North Korea to launch rocket April 12-16 - Page 6
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zeru
8156 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On March 31 2012 01:55 zeru wrote: That's so minor i didnt even remember it. But yeah that did happen. Still nothing compared to the current wars that are going on. I have a feeling those "paranoid" people in South Korea remember it. | ||
Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On March 30 2012 18:02 mensrea wrote: The (low) level of discourse in this thread is Alzheimer's-inducing. The ignorance meter has just been cranked to 11. For the record, any time any nation state announces plans to develop and test ballistics technology in the professed name of space exploration, scientitifc research, near-Earth orbit satellite deployment and the like, that's code for "we'd like to develop and test intercontinental missile delivery systems, but can't say that publicly so we'll call it science instead and laugh while 99% of the obviously braindead people of the world believe what we say, haha". I'm talking about Japan, Korea (South), India, etc., all part of the club of nations that have made in recent years seemingly innocuous announcements about the launching of satellites, the research and development of related "rocket technology", etc. Space race? Rockets? Missiles? Get a clue people, the technology and engineering are for practical purposes identical. Of course, the US, China, Russia, UK, France (ie The Fab Five of the UN Security Council) don't need to play that game because, well, they got there first and then made up rules to stop anyone else from achieving essentially the same capability. If you want to talk about the destabilizing proliferation of long-range armament delivery systems, look no further than the governments operating in your back yard. Unless you live in Sweden, in which case all you care about is video games and ABBA. North Korea? Please. They are hanging on by their finger nails. They pose no more credible threat to the US than does Cuba. I thought this was supposed to be an informed post? You seem to have missed the entire point of the NK situation. We all know that the US can easily wipe out NK, that is common sense. But the fact still stands that this isn't about the safety of the US, rather it primarily extends to SK and the countries surrounding the Korean peninsula. A conflict in Korea might be laughable for the US, but it sure as hell wont be for the 50% of SK's population that resides in Seoul. Furthermore, the conflict will raise serious ramifications and repercussions of the future political landscape of the peninsula with the potential for Unification. US and China will be scrambling to fill the political vacuum if NK ever goes down.....increasing the tensions between the two superpowers and potentially creating conflict. Not sure what's up with your slight at Sweden. | ||
ninini
Sweden1204 Posts
On March 31 2012 01:39 zeru wrote: Who's to decide who's allowed to have functional nuclear weapons or not? Was quite a long time since NK took ACTUAL military action towards anyone, whereas several other countries which have nuclear weapons are involved in wars, including the only country who has actually used nuclear weapons in wars( and against civilians). Yep. People are so paranoid and ignorant about this whole thing. And for some reason seem to think they NK are going to nuke things just because they have the technology and not care about retals. Wonder if people are believing what they are posting here. North Korea isn't a threat to the rest of the world, that's not where the problem lies, but what they have done to their own ppl over the last 60 years is inexcusable. It's not right that a country which is going through such a crisis and is so underdeveloped invest so much into their army, nonetheless a weapons program. It's kind of like a large and poor family where the father is spending all his money on liquor and hookers, while his children are starving. NK's priorities are just so frikn wrong and unethical, and that's why most ppl are so fired up about them. | ||
jello_biafra
United Kingdom6631 Posts
Seriously though I have no idea why they would do this, even if they claim it's a simple satellite test it breaks the treaty that they JUST SIGNED to get food aid for their starving people. | ||
zeru
8156 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On March 31 2012 02:04 zeru wrote: So the US's priorities, and every other warring counties priorities are completely right, spending more money on warring for oil, than say education, healthcare, and similar more important things? Saying they're the only ones not prioritizing correctly is beyond false. Sure NK is pretty damn bad, there are worse things going on in places like Africa. Why does everything always come back to the US with angst filled nerds? He didn't say they are the only one prioritizing, he said the proportion of military spending compared to their domestic issues is laughably and intolerably high, which is true. | ||
mensrea
Canada5062 Posts
On March 31 2012 01:58 Golgotha wrote: I thought this was supposed to be an informed post? You seem to have missed the entire point of the NK situation. We all know that the US can easily wipe out NK, that is common sense. But the fact still stands that this isn't about the safety of the US, rather it primarily extends to SK and the countries surrounding the Korean peninsula. A conflict in Korea might be laughable for the US, but it sure as hell wont be for the 50% of SK's population that resides in Seoul. Furthermore, the conflict will raise serious ramifications and repercussions of the future political landscape of the peninsula with the potential for Unification. US and China will be scrambling to fill the political vacuum if NK ever goes down.....increasing the tensions between the two superpowers and potentially creating conflict. Not sure what's up with your slight at Sweden. Your whole post is a non sequitur. It's almost noon which means it's getting close to nap time for you. Don't forget to grab the pacifier on your way to bed. Fucking kids. | ||
BillyJoe
Canada60 Posts
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
So the US's priorities, and every other warring counties priorities are completely right, spending more money on warring for oil, than say education, healthcare, and similar more important things? Saying they're the only ones not prioritizing correctly is beyond false. Sure NK is pretty damn bad, there are worse things going on in places like Africa. Wrong. You can flee from Africa. You can only flee from North-Korea if you are fine with letting your family be executed for your crimes. You know what they do to your children? Work camps. You know what will happen to your grandchildren that get born in these camps? Work camps. Yes, that is right. There are children in North-Korean work camps that are being punished for the 'crimes' that the generation before them did. An entire people are being broken by the North-Korean government. North-Korea is the worst place on earth. A slave from birth till death, and everyone that doesn't march to the drum of the state will see their family be executed, imprisoned, or worked to death. In Africa, you can trust your family. In North-Korea, your own brother could be the reason you get sent to a work camp. Read some books on the Stasi to get an understanding of just how invasive the reach of the state can be, and how completly alien it is. You think you understand the horrors, but all your posts are proof of the opposite. You don't wake up every morning, making sure that the picture of the dear leader is perfectly straight, because otherwise you just committed a crime that can see your entire life destroyed. Meanwhile, the most remote parts of North-Korea are in a complete isolation. What few images we get are from Pyongyang. Outside of the capitol, people are starving to death, resorting to eating dirt, grass or each other. And if you complain? If you don't fall to your knees and thank the dear leader that you are alive and starving? Execution. Every day you are told to worship the man that is the cause of all your suffering, and failure to do so will mean the end of your life. But you can't even throw yourself on the sword, because the state will murder your friends and family. You can't even gracefully reject this sickening world that is being offered. There is worse? Such a statement can only come from a lack of knowledge. | ||
zeru
8156 Posts
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ninini
Sweden1204 Posts
On March 31 2012 02:04 zeru wrote: So the US's priorities, and every other warring counties priorities are completely right, spending more money on warring for oil, than say education, healthcare, and similar more important things? Saying they're the only ones not prioritizing correctly is beyond false. Sure NK is pretty damn bad, there are worse things going on in places like Africa. No. Can you name a country in Africa where all of these things are true: They have no freedom whatsoever. They have locked up the entire population as if they were criminals, and shoots down anyone who tries to move across the border. That tortures, executes and enslaves ppl who complain about how the country is being run. That forcefully aborts fetuses that were conceived outside of the North Korean border (because of the chance that the baby isn't purebred Korean). And btw, most of these babies were conceived after someone helped the north korean woman pass the border and then sold her to a chinese farmer. A country where you get punished for what your relatives have done and where some children are born into slave-labor camps (Shin Dong Hyuk). A country where they do human-experiments, similar to what was going on in Nazi-Germany. (There are a few North Korean defector ex-guards who have given detailed descriptions over these things) As for the starvation, it's unclear how bad it is, but they are definately among the worst in the world, and considering how organized the country is, there's no comparison for how terrible they're doing on the food front. North Korea is today the worst hell-hole on earth, and that's a fact. | ||
stokes17
United States1411 Posts
On March 31 2012 03:04 ninini wrote: No. Can you name a country in Africa where all of these things are true: They have no freedom whatsoever. They have locked up the entire population as if they were criminals, and shoots down anyone who tries to move across the border. That tortures, executes and enslaves ppl who complain about how the country is being run. That forcefully aborts fetuses that were conceived outside of the North Korean border (because of the chance that the baby isn't purebred Korean). And btw, most of these babies were conceived after someone helped the north korean woman pass the border and then sold her to a chinese farmer. A country where you get punished for what your relatives have done and where some children are born into slave-labor camps (Shin Dong Hyuk). A country where they do human-experiments, similar to what was going on in Nazi-Germany. (There are a few North Korean defector ex-guards who have given detailed descriptions over these things) As for the starvation, it's unclear how bad it is, but they are definately among the worst in the world, and considering how organized the country is, there's no comparison for how terrible they're doing on the food front. North Korea is today the worst hell-hole on earth, and that's a fact. While I am certainly not an expert in the world's hell holes. I will say as an avid vice guide viewer that the NK episode was the most heartbreaking of the bunch for me. I'm so unbelievably sad for all the NK citizens who don't even know what they are missing out on in life. The amount of brain washing in that country makes 1984 look like a utopia. On the topic of a missile launch: Is this event at all different from the previous 3 tests they've done over the past decade? I guess I'm asking if their technology is advancing or are they just beating their chest. Either way, totally understand why the Korean Peninsula and their neighbors would be concerned. | ||
hifriend
China7935 Posts
On March 31 2012 01:39 zeru wrote: Who's to decide who's allowed to have functional nuclear weapons or not? Was quite a long time since NK took ACTUAL military action towards anyone, whereas several other countries which have nuclear weapons are involved in wars. Uh yeah.. I think everyone should be concerned when any nation attempts to aquire nuclear arms and the capability to deliver them. I'm certainly not a big fan of USA "do as I say, not as I do" policy when it is in fact the only nation that has ever carried out nuclear attacks. Still, two wrongs don't make one right and for obvious reasons it is a more severe scenario when a totalitarian regime with a total lack of democratic process and a recent history of erratic and bizarre behaviors (only recently the shelling incident on SK territory) develops these technologies. If you don't see how a person born into power in a desperate regime, that's currently at war, having the option of detonating nukes in some of the most populated places in the world at his own will is reason for concern, then I honestly think there's something wrong with you. But in the end, all the world can do is impose sanctions that are ultimately ineffective for as long as China doesn't follow suite, and of course the real victims are the population of NK. | ||
Carson
Canada820 Posts
On March 31 2012 03:04 ninini wrote: No. Can you name a country in Africa where all of these things are true: They have no freedom whatsoever. They have locked up the entire population as if they were criminals, and shoots down anyone who tries to move across the border. That tortures, executes and enslaves ppl who complain about how the country is being run. That forcefully aborts fetuses that were conceived outside of the North Korean border (because of the chance that the baby isn't purebred Korean). And btw, most of these babies were conceived after someone helped the north korean woman pass the border and then sold her to a chinese farmer. A country where you get punished for what your relatives have done and where some children are born into slave-labor camps (Shin Dong Hyuk). A country where they do human-experiments, similar to what was going on in Nazi-Germany. (There are a few North Korean defector ex-guards who have given detailed descriptions over these things) As for the starvation, it's unclear how bad it is, but they are definately among the worst in the world, and considering how organized the country is, there's no comparison for how terrible they're doing on the food front. North Korea is today the worst hell-hole on earth, and that's a fact. No it isn't. What you've done is give a few examples of some terrible things that happen. Nothing like Rwanda is happening there, nothing like the Holocaust, things are bad, but NK is not "the worst hell-hole on earth". You think that it is because it's mysterious. Haiti is probably worse off than NK, as are a host of African countries. Look at these links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine | ||
archonOOid
1983 Posts
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Alay
United States660 Posts
On March 30 2012 18:02 mensrea wrote: The (low) level of discourse in this thread is Alzheimer's-inducing. The ignorance meter has just been cranked to 11. For the record, any time any nation state announces plans to develop and test ballistics technology in the professed name of space exploration, scientitifc research, near-Earth orbit satellite deployment and the like, that's code for "we'd like to develop and test intercontinental missile delivery systems, but can't say that publicly so we'll call it science instead and laugh while 99% of the obviously braindead people of the world believe what we say, haha". I'm talking about Japan, Korea (South), India, etc., all part of the club of nations that have made in recent years seemingly innocuous announcements about the launching of satellites, the research and development of related "rocket technology", etc. Space race? Rockets? Missiles? Get a clue people, the technology and engineering are for practical purposes identical. Of course, the US, China, Russia, UK, France (ie The Fab Five of the UN Security Council) don't need to play that game because, well, they got there first and then made up rules to stop anyone else from achieving essentially the same capability. If you want to talk about the destabilizing proliferation of long-range armament delivery systems, look no further than the governments operating in your back yard. Unless you live in Sweden, in which case all you care about is video games and ABBA. North Korea? Please. They are hanging on by their finger nails. They pose no more credible threat to the US than does Cuba. Space programs in those countries are very real things. The sad truth of life is that anything good can just as likely be turned into something very bad. Discrediting them, or space exploration as a whole, as it currently uses rocket propulsion in much of the world is a very dirty thing. That being said, North Korea is probably just doing the same thing they've always been doing since as long as I can remember. Showing off their shiny missiles, their atomic weapons, and saying "You guys like Seoul right? Why not give us some food so we can just put these back into storage for a bit." | ||
ninini
Sweden1204 Posts
On March 31 2012 03:20 Carson wrote: No it isn't. What you've done is give a few examples of some terrible things that happen. Nothing like Rwanda is happening there, nothing like the Holocaust, things are bad, but NK is not "the worst hell-hole on earth". You think that it is because it's mysterious. Haiti is probably worse off than NK, as are a host of African countries. Look at these links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine North Korea's GDP/capita is dangerously low. South Korea is 15-20 times better, and there's no reason why North Korea shouldn't be close to that, especially considering how organized it is. I can't imagine small time african governments organizing huge events like this: The problem with most african countries is that they don't have any stability, but North Korea have that. Such a united country shouldn't be struggling this much. No Rwanda/Holocaust? You're wrong. If your uncle does something stupid, you're punished as well, so they target certain ppl, just like in those examples, it's just that the ppl they target aren't as specifically defined, but it's still the same thing. Plus, in North Korea you get punished for just expressing your thoughts, so a large amounts of these ppl haven't even done anything wrong according to western values. | ||
Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On March 30 2012 19:47 sharky246 wrote: Well, iirc, there is a restriction for all other countries that dont have nuclear weapons currently, to have up to only a certain amount of uranium such that they can't create a nuclear weapon, so i don't think japan, south korea etc would bother to develop intercontinental missile delivery, unless there are other uses for it. I thought it was common knowledge that SK Japan and India had nukes? Israel too obviously, but since when have they cared about the UN... | ||
{CC}StealthBlue
United States41087 Posts
Tokyo has upped the ante in a looming face-off over North Korea's planned rocket launch next month by vowing to shoot it down if it threatens Japanese territory. Japan's cabinet issued the destroy order to the Minister of Defence, Naoki Tanaka, yesterday, giving him the green light to intercept the rocket "if necessary". Surface-to-air missiles have already been deployed in central Tokyo and southern Japan, near the missile's expected flight path. The threat follows the release of private satellite photos apparently showing preparations for the launch at Tongchang-ri. The launch has been timed to coincide with the 100th anniversary of the birth of the North's founding father, Kim Il-sung, on 15 April, though it could come a few days before or after that. Washington and its allies, including Japan, say the rocket launch is a test for long-range ballistic technology but Pyongyang insists it will put an observation satellite into space. The North's Central News Agency called the launch a "legitimate exercise" of its "inalienable sovereign right to peaceful exploration of outer space, universally shared by every member of the world". Source | ||
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