The similarminds and humanmetrics tests gave me INTJ results but I understand why internet tests can be inaccurate. One set of my results was pretty balanced overall and the other had more schewed results.
Personally, I think it's far more interesting discussing your experiences than simply claiming a particular 'type' because some tests ascribed it to you. I imagine people who've been ascribed the INTJ personality type differ from me in a variety of ways (e.g. our reasons for approaching, or not approaching, various social interactions and philosophical vs scientific minds) but such nuances aren't brought out in simply stating a four letter acronym.
On December 22 2012 14:30 Whitewing wrote: Looks like I'm an INTJ. Hardly anyone in my life (apart from my father) actually understands me particularly well.
I can definitely relate to this but I've never seen it as a bad thing. My relationship with my father is quite unique and I've never really been concerned with people understanding me or not.
At the OP: Your post is well written and compiled but there is actually nobody named as 'Buddha'. Guatama was the man and 'The Buddha' is a title. The 'person' people generally call 'Buddha' should actually be named 'The Buddha'. Source: I'm a student of Indian philosophy.
On December 22 2012 07:37 AUGcodon wrote: Listen, I get what you are saying barrin. It's about understanding what is your strengths and what is your weaknesses. I hope I don't misrepresent your argument. What I and some other people want to point out that social skills can be improved and that social skills is a vital survival skill for most people. Unless you are a genius, good interpersonal skills is absolutely required. I imagine even if you are an engineer, once you get to the managerial position your interpersonal skills will become more and more important.
I absolutely agree. I'm just saying that identifying yourself as an introvert does not necessarily hinder your ability to do this. I hope other people make sure to keep this in mind.
But frankly it is characteristic of INTJ's not to have this problem, at least if they can get over the bullshit society has strewn out. We simply tend to be good at doing anything we try to be good at, and being introverted doesn't mean that we wont try to improve our social skills (we are very ambitious and understand that social skills can help us attain our goals). We tend to be sacrificing of ourselves so it's just par for the course for INTJ's. But yes I do hope non-INTJ's be very careful about this.
This brings me to my next point, you are right that you have to right to walk away from people that annoy you. The problems is that life is not that simple. your co-workers could be the annoying ones and you are not in a position to really walk away. You need to relate to them up to a point where they don't feel discomforted by talking to you. Even if you believe the other party said something trite and pointless, you shouldn't act dismissive. This is a kind of social skill that does not come easily to everyone. But the point is that this is a skill that can be practiced. What I am afraid is that in this discussion, people become too focused on being "proud" of introverted. The fact they come to peace with being introverted does not give them an excuse to not pick up social skills.
I agree. I hope now that they are at peace with their introversion they can approach improving their social skills in a more rational manner.
On December 22 2012 09:23 Deleuze wrote: Hmm, I'm not so sure about these personality tests, are they aimed at non-Neurotypicals? I'm currently undergoing diagnosis for Autism and have been warned against these kinds of test - from reading them briefly it is fairly clear what the 'correct' answers are in order for you to obtain the personality trait that supports your self image.
This seems true to me.
I find people attempting to eulogize and appropriate historical figures into their personality type deeply egotistical. I don't know why people are draw to this kind of reinforcement in this way.
If this works for you that's great of course, I'm heavily introverted in my approach to life, but I don't need a test to tell me this nor a psychological theory to enable me to cope with my personality.
Sorry, Xmas is here and I'm feeling cynical.
No, but a lot of introverts feel very alone and unable to connect with anyone... this thread is supposed to show them that there are a lot of other people out there who feel the same way.
I've been thinking about my own introversion for a long time and I have come to the conclusion that people cannot be divided into introvert and extrovert. There are very few people that I have met in my life that can be considered extroverted, at least the way that this thread describes them. I have met maybe 2-3 people that genuinely cannot handle their own thoughts and have to be around people all the time. Most people seem to be somewhere in the middle. I used to think I was severely introverted, but then I realized that I am not anxious at all about social gatherings/talking to people or whatever. But I do prefer to be alone, or with my closest friends. I honestly don't see any reason to put a label on that. This whole putting introverts on a pedestal seems to be a product of the fact that a LOT of people have suddenly become nerds/gamers and thus haven't practiced their socials skills as much as other people.
The fact that people like outgoing or "extroverted" people is because they often make others feel good about themselves. Everyone needs human contact, even the so called introverts This isn't a problem with society, it's just the way human beings work.
On December 22 2012 09:23 Deleuze wrote: Hmm, I'm not so sure about these personality tests, are they aimed at non-Neurotypicals? I'm currently undergoing diagnosis for Autism and have been warned against these kinds of test - from reading them briefly it is fairly clear what the 'correct' answers are in order for you to obtain the personality trait that supports your self image.
I find people attempting to eulogize and appropriate historical figures into their personality type deeply egotistical. I don't know why people are draw to this kind of reinforcement in this way.
If this works for you that's great of course, I'm heavily introverted in my approach to life, but I don't need a test to tell me this nor a psychological theory to enable me to cope with my personality.
Sorry, Xmas is here and I'm feeling cynical.
No, but a lot of introverts feel very alone and unable to connect with anyone... this thread is supposed to show them that there are a lot of other people out there who feel the same way.
You could exchange the word introverts with gamers or nerds. Because that is basically what we're talking about here.
On December 23 2012 00:24 Animzor wrote: I've been thinking about my own introversion for a long time and I have come to the conclusion that people cannot be divided into introvert and extrovert. There are very few people that I have met in my life that can be considered extroverted, at least the way that this thread describes them. I have met maybe 2-3 people that genuinely cannot handle their own thoughts and have to be around people all the time. Most people seem to be somewhere in the middle. I used to think I was severely introverted, but then I realized that I am not anxious at all about social gatherings/talking to people or whatever. But I do prefer to be alone, or with my closest friends. I honestly don't see any reason to put a label on that. This whole putting introverts on a pedestal seems to be a product of the fact that a LOT of people have suddenly become nerds/gamers and thus haven't practiced their socials skills as much as other people.
The fact that people like outgoing or "extroverted" people is because they often make others feel good about themselves. Everyone needs human contact, even the so called introverts This isn't a problem with society, it's just the way human beings work.
Everyone is introverted AND extroverted to some degree. Most people are more extroverted than introverted, while there are a decent amount of people who are more introverted than extroverted.
On December 22 2012 11:47 glabius wrote: This thread is kind of annoying. I subscribe to the Jungian theory and I understand that there are extroverts as well as introverts but the first post just reeks of snobbishness or arrogance. OP is bolstering the qualities of introverts by putting down extroverts as talking to much or not saying anything of value. I just don't understand.. do introverts really get that much hate because they don't like going out as much or don't talk as much in social settings.
Myth #1 – Introverts don’t like to talk. This is not true. Introverts just don’t talk unless they have something to say. They hate small talk. Get an introvert talking about something they are interested in, and they won’t shut up for days. They hate small talk, as in small talk is sooo unimportant and completely shallow. Yes, it kind of is, but its just sometimes how people interact with each other when they don't know each other too well. THIS IS HOW YOU MEET PEOPLE AND MAYBE MAKE FRIENDS. Holy shit, I hate small talk too, and I'm extroverted, I just do it because this is how people interact. I think what a more justified way to say this would be something like: Introverts in general tend not to socialize in a small talk format as much as extroverts, bam. Now you dispell the myth, but without the condescending attitude.
Myth #2 – Introverts are shy. Shyness has nothing to do with being an Introvert. Introverts are not necessarily afraid of people. What they need is a reason to interact. They don’t interact for the sake of interacting. If you want to talk to an Introvert, just start talking. Don’t worry about being polite. Don't really have a problem with this statement, but you make it seem like its the extroverts duty to please the introvert to be friends with them. I mean, it does go both ways, but yeah in general you'll find an extrovert will start the conversation.. which isn't necessarily bad.
Myth #3 – Introverts are rude. Introverts often don’t see a reason for beating around the bush with social pleasantries. They want everyone to just be real and honest. Unfortunately, this is not acceptable in most settings, so Introverts can feel a lot of pressure to fit in, which they find exhausting. This is the myth bust that might be the most condescending. Don't like beating around the bush with social pleasantries? This is just how people that don't know each other too well interact. You're saying that the way most of society interacts is shallow, no, its just the way it is. "They want everyone to be real and honest" - So you're saying no one is real and honest except introverts? I beg to differ and might suggest that how real and honest someone is has NOTHING to do with their alignment with introvert or extrovert
Myth #4 – Introverts don’t like people. On the contrary, Introverts intensely value the few friends they have. They can count their close friends on one hand. If you are lucky enough for an introvert to consider you a friend, you probably have a loyal ally for life. Once you have earned their respect as being a person of substance, you’re in. So basically only Introverts can understand who a true friend is, and extroverts don't value their true friends. I know this isn't what you're trying to say, but that's basically what it sounds like
Myth #5 – Introverts don’t like to go out in public. Nonsense. Introverts just don’t like to go out in public FOR AS LONG. They also like to avoid the complications that are involved in public activities. They take in data and experiences very quickly, and as a result, don’t need to be there for long to “get it.” They’re ready to go home, recharge, and process it all. In fact, recharging is absolutely crucial for Introverts. No problem with this explanation
Myth #6 – Introverts always want to be alone. Introverts are perfectly comfortable with their own thoughts. They think a lot. They daydream. They like to have problems to work on, puzzles to solve. But they can also get incredibly lonely if they don’t have anyone to share their discoveries with. They crave an authentic and sincere connection with ONE PERSON at a time. Good explanation, but I think you're trying to speak for too many introverts. I have a lot of introverted friends and they like to socialize too, they aren't always quiet, and they yes crave and authentic and sincere connection with one person, but so do extroverts..
Myth #7 – Introverts are weird. Introverts are often individualists. They don’t follow the crowd. They’d prefer to be valued for their novel ways of living. They think for themselves and because of that, they often challenge the norm. They don’t make most decisions based on what is popular or trendy. LOL. You subscribe to jungian theory and you're trying to put introverts all in a category of having a novel way of living and thinking differently or for themselves. Guess what, a lot of people think for themselves and challenge the norm DESPITE their affiliation with introvert or extrovert, this literally has nothing at all to do with it. In fact, since you subscribe to jungian theory let me show you something
ENTP - Ne, Ti, Fe, Si INTP - Ti, Ne, Si, Fe
An INTP and ENTP are quite similar relatively except the order of their functions. ENTP has Ne, first, and Si last. Guess what makes the most rebellious people -------- Ne and a low Si. For an INTP they follow Ne Second and Si third compared to ENTP. This is ironic because arguably an ENTP is much more rebellious and against the norm. (Anecdotal source, I am ENTP and one of my best friends is INTP, I am definitely much more ready to rebel while he will sometimes go with the norms more than i will. Not only is your explanation completely wrong logically, it is disingenuous to all extroverts and tries to put them in a box of "conformists."
Myth #8 – Introverts are aloof nerds. Introverts are people who primarily look inward, paying close attention to their thoughts and emotions. It’s not that they are incapable of paying attention to what is going on around them, it’s just that their inner world is much more stimulating and rewarding to them. No problem with this statement
Myth #9 – Introverts don’t know how to relax and have fun. Introverts typically relax at home or in nature, not in busy public places. Introverts are not thrill seekers and adrenaline junkies. If there is too much talking and noise going on, they shut down. Their brains are too sensitive to the neurotransmitter called Dopamine. Introverts and Extroverts have different dominant neuro-pathways. Just look it up. Not really that bad of a statement, but still almost completely wrong. I have a really good ISTP friend who is one of the BIGGEST thrill seekers I know. Furthermore my INFP and INTP friend are also big thrill seekers but in different ways entirely. Introverts and extroverts literally have no reason to be more ready to be thrill seekers than their extroverted counterparts. Maybe introverts are in generally less thrill seeking in meeting people, but still, not really. Not only is this negative towards extroverts, the statement tries to put introverts in a box where they aren't fun thrill seeking people.
Myth #10 – Introverts can fix themselves and become Extroverts. A world without Introverts would be a world with few scientists, musicians, artists, poets, filmmakers, doctors, mathematicians, writers, and philosophers. That being said, there are still plenty of techniques an Extrovert can learn in order to interact with Introverts. (Yes, I reversed these two terms on purpose to show you how biased our society is.) Introverts cannot “fix themselves” and deserve respect for their natural temperament and contributions to the human race. In fact, one study (Silverman, 1986) showed that the percentage of Introverts increases with IQ. So, introverts are smarter than extroverts and they are the only ones that can be scientists, musicians, artists, poets, filmmakers, doctors, mathematicians, writers, and philosophers? You're asking everyone to stop generalizing introverts and saying negative things towards them when you are doing THE EXACT SAME THING FOR EXTROVERTS.
According to OP: 1. Extroverts are shallow, introverts are more genuine. 2. Extroverts are social conformists where as introverts follow their own path. 3. Extroverts engage in small talk which is completely terrible. 4. Extroverts don't value their real friends. 5. Introverts are never thrill seekers and are open to new stimuli 6. Introverts are smarter on the IQ scale 7. Extroverts are not as capable as introverts at some highly respected careers (scientist, mathematical, artists) 8. Extroverts are completely 100% responsible for interacting with introverts, and if introverts aren't social its usually the extroverts fault.
OP: tl;dr introverts rock according to my psuedo science and extroverts are sucky shallow people go introverts.
No dude. He is debunking myths about introverts, not asserting ideas about extroverts. Look carefully at your work and you'll see you put many words in his mouth.
On December 22 2012 09:54 ampson wrote: First off, that is a terribly obnoxious way to format the first post. A line between each quote and famous introvert? You could at least have spoilered that stuff and made it easier to read. It's a nice post detailing a certain type of personality according to a certain person, but I feel like it is promoting the use of creating a label for oneself to better your self esteem. Nobody needs to know that they're a (insert 4 letters here) and that they have all of the traits that somebody says that personality type has and that that makes them a special snowflake. I like to keep people out of boxes and take them for what they are. I'm sure that everyone has qualities from every "personality type" and just because someone is an INTJ doesn't mean they are a "Silent leader."
I also don't get why you feel like introverts are seen as less valuable by society. Your "problem" is that being outgoing and having social successes is considered to be a good thing by society. That's not a problem at all. Why should we think that social situations are a bad thing? Nobody can help the fact that someone who is insecure with themselves might feel pressured to do what other people do. That's just something that people have to live with and get over, and I suppose that kind of person can be helped by all this introvert pride stuff in the OP. The OP is certainly useful at addressing the problem, but that problem lies within someone who is not self-assured enough to not do what extroverts want to do. Society can't help that. And you may not realize it, but some of those videos/interviews reek of condescension.
Are you saying that introverts want to be extroverts but cant due to some kind of inferiority complex?
I'm saying that introverts who lack confidence in themselves will imitate extroverts, because extroverts are naturally more visible in social situations. According to the OP, this is a problem. But as I said, it isn't society's problem.
Bullshit it's not society's problem. Introverts tend to be extremely capable people, keep oppressing them and you only stifle progress.
Let me guess, you didn't watch Susan Cain's TED talk.
INTJ here, and great write up Barrin. I actually just finished Quiet by Susan Cain, and it really helped me understand a few more things about where I am at currently (the term young professional may apply). Being aware of your introverted/extroverted tendencies is a huge help in day to day business for me.
On December 22 2012 20:30 Absentia wrote: The similarminds and humanmetrics tests gave me INTJ results but I understand why internet tests can be inaccurate. One set of my results was pretty balanced overall and the other had more schewed results.
Personally, I think it's far more interesting discussing your experiences than simply claiming a particular 'type' because some tests ascribed it to you. I imagine people who've been ascribed the INTJ personality type differ from me in a variety of ways (e.g. our reasons for approaching, or not approaching, various social interactions and philosophical vs scientific minds) but such nuances aren't brought out in simply stating a four letter acronym.
I agree that it's far more interesting to discuss your experiences... unfortunately that's the catch 22 of talking about introversion. Trollolol.
On December 22 2012 14:30 Whitewing wrote: Looks like I'm an INTJ. Hardly anyone in my life (apart from my father) actually understands me particularly well.
I can definitely relate to this but I've never seen it as a bad thing. My relationship with my father is quite unique and I've never really been concerned with people understanding me or not.
At the OP: Your post is well written and compiled but there is actually nobody named as 'Buddha'. Guatama was the man and 'The Buddha' is a title. The 'person' people generally call 'Buddha' should actually be named 'The Buddha'. Source: I'm a student of Indian philosophy.
On December 22 2012 09:54 ampson wrote: First off, that is a terribly obnoxious way to format the first post. A line between each quote and famous introvert? You could at least have spoilered that stuff and made it easier to read. It's a nice post detailing a certain type of personality according to a certain person, but I feel like it is promoting the use of creating a label for oneself to better your self esteem. Nobody needs to know that they're a (insert 4 letters here) and that they have all of the traits that somebody says that personality type has and that that makes them a special snowflake. I like to keep people out of boxes and take them for what they are. I'm sure that everyone has qualities from every "personality type" and just because someone is an INTJ doesn't mean they are a "Silent leader."
I also don't get why you feel like introverts are seen as less valuable by society. Your "problem" is that being outgoing and having social successes is considered to be a good thing by society. That's not a problem at all. Why should we think that social situations are a bad thing? Nobody can help the fact that someone who is insecure with themselves might feel pressured to do what other people do. That's just something that people have to live with and get over, and I suppose that kind of person can be helped by all this introvert pride stuff in the OP. The OP is certainly useful at addressing the problem, but that problem lies within someone who is not self-assured enough to not do what extroverts want to do. Society can't help that. And you may not realize it, but some of those videos/interviews reek of condescension.
Are you saying that introverts want to be extroverts but cant due to some kind of inferiority complex?
I'm saying that introverts who lack confidence in themselves will imitate extroverts, because extroverts are naturally more visible in social situations. According to the OP, this is a problem. But as I said, it isn't society's problem.
Bullshit it's not society's problem. Introverts tend to be extremely capable people, keep oppressing them and you only stifle progress.
Let me guess, you didn't watch Susan Cain's TED talk.
i find it hypocritical that an introverted person such as her thinks introverts are 'disadvantaged in this extroverted society because of who they are' when she is a harvard law graduate.
On December 23 2012 00:24 Animzor wrote: I've been thinking about my own introversion for a long time and I have come to the conclusion that people cannot be divided into introvert and extrovert. There are very few people that I have met in my life that can be considered extroverted, at least the way that this thread describes them. I have met maybe 2-3 people that genuinely cannot handle their own thoughts and have to be around people all the time. Most people seem to be somewhere in the middle. I used to think I was severely introverted, but then I realized that I am not anxious at all about social gatherings/talking to people or whatever. But I do prefer to be alone, or with my closest friends. I honestly don't see any reason to put a label on that. This whole putting introverts on a pedestal seems to be a product of the fact that a LOT of people have suddenly become nerds/gamers and thus haven't practiced their socials skills as much as other people.
The fact that people like outgoing or "extroverted" people is because they often make others feel good about themselves. Everyone needs human contact, even the so called introverts This isn't a problem with society, it's just the way human beings work.
I agree a 100 percent. I enjoy and want solitude probably more than the average guy and mostly don't talk a lot, but I also sometimes enjoy small talk and "interacting for the sake of interacting" (interacting with others is a basic human need) and even being the center of attention every once in a while.
What good do those labels do? IQ is being good at what IQ tests measure. Same here. If you're happy with your life, fine, if not, you don't need a theory that explains why this is meant to be but you need to find out how to change it. And being sociable isn't rocket science. Experience plays a huge role. Going to a party after you've been on your own for five days will always feel awkward. But make a point of chatting with someone every day (random strangers, colleagues, whoever, doesn't matter), and the whole world changes very fast. We're always bad at what we don't have experience with. Sure, it's unhealthy if we all feel we have to be the life of the party all the time, but it's also unhealthy to make people believe they're irrevocably put in categories by nature or fate when those categories are in fact made up by psychologists based on commonsense stereotypes. You're not bound by what psychologists make of you in any way.
Some food for thought:
... there is the dogmatism of subject-predicate language structure that is often presented under the guise of objectivity. According to this dogmatism, when I say that Professor Lindzey‘s left shoe is an „introvert,“ everyone looks at his shoe as if this were something his shoe was responsible for. Or if I say that Professor Cattell‘s head is „discursive,“ everyone looks over to him, as if the proposition had popped out of his head instead of out of mine. Don‘t look at his head! Don‘t look at his shoe! Look at me; I‘m the one who is responsible for the statement. After you figure out what I mean you can look over there to see if you make any sense out of shoes and heads by construing them the way I do. -- George A. Kelly
Took one personsality test in person and 4 others online scored INTJ 4 times and INTP. Seems like a lot of TL are INTJ O.O. Would be interesting to know what % is which personality type.
I'm going to say this is silly. Just because, I've been an introvert, and guess what? It's not good. You SHOULD be confident. That's all it comes down to, and it's something you need to learn in life. Just because sociality encourages this isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Train yourself to be more confident. Go out there and make your voice heard.
"personality type" is bullshit. Be what you wanna be, dont take one of those tests and let yourself be labelled and defined. All it's going to do is box you in.
All it takes is a little confidence that we should all have. ______________________
I agree with others posting here that the OP is silly and possibly insulting. Just say something if you want to say something and you've got something to say.... it's as a general rule, always better to do something than to not do something. Especially in this life... "if ima die, whether or not I try: I might as well let the dice fly"
I'm sorry because I know I sound stupid but ever since I did psychology GCSE, I've thought that extrovert/introverted theory is just complete and total bullshit. Peoples personalities are a construct of everything, experience, knowledge, emotion, thoughts... someone can be introverted when they're depressed or extroverted when they're happy. The former can cause the latter for vice versa. Maybe like me, they just grow up a little and learn a little more, become more happy and change completely? It's a ludicrous oversimplification of a human being and the human condition to label people as one or the other.
Still think it's pretty much a load as defining someones personality like this is probably impossible. Then again, I also think IQ tests are pretty much a load.
On December 23 2012 02:55 WTFZerg wrote: Turns out I'm an ESTP.
Still think it's pretty much a load as defining someones personality like this is probably impossible. Then again, I also think IQ tests are pretty much a load.
^ Exactly. You can't label a human is either something or something else, the personality is the varying visible side to the most complicated combination of thoughts, experience, genetics and emotions imaginable. A personality test like these are pointless.
Interesting topic. Any guide on how to turn business meetings/conferences into a win as a introvert? After all, these are largely for networking and can be very important for your career, while I think the set up gives extroverts a clear edge.