds could on average, comprehend. But in all seriousness, Ender's series was by far my favorite series of books (Even better than Harry Potter). It's dissapointing when people are okay with letting their children follow a violent religion, that has its text invovled with rape/death/violence/slavery, but its somehow not okay for teachers to read a sci-fi novel to kids to try and spark their interest in reading?
sometimes I'm just embarassed to say I'm an american.
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What!? Our teacher made us read Ender's Game and I loved it. At the time I rarely ever read books, and I think this book sparked me to read a little bit more.
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On March 16 2012 08:49 wei2coolman wrote: It wasn't required reading for us, but it was in my middle school library when I read it during reading period (the hour before actual class, that everyone had to read), I actually read Ender's Shadow first, then read Ender's game, and some of the others in the series. I definitely think the reading level was definitely higher than what 14 year olds could on average, comprehend. But in all seriousness, Ender's series was by far my favorite series of books (Even better than Harry Potter). It's dissapointing when people are okay with letting their children follow a violent religion, that has its text invovled with rape/death/violence/slavery, but its somehow not okay for teachers to read a sci-fi novel to kids to try and spark their interest in reading?
sometimes I'm just embarassed to say I'm an american.
I always find that to be quite interesting. When people fall back on religion and the bible to justify why something is immoral or wrong it's usually hard to accept considering the fact that there are a lot of things in the bible which are worse (my religion teacher in High School admitted that the bible has some passages that are far worse than most movies/books etc) and in some cases illegal on an international level. When you pit one book against the other I don't think it really stacks up.
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On March 16 2012 08:41 TheWestWind wrote: Sorry my friends, but if you read this book in your early or mid adolescence, your critical capacity to understand the kind of violence porn that it really is was not fully functional, especially if you are identifying strongly with Ender. Which is the way the character was designed after all.
Did you know Ender's Game is required reading for US Marine Corps and Officers, as an exercise in how to justify violence?
Additionally, OSC has many personal views that many on this forum would find disgusting, including advocating the use of violence against consenting homosexual adults and denying evolution and climate change.
Not to be surprised though, nerds love their Ender's Game. That's exactly why it's a good book to be read in school, as the teacher can discuss the element of violence with his class. I read "Fabian" by Erich Kästner in school. The protagonist sure shouldnt be a role model for anyone, yet he is something worthy to discuss for students.
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This seems really strange. When we we're in 7th grade we also had to read it. And that is in Norway.
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They just keep building the wall... why does it have to be so high?
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I love that book! I read it at that age or younger as assigned school reading. No reason the teacher should be put on leave.
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We wonder what is wrong with America, if literature is banned what chance do thse kids have.
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i read that book last year in 8th grade, for fun "exterminating aliens" isn't even like the main part of it imo, just mainly about child soldiers/commanders and the crazy shit they do to get ahead on and off the battlefield
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i read ender when i was very young. exactly what is offensive about it? christ parents need to worry more about the shit on tv and music...not a damn book that isnt close to be controversial.
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On March 16 2012 08:49 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: What kind of wussy-ass 14 year old whines about this? Worse yet, what helicopter parent wants to deprive (yes, deprive) their kid of an excellent book like this?
lol my thoughts exactly... Man just dumb -_-.
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On March 16 2012 08:57 qqK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 08:41 TheWestWind wrote: Sorry my friends, but if you read this book in your early or mid adolescence, your critical capacity to understand the kind of violence porn that it really is was not fully functional, especially if you are identifying strongly with Ender. Which is the way the character was designed after all.
Did you know Ender's Game is required reading for US Marine Corps and Officers, as an exercise in how to justify violence?
Additionally, OSC has many personal views that many on this forum would find disgusting, including advocating the use of violence against consenting homosexual adults and denying evolution and climate change.
Not to be surprised though, nerds love their Ender's Game. That's exactly why it's a good book to be read in school, as the teacher can discuss the element of violence with his class. I read "Fabian" by Erich Kästner in school. The protagonist sure shouldnt be a role model for anyone, yet he is something worthy to discuss for students.
Oh. I suppose I just realized I hadn't weighed in on that part of the story. The idea of banning books is just prima facie ludicrous. The teacher should be able to read and discuss any book they want. I don't know if Ender's Game is good or bad from the perspective of generating discussion, but I think the reaction was unethical from the part of the school administration.
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nothing in that book will be worse than the bullying that kid will receive for being so soft and getting a teacher to go on leave
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i hate parents that baby sit their TEENAGE kids...sigh.
educate, not neglect knowledge.
shit like "philosophy? they're only children!" pisses the fack out of me.
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Ender's Game blew my mind, twice, when I read it last month.
In 12th grade we had to read bullshit Quebecquer historical novels like Bonheur d'occasion (The boring story of a poor family that never catches a break) and ''Une journée dans la vie d'Emmanuel.''
That book is about the fucked up story of a family who's children have sex with each other to keep warm during the cold Canadian winters.
What the fuck!? I thought so! And I had to write an essay on it too.
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Every year I find new reasons to have less and less faith in humanity...
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I bet the kid is "that kid" in class who has never kissed a girl (or a boy, not that it really matters).
the comments on the story are hilarious, btw.
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how is ender's game offensive... i applaud this teacher for his initiative in trying to educate the youth instead of just giving them standard middle school books, you could have some serious philosophical debate come from reading it!
On March 16 2012 08:41 TheWestWind wrote: Sorry my friends, but if you read this book in your early or mid adolescence, your critical capacity to understand the kind of violence porn that it really is was not fully functional, especially if you are identifying strongly with Ender. Which is the way the character was designed after all.
Did you know Ender's Game is required reading for US Marine Corps and Officers, as an exercise in how to justify violence?
Additionally, OSC has many personal views that many on this forum would find disgusting, including advocating the use of violence against consenting homosexual adults and denying evolution and climate change.
Not to be surprised though, nerds love their Ender's Game.
starship troopers is also required reading (at least for US military academies, idk about the marines), and it has a staunch anti-war message.. Idk how you see ender's game trying to justify violence, it vilifies the military bureaucracy for what they do to Ender. If anything it's also an anti-war novel imo (although it's really far-fetched in nearly every single aspect, so it's not a stable anti-war novel or stable pro-violence novel..)
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On March 16 2012 07:19 Monsen wrote: Congratulations america.
User was warned for this post
Well spoken Chancellor.
On topic: enders game is one of the most kid friendly and exciting sci-fi novels out there. It's so incredibly tame: imagine if that teacher had read them a "classic" (more pornography than anything) like Huckleberry Fin or The Great Gatsby. They'd ship that teacher of to Gitmo for poisoning the youth.
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I've read Ender's Game for many classes and just for fun and i even just read it about a week ago and even though i'm biased because i love the book so much, I think some 14 year old kids parents might object to it. In my opinion the book should be for about 14 years of age and older so really it shouldn't be that big of a deal...
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Ender's Game was my favorite book in Junior High School. I read both series, the one about Ender and the one about...er, Bean? The books really developed my imagination. I love this part of the article:
According to commonsensemedia.org, which claims it is has in-house staff and a team of reviewers who are experts in children's media, technology, health and policy matters, "this book was not originally intended for children. The violence is, at times, quite brutal, as kids kill other kids, though unintentionally, and the main character is admired for his ruthlessly efficient violence, though he himself is disturbed by it." The website also advises parents to be aware of violence, sex and language, but states that the content is appropriate for children 12 years or older. The student who gave a statement to the school is 14.
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my guess? the whole mess is over the 'buggers'. Kid probably comes from some incredibly homophobic phelps worshipping houshold where bugger is in the same order as motherfucker on the pornolinguistic scale. The article mentions that the books have swearwords in them, this is the only 'swearword' in ender's game. It's also the only thing I can think of that has any sexual connotations at all, let along pornographic.
Did you know Ender's Game is required reading for US Marine Corps and Officers, as an exercise in how to justify violence?
Additionally, OSC has many personal views that many on this forum would find disgusting, including advocating the use of violence against consenting homosexual adults and denying evolution and climate change.
EG is required reading because it at once demonstrates how far military training and indoctrination can go, and the consequences of that (the ending of ender's game is that he goes further than anyone wanted or anticipated. If you train a perfect weapon it will do a lot more than you bargained for) I'm pretty sure that's why the book is required reading, not to find ways of justifying violence, the army never needs that, but to caution officers about trying to go too far in the course of duty. The whole point of ender's game was that all the justifications of the military were ultimately false. Inevitable and necessary by their perspective, but wrong. The three sequels are entirely wrapped up in the consequences of that faulty justification and narrow perspective, even to the point where the conclusion to the quartet treats a character embodying that justification as childish and the main cast pretty much take his toys away from him and send him to the corner. I don't think you can get any clearer than that in the 'thou shalt not commit genocide lightly' department.
OSC's more extreme personal views were a) formed sometime after he wrote the 3 enders books and b) are of no consequence because while his books do contain a lot of religious rhetoric, they also contain a lot of counter-religious rhetoric and the ultimate hero of the books is driven by a purely secular, non-judgemental code of ethics. Much of the discussion in the books is how valid such a set of morals is and ultimately it is resolved to be good. I don't think he ever goes so far as to say that Ender's code is 'better' than the catholic sparring partners he faces, but he definitely points out areas where religion fails and secular morality is more valid. He has demonstrated he is capable of understanding his personal views as *personal* and exploring beyond them, as most good scifi writers do.
I'm not trying to defend his views, just that unlike some authors who use there work purely as propaganda, OSC's enderverse stuff is exploratory science fiction which gives its subject matter fair hearing. It is thus entirely suitable for people who don't share his views, and for kids (well, teens for the later books). Might I ask if you have read the books? or are you just avoiding them on the same basis that people avoid harry potter because JK Rowling doesn't acknowledge christ as her personal saviour and obviously is trying to sell witchcraft as good practice.
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On March 16 2012 09:27 Thereisnosaurus wrote: my guess? the whole mess is over the 'buggers'. Kid probably comes from some incredibly homophobic houshold where bugger is in the same order as motherfucker on the pornolinguistic scale. The article mentions that the books have swearwords in them, this is the only 'swearword' in ender's game. It's also the only thing I can think of that has any sexual connotations at all, let along pornographic.
No one uses the word "bugger" in America. It's associated more with bugs than sex here.
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edit: didn't fully read OP, forget my opinion.
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what's so bad about Enders game? The main theme is that kids can be just as smart as adults and even smarter especially in todays society when we have parents complaining to a school that a teacher just read their child an awesome book. I don't understand where they are coming from on this.
On March 16 2012 09:26 NationInArms wrote:Ender's Game was my favorite book in Junior High School. I read both series, the one about Ender and the one about...er, Bean? The books really developed my imagination. I love this part of the article: Show nested quote +According to commonsensemedia.org, which claims it is has in-house staff and a team of reviewers who are experts in children's media, technology, health and policy matters, "this book was not originally intended for children. The violence is, at times, quite brutal, as kids kill other kids, though unintentionally, and the main character is admired for his ruthlessly efficient violence, though he himself is disturbed by it." The website also advises parents to be aware of violence, sex and language, but states that the content is appropriate for children 12 years or older. The student who gave a statement to the school is 14.
I guess this would make sense, was the teacher at a religious school? but it says the teacher was kicked out because it was pornographic, not violent. hrm, I think the principle really overreacted here.
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On March 16 2012 09:11 SiN] wrote: nothing in that book will be worse than the bullying that kid will receive for being so soft and getting a teacher to go on leave IMO, its most likely the child said "My teacher read from This awesome book Ender's game and XYZ happened" and then the mom, loses her shit and events ensue.
I must have read ender's game 5-7 times by the time I finished High school (starting in 4th grade) I even read most of the story to my brother before bed when I was in 5th grade or so (he loved it). With that said, I'm racking my brain, and can't think of what passage in the novel the teacher could have read that would be perceived as "pornographic".... I mean for sure the book is violent, but no more so than Call of Duty or any recent PG-13 action movie. So at the risk of being profane, I'd venture to say that mother is full of shit.
I think this incident points to a larger issue going on in our nation's Schools. In particular at the K-8 level. Parents are turning against our nation's teachers. Parents are no longer treating the teacher with any semblance of respect.
I think many of peers will remember the days when the "call home from the teacher" was dreaded; after your mom said "HE DID WHAT?" she proceeded to hang up and bring the fury of hell down upon you. Or the mornings where you said your teacher was awful and you don't want to go to school; and your mother responded "get your ass out of bed you're going to school."
Now teachers are losing their jobs over their students complaining to their parents who then go over the teacher's head to contact the administration, the board of education, or in this case the police. Teachers are now afraid to criticize a student during a parent conference at the risk of the parent going to the principal blaming the deficiency on the teacher(some parents are ABSOLUTELY convinced their child is perfect despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, it is simply amazing)
This poor guy, trying to get a bunch of apathetic 12 year olds interested in something that he was so passionate about in his youth, is most likely going to lose his job (unless he has tenure, then he's most likely fine) because this mother couldn't stand the thought that something occurred in her child's classroom without her explicit consent.
Maybe that's why middle school principles are all morons (i'm sure not all of you are), because any intelligent person would kill himself if he had to deal with these types of parents on a daily basis.
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On March 16 2012 09:18 Krowser wrote: Ender's Game blew my mind, twice, when I read it last month.
In 12th grade we had to read bullshit Quebecquer historical novels like Bonheur d'occasion (The boring story of a poor family that never catches a break) and ''Une journée dans la vie d'Emmanuel.''
That book is about the fucked up story of a family who's children have sex with each other to keep warm during the cold Canadian winters.
What the fuck!? I thought so! And I had to write an essay on it too.
The second book sounds pretty out there. Would have loved to read some student essays to see how they dealt with the content.
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If the book was approved for ages 12+ and the kid who reported him was 14 then nothing should come out of this; the "leave" the teacher is placed on is probably just an attempt by the school to make it look like they are "doing something", more than anything else.
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Makes sense. America schools aren't exactly a place of learning anyhow so banning a book which could potentially teach students doesn't seem that unusual. I mean, America has a massive banned book list of which most of the books are banned for political or frivolous reasons. I don't think one teacher reading a book outside the norm is any worse than the million other things wrong at schools, at least this one doesn't cause kids to drop out.
If he broke school policy, then the school is right for doing it. But otherwise, it seems stupid. I read For Whom The Bell Tolls in High school and that book has 2 rather graphic sex scenes in it. It hasn't scarred me at all because I understood the context, plus I wasn't looking at it as a pornographic material.
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Damn. Ender's game was my favorite book growing up. Orson Scott Card's a talented author, he has a knack for making one actually give a damn about the moral quandaries and challenges his characters face.
For those who doesn't know, the book's setting involves humanity's first contact with alien life (the Bugs) and the resultant interstellar conflict. There's sci-fi elements, but the real meat of the book is about a group of gifted kids who are sought out (and in some cases partially engineered) by the worlds' governments, shipped into outer space and enrolled in the ultimate military school, all with the goal of producing genius commanders who could make miracles with Earth's limited space fleet. A large part of the kids' training involves warfare simulation games, and one game in particular called the Battle Room (iirc) which grants enormous prestige. The kids are organized into teams, assigned roles within those teams, spend all their time drilling and strategizing... is this reminding anyone of the starcraft pro scene??!
Whatever one may say about the book's premise, the execution is splendid. The book conveys the core themes of young adult lit: raw, coming-of-age angst, rebellion against authority, conflict and not fitting in with one's peers... yet it is all ultimately tempered by notions of duty, camaraderie, and compassion. A real work of art. I cannot imagine the douchebag that didn't devour this book whole and thank his stars he didn't have to read another antiquated, utterly conventional, coming-of-age family and society American lit piece.
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On March 16 2012 09:18 Krowser wrote: Ender's Game blew my mind, twice, when I read it last month.
In 12th grade we had to read bullshit Quebecquer historical novels like Bonheur d'occasion (The boring story of a poor family that never catches a break) and ''Une journée dans la vie d'Emmanuel.''
That book is about the fucked up story of a family who's children have sex with each other to keep warm during the cold Canadian winters.
What the fuck!? I thought so! And I had to write an essay on it too.
Hey man, you've lived your whole life with electric heating and insulated walls. Don't bash sex-with-family-for-warmth until you've had to survive eight months of winter in a log cabin.
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On March 16 2012 08:42 Maxd11 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:18 oBlade wrote: Fahrenheit 451 should be required reading for everyone involved in this "story." Fahrenheit 451 is banned in public schools for creating an "excessive sense of individuality". This seriously is batshit crazy. Human stupidity knows no bounds. Its sad because it probably is true.
Google "banned book list". The books on that list will be absolutely insane. Except for when I saw Twilight on there. That made me smile.
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Reading deeper it seems like the story is wrong and Enders Game was not the material question that was offensive.
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On March 16 2012 09:37 stokes17 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 09:11 SiN] wrote: nothing in that book will be worse than the bullying that kid will receive for being so soft and getting a teacher to go on leave IMO, its most likely the child said "My teacher read from This awesome book Ender's game and XYZ happened" and then the mom, loses her shit and events ensue. I must have read ender's game 5-7 times by the time I finished High school (starting in 4th grade) I even read most of the story to my brother before bed when I was in 5th grade or so (he loved it). With that said, I'm racking my brain, and can't think of what passage in the novel the teacher could have read that would be perceived as "pornographic".... I mean for sure the book is violent, but no more so than Call of Duty or any recent PG-13 action movie. So at the risk of being profane, I'd venture to say that mother is full of shit. I think this incident points to a larger issue going on in our nation's Schools. In particular at the K-8 level. Parents are turning against our nation's teachers. Parents are no longer treating the teacher with any semblance of respect. I think many of peers will remember the days when the "call home from the teacher" was dreaded; after your mom said "HE DID WHAT?" she proceeded to hang up and bring the fury of hell down upon you. Or the mornings where you said your teacher was awful and you don't want to go to school; and your mother responded "get your ass out of bed you're going to school." Now teachers are losing their jobs over their students complaining to their parents who then go over the teacher's head to contact the administration, the board of education, or in this case the police. Teachers are now afraid to criticize a student during a parent conference at the risk of the parent going to the principal blaming the deficiency on the teacher(some parents are ABSOLUTELY convinced their child is perfect despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, it is simply amazing) This poor guy, trying to get a bunch of apathetic 12 year olds interested in something that he was so passionate about in his youth, is most likely going to lose his job (unless he has tenure, then he's most likely fine) because this mother couldn't stand the thought that something occurred in her child's classroom without her explicit consent. Maybe that's why middle school principles are all morons (i'm sure not all of you are), because any intelligent person would kill himself if he had to deal with these types of parents on a daily basis.
i used to coach high school sports and I would get hell from parents for not starting their child because 'he starts in club level' or 'you don't appreciate how good he is' etc even when they're clearly not first choice by any stretch of the imagination. Sometimes there would be lettees sent to the sports master and even though he would agree with me he'd tell me to starr the kid because the drama isn't worth it. Needless to say I stopped coaching at the level.
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Public school parents these days...They make me shake my head in shame.
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wow, this is so ridiculous. Ender's Game is a great book and could easily get someone more interested in reading
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i agree its not for 14 year olds for some kids its ok but every kid reacts differently
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On March 16 2012 08:42 Maxd11 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:18 oBlade wrote: Fahrenheit 451 should be required reading for everyone involved in this "story." Fahrenheit 451 is banned in public schools for creating an "excessive sense of individuality". This seriously is batshit crazy. Human stupidity knows no bounds.
That book is banned in some places in the US? Lol it was required reading for me and the teacher had trouble getting students to read it cause they thought it was boring.
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I can't see "Ender's Game" causing an uproar, something else must have happened that isn't being reported on (or was reported incorrectly). If that isn't the case then geez... I read a lot of "violent" books when I was very young, e.g. the Bible.
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On March 16 2012 07:29 Funguuuuu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:27 Requizen wrote:On March 16 2012 07:23 Aberu wrote: The objection which many people are plainly missing was that the teacher did not use the proper procedures to get the book authorized. If that teacher had done their job right this wouldn't have been a fiasco. If the school had notified police like it is procedurally required to, then none of this would have happened. It's not so much about the books contents as it is the school and teacher just doing whatever they'd like. I'd agree with you if it was actually a controversial book. But Ender's Game has been used in schools across the countries for probably over a decade, read by children of all ages, and is considered a Sci-Fi classic. It's a thinking book, but there's really nothing all that offensive in it. It'd be like raising hell over The Giver. The Giver is actually a pretty widely banned book. People mis-interpret it and think it supports the use of Euthanasia to make a utopian society, but anyone who read the book would know the opposite is true.
How ironic.
Or just sad.
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United States7483 Posts
Being upset over the students reading a book is ridiculous, regardless of the content. What, you're going to keep teenagers from experiencing culture? Hell, Adult Swim on cartoon network advertises that they think their content is appropriate for people 14 years old, not younger (and they're on the safe side).
Orson Scott Card is a raging asshole though, I know I would never buy any of his books or support him in any way, but that's a different matter.
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OSC stated himself that his book was mainly ANTI war, he wrote it when his brother was in korea and he himself dreaded the combat training he would have to do, hence why it takes place at a battle school
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On March 16 2012 07:26 FFGenerations wrote: and god forbid a teacher working his brains out day in day out to help educate our kids not bother to get a reading book authorised
Parents are so uneducated....
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This country is so full of stupid, over-protective parents nowadays
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On March 16 2012 09:49 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 08:42 Maxd11 wrote:On March 16 2012 07:18 oBlade wrote: Fahrenheit 451 should be required reading for everyone involved in this "story." Fahrenheit 451 is banned in public schools for creating an "excessive sense of individuality". This seriously is batshit crazy. Human stupidity knows no bounds. That book is banned in some places in the US? Lol it was required reading for me and the teacher had trouble getting students to read it cause they thought it was boring.
it's actually pretty ironic that Fahrenheit 451 is banned since the whole book is about censorship and the destruction of intellectual materials..
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WTF since when does all sorts of chaos happen when 1 kid makes a complaint? Kids don't like all sorts of things, but they have to deal with it. The book is approved material and commonly used so there is no problem except with the kid and/or parents. If they don't like it they should be moving to a different school or something, no?
This seems so ridiculous in more ways than just the subject matter involved or whatever some people might consider the issue to be.
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On March 16 2012 07:17 cmen15 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:14 RonNation wrote: when i was in 7th grade Ender's Game was required reading for my class.... Yea me to, and i know my brother read this also when he was in middle school... What a joke lol, have these people watched tv in the last few years??? Read it because it was required in 7th grade for me too. Led me to read the other books of the series as well so I'd say it helped encourage me to read more.
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On March 16 2012 09:59 Skullflower wrote: This country is so full of stupid, over-protective parents nowadays
Don't worry, it's not just the US. I know plenty of people who overreact, freak out if their child falls down from the couch, blame everyone if their precious breaks his skin playing football, etc.
The US looks worse because the school system is more democratic (i.e parents have more direct influence) than in most other developed countries.
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I was reading the comments for the story linked and it seems that the story linked is WRONG and that Enders Game is NOT the cause of the complaint but some material about a guy cumming on a prostitutes face. So while I agree with everyone on what they are saying the information itself might be wrong. I cannot link it right now since I am on my phone but one of the comments in the article linked has a link to another story that doesn't even mention Enders Game.
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On March 16 2012 10:00 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 09:49 Slaughter wrote:On March 16 2012 08:42 Maxd11 wrote:On March 16 2012 07:18 oBlade wrote: Fahrenheit 451 should be required reading for everyone involved in this "story." Fahrenheit 451 is banned in public schools for creating an "excessive sense of individuality". This seriously is batshit crazy. Human stupidity knows no bounds. That book is banned in some places in the US? Lol it was required reading for me and the teacher had trouble getting students to read it cause they thought it was boring. it's actually pretty ironic that Fahrenheit 451 is banned since the whole book is about censorship and the destruction of intellectual materials.. 1. that is a correct use of irony. They are demonstrating the very principle they are trying to prevent you from seeing .
2. I think Fahrenheit 451 is boring too! lol
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What a joke.
In high school I had tons of crazy books as assigned reading. I read Brave New World, Farenheit 451, A ClockWork Orange to name a few.
Puritan americans strike again.
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Wtf just because one parent complains about it the teacher is put on leave? There's only one "graphic" scene and that's when Ender has to fight this bully kid in while nude. I read that when I was 13 or 14 and it still remains my favorite series of all time. I read all of the sequels in the same year.
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EDIT:It's getting to the point , where it feels like you have to protest everything or it will just get out of controll. And I mean that by protesting the school or parents who made that descion. Hmm. Anyway teamliquid can help?
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this is strange because ive heard of multiple american teachers who have taught from this book o_o
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Ender's game was one of the best books I've ever read, which was freshman year of my high school. It was read in my English class. The entire class loved it. The book was phenominal. I suggested it to my brother his freshman year, and it was the ONLY book he's EVER read (he loathes reading, kinda sad, he won't get into almost anyone) nearly nonstop that was above a second/third grade reading level.
What exactly in that book is so terrible? Ender's brother's apathy towards harming others or..?
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Ender's shadow was my favorite book of all time.
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On March 16 2012 07:10 Requizen wrote:Source: http://www.aikenstandard.com/story/0315Followup-with-school--3862406tl:dr - Teacher reads Ender's Game to her class as part of an attempt to get kids more interested in reading. 14 year old kid tells his mom, she complains to the school, teacher is put on "leave". I read Ender's Game (and indeed most of the series) around that age or younger, and it didn't scar me in any lasting way, in fact, it made me more interested in reading in general. However, I suppose I'm not indicative of every child that age. I also read Animorphs (which was actually really violent, reflecting back on it), and I don't know if those would pass the test either. Do you think Orson Scott Card's books are too "pornographic" or offensive? How about other books that are written for that age range?
I haven't read it, but the fact you even have to ask if something is too pornographic or offensive obviously means it's not appropriate. You answered your own question.
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IIRC, catcher in the rye and american psycho are part of the curriculum in america, which are much much more intense than ender's game. So no, there is nothing wrong with the book, and the parent is stupid.
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Wow I mean some people. My brain breaks down and malfunctions when I read things like this. I'm glad I refuse to make friends with people that stupid.
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That book was part of my school's English curriculum when I was 14.
What a complete overreaction.
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I dislike that shitty book as much as the next guy but suspending someone for reading it is a little harsh. Maybe.
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Lalalaland34456 Posts
We read Streetcar named Desire when I was about 14-15. Wasn't there domestic violence in that?
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Ender's Game was a fucking terrible novel I'd be pissed too
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On March 16 2012 10:13 Boxxer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 07:10 Requizen wrote:Source: http://www.aikenstandard.com/story/0315Followup-with-school--3862406tl:dr - Teacher reads Ender's Game to her class as part of an attempt to get kids more interested in reading. 14 year old kid tells his mom, she complains to the school, teacher is put on "leave". I read Ender's Game (and indeed most of the series) around that age or younger, and it didn't scar me in any lasting way, in fact, it made me more interested in reading in general. However, I suppose I'm not indicative of every child that age. I also read Animorphs (which was actually really violent, reflecting back on it), and I don't know if those would pass the test either. Do you think Orson Scott Card's books are too "pornographic" or offensive? How about other books that are written for that age range? I haven't read it, but the fact you even have to ask if something is too pornographic or offensive obviously means it's not appropriate. You answered your own question.
If you haven't bothered to read it, don't formulate an opinion on the matter. You can't. Those questions are asked just to find some sort of rationale to give this teacher leave. If you read the book, you'd know how absurd this is.
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Never read this, but this thread is making me want to. How come I had to read shit like "Of Mice and Men" in High school? what a worthless piece of shit that was. Might go have a hunt for this, see what the fuss is about.
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On March 16 2012 10:24 Gingerninja wrote: Never read this, but this thread is making me want to. How come I had to read shit like "Of Mice and Men" in High school? what a worthless piece of shit that was. Might go have a hunt for this, see what the fuss is about.
Ender's game was absolutely amazing. Read it in 9th grade. The book we had to read after? Wuthering Heights. Most garbage noneventful book ever. Of Mice and Men wasn't terrible.... I mean, I wouldn't read it for enjoyment, but it wasn't painful to the extent Wuthering Heights was.
I maintain that book is the most boring book I've ever read, EVER.
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On March 16 2012 10:24 Gingerninja wrote: Never read this, but this thread is making me want to. How come I had to read shit like "Of Mice and Men" in High school? what a worthless piece of shit that was. Might go have a hunt for this, see what the fuss is about.
Books you read in school are never primarly meant to be "enjoyable", unless you're purposely taking an elective that specializes in said area. They're meant to stimulate you and to give insight into various areas.
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To be fair, Petra did give me many awkward boners as a kid. And I'm like 90% sure she introduced me to fapping. I can't remember where I was going with this but I'm pretty sure those scenes would've been awkward for some of them.
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On March 16 2012 10:16 Cubu wrote: IIRC, catcher in the rye and american psycho are part of the curriculum in america, which are much much more intense than ender's game. So no, there is nothing wrong with the book, and the parent is stupid.
If parents flip out over something like Ender's Game I don't know what they'd do if they found out their kid was reading American Psycho for school...
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enders game is one of the best books out there, this boggles my mind
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We had to read Ender's Game my sophomore year of high school. I enjoyed it a lot, and I find it very fuckin frustrating that a parent would complain about it. Out of all the books out there that could be read, Ender's game is not top on the list of books I would imagine to be censored.
Just parents enforcing censorship, in general, really gets on my nerves. Its literature, kids need to be exposed to it, and they need to be exposed to various types of it. Parents who shelter their kids are not doing a good job to prepare their kids for the future. I mean, my parents sheltered me a bit when I was younger, but by the time you're 14 you need to be left to explore and be exposed to more "adult" themes.
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This article is either unclear, or very manipulative. I find it interesting that, while it mentions Enders Game whenever possible, and that a book is considered pornographic, it never explicitly says that Enders Game is the questionable book there, but it is the only one of the three books named here. I somehow get the feeling that this article is just pure nerdbaiting, trying to enrage fans of the Ender series. Now, i don't know more about this then from the article, so i don't know if they are actually doing this, but it feels very much like the article tries to twist facts, so i am inclined to believe that the book the school and parents had a problem with was actually one of the other two that are not mentioned by name.
What i would guess actually happened (without having more information about this), is that the teacher read three books, one of those Enders Game, one a far more explicit and controversial book, the parents complained about that book, the teacher got problems.The reporter noticed that he would get far more views by implying that enders game was the problematic book, but did not want to outright lie, so he used confusing terminology. Thus we get a thread here and elsewhere, and he gets views and addmoney.
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On March 16 2012 10:34 Skullflower wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 10:16 Cubu wrote: IIRC, catcher in the rye and american psycho are part of the curriculum in america, which are much much more intense than ender's game. So no, there is nothing wrong with the book, and the parent is stupid. If parents flip out over something like Ender's Game I don't know what they'd do if they found out their kid was reading American Psycho for school...
Oh wait, they dont have american psycho (its a really good piece of literature so i thought they might let student read it). But still catcher in the rye is there and alot 'worse' than ender's game.
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This is the type of Bullsh*t that makes the education in america so damn bad. Teachers can't risk doing anything outside of the curriculum because some idiot gets offended by words on a page and complains. maddening really.
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This is so dumb. Ender's Game is the best book of all time. It's not even that violent. There are only two deaths really.
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Doesn't that stupid teacher know To Kill a Mockingbird is the only book kids are supposed to read?
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My wife teaches 14-year olds. Many of them are already drinking and having sex, some are involved in gangs, and several deal weed and ex.
If they were to read Ender's Game, it would mark a positive turning point in their lives. Crazy parents like this one ruin education.
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On March 16 2012 10:23 Mr Showtime wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 10:13 Boxxer wrote:On March 16 2012 07:10 Requizen wrote:Source: http://www.aikenstandard.com/story/0315Followup-with-school--3862406tl:dr - Teacher reads Ender's Game to her class as part of an attempt to get kids more interested in reading. 14 year old kid tells his mom, she complains to the school, teacher is put on "leave". I read Ender's Game (and indeed most of the series) around that age or younger, and it didn't scar me in any lasting way, in fact, it made me more interested in reading in general. However, I suppose I'm not indicative of every child that age. I also read Animorphs (which was actually really violent, reflecting back on it), and I don't know if those would pass the test either. Do you think Orson Scott Card's books are too "pornographic" or offensive? How about other books that are written for that age range? I haven't read it, but the fact you even have to ask if something is too pornographic or offensive obviously means it's not appropriate. You answered your own question. If you haven't bothered to read it, don't formulate an opinion on the matter. You can't. Those questions are asked just to find some sort of rationale to give this teacher leave. If you read the book, you'd know how absurd this is.
Doesn't matter dumbass, if I have to check with others if something is going to offend people, it's not a good idea to do it EVER, prove me wrong.
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On March 16 2012 10:52 CCitrus wrote: My wife teaches 14-year olds. Many of them are already drinking and having sex, some are involved in gangs, and several deal weed and ex.
So because the school is filled with idiot kids it makes it ok.
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On March 16 2012 10:57 Boxxer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 10:23 Mr Showtime wrote:On March 16 2012 10:13 Boxxer wrote:On March 16 2012 07:10 Requizen wrote:Source: http://www.aikenstandard.com/story/0315Followup-with-school--3862406tl:dr - Teacher reads Ender's Game to her class as part of an attempt to get kids more interested in reading. 14 year old kid tells his mom, she complains to the school, teacher is put on "leave". I read Ender's Game (and indeed most of the series) around that age or younger, and it didn't scar me in any lasting way, in fact, it made me more interested in reading in general. However, I suppose I'm not indicative of every child that age. I also read Animorphs (which was actually really violent, reflecting back on it), and I don't know if those would pass the test either. Do you think Orson Scott Card's books are too "pornographic" or offensive? How about other books that are written for that age range? I haven't read it, but the fact you even have to ask if something is too pornographic or offensive obviously means it's not appropriate. You answered your own question. If you haven't bothered to read it, don't formulate an opinion on the matter. You can't. Those questions are asked just to find some sort of rationale to give this teacher leave. If you read the book, you'd know how absurd this is. Doesn't matter dumbass, if I have to check with others if something is going to offend people, it's not a good idea to do it EVER, prove me wrong. I find rock music, loud noises and fantasy literature offensive. Point: sometimes people are offended by things that they should not be.
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On March 16 2012 10:57 Boxxer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 10:23 Mr Showtime wrote:On March 16 2012 10:13 Boxxer wrote:On March 16 2012 07:10 Requizen wrote:Source: http://www.aikenstandard.com/story/0315Followup-with-school--3862406tl:dr - Teacher reads Ender's Game to her class as part of an attempt to get kids more interested in reading. 14 year old kid tells his mom, she complains to the school, teacher is put on "leave". I read Ender's Game (and indeed most of the series) around that age or younger, and it didn't scar me in any lasting way, in fact, it made me more interested in reading in general. However, I suppose I'm not indicative of every child that age. I also read Animorphs (which was actually really violent, reflecting back on it), and I don't know if those would pass the test either. Do you think Orson Scott Card's books are too "pornographic" or offensive? How about other books that are written for that age range? I haven't read it, but the fact you even have to ask if something is too pornographic or offensive obviously means it's not appropriate. You answered your own question. If you haven't bothered to read it, don't formulate an opinion on the matter. You can't. Those questions are asked just to find some sort of rationale to give this teacher leave. If you read the book, you'd know how absurd this is. Doesn't matter dumbass, if I have to check with others if something is going to offend people, it's not a good idea to do it EVER, prove me wrong.
I find music by Elvis to be completely Satanic and a terrible influence on my children who all lead sheltered lives, and therefore no one should be allowed to listen to his songs at the school dance. They're just too profane. I also don't want evolution taught because it offends my religious beliefs.
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United States5162 Posts
On March 16 2012 10:57 Boxxer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 10:23 Mr Showtime wrote:On March 16 2012 10:13 Boxxer wrote:On March 16 2012 07:10 Requizen wrote:Source: http://www.aikenstandard.com/story/0315Followup-with-school--3862406tl:dr - Teacher reads Ender's Game to her class as part of an attempt to get kids more interested in reading. 14 year old kid tells his mom, she complains to the school, teacher is put on "leave". I read Ender's Game (and indeed most of the series) around that age or younger, and it didn't scar me in any lasting way, in fact, it made me more interested in reading in general. However, I suppose I'm not indicative of every child that age. I also read Animorphs (which was actually really violent, reflecting back on it), and I don't know if those would pass the test either. Do you think Orson Scott Card's books are too "pornographic" or offensive? How about other books that are written for that age range? I haven't read it, but the fact you even have to ask if something is too pornographic or offensive obviously means it's not appropriate. You answered your own question. If you haven't bothered to read it, don't formulate an opinion on the matter. You can't. Those questions are asked just to find some sort of rationale to give this teacher leave. If you read the book, you'd know how absurd this is. Doesn't matter dumbass, if I have to check with others if something is going to offend people, it's not a good idea to do it EVER, prove me wrong. Anything can offend someone. Living by your mantra would mean never doing anything ever. Ironically, you made a personal assault in the same post talking about never doing something that has potential to offend someone.
In the book's case, I've not read it either, but everyone here has said the only thing even close to offensive is the mention of nudity. And that can't be that offensive considering we have nude statures and other 'tasteful' art all over public places.
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On March 16 2012 11:02 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 10:57 Boxxer wrote:On March 16 2012 10:23 Mr Showtime wrote:On March 16 2012 10:13 Boxxer wrote:On March 16 2012 07:10 Requizen wrote:Source: http://www.aikenstandard.com/story/0315Followup-with-school--3862406tl:dr - Teacher reads Ender's Game to her class as part of an attempt to get kids more interested in reading. 14 year old kid tells his mom, she complains to the school, teacher is put on "leave". I read Ender's Game (and indeed most of the series) around that age or younger, and it didn't scar me in any lasting way, in fact, it made me more interested in reading in general. However, I suppose I'm not indicative of every child that age. I also read Animorphs (which was actually really violent, reflecting back on it), and I don't know if those would pass the test either. Do you think Orson Scott Card's books are too "pornographic" or offensive? How about other books that are written for that age range? I haven't read it, but the fact you even have to ask if something is too pornographic or offensive obviously means it's not appropriate. You answered your own question. If you haven't bothered to read it, don't formulate an opinion on the matter. You can't. Those questions are asked just to find some sort of rationale to give this teacher leave. If you read the book, you'd know how absurd this is. Doesn't matter dumbass, if I have to check with others if something is going to offend people, it's not a good idea to do it EVER, prove me wrong. Anything can offend someone. Living by your mantra would mean never doing anything ever. Ironically, you made a personal assault in the same post talking about never doing something that has potential to offend someone. In the book's case, I've not read it either, but everyone here has said the only thing even close to offensive is the mention of nudity. And that can't be that offensive considering we have nude statures and other 'tasteful' art all over public places.
The OP said porn, not nudity lol., plus teaching and living are two different things, if you take drugs and you like doing it, do you think it's fine to tell others taking drugs is ok? Of course its not.
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let me get this straight.... teacher reads one of the top 10 bucks in modern writing and then is put on leave for it? man i dont understand parents. The book makes you LOVE reading holy crap stop trying to defend your kid from everything and let them live a little.
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United States5162 Posts
On March 16 2012 11:06 Boxxer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 11:02 Myles wrote:On March 16 2012 10:57 Boxxer wrote:On March 16 2012 10:23 Mr Showtime wrote:On March 16 2012 10:13 Boxxer wrote:On March 16 2012 07:10 Requizen wrote:Source: http://www.aikenstandard.com/story/0315Followup-with-school--3862406tl:dr - Teacher reads Ender's Game to her class as part of an attempt to get kids more interested in reading. 14 year old kid tells his mom, she complains to the school, teacher is put on "leave". I read Ender's Game (and indeed most of the series) around that age or younger, and it didn't scar me in any lasting way, in fact, it made me more interested in reading in general. However, I suppose I'm not indicative of every child that age. I also read Animorphs (which was actually really violent, reflecting back on it), and I don't know if those would pass the test either. Do you think Orson Scott Card's books are too "pornographic" or offensive? How about other books that are written for that age range? I haven't read it, but the fact you even have to ask if something is too pornographic or offensive obviously means it's not appropriate. You answered your own question. If you haven't bothered to read it, don't formulate an opinion on the matter. You can't. Those questions are asked just to find some sort of rationale to give this teacher leave. If you read the book, you'd know how absurd this is. Doesn't matter dumbass, if I have to check with others if something is going to offend people, it's not a good idea to do it EVER, prove me wrong. Anything can offend someone. Living by your mantra would mean never doing anything ever. Ironically, you made a personal assault in the same post talking about never doing something that has potential to offend someone. In the book's case, I've not read it either, but everyone here has said the only thing even close to offensive is the mention of nudity. And that can't be that offensive considering we have nude statures and other 'tasteful' art all over public places. The OP said porn, not nudity lol., plus teaching and living are two different things, if you take drugs and you like doing it, do you think it's fine to tell others taking drugs is ok? Of course its not. Well, if posters here are to be believed, the parent(s) don't know what they're talking about. And I'm not sure what you mean exactly by 'ok', but I do tell people that smoking pot is fine aside from the legal risks associated with it.
edit: I'd also imagine that it being an award winning book for ages 12+ would say all that's needed.
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I read that book in 6th grade and later on had to in 7th grade and I didn't even consider that kind of stuff (petra's nudity, shower scene, didn't realize what was going on when described one guy's giant holographic penis)
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People in this world have to stop getting butthurt.
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I know someone (4th grade teacher) who got chewed out because they had Ender's Game on their desk and one of their students saw it and then was motivated to reach the book themselves (I think there's some swearing in the book).
And yes, large parts of the US are like this unfortunately. It's not everyone though
Ironically enough it comes from the areas of the country that support politicians who promise smaller government.
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This is insane, parents should not be allowed to monitor things like this, if they are against a book that is critically acclaimed and at a childrens reading level, its not fair to say its child-pornography in the slightest, i read rabbit run and that was much more pornographic as a junior in highschool, that book has legit sex scenes so idk what this book that has little in it like that should be considered porn.
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...and so they banned Catcher in the Rye.
geez I wish people had shown me Ender earlier -_- these parents + these rules = just nonsensical
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if some crazy parent did that in any school here in austria they would get laughed at im pretty sure
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Wait... what? I think when I was 14 Ender's game was required reading for one of the classes... must be a private school.
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wow. when I was 14 I read 1984, which has multiple references to sex(and things much more scary to a young person/parents). And I'm in the Deep South. Jesus Christ...
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There is this thing called Over parenting... there seems to be quite a bit of that in some parts of US. It's really a shame people get in trouble for something so stupid.
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I had to read that in 9th grade, and we read worse stuff than that when I was in 7th grade..
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10 bucks says the parents of this kid have no problem letting him play battlefield or watching violent movies. People are getting more and more retarded...Harry potter is witch craft remember guys? Its like the USA has a personal vendetta against books.
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The Wars by Timothy Findley is taught in high schools here. There are graphic depictions of sadomasochism (in a whorehouse), the violent gang-rape of the main character (committed by fellow soldiers), and general WW1 cruelty. The book is grim is what I'm saying.
But yeah, what a cute moral crusade that parent is on. Here in Canada we apparently just don't give a shit about what our kids read, so long as they do. I wonder what it would be like to care that much about something that matters so little.
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I don't understand America these days, or generally parents of western countries. Its seems ok that TV and Internet filled with violence and almost-pornographic stuff which are available 24/7 and yet they complain about Ender's Game book. What a load of crap. I guess its how parents show off they 'care' about their children. What about the story 'Red hat girl' where wolf eats everybody, its being told to infants for generations.
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On March 16 2012 12:23 BandonBanshee wrote: 10 bucks says the parents of this kid have no problem letting him play battlefield or watching violent movies. People are getting more and more retarded...Harry potter is witch craft remember guys? Its like the USA has a personal vendetta against books.
The USA or this mother and the administration who gave the teacher leave? 10 bucks says that you didn't put all that much thought into what you wrote.
Moreover, I agree with your main point.
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Reminds me of first year in high school when we were watching some educational film I can't remember, and there was a breast on screen for about half a second. Next day we are told someone's parents complained and we cannot watch the rest of the film.
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WHAT?!?!
Ender's Game is possibly one of the most educational and important books of our generation. A ton of entrepreneurs list Ender's Game as their number one book on where they learned the skills of leadership. And it is a classic for kids... how is this grounds for punishment?!?!
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I remember in 9th that Ender's Game was a choice book we could've read out of four other books. The english teach was chill about it. We also read To kill a mockingbird, which for obvious reasons are also frowned upon.
Now we're reading The Catcher in the Rye in junior year, and that book is also frowned upon as well, but I haven't yet found out why since we're only 6 chapters in.
Really silly to put a teacher on leave for that. I can see a soccer mom - who thinks her child's ass has stars shining out of it - doing that.
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Schools in the states get butthurt over the most unimportant shit, at least public schools do. Why else do you never/rarely see movies or read books in school with any amount of violence or serious themes in them? They treat you like fucking children. That said, I actually applaud that teacher for doing something that probably got a few kids curious about the book. Now they will get interested in reading, how the fuck is this a bad thing?
Oh, I just found out the article is from Aiken, S.C. That makes sense. People in S.C. are of the religious nutjob types. I wouldn't be suprised if it was a bunch of christian parents that complained.
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This kids parents are retards. Enders Game is an amazing book. I'd read it to my kids, and would love for schools to read more books like it. Also, the parents clearly haven't read the book, because although there is violent parts, it's all about taking responsibility for your actions and understanding the paths you've taken in life and what effect those choices had on others. If that's offensive then wow...
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This is super weird because Ender's Game was one of a group of 4-5 books that we had the option of reading for a book report thing way back in grade 8 I think.
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Ender's game was a fucking awesome read, you've got to be joking me that this teacher got in trouble for reading it to his/her class. I especially loved how Orson Scott Card clearly described what was going through Ender's mind through the whole book :D
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Helicopter parents have done more to damage America than terrorists ever have or ever will.
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The teacher should be given a pat on the back for introducing children to such an awesome book. Fucking stupid parents ruining this world 1 teacher at a time.
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Ender's Game was required summer reading for me as incoming freshman in high school...
I cannot even begin to understand what is wrong with the book being read to 14-year olds. In my opinion it's likely just a case of a kid who doesn't like his teacher exploiting the stupidity of his parents.
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Wow. That's fucking terrible. I did a fucking book report on Ender's Game.
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So much stupid. The book was amazing and since I've read it I've always wondered if they'd come out with a movie based on the book (though I feel many things could not be translated from book to movie correctly). Honestly even if a book is a problem to read in class (lets say the bible since its the only thing that I can think of that would be illegal to read to a class) it should not warrant a suspension. Discontinue the reading, pick up a different book and go. Don't punish teachers for stupid reasons. Punish teachers for bad results.
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Wow, 14 year old, and a Young Adult book is to inappropriate? Yet you read catcher in the rhye and go ask alice at that age... wow... I kinda want to slap the parent T_T and the school systeml. Such an amazing and inspiring book, I know it was one of the main reasons why I kept reading.
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I bet they let their kids watch crap-all on TV.
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Lol? is this a joke? that book was required reading when I was in grade 9. And I read it for the first time when I was younger then that....
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This is absolutely ridiculous. Kid needs to grow up and the parents need to stop sheltering their kid.
My teacher read us "They Cage the Animals At Night" in grade 4 (so about 10 years old), and that book has blatant child abuse in it and a lot of dark situations (The main character's best friend dies, other people he knows die, he gets abused severely). It also now is one of my favourite books and it had a great message.
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Odd thing is... a more controversial book is in schools right now being read at both the middle school and high school levels. Even elementary students have probably heard of it.
It's called: "Huckleberry Finn and his N word saying face." Full title I didn't change anything.
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Some parents like these have no idea how to let their kids explore and learn. Let the teachers do their jobs.
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that mom must want her son to be a monk or something
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The teen who wrote the statement to police regarding the offensive nature of the book is 14 YEARS OLD ROFL.
What do this kids parents still change his diapers daily? LOL. That is beyond pathetic.
I can only imagine that this teenagers parents must be border-line mentally insane or something.
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This has to be a joke. Yeah the kid is 14... What book can he read then. Nothing that I have read in middle school thats for sure. Catcher in the rye would throw this kid for a fucking loop.
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I first read Ender's game in 8th grade. Awesome book, I own a copy of it as well as the rest of the series, I've read them all multiple times. I can't imagine that anyone could find something morally wrong with the book, but... then again, there are crazy people out there. Must be some really innocent 14 year old boy, "what, naked people taking a shower isn't the same thing as porn???" lol.
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Some parents are over protective, i remember in grade 7 a parent pulled her daughter out of school for a day because they were teaching sex education.
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Read this book in 4th grade for class (assigned by our teacher!) and I feel like I turned out just fine
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Wow really? That's one of my favorite books, can't believe someone was complaining about having to read a good book in school... I would've loved reading anything other than stuff like The Crucible back in grade school, OMG.
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After reading all these comments I'm gonna go find Enders Game and read it myself. I'm 15 so I'm not too old yet I guess :D
Also this stuff needs to stop. Too much butthurtment all over the world. Just grow some common sense and decency for crying out loud..
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Gezz, its not like we already give the rest of world plenty of materiel for them to bag on the US for. That teacher needs a raise for trying to get kids interested in reading, so few people do now a day. Where can i find the common sense store to direct these people to , so they stop making us look stupid xp.
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Just a few days ago I read something similar about a teacher in Switzerland: http://www.unifr.ch/oeffrecht/SVVOR/assets/files/Dienstrecht/Das Magazin Nr. 9.pdf (.pdf, German!)
He read some "high literature" with some things in it, that could be pornographic. Because it was also before kids of ~14 he was suspected of being a pedophile and got a full search of his home! They found some "artistic nude" (nude meaning not totally nude, but "posing" in a "sexual context" ... whatever this means...) pictures and a court found him guilt of possession of child pornography. Lost his job and got on the "black list" so he can never ever teach again... Don't know if I should mention, that all children, he taught, all colleagues, friends and people that knew him were saying that any accusation of him being a pedophile are crap ...
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On March 16 2012 22:37 Geisterkarle wrote:Just a few days ago I read something similar about a teacher in Switzerland: http://www.unifr.ch/oeffrecht/SVVOR/assets/files/Dienstrecht/Das Magazin Nr. 9.pdf (.pdf, German!) He read some "high literature" with some things in it, that could be pornographic. Because it was also before kids of ~14 he was suspected of being a pedophile and got a full search of his home! They found some "artistic nude" (nude meaning not totally nude, but "posing" in a "sexual context" ... whatever this means...) pictures and a court found him guilt of possession of child pornography. Lost his job and got on the "black list" so he can never ever teach again... Don't know if I should mention, that all children, he taught, all colleagues, friends and people that knew him were saying that any accusation of him being a pedophile are crap ...
Were they pictures of "Artistic nude" children? In which case, it points heavily in that direction...
As for the topic, it frustrates me to no end to see parents trying to protect their children to the ends of the earth from anything and everything they themselves don't fully understand. What frustrates me even more is that anyone can just articulate that anything is "Borderline" or "Controversial" and masses or parents will just choose to shut out whatever was mentionned bordeline or controvertial out of fear without really understanding what it is.
People who are unable to think for themselves, or that force their children to be unable to think for themselves, are the plague of today's modern society.
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On March 16 2012 07:18 oBlade wrote: Fahrenheit 451 should be required reading for everyone involved in this "story."
I could not agree more. In fact, Fahrenheit should be required reading for everyone.
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On March 16 2012 22:47 Denis Lachance wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 22:37 Geisterkarle wrote:Just a few days ago I read something similar about a teacher in Switzerland: http://www.unifr.ch/oeffrecht/SVVOR/assets/files/Dienstrecht/Das Magazin Nr. 9.pdf (.pdf, German!) He read some "high literature" with some things in it, that could be pornographic. Because it was also before kids of ~14 he was suspected of being a pedophile and got a full search of his home! They found some "artistic nude" (nude meaning not totally nude, but "posing" in a "sexual context" ... whatever this means...) pictures and a court found him guilt of possession of child pornography. Lost his job and got on the "black list" so he can never ever teach again... Don't know if I should mention, that all children, he taught, all colleagues, friends and people that knew him were saying that any accusation of him being a pedophile are crap ... Were they pictures of "Artistic nude" children? In which case, it points heavily in that direction... They were pictures by David Hamilton (and others with the "same" style): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hamilton_(photographer)
It's your call if this is child pornography!
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On March 16 2012 07:10 Requizen wrote:Source: http://www.aikenstandard.com/story/0315Followup-with-school--3862406tl:dr - Teacher reads Ender's Game to her class as part of an attempt to get kids more interested in reading. 14 year old kid tells his mom, she complains to the school, teacher is put on "leave". I read Ender's Game (and indeed most of the series) around that age or younger, and it didn't scar me in any lasting way, in fact, it made me more interested in reading in general. However, I suppose I'm not indicative of every child that age. I also read Animorphs (which was actually really violent, reflecting back on it), and I don't know if those would pass the test either. Do you think Orson Scott Card's books are too "pornographic" or offensive? How about other books that are written for that age range?
It's a while since I read Ender's Game, but wasn't it basically a childhood fantasy from the perspective a the bullied school yard nerd - and thus highly appropriate for school time reading? Very disappinting.
The book's I studied at secondary school and then at Uni would have made these parents crazy. Christ the comics I'm currently writing a paper on would positively give them an aneurysm.
This is so sadly anti-intellectual it's not funny.
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On March 16 2012 08:41 TheWestWind wrote: Sorry my friends, but if you read this book in your early or mid adolescence, your critical capacity to understand the kind of violence porn that it really is was not fully functional, especially if you are identifying strongly with Ender. Which is the way the character was designed after all.
Did you know Ender's Game is required reading for US Marine Corps and Officers, as an exercise in how to justify violence?
Additionally, OSC has many personal views that many on this forum would find disgusting, including advocating the use of violence against consenting homosexual adults and denying evolution and climate change.
Not to be surprised though, nerds love their Ender's Game.
What? Required reading for Marine Corps and Officers.... for how to justify violence? The book is a giant statement AGAINST how military training brainwashes people. That's why Ender becomes the Speaker for the Dead.
Just lol at that analysis calling it "pornography"... what a crock of bullshit by someone that completely missed the point of the novel, and bashes the plot as a result of his own inability to comprehend it. That was probably one of the worst analysis I've seen of anything.
This book is an Adult book, not a "Young Adult" book. It is about young adults, but the book is intended for adults. Common mistake of publishers.
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While I haven't read Ender's game (I've heard it's amazing and I totally need to read it) and there's probably no *actual* problems with the content (especially compared to other books we've read in school... I personally enjoyed getting to yell "FUCK" at the top of my lungs in English class during Catcher In The Rye), this needs to be recognized by everyone:
If there is a district/ school policy that every book must be reviewed/ passed before being taught in class, then the teacher screwed up by not going through the proper protocol. As a future teacher, I realize all of the annoying regulations that must be recognized and hoops that must be jumped through, but Ender's Game could have been passed through anyway.
The problem isn't with the book as much as the fact that the teacher didn't okay it ahead of time. That's all there is to it. And the protocol exists just in case a teacher really does bring in a shitty book for the class to read. The school and district certainly doesn't want to be put through a shitstorm of their kids actually viewing or reading something that is inappropriate (whatever that may be). So Ender's Game isn't the problem; not following the protocol just to be safe is.
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This was required reading for me in school, and one of the favorites of nearly everyone in my class. What a sad future we live in.
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Kids are... nekkid!!!!!!!111oneoneone
There's a homoerotic subtext to Ender and Bonzo's conflict!! If you want to see it, otherwise it's not there.
There's an incest subtext with Valentine and Ender! (and a bit more than subtext with Valentine and Peter, at least from Pter's end) Yeah that one's there whether you want to see it or not.
There's... Xenocide!
In other words, it's about 300 times more tame than your typical Marvel comic these days.
How could anyone think that that is appropriate for children!?!?!?
I used to think that the people who flabbled about what is or isn't "appropriate for children" would eventually die early from heart attacks or strokes... but apparently not, medical science lets them live to a ripe old age. Public shaming doesn't seem to work either, the stultification of society seems impossible to stop. =/
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On March 16 2012 23:01 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 08:41 TheWestWind wrote: Sorry my friends, but if you read this book in your early or mid adolescence, your critical capacity to understand the kind of violence porn that it really is was not fully functional, especially if you are identifying strongly with Ender. Which is the way the character was designed after all.
Did you know Ender's Game is required reading for US Marine Corps and Officers, as an exercise in how to justify violence?
Additionally, OSC has many personal views that many on this forum would find disgusting, including advocating the use of violence against consenting homosexual adults and denying evolution and climate change.
Not to be surprised though, nerds love their Ender's Game. What? Required reading for Marine Corps and Officers.... for how to justify violence? The book is a giant statement AGAINST how military training brainwashes people. That's why Ender becomes the Speaker for the Dead. Just lol at that analysis calling it "pornography"... what a crock of bullshit by someone that completely missed the point of the novel, and bashes the plot as a result of his own inability to comprehend it. That was probably one of the worst analysis I've seen of anything. This book is an Adult book, not a "Young Adult" book. It is about young adults, but the book is intended for adults. Common mistake of publishers.
Well, lets see your analysis of that analysis where you show how it missed the point. Or perhaps this one.
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm
"The result is a character who exterminates an entire race and yet remains fundamentally innocent. The purpose of this paper is to examine the methods Card uses to construct this story of a guiltless genocide, to point out some contradictions inherent in this scenario, and to raise questions about the intention-based morality advocated by Ender’s Game and Speaker for the Dead."
Also, your message is pretty worthless.
Just LOL at Ender's Game. It is such a 'crock of bullshit' by a fundamentalist asshole who 'completely misses' the point of morality and uses clever writing to take advantage of his target audiences emotions. Ender is one of the worst written characters I've read of anywhere.
^^See how easy that is? Not to mention annoying.
Actual adults don't argue like that. When they disagree with another argument they use reason and evidence to either disprove it or present a counter-argument.
John Kessel (see above) also has some thoughts on why Ender's Game is so popular.
"I would suggest that the methods of evasion that I have delineated in the text, and their congruency with the psychology of adolescence, offer an explanation for the novel’s deep and broad popularity."
But if you love Ender's Game you should really read that paper.
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Our History teacher showed us The Gladiator when i was in 5th Grade. I dont see why this is wrong.
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On March 16 2012 23:01 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 08:41 TheWestWind wrote: Sorry my friends, but if you read this book in your early or mid adolescence, your critical capacity to understand the kind of violence porn that it really is was not fully functional, especially if you are identifying strongly with Ender. Which is the way the character was designed after all.
Did you know Ender's Game is required reading for US Marine Corps and Officers, as an exercise in how to justify violence?
Additionally, OSC has many personal views that many on this forum would find disgusting, including advocating the use of violence against consenting homosexual adults and denying evolution and climate change.
Not to be surprised though, nerds love their Ender's Game. What? Required reading for Marine Corps and Officers.... for how to justify violence? The book is a giant statement AGAINST how military training brainwashes people. That's why Ender becomes the Speaker for the Dead. Just lol at that analysis calling it "pornography"... what a crock of bullshit by someone that completely missed the point of the novel, and bashes the plot as a result of his own inability to comprehend it. That was probably one of the worst analysis I've seen of anything. This book is an Adult book, not a "Young Adult" book. It is about young adults, but the book is intended for adults. Common mistake of publishers. I'm not sure what you want to say with your last paragraph, most books are "intended" for adults, that doesn't mean a 14 year old can't read it. I would have bashed my head in at that age if I was forced to read the "young adult" category of books.
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United States24339 Posts
I'm not the first person to share a story like this, but when I was 14 or maybe 15 my 9th grade English teacher privately suggested to me I read this book (since I didn't really have any books/authors I liked at the time). It was probably one of the best suggestions a teacher has ever made to me outside of class in my life, and my parents were obviously fine with it (if not elated I was reading books lol).
By the way, this type of stuff is pretty typical in schools. Anything the teacher does is like walking on a minefield. If a teacher does something minor like this (if it counts as a >0 offense) and doesn't have tenure then the district can just get rid of them instantly with no need for due process to sort out this bullshit. Imagine that.
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Enders Game is fucking awesome. As well as the rest of the series. I read all of them years ago , and recently reread a couple. Orson Scott Card is one of my favorite authors. And MORE KIDS SHOULD READ enders game!
Hunger Games...? eh....
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I hope this means more people will read Enders game. Such a brilliant book. (the reason I bought a kindle XD)
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If we overlook OSC's personal . . . bigotry (and we should), Ender's Game is a solid book. Certainly a useful read precisely for these kids. But no, they might actually have to think. We must protect them at any cost. Right?
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On March 17 2012 02:42 TheWestWind wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 23:01 Fyrewolf wrote:On March 16 2012 08:41 TheWestWind wrote: Sorry my friends, but if you read this book in your early or mid adolescence, your critical capacity to understand the kind of violence porn that it really is was not fully functional, especially if you are identifying strongly with Ender. Which is the way the character was designed after all.
Did you know Ender's Game is required reading for US Marine Corps and Officers, as an exercise in how to justify violence?
Additionally, OSC has many personal views that many on this forum would find disgusting, including advocating the use of violence against consenting homosexual adults and denying evolution and climate change.
Not to be surprised though, nerds love their Ender's Game. What? Required reading for Marine Corps and Officers.... for how to justify violence? The book is a giant statement AGAINST how military training brainwashes people. That's why Ender becomes the Speaker for the Dead. Just lol at that analysis calling it "pornography"... what a crock of bullshit by someone that completely missed the point of the novel, and bashes the plot as a result of his own inability to comprehend it. That was probably one of the worst analysis I've seen of anything. This book is an Adult book, not a "Young Adult" book. It is about young adults, but the book is intended for adults. Common mistake of publishers. Well, lets see your analysis of that analysis where you show how it missed the point. Or perhaps this one. http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm"The result is a character who exterminates an entire race and yet remains fundamentally innocent. The purpose of this paper is to examine the methods Card uses to construct this story of a guiltless genocide, to point out some contradictions inherent in this scenario, and to raise questions about the intention-based morality advocated by Ender’s Game and Speaker for the Dead." Also, your message is pretty worthless. Just LOL at Ender's Game. It is such a 'crock of bullshit' by a fundamentalist asshole who 'completely misses' the point of morality and uses clever writing to take advantage of his target audiences emotions. Ender is one of the worst written characters I've read of anywhere. ^^See how easy that is? Not to mention annoying. Actual adults don't argue like that. When they disagree with another argument they use reason and evidence to either disprove it or present a counter-argument. John Kessel (see above) also has some thoughts on why Ender's Game is so popular. "I would suggest that the methods of evasion that I have delineated in the text, and their congruency with the psychology of adolescence, offer an explanation for the novel’s deep and broad popularity." But if you love Ender's Game you should really read that paper.
I've taken Kessel's class at NCSU. Pretty sure he just hates OSC tbh.
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It's not like she was reading Gor. Geez, this is pretty ridiculous.
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On March 17 2012 03:44 Grettin wrote: Our History teacher showed us The Gladiator when i was in 5th Grade. I dont see why this is wrong.
I find this issue to be silly, but showing 5th graders and R rated movie I find to be wrong. It's one thing if it's clips of the movie as a part of your education, but showing the entirety of the movie to 5th graders is too much. Not sure what your situation was.
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Guys, calm down. According to the comments section of the original article it might be over a different book, Victoria McKernan's Devils' Paintbox. Of course, trusting the comments section isn't the smartest move, but this seems like a situation where there might be a misunderstanding. It still might be a bad idea to punish the teacher over a different book, but let's not go crazy defending Ender's Game when Ender's Game might not even be under attack.
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I like how the teacher was put on leave for reading pornographic content.
I can see them requesting the teacher not to read the book for various other reasons if the kids obviously don't enjoy it and complain to there parents about it BUT there is nothing i could catalog as "pornographic" in 1 million year.
Then i guess, once again, its America, where people argue if porn and nu marriage sex should be legal but owning a gun is a god given right, i sometimes wonder if this kind of news come from America 90% of the time just because the market better since everyone has seen the "stupid American" thing so many times its just easier for the news to market or if this kind of events really happen in America at a 9-8/2-1 ratio to Europe This is not even bubble wraping a child, bubble wraping a child is not telling them what sex is until the 4th grade, bubble wraping a child is not letting him play a sport or ride a bike without "proper" protection, bubble wraping a child is calling him "special" when you know he is at the average of stupidity in school. This is just a whole new level of American justices system being incompetent an overall just stupid.
And it would be oky if it was just isolated cases, but they are not it seems and they have been there forever in many ways ( "African American Jim" and one of the best teenager books ever being removed from school ring a bell ? ).
I sometime wonder if there is anyone in the world who get offended that someone is naked in a completely non sex related scene in a fucking BOOK, or by the word nigger for that matter ( and no, im not talking about orb, im talking about Huckleberry finn, cuz i know there might be at least 1 guy who didn't get the above reference )
And least but not last, it horrifying that a book was the cause of this attack, if a movie,videoclip,song,picture,game... etc is attacked than i get why this might go by.
But if a book, a good damn critically acclaimed book is the cause of this attack then you should have some sort of "intellectual" community stepping in here to defend the teacher and set things right, does something like that still exist in America ? I'm pretty sure it did 20 years ago, i just fell like that country is degrading every day, its like they are trying to go a step further into every stupid things they have gotten into in the last few decades while most European countries are finally starting to un ban some stupid things and " re promote" books and good authors in schools due to the lack of interest teen have in reading nowadays.
Anyway, im going onto to much of a rant here, tl;dr point being... i strongly disagree with what happen.
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On March 17 2012 04:46 Mr Showtime wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 03:44 Grettin wrote: Our History teacher showed us The Gladiator when i was in 5th Grade. I dont see why this is wrong. I find this issue to be silly, but showing 5th graders and R rated movie I find to be wrong. It's one thing if it's clips of the movie as a part of your education, but showing the entirety of the movie to 5th graders is too much. Not sure what your situation was.
Almost the whole movie, till the class ended. Now that i think about it after many years, i find it wrong too, but back then it wasn't that bad. Of course, for some it might and probably is.
But as i said, i dont see why reading this book to these kids is wrong, especially compared to cases like i had.
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To be honest, the end of Ender's Game felt unfinished to me. It was like the author was in hurry or smthing and came up with this subpar ending.
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On March 17 2012 02:42 TheWestWind wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 23:01 Fyrewolf wrote:On March 16 2012 08:41 TheWestWind wrote: Sorry my friends, but if you read this book in your early or mid adolescence, your critical capacity to understand the kind of violence porn that it really is was not fully functional, especially if you are identifying strongly with Ender. Which is the way the character was designed after all.
Did you know Ender's Game is required reading for US Marine Corps and Officers, as an exercise in how to justify violence?
Additionally, OSC has many personal views that many on this forum would find disgusting, including advocating the use of violence against consenting homosexual adults and denying evolution and climate change.
Not to be surprised though, nerds love their Ender's Game. What? Required reading for Marine Corps and Officers.... for how to justify violence? The book is a giant statement AGAINST how military training brainwashes people. That's why Ender becomes the Speaker for the Dead. Just lol at that analysis calling it "pornography"... what a crock of bullshit by someone that completely missed the point of the novel, and bashes the plot as a result of his own inability to comprehend it. That was probably one of the worst analysis I've seen of anything. This book is an Adult book, not a "Young Adult" book. It is about young adults, but the book is intended for adults. Common mistake of publishers. Well, lets see your analysis of that analysis where you show how it missed the point. Or perhaps this one. http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm"The result is a character who exterminates an entire race and yet remains fundamentally innocent. The purpose of this paper is to examine the methods Card uses to construct this story of a guiltless genocide, to point out some contradictions inherent in this scenario, and to raise questions about the intention-based morality advocated by Ender’s Game and Speaker for the Dead." Also, your message is pretty worthless. Just LOL at Ender's Game. It is such a 'crock of bullshit' by a fundamentalist asshole who 'completely misses' the point of morality and uses clever writing to take advantage of his target audiences emotions. Ender is one of the worst written characters I've read of anywhere. ^^See how easy that is? Not to mention annoying. Actual adults don't argue like that. When they disagree with another argument they use reason and evidence to either disprove it or present a counter-argument. John Kessel (see above) also has some thoughts on why Ender's Game is so popular. "I would suggest that the methods of evasion that I have delineated in the text, and their congruency with the psychology of adolescence, offer an explanation for the novel’s deep and broad popularity." But if you love Ender's Game you should really read that paper.
I never said whether I like or dislike the book, and did not analyze the analysis, just made some comments about it. And yes he did "completely miss" the point. It's NOT a story of a "guiltless genocide". At the end, Ender is so Guilt-Ridden about the fact he committed genocide, that he completely abandons the planet to leave on the colony ships and becomes the Speaker for the Dead. Ender Wiggen ceases to exist and he becomes Andrew Wiggen because it is so traumatizing to him. Because of the guilt he feels, he's continually trying to repent for the next 3000 years and next 3 books.
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"The result is a character who exterminates an entire race and yet remains fundamentally innocent. The purpose of this paper is to examine the methods Card uses to construct this story of a guiltless genocide, to point out some contradictions inherent in this scenario, and to raise questions about the intention-based morality advocated by Ender’s Game and Speaker for the Dead."
Why should we care about some academic "analysis" of the Ender series when the whole series is basically two things and two things only (well, three if you count OSC's endless fascination with having characters act like just huge flaming assholes towards each other and justifying it because they're right, dammit!:
1. Ender has his entire life stolen from him, at no point until he reaches Lusitania does he ever really get to make choices for himself 2. Ender must redeem himself for the xenocide in order to get redemption which comes in the form of a do-over for his life (thanks to, of course, some deus ex machina)
Nowhere does Card create a guiltless genocide, and none of the characters, not even Ender himself, believe that Ender is fundamentally innocent. Certainly that's what the reader is supposed to believe, but that's only because OSC is so heavy-handed in making Ender into Jesus in space. The problem is that OSC actually just isn't a good writer and couldn't develop his themes subtly through plot and character development so he does plot and character development with a big brass band instead.
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On March 17 2012 04:12 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 23:01 Fyrewolf wrote:On March 16 2012 08:41 TheWestWind wrote: Sorry my friends, but if you read this book in your early or mid adolescence, your critical capacity to understand the kind of violence porn that it really is was not fully functional, especially if you are identifying strongly with Ender. Which is the way the character was designed after all.
Did you know Ender's Game is required reading for US Marine Corps and Officers, as an exercise in how to justify violence?
Additionally, OSC has many personal views that many on this forum would find disgusting, including advocating the use of violence against consenting homosexual adults and denying evolution and climate change.
Not to be surprised though, nerds love their Ender's Game. What? Required reading for Marine Corps and Officers.... for how to justify violence? The book is a giant statement AGAINST how military training brainwashes people. That's why Ender becomes the Speaker for the Dead. Just lol at that analysis calling it "pornography"... what a crock of bullshit by someone that completely missed the point of the novel, and bashes the plot as a result of his own inability to comprehend it. That was probably one of the worst analysis I've seen of anything. This book is an Adult book, not a "Young Adult" book. It is about young adults, but the book is intended for adults. Common mistake of publishers. I'm not sure what you want to say with your last paragraph, most books are "intended" for adults, that doesn't mean a 14 year old can't read it. I would have bashed my head in at that age if I was forced to read the "young adult" category of books.
As would I if I was forced to read such books. It was merely a response to some of those in the thread who keep referring to it that way. A young adult could read "War and Peace", but people may not necessarily think it was appropriate, or could grasp all the concepts within, or whatever. It is an individual thing in the end as to whether or not a child is ready for a particular book. The point is that just because the book involves children, doesn't mean it's for children. His Dark Materials series (the golden compass) is also about children, but has some very advanced concepts that many children may not fully be able to comprehend when they read it. Does it mean they shouldn't read it yet? No, but they will understand more when they reread it as an adult.
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I can't even remember any sexual content in that book... Oo
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On March 17 2012 04:46 Mr Showtime wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 03:44 Grettin wrote: Our History teacher showed us The Gladiator when i was in 5th Grade. I dont see why this is wrong. I find this issue to be silly, but showing 5th graders and R rated movie I find to be wrong. It's one thing if it's clips of the movie as a part of your education, but showing the entirety of the movie to 5th graders is too much. Not sure what your situation was. We watched Austin Powers in middle school and I didn't end up being a sexual deviant...
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i think the teacher got in trouble for reading a book before having it approved by the school pursuant to school guidelines. title and op seem misleading to me. if as a teacher you dont follow school rules, you should be punished.
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On March 17 2012 06:01 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +"The result is a character who exterminates an entire race and yet remains fundamentally innocent. The purpose of this paper is to examine the methods Card uses to construct this story of a guiltless genocide, to point out some contradictions inherent in this scenario, and to raise questions about the intention-based morality advocated by Ender’s Game and Speaker for the Dead." Why should we care about some academic "analysis" of the Ender series when the whole series is basically two things and two things only (well, three if you count OSC's endless fascination with having characters act like just huge flaming assholes towards each other and justifying it because they're right, dammit!: 1. Ender has his entire life stolen from him, at no point until he reaches Lusitania does he ever really get to make choices for himself 2. Ender must redeem himself for the xenocide in order to get redemption which comes in the form of a do-over for his life (thanks to, of course, some deus ex machina) Nowhere does Card create a guiltless genocide, and none of the characters, not even Ender himself, believe that Ender is fundamentally innocent. Certainly that's what the reader is supposed to believe, but that's only because OSC is so heavy-handed in making Ender into Jesus in space. The problem is that OSC actually just isn't a good writer and couldn't develop his themes subtly through plot and character development so he does plot and character development with a big brass band instead.
Hahaha, I never thought of it that way, but you're right. Card just can't do subtle. His writing isn't terrible by any stretch, and he has a lot of good ideas and really likeable characters, but the way he waves exposition and plot around is really ham-fisted sometimes, and anything but subtle.
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I thought Ender's Game was one of the best books we read in school. I read it when I was younger and didn't think any of it was inappropriate. I don't think they'll ban it as widely as Harry Potter, as it's been in circulation for decades.
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Public school has to be watered down to the extant that the lowest common denominator in the class dictates the curriculum. I was in 'gifted' classes from age 8 on and found the same problem, even among the 'brightest' minds. I am by no means gifted, or even smart by most people's standards, but the fact that the vocal minority control anything is complete bullshit. If your child is offended by a children's book, perhaps better parenting is the first change you should look to make.
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Ender's Game is not only a harmless read language-wise, it's also an incredibly powerful book with a strong message and a tale about friendship, morals, growing up and dealing with authority. Why someone would label it as pornographic, and why any institution would actually go ahead and investigate such a claim on that scale is beyond me. This is the combination of a delusional and ignorant parent and an overly beaurocratic and badly informed school board. And it's sad.
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On March 17 2012 06:17 DeepElemBlues wrote: The problem is that OSC actually just isn't a good writer and couldn't develop his themes subtly through plot and character development so he does plot and character development with a big brass band instead.
That seems like a heavy-handed criticism. Are you published? Have you written anything at all? Or have you just gotten really good at criticizing the work of others?
I haven't read Ender's Game so I can't pretend to know, but saying someone "isn't a good writer" when talking about an award-winning, fairly successful book raises some concerns...
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Sounds like another case of the spoiled-and-super-sensitive-kid that gets what he wants because he got scared once.
Like come on people.... it's not even that bad of a book...
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On March 17 2012 07:29 justle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 06:17 Fyrewolf wrote: The problem is that OSC actually just isn't a good writer and couldn't develop his themes subtly through plot and character development so he does plot and character development with a big brass band instead. That seems like a heavy-handed criticism. Are you published? Have you written anything at all? Or have you just gotten really good at criticizing the work of others? I haven't read Ender's Game so I can't pretend to know, but saying someone "isn't a good writer" when talking about an award-winning, fairly successful book raises some concerns...
Way to misquote. That was DeepElemBlues whom I quoted in my post, not me. And he is entitled to his opinion. You don't have to be a good writer to analyze writing, as my english teacher who admits she can't write says.
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Word, sorry Fyrewolf, didn't mean to throw you under the bus. I don't believe in cutting any kind of artist down simply because you don't connect with their work, especially something with as much acclaim as Ender's Game, and that's what DeepElemBlues seemed to be doing.
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On March 17 2012 06:01 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +"The result is a character who exterminates an entire race and yet remains fundamentally innocent. The purpose of this paper is to examine the methods Card uses to construct this story of a guiltless genocide, to point out some contradictions inherent in this scenario, and to raise questions about the intention-based morality advocated by Ender’s Game and Speaker for the Dead." Why should we care about some academic "analysis" of the Ender series when the whole series is basically two things and two things only (well, three if you count OSC's endless fascination with having characters act like just huge flaming assholes towards each other and justifying it because they're right, dammit!: 1. Ender has his entire life stolen from him, at no point until he reaches Lusitania does he ever really get to make choices for himself 2. Ender must redeem himself for the xenocide in order to get redemption which comes in the form of a do-over for his life (thanks to, of course, some deus ex machina) Nowhere does Card create a guiltless genocide, and none of the characters, not even Ender himself, believe that Ender is fundamentally innocent. Certainly that's what the reader is supposed to believe, but that's only because OSC is so heavy-handed in making Ender into Jesus in space. The problem is that OSC actually just isn't a good writer and couldn't develop his themes subtly through plot and character development so he does plot and character development with a big brass band instead.
Um, just try to think clearly for one minute, OK?
In your point the second, Ender must redeem himself for the xenocide which, via your point the first, he never chose to commit? How can you be morally responsible for something over which you had no choice? The fact is that where there is no choice there can be no morality.
Not saying you are wrong, just saying that is why academic analysis of these kinds of books can be helpful.
The problem isn't with OSC's writing, which is technically good (above average I would say), but with his philosophy.
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I hate how because one sensitive parent says the word, the teacher gets let go without a chance to explain or anything.
And people why there are so few great public school teachers.
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In your point the second, Ender must redeem himself for the xenocide which, via your point the first, he never chose to commit? How can you be morally responsible for something over which you had no choice? The fact is that where there is no choice there can be no morality.
Not saying you are wrong, just saying that is why academic analysis of these kinds of books can be helpful.
The fact is that that is an assertion that is a starting point for a philosophical discussion, not an assertion to be dressed up as a fact to base an analysis on.
As such, it is actually a perfect example of why academic "analysis" is usually anything but; rather, it is an excuse to assert whatever the author usually already believed before the "analysis" took place.
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I got a book from my school library that I thought was just a victorian-era crime drama featuring an innocent, platonic friendship between a naive and innocent-seeming mistress who in reality had an abusive past, and her servant who was secretly a thief trying to rip her off but then ended up liking her so she couldn't do it. But then they turned out to be lesbians and even did dirty things in bed together, and then the maid got thrown into the CRAZY HOSPITAL for being a lesbian, and some other things happened but anyway it ended up with them living happily ever after and making a living by writing erotic fiction.
And this book was on a list of reading recommended by teachers! Why, I ought to write a letter. An ANGRY letter.
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On March 17 2012 08:07 Holytornados wrote: I hate how because one sensitive parent says the word, the teacher gets let go without a chance to explain or anything.
And people why there are so few great public school teachers. i hate how people make comments without reading the article.
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On March 16 2012 07:17 Kickboxer wrote: jesus christ holy fuck what the fuck
my sentiments...
This is a great example of the crazy society we've built where one retard wacko complainer can ruin things for everyone. I think they should re-instate the teacher and give him a god damn medal and tell that bitch to fuck off.
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On March 17 2012 08:36 Drowsy wrote:my sentiments... This is a great example of the crazy society we've built where one retard wacko complainer can ruin things for everyone. I think they should re-instate the teacher and give him a god damn medal and tell that bitch to fuck off.
The teacher reportedly selected the books, but may have not followed school policy that would require the books first be reviewed. seems medal worthy to me.
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On March 16 2012 10:36 Simberto wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This article is either unclear, or very manipulative. I find it interesting that, while it mentions Enders Game whenever possible, and that a book is considered pornographic, it never explicitly says that Enders Game is the questionable book there, but it is the only one of the three books named here. I somehow get the feeling that this article is just pure nerdbaiting, trying to enrage fans of the Ender series. Now, i don't know more about this then from the article, so i don't know if they are actually doing this, but it feels very much like the article tries to twist facts, so i am inclined to believe that the book the school and parents had a problem with was actually one of the other two that are not mentioned by name.
What i would guess actually happened (without having more information about this), is that the teacher read three books, one of those Enders Game, one a far more explicit and controversial book, the parents complained about that book, the teacher got problems.The reporter noticed that he would get far more views by implying that enders game was the problematic book, but did not want to outright lie, so he used confusing terminology. Thus we get a thread here and elsewhere, and he gets views and addmoney.
Not sure whether the article was trying to be manipulative, but it sounds like you're right that Ender's Game wasn't really the issue. I found this article: http://io9.com/5893928/an-update-on-the-sc-teacher-suspended-for-reading-from-pornographic-enders-game which says that the parent's complaint was to do with a passage referring to a prostitute getting ejaculated on. If such a passage was read, it sure wasn't from Ender's Game... The article also gives the other two books as well; I read the agatha christie one, also nothing pornographic in that, and I don't know the other one. But I find it suspicious that if such a passage was read, other students didn't complain. This makes me think that there was some misunderstanding or misinterpretation somewhere in the student's mind.
Having gone through public middle school, it occurs to me that what could have easily happened (assuming the best of everyone involved) is that the teacher read some passage from Ender's Game and then tried to have a discussion, and classmates brought up sexual allegories or something, leading the discussion down that path. Then the student felt he was being taught pornographic material, mentioned it to his parents, who flipped out and demand "what book was this??" and were told "Ender's Game". The parents having never read the book, assumed it was true and made this complaint. The school heard the complaint, scoffed at the idea (like many of us are inclined to do) and got ridiculously defensive, stonewalling the parent. The parent in return got all high and mighty and went to the police instead, and suddenly it's news! Meanwhile, the teacher gets put on leave as damage control, which (based on what my two teachforamerica friends tell me) sadly will always compromise his or her career no matter how this is resolved in the end.
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Parents will complain about anything
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Northern Ireland20680 Posts
I don't really understand why parents get so on their high horses on such issues. Exposure to bad language/sexual innuendo happens if you have peers of that age, parenting is not about shutting down information to your kid, but being an adequate filter in terms of explaining it and instilling certain moral attitudes.
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