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jca, i'm working with someone on BW rep file API and file manager. we like what you did with BWchart and would like to know if you want to work with us to have everything in one app.
the rep manager app we have is very simple at the moment, we plan to add searching capabilities, superview features, etc.
let me know if you interested.
if you want to see what we have so far:
http://www.battlereports.com/users/HurtnTime/bwrepmgr.zip
It has little functionality at the moment. You can browse your folders and if you select a BW rep file then it will display information about it such as the map, players, races, etc.
Let me know if you have any trouble with it. It has not been tested very well.
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Very cool and nice to see ppl doing stuff like this oO;~~
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OMG, tha's such a great program.. GREAT JOB!!!
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HurtnTime, I just tried bwrepmgr and it looks pretty good so far (C++ with MFC?)
bwrepmgr can already display the replay header so I assume that you know how to decompress the whole thing and get the list of actions, am i right?
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HurtnTime, I LUV U, Contact me at msn: muhweli@hotmail.com, icq: 18642988 or e-mail: muhweli@paivola.net
I need to ask a couple of questions concerning the technical structure of the program and about the program source code. (Will it be public by any part btw?)
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Hey jca, do you think you can add a feature to the program that allows one to adjust the y-scale? because often in the action/minute there are peaks which cause the 'autofit' (?) to make scales up to 2000 act/min, making it being hard to interpretate the graph
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saab i doubt you had a peak of 2000 because that means that you performed 33.3 actions in that second
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thx very gosu
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2000 is very high indeed, i cant find the replay where it was anymore, but i can find ones where it reaches up to 700
numbers can cheat in various ways
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Indeed, in some reps the players seem to repeat some actions (probably from keyboard autorepeat) many times in a row, which results in a very high peak on the action/minute curve. I think I will set a maximum for that curve, maybe 500?
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My ICQ is: 1514534 MSN: jorgeRlopez@hotmail.com
jca, I did it in C++ and MFC using Visual Studio .NET. However, I expect it to work just fine under Visual Studio 6.0. In fact, I might start compilining it in VC 6.0 so I dont have to include all those DLLs with the application.
About the rep file itself. I received code that uncompresses it all and the header section is figured out pretty good (important info anyways). The map section is documented at another website since its just like a map file. The third section is all the user actions and I got some info from the developer of SuperView (William WC3), Fractaled, and Brefan so should be able to decode it in short order the next time I have some time available.
By the way, I read in some other threads some people concerned about Blizzard going after anyone who reads rep files. That is just non-sense. Rep files are user data. Any Word processor worth anything can import MS Word .DOC files and it is not a published format. User data is fair game. Another example is the reverse engineering of AutoCAD drawings by OpenDWG Alliance (www.opendwg.org).
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500 seems good yes...
by the way, isnt it possible to show current supply stock by simply counting everything that goes in and out? (as mentioned at your site)
but then as an option in the program
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There is already a curve for supply. But it's not the "current supply". It's the "total supply" since beginning of game. This is because from the .rep we can tell when units are built, but not when they are killed. So we don't know when supply goes down.
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oh... also, often at the end of the game (or lategame) you see the gascurve shows during some intervals a straight line, asif nothing is being mined, do you know why?
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oh... also, often at the end of the game (or lategame) you see the gascurve shows during some intervals a straight line, asif nothing is being mined, do you know why?
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sorry for the double post, guess i pressed reload before back..
anyhow, would it be possible to make a time derivative of the supply stock to have a production?
btw, i dont want to pressure you or anything, but if you need idea's, i have some
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
jca, there is a problem with your BWChart program. I'm not sure how exactly it's calculating how many units a player built during the course of the game, but it definitely seems to be doing it wrong. For instance, I made a short rep where I built 7 probes and started my 8th before leaving, then viewed it and was told that I had made 12 probes and that my opponent had made 13 drones =/.
I don't see how you could correctly calculate something like that, anyway, since the rep records all actions whether they work or they fail.
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the program counts the units you start with (4 probes/drones) as 'built' units
doesn't really matter though, at larger (realistic) timescales the difference is negligible
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I found reps from KPGA when Marine got 1100act/min but there are only 2 peaks like that. He's got average about 260-280. __ EmKey
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
i found one nada 3 peaks of 6000
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Here's an odd error...
When you view a rep with superview it creates a corresponding file in the c: directory. The file sizes are much larger than a normal rep. But, check out the file size of the last rep in this list:
http://www.geocities.com/email_elsie/superexpand.html
That was all the remaining space on my hard drive. Any ideas what is happening?
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jca dont set any caps on max act/min please :D
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
Why not make it optional, and/or let the user choose when to cap it?
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nono please dont!
btw you could like make an option to calculate average actions/min w/out taking into consideration the first&last 2 mins
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Bill307, can you please post the rep where you built 8 probes and bwchart reports 12. Thx.
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some temp file cleanup would be nice
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that Replay Manager is very cool too :-)
Mind to send me the source code of the MPQ parser though? I program in VC++ 6.0 as well :-)
maze.
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MURICA15980 Posts
On May 05 2003 00:05 amat wrote: Here's an odd error... When you view a rep with superview it creates a corresponding file in the c: directory. The file sizes are much larger than a normal rep. But, check out the file size of the last rep in this list: http://www.geocities.com/email_elsie/superexpand.htmlThat was all the remaining space on my hard drive. Any ideas what is happening?
yeah i noticed that too... what's going on?
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On May 07 2003 03:52 HoloPainen wrote: whats that little number before the action count, and act/min? for example: 1.15
If you were not lasy to read the whole post, you would see that i recommended him to put an aspect ration between players on different stuff. That number represent the APM ration and it means that 1 player is in example, 1.25 times faster than the other and player 2 is .75 times "slower" or just faster backwards way.
Basically you can see the difference between the player's APM but with addition of the graph its not that usefull.
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anything above 400 is ridiculous. I got 3 NaDa replays that are 330. FroZ averages 240, DReaMe gets like 195, Nazgul is at a ridiculously slow 135. =P
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On May 07 2003 03:55 Klogon wrote: Show nested quote +On May 05 2003 00:05 amat wrote: Here's an odd error... When you view a rep with superview it creates a corresponding file in the c: directory. The file sizes are much larger than a normal rep. But, check out the file size of the last rep in this list: http://www.geocities.com/email_elsie/superexpand.htmlThat was all the remaining space on my hard drive. Any ideas what is happening? yeah i noticed that too... what's going on?
same
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Try bwchart 1.00R (just out from the oven) which doesn't use SuperView anymore. You won't get those files filling up your c: drive, and you won't have to start 2 executables. Isn't it nice?
Also, you will be able to see the events counted as "null", that is the events that probably didn't do anything (failed train, failed build, etc). Of course it's only an estimation so don't jump (yet) on your keyboards to tell me the numbers are wrong
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Hi everyone! I've just made an account here, because i have to tell you something. I've seen that Replay Manager program, and it happens, that i've been working on something similar before SuperView come out. So i have a program called ReplaySearchEngine that has a nice searching option, but can't read the info from the replay files. Here are some links where you can download it:
http://www.freeweb.hu/botc/dl/ReplaySearch.ace http://www.rts.hu/?columb_id=2&id=3020
These are hungarian sites, but you should not have any problems with it, if any write me a mail to the_overlord@rdslink.ro. The second link surely has version 1.1, for the first I don't know it may be version 1.0 which has some bugs, and has not some features. I'd like to ask the writer of the Replay Manager to help me on decompressing the replay files, because that would let me read the info from the header. Thanks in advance.
P.S. Run the program in min, 1024x768, because it has some big windows
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how do i open files .ace?
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You need WinAce i suppose. But the second link has a zip, which you can decompress with win/total commander.
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jca, when i open some replay (1 of 5 from boxer-zeus series, which superview did not open for some reason) and check the action destribution zeus has 1523 moves and 1263 hotkey but if I disable boxers clicks and it shows only zeus's i see his actions to drop: moves 152, hotkeys 126... If i do it vice versa for boxer it stays the same... bug?
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I've just downloaded the nwe bwchart. It seems that jca figured out how to decompress replays. Could you help me please?
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NoNameLoser, I can't reproduce what you're saying. Are you sure you disabled the player you think you disabled? Note that the graphic window will only display 2 players at the same time.
Overlord, ce mai faci? HurtnTime & myself are working on a well packaged BW replay analyser library for all C++ developers who'd like to play with .rep files. That will be available soon. Keep checking the BWchart web page.
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ok, in some replays it works ok in some it doesnt. lets say you load a replay with a lost of actions from both players (like PuSan - DDanGG thats in here on replay archive.) and cant see the clear numbers of one player, so you disable second player and get the full screen of the one you want. Now, some times when you do that, 4 digit numbers are made into a 3 digit number (last digit drops out) but graph stays balanced out just a bit confusing.
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Bine mersi, after reading your comment. What's everyone's opinion on my program? All sugestions are welcome.
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BTW i wrote my program on Delphi, so if you have a description of the decompression algorithm rather than a c++ code it would be easier for me. A pascal/delphi source would be the best. Or maybe you could tell me where did you get it from...
Thx in advance, i hope i'm not asking for too much ^^
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On May 07 2003 23:40 jca wrote: NoNameLoser, I can't reproduce what you're saying. Are you sure you disabled the player you think you disabled? Note that the graphic window will only display 2 players at the same time.
Overlord, ce mai faci? HurtnTime & myself are working on a well packaged BW replay analyser library for all C++ developers who'd like to play with .rep files. That will be available soon. Keep checking the BWchart web page.
Will it be a COM+ component? I used to play around with C++ a looong time ago (8+ years), but if it's COM it can be used from C# or whatever.
Mensrea, doesn't it deserve a special NO-PRIZE award?
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Overlord, you can call .DLL from Delphi? I'm going to do a standard C function export and a C++ wrapper classes. Therefore, from Delphi you can just call the C functions exported from the .DLL.
It will work.
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Could someone link me to the new version of BWChart that doesn't use SuperView?
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Yeah GOGOGO BW Chart Let's show blizzard how real programmers work ! xDDDDDD
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@jca u done a good job & start discussions in every country ! But one question i got : How do u get decompress reps & how long it took u I am programming websites in php for my and other clans.... I got an good repuploadscript, but it would be better if it check the time,the players and more it self.... but i only could check if it is an replay or not do u think u could help me out, or just give me a starting idea.... my email : Raptor@MagicDesigner.de my HP : www.MagicDesigner.de
Dont check my english, its terrible i know, but the last time i used it was in shool 12 years ago ............ puhhhhhhhhh i got it
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If you could have BWrepManager let the user give a little "description" for any of his replays, and have that description linked to the replay file whenever we look at it in your program, that'd be really cool.
Because the limited space we get with the title of the replay isn't usually enough.
Finding a way to play the replays FROM the program itself sounds like it might be very difficult, but that'd be really really neat as well.
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On May 08 2003 17:38 Telemako]JLS[ wrote: Yeah GOGOGO BW Chart Let's show blizzard how real programmers work ! xDDDDDD
wtf
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BWChart version 1.00T
is out of the oven. I added a little replay browser. Right now it's pretty basic and just meant to compute average values over multiple games. I'm sure you'll love automatic average APM on multiple games I'll add more stuff later (things like what Winter is talking about above).
By the way, if you start the browser on a directory containing (including sub-directories) tons of replays (like thousands), the first time you click the "refresh" button, it will take some time to process everything (took 45s for 2000 files on my pc). But that is only the first time.
Have fun
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your a genious
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[MDS]Raptor, as HurtnTime pointed out a few posts above, there will soon be a dll available that encapsulates all the replay parsing stuff so everyone can write its own BWchart or anything else. It will be a dll, with C/C++ interface. I don't know if PHP can call dlls, but if not, you can still write a little tool that uses our dll for creating your replay database in the format you want.
Also, the latest BWchart has a replay browser that loads all the replays in a tree of directories. The results are written into a text file, next to the executable. You could also use that.
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Would it be possible to take a replay and extract the map data and turn it into a scx.
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Suggestions: .- As all we know, its impossible to run a rep directly from the program, so It must able the user to send the rep to the main replay directory (for example) to easily found and view it with BW. .- Possibility to add comments to the rep, and a Search Engine to find them faster (searching on comments, players, races, maps, and other categories.) .- Show at "real time" the actions of a player. I mean, instead of going down with the scroll on the actions list, the program shoul show the actions of an specific player (or two), as they are being taking place. It would be nice to see what both players are doing at the same time of the rep. .- And other friky things that would be posted here by tons of frikies like us xDDDDDDDDDD
Well, this are only a couple of ideas but, If you do it, it would be great GJ, and continue with it
HF Tele
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Another suggestion, register .rep files to be opened with bwchart. That way you can open them while browsing your replay folders with explorer.
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i couldn't d/l from the second link either clicked for like 20 times so i just d/l the first one..had to d/l winace..
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jca your program's version T crashes on my comp when i try to add a directory. Anyone else having that problem?
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Version T Bugs @ Win98
-Loading a rep, and then another one crashes the program. -Refreshing dirs makes the txt file with the info, but reloading the program it does not show the reps, and clicking on refresh crashes the program.
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Just fixed the replay browser bug under Windows 98. The system didn't like Korean characters in the map names and player names. Version 1.00U has the fix.
Telemako, I don't get that bug where loading multiple replays in a row crashes the program. Any other hint?
Thx for reporting the bugs.
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I wonder if anyone looked at my program...
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wow, jca is so efficient...
overlord: i tried ur program out, but.. http://www.geocities.com/duke_n1984/ReplayOrganizer.html is this a program similar to urs? cuz really..it's not as useful as i thought it would..when u already have 100+ replays in ur drive, it's a pain to open them one by one and put down info.
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Thanks for trying it, and of course you are right. This is why i have to wait until jca finishes that DLL, so my program will read the info automatically from the files. I'll make a post there when all these are done.
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jca I'm very interested in help you with beta testing and other stuff so add me msn or something telemak0@hotmail.com (look that its a zero at the end)
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On May 08 2003 20:23 Amnesty wrote: Would it be possible to take a replay and extract the map data and turn it into a scx.
Of course, I already did it ^^ Use SuperView. It leaves you UNCOMPRESSED map and replay-actions files somewhere on your HDD.In my case it's the C:\ Then get a random map from your maps folder in the Starcraft folder.Open it with MpqEditor. It has 2 files inside.the top one, name unk000XXX or something like that, is the actual map info.Right click it and replace it with the extracted MAP file in your C:\ folder(assuming Superview does the same on your machine) save the new MPQ archive, and there you go, this will be the map from the replay ^^ I'm not good at this, at all, but spent an afternoon playing with it, and it just happened ^^ have fun.
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Man, I love a trillion monkeys. Every now and then 1 does something that all the others thought was difficult/impossible. Of course all the other ones did not tell the first one that what he did was impossible, so he just did it.
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OMG!! Version 1.00U is amazing, superview is not needed anymore, and it has its own replay browser which shows player names, map and APM without even loading the replay!!
This is an awesome job, jca I love you!
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It crashes when trying to add some replays on WIN98. jca i already sent you 2 replays that crashes your program, did u recieve them?
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Overlord, I tried your replays just now, and couldnt get bwchart to crash. I don't really know what I can do to solve your problem. Does it crash on other replays?
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Yes, and i see no sense why. Sending you the replay.
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The Excellent program even in Russia she popular. But "Bags"-"Errors" in her plenty of.
Forgive for my language I through translator translated since I from Russia.
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BWChart only crashed one time on my computer, and that was when i tried to refresh a folder with a corrupt replay file in it. (SC crashed when i tried to save that rep, so it became corrupted)
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jca, I tried BWchart version 1.00v under win98 and I've found a lot of problems (maybe BUGS) with UNIT DISTRIBUTION.
If you train (or queue) any unit and then cancel it the program counts it as if you have made a unit. I mean if you train/cancel/train/cancel....units, the program will think you have made a lot of units. Even if you don't cancel the units and press many times the train key and if you don't have enough minerals, the program still thinks you have made the unit. I tested it in a lot of reps and it seems that it counts more units than the real number of them you have. Examples (I can give you reps if you want):
In a rep (1.08b) I counted around 29 mutas, the program counted 147 !!! --------------------------------------- In a rep (1.08b) a made 7 drones (without counting the 4 inicial drones), 3 hydras and 1 over (plus the inicial 1), the program counted: drone:20 hydralisk:5 Overlord:2 --------------------------------------- In one rep (again 1.08b)I made no scvs, I just train/cancel/train/train/cancel and so on, the program counted SCV:11 ------------------------ I've also tested it in 1.10 version doing a lot of train/cancel... and after making 0 scvs, the program said I have made 33 scv's.
----------------------------- I take the replay of Boxer@3 vs jinnam@9 (limyh 177APM vs [Gsp]o.O 135 APM) duration: 11:09 (at the beginning the obs 'TheSolo' left the game).
I counted the numer of medics in the game, which were 8 medics, and the program counted 13.
I've also counted the number of drones: around 36 and the program counted 153 !!
I haven't counted the number of mutas, but the program said 50, and I really think Jinnam haven't made more than 15 in all the game.
Hope this help. BTW really GW jca <3
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rail, program does everything you quire in the replay. To filter out the rest you need the BW engine "hint" to analise the whole thing and test where the unit was or not possible to build. Yes its quiete inacurate some times but some times its not, Its just a cool option to have. i find the building thing much more usefull.
P.S. jca the w version also crashes when i load my whole map folder. I have many folders and subfolders there, maybie it couses the problem? If i load each folder separatly- no problem, maybe there a replay somehwere that crushes it.
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Ra1L, you're right about units being over estimated. But as NoNameLoser is pointing, there is no way to figure out which train order really succeeded. The "cancel units" action is not even handled by the program because it doesnt know which unit was cancelled.
NoNameLoser, version 1.01A is bound to arrive soon. Let me know if you still have those crashes with that version. If yes, then it probably means you have a corrupted replay somewhere. Meanwhile, if you could try to pin down which folder or replay is causing this crash, that might help. Thanks.
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thnx for all this work jca this program is the best thing since replays
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psylo, thx for your support
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Russian Federation6 Posts
how about any sources for bwrep.dll ? =)
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I completely agree with psylo.
This oughtta preserve the BW community alot longer ^__^.
GW jca and HurtnTime!
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yup its a corrupted replay, nither bw or chart load it and chart crushes if you try. i guess some option of "cant load, corrupted file" or something would be better then just a crush.
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Hi, I'd like to make a couple of comments about the program.
Bug 1) When the build order is listed, it doesn't span the entire length of the game if the game is long (maybe > 15 minutes?). 2) Don't think it's really a bug...but when the same player's replay data is added twice, the graph is additive. Would it be possible to have the option of treating it seperately? (like Player, Player(1), Player(2) all referring to the same player but each having different graphs). 3) The graphs sometimes look funny when multiplie replay data is added.
Suggestions? 1) Export a .png of the image currently on the screen? 2) Display the race the user used.
But overall, it's great! I don't have to come up with any complicated naming scheme anymore for my replays. Keep up the good work.
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Just a question about the Action Distribution.. There's just a list with actions but at the bottom of the list of 1 player it said: 0x33
I was wondering what the '0x33' was doing in there ^^; the bugged drone thing when trying to build things mutliple times being zerg? (dunno just a thought cuz the player was z :/ )
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plague is still classified as an unknown action. I can send you a replay where I did like 20 plagues or so, it should be easy to identify it using this sample.
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Version 1.01C is out. Changes listed below:
-added units on Build Order chart (as an option) -added missing zerg spells & units (spawn broodlings, infest, plague, infested terran) -APM computation: discarded all events from first 1'20 (but it didn't really change the average APM of most players) -added "refresh at startup" for replay browser -added "akas" for players and maps (with default akas for some famous players & maps) -added "favorites" where you can store your favorite replays with a comment -smoother curve for APM = less meaningless peaks and better overview of game pace -better detection of multiple tech upgrades of same type -added user comments in replay browser -added player races to replay database -replay database and favorites are now saved in "My Documents\bwchart\" folder -changed replay database format to handle files and directories with [ ] in them -added possibility to remove a player's events (right click on player's list, at bottom right) -changed the way events are added when adding a new replay with same player
http://mapage.noos.fr/spyderman/bwchart.htm
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Wow. You're the man. Keep up the great work.
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extremely sexy
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Yeah good stuff jca, just a few adjustments and its quiete a candy. Some suggestions: for easier aka addition of players/maps, especially if they have those ascii characters... i think itd be better if you could also add an aka through the main "replay browser" window because you can see replay name/map/opponent/etc and wont make a mistake by addint a wrong aka. Also is there a way to make bwchart to refresh the added aka instantly without refreshing the whole replay archive..?. Oh and another cool option would be: having "load to bw" button so that bwchart loads bw, you go to say single player and theres a special folder for bwchart like [BWchart replay] or something and when you open it theres the replay that is loaded in bwchart, and after you quit game the folder+replay be automatically deleted. Kind of like the wcg site did last time with replays.
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NoNameLoser, here comes Chrismas time! Try version 1.01E and you'll have all that.
For the new "watch replay" feature, simply select a replay in the replay browser, right click, and choose "watch replay". Just make sure that your BW cd is in there.
BWchart will start it for you, and do all the selections for you. The replay will in start ON ITS OWN.
If that doesnt work, check the new "options" section and try to adjust the various parameters. Those include some delays for bwchart to simulate the typing of the keys, as well as the sequence of keys itself. So if you use a BW with different kbd shortcuts (like if you have a spanish version of BW), you can set the keys there. The default sequence is "SBORO*O":
S = (S)ingle player B = (B)roodwar or Starcraft O = (O)k on the id screen R = load (R)eplay O = (O)k to select the bwchart replay directory * = equals "arrow down" to select the replay itself O = (O)k to start the replay
When you're done with watching the replay, you should either quit BW, or go back to the very first screen. Otherwise, the key sequence will not work if you try to watch another replay.
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Just default shortcut for Broodwar (eng ver.) is (E)xpansion. best stuff ever.
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great work
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You mean your key sequence is "SEORO*O" ? Arff, must be my install which is a mix of french and english version. I'll fix that cause most players will have the english version i suppose. Thx.
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OOh just realised something. I got many replays that are 1.09 and if i want to watch them another .exe should be run... double selection (watch with bw 1.10/1.09) is a must. Id advise allowing users to select the propper .exe for each but i bet you know better.
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forgot about that blizzard joke of 1.10/1.09 incompatibility, will fix that too, re-thx.
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I love you JCA
[edit] and no, i'm not homosexual [/edit]
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A little suggestion again, not that it matters much but the first step in loading replay, loading bw itself, is very unstable and may take from 2sec to 10sec (i guess the process of copying replay/creating folder, etc takes some time) and sometimes the "auto" load doesnt work or if you set it high, gotta wait long before it starts using hotkeys. If there is a way to check when bw starts (other then just timing) itd be great. And If you decide to do that you might make the other hotkeys use different timing as well (the first 2 S+E can have almost 0 "cooldown", next O can be like a 1000, R should be like 1300-1400, O like a 1000, and *+O also about 0, or just leave it to users to define the timing between each letter.)
Not that i care much about that, 2 years i used to press hotkeys for loading replays and it wouldnt matter much now. But i bet the war3 junkies would flood you to make something similar for them
[edit] also lil bugs: 1). if you quit the game while replay is playing bwchart wouldnt load other replays but that one; 2). after you quit game (watching rep) the "replay browser" window behaves funny and you have to click on other tap (like "favorites") and then back to "replay browser" to get it proper again.
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ya~~! pls make something like this for war3
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On May 18 2003 04:10 NoNameLoser wrote: [edit] also lil bugs: 1). if you quit the game while replay is playing bwchart wouldnt load other replays but that one; 2). after you quit game (watching rep) the "replay browser" window behaves funny and you have to click on other tap (like "favorites") and then back to "replay browser" to get it proper again.
I don't understand your bug (1). You mean, you don't actually stop the replay and leave BW with Alt+TAB ? For (2) I know about it, it's a painting bug in the Windows list control. Don't really know how to work around it.
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NoNameLoser, could you please try this version :
http://mapage.noos.fr/spyderman/bwchart101f.exe
It has options to start 2 versions of BW (1.09/1.10). Also I added a column in the replay browser to display BW engine version. I'm not sure about the meaning of the values, so I need your help on that. What I assumed for the number shown in that column is:
BW1d = BW 1.9 replay BW1e = BW 1.10 replay
I have a few BW1b replays as well, but dont know which version it is.
Because I added the engine version info, your replay database file will need to be refreshed completely. Thx in advance.
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Ok, from what i got all versions of BWxx are for 1.09 except for BW1e - -which is a mix of 1.09 and 1.10 and you cant tell whether itll get corrupted or not (i guess blizzard forgot to update the replay version in their last patch).
As for the bug: if you quit game (alt+x or alt+f4) during the loaded replay, bwchart gets confusedd? (i guess the replay didnt get deleted or something) and whatever replay you try to load next will always be the one you quit on, unless you delete it manualy.
P.S. "not getting posted" bug becomes more frequent on this board (at least to me) so i know copy any long posts i make.
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Hey peeps, I'm new around here.
I've been having the same problem with bwchart since the replay browser was first added. Everytime I refresh, it performs an illegal operation after scanning a few replays and crashes - usually no new ones are added and over 20+ replays are missing in the browser due to it never being able to fully refresh. Seeing as though nobody else is having this problem, it's making me feel like the odd ball out. Any help, anyone?
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ihave it from time to time... my bet is, somewhere there you got a corrupted replay (like if you try to load it with bw you get "replay is corrupted". There might be other reason but i didnt look much at that because ther replay loading bar comes to almost very end and 99.9% of my replays are loaded next time i run bw chart.
jca, my further exeriments show that the "replay version" is auto changable and it depends on the year+month when the replay was saved. My bet is that since 1.08 every 6 month the replay version is being changed... like BW1a, BW1b, BW1c, BW1d or whatever order they put in there. I do not know what the hell BW05 and such are but the "replay" version doesnt depend on game version.
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On May 18 2003 04:35 mindspike wrote: ya~~! pls make something like this for war3
You can shove your wc3 where the sun don't shine. >=(
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The comments don't work properly. They get edited to the Engine, and all to the top replay.
[EDIT :: they do work, you just have to refresh first ]
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Ok, found my last corrupted replay... so if you get bwchart illegal operation, its definatelly corrupted replay. Just try adding each folder separetely and see which one gets corrupted, then load bw and find the replay--> kill it. If your folders seem to have no corrupted replays, check the map folder itself.
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while browsing reps i found that i have quiete a few copies of same games... "delete option" is thnx, just make sure you can return replay if deleted a wrong one.
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Russian Federation6 Posts
Another time about bwrep.dll
Will you make it with COM(+) interface? plzplzplz =)
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Ok, is it just me, or is anyone else getting wrong results from the latest bwchart? or was there some change made? I had 3070 actions, over the course of a game that was 16:47. Thats roughly 182 APM, which it was shown as being on 1.00S. On 1.01F, however, it comes up as 154 APM... and furthermore, the graphs differ.
Anyone else encounter this?
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changes for 1.01C : "-smoother curve for APM = less meaningless peaks and better overview of game pace -APM computation: discarded all events from first 1'20 (but it didn't really change the average APM of most players)"
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jca, great work man. Just a few thigs...
The build order screen tends to to show extra buildings. I was wondering if we could filter out the "useless" actions.
Oh, and this thing helps alot to detect hack ^^.
Thanks a million and keep up the good work.
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On May 19 2003 21:21 utopia_us wrote:
The build order screen tends to to show extra buildings. I was wondering if we could filter out the "useless" actions.
I'm working on it but really, there aren't so many ways to detect the useless "build" actions. I think what I'm gonna do, just for the beginning of the game, like first 2 minutes, is estimate what is the maximum of mineral/gaz you can get at any one time, and then discard all build actions that would get over that limit. I will also check the building coordinates to make sure I discard multiple build actions at the same location. Of course that can only work in the very beginning of the game because afterwards, building might simply get destroyed and rebuilt over. Tricky, tricky...
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jca, If you're going to discard the first 1:20, then discard those actions all-together, instead of reporting all actions, total.
I really do enjoy the program, although I have terrible APM (: Favorite feature is the browser... helps me stay organized.
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I dont see any point of getting the 1'20 back. There isnt much to do in the period and most of the clicks are useless. Many "avarage" players 've seen first person vods and think that clicking all the stuff during first minutes is gosu, etc. and think their apm is good. The problem is that progamers do have insane apm as game goes on while usual "avarage" player's doesnt. So if you have lesser apm in new version it just tells you where to improve it.
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...I didn't ask for the first 1:20 back. I just ask that if those actions are discarded from the APM, that they should be discarded from the total actions in the game count.
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Oh my bad, i thought you were making drama like " if 1:20 is out, then take out the whole apm option"... But who looks at total action count anyway? It depends on game length and wouydnt change much...
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i was wondering if there could be a search engine to search for all the reps of a particular player...
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If i want to Know what he is clicking on in the action menu (ex. action:select parameters:3591)how do i find out what s the 3591 means?
Do diffrent races and diffrent players have ceratin numbers on their units and buildings i mean like terr have 36xx and zerg have 52xx so i can check evrytime he clicks on one of my units/buildings???
i have this reapley that is 100% hack (i know because it s my friend that is hacking) but i cant figure out how to see if they are hacking or not
i have seen many posters where people are writing with caps down BWCHART CATCHES HACKERS but i cant se how they can see if anyone is hacking
and thx for a great program
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Gettaway, those numbers you're talking about are the objects ids. Those id start at a certain value in the beginning of the game, and then every time a unit or building is created, the "next id" value is decremented by one and assigned to the new object, whatever player or race it is. So there's no accurate way to figure out what object corresponds to an id. For buildings though, you can pretty much tell from what units come out of it, because to train any unit, you must select the building first (with select or hotkey). Of course, in the early phase of the game, you can also tell which ids are the scv/probes/drones and CC/nexus/hatchery, but that's about it.
Regarding the "anti map hack" assumptions, it's basically a "hope" that many gamers have but BWChart is really not capable of doing anything in that matter, and never claimed it was. Sorry
I'd still be interested to get that replay where your friend is cheating (if you are 100% sure he was). Could you please email it to bwchart@noos.fr ? Thx.
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BWChart crashes when I do press "Refresh" in the replay browser... I'm using Windows 2000 and BWChart 1.01F. It doesn't seem to load all my replays either... What should I do?
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You probably have a corrupted replay somewhere. Try to refresh your replay directories one by one to pin down the corrupted replay.
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jca, could you please fix the damn bug that makes bwchart not to load a proper replay. I dont really care about version, bwchart loads right .exe for old reps and if its still wrong, I can start my own bw and find out for that matter + most releasers state their version, but the bug is really bugging me.
Im not sure what exactly causes it... sometimes i encounter it when bwchart loads the replay but my bw starts late and the "hotkey" thing isnt working, then after viewing the rep, i close bw, try to load another one and it loads the same rep that i just saw over and over unitll i delete it. Maybe some kind of check that replay was deleted and make sure it is if it wasnt would do...
Thnx.
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I have comments:
First of all, I have ~2500 replays in bwchart folder - very cool statistics, but how do I add replays withour refreshing? It takes like a minute. If it's possible to do it easier, it would make the program better.
Also what is, if there is any, the meaning of the height of the columns on which the names of buildings sit in the build order graph?
Finally, I have only noticed it once SO FAR, but when analyzing one 20 minute game I noticed that the build order goes only as far as 6:20. No, I didn't use zoom, it's not an option in build order, but actually I think it should be to get more precise time of the structures being contructed.
Thanks for the great software, by the way.
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Yeah i know that too eug but its easy to come up with solution: since you use bwchart for replays you dont need any folder system much, unless you really want to. 1). Just make an empty folder and save reps there, it wont take any time when you refresh it. 2). Once you got enought reps there move them to some other folder with tons of other reps. Reapeat step 1+2.
As for build order... i dont consider anything beyound first few minutes an order since after scouting its changed everytime respectfully to opponent's. Yeah its ok to have an option of viewing the whole game' buildings but why would you do that when you can watch the rep?
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Suppose so, but I thought it was a bug.
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For the hack comment:
Suppose I'm protoss and the hacker is terran. I have built my cybernetics and am now warping in something new. What is it? Could be a citadel or maybe a robotics facility, or maybe I'm just making a pylon. The hacker will probably want to know to prepare a counter.
When the hacker clicks the structure, it's registered as a "select" action and I believe the select action provides coordinates on the map.
Seeing how the buildings are not selectable under the fog of war, you surely can find out if your opponent clicked your buildings without scouting if you know how the coords work.
Maybe this thought can contribute to the making of a "hack detector"?
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MPXMX, there arent any "coordinates" next to a "select" order, only a unit id.
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So...it's not possible to see the Build Order after the first 6-7 minutes? I'd be interested in scrolling across and seeing more of it. It kind of what be the closest thing to "watching" a replay when I'm at a computer (work) where I can't load BW.
Oh, and thanks jca for all the work. It really is rather cool.
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About the Build Order: the idea of the build order window is to show what is known as the "build order" (duh). Which is "the sequence of buildings/upgrades/units the player did before his first attack". I'm quoting Nazgul here. That's why it stops around 6 or 7 minutes.
NoNameLoser, I think I fixed your problem with the "watch replay" feature.
MPXMX, I added the feature you were asking for to add a replay into the database without refreshing it.
4.Aiur, you should check version 1.01G out, you can now "animate" the replay and see what's going on on the minimap (yes, the minimap). That's probably the closest BWChart can get to a real replay. Beware though, it's heavy on processor usage
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Polish Brood War service has a special scrypt, which tells you if there was maphack or there wasn't. I don't know if it uses BWchart and then chooses "wrong" actions, which shouldn't have been done but with this you can be 100% sure of mh or not mh. Right now people don't have acces to this program/script only admins of Netwars. What is sure is that you need to decode replay (like bwchart, superView ?) and then use this script.
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I think they don't want to publicise this to avoid making programs which hide those "wrong" actions.
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damn, jca u are one sexy beast
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jca can you post a link to G version of BWchart? Thanx. ; ]
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Damn, jca...you are just churning out these upgrades.
Get another hobby.
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go work for blizz
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*throws himself on his knees before jca*
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jca I was wondering if I could talk to you about some stuff.
If it's not to much trouble, my AIM is AmUtoPia. ^^ thanks a million and keep up the amazing work.
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OMFG I just saw the animate feature!!!
jca I would like to have your children.
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Ya, its a nice feature indeed. Very nice jca!!!
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HurtnTime you deserve a big hug also ^^.
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great updates! I have been dreaming for a while to have something like your mini map animation feature, except I wished for replay of what was actually happenenning on the minimap of an observer who has both player's vision, which could run independently from broodwar.
But this is nice
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gonna be very useful tool, thanks
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I think I've found a new bug. I was watching a few of Slayer's replays and keeping up with his actions using BWchart. I found that the timeline in BWchart is slower than what I actually saw in the replay (I paused the replay and alt-tabed between the two programs.)
For instance, Boxer stimmed his marines, but that action didn't show up on the timeline for a whole 10 seconds after he did it. I thought that I might have just missed him stim a different group of marines, but the other actions in the vicinity (Boxer was unloading a dropship around the same time) indicate that this is not the case.
BTW, this program rules the earth and the sea. I haven't lost this much sleep willingly since finals.
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titatium, the time indication in second is not very accurate because we don't know the exact meaning of the tick values in the replay. In fact, I'm not even sure the ticks have a direct ratio with time. It could depend on the machine where the replay was recorded. I could try to figure that out but just thought it didnt matter that much.
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yup the tics dont depend ont time. and something else i found: if the computer is out of sync your replay will be too. Just played this guy in wgt and rep version is BW1d... and you you set your clock ahead like 2008 the replay will be BW08.
Jca, could you tell me how BWchart creates replay and how it deletes it. Like before BW loads or after you quit it(?)... Also if the "time to wait after BWstarts" has anything to do with replay creation/deletion. Thnx.
P.S. the minimap thingy just blowed my mind. I wonder if letting bwchart extract map of replay will be a good option or it will let people to abuse stuff...
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NoNameLoser, the replay that is copied when you select "watch replay" is never deleted. I just keep overwriting it. And it is created after BW has started. The "time to wait after BWstarts" is the time BWChart will wait for the BW window to open, then the rep is copied (even if BW window is still not open)
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No, the replay ticks must correspond to some time. SC is basically a simulator when it does reps. If the rep does not store a specific time something was built, then SC cannot replay that action at the right time.
Only issue is maybe on the speed of the game changing these values or some other internal mechanism we're unaware of.
To test the time: make a sp game vs 1 pc, use power overwhelming and have your probes destroy his. Leave the PC cc and then the game for an hour or so. Then do a specific action, e.g. build 1 gateway you can check up on in the rep. Finish up and save the rep...
Then simply match the time index on the rep to the real time time you built the gateway. This should give an accurate enough value for anything up to the time you played the game for.
If you want I'll do it and post the results, for both standard sp speed (fast i think) and switching to fastest asap. Should give an accurate idea of what's going on.
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On May 18 2003 17:58 NoNameLoser wrote:
jca, my further exeriments show that the "replay version" is auto changable and it depends on the year+month when the replay was saved.
Thanks for your help NoNameLoser. You gave me a good hint here and I finally found what the field was in the header. It's actually the exact time/date when the game took place. That information was unknown in Superview too. We're making progress :-)
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New version seems to have trouble with loading large amount of replays (1000+) and crashes if i try. I checked for corrupted reps and im clean... Delete option didnt show up (:. Is the replay engine final or is it same as before (can make mistakes)? Rep date is cool.
Perhaps the last idea i have for this thingy: make your screen follow players actions while watching rep in bw......
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NoNameLoser, I have tested with more than 3000 replays and it worked fine. Could you please try it again with this version:
http://mapage.noos.fr/bwchart/bwchart-j.exe
First delete /my documents/bwchart/replays.txt, then start this version and do a refresh. After it crashed, start it again, and it will tell you which replay is crashing. Email that to me and I'll see what is wrong.
thx
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Suggestion on new feature:
percentages on 10 most used commands: like
Player 1:
30% hotkey 27% move 25% select etc etc etc...
I'd enjoy that feature so if you plan to update, include this plz :D
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Firstly, you're doing a fucking gj with making this program, props @ ya br0
Now for the nagging part: The "Watch replay in BW"-option doesn't work for people who use other files to start bw other than 'starcraft.exe'. (I.e.: I use a batchfile which copies the required files for either 1.09 or 1.10 version to the starcraftpath, after which it executes the according no-cd loader.) It guess it would be solved if you could set the startup file for broodwar rather than install path. (Dunno if the .bat file interferes with your programmed menu-selection though...)
I also think it would be nice to make the "Watch replay in BW"-feature accessible in the statistics-tab with an extra button or something
And MPXMX suggestion is cool
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does bwchart really have to crash every time it comes across a corrupt rep? can't it just skip over it and add a little note in a viewable errors log, maybe even view it from the program with the option to rename, delete, or repair the corrupt files (unlikely they can be repaired, but maybe in the future minor things might be possible)?
could bwchart show average specific actions per minute in the types of actions chart? at the right of each bar it could show the average, say, move commands per minute next to the moves bar, so you could compare command averages between games.
could bwchart come up with a way to estimate fog of war and then determine if a player clicks on something they can't see? this might help catch some sloppy hackers in older replays at least. the fog of war estimation could be used to improve the animation too, maybe even having a different color fog for each player and having the option of showing/hiding each fog and they could blend with eachother somehow.
could bwchart save data so i don't have to refresh, edit the akas each time i start it? maybe use an ini file? if it already does this then it's messing up on mine. maybe i have to delete that txt file. but of course eventually this should all be done by the program so it works fine without strange interventions right?
could you detect cancelled buildings? and show cancellations in the build order chart? and let the build order chart show the whole game (scrollable, scalable), so someone could look for responses? and a similar thing with units being built, cancelled. this could help hint at hackers too.
another thing, it seems like the screen doesn't refresh itself at the right times, i often have to select or minimize or tab etc. to get everything shown on the screen right, i'm sure others have noticed this too if they're switching to other programs.
and here's a feature i really could use a lot: be able to shift+select multiple replays from the browser, right click, and say "move to folder", creating the folder if it doesn't exist, being able to type in a path, or browse (previous paths saved and you can press up to go between them like Start->Run, something like this could be done for the simple "open replay" too). this would save me tons of time and help me organize my mess
AND the "watch replay" stuff needs to be fixed. i have my BW cd in. i say to watch a SC replay in BW 1.10. but it tries to go into SC. i SAID BW, NOT SC. WATCH THE SC REP IN BW pls That way I don't have to change my CD. I can choose SC if I want. But I chose BW so please do it BW.
and how about an option to show two player's apm charts on top of eachother with the same scale, each in different colors?
and how about a new forum for bwchart and similar programs and discussing apm in general? having this all in one thread seems hella silly d00d
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can you make a search engine to search for all the replays with particular player?
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Nemesis, that feature is in the new version J I think
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ok i tried deleting that file etc. it still only says i have 251 replays every time i start the program and i have to refresh to get the full 8073. 'very annoying since this takes a while on my computer.
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On May 26 2003 00:13 STIMMY D OKMG FISH wrote: does bwchart really have to crash every time it comes across a corrupt rep? can't it just skip over it and add a little note in a viewable errors log, maybe even view it from the program with the option to rename, delete, or repair the corrupt files (unlikely they can be repaired, but maybe in the future minor things might be possible)?
What a brilliant idea. Never thought about it. Just one thing though: how do you know a replay is corrupted before loading it and crashing? There is no 'this replay is corrupted' byte in the header you know I keep asking people to email me corruted replays so i can at least try them and see how it crashes, but i received none.
could bwchart show average specific actions per minute in the types of actions chart? at the right of each bar it could show the average, say, move commands per minute next to the moves bar, so you could compare command averages between games.
Yes it could. I'll put it in the 'to do' list next to MPXMPX sugg.
could bwchart come up with a way to estimate fog of war and then determine if a player clicks on something they can't see?
No it can't. It would be totally not accurate, so totally useless.
could bwchart save data so i don't have to refresh, edit the akas each time i start it? maybe use an ini file? if it already does this then it's messing up on mine. maybe i have to delete that txt file. but of course eventually this should all be done by the program so it works fine without strange interventions right?
Everything is saved in \my documents\bwchart. And those files are disguised .ini files. I don't know why is doesnt work on your machine. If you want it to work, you need to help me figure out what I must fix.
could you detect cancelled buildings? and show cancellations in the build order chart?
No cause i don't know which building is cancelled.
and let the build order chart show the whole game (scrollable, scalable), so someone could look for responses? and a similar thing with units being built, cancelled. this could help hint at hackers too.
Already answered that question in this thread. See also FAQ on web site.
another thing, it seems like the screen doesn't refresh itself at the right times, i often have to select or minimize or tab etc. to get everything shown on the screen right, i'm sure others have noticed this too if they're switching to other programs.
I noticed it too. It's pb with the Windows list controls that don't repaint themselves when they should. Need to find some workaround.
and here's a feature i really could use a lot: be able to shift+select multiple replays from the browser, right click, and say "move to folder", creating the folder if it doesn't exist, being able to type in a path, or browse (previous paths saved and you can press up to go between them like Start->Run, something like this could be done for the simple "open replay" too). this would save me tons of time and help me organize my mess I'll think about it. I understand it might save you a lot of time, but it will cost me a lot to write, so, we'll see.
AND the "watch replay" stuff needs to be fixed. i have my BW cd in. i say to watch a SC replay in BW 1.10. but it tries to go into SC. i SAID BW, NOT SC. WATCH THE SC REP IN BW pls That way I don't have to change my CD. I can choose SC if I want. But I chose BW so please do it BW. Sorry about that. I fixed it on the version that's on the web site right now.
and how about an option to show two player's apm charts on top of eachother with the same scale, each in different colors?
Hummm...have you ever tried checking the 'all players' option box just below the Chart type list?
and how about a new forum for bwchart and similar programs and discussing apm in general? having this all in one thread seems hella silly d00d
Thx for the feedback
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On May 26 2003 05:00 MPXMX wrote: Nemesis, that feature is in the new version J I think
the thing is the latest search filter only searches for the replays that has the player as top 2 apm..and i have a lot of 2v2 replays...
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It isnt possible to see what the game speed is set to from replays right? It's safe for me to play my games on normal speed and then post the replays and claim that i've got the fastest hands on earth?
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jca, would it be possible to do a raw dump of the current table displayed, maybe into excel? i'd like to run some statistical programs on the data. thanks.
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is it just me or does the latest version of bwchart still can only player filter the top two apm players of a replay?
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JCA, serious request. Let's make a hack which show in bw, units selection by players. I don't see a reason why this cant be done. But im affraid I dont have the knowledge yet to do that.
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one request more. When in the replay browser, could you make a player filter. It would be a list a player you want to see and one list of player you dont want to see. Or maybe make a checkbox "show only player with a known aka" what do you think guys about such a feature.. I would also like to be able to compare my average chart with one game chart, it would be so cool, to see what action chart and compare it with average "What action" chart
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Hi jca!
Excellent idea, good progam.
If you are interested, I made some tests with the TimeTick Ratio. The precise value is imho 23,80. Maybe you have to change it WC3, too.( If it uses the same technology.)
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On May 29 2003 06:14 sanqi21 wrote: jca, would it be possible to do a raw dump of the current table displayed, maybe into excel? i'd like to run some statistical programs on the data. thanks.
jca, I noticed you are working on BWChart again, so here is my wish list:
1 - The feature in the post I quoted. Export to CSV, tab-delimited or any other structured text format the table being displayed. In this case, probably put players and their races in different columns (i.e Nazgul,P,Blackman,Z instead of Nazgul(P), Blackman(Z) ).
2- Is there any way (I guess the answer is no) to know if the player randomed?
3- [Minor Bug]. In the build order window, you can scroll horizontally more than the window width, and, in that case, the vertical line doesn't get refreshed (it leaves its clones on the right margin).
BTW, is there an official bug database and/or wish list?
, Pablo
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