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Early today, news broke that Jason Collins, a 12 year veteran of the NBA, and an active professional player has come out as gay. In a Sports Illustrated article published this morning for the May 6th issue(Sports Illustrated Article), the former Wizards and Celtics center has a lengthy personal expose, discussing topics such as his decision to come out with this timing, and what impact he thinks this revelation will make.
This announcement comes on the heels of a momentous few months for the issue of gay rights. Earlier this year, the controversial California Proposition 8 was affirmed as unconstitutional by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. The amendment is slated to be ruled on by the US Supreme Court. Earlier this year as well, Barack Obama became the first US President to support Marriage Equality.
Coming so soon after such developments, the timing seems fortuitous. The reaction from former teammates, coaches, current big name players, and media figures has been overwhelmingly positive.
A sample of the praise for Collin's decision:
@FLOTUS (Michelle Obama) “So proud of you, Jason Collins! This is a huge step forward for our country. We’ve got your back! —mo”
NBA Commissioner David Stern: “Jason has been a widely respected player and teammate throughout his career and we are proud he has assumed the leadership mantle on this very important issue.”
Kobe Bryant tweeted: "Proud of @jasoncollins34. Don't suffocate who u r because of the ignorance of others #courage #support #mambaarmystandup #BYOU"
Some Negative comments(which were much fewer):
Chris Broussard: “I believe that’s walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ. So I would not characterize that person as a Christian because I don’t think the Bible would characterize him as a Christian.”
Miami Dolphins Wide Reciever Mike Wallace: “All these beautiful women in the world and guys wanna mess with other guys.”
At least one article points out that Jason Collins was hardly a superstar, and at 12 years nearing his way out of the NBA(http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/29/17973849-jason-collins-coming-out-could-land-him-contract-cash-new-career-experts?lite), suggesting a more self serving reason for his timing.
What are your opinions? What does this mean for the gay equality movement, if anything? Will other younger players be inspired to come out while actively playing?
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He is far from the first openly gay professional athlete. He is the first active American professional athlete to come out, but seeing as how he is a soon to be free agent 34 year old journeyman center, he may as well be inactive.
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Good for him! There's a lot of burden for openly gay public figures in this day and age due to the absurd amounts of hate they receive. Hopefully this can all change.
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Too bad he's essentially an absolute nobody.
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On April 30 2013 11:47 DannyJ wrote: Too bad he's essentially an absolute nobody.
Yes making it in the NBA isn't like a challenge or anything.
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Yea no kidding, he may not be a star but being able to play in the league for over 10 years says something.
As for his announcement: Good for him! Very brave thing to do being an active athlete in US pro sports. He was even very careful waiting until he wasn't affiliated with a team so he wouldn't be a distraction for them. Good guy and I wish him all the luck!
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I was quite disipointed by this. Jackie Robinson (first black athlete in US sports with white people) was a superstar in the prime of his career when he strove forward race relations in this nation. He was spat on and insulted by every other team and the fans across the nation.
This guy is going to cash in greatly, never have to play another game again in his life, received a phone call from the president, and will be able to push out of the business anyone who says an odd word to him now, all from day 1 of coming out at the end of anything public that he had to do in his life.
But of course they're the same thing for civil rights in america.
Edit: I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he obviously made the best decision he could ever have made. Being in the NBA for that long takes a ton of talent, work ethic, and skill. I just don't see the real difference between him and the other retired openly gay professional athletes that have come out over the years when their career was over. The guy simply isn't an active Athlete in a major american sport.
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On April 30 2013 11:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 11:47 DannyJ wrote: Too bad he's essentially an absolute nobody. Yes making it in the NBA isn't like a challenge or anything.
Who cares? We know there are gay athletes out there. This guy is basically a nobody to the general population so while this is noteworthy and pretty awesome on his part it's not really going to publicly mean much, which was my point.
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I think he's the first while still playing.
liz carmouche is a UFC fighter and she is openly gay.
More people should come out imo.
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On April 30 2013 11:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 11:47 DannyJ wrote: Too bad he's essentially an absolute nobody. Yes making it in the NBA isn't like a challenge or anything. While this is true, the guy was no superstar. He isn't a household name for anything else other than this. There will be positive outcomes for his coming out, but generally sports are considered fairly masculine and it could end very poorly if larger figures that were popular came out against being gay. So far Kobe, who is a huge figure for kids, has said this is good, which is amazing. I'm just afraid that since generally the black population tends to be more conservative on religious values that this could end poorly.
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Yeah I was about to say because we know quite a few athletes who came out, but in terms of active athletes not so sure.
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In Europe, there are a fair amount of active LGBT athletes playing right now.
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He's probably going to get picked up by somebody next year.
Minimum payroll is going to rise from 85% to 90% of the cap. And the cap itself is expected to go from $50 to $60 or so million.
And the way the veteran minimum salaries work... if he signs for 1-yr 1.5 million the team would count only around $900k to the cap.
And I'm far from a NBA cap guru.. but could he be fishing for some kind of Over-36/Mid-level exemption...so a team would sign him for like 2yrs/$10mil... would that be worth the PR for some team?
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What an ignorant statement by Mike Wallace. Stuff like that pisses me off because they have no idea that people are born gay and that they don't choose to be gay. Nothing even religious about his comment (in that, at least there is a reason for hating, as bad as it might be if religion was involved). Then again, apart from religious reasons, I don't know why anyone would care who other people sexually desire. Maybe it was religiously provoked. Idk.
Good for Jason Collins with all the other support he's gotten. Even the call from Michelle Obama. That's pretty nice.
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On April 30 2013 11:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 11:47 DannyJ wrote: Too bad he's essentially an absolute nobody. Yes making it in the NBA isn't like a challenge or anything. hes still a nobody among the greats who make it in the NBA, im sure most people didnt even know he was a pro in nba.
that said, I'm glad he did it, its great for the world of sport, known to be a place for hyper-masculinity(patriachal) socialization. and its great for the society, helps acknowledge and accept differences that are still taboo, and strong particularly in the black community.
hmm I think the first openly gay pro was a footballer(soccer), at least i know there was this guy in MTL' impact (MLS team) who came out last year.
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i'm sorry, but as an NBA analyst, i don't think it's chris broussard's job to criticize whether or not someone is a christian. talk about the game, not your views
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On April 30 2013 13:00 Epishade wrote: What an ignorant statement by Mike Wallace. Stuff like that pisses me off because they have no idea that people are born gay and that they don't choose to be gay. Nothing even religious about his comment (in that, at least there is a reason for hating, as bad as it might be if religion was involved). Then again, apart from religious reasons, I don't know why anyone would care who other people sexually desire. Maybe it was religiously provoked. Idk.
Good for Jason Collins with all the other support he's gotten. Even the call from Michelle Obama. That's pretty nice.
Apparently he quickly deleted that tweet and put up an apology saying he didn't mean to offend just to say that he "doesn't understand it". IMO its still dumb as shit to say because of course he doesn't understand because he isn't gay, just like a gay person doesn't understand attraction to the opposite sex because that's just how they are. A very unnecessary comment "Omg everyone is different? No wai! I don't understand that people are different from each other!". Really just make him seem rather dim.
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Still waiting for the day this stuff is irrelevant so I can make my 'so that's why he sucked so much' jokes and not be called a bigot
Good for him and the sports world, stuff like this really is still needed.
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On April 30 2013 11:56 Sermokala wrote: I was quite disipointed by this. Jackie Robinson (first black athlete in US sports with white people) was a superstar in the prime of his career when he strove forward race relations in this nation. He was spat on and insulted by every other team and the fans across the nation.
This guy is going to cash in greatly, never have to play another game again in his life, received a phone call from the president, and will be able to push out of the business anyone who says an odd word to him now, all from day 1 of coming out at the end of anything public that he had to do in his life.
But of course they're the same thing for civil rights in america.
Edit: I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he obviously made the best decision he could ever have made. Being in the NBA for that long takes a ton of talent, work ethic, and skill. I just don't see the real difference between him and the other retired openly gay professional athletes that have come out over the years when their career was over. The guy simply isn't an active Athlete in a major american sport. To be honest, I prefer (less)-deserved fame to death threats, slurs, and physical injury.
America's come quite a way since Jim Crow. I'm glad we can handle it this way nowadays.
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On April 30 2013 12:33 RCMDVA wrote: He's probably going to get picked up by somebody next year.
Minimum payroll is going to rise from 85% to 90% of the cap. And the cap itself is expected to go from $50 to $60 or so million.
And the way the veteran minimum salaries work... if he signs for 1-yr 1.5 million the team would count only around $900k to the cap.
And I'm far from a NBA cap guru.. but could he be fishing for some kind of Over-36/Mid-level exemption...so a team would sign him for like 2yrs/$10mil... would that be worth the PR for some team?
If he wants to play he'll have zero problem finding a team. 7 footers can play as long as they actually care to. You can't teach 7 foot.
Good on him coming out. Yeah, he's not Michael Jordan but who cares? It shouldn't matter if he's gay or straight, but pro sports seem way behind the rest of the US in this regard. Either way its a step in the right direction.
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On April 30 2013 11:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 11:47 DannyJ wrote: Too bad he's essentially an absolute nobody. Yes making it in the NBA isn't like a challenge or anything.
Making it into the NBA doesn't make you a somebody... Sure it's amazingly tough to do but nobody knows you unless you're a star or good.
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On April 30 2013 13:28 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 11:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:On April 30 2013 11:47 DannyJ wrote: Too bad he's essentially an absolute nobody. Yes making it in the NBA isn't like a challenge or anything. Making it into the NBA doesn't make you a somebody... Sure it's amazingly tough to do but nobody knows you unless you're a star or good.
The better way to say it is being successful in the NBA (aka holding your job without getting demoted to the D-league or to another country's basketball league for a good amount of time) doesn't automatically make you a star. I'm sure he's a somebody to his family, friends, and even teammates.
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On April 30 2013 13:28 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 11:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:On April 30 2013 11:47 DannyJ wrote: Too bad he's essentially an absolute nobody. Yes making it in the NBA isn't like a challenge or anything. Making it into the NBA doesn't make you a somebody... Sure it's amazingly tough to do but nobody knows you unless you're a star or good.
Rather be an NBA nobody making a few million a year then a nobody on a forum....
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Sweet another gay Thread !
User was warned for this post
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Wow I just lost alot of respect for Chris Broussard....shame. He was one of my favorite sports analysts. Sports and religion should not mix...if you think gay people are going to hell just keep it to yourself.
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i don't get this kind of topics. what is this suppose to mean: if someone can live/train/play with/near/along a gay player for XX years without having previous knowledge of his sex status, means that he can do the same thing for XX years while knowing that said player is gay?. it doesn't make sense to me. of course it's going to be different; maybe not worse, not better, but different for sure.
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Chris Broussard: I believe that’s walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ. So I would not characterize that person as a Christian because I don’t think the Bible would characterize him as a Christian. He's probably breaking a lot of laws written in the bible himself, he just probably wasn't paying enough attention to them (wearing mixed fibers, just to state one).
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On April 30 2013 13:05 crazyweasel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 11:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:On April 30 2013 11:47 DannyJ wrote: Too bad he's essentially an absolute nobody. Yes making it in the NBA isn't like a challenge or anything. hes still a nobody among the greats who make it in the NBA, im sure most people didnt even know he was a pro in nba. that said, I'm glad he did it, its great for the world of sport, known to be a place for hyper-masculinity(patriachal) socialization. and its great for the society, helps acknowledge and accept differences that are still taboo, and strong particularly in the black community. hmm I think the first openly gay pro was a footballer(soccer), at least i know there was this guy in MTL' impact (MLS team) who came out last year. He's a nobody who's had a steady 10+year career in the NBA. Good for Collins.
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Well this is a good time to show that the vocal minority can't show this person more hatred than the liberal masses support him.
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On April 30 2013 13:43 nicknack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 13:28 GreEny K wrote:On April 30 2013 11:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:On April 30 2013 11:47 DannyJ wrote: Too bad he's essentially an absolute nobody. Yes making it in the NBA isn't like a challenge or anything. Making it into the NBA doesn't make you a somebody... Sure it's amazingly tough to do but nobody knows you unless you're a star or good. Rather be an NBA nobody making a few million a year then a nobody on a forum....
Lol no reason to be so snide. In an attempt to mask your own insecurity by calling out "a nobody on a forum", you miss the point of that post completely. He wasn't bashing this guy, he was just saying that while it's good that he's come out of the closet, it's not massively significant or ground-breaking, since he wasn't a famous superstar; that's a completely reasonable thing to say.
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Topic title is terribly misleading! That being said, I have no idea who he is, nor do I have an interest in the sport, but I have a huge amount of respect for him and his story from what I've read, and the support he's garnered from prominent peers is very heartening.Homophobia in sport has been endemic in the UK for quite some time, and although it's been improving, there is still a long way to go. Hopefully that this act can improve the culture in US sport, as it's improved in the UK, and encourage others to take that step without fear.
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A brave man, first of many hopefully (of the hidden homosexuals).
Let's hope he doesn't get fucked up by homophobia, atleast he's fucking buff and a top athlete, hopefully it'll decrease the chances of him being beat up / discriminated against some.
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Regardless of his achievements be it big or small, heterosexism and homophobia is still pretty bad in sports. One guy I dated who is bisexual is still scared to death to come out because he is a hockey player amongst a really macho group of friends and even though they are all supportive of gay rights (this is Canada btw), they still see homosexuality almost as a girly thing.
Also, we know what happened to Justin Fashanu, whether it was indeed rape or not, the homophobia was prevalent and the language and chants you often hear from footballers and hockey players at times...
However, I have high hopes that this case will be like Gareth Thomas.
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Fuck, I hate these narrow minded remarks, especially that awful crap that Chris Broussard spouted. What has religion to do with this? And who are you to judge people.
Tweets like that only empower the ignorance, hate and phobia of all the blindly following sheep. I have never been able to comprehend how you can hate a person because of his sexual preferences. What's next, we're all going to hate everyone that likes the color orange? Or everyone that likes vanilla ice cream?
I wish Anonymous would take some action against these 'public haters'!
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All the haters saying he is just looking to cash in can go fuck themselves. Jason and his twin brother spent a lot of time at a relative's house when they were growing up and my grandfather knows them reasonably well. Jason is a brilliant and humble guy and he is definitely doing this for the right reasons
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On April 30 2013 22:01 TaphrWesley wrote: Fuck, I hate these narrow minded remarks, especially that awful crap that Chris Broussard spouted. What has religion to do with this? And who are you to judge people.
Tweets like that only empower the ignorance, hate and phobia of all the blindly following sheep. I have never been able to comprehend how you can hate a person because of his sexual preferences. What's next, we're all going to hate everyone that likes the color orange? Or everyone that likes vanilla ice cream?
I wish Anonymous would take some action against these 'public haters'!
welcome to america
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Honestly I dont know why any heterosexual guy would insult gay guys. They are fucking great. Every gay guy means more girls left for the rest of us.
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I think this is a big moment. I heard on Mike and Mike (ESPN Radio) Martina Navratilova, one of tennis' first openly gay players talk about the difference between her experience and Jason's. Ronald Reagan practically refused to acknowledge the gay community or the AIDS problem. President Obama called to congratulate Jason!
Too bad ESPN didn't get the memo that it is the year 2013... http://deadspin.com/espns-chris-broussard-says-being-gay-is-an-open-rebel-484708467
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I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women.
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On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women.
Well given that he's always used his team's locker room, he's going to keep using it. Several players have already said that being paranoid about changing around a gay dude is stupid.
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United States22883 Posts
On April 30 2013 11:56 Sermokala wrote: I was quite disipointed by this. Jackie Robinson (first black athlete in US sports with white people) was a superstar in the prime of his career when he strove forward race relations in this nation. He was spat on and insulted by every other team and the fans across the nation.
This guy is going to cash in greatly, never have to play another game again in his life, received a phone call from the president, and will be able to push out of the business anyone who says an odd word to him now, all from day 1 of coming out at the end of anything public that he had to do in his life.
But of course they're the same thing for civil rights in america.
Edit: I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he obviously made the best decision he could ever have made. Being in the NBA for that long takes a ton of talent, work ethic, and skill. I just don't see the real difference between him and the other retired openly gay professional athletes that have come out over the years when their career was over. The guy simply isn't an active Athlete in a major american sport. First, this is like saying you're disappointed because "Rosa Parks was just a nobody. Who cares how she was treated on a bus?" I think it's actually more critical that Collins is a non-superstar athlete because it'll show more about people's character in how they treat him. If he were a superstar, people acquiesce to him no matter what, even hiding their homophobia. Because he's not a great player nor is he essential, people's true feelings are more likely to be revealed.
I've heard people talk about him "cashing in" on a book deal or something. He's made $30+ million playing basketball and he'll make 1.35m if he gets another year. He may be doing it for publicity, but I don't think money is his motivation.
The difference is that he's not retired. His career might be dwindling, but he has the chance to play for another year or two and make millions more dollars. It's less of a risk than someone in their prime coming out, but that's exactly why they don't. To date, I think this is the biggest risk a gay athlete has ever taken in coming out publicly.
It might not be big enough for your liking, but your liking kind of sucks.
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United States22883 Posts
On April 30 2013 22:32 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. Well given that he's always used his team's locker room, he's going to keep using it. Several players have already said that being paranoid about changing around a gay dude is stupid. I think athletes/teammates are less homophobic than the fans.
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United States40776 Posts
On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. You're not allowed to shower with girls because you're not a girl. Gay men aren't girls either.
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On April 30 2013 11:56 Sermokala wrote: I was quite disipointed by this. Jackie Robinson (first black athlete in US sports with white people) was a superstar in the prime of his career when he strove forward race relations in this nation. He was spat on and insulted by every other team and the fans across the nation.
This guy is going to cash in greatly, never have to play another game again in his life, received a phone call from the president, and will be able to push out of the business anyone who says an odd word to him now, all from day 1 of coming out at the end of anything public that he had to do in his life.
But of course they're the same thing for civil rights in america.
Edit: I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he obviously made the best decision he could ever have made. Being in the NBA for that long takes a ton of talent, work ethic, and skill. I just don't see the real difference between him and the other retired openly gay professional athletes that have come out over the years when their career was over. The guy simply isn't an active Athlete in a major american sport.
By definition, he is active. He's a free agent. Just because he currently isn't with a team doesn't mean you need to be a dick about it.
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On April 30 2013 22:20 Yuljan wrote: Honestly I dont know why any heterosexual guy would insult gay guys. They are fucking great. Every gay guy means more girls left for the rest of us. If you ever need a good wingman, give me a call.
On April 30 2013 22:32 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. Well given that he's always used his team's locker room, he's going to keep using it. Several players have already said that being paranoid about changing around a gay dude is stupid. Being attracted to men myself, I learned very easily how to learn how to deal with situations such as this. In a locker room, there is nothing that is meant to be sexual, yes there are other naked guys but you do not feel arousal because the purpose is to change, not to relieve sexual tension. When you are naked with another guy in bed or looking at porn, you feel arousal because that is exactly what you are suppose to do in such a situation.
Also, please treat us as men, not as women.
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On April 30 2013 22:32 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. Well given that he's always used his team's locker room, he's going to keep using it. Several players have already said that being paranoid about changing around a gay dude is stupid.
It may be so, that he will still change,shower etc with all the other players. How would the gay community react if a heterosexual player finds it inappropriate ? Would they instantly label him as homophobe?
Why dont women and men , girls and boys shower together? Is it because one has a penis and the other a vagina?
No, its because of sexuality. Atleast I think thats why.
I just find it to be interesting to think about
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On April 30 2013 22:37 Shiragaku wrote: Being attracted to men myself, I learned very easily how to learn how to deal with situations such as this. In a locker room, there is nothing that is meant to be sexual, yes there are other naked guys but you do not feel arousal because the purpose is to change, not to relieve sexual tension. When you are naked with another guy in bed or looking at porn, you feel arousal because that is exactly what you are suppose to do in such a situation.
Exactly; I wish more straight guys who bring up the locker room thing knew how it feels.
I feel awkward in the guy's changing room and I'd feel just as awkward in the lady's. Especially when people know you're not straight. After sports lessons in school I wished I could just disappear or magically change back into my school uniform.
Gay/bi people get brought up in a school environment where "gay" and "faggot" are used as insults all the time, often in communities where they're shunned and people think they're ogling everyone in the room.
Not to say there aren't guy's who'd sneak a peek and appreciate in a changing room, there certainly are, just how there are millions of straight men who'd do the same if they were in a women's changing room.
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On April 30 2013 22:37 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:20 Yuljan wrote: Honestly I dont know why any heterosexual guy would insult gay guys. They are fucking great. Every gay guy means more girls left for the rest of us. If you ever need a good wingman, give me a call. Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:32 Klondikebar wrote:On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. Well given that he's always used his team's locker room, he's going to keep using it. Several players have already said that being paranoid about changing around a gay dude is stupid. Being attracted to men myself, I learned very easily how to learn how to deal with situations such as this. In a locker room, there is nothing that is meant to be sexual, yes there are other naked guys but you do not feel arousal because the purpose is to change, not to relieve sexual tension. When you are naked with another guy in bed or looking at porn, you feel arousal because that is exactly what you are suppose to do in such a situation. Also, please treat us as men, not as women.
Hi !
Yes, But that is your personal experience and opinion. If I would shower with girls naked I wouldnt get hard aswell but I sure would look at that ass very different from a guys, or the breast, or the face. Hell I would be a happy man and shower a lot more and longer then usual.
If iam at a caffe i look at hot girls walking by thinking "damn she was nice", I dont do that about guys.
Its a big difference, at least for me, being naked infront of a girl than a guy. But hey, we are all different. I love all people.
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On April 30 2013 22:37 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:20 Yuljan wrote: Honestly I dont know why any heterosexual guy would insult gay guys. They are fucking great. Every gay guy means more girls left for the rest of us. If you ever need a good wingman, give me a call. Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:32 Klondikebar wrote:On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. Well given that he's always used his team's locker room, he's going to keep using it. Several players have already said that being paranoid about changing around a gay dude is stupid. Being attracted to men myself, I learned very easily how to learn how to deal with situations such as this. In a locker room, there is nothing that is meant to be sexual, yes there are other naked guys but you do not feel arousal because the purpose is to change, not to relieve sexual tension. When you are naked with another guy in bed or looking at porn, you feel arousal because that is exactly what you are suppose to do in such a situation. Also, please treat us as men, not as women.
Also gaydar is more effective than people think. It's rare for me to be attracted to a straight guy without a lot of alcohol or unless they're intentionally leading me on. I could change in a locker room full of straight guys without batting an eye.
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On April 30 2013 22:44 SwedishHero wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:37 Shiragaku wrote:On April 30 2013 22:20 Yuljan wrote: Honestly I dont know why any heterosexual guy would insult gay guys. They are fucking great. Every gay guy means more girls left for the rest of us. If you ever need a good wingman, give me a call. On April 30 2013 22:32 Klondikebar wrote:On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. Well given that he's always used his team's locker room, he's going to keep using it. Several players have already said that being paranoid about changing around a gay dude is stupid. Being attracted to men myself, I learned very easily how to learn how to deal with situations such as this. In a locker room, there is nothing that is meant to be sexual, yes there are other naked guys but you do not feel arousal because the purpose is to change, not to relieve sexual tension. When you are naked with another guy in bed or looking at porn, you feel arousal because that is exactly what you are suppose to do in such a situation. Also, please treat us as men, not as women. Hi ! Yes, But that is your personal experience and opinion. If I would shower with girls naked I wouldnt get hard aswell but I sure would look at that ass very different from a guys, or the breast, or the face. Hell I would be a happy man and shower a lot more and longer then usual. If iam at a caffe i look at hot girls walking by thinking "damn she was nice", I dont do that about guys. Its a big difference, at least for me, being naked infront of a girl than a guy. But hey, we are all different. I love all people. In that case, all I have to tell you is to be less perverted and grow up a little.
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On April 30 2013 11:47 DannyJ wrote: Too bad he's essentially an absolute nobody.
Why not even say: "Too bad he's gay", that would have been even remotely funny
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On April 30 2013 22:56 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:37 Shiragaku wrote:On April 30 2013 22:20 Yuljan wrote: Honestly I dont know why any heterosexual guy would insult gay guys. They are fucking great. Every gay guy means more girls left for the rest of us. If you ever need a good wingman, give me a call. On April 30 2013 22:32 Klondikebar wrote:On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. Well given that he's always used his team's locker room, he's going to keep using it. Several players have already said that being paranoid about changing around a gay dude is stupid. Being attracted to men myself, I learned very easily how to learn how to deal with situations such as this. In a locker room, there is nothing that is meant to be sexual, yes there are other naked guys but you do not feel arousal because the purpose is to change, not to relieve sexual tension. When you are naked with another guy in bed or looking at porn, you feel arousal because that is exactly what you are suppose to do in such a situation. Also, please treat us as men, not as women. Also gaydar is more effective than people think. It's rare for me to be attracted to a straight guy without a lot of alcohol or unless they're intentionally leading me on. I could change in a locker room full of straight guys without batting an eye.
Rare for you, not necessarily rare for plenty of other gay guys though.
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On April 30 2013 22:57 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:44 SwedishHero wrote:On April 30 2013 22:37 Shiragaku wrote:On April 30 2013 22:20 Yuljan wrote: Honestly I dont know why any heterosexual guy would insult gay guys. They are fucking great. Every gay guy means more girls left for the rest of us. If you ever need a good wingman, give me a call. On April 30 2013 22:32 Klondikebar wrote:On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. Well given that he's always used his team's locker room, he's going to keep using it. Several players have already said that being paranoid about changing around a gay dude is stupid. Being attracted to men myself, I learned very easily how to learn how to deal with situations such as this. In a locker room, there is nothing that is meant to be sexual, yes there are other naked guys but you do not feel arousal because the purpose is to change, not to relieve sexual tension. When you are naked with another guy in bed or looking at porn, you feel arousal because that is exactly what you are suppose to do in such a situation. Also, please treat us as men, not as women. Hi ! Yes, But that is your personal experience and opinion. If I would shower with girls naked I wouldnt get hard aswell but I sure would look at that ass very different from a guys, or the breast, or the face. Hell I would be a happy man and shower a lot more and longer then usual. If iam at a caffe i look at hot girls walking by thinking "damn she was nice", I dont do that about guys. Its a big difference, at least for me, being naked infront of a girl than a guy. But hey, we are all different. I love all people. In that case, all I have to tell you is to be less perverted and grow up a little.
That was a very silly comment of you to make. Iam perverted because I love the female body? And because I admire it?
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Klondikebar, I also think you are either lying or as marvellosity said.
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On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women.
Couldn't care less what kind of sexuality men in a showerroom have and to be honest as a heterosexual man I would be offended if a gay person wouldn't at least sneak a peek to see how I am "built".
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I'm happy for him now he can be himself and that he doesn't have to hide anything. Still, I wonder why homosexuality amongst male athletes seems to be lower than the general population? The media would like us to be believe athletes as a subset of the general population are no different and that there are hundreds or thousands of male athletes scared to come out but this doesn't pass the whiff test. I would go so far as to say the media has an agenda in pushing this story. I pose it as a question because I have no idea why this would be. I suspect that hormones or whatever it is that makes these people excel at what they do may also effect their sexuality.
I'm not someone who has ever seen or had any interest in watching a game of basketball but isn't it different to most other sports in a very obvious way? When you talk about specific sports a body shape often emerges. This is because that shape is what is most bio mechanically efficient. So when you have a sport where the average height is 6'8" or whatever it is then you can do a bit of math. What is the bell curve of height? people that height are extraordinarily rare. The fact the sport selects for something specific that is so rare suggests that height confers a direct advantage and one that is almost unassailable. Could it be that this guy, or the English NBA guy who came out before him are gay guys who just happen to be unusually tall rather than conventional athletes who happen to be gay? Again I ask this as a question without judging because I have never seen a game of basketball and don't dispute that they were great basketballers only the agenda that a lack of 'out' male athletes is necessarily indicative of something sinister.
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On April 30 2013 22:35 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. You're not allowed to shower with girls because you're not a girl. Gay men aren't girls either.
That was a very simpe way to look at it. Why do you think it was made that way from the beggining ? Because one is a girl and the other is a guy?
If the normal order from the begginning was girls having sex with girls and guys having sex with you guys and the "gay" way was girl with guy you still think we would have the same system concerning dresser/shower rooms?
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On April 30 2013 23:11 SwedishHero wrote: Klondikebar, I also think you are either lying or as marvellosity said.
You can think what you will. But you can rest easy knowing that if you were to get naked for me I wouldn't even chub. You straight guys are safe from the rabid onslaught of gay male sexual desire.
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On April 30 2013 23:24 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 23:11 SwedishHero wrote: Klondikebar, I also think you are either lying or as marvellosity said. You can think what you will. But you can rest easy knowing that if you were to get naked for me I wouldn't even chub. You straight guys are safe from the rabid onslaught of gay male sexual desire.
Okey ! Then its that other thing!
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I think it's mostly the "they have different bits from us" that makes humans separate showers, bathrooms, etc in public environments. Sexual attraction is not necessarily the main concern here.
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On April 30 2013 23:08 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:56 Klondikebar wrote:On April 30 2013 22:37 Shiragaku wrote:On April 30 2013 22:20 Yuljan wrote: Honestly I dont know why any heterosexual guy would insult gay guys. They are fucking great. Every gay guy means more girls left for the rest of us. If you ever need a good wingman, give me a call. On April 30 2013 22:32 Klondikebar wrote:On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. Well given that he's always used his team's locker room, he's going to keep using it. Several players have already said that being paranoid about changing around a gay dude is stupid. Being attracted to men myself, I learned very easily how to learn how to deal with situations such as this. In a locker room, there is nothing that is meant to be sexual, yes there are other naked guys but you do not feel arousal because the purpose is to change, not to relieve sexual tension. When you are naked with another guy in bed or looking at porn, you feel arousal because that is exactly what you are suppose to do in such a situation. Also, please treat us as men, not as women. Also gaydar is more effective than people think. It's rare for me to be attracted to a straight guy without a lot of alcohol or unless they're intentionally leading me on. I could change in a locker room full of straight guys without batting an eye. Rare for you, not necessarily rare for plenty of other gay guys though.
Not a single one of my gay friends has ever hit on a straight dude unless the guy was deliberately trying to appear gay or in a gay bar. Oh marv, contrarian as always.
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On April 30 2013 23:23 SwedishHero wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:35 KwarK wrote:On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. You're not allowed to shower with girls because you're not a girl. Gay men aren't girls either. That was a very simpe way to look at it. Why do you think it was made that way from the beggining ? Because one is a girl and the other is a guy? If the normal order from the begginning was girls having sex with girls and guys having sex with you guys and the "gay" way was girl with guy you still think we would have the same system concerning dresser/shower rooms?
In that scenario you do realize that there could only be 2 people, 1 female and 1 male per locker room at a time. If that was the normal order from the beginning. Which would mean you would need about 3.5 Billion Locker Rooms.
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On April 30 2013 23:33 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 23:23 SwedishHero wrote:On April 30 2013 22:35 KwarK wrote:On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. You're not allowed to shower with girls because you're not a girl. Gay men aren't girls either. That was a very simpe way to look at it. Why do you think it was made that way from the beggining ? Because one is a girl and the other is a guy? If the normal order from the begginning was girls having sex with girls and guys having sex with you guys and the "gay" way was girl with guy you still think we would have the same system concerning dresser/shower rooms? In that scenario you do realize that there could only be 2 people, 1 female and 1 male per locker room at a time. If that was the normal order from the beginning. Which would mean you would need about 3.5 Billion Locker Rooms.
haha ) Good one :D
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Why this is even news baffles me.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On April 30 2013 23:31 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 23:08 marvellosity wrote:On April 30 2013 22:56 Klondikebar wrote:On April 30 2013 22:37 Shiragaku wrote:On April 30 2013 22:20 Yuljan wrote: Honestly I dont know why any heterosexual guy would insult gay guys. They are fucking great. Every gay guy means more girls left for the rest of us. If you ever need a good wingman, give me a call. On April 30 2013 22:32 Klondikebar wrote:On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. Well given that he's always used his team's locker room, he's going to keep using it. Several players have already said that being paranoid about changing around a gay dude is stupid. Being attracted to men myself, I learned very easily how to learn how to deal with situations such as this. In a locker room, there is nothing that is meant to be sexual, yes there are other naked guys but you do not feel arousal because the purpose is to change, not to relieve sexual tension. When you are naked with another guy in bed or looking at porn, you feel arousal because that is exactly what you are suppose to do in such a situation. Also, please treat us as men, not as women. Also gaydar is more effective than people think. It's rare for me to be attracted to a straight guy without a lot of alcohol or unless they're intentionally leading me on. I could change in a locker room full of straight guys without batting an eye. Rare for you, not necessarily rare for plenty of other gay guys though. Not a single one of my gay friends has ever hit on a straight dude unless the guy was deliberately trying to appear gay or in a gay bar. Oh marv, contrarian as always.
Nothing to do with contrarian, I know plenty of gay guys who have been attracted to straight guys, that's all.
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Still, that locker room thing is actually kind of a valid point.
I personally wouldn't mind, but i also had a mixed Sauna in the fitness center i went to and didn't think of it as a sexual thing.
However, this situation is very much complicated. It is obviously wrong to discriminate against the gay guy who probably doesn't even care about the other men in the locker room, and it is not like he can just not change or shower after sports. But the fact still remains that a lot of people will be uncomfortable being naked around a person that can be attracted to them, after all that is the whole point of having different locker rooms/showers for men and women. And i am pretty sure that even though a lot of men will tell you otherwise, they would also feel uncomfortable showering with women.
Having 4 different showers/locker rooms would be both impractical and not even solve the problem, because if the whole point of the segregation of those is to make sure noone is showering together with someone they could possibly be attracted to, then you would still have that problem in the gay/lesbian showers.
So i really don't know what to think about this. There does not appear to be a clean solution that is fair to everyone. Basically pretty much the only possible solution is for people to just stop giving a fuck about who sees them naked while showering, in which case we could get rid of the whole problem altogether and just have one big shower/locker room. But i doubt that is going to happen.
At the moment, probably the best solution would be to let the gay guys shower with the straight guys, but it is not fair to act like there is not even a reason to talk about this. I also don't think it is necessarily homophobic to not want to be naked around gay people, different people have different limits within which they are comfortable being naked, and having people who are potentially attracted to you around is pretty high on the list of reasons that make it uncomfortable. Most women don't want to shower together with men, and most men, despite saying otherwise would be uncomfortable showering around women.
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I thought there were plenty of openly gay athletes. Guess I was wrong. This news is just weird to me.
About the locker rooms. I think it's fair for straight men to not want gay men in the same showers just like women wouldn't want men in their showers. However, finding a solution is difficult and I guess people should just try to not give a fuck unless a gay guy is acting inappropriately.
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United States40776 Posts
I'm straight and I still feel uncomfortable showering with other people I'm not in a sexual relationship with because I'm getting my junk out in front of random people. Ultimately it comes down to either demanding your own private shower to feel better or dealing with it, gay or straight doesn't make any difference to me in that regard.
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It's just a sad sign of our times that this is even worth mentioning. Someone who is known for an activity which is not related to sexuality, admits that they are homosexual as if it means a thing? I mean, if people learn to accept him, it's great, one step forward, I'm just looking forward to the time where this kind of controversy over a completely personal thing is non existent.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On April 30 2013 23:51 Rogerabbit_gosu wrote: It's just a sad sign of our times that this is even worth mentioning. Someone who is known for an activity which is not related to sexuality, admits that they are homosexual as if it means a thing? I mean, if people learn to accept him, it's great, one step forward, I'm just looking forward to the time where this kind of controversy over a completely personal thing is non existent.
This is pretty misleading, because the fact it's being talked about is an encouraging 'sign of our times'. Certainly every sports dude who comes out is a success, which will in the future lead to the point where it doesn't matter anymore. These things don't happen all at once though.
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On April 30 2013 23:51 KwarK wrote: I'm straight and I still feel uncomfortable showering with other people I'm not in a sexual relationship with because I'm getting my junk out in front of random people. Ultimately it comes down to either demanding your own private shower to feel better or dealing with it, gay or straight doesn't make any difference to me in that regard. Thank God for some consistency. That is what I always like about your opinions on everything you talk about whether I agree with it or not.
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Two years ago there was an interview with a german national football player who said he knew of several gay men on the team, but there are no professional football players in the whole Bundesliga who are openly gay. It's a huge taboo in sports. Maybe not in synchronized swimming or ice skating, I guess.
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On April 30 2013 22:33 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 11:56 Sermokala wrote: I was quite disipointed by this. Jackie Robinson (first black athlete in US sports with white people) was a superstar in the prime of his career when he strove forward race relations in this nation. He was spat on and insulted by every other team and the fans across the nation.
This guy is going to cash in greatly, never have to play another game again in his life, received a phone call from the president, and will be able to push out of the business anyone who says an odd word to him now, all from day 1 of coming out at the end of anything public that he had to do in his life.
But of course they're the same thing for civil rights in america.
Edit: I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he obviously made the best decision he could ever have made. Being in the NBA for that long takes a ton of talent, work ethic, and skill. I just don't see the real difference between him and the other retired openly gay professional athletes that have come out over the years when their career was over. The guy simply isn't an active Athlete in a major american sport. First, this is like saying you're disappointed because "Rosa Parks was just a nobody. Who cares how she was treated on a bus?" I think it's actually more critical that Collins is a non-superstar athlete because it'll show more about people's character in how they treat him. If he were a superstar, people acquiesce to him no matter what, even hiding their homophobia. Because he's not a great player nor is he essential, people's true feelings are more likely to be revealed. I've heard people talk about him "cashing in" on a book deal or something. He's made $30+ million playing basketball and he'll make 1.35m if he gets another year. He may be doing it for publicity, but I don't think money is his motivation. The difference is that he's not retired. His career might be dwindling, but he has the chance to play for another year or two and make millions more dollars. It's less of a risk than someone in their prime coming out, but that's exactly why they don't. To date, I think this is the biggest risk a gay athlete has ever taken in coming out publicly. It might not be big enough for your liking, but your liking kind of sucks. Are you high? "peoples true feelings might be revealed"? Anyone that talks anything bad about this guy is going to be instantly hounded by everyone. This isn't some rosa parks "gee I might die from sitting in the front of the bus" this is some guy whos at the end of his career coming out because hes got nothing to lose and a ton to gain from it. Nike has said they have a large deal waiting for the first guy coming out and his net worth just exploded if he can brand him self as the "first openly gay active athlete in US major mens sports history. Even if he isn't that thing hes still going to be wildly celebrated for some reason.
There is literally no risk to this guy coming out and you are completely mad if you think there is. No reason to insult me because I'm not on the same bandwagon of hope you do.
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On May 01 2013 00:09 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:33 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 11:56 Sermokala wrote: I was quite disipointed by this. Jackie Robinson (first black athlete in US sports with white people) was a superstar in the prime of his career when he strove forward race relations in this nation. He was spat on and insulted by every other team and the fans across the nation.
This guy is going to cash in greatly, never have to play another game again in his life, received a phone call from the president, and will be able to push out of the business anyone who says an odd word to him now, all from day 1 of coming out at the end of anything public that he had to do in his life.
But of course they're the same thing for civil rights in america.
Edit: I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he obviously made the best decision he could ever have made. Being in the NBA for that long takes a ton of talent, work ethic, and skill. I just don't see the real difference between him and the other retired openly gay professional athletes that have come out over the years when their career was over. The guy simply isn't an active Athlete in a major american sport. First, this is like saying you're disappointed because "Rosa Parks was just a nobody. Who cares how she was treated on a bus?" I think it's actually more critical that Collins is a non-superstar athlete because it'll show more about people's character in how they treat him. If he were a superstar, people acquiesce to him no matter what, even hiding their homophobia. Because he's not a great player nor is he essential, people's true feelings are more likely to be revealed. I've heard people talk about him "cashing in" on a book deal or something. He's made $30+ million playing basketball and he'll make 1.35m if he gets another year. He may be doing it for publicity, but I don't think money is his motivation. The difference is that he's not retired. His career might be dwindling, but he has the chance to play for another year or two and make millions more dollars. It's less of a risk than someone in their prime coming out, but that's exactly why they don't. To date, I think this is the biggest risk a gay athlete has ever taken in coming out publicly. It might not be big enough for your liking, but your liking kind of sucks. Are you high? "peoples true feelings might be revealed"? Anyone that talks anything bad about this guy is going to be instantly hounded by everyone. This isn't some rosa parks "gee I might die from sitting in the front of the bus" this is some guy whos at the end of his career coming out because hes got nothing to lose and a ton to gain from it. Nike has said they have a large deal waiting for the first guy coming out and his net worth just exploded if he can brand him self as the "first openly gay active athlete in US major mens sports history. Even if he isn't that thing hes still going to be wildly celebrated for some reason. There is literally no risk to this guy coming out and you are completely mad if you think there is. No reason to insult me because I'm not on the same bandwagon of hope you do.
Whether or not you see a risk, believe me, coming out of the closet is a challenge for everyone and it's always a hard thing to do. This wasn't a "no lose" situation for him.
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On April 30 2013 23:23 SwedishHero wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:35 KwarK wrote:On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. You're not allowed to shower with girls because you're not a girl. Gay men aren't girls either. That was a very simpe way to look at it. Why do you think it was made that way from the beggining ? Because one is a girl and the other is a guy? If the normal order from the begginning was girls having sex with girls and guys having sex with you guys and the "gay" way was girl with guy you still think we would have the same system concerning dresser/shower rooms?
Ya you wouldnt want him to be so overcome by desire from your body that he isnt able to control himself, and takes advantage of you in the team shower surrounded by everyone. Give me a break. Who gives a damn if hes in the same shower as you? Hes just another human being, and hes your teammate.
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On April 30 2013 23:51 KwarK wrote: I'm straight and I still feel uncomfortable showering with other people I'm not in a sexual relationship with because I'm getting my junk out in front of random people. Ultimately it comes down to either demanding your own private shower to feel better or dealing with it, gay or straight doesn't make any difference to me in that regard. touché
basically intimacy comes down to "feeling" looked at, which is the main reason why girl changing up might ask you to turn around. because you're both conscious of the possible attraction of either one of you. this is what might make people feel unconfortable. I don't think this form of discomfort is related to homophobia but simply to this principle of proximity. I could care less being naked in front of people I'm familiar with, friends,gf, relatives. "but he was familiar in the past, he used to shower with them" that's totally true, but his coming out put a difference in the relation between him and his teamates, just like after being away from your parent's house for a couples years can bring discomfort if they see you or you see them naked.
About the locker rooms. I think it's fair for straight men to not want gay men in the same showers just like women wouldn't want men in their showers. However, finding a solution is difficult and I guess people should just try to not give a fuck unless a gay guy is acting inappropriately.
No, its not right for straight men to not want him in the locker room, but it would be right to be unconfortable (like i explained), it's something they must face. you can't just segregate things/people that make you feel uncomfortable, because that would be based on the prejudice that he would act inappropriately cause hes gay. Him being gay won't make him act inappropriately, he's still subject to "rules", "norms" and "morality", like most men in a girl's room would respect women intimacy.
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What's with the showerophobia? If every gay or bi would corner straight men with a pulsing hard-on, or want to soap someone down for half an hour after every training... there might be a point. Point is, as long as people keep up the facade of being 100% straight and you haven't ever been bothered with that, thát might be the problem. This guy has been showering for all of his life with men who might very well be gay as well, but no-one ever bothered, isn't that a sign that being gay is all in the homophobe's head?
Have you ever showered with people you knew were gay/bi, or people you weren't fully familiar with in the sexual orientation department? Have you caught the plague yet? I haven't. And I've been showering with people I know to be gay, bi and heterosexual for years, and I'm sure quite many whom I don't. It doesn't mean we're tossing bars of soap at each others' feet, or dance the YMCA naked, it's just a reality of the country I'm living in, the sport I'm playing. I'm sure heterosexuals showering mixedly wouldn't lead to orgies or mass embarassment, despite what beavis and butthead cs would make you believe. It might even be a good thing to help people get over themselves. Sure, different countries and social groups have different showering habits, but not wanting to shower with gay people is rather embarassing. In my opinion at least.
So if you're against don't-ask-don't-tell, the logical consequence would be that you accept people with a different sexual orientation in every way you would accept people with different skin colour or BMI or WHATEVER.
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I don't see how this is news-worthy(note I see how this is news-worthy but I should rather say, I don't understand why this is news-worthy. Hmmm ... or rather, this should not be news-worthy?)
Anyway good for him. If he was a girl no one would care.
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On May 01 2013 00:29 crazyweasel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 23:51 KwarK wrote: I'm straight and I still feel uncomfortable showering with other people I'm not in a sexual relationship with because I'm getting my junk out in front of random people. Ultimately it comes down to either demanding your own private shower to feel better or dealing with it, gay or straight doesn't make any difference to me in that regard. touché basically intimacy comes down to "feeling" looked at, which is the main reason why girl changing up might ask you to turn around. because you're both conscious of the possible attraction of either one of you. this is what might make people feel unconfortable. I don't think this form of discomfort is related to homophobia but simply to this principle of proximity. I could care less being naked in front of people I'm familiar with, friends,gf, relatives. "but he was familiar in the past, he used to shower with them" that's totally true, but his coming out put a difference in the relation between him and his teamates, just like after being away from your parent's house for a couples years can bring discomfort if they see you or you see them naked. Show nested quote +About the locker rooms. I think it's fair for straight men to not want gay men in the same showers just like women wouldn't want men in their showers. However, finding a solution is difficult and I guess people should just try to not give a fuck unless a gay guy is acting inappropriately. No, its not right for straight men to not want him in the locker room, but it would be right to be unconfortable (like i explained), it's something they must face. you can't just segregate things/people that make you feel uncomfortable, because that would be based on the prejudice that he would act inappropriately cause hes gay. Him being gay won't make him act inappropriately, he's still subject to "rules", "norms" and "morality", like most men in a girl's room would respect women intimacy.
To play the devils advocate a bit, I dont see how one can then justify gender-segregated showers either (or toilets, but that's another can of worms entirely)
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United States22883 Posts
On April 30 2013 23:21 eburnsdaniel wrote: I'm happy for him now he can be himself and that he doesn't have to hide anything. Still, I wonder why homosexuality amongst male athletes seems to be lower than the general population? The media would like us to be believe athletes as a subset of the general population are no different and that there are hundreds or thousands of male athletes scared to come out but this doesn't pass the whiff test.
Why not?
That's exactly why this is a story, he's no longer keeping it hidden. If most gay athletes felt comfortable doing that, this wouldn't be a story. Tying it in to hormones is just foolish.
The other stupid part about the locker room discussion is that every professional sports locker room is filled with men and women (reporters, trainers, assistants, etc.) after games. It's not sexual at all. EDIT: Unless you're Magic Johnson.
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On May 01 2013 00:32 Shikyo wrote: I don't see how this is news-worthy(note I see how this is news-worthy but I should rather say, I don't understand why this is news-worthy. Hmmm ... or rather, this should not be news-worthy?)
Anyway good for him. If he was a girl no one would care.
I agree with this sentiment: Why is this news? Let's look at it logically. A professional athlete is announcing he is gay. That's it. President Obama just said in his interview a few minutes ago that a man should be judged on his character and not his sexual preference. And yet, the media is doing the opposite. We are calling this guy a "hero" based on his sexual preference and not his character. Only after he said he was gay did anyone look into his character.
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United States22883 Posts
On May 01 2013 00:38 catabowl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 00:32 Shikyo wrote: I don't see how this is news-worthy(note I see how this is news-worthy but I should rather say, I don't understand why this is news-worthy. Hmmm ... or rather, this should not be news-worthy?)
Anyway good for him. If he was a girl no one would care. I agree with this sentiment: Why is this news? Let's look at it logically. A professional athlete is announcing he is gay. That's it. President Obama just said in his interview a few minutes ago that a man should be judged on his character and not his sexual preference. And yet, the media is doing the opposite. We are calling this guy a "hero" based on his sexual preference and not his character. Only after he said he was gay did anyone look into his character. He's not a hero, but he's making a step that'll make it easier for other gay athletes, if they want to. It's important because sports are embedded with such a macho culture, that many never thought it would happen (and some idiots still think it's impossible for athletes to be gay.)
What he did was not noteworthy in itself, but it's a reflection of society. To me, the proper response should be "I wish we lived in a society where this wasn't shocking or inappropriate to anyone."
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On April 30 2013 23:31 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 23:08 marvellosity wrote:On April 30 2013 22:56 Klondikebar wrote:On April 30 2013 22:37 Shiragaku wrote:On April 30 2013 22:20 Yuljan wrote: Honestly I dont know why any heterosexual guy would insult gay guys. They are fucking great. Every gay guy means more girls left for the rest of us. If you ever need a good wingman, give me a call. On April 30 2013 22:32 Klondikebar wrote:On April 30 2013 22:22 SwedishHero wrote: I wonder in which lockerroom he will change and which showerroom he will shower in. And this is not a joke. Its not like Iam allowed to shower with girls. And I wouldnt want gay men to shower in the same showerroom as me. And I have absolutely nothing against gay men/women. Well given that he's always used his team's locker room, he's going to keep using it. Several players have already said that being paranoid about changing around a gay dude is stupid. Being attracted to men myself, I learned very easily how to learn how to deal with situations such as this. In a locker room, there is nothing that is meant to be sexual, yes there are other naked guys but you do not feel arousal because the purpose is to change, not to relieve sexual tension. When you are naked with another guy in bed or looking at porn, you feel arousal because that is exactly what you are suppose to do in such a situation. Also, please treat us as men, not as women. Also gaydar is more effective than people think. It's rare for me to be attracted to a straight guy without a lot of alcohol or unless they're intentionally leading me on. I could change in a locker room full of straight guys without batting an eye. Rare for you, not necessarily rare for plenty of other gay guys though. Not a single one of my gay friends has ever hit on a straight dude unless the guy was deliberately trying to appear gay or in a gay bar. Oh marv, contrarian as always.
I found this post amusing and then I decided to read the rest of the chain. I'm glad your friends would never hit on another guy unless they knew they were gay beforehand; but, that certainly isn't true for everyone. Back when I was in University I got hit on several times by men. One time, some guy just gave me his card right outside the uni gym. Which was kind of creepy because I just worked out and got changed. I never seen the guy in my entire life either. Gay guys are certainly more forward over the last decade. In either case, I really don't care about changing in the same room as them.
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On May 01 2013 00:36 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 23:21 eburnsdaniel wrote: I'm happy for him now he can be himself and that he doesn't have to hide anything. Still, I wonder why homosexuality amongst male athletes seems to be lower than the general population? The media would like us to be believe athletes as a subset of the general population are no different and that there are hundreds or thousands of male athletes scared to come out but this doesn't pass the whiff test.
Why not? That's exactly why this is a story, he's no longer keeping it hidden. If most gay athletes felt comfortable doing that, this wouldn't be a story. Tying it in to hormones is just foolish. The other stupid part about the locker room discussion is that every professional sports locker room is filled with men and women (reporters, trainers, assistants, etc.) after games. It's not sexual at all. EDIT: Unless you're Magic Johnson. it's not sexual because you chose not to make it sexual, not because it isn't sexual in itself.
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On May 01 2013 00:31 nepeta wrote: What's with the showerophobia? If every gay or bi would corner straight men with a pulsing hard-on, or want to soap someone down for half an hour after every training... there might be a point. Point is, as long as people keep up the facade of being 100% straight and you haven't ever been bothered with that, thát might be the problem. This guy has been showering for all of his life with men who might very well be gay as well, but no-one ever bothered, isn't that a sign that being gay is all in the homophobe's head?
Have you ever showered with people you knew were gay/bi, or people you weren't fully familiar with in the sexual orientation department? Have you caught the plague yet? I haven't. And I've been showering with people I know to be gay, bi and heterosexual for years, and I'm sure quite many whom I don't. It doesn't mean we're tossing bars of soap at each others' feet, or dance the YMCA naked, it's just a reality of the country I'm living in, the sport I'm playing. I'm sure heterosexuals showering mixedly wouldn't lead to orgies or mass embarassment, despite what beavis and butthead cs would make you believe. It might even be a good thing to help people get over themselves. Sure, different countries and social groups have different showering habits, but not wanting to shower with gay people is rather embarassing. In my opinion at least.
So if you're against don't-ask-don't-tell, the logical consequence would be that you accept people with a different sexual orientation in every way you would accept people with different skin colour or BMI or WHATEVER. Normative American society is too victorian to even understand what you just said, sorry.
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On May 01 2013 00:38 catabowl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 00:32 Shikyo wrote: I don't see how this is news-worthy(note I see how this is news-worthy but I should rather say, I don't understand why this is news-worthy. Hmmm ... or rather, this should not be news-worthy?)
Anyway good for him. If he was a girl no one would care. I agree with this sentiment: Why is this news? Let's look at it logically. A professional athlete is announcing he is gay. That's it. President Obama just said in his interview a few minutes ago that a man should be judged on his character and not his sexual preference. And yet, the media is doing the opposite. We are calling this guy a "hero" based on his sexual preference and not his character. Only after he said he was gay did anyone look into his character.
Unless you've been living under a rock, you should know that gay people still get discriminated against. It takes a certain amount of courage to invite the insults and the taunting and the spotlight that comes from coming out of the closet. He's the first active athlete in the US with the courage to do so. Logically, firsts are very newsworthy. You are discussing it, right?
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United States22883 Posts
On May 01 2013 00:45 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 00:36 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 23:21 eburnsdaniel wrote: I'm happy for him now he can be himself and that he doesn't have to hide anything. Still, I wonder why homosexuality amongst male athletes seems to be lower than the general population? The media would like us to be believe athletes as a subset of the general population are no different and that there are hundreds or thousands of male athletes scared to come out but this doesn't pass the whiff test.
Why not? That's exactly why this is a story, he's no longer keeping it hidden. If most gay athletes felt comfortable doing that, this wouldn't be a story. Tying it in to hormones is just foolish. The other stupid part about the locker room discussion is that every professional sports locker room is filled with men and women (reporters, trainers, assistants, etc.) after games. It's not sexual at all. EDIT: Unless you're Magic Johnson. it's not sexual because you chose not to make it sexual, not because it isn't sexual in itself. I think you have it backwards.
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On May 01 2013 00:48 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 00:45 xM(Z wrote:On May 01 2013 00:36 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 23:21 eburnsdaniel wrote: I'm happy for him now he can be himself and that he doesn't have to hide anything. Still, I wonder why homosexuality amongst male athletes seems to be lower than the general population? The media would like us to be believe athletes as a subset of the general population are no different and that there are hundreds or thousands of male athletes scared to come out but this doesn't pass the whiff test.
Why not? That's exactly why this is a story, he's no longer keeping it hidden. If most gay athletes felt comfortable doing that, this wouldn't be a story. Tying it in to hormones is just foolish. The other stupid part about the locker room discussion is that every professional sports locker room is filled with men and women (reporters, trainers, assistants, etc.) after games. It's not sexual at all. EDIT: Unless you're Magic Johnson. it's not sexual because you chose not to make it sexual, not because it isn't sexual in itself. I think you have it backwards. how are naked bodies not sexual?
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The only reason naked bodies are sexual is because you are usually only naked when having sex, which has effects on society. Aren't there tribes in hotter regions who are basically always naked, and thus don't see it as sexual?
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United States22883 Posts
On May 01 2013 00:52 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 00:48 Jibba wrote:On May 01 2013 00:45 xM(Z wrote:On May 01 2013 00:36 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 23:21 eburnsdaniel wrote: I'm happy for him now he can be himself and that he doesn't have to hide anything. Still, I wonder why homosexuality amongst male athletes seems to be lower than the general population? The media would like us to be believe athletes as a subset of the general population are no different and that there are hundreds or thousands of male athletes scared to come out but this doesn't pass the whiff test.
Why not? That's exactly why this is a story, he's no longer keeping it hidden. If most gay athletes felt comfortable doing that, this wouldn't be a story. Tying it in to hormones is just foolish. The other stupid part about the locker room discussion is that every professional sports locker room is filled with men and women (reporters, trainers, assistants, etc.) after games. It's not sexual at all. EDIT: Unless you're Magic Johnson. it's not sexual because you chose not to make it sexual, not because it isn't sexual in itself. I think you have it backwards. how are naked bodies not sexual? Because they're not? Because being naked is the natural state of human beings? There is no inherent sexual-ness to people being naked. People being naked, wanting to have sex, is sexual.
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On May 01 2013 00:52 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 00:48 Jibba wrote:On May 01 2013 00:45 xM(Z wrote:On May 01 2013 00:36 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 23:21 eburnsdaniel wrote: I'm happy for him now he can be himself and that he doesn't have to hide anything. Still, I wonder why homosexuality amongst male athletes seems to be lower than the general population? The media would like us to be believe athletes as a subset of the general population are no different and that there are hundreds or thousands of male athletes scared to come out but this doesn't pass the whiff test.
Why not? That's exactly why this is a story, he's no longer keeping it hidden. If most gay athletes felt comfortable doing that, this wouldn't be a story. Tying it in to hormones is just foolish. The other stupid part about the locker room discussion is that every professional sports locker room is filled with men and women (reporters, trainers, assistants, etc.) after games. It's not sexual at all. EDIT: Unless you're Magic Johnson. it's not sexual because you chose not to make it sexual, not because it isn't sexual in itself. I think you have it backwards. how are naked bodies not sexual?
You are implying that women reporters and assistants get naked in the locker room. It is a quite different situation if both are naked.
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Wait, there are women reporters and assistants in professional sports locker rooms? In that case the whole problem really should not be a problem at all. I have no experience with professional sports, i think everyone basically just pictures his locker room from school and assumes it is a similar situation for professional athletes. If you are comfortable being naked around random women then you shouldn't care about random gay people either.
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On May 01 2013 00:54 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 00:52 xM(Z wrote:On May 01 2013 00:48 Jibba wrote:On May 01 2013 00:45 xM(Z wrote:On May 01 2013 00:36 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 23:21 eburnsdaniel wrote: I'm happy for him now he can be himself and that he doesn't have to hide anything. Still, I wonder why homosexuality amongst male athletes seems to be lower than the general population? The media would like us to be believe athletes as a subset of the general population are no different and that there are hundreds or thousands of male athletes scared to come out but this doesn't pass the whiff test.
Why not? That's exactly why this is a story, he's no longer keeping it hidden. If most gay athletes felt comfortable doing that, this wouldn't be a story. Tying it in to hormones is just foolish. The other stupid part about the locker room discussion is that every professional sports locker room is filled with men and women (reporters, trainers, assistants, etc.) after games. It's not sexual at all. EDIT: Unless you're Magic Johnson. it's not sexual because you chose not to make it sexual, not because it isn't sexual in itself. I think you have it backwards. how are naked bodies not sexual? Because they're not? Because being naked is the natural state of human beings? There is no inherent sexual-ness to people being naked. People being naked, wanting to have sex, is sexual.
Well, I for one see your point, but at the same time I would argue that whether or not a naked body in and of itself is sexual is something that people will tend to see differently because of differences in culture, upbringing, potential stigma and other factors of the social nature.
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there is nothing 'natural' about being naked. i did not grew up naked, i do not not find it natural. what is natural for others it's not natural for me. involution is not natural. if you want to go with the 'natural way', you should also respect the mating cycle, not fuck whenever you feel like it.
@Catch]22 - people were talking about showerophobia ( ) , i did not differentiate between naked males/females because it's irrelevant to my point.
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United States40776 Posts
On May 01 2013 00:52 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 00:48 Jibba wrote:On May 01 2013 00:45 xM(Z wrote:On May 01 2013 00:36 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 23:21 eburnsdaniel wrote: I'm happy for him now he can be himself and that he doesn't have to hide anything. Still, I wonder why homosexuality amongst male athletes seems to be lower than the general population? The media would like us to be believe athletes as a subset of the general population are no different and that there are hundreds or thousands of male athletes scared to come out but this doesn't pass the whiff test.
Why not? That's exactly why this is a story, he's no longer keeping it hidden. If most gay athletes felt comfortable doing that, this wouldn't be a story. Tying it in to hormones is just foolish. The other stupid part about the locker room discussion is that every professional sports locker room is filled with men and women (reporters, trainers, assistants, etc.) after games. It's not sexual at all. EDIT: Unless you're Magic Johnson. it's not sexual because you chose not to make it sexual, not because it isn't sexual in itself. I think you have it backwards. how are naked bodies not sexual? Most people realise fairly early on that everyone is naked under their clothes. The conceptual awareness that other people have genitals ceases to be erotic after the first few wanks. It's the same principle.
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On May 01 2013 00:09 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:33 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 11:56 Sermokala wrote: I was quite disipointed by this. Jackie Robinson (first black athlete in US sports with white people) was a superstar in the prime of his career when he strove forward race relations in this nation. He was spat on and insulted by every other team and the fans across the nation.
This guy is going to cash in greatly, never have to play another game again in his life, received a phone call from the president, and will be able to push out of the business anyone who says an odd word to him now, all from day 1 of coming out at the end of anything public that he had to do in his life.
But of course they're the same thing for civil rights in america.
Edit: I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he obviously made the best decision he could ever have made. Being in the NBA for that long takes a ton of talent, work ethic, and skill. I just don't see the real difference between him and the other retired openly gay professional athletes that have come out over the years when their career was over. The guy simply isn't an active Athlete in a major american sport. First, this is like saying you're disappointed because "Rosa Parks was just a nobody. Who cares how she was treated on a bus?" I think it's actually more critical that Collins is a non-superstar athlete because it'll show more about people's character in how they treat him. If he were a superstar, people acquiesce to him no matter what, even hiding their homophobia. Because he's not a great player nor is he essential, people's true feelings are more likely to be revealed. I've heard people talk about him "cashing in" on a book deal or something. He's made $30+ million playing basketball and he'll make 1.35m if he gets another year. He may be doing it for publicity, but I don't think money is his motivation. The difference is that he's not retired. His career might be dwindling, but he has the chance to play for another year or two and make millions more dollars. It's less of a risk than someone in their prime coming out, but that's exactly why they don't. To date, I think this is the biggest risk a gay athlete has ever taken in coming out publicly. It might not be big enough for your liking, but your liking kind of sucks. Are you high? "peoples true feelings might be revealed"? Anyone that talks anything bad about this guy is going to be instantly hounded by everyone. This isn't some rosa parks "gee I might die from sitting in the front of the bus" this is some guy whos at the end of his career coming out because hes got nothing to lose and a ton to gain from it. Nike has said they have a large deal waiting for the first guy coming out and his net worth just exploded if he can brand him self as the "first openly gay active athlete in US major mens sports history. Even if he isn't that thing hes still going to be wildly celebrated for some reason. There is literally no risk to this guy coming out and you are completely mad if you think there is. No reason to insult me because I'm not on the same bandwagon of hope you do.
You sound like some sheltered, rich, white guy that doesn't understand how the real world works. Do you also think that racism doesn't exist anymore? That women are actually treated equal to men in most aspects of society? That minority children don't suffer disproportionately from poverty?
No risk for a public figure coming out as openly homosexual? You need to get out more.
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On May 01 2013 00:32 Shikyo wrote: I don't see how this is news-worthy(note I see how this is news-worthy but I should rather say, I don't understand why this is news-worthy. Hmmm ... or rather, this should not be news-worthy?)
Anyway good for him. If he was a girl no one would care. I agree. I don't know why everyone is acting like this is something groundbreaking. People don't care if someone is gay or not anymore and i'm willing to bet gays don't even care if so and so comes out, they are fine with who they are and someone "famous" (I put this in quotes cuz I don't know who the fuck this guy is) isn't going to change anything.
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United States22883 Posts
On May 01 2013 01:19 Yergidy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 00:32 Shikyo wrote: I don't see how this is news-worthy(note I see how this is news-worthy but I should rather say, I don't understand why this is news-worthy. Hmmm ... or rather, this should not be news-worthy?)
Anyway good for him. If he was a girl no one would care. I agree. I don't know why everyone is acting like this is something groundbreaking. People don't care if someone is gay or not anymore and i'm willing to bet gays don't even care if so and so comes out, they are fine with who they are and someone "famous" (I put this in quotes cuz I don't know who the fuck this guy is) isn't going to change anything.
Grey and red still ban same-sex marriage. Dark red bans same-sex civil unions as well.
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On May 01 2013 01:19 Yergidy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 00:32 Shikyo wrote: I don't see how this is news-worthy(note I see how this is news-worthy but I should rather say, I don't understand why this is news-worthy. Hmmm ... or rather, this should not be news-worthy?)
Anyway good for him. If he was a girl no one would care. I agree. I don't know why everyone is acting like this is something groundbreaking. People don't care if someone is gay or not anymore and i'm willing to bet gays don't even care if so and so comes out, they are fine with who they are and someone "famous" (I put this in quotes cuz I don't know who the fuck this guy is) isn't going to change anything.
You really don't think people care if someone is gay or not? Tell that to every gay guy who gets shitty service at a restaurant or gets funny looks from people for holding hands with their partner.
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On May 01 2013 01:25 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 01:19 Yergidy wrote:On May 01 2013 00:32 Shikyo wrote: I don't see how this is news-worthy(note I see how this is news-worthy but I should rather say, I don't understand why this is news-worthy. Hmmm ... or rather, this should not be news-worthy?)
Anyway good for him. If he was a girl no one would care. I agree. I don't know why everyone is acting like this is something groundbreaking. People don't care if someone is gay or not anymore and i'm willing to bet gays don't even care if so and so comes out, they are fine with who they are and someone "famous" (I put this in quotes cuz I don't know who the fuck this guy is) isn't going to change anything. Grey and red still ban same-sex marriage. Dark red bans same-sex civil unions as well. That is a whole different matter entirely. Just because someone doesn't agree with same sex marriage doesn't mean they are anti gay.... Most people are live and let live. Of course there are going to be some people who absolutely despise gays (I may make the assumption they may be gay themselves) but you always have some people who are in the fringes of the bell curve.
On May 01 2013 01:26 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 01:19 Yergidy wrote:On May 01 2013 00:32 Shikyo wrote: I don't see how this is news-worthy(note I see how this is news-worthy but I should rather say, I don't understand why this is news-worthy. Hmmm ... or rather, this should not be news-worthy?)
Anyway good for him. If he was a girl no one would care. I agree. I don't know why everyone is acting like this is something groundbreaking. People don't care if someone is gay or not anymore and i'm willing to bet gays don't even care if so and so comes out, they are fine with who they are and someone "famous" (I put this in quotes cuz I don't know who the fuck this guy is) isn't going to change anything. You really don't think people care if someone is gay or not? Tell that to every gay guy who gets shitty service at a restaurant or gets funny looks from people for holding hands with their partner.
People who let this bother them need to learn not to give a fuck about what some people think of them. Sure it happens sometimes, but I am willing to bet that it isn't the majority of the time.
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On May 01 2013 01:30 Yergidy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 01:25 Jibba wrote:On May 01 2013 01:19 Yergidy wrote:On May 01 2013 00:32 Shikyo wrote: I don't see how this is news-worthy(note I see how this is news-worthy but I should rather say, I don't understand why this is news-worthy. Hmmm ... or rather, this should not be news-worthy?)
Anyway good for him. If he was a girl no one would care. I agree. I don't know why everyone is acting like this is something groundbreaking. People don't care if someone is gay or not anymore and i'm willing to bet gays don't even care if so and so comes out, they are fine with who they are and someone "famous" (I put this in quotes cuz I don't know who the fuck this guy is) isn't going to change anything. Grey and red still ban same-sex marriage. Dark red bans same-sex civil unions as well. That is a whole different matter entirely. Just because someone doesn't agree with same sex marriage doesn't mean they are anti gay.... Most people are live and let live. Of course there are going to be some people who absolutely despise gays (I may make the assumption they may be gay themselves) but you always have some people who are in the fringes of the bell curve.
"Live and let live" except to allow them to live with equal rights to themselves, because they are different... oh wait....
I love how easily people can write off what should be a human rights violation. Your post underscores the problem perfectly. Marriage is a civil right. To deny it to people, is to put yourself against them.
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On May 01 2013 01:19 Yergidy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 00:32 Shikyo wrote: I don't see how this is news-worthy(note I see how this is news-worthy but I should rather say, I don't understand why this is news-worthy. Hmmm ... or rather, this should not be news-worthy?)
Anyway good for him. If he was a girl no one would care. I agree. I don't know why everyone is acting like this is something groundbreaking. People don't care if someone is gay or not anymore and i'm willing to bet gays don't even care if so and so comes out, they are fine with who they are and someone "famous" (I put this in quotes cuz I don't know who the fuck this guy is) isn't going to change anything.
Gays are still being discriminated against in your own country as a matter of policy. Have you even thought of the reasons why this man is the first one ever? It is because being gay can still cause pretty major problems. Homophobia is alive and well, and if you think any differently you are a fool, sir.
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On May 01 2013 01:11 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 00:52 xM(Z wrote:On May 01 2013 00:48 Jibba wrote:On May 01 2013 00:45 xM(Z wrote:On May 01 2013 00:36 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 23:21 eburnsdaniel wrote: I'm happy for him now he can be himself and that he doesn't have to hide anything. Still, I wonder why homosexuality amongst male athletes seems to be lower than the general population? The media would like us to be believe athletes as a subset of the general population are no different and that there are hundreds or thousands of male athletes scared to come out but this doesn't pass the whiff test.
Why not? That's exactly why this is a story, he's no longer keeping it hidden. If most gay athletes felt comfortable doing that, this wouldn't be a story. Tying it in to hormones is just foolish. The other stupid part about the locker room discussion is that every professional sports locker room is filled with men and women (reporters, trainers, assistants, etc.) after games. It's not sexual at all. EDIT: Unless you're Magic Johnson. it's not sexual because you chose not to make it sexual, not because it isn't sexual in itself. I think you have it backwards. how are naked bodies not sexual? Most people realise fairly early on that everyone is naked under their clothes. The conceptual awareness that other people have genitals ceases to be erotic after the first few wanks. It's the same principle. it's not that simple, you need context here else you are only talking about habits, socially driven habits with no other value then the one you're attributing to them. changing ones habit has nothing to do with right/wrong, the natural way or ... the highway. forced conformism, brought on by change, is not freedom/happiness even if things appear to be more in the right then they used to be.
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On May 01 2013 01:32 Kiss of Judas wrote:Show nested quote +Just because someone doesn't agree with same sex marriage doesn't mean they are anti gay... You are walking into a slaughter. Lol. Perhaps I should have worded that better. What I mean will be better stated in an example: Most anti gay rights activists are Christians, there are some Christians who are anti-gay, they don't like being around gays, etc. but the majority of Christians could care less what 2 guys or 2 girls do in a private dwelling or being around someone who is gay. That's no ones business but those 2 people.
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Brave man, 12 year pro, that just happens to be gay. Should not deserve drama but i supose in NA this is a big thing, it never stops amazing me that a country of the brave and the free is in places still so small minded and discriminating.
Hope situations like these help others come out and make people more accepting of gay's.
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On May 01 2013 01:37 Kiss of Judas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 01:31 Focuspants wrote:On May 01 2013 01:30 Yergidy wrote:On May 01 2013 01:25 Jibba wrote:On May 01 2013 01:19 Yergidy wrote:On May 01 2013 00:32 Shikyo wrote: I don't see how this is news-worthy(note I see how this is news-worthy but I should rather say, I don't understand why this is news-worthy. Hmmm ... or rather, this should not be news-worthy?)
Anyway good for him. If he was a girl no one would care. I agree. I don't know why everyone is acting like this is something groundbreaking. People don't care if someone is gay or not anymore and i'm willing to bet gays don't even care if so and so comes out, they are fine with who they are and someone "famous" (I put this in quotes cuz I don't know who the fuck this guy is) isn't going to change anything. Grey and red still ban same-sex marriage. Dark red bans same-sex civil unions as well. That is a whole different matter entirely. Just because someone doesn't agree with same sex marriage doesn't mean they are anti gay.... Most people are live and let live. Of course there are going to be some people who absolutely despise gays (I may make the assumption they may be gay themselves) but you always have some people who are in the fringes of the bell curve. "Live and let live" except to allow them to live with equal rights to themselves, because they are different... oh wait.... I love how easily people can write off what should be a human rights violation. Your post underscores the problem perfectly. Marriage is a civil right. To deny it to people, is to put yourself against them. Marriage is a civil right for who? Monogamous straights and gays. Not polygamists. Not objectophiles. Definitely not pedophiles. They are all just TOO different. Self righteous enlightened tolerance has its limits you know.
So only monogamous people can marry? That means no one ever divorces right?
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On May 01 2013 01:37 Kiss of Judas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 01:31 Focuspants wrote:On May 01 2013 01:30 Yergidy wrote:On May 01 2013 01:25 Jibba wrote:On May 01 2013 01:19 Yergidy wrote:On May 01 2013 00:32 Shikyo wrote: I don't see how this is news-worthy(note I see how this is news-worthy but I should rather say, I don't understand why this is news-worthy. Hmmm ... or rather, this should not be news-worthy?)
Anyway good for him. If he was a girl no one would care. I agree. I don't know why everyone is acting like this is something groundbreaking. People don't care if someone is gay or not anymore and i'm willing to bet gays don't even care if so and so comes out, they are fine with who they are and someone "famous" (I put this in quotes cuz I don't know who the fuck this guy is) isn't going to change anything. Grey and red still ban same-sex marriage. Dark red bans same-sex civil unions as well. That is a whole different matter entirely. Just because someone doesn't agree with same sex marriage doesn't mean they are anti gay.... Most people are live and let live. Of course there are going to be some people who absolutely despise gays (I may make the assumption they may be gay themselves) but you always have some people who are in the fringes of the bell curve. "Live and let live" except to allow them to live with equal rights to themselves, because they are different... oh wait.... I love how easily people can write off what should be a human rights violation. Your post underscores the problem perfectly. Marriage is a civil right. To deny it to people, is to put yourself against them. Marriage is a civil right for who? Monogamous straights and gays. Not polygamists. Not objectophiles. Definitely not pedophiles. They are all just TOO different. Self righteous enlightened tolerance has its limits you know.
I am fairly open to legalised polygamous marriage, I don't think legal rights should be extended to objects, and I don't think children are able to consent to marriage. Pedophile marriage would be an odd thing indeed, children tend to age, so what would be the point?
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On April 30 2013 23:38 GraFx wrote: Why this is even news baffles me.
I wasn't aware gays coming out in professional sports was such a normal every day thing.
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I don't see why this even matters. Athletes should be judged on their competency, not their sexual orientation.
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On May 01 2013 01:43 a176 wrote:I wasn't aware gays coming out in professional sports was such a normal every day thing.
If i speak for myself here in the Netherlands it's rather common with the exception of Football.
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United States22883 Posts
On May 01 2013 01:38 Yergidy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 01:32 Kiss of Judas wrote:Just because someone doesn't agree with same sex marriage doesn't mean they are anti gay... You are walking into a slaughter. Lol. Perhaps I should have worded that better. What I mean will be better stated in an example: Most anti gay rights activists are Christians, there are some Christians who are anti-gay, they don't like being around gays, etc. but the majority of Christians could care less what 2 guys or 2 girls do in a private dwelling or being around someone who is gay. That's no ones business but those 2 people. Even assuming the argument that marriage is a religious institution, civil unions are also banned in those dark red states. Civil unions are not a religious institution.
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Just because someone doesn't agree with same sex marriage doesn't mean they are anti gay... If you don't agree with same sex marriage yes you are anti-gay in a way. You tolerate them doing their things but you don't want them to marry. You don't want them to do something others do because they are gay, so it's anti-gay. It's pretty simple but alot of people deny that. You might think lightly of it but "Oh... It's just too strange, they shouldn't marry. Marry has a meaning... (then talk about his retarded religious bullshit traditions)... A child is born from a man and a woman... (then adds another so-called religious fact about humanity)... But I'm not being homophobic or anything, they just shouldn't marry".
They are couples too. They just don't have the same rights as other couples because they can't marry. The whole shit in France was about our old and rotting religious community wanting to prevent gay couples from rights other couples have.
Our lives should never be controlled by religions. Marriage isn't religious anymore. It is an institution, most gays don't care about its religious sense. Most of them won't marry in a church, they want to be married legally by a mayor. They care about the rights it gives like right to have children, to adopt and also have different helps when you are married but mostly to be considered the same.
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On May 01 2013 01:30 Yergidy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 01:25 Jibba wrote:On May 01 2013 01:19 Yergidy wrote:On May 01 2013 00:32 Shikyo wrote: I don't see how this is news-worthy(note I see how this is news-worthy but I should rather say, I don't understand why this is news-worthy. Hmmm ... or rather, this should not be news-worthy?)
Anyway good for him. If he was a girl no one would care. I agree. I don't know why everyone is acting like this is something groundbreaking. People don't care if someone is gay or not anymore and i'm willing to bet gays don't even care if so and so comes out, they are fine with who they are and someone "famous" (I put this in quotes cuz I don't know who the fuck this guy is) isn't going to change anything. Grey and red still ban same-sex marriage. Dark red bans same-sex civil unions as well. That is a whole different matter entirely. Just because someone doesn't agree with same sex marriage doesn't mean they are anti gay.... Most people are live and let live. Of course there are going to be some people who absolutely despise gays (I may make the assumption they may be gay themselves) but you always have some people who are in the fringes of the bell curve. Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 01:26 Klondikebar wrote:On May 01 2013 01:19 Yergidy wrote:On May 01 2013 00:32 Shikyo wrote: I don't see how this is news-worthy(note I see how this is news-worthy but I should rather say, I don't understand why this is news-worthy. Hmmm ... or rather, this should not be news-worthy?)
Anyway good for him. If he was a girl no one would care. I agree. I don't know why everyone is acting like this is something groundbreaking. People don't care if someone is gay or not anymore and i'm willing to bet gays don't even care if so and so comes out, they are fine with who they are and someone "famous" (I put this in quotes cuz I don't know who the fuck this guy is) isn't going to change anything. You really don't think people care if someone is gay or not? Tell that to every gay guy who gets shitty service at a restaurant or gets funny looks from people for holding hands with their partner. People who let this bother them need to learn not to give a fuck about what some people think of them. Sure it happens sometimes, but I am willing to bet that it isn't the majority of the time.
Ah so we're going to trot out the old "suck it up" argument. When gays are being discriminated against and it bothers them it's just cause they're too sensitive. Careful there, your privilege is showing.
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I'm straight and have absolutely no problem showering with gays. I have a problem showering with obese people but that's a different matter.
It is however time to call some of the bullshit in this thread.
Gay men not being attracted to straight men as a rule - that should mean straight men aren't attracted to gay women and straight women aren't attracted to gay men too right? Yeah... I know what you're saying, but come on, really?
Nudity not being a sexual trigger - again, come on! Did we not grow up in the same society? Were you raised in a nudist colony?
I'd have no problem showering with women but that's down to confidence and being comfortable with the situation and it's definitely not the same case for everyone.
Don't disregard the problems so easily - it's not easy for everyone. Must be hell being [the only] gay, openly or not, showering after gym class in school. Wtf, whoever went through that really has my sympathies. I wouldn't have been ready for that experience in my developing years, no way.
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On May 01 2013 01:54 Acertos wrote:Show nested quote +Just because someone doesn't agree with same sex marriage doesn't mean they are anti gay... If you don't agree with same sex marriage yes you are anti-gay in a way. You tolerate them doing their things but you don't want them to marry. You don't want them to do something others do because they are gay, so it's anti-gay. It's pretty simple but alot of people deny that.
It's not that simple. I'm strictly against gay people getting married, because marriage has been formed to be a religious act in the first place and today still a huge part of it is religion (although the state has taken over the paper stuff). And if that religion mostly agrees on being against gay people, so be it, let them be. I'm all for allowing gay people to have a commitment that has the same rights as marriage, just gets called different to not step on the toes of christians. Because I believe in tolerating others and their beliefs as long as it does not hurt anyone.
So even though I would vote anywhere I can against same sex marriage, I'm not anti-gay in any way. It's not as simple as you put it.
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On May 01 2013 02:07 Cirqueenflex wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 01:54 Acertos wrote:Just because someone doesn't agree with same sex marriage doesn't mean they are anti gay... If you don't agree with same sex marriage yes you are anti-gay in a way. You tolerate them doing their things but you don't want them to marry. You don't want them to do something others do because they are gay, so it's anti-gay. It's pretty simple but alot of people deny that. It's not that simple. I'm strictly against gay people getting married, because marriage has been formed to be a religious act in the first place and today still a huge part of it is religion (although the state has taken over the paper stuff). And if that religion mostly agrees on being against gay people, so be it, let them be. I'm all for allowing gay people to have a commitment that has the same rights as marriage, just gets called different to not step on the toes of christians. Because I believe in tolerating others and their beliefs as long as it does not hurt anyone. So even though I would vote anywhere I can against same sex marriage, I'm not anti-gay in any way. It's not as simple as you put it.
It'd be awesome if people could even read like...2 posts above them to see that this point has already thoroughly been covered.
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Please, voting against same-sex marriage also means you are certain rights. I understand why you would want to vote against religious same-sex marriage but voting against civil marriage and still claim not to be anti-gay is stretching it.
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On May 01 2013 02:07 Cirqueenflex wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 01:54 Acertos wrote:Just because someone doesn't agree with same sex marriage doesn't mean they are anti gay... If you don't agree with same sex marriage yes you are anti-gay in a way. You tolerate them doing their things but you don't want them to marry. You don't want them to do something others do because they are gay, so it's anti-gay. It's pretty simple but alot of people deny that. It's not that simple. I'm strictly against gay people getting married, because marriage has been formed to be a religious act in the first place and today still a huge part of it is religion (although the state has taken over the paper stuff). And if that religion mostly agrees on being against gay people, so be it, let them be. I'm all for allowing gay people to have a commitment that has the same rights as marriage, just gets called different to not step on the toes of christians. Because I believe in tolerating others and their beliefs as long as it does not hurt anyone. So even though I would vote anywhere I can against same sex marriage, I'm not anti-gay in any way. It's not as simple as you put it.
Your tolerance of intolerance actually does hurt others. Nobody wants to civil union anyone, they want to marry.
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On May 01 2013 02:10 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 02:07 Cirqueenflex wrote:On May 01 2013 01:54 Acertos wrote:Just because someone doesn't agree with same sex marriage doesn't mean they are anti gay... If you don't agree with same sex marriage yes you are anti-gay in a way. You tolerate them doing their things but you don't want them to marry. You don't want them to do something others do because they are gay, so it's anti-gay. It's pretty simple but alot of people deny that. It's not that simple. I'm strictly against gay people getting married, because marriage has been formed to be a religious act in the first place and today still a huge part of it is religion (although the state has taken over the paper stuff). And if that religion mostly agrees on being against gay people, so be it, let them be. I'm all for allowing gay people to have a commitment that has the same rights as marriage, just gets called different to not step on the toes of christians. Because I believe in tolerating others and their beliefs as long as it does not hurt anyone. So even though I would vote anywhere I can against same sex marriage, I'm not anti-gay in any way. It's not as simple as you put it. It'd be awesome if people could even read like...2 posts above them to see that this point has already thoroughly been covered.
sorry, I spaced out on those 5 posts. My bad
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On May 01 2013 02:07 Cirqueenflex wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 01:54 Acertos wrote:Just because someone doesn't agree with same sex marriage doesn't mean they are anti gay... If you don't agree with same sex marriage yes you are anti-gay in a way. You tolerate them doing their things but you don't want them to marry. You don't want them to do something others do because they are gay, so it's anti-gay. It's pretty simple but alot of people deny that. It's not that simple. I'm strictly against gay people getting married, because marriage has been formed to be a religious act in the first place and today still a huge part of it is religion (although the state has taken over the paper stuff).
You need to do a little reading. Marriage was not formed as a religious act. It predates your religion. By a long while. Religion adopted it, and is now trying to claim a monopoly on it.
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On May 01 2013 02:01 Thrill wrote: I'm straight and have absolutely no problem showering with gays. I have a problem showering with obese people but that's a different matter.
It is however time to call some of the bullshit in this thread.
Gay men not being attracted to straight men as a rule - that should mean straight men aren't attracted to gay women and straight women aren't attracted to gay men too right? Yeah... I know what you're saying, but come on, really?
Nudity not being a sexual trigger - again, come on! Did we not grow up in the same society? Were you raised in a nudist colony?
I'd have no problem showering with women but that's down to confidence and being comfortable with the situation and it's definitely not the same case for everyone.
Don't disregard the problems so easily - it's not easy for everyone. Must be hell being [the only] gay, openly or not, showering after gym class in school. Wtf, whoever went through that really has my sympathies. I wouldn't have been ready for that experience in my developing years, no way. Hmm... Having played in alot of clubs in diferent sports, I took my shower with a gay for like 2 years (we were both 12 or something and played rugby).
A little interesting story about this gay friend of mine. I knew him since I was 5 and he was always womanish. Now we are both 18 and he only admitted he was gay like 1 year ago so I completely agree with you, it is really hard to live and admit it. His father is a mason and a volunteering basketball trainor. The type of people who aren't open-minded, proud and macho because he fucked with a bunch of stupid chicks from his village. So my friend told me that his father tried to make him meet girls and stuff but he instead of going out with them talked about "girly" things, he just wasn't attracted to them. Now you can't say it is easy to live with it, the guy had some serious arguments with his father and got shitted on by a ton of people after he admitted it. In his family only his mother supported him, what a bunch of retards. In the country-side where we both lived, people either shit on gays or don't say anything when others do. The mentalities are just awful in the older generation and the worsts transmitted it to their children.
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On May 01 2013 02:26 Acertos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 02:01 Thrill wrote: I'm straight and have absolutely no problem showering with gays. I have a problem showering with obese people but that's a different matter.
It is however time to call some of the bullshit in this thread.
Gay men not being attracted to straight men as a rule - that should mean straight men aren't attracted to gay women and straight women aren't attracted to gay men too right? Yeah... I know what you're saying, but come on, really?
Nudity not being a sexual trigger - again, come on! Did we not grow up in the same society? Were you raised in a nudist colony?
I'd have no problem showering with women but that's down to confidence and being comfortable with the situation and it's definitely not the same case for everyone.
Don't disregard the problems so easily - it's not easy for everyone. Must be hell being [the only] gay, openly or not, showering after gym class in school. Wtf, whoever went through that really has my sympathies. I wouldn't have been ready for that experience in my developing years, no way. Hmm... Having played in alot of clubs in diferent sports, I took my shower with a gay for like 2 years (we were both 12 or something and played rugby). A little interesting story about this gay friend of mine. I knew him since I was 5 and he was always womanish. Now we are both 18 and he only admitted he was gay like 1 year ago so I completely agree with you, it is really hard to live and admit it. His father is a mason and a volunteering basketball trainor. The type of people who aren't open-minded, proud and macho because he fucked with a bunch of stupid chicks from his village. So my friend told me that his father tried to make him meet girls and stuff but he instead of going out with them talked about "girly" things, he just wasn't attracted to them. Now you can't say it is easy to live with it, the guy had some serious arguments with his father and got shitted on by a ton of people after he admitted it. In his family only his mother supported him, what a bunch of retards. In the country-side where we both lived, people either shit on gays or don't say anything when others do. The mentalities are just awful in the older generation and the worsts transmitted it to their children.
There's this stereotype that Europe is tolerant and the US is homophobic. But the truth is that the difference between generations or urban/non-urban communities is much larger than the average difference between any two western countries.
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On April 30 2013 17:53 Xapti wrote:Show nested quote +Chris Broussard: I believe that’s walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ. So I would not characterize that person as a Christian because I don’t think the Bible would characterize him as a Christian. He's probably breaking a lot of laws written in the bible himself, he just probably wasn't paying enough attention to them (wearing mixed fibers, just to state one).
Lol I always bring this up when discussing religion and homosexuality. I always ask people why they don't protest mixed fabrics instead.
On May 01 2013 02:07 Cirqueenflex wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 01:54 Acertos wrote:Just because someone doesn't agree with same sex marriage doesn't mean they are anti gay... If you don't agree with same sex marriage yes you are anti-gay in a way. You tolerate them doing their things but you don't want them to marry. You don't want them to do something others do because they are gay, so it's anti-gay. It's pretty simple but alot of people deny that. It's not that simple. I'm strictly against gay people getting married, because marriage has been formed to be a religious act in the first place and today still a huge part of it is religion (although the state has taken over the paper stuff). And if that religion mostly agrees on being against gay people, so be it, let them be. I'm all for allowing gay people to have a commitment that has the same rights as marriage, just gets called different to not step on the toes of christians. Because I believe in tolerating others and their beliefs as long as it does not hurt anyone. So even though I would vote anywhere I can against same sex marriage, I'm not anti-gay in any way. It's not as simple as you put it.
Do you think people who wear mixed fabrics are going to the same place as homosexuals?
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When will we legalize incest marriage in Western countries? Brother and sister getting married makes more sense than gay marriage, because at least they can have their own babies. If they are both adults, with the ability to consent then why not?
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On May 01 2013 03:20 karpotoss wrote: When will we legalize incest marriage in Western countries? Brother and sister getting married makes more sense than gay marriage, because at least they can have their own babies. If they are both adults, with the ability to consent then why not?
As far as I'm concerned encouraging incest procreation is like encouraging child abuse. What the fuck does this have to do with gay marriage?
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On May 01 2013 03:20 karpotoss wrote: When will we legalize incest marriage in Western countries? Brother and sister getting married makes more sense than gay marriage, because at least they can have their own babies. If they are both adults, with the ability to consent then why not?
Reduced fertility both in litter size and sperm viability Increased genetic disorders Fluctuating facial asymmetry Lower birth rate Higher infant mortality Slower growth rate Smaller adult size Loss of immune system function
-wiki
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i dont get why they have to openly say it ... i really NOT care who any sport star has sex with, women men dogs ... why is this so importent for everyone like "oh good" or "oh bad" ... only for fangirls perhaps who are sad now ? perhaps someone can explain me why its so importent for everyone who fucks who i like to know "is he a good player" then i like him, what he does in bed doesnt care me ANYTHING
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On May 01 2013 03:30 CoR wrote:i dont get why they have to openly say it ... i really NOT care who any sport star has sex with, women men dogs ... why is this so importent for everyone like "oh good" or "oh bad" ... only for fangirls perhaps who are sad now ? perhaps someone can explain me why its so importent for everyone who fucks who i like to know "is he a good player" then i like him, what he does in bed doesnt care me ANYTHING
There is still a lot of homophobia within the sports world and for someone to come out openly is going to bring that person a lot of heat and backlash, but it is a step forward in the acceptance of gays in the sports community. That's why it is news.
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I feel like this entire thing is detrimental. I don't know why someone coming out has to be a deal. The best thing that could happen for the LGBT movement is for it to stop being such a hyped up freaking thing. Someone should be able to come out without hours and hours of news coverage and their face plastered everywhere. If anything this is going to stop any other players from coming out because they fear their face being plastered across ESPN and being labelled as an activist and shit. I'm sure the thing these guys and girls want most is for them to be able to be thought of as anyone else, that it's not a big deal if they're gay or not and for the world to fucking move on.
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I like how this no-name scrub on the tail-end of his career just now decides to reveal he's gay.. talk about cashing in. Its not as if this is going to change anyone's opinions about homosexuality either - that will only happen if a big-name player with fans comes out. This is just a chance for the media and the NBA to pat themselves on the back for how "progressive" they are.
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On May 01 2013 03:30 CoR wrote:i dont get why they have to openly say it ... i really NOT care who any sport star has sex with, women men dogs ... why is this so importent for everyone like "oh good" or "oh bad" ... only for fangirls perhaps who are sad now ? perhaps someone can explain me why its so importent for everyone who fucks who i like to know "is he a good player" then i like him, what he does in bed doesnt care me ANYTHING Ahh, but this is the crux of the issue. A large number of US citizens think it their business what other citizens do in the privacy of their bedrooms and homes, and these very same people fight politically to have these people marginalized in a legal sense. There are substantial portions of the world population that actively fight to keep homosexuals and trans folk from enjoying the same rights as heterosexuals, and if tolerance doesn't speak up, intolerance will.
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On May 01 2013 03:28 decafchicken wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 03:20 karpotoss wrote: When will we legalize incest marriage in Western countries? Brother and sister getting married makes more sense than gay marriage, because at least they can have their own babies. If they are both adults, with the ability to consent then why not? Reduced fertility both in litter size and sperm viability Increased genetic disorders Fluctuating facial asymmetry Lower birth rate Higher infant mortality Slower growth rate Smaller adult size Loss of immune system function -wiki
You forgot:
Awkward family reunions.
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glad to see things like this are moving forward, hell, its about time
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Is it impossible he did it to gain publicity? After saying you are gay even the first lady congratulates you.
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On May 01 2013 03:27 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 03:20 karpotoss wrote: When will we legalize incest marriage in Western countries? Brother and sister getting married makes more sense than gay marriage, because at least they can have their own babies. If they are both adults, with the ability to consent then why not? As far as I'm concerned encouraging incest procreation is like encouraging child abuse. What the fuck does this have to do with gay marriage? What if they only engage in oral and anal intercourse. Then should they be allowed to get married?
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On May 01 2013 03:36 Fruscainte wrote: I feel like this entire thing is detrimental. I don't know why someone coming out has to be a deal. The best thing that could happen for the LGBT movement is for it to stop being such a hyped up freaking thing. Someone should be able to come out without hours and hours of news coverage and their face plastered everywhere. If anything this is going to stop any other players from coming out because they fear their face being plastered across ESPN and being labelled as an activist and shit. I'm sure the thing these guys and girls want most is for them to be able to be thought of as anyone else, that it's not a big deal if they're gay or not and for the world to fucking move on.
Seems unlikely. I think most gay players didn't come out because they feared it might hurt their career, damage their relationship with their teammates or coach, or lead to abuse by fans.
I doubt any of them was thinking: "Hey, if only I didn't have to deal with annoying activist media praising me, I would have come out already."
I mean, maybe some would be annoyed by the publicity, but that's a very minor issue compared to everything else. Knowing that they can at least expect support from their team if some people decide to be a dick about it is huge.
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I thought this was going to be a story about 40 years ago. 2013, wow.
Good for him. Also FLOTUS sounds like an immune disorder.
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On May 01 2013 02:07 Cirqueenflex wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 01:54 Acertos wrote:Just because someone doesn't agree with same sex marriage doesn't mean they are anti gay... If you don't agree with same sex marriage yes you are anti-gay in a way. You tolerate them doing their things but you don't want them to marry. You don't want them to do something others do because they are gay, so it's anti-gay. It's pretty simple but alot of people deny that. It's not that simple. I'm strictly against gay people getting married, because marriage has been formed to be a religious act in the first place and today still a huge part of it is religion (although the state has taken over the paper stuff). And if that religion mostly agrees on being against gay people, so be it, let them be. I'm all for allowing gay people to have a commitment that has the same rights as marriage, just gets called different to not step on the toes of christians. Because I believe in tolerating others and their beliefs as long as it does not hurt anyone. So even though I would vote anywhere I can against same sex marriage, I'm not anti-gay in any way. It's not as simple as you put it.
Actually it is pretty simple.
Most reasonable people are okay that gay do not have access to a RELIGIOUS marriage. Going to the church, getting married by a priest etc. Church is a personal business and if in their rules its only a woman and a man, then so be it.
However if you're against civil marriage for gays, the kind of marriage that gives you special rights (in regards to the law, taxes etc) then I'm sorry but you are anti-gay. Sure not totaly, but still, as soon as you decided gay people do not have the same legal rights as a straight person you are by definition not for equality (of rights).
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On May 01 2013 03:54 meadbert wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 03:27 kmillz wrote:On May 01 2013 03:20 karpotoss wrote: When will we legalize incest marriage in Western countries? Brother and sister getting married makes more sense than gay marriage, because at least they can have their own babies. If they are both adults, with the ability to consent then why not? As far as I'm concerned encouraging incest procreation is like encouraging child abuse. What the fuck does this have to do with gay marriage? What if they only engage in oral and anal intercourse. Then should they be allowed to get married?
Sure, why not?
edit: There are other ways to avoid making babies too, but I guess that's one solution
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Oh cool, I totally needed another reason to strongly dislike Chris Broussard. Good on Jason Collins. It's an absolute shame gay marriage is still illegal in many places in this country
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On April 30 2013 11:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 11:47 DannyJ wrote: Too bad he's essentially an absolute nobody. Yes making it in the NBA isn't like a challenge or anything. Don't worry about the armchair athletes who seemingly forget about how difficult it is for anyone to make a professional league : P you just have to be in the top like 0.01% of all active players.
On May 01 2013 03:20 karpotoss wrote: When will we legalize incest marriage in Western countries? Brother and sister getting married makes more sense than gay marriage, because at least they can have their own babies. If they are both adults, with the ability to consent then why not?
Might be one of the dumber posts I've ever read on TL... I don't think, however, it's to far up the list like the guy who asked how to download RAM way back.
I fail to see how incest and homosexuality are similar in any regard but I'm sure you'll inform me. We can have philosophical debates on incest as we can on marriage but as far as comparing them? You're in apples and oranges here.
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On May 01 2013 03:20 karpotoss wrote: When will we legalize incest marriage in Western countries? Brother and sister getting married makes more sense than gay marriage, because at least they can have their own babies. If they are both adults, with the ability to consent then why not?
I'm confused. Are you oblivious to the more serious ramifications of an incestuous relationship bearing children which isn't remotely comparable to a homosexual relationship, or are you that shallow to imply a homosexual relationship does have comparable ramifications?
Regardless, they're two fairly separate issues that can't be compared and have to be addressed individually.
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Earlier this year as well, Barack Obama became the first US President to support Marriage Equality. Well, first US President to be for both gay and straight marriage after having been against gay marriage. He evolved in this view as the political winds of change blew.
I'll be glad when all these shouts of "Brave" and "Courageous" die down in the media. I mean, how hard can it be when the President gives you a phone call just afterwards congratulating you. The opposition to the lifestyle has long since fallen out of favor in media (Lèse-majesté to say some person can't be gay, no matter what divisions on gay marriage sanctioning there exist) and there have been others in the pro sports world that announce after retirement. A step forward for the gay rights movement, a firm step, but can we save courageous for somebody doing the same in Iran (Imprisonment, Corporal Punishment, Execution) so as to leave the word with just a little meaning?
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On May 01 2013 04:09 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +Earlier this year as well, Barack Obama became the first US President to support Marriage Equality. Well, first US President to be for both gay and straight marriage after having been against gay marriage. He evolved in this view as the political winds of change blew. I'll be glad when all these shouts of "Brave" and "Courageous" die down in the media. I mean, how hard can it be when the President gives you a phone call just afterwards congratulating you. The opposition to the lifestyle has long since fallen out of favor in media (Lèse-majesté to say some person can't be gay, no matter what divisions on gay marriage sanctioning there exist) and there have been others in the pro sports world that announce after retirement. A step forward for the gay rights movement, a firm step, but can we save courageous for somebody doing the same in Iran (Imprisonment, Corporal Punishment, Execution) so as to leave the word with just a little meaning? We had a vote in North Carolina last year about this time about whether to amend the state constitution to ban gay marriage. I was REALLY hoping the President Obama would campaign against the measure because I think he would have swayed a lot of people. Unfortunately he waited until after the measure passed to support gay marriage so we are stuck with this unfortunate constitutional amendment.
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Haha Kobe is such a pro-tweeter.
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I didn't care who he had sex with before, and I especially don't care now. I'm so tired of people thinking who someone has sex with is important. I'm sure he is going to write a book, have a tv show, and be quoted after his career as "Having sex with more than 10,000 men"... Who cares?
Not only that, saying he is the first active gay US athlete is insulting, there have been lots before him... Martina Navratilova, Greg Louganis or Sheryl Swoopes.
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On May 01 2013 00:09 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:33 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 11:56 Sermokala wrote: I was quite disipointed by this. Jackie Robinson (first black athlete in US sports with white people) was a superstar in the prime of his career when he strove forward race relations in this nation. He was spat on and insulted by every other team and the fans across the nation.
This guy is going to cash in greatly, never have to play another game again in his life, received a phone call from the president, and will be able to push out of the business anyone who says an odd word to him now, all from day 1 of coming out at the end of anything public that he had to do in his life.
But of course they're the same thing for civil rights in america.
Edit: I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he obviously made the best decision he could ever have made. Being in the NBA for that long takes a ton of talent, work ethic, and skill. I just don't see the real difference between him and the other retired openly gay professional athletes that have come out over the years when their career was over. The guy simply isn't an active Athlete in a major american sport. First, this is like saying you're disappointed because "Rosa Parks was just a nobody. Who cares how she was treated on a bus?" I think it's actually more critical that Collins is a non-superstar athlete because it'll show more about people's character in how they treat him. If he were a superstar, people acquiesce to him no matter what, even hiding their homophobia. Because he's not a great player nor is he essential, people's true feelings are more likely to be revealed. I've heard people talk about him "cashing in" on a book deal or something. He's made $30+ million playing basketball and he'll make 1.35m if he gets another year. He may be doing it for publicity, but I don't think money is his motivation. The difference is that he's not retired. His career might be dwindling, but he has the chance to play for another year or two and make millions more dollars. It's less of a risk than someone in their prime coming out, but that's exactly why they don't. To date, I think this is the biggest risk a gay athlete has ever taken in coming out publicly. It might not be big enough for your liking, but your liking kind of sucks. Are you high? "peoples true feelings might be revealed"? Anyone that talks anything bad about this guy is going to be instantly hounded by everyone. This isn't some rosa parks "gee I might die from sitting in the front of the bus" this is some guy whos at the end of his career coming out because hes got nothing to lose and a ton to gain from it. Nike has said they have a large deal waiting for the first guy coming out and his net worth just exploded if he can brand him self as the "first openly gay active athlete in US major mens sports history. Even if he isn't that thing hes still going to be wildly celebrated for some reason. There is literally no risk to this guy coming out and you are completely mad if you think there is. No reason to insult me because I'm not on the same bandwagon of hope you do.
for someone who posts in a whole lot of sport threads, you're breathtakingly stupid and naive about the culture that surrounds sports.
He's not talking about morons like Chris Broussard, who got rightly fucking trashed for the idiotic comments he said.
He is talking about how a marginal player with controversial baggage like being gay can be seen as not being worth the trouble to keep on the roster. Kinda like how this dude (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Burke) mentioned on page one got shafted. Like how teams are now avoiding having Tebow even as the 3rd qb because of the shit that comes with him. Players who have a ton skill but quesitonable baggage or past get a pass so long as they are good. See: Vick, Pacman Jones, Leonard Little, etc etc etc.
There is way more risk for a marginal player making close to the league minimum at the end of his career than there is if someone like Lebron came out tomorrow. Way, way more. Teams can find someone to eat up 5-10 minutes a night who fans won't be screaming faggot at from the stands. This might come as a surprise since I don't believe you thought for more than two seconds when you posted, but post-retirement, athletes tend to have a bit of trouble with finding jobs and their finances, so yeah, being able to work an extra couple of years might just be nice.
The culture of sports is not inclusive for gays in any way. You can see it by the openly bigoted morons in this thread. You can see it by wonderful people such as yourself, who are fucking dismissing a thing that is going to be inspirational to tons of closeted people because you don't think it is serious enough because, thankfully, this fucking country has at least come far enough along that tweeting out bigoted shit has replaced lynchings as the preferred way to bring harm to a group of people you don't like.
There are thousands of players in the four major spots in the US, and outside of this, not one has come out while active.
At any point, while that shit was spewing forth from your brain to your fingers, did you stop and think why that is?
PLayers, who spend a majority of their careers on the road and only in the company of their teammates, actively lie about who they are, they likes, their spouse and all sorts of other shit because of the horrible culture that is pervasive in sports.
as for the cashing in, if a little financial incentive is necessary to break down the shitty fucking attitudes that surround this, then so fucking be it. It's not as if an athlete, gay or not, is going to be very marketable after he retires in a few years like this guy will. And even if it was, who fucking cares. I'd much rather live in a world where a dude takes a few bucks to enact change rather than one where he and so many others have to live secret lives so they don't hear shit from idiots
Jesus. If you're going to be a bigot, at least have the decency not to be goddamned stupid on top of it.
also, since it bears saying, if you are voting anything but yes for allowing gay marriage, you are anti gay and a bigot.
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Thanks for that QuanticHawk, I think a lot of people downplay just how homophobic the culture surrounding the big 4 is and has been.
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On May 01 2013 04:20 QuanticHawk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 00:09 Sermokala wrote:On April 30 2013 22:33 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 11:56 Sermokala wrote: I was quite disipointed by this. Jackie Robinson (first black athlete in US sports with white people) was a superstar in the prime of his career when he strove forward race relations in this nation. He was spat on and insulted by every other team and the fans across the nation.
This guy is going to cash in greatly, never have to play another game again in his life, received a phone call from the president, and will be able to push out of the business anyone who says an odd word to him now, all from day 1 of coming out at the end of anything public that he had to do in his life.
But of course they're the same thing for civil rights in america.
Edit: I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he obviously made the best decision he could ever have made. Being in the NBA for that long takes a ton of talent, work ethic, and skill. I just don't see the real difference between him and the other retired openly gay professional athletes that have come out over the years when their career was over. The guy simply isn't an active Athlete in a major american sport. First, this is like saying you're disappointed because "Rosa Parks was just a nobody. Who cares how she was treated on a bus?" I think it's actually more critical that Collins is a non-superstar athlete because it'll show more about people's character in how they treat him. If he were a superstar, people acquiesce to him no matter what, even hiding their homophobia. Because he's not a great player nor is he essential, people's true feelings are more likely to be revealed. I've heard people talk about him "cashing in" on a book deal or something. He's made $30+ million playing basketball and he'll make 1.35m if he gets another year. He may be doing it for publicity, but I don't think money is his motivation. The difference is that he's not retired. His career might be dwindling, but he has the chance to play for another year or two and make millions more dollars. It's less of a risk than someone in their prime coming out, but that's exactly why they don't. To date, I think this is the biggest risk a gay athlete has ever taken in coming out publicly. It might not be big enough for your liking, but your liking kind of sucks. Are you high? "peoples true feelings might be revealed"? Anyone that talks anything bad about this guy is going to be instantly hounded by everyone. This isn't some rosa parks "gee I might die from sitting in the front of the bus" this is some guy whos at the end of his career coming out because hes got nothing to lose and a ton to gain from it. Nike has said they have a large deal waiting for the first guy coming out and his net worth just exploded if he can brand him self as the "first openly gay active athlete in US major mens sports history. Even if he isn't that thing hes still going to be wildly celebrated for some reason. There is literally no risk to this guy coming out and you are completely mad if you think there is. No reason to insult me because I'm not on the same bandwagon of hope you do. for someone who posts in a whole lot of sport threads, you're breathtakingly stupid and naive about the culture that surrounds sports. He's not talking about morons like Chris Broussard, who got rightly fucking trashed for the idiotic comments he said. He is talking about how a marginal player with controversial baggage like being gay can be seen as not being worth the trouble to keep on the roster. Kinda like how this dude (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Burke) mentioned on page one got shafted. Like how teams are now avoiding having Tebow even as the 3rd qb because of the shit that comes with him. Players who have a ton skill but quesitonable baggage or past get a pass so long as they are good. See: Vick, Pacman Jones, Leonard Little, etc etc etc. There is way more risk for a marginal player making close to the league minimum at the end of his career than there is if someone like Lebron came out tomorrow. Way, way more. Teams can find someone to eat up 5-10 minutes a night who fans won't be screaming faggot at from the stands. This might come as a surprise since I don't believe you thought for more than two seconds when you posted, but post-retirement, athletes tend to have a bit of trouble with finding jobs and their finances, so yeah, being able to work an extra couple of years might just be nice. The culture of sports is not inclusive for gays in any way. You can see it by the openly bigoted morons in this thread. You can see it by wonderful people such as yourself, who are fucking dismissing a thing that is going to be inspirational to tons of closeted people because you don't think it is serious enough because, thankfully, this fucking country has at least come far enough along that tweeting out bigoted shit has replaced lynchings as the preferred way to bring harm to a group of people you don't like. There are thousands of players in the four major spots in the US, and outside of this, not one has come out while active. At any point, while that shit was spewing forth from your brain to your fingers, did you stop and think why that is? PLayers, who spend a majority of their careers on the road and only in the company of their teammates, actively lie about who they are, they likes, their spouse and all sorts of other shit because of the horrible culture that is pervasive in sports. as for the cashing in, if a little financial incentive is necessary to break down the shitty fucking attitudes that surround this, then so fucking be it. It's not as if an athlete, gay or not, is going to be very marketable after he retires in a few years like this guy will. And even if it was, who fucking cares. I'd much rather live in a world where a dude takes a few bucks to enact change rather than one where he and so many others have to live secret lives so they don't hear shit from idiots Jesus. If you're going to be a bigot, at least have the decency not to be goddamned stupid on top of it. also, since it bears saying, if you are voting anything but yes for allowing gay marriage, you are anti gay and a bigot.
The hammer falls ever harder the second Hawk begins posting. That was a pretty severe smashing.
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I'm kind of confused. QuanticHawk posted that they may need financial incentives, and that there is a financial risk for players nearing the end of their career and that they would want to play as long as possible.
But Jibba pointed out that he has made 30+ million dollars during his career, and that while he may be doing this public statement for publicity, cash is likely not the motivation. I tend to agree with Jibba here.
So I doubt that he had any financial concerns in coming out as gay. So it kind of leads me to believe that he's doing this at a period of his life where he doesn't have to worry about the repercussions; i.e. even if he is replaced by someone else, he'll still be okay.
- - -
I think there may be a legitimate analysis about his true reasons for coming out though. I think its clear that in America there is a changing attitude towards gays and gay marriage; and that as the years pass certain people who were "the first" to do something in an area like gay rights will be remembered and even idolized. If they can get over, or are unaffected by, the initial wave of homophobic remarks by the dwindling crowd of mostly religious people and bigots in general; then ultimately it is in their own best interest to come out, because in the end they are being congratulated and praised by the people who matter and those with "legitimacy" such as the president of the united states, the first lady, or Kobe among many others.
If you had a choice between coming out, and being demonized by a group of bigoted people, but also being praised by a growing majority in America, including people of influence, and potentially being seen as one of the first to spur positive moral change in professional sports for the historical record, I think its reasonable to say that most people would choose to come out (assuming finances were of no concern). Of course this would not be a good idea for players who are just starting, because their finances are still a concern.
So its not a stretch for me to think he may have done this for selfish reasons, considering he was well off financially as Jibba noted. But I really can't say for certain, he may have done this because he is genuinely the type of person who wants to inspire others. In the end its immaterial, so long as it helps people come out I suppose it doesn't matter too much.
Also a side note to quantichawk: When you say that anyone who votes no to allowing gay marriage is anti gay and a bigot, I think you are being extreme. There are many people who don't understand what gay marriage entails, and I have seen many forum arguments where people mistakenly believed that gay marriage implies that they will force religious people to abandon their religious beliefs and marry them as Christians. They are unaware that marriage has a secular context as well. So you should probably avoid saying those sorts of things, as it doesn't help anyone understand.
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I mean the financial incetive comment as far as that one dude's offhand remark about him doing it because Nike was offering a huge contract or whatever the hell he said.
Personally, knowing a few people who came out to my family and friends, I think it was him just wanting to feel comfortable in his own skin, which is hard to do when you're lying a lot about your life. And recognizing that as an athlete, even a crappy one, he is in a position drastically alter the discussion on gay rights in a country where you still may be openly discriminated against for being gay, where gay couples don't even have the same basic rights as hetero couples. Maybe being viewed as noble as you said helped, but like I feel with the financial incentive from nike, it's so minor I do not care.
if you havent read it, his story (in his own words with minimal editing) gives insight:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/magazine/news/20130429/jason-collins-gay-nba-player/
and yeah, re gay marriage, I recognize that a lot of people don't know that. However, I am of the opinon that if you care enough on that to vocalize your opinion or even vote without knowing that, you're stlll every bit as much of a moron as the dude who voted no because he just straight up hates gays.
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Forgive me if i go slightly of topic, but are you all familiar with "you didn't build that" statement made by a Obama? http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/you-didnt-build-that
Once upon a time he said something like this: "There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)
If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."
What does is have to do with anything about gay marriage? Not much I have to admit, but i don't like how after coming out you get to be a national hero, with congratulations from the first couple, and widespread applause from the media. On the other hand everyday business owners who employ people, pay taxes, and make Your country prosper get a middle finger from the US president with saying "nah, bro you do nothing" Quite a redefinion of values.
User was warned for this post
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1. He's not just keeping his beliefs to himself. He uses them to justify denying rights based on his religion that he ought not to deny. That makes him a shithead.
2. Also...quoting rules from the Bible while sitting there wearing mixed fabrics and cut hair also makes him a shithead.
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On May 01 2013 05:18 karpotoss wrote:Forgive me if i go slightly of topic, but are you all familiar with "you didn't build that" statement made by a Obama? http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/you-didnt-build-thatOnce upon a time he said something like this: "There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.) If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet." What does is have to do with anything about gay marriage? Not much I have to admit, but i don't like how after coming out you get to be a national hero, with congratulations from the first couple, and widespread applause from the media. On the other hand everyday business owners who employ people, pay taxes, and make Your country prosper get a middle finger from the US president with saying "nah, bro you do nothing" Quite a redefinion of values. lol. Seriously? Is Poland on like an 8 month news delay, or do you really have nothing better to justify your dislike for public displays of tolerance than pointing to an outdated piece of partisan politics?
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It can be purely selfishly motivated, this is still 100% a good thing. Why the fuck is the current precedent of having to stay in the closet throughout your career ok? Why do we not want role models for gay kids? Sure it may not matter to you, but being able to look out in the world and see successful gay people in all careers, including sports, is a huge deal for youth. Imagine not being able to date in public until you're 35-40 and your career is done, that's bull shit. Even now, he still can't even get married if he does have a partner. Is he a modern day Jackie Robinson? Not even close. But this is still a good thing and a step forward.
Calling someone greedy for coming out... goddamn. I guess he is greedy for waiting so long to do it. What a scrooge, wanting to get paid on equal footing as his straight counterparts.
edit: tldr hawk is right
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On May 01 2013 05:22 Klondikebar wrote:1. He's not just keeping his beliefs to himself. He uses them to justify denying rights based on his religion that he ought not to deny. That makes him a shithead. 2. Also...quoting rules from the Bible while sitting there wearing mixed fabrics and cut hair also makes him a shithead. So people who disagree with you should keep their beliefs to themselves? In this case he was explicitly asked by his employer about his religious beliefs, which he disclosed as part of his job to commentate. You are welcome to disagree with his religious beliefs, as I do, but that does not make him a "shithead." He did not justify the denying of any rights. Tolerance is a two way street. If we want others to be tolerant of us, we should begin with being tolerant of them.
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On May 01 2013 05:23 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 05:18 karpotoss wrote:Forgive me if i go slightly of topic, but are you all familiar with "you didn't build that" statement made by a Obama? http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/you-didnt-build-thatOnce upon a time he said something like this: "There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.) If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet." What does is have to do with anything about gay marriage? Not much I have to admit, but i don't like how after coming out you get to be a national hero, with congratulations from the first couple, and widespread applause from the media. On the other hand everyday business owners who employ people, pay taxes, and make Your country prosper get a middle finger from the US president with saying "nah, bro you do nothing" Quite a redefinion of values. lol. Seriously? Is Poland on like an 8 month news delay, or do you really have nothing better to justify your dislike for public displays of tolerance than pointing to an outdated piece of partisan politics?
First, why is my country involved into this? I am pretty sure i can write on this forum as much as You do as long as i follow TL rules. Second, it may be outdated piece of news, but it shows his way of thinking. But maybe You are right, and i should not be criticizing what is happening in Your country after all.
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On May 01 2013 05:18 karpotoss wrote:Forgive me if i go slightly of topic, but are you all familiar with "you didn't build that" statement made by a Obama? http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/you-didnt-build-thatOnce upon a time he said something like this: "There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.) If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet." What does is have to do with anything about gay marriage? Not much I have to admit, but i don't like how after coming out you get to be a national hero, with congratulations from the first couple, and widespread applause from the media. On the other hand everyday business owners who employ people, pay taxes, and make Your country prosper get a middle finger from the US president with saying "nah, bro you do nothing" Quite a redefinion of values. ....What?
It's bad enough that this is completely off-topic, but you're a Polish person outraged by an old speech made by the U.S. President to his people. I could understand if it maybe could have affected you, but of all the things in the world your mind could have gone to and this is what emerges.
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On May 01 2013 05:31 meadbert wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 05:22 Klondikebar wrote:1. He's not just keeping his beliefs to himself. He uses them to justify denying rights based on his religion that he ought not to deny. That makes him a shithead. 2. Also...quoting rules from the Bible while sitting there wearing mixed fabrics and cut hair also makes him a shithead. So people who disagree with you should keep their beliefs to themselves? In this case he was explicitly asked by his employer about his religious beliefs, which he disclosed as part of his job to commentate. You are welcome to disagree with his religious beliefs, as I do, but that does not make him a "shithead." He did not justify the denying of any rights. Tolerance is a two way street. If we want others to be tolerant of us, we should begin with being tolerant of them.
Except that when it comes time to vote on gay marriage...which way do you think he's going to vote? Bigots love to pretend like we need to respect them too but just because you oppress people with a straight face and a calm tone of voice doesn't make you a nice person.
You're allowed to believe what you want, but when your beliefs translate into laws that oppress other people you're not driving on a two way street anymore.
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On May 01 2013 05:32 karpotoss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 05:23 farvacola wrote:On May 01 2013 05:18 karpotoss wrote:Forgive me if i go slightly of topic, but are you all familiar with "you didn't build that" statement made by a Obama? http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/you-didnt-build-thatOnce upon a time he said something like this: "There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me -- because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -- look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.) If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet." What does is have to do with anything about gay marriage? Not much I have to admit, but i don't like how after coming out you get to be a national hero, with congratulations from the first couple, and widespread applause from the media. On the other hand everyday business owners who employ people, pay taxes, and make Your country prosper get a middle finger from the US president with saying "nah, bro you do nothing" Quite a redefinion of values. lol. Seriously? Is Poland on like an 8 month news delay, or do you really have nothing better to justify your dislike for public displays of tolerance than pointing to an outdated piece of partisan politics? First, why is my country involved into this? I am pretty sure i can write on this forum as much as You do as long as i follow TL rules. Second, it may be outdated piece of news, but it shows his way of thinking. But maybe You are right, and i should not be criticizing what is happening in Your country after all. No, you are speaking to a partisan interpretation of those statements that is hardly an objective measure of showing "his way of thinking" in pursuit of lambasting some perceived discrepancy in US social values. I never said anything about your nationality as it pertains to being able to post here, rather that for a foreigner to post an offtopic bit of polemic US politics and then pretend that this signifies anything meaningful is actually far more discriminatory than my mention of your Polish heritage.
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On May 01 2013 05:33 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 05:31 meadbert wrote:On May 01 2013 05:22 Klondikebar wrote:1. He's not just keeping his beliefs to himself. He uses them to justify denying rights based on his religion that he ought not to deny. That makes him a shithead. 2. Also...quoting rules from the Bible while sitting there wearing mixed fabrics and cut hair also makes him a shithead. So people who disagree with you should keep their beliefs to themselves? In this case he was explicitly asked by his employer about his religious beliefs, which he disclosed as part of his job to commentate. You are welcome to disagree with his religious beliefs, as I do, but that does not make him a "shithead." He did not justify the denying of any rights. Tolerance is a two way street. If we want others to be tolerant of us, we should begin with being tolerant of them. Except that when it comes time to vote on gay marriage...which way do you think he's going to vote? Bigots love to pretend like we need to respect them too but just because you oppress people with a straight face and a calm tone of voice doesn't make you a nice person. You're allowed to believe what you want, but when your beliefs translate into laws that oppress other people you're not driving on a two way street anymore.
BE TOLERANT DAGNABBIT I AM TRYING TO SURPRESS YOUR RIGHTS
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Threads like this remind how different the US is to Western Europe on these things. Not that we don't have some way to go but it's like looking 20 years into the past.
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On May 01 2013 05:33 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 05:31 meadbert wrote:On May 01 2013 05:22 Klondikebar wrote:1. He's not just keeping his beliefs to himself. He uses them to justify denying rights based on his religion that he ought not to deny. That makes him a shithead. 2. Also...quoting rules from the Bible while sitting there wearing mixed fabrics and cut hair also makes him a shithead. So people who disagree with you should keep their beliefs to themselves? In this case he was explicitly asked by his employer about his religious beliefs, which he disclosed as part of his job to commentate. You are welcome to disagree with his religious beliefs, as I do, but that does not make him a "shithead." He did not justify the denying of any rights. Tolerance is a two way street. If we want others to be tolerant of us, we should begin with being tolerant of them. Except that when it comes time to vote on gay marriage...which way do you think he's going to vote? Bigots love to pretend like we need to respect them too but just because you oppress people with a straight face and a calm tone of voice doesn't make you a nice person. You're allowed to believe what you want, but when your beliefs translate into laws that oppress other people you're not driving on a two way street anymore. We do not know which way he will vote. His comments were not political. They were not even religious as he gives very little religious justification for his beliefs. Instead his message is that of tolerance. The biggest impact I expect it will have is that some religious people out there may be receptive to his message and be more tolerant themselves. President Obama woke up one fine day and decided he was no longer against gay marriage. He was strongly in favor of it and those opposed are now bigots. Most people do not operate that way. The process of coming around takes time and tolerance is a bridge that helps them change their mind. They progress slowly from potential hate, to fear, to mild fascination, to tolerance and then to full acceptance. Understand that Chris Broussard may be a bit behind us be he is taking steps in the right direction and helping others to do so to.
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Good for him and for gay people in the states!
your personal tastes shouldn't be important to determine if you can or not play a game or do a job, it's about time things go smoothly for gay people.. atleast in my kind of society your sex orientation shouldn't be important
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I don't buy this for a second. I'm all for gay rights and equality for everyone but this is obviously this this is just an angle his agent created to get him signed for another season. He career was over averaging less than a point a game, 34 years old in his 12th year of the league and suddenly he wants to announce hes gay? give me a break. If Derrick Rose, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Kevin Durant, said he was gay I would believe it because they have nothing to gain. This is just a marketing ploy.
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On May 01 2013 05:47 meadbert wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 05:33 Klondikebar wrote:On May 01 2013 05:31 meadbert wrote:On May 01 2013 05:22 Klondikebar wrote:1. He's not just keeping his beliefs to himself. He uses them to justify denying rights based on his religion that he ought not to deny. That makes him a shithead. 2. Also...quoting rules from the Bible while sitting there wearing mixed fabrics and cut hair also makes him a shithead. So people who disagree with you should keep their beliefs to themselves? In this case he was explicitly asked by his employer about his religious beliefs, which he disclosed as part of his job to commentate. You are welcome to disagree with his religious beliefs, as I do, but that does not make him a "shithead." He did not justify the denying of any rights. Tolerance is a two way street. If we want others to be tolerant of us, we should begin with being tolerant of them. Except that when it comes time to vote on gay marriage...which way do you think he's going to vote? Bigots love to pretend like we need to respect them too but just because you oppress people with a straight face and a calm tone of voice doesn't make you a nice person. You're allowed to believe what you want, but when your beliefs translate into laws that oppress other people you're not driving on a two way street anymore. We do not know which way he will vote. His comments were not political. They were not even religious as he gives very little religious justification for his beliefs. Instead his message is that of tolerance. The biggest impact I expect it will have is that some religious people out there may be receptive to his message and be more tolerant themselves. President Obama woke up one fine day and decided he was no longer against gay marriage. He was strongly in favor of it and those opposed are now bigots. Most people do not operate that way. The process of coming around takes time and tolerance is a bridge that helps them change their mind. They progress slowly from potential hate, to fear, to mild fascination, to tolerance and then to full acceptance. Understand that Chris Broussard may be a bit behind us be he is taking steps in the right direction and helping others to do so to.
Dude, the first line of his statement was "I'm a Christian." He's not "taking steps in the right direction. He's making a pathetic attempt to hide his bigotry behind niceness and hoping we won't notice. And the process of coming around doesn't so much take time as it is just a matter of idiots dragging their heels against common sense and decency. Don't give that bullshit about how it's not religious and if you want to delude yourself into pretending you don't know how he votes that's fine but leave the discussion to people who have some common sense.
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On April 30 2013 11:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 11:47 DannyJ wrote: Too bad he's essentially an absolute nobody. Yes making it in the NBA isn't like a challenge or anything. He makes a valid point, nobody knew who this guy was before he came out
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On May 01 2013 05:52 Klondikebar wrote: if you want to delude yourself into pretending you don't know how he votes that's fine but leave the discussion to people who have some common sense.
My guess is he votes for Democrats, but I really do not know.
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On May 01 2013 05:50 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote: I don't buy this for a second. I'm all for gay rights and equality for all but this is obviously this this is just a angle his agent created to get him signed for another season. He career was over averaging less than a point a game, 34 years old in his 12th year of the league and suddenly he wants to announce hes gay? give me a break. If Derrick Rose, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Kevin Durant, said he was gay I would believe it because they have nothing to gain. This is just a marketing ploy.
Gay conspiracy theory huh? Cool story.
You must live in the Rush Limbaugh world where if gay marriage was legal suddenly straight men would run around claiming to love cock to get some of their buddy's health insurance. Jesus christ.
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I'm not sure how people are debating this. What's wrong with a gay guy coming out of the closet in a public sphere? Is this not universally a good thing for everybody? Even if one is against homosexual marriage, isn't the prospect of gay people feeling comfortable in society a good thing overall?
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Tolerance vs acceptance
Tolerance is fine and all, but I take issue with those who think that by being tolerant they are somehow morally superior to their vocal dissenters. If anything, tolerance is merely hiding your true feelings about an issue because you lack the convictions to stand up for what you believe in. I almost have more respect for people who oppose gay marriage openly and defend their opinions, regardless of their reasons.
That said, tolerance is probably the best thing to hope for at the moment, as acceptance is still probably a ways off.
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On May 01 2013 05:56 Shiori wrote: I'm not sure how people are debating this. What's wrong with a gay guy coming out of the closet in a public sphere? Is this not universally a good thing for everybody? Even if one is against homosexual marriage, isn't the prospect of gay people feeling comfortable in society a good thing overall? I think the support in this thread has been universally positive. There has been some speculation about impure financial motives, but who cares the motivation. This could be huge in its impact on people. For women having Elen come out in the 90s and shows like Queer Eye did a lot to bring them around, but men have been slower. I am hopeful that having a gay professional athlete and more importantly watching the other athletes act professionally will have a significant positive impact on public opinion.
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On May 01 2013 05:56 Shiori wrote: I'm not sure how people are debating this. What's wrong with a gay guy coming out of the closet in a public sphere? Is this not universally a good thing for everybody? Even if one is against homosexual marriage, isn't the prospect of gay people feeling comfortable in society a good thing overall?
Because the NBA is supposed about skill not sexual preference. If you don't have the skill you shouldn't be able to participate. This player has no ability to compete in the league but will now secure a position on a team because he developed an elaborate psychodrama the media would eat up saving his nothing career. This shouldnt have even been a story but hollywood controversy consultants had other ideas.
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On May 01 2013 05:56 Shiori wrote: What's wrong with a gay guy coming out of the closet in a public sphere? Is this not universally a good thing for everybody? Who he has sex with is good for me how? I'm not getting dinner, or a movie, or a reach around. All is does is fill up the news with more dramatic bullshit. Oh, and it also gives us another thread to argue about politics, xenophobia, and religion here on TL.
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On May 01 2013 06:02 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 05:56 Shiori wrote: I'm not sure how people are debating this. What's wrong with a gay guy coming out of the closet in a public sphere? Is this not universally a good thing for everybody? Even if one is against homosexual marriage, isn't the prospect of gay people feeling comfortable in society a good thing overall? Because the NBA is supposed about skill not sexual preference. If you don't have the skill you shouldn't be able to participate. This player has no ability to compete in the league but will now secure a position on a team because he developed an elaborate psychodrama the media is eating up saving his nothing career. This shouldnt have even been a story but hollywood controversy consultants had other ideas. I have always wondered why conspiracy believers like you believe in dumb shit while there are other real ones they will disclaim.
You think he will stay longer in his team because of that? The opposite is way more realistic. 100% sure it will create problems with his team. Problems can rise from within with the staff members and players or from their fans or people that will now mock the team because a gay is in it etc...
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Wow, can't believe he's the first one to do it, taken a damn while...
On another note I kept reading the thread title in the sidebar as 'First Openly Gay Professor', lol.
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On May 01 2013 06:12 Acertos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:02 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:On May 01 2013 05:56 Shiori wrote: I'm not sure how people are debating this. What's wrong with a gay guy coming out of the closet in a public sphere? Is this not universally a good thing for everybody? Even if one is against homosexual marriage, isn't the prospect of gay people feeling comfortable in society a good thing overall? Because the NBA is supposed about skill not sexual preference. If you don't have the skill you shouldn't be able to participate. This player has no ability to compete in the league but will now secure a position on a team because he developed an elaborate psychodrama the media is eating up saving his nothing career. This shouldnt have even been a story but hollywood controversy consultants had other ideas. I have always wondered why conspiracy believers like you believe in dumb shit while there are other real ones they will disclaim. You think he will stay longer in his team because of that? The opposite is way more realistic. 100% sure it will create problems with his team. Problems can rise from within with the staff members and players or from their fans or people that will now mock the team because a gay is in it etc...
100% sure actually that it will cause problems with his team. Not because they will get hate for having a gay player but because if they try to drop him the gay community will cry homophobia and people will call the coaches and staff bigots for dropping him after he comes out.
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On May 01 2013 06:16 Magic_Mike wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:12 Acertos wrote:On May 01 2013 06:02 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:On May 01 2013 05:56 Shiori wrote: I'm not sure how people are debating this. What's wrong with a gay guy coming out of the closet in a public sphere? Is this not universally a good thing for everybody? Even if one is against homosexual marriage, isn't the prospect of gay people feeling comfortable in society a good thing overall? Because the NBA is supposed about skill not sexual preference. If you don't have the skill you shouldn't be able to participate. This player has no ability to compete in the league but will now secure a position on a team because he developed an elaborate psychodrama the media is eating up saving his nothing career. This shouldnt have even been a story but hollywood controversy consultants had other ideas. I have always wondered why conspiracy believers like you believe in dumb shit while there are other real ones they will disclaim. You think he will stay longer in his team because of that? The opposite is way more realistic. 100% sure it will create problems with his team. Problems can rise from within with the staff members and players or from their fans or people that will now mock the team because a gay is in it etc... 100% sure actually that it will cause problems with his team. Not because they will get hate for having a gay player but because if they try to drop him the gay community will cry homophobia and people will call the coaches and staff bigots for dropping him after he comes out.
...that's not how things work.
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On May 01 2013 06:12 Acertos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:02 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:On May 01 2013 05:56 Shiori wrote: I'm not sure how people are debating this. What's wrong with a gay guy coming out of the closet in a public sphere? Is this not universally a good thing for everybody? Even if one is against homosexual marriage, isn't the prospect of gay people feeling comfortable in society a good thing overall? Because the NBA is supposed about skill not sexual preference. If you don't have the skill you shouldn't be able to participate. This player has no ability to compete in the league but will now secure a position on a team because he developed an elaborate psychodrama the media is eating up saving his nothing career. This shouldnt have even been a story but hollywood controversy consultants had other ideas. I have always wondered why conspiracy believers like you believe in dumb shit while there are other real ones they will disclaim. You think he will stay longer in his team because of that? The opposite is way more realistic. 100% sure it will create problems with his team. Problems can rise from within with the staff members and players or from their fans or people that will now mock the team because a gay is in it etc...
You think its a conspiracy that before he announced he was gay he had zero team offers and after he had 15 them offers? This isn't about sexuality its about business marketing. The NBA wants to make themselves look more accepting of others. They will go along with this until people in the stands demand the gay player to start for the team even though he cant play worth a damn. Things will become more of a circus than it already are because of the tyranny of the majority.
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If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one.
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On May 01 2013 05:56 Shiori wrote: I'm not sure how people are debating this. What's wrong with a gay guy coming out of the closet in a public sphere? Is this not universally a good thing for everybody? Even if one is against homosexual marriage, isn't the prospect of gay people feeling comfortable in society a good thing overall? People arnt really debating it. Some people are questioning why a guy who came out after he was done playing is somehow any different from the other guys who came out gay after they were done playing and getting called anti gay bigots for it.
He's not an contracted player coming out who's gay and even if he was he wouldn't be the first. But I guess I'm the bigot for pointing that out.
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On May 01 2013 06:19 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:12 Acertos wrote:On May 01 2013 06:02 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:On May 01 2013 05:56 Shiori wrote: I'm not sure how people are debating this. What's wrong with a gay guy coming out of the closet in a public sphere? Is this not universally a good thing for everybody? Even if one is against homosexual marriage, isn't the prospect of gay people feeling comfortable in society a good thing overall? Because the NBA is supposed about skill not sexual preference. If you don't have the skill you shouldn't be able to participate. This player has no ability to compete in the league but will now secure a position on a team because he developed an elaborate psychodrama the media is eating up saving his nothing career. This shouldnt have even been a story but hollywood controversy consultants had other ideas. I have always wondered why conspiracy believers like you believe in dumb shit while there are other real ones they will disclaim. You think he will stay longer in his team because of that? The opposite is way more realistic. 100% sure it will create problems with his team. Problems can rise from within with the staff members and players or from their fans or people that will now mock the team because a gay is in it etc... You think its a conspiracy that before he announced he was gay he had zero team offers and after he had 15 them offers? This isn't about sexuality its about business marketing. The NBA wants to make themselves look more accepting of others. They will go along with this buntil people in the stands demand the gay player to start for the teameven though he cant play worth a damn. Things will become more of a circus than it already are because of the tyranny of the majority.
Not sure why I'm responding to an obvious troll but lets see these 15 offers please. I mean, you're not pulling shit completely out of your ass here right? Go ahead and link them for us please.
He's been playing in the NBA since '01. He's played for a lot of teams. He's always been nothing but an absolute fucking professional. He doesn't run his mouth, he's not a showboat, he's not a jackass he just does his fucking job. Which is something many other pro athletes could learn from.
Apparently now the NBA is conspiring to look more accepting of others too? Of the big 4 sports in America the NBA is one of the more accepting ones compared to Hockey and Football. The "mans man" face smashing contact game aspect isn't there. It's the game of finesse, so not sure why they'd be dying to be thought of as more accepting than they are.
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This is really well timed imho. He's was about to be in a position were he wasn't going to be able to make the cut the following season and now all I hear on the radio is how doing so (cutting him) would look bad for the managers of the team. I have no problem with equality and all, but this is shaping up to be a political move on his part.
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I wonder if this Chris Broussard guy's jersey is a fabric blend. If so I guess he is also “walking in open rebellion against God." I certainly wouldn't categorize him as a Christian because imean the bible wouldn't. Wait wasn't there something else in the bible about loving everyone or something? Unconditional love can be so complicated, I mean how do you know who it applies to?
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On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one.
I'd agree with that, with the exception that we are NOT a truly tolerant society. Only when things like this don't become newsworthy will we be a tolerant society. He's a "hero" because he came out to an atmosphere of hate and prejudice towards gays, and because he's relatively in public view (because of his position in the NBA).
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On May 01 2013 06:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:19 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:On May 01 2013 06:12 Acertos wrote:On May 01 2013 06:02 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:On May 01 2013 05:56 Shiori wrote: I'm not sure how people are debating this. What's wrong with a gay guy coming out of the closet in a public sphere? Is this not universally a good thing for everybody? Even if one is against homosexual marriage, isn't the prospect of gay people feeling comfortable in society a good thing overall? Because the NBA is supposed about skill not sexual preference. If you don't have the skill you shouldn't be able to participate. This player has no ability to compete in the league but will now secure a position on a team because he developed an elaborate psychodrama the media is eating up saving his nothing career. This shouldnt have even been a story but hollywood controversy consultants had other ideas. I have always wondered why conspiracy believers like you believe in dumb shit while there are other real ones they will disclaim. You think he will stay longer in his team because of that? The opposite is way more realistic. 100% sure it will create problems with his team. Problems can rise from within with the staff members and players or from their fans or people that will now mock the team because a gay is in it etc... You think its a conspiracy that before he announced he was gay he had zero team offers and after he had 15 them offers? This isn't about sexuality its about business marketing. The NBA wants to make themselves look more accepting of others. They will go along with this buntil people in the stands demand the gay player to start for the teameven though he cant play worth a damn. Things will become more of a circus than it already are because of the tyranny of the majority. Not sure why I'm responding to an obvious troll but lets see these 15 offers please. I mean, you're not pulling shit completely out of your ass here right? Go ahead and link them for us please. He's been playing in the NBA since '01. He's played for a lot of teams. He's always been nothing but an absolute fucking professional. He doesn't run his mouth, he's not a showboat, he's not a jackass he just does his fucking job. Which is something many other pro athletes could learn from. Apparently now the NBA is conspiring to look more accepting of others too? Of the big 4 sports in America the NBA is one of the more accepting ones compared to Hockey and Football. The "mans man" face smashing contact game aspect isn't there. It's the game of finesse, so not sure why they'd be dying to be thought of as more accepting than they are.
Jason Collins 2012-13 Statistics. PPG: 1.1; RPG: 1.60; APG: 0.2; EFF: + 2.21. http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_collins/career_stats.html
With stats like those any heterosexual player would have been shunned immediately. Now that he is using emotional currency to leverage teams he will be hired. Nothing complicated about that.
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On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Your statement is stupid, our societies aren't tolerant at all so the first time an athlete can admit he is gay while still working is a step towards tolerance. You need to understand that he was hiding who he was because he lives in the sport world. Machism and homophobia is more common there so it was even harder for him.
He was the first of many I hope and it's news worthy on an internationnal level (and it did, it reached France).
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On May 01 2013 06:42 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On May 01 2013 06:19 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:On May 01 2013 06:12 Acertos wrote:On May 01 2013 06:02 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:On May 01 2013 05:56 Shiori wrote: I'm not sure how people are debating this. What's wrong with a gay guy coming out of the closet in a public sphere? Is this not universally a good thing for everybody? Even if one is against homosexual marriage, isn't the prospect of gay people feeling comfortable in society a good thing overall? Because the NBA is supposed about skill not sexual preference. If you don't have the skill you shouldn't be able to participate. This player has no ability to compete in the league but will now secure a position on a team because he developed an elaborate psychodrama the media is eating up saving his nothing career. This shouldnt have even been a story but hollywood controversy consultants had other ideas. I have always wondered why conspiracy believers like you believe in dumb shit while there are other real ones they will disclaim. You think he will stay longer in his team because of that? The opposite is way more realistic. 100% sure it will create problems with his team. Problems can rise from within with the staff members and players or from their fans or people that will now mock the team because a gay is in it etc... You think its a conspiracy that before he announced he was gay he had zero team offers and after he had 15 them offers? This isn't about sexuality its about business marketing. The NBA wants to make themselves look more accepting of others. They will go along with this buntil people in the stands demand the gay player to start for the teameven though he cant play worth a damn. Things will become more of a circus than it already are because of the tyranny of the majority. Not sure why I'm responding to an obvious troll but lets see these 15 offers please. I mean, you're not pulling shit completely out of your ass here right? Go ahead and link them for us please. He's been playing in the NBA since '01. He's played for a lot of teams. He's always been nothing but an absolute fucking professional. He doesn't run his mouth, he's not a showboat, he's not a jackass he just does his fucking job. Which is something many other pro athletes could learn from. Apparently now the NBA is conspiring to look more accepting of others too? Of the big 4 sports in America the NBA is one of the more accepting ones compared to Hockey and Football. The "mans man" face smashing contact game aspect isn't there. It's the game of finesse, so not sure why they'd be dying to be thought of as more accepting than they are. Jason Collins 2012-13 Statistics. PPG: 1.1; RPG: 1.60; APG: 0.2; EFF: + 2.21. http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_collins/career_stats.htmlWith stats like those any heterosexual player would have been shunned immediately. Now that he is using emotional currency to leverage teams he will be hired. Nothing complicated about that.
So we went from "he has 15 offers" to "he'll probably be hired by someone." GTFO troll.
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On May 01 2013 06:42 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On May 01 2013 06:19 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:On May 01 2013 06:12 Acertos wrote:On May 01 2013 06:02 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:On May 01 2013 05:56 Shiori wrote: I'm not sure how people are debating this. What's wrong with a gay guy coming out of the closet in a public sphere? Is this not universally a good thing for everybody? Even if one is against homosexual marriage, isn't the prospect of gay people feeling comfortable in society a good thing overall? Because the NBA is supposed about skill not sexual preference. If you don't have the skill you shouldn't be able to participate. This player has no ability to compete in the league but will now secure a position on a team because he developed an elaborate psychodrama the media is eating up saving his nothing career. This shouldnt have even been a story but hollywood controversy consultants had other ideas. I have always wondered why conspiracy believers like you believe in dumb shit while there are other real ones they will disclaim. You think he will stay longer in his team because of that? The opposite is way more realistic. 100% sure it will create problems with his team. Problems can rise from within with the staff members and players or from their fans or people that will now mock the team because a gay is in it etc... You think its a conspiracy that before he announced he was gay he had zero team offers and after he had 15 them offers? This isn't about sexuality its about business marketing. The NBA wants to make themselves look more accepting of others. They will go along with this buntil people in the stands demand the gay player to start for the teameven though he cant play worth a damn. Things will become more of a circus than it already are because of the tyranny of the majority. Not sure why I'm responding to an obvious troll but lets see these 15 offers please. I mean, you're not pulling shit completely out of your ass here right? Go ahead and link them for us please. He's been playing in the NBA since '01. He's played for a lot of teams. He's always been nothing but an absolute fucking professional. He doesn't run his mouth, he's not a showboat, he's not a jackass he just does his fucking job. Which is something many other pro athletes could learn from. Apparently now the NBA is conspiring to look more accepting of others too? Of the big 4 sports in America the NBA is one of the more accepting ones compared to Hockey and Football. The "mans man" face smashing contact game aspect isn't there. It's the game of finesse, so not sure why they'd be dying to be thought of as more accepting than they are. Jason Collins 2012-13 Statistics. PPG: 1.1; RPG: 1.60; APG: 0.2; EFF: + 2.21. http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_collins/career_stats.htmlWith stats like those any heterosexual player would have been shunned immediately. Now that he is using emotional currency to leverage teams he will be hired. Nothing complicated about that.
He's 7 foot fucking tall. He'll play literally as long as he wants to play, gay or straight. You cant teach 7 foot tall. 7 foot tall people don't just grow on trees. You think he's supposed to be Michael fucking Jordan or something? 7 foot tall players are like left handers in baseball. They're ALWAYS good to have around. If he came out or not he'd find someplace to play very very easily.
On top of that you have the fact that he's been in the closet, lying to those around him his entire life and the emotional baggage that brings. If he'd come out 10 years ago maybe he's 10 times the player he is because he doesn't have to live a fucking lie. He doesn't have to be hide who he is and that helps him flourish even more. We'll never know but any athlete will tell you emotional baggage will fucking cripple you.
I'm still waiting for a link to those 15 offers or are you ready to admit you're making shit up?
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On May 01 2013 06:48 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:42 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:On May 01 2013 06:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On May 01 2013 06:19 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:On May 01 2013 06:12 Acertos wrote:On May 01 2013 06:02 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:On May 01 2013 05:56 Shiori wrote: I'm not sure how people are debating this. What's wrong with a gay guy coming out of the closet in a public sphere? Is this not universally a good thing for everybody? Even if one is against homosexual marriage, isn't the prospect of gay people feeling comfortable in society a good thing overall? Because the NBA is supposed about skill not sexual preference. If you don't have the skill you shouldn't be able to participate. This player has no ability to compete in the league but will now secure a position on a team because he developed an elaborate psychodrama the media is eating up saving his nothing career. This shouldnt have even been a story but hollywood controversy consultants had other ideas. I have always wondered why conspiracy believers like you believe in dumb shit while there are other real ones they will disclaim. You think he will stay longer in his team because of that? The opposite is way more realistic. 100% sure it will create problems with his team. Problems can rise from within with the staff members and players or from their fans or people that will now mock the team because a gay is in it etc... You think its a conspiracy that before he announced he was gay he had zero team offers and after he had 15 them offers? This isn't about sexuality its about business marketing. The NBA wants to make themselves look more accepting of others. They will go along with this buntil people in the stands demand the gay player to start for the teameven though he cant play worth a damn. Things will become more of a circus than it already are because of the tyranny of the majority. Not sure why I'm responding to an obvious troll but lets see these 15 offers please. I mean, you're not pulling shit completely out of your ass here right? Go ahead and link them for us please. He's been playing in the NBA since '01. He's played for a lot of teams. He's always been nothing but an absolute fucking professional. He doesn't run his mouth, he's not a showboat, he's not a jackass he just does his fucking job. Which is something many other pro athletes could learn from. Apparently now the NBA is conspiring to look more accepting of others too? Of the big 4 sports in America the NBA is one of the more accepting ones compared to Hockey and Football. The "mans man" face smashing contact game aspect isn't there. It's the game of finesse, so not sure why they'd be dying to be thought of as more accepting than they are. Jason Collins 2012-13 Statistics. PPG: 1.1; RPG: 1.60; APG: 0.2; EFF: + 2.21. http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_collins/career_stats.htmlWith stats like those any heterosexual player would have been shunned immediately. Now that he is using emotional currency to leverage teams he will be hired. Nothing complicated about that. He's 7 foot fucking tall. He'll play literally as long as he wants to play, gay or straight. You cant teach 7 foot tall. 7 foot tall people don't just grow on trees. You think he's supposed to be Michael fucking Jordan or something? 7 foot tall players are like left handers in baseball. They're ALWAYS good to have around. If he came out or not he'd find someplace to play very very easily. On top of that you have the fact that he's been in the closet, lying to those around him his entire life and the emotional baggage that brings. If he'd come out 10 years ago maybe he's 10 times the player he is because he doesn't have to live a fucking lie. He doesn't have to be hide who he is and that helps him flourish even more. We'll never know but any athlete will tell you emotional baggage will fucking cripple you. I'm still waiting for a link to those 15 offers or are you ready to admit you're making shit up?
I am indifferent.
User was warned for this post
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On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one.
Of course.
Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news.
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On May 01 2013 06:49 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:48 OuchyDathurts wrote:On May 01 2013 06:42 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:On May 01 2013 06:33 OuchyDathurts wrote:On May 01 2013 06:19 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:On May 01 2013 06:12 Acertos wrote:On May 01 2013 06:02 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote:On May 01 2013 05:56 Shiori wrote: I'm not sure how people are debating this. What's wrong with a gay guy coming out of the closet in a public sphere? Is this not universally a good thing for everybody? Even if one is against homosexual marriage, isn't the prospect of gay people feeling comfortable in society a good thing overall? Because the NBA is supposed about skill not sexual preference. If you don't have the skill you shouldn't be able to participate. This player has no ability to compete in the league but will now secure a position on a team because he developed an elaborate psychodrama the media is eating up saving his nothing career. This shouldnt have even been a story but hollywood controversy consultants had other ideas. I have always wondered why conspiracy believers like you believe in dumb shit while there are other real ones they will disclaim. You think he will stay longer in his team because of that? The opposite is way more realistic. 100% sure it will create problems with his team. Problems can rise from within with the staff members and players or from their fans or people that will now mock the team because a gay is in it etc... You think its a conspiracy that before he announced he was gay he had zero team offers and after he had 15 them offers? This isn't about sexuality its about business marketing. The NBA wants to make themselves look more accepting of others. They will go along with this buntil people in the stands demand the gay player to start for the teameven though he cant play worth a damn. Things will become more of a circus than it already are because of the tyranny of the majority. Not sure why I'm responding to an obvious troll but lets see these 15 offers please. I mean, you're not pulling shit completely out of your ass here right? Go ahead and link them for us please. He's been playing in the NBA since '01. He's played for a lot of teams. He's always been nothing but an absolute fucking professional. He doesn't run his mouth, he's not a showboat, he's not a jackass he just does his fucking job. Which is something many other pro athletes could learn from. Apparently now the NBA is conspiring to look more accepting of others too? Of the big 4 sports in America the NBA is one of the more accepting ones compared to Hockey and Football. The "mans man" face smashing contact game aspect isn't there. It's the game of finesse, so not sure why they'd be dying to be thought of as more accepting than they are. Jason Collins 2012-13 Statistics. PPG: 1.1; RPG: 1.60; APG: 0.2; EFF: + 2.21. http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_collins/career_stats.htmlWith stats like those any heterosexual player would have been shunned immediately. Now that he is using emotional currency to leverage teams he will be hired. Nothing complicated about that. He's 7 foot fucking tall. He'll play literally as long as he wants to play, gay or straight. You cant teach 7 foot tall. 7 foot tall people don't just grow on trees. You think he's supposed to be Michael fucking Jordan or something? 7 foot tall players are like left handers in baseball. They're ALWAYS good to have around. If he came out or not he'd find someplace to play very very easily. On top of that you have the fact that he's been in the closet, lying to those around him his entire life and the emotional baggage that brings. If he'd come out 10 years ago maybe he's 10 times the player he is because he doesn't have to live a fucking lie. He doesn't have to be hide who he is and that helps him flourish even more. We'll never know but any athlete will tell you emotional baggage will fucking cripple you. I'm still waiting for a link to those 15 offers or are you ready to admit you're making shit up? I am indifferent.
I'm sure you'll see yourself to the door then.
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On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. Because telling all the gay athletes that they should stay in the closet until after their career is over and they have no offers to play again before coming out is going to move us forward as a society? Thats the entire message this guy sent.
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On May 01 2013 06:56 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. Because telling all the gay athletes that they should stay in the closet until after their career is over and they have no offers to play again before coming out is going to move us forward as a society? Thats the entire message this guy sent.
His career isn't over. He's probably past his career peak but it's certainly not over. And, you're missing all of the support he's received from other players who sent the message "we are totally fine with having gay teammates."
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On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. The very existence of this thread proves this wrong. When every third comment is basically "if you think there is something wrong with being gay, you are an ignorant, retarded, stupid, go-dieinhell person"; then it can't even be further from tolerance. How about just not giving a shit about it? Why would anyone say he is gay or not, when noone is asking? As far as I know, basketball has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. This is at least the fault of gay-supporters than not. Bringing an issue up in completely irrelevant topics.
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Funny thing about this as a Nets fan i remember Jason Kidds wife in 07 ( when Collins still was with the Nets ) spreading rumors about a gay player on the Nets. Turns out she was right afterall although i don't think anybody expected it to a) actually true and b) be Twin / Set Shot Willy .
Good for him though . In his situation he doesn't really have much to lose anymore anyway. He's a roleplayer on the tailend of his career . Employed more for veteran leadership and lockerroom pressence than actual play on the court . Not to mention he was allways well liked by just about every teammate and coach that he ever played for and with. Hell it'll probably help him more than hurt him to get a job for next season .
Anyway i'm really suprised how long he managed to bounce around in the league after the Nets traded him. He looked like he was very close to done 5 years ago when the Nets traded him to Memphis for Stromile Swift .
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On May 01 2013 06:10 dotHead wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 05:56 Shiori wrote: What's wrong with a gay guy coming out of the closet in a public sphere? Is this not universally a good thing for everybody? Who he has sex with is good for me how? I'm not getting dinner, or a movie, or a reach around. All is does is fill up the news with more dramatic bullshit. Oh, and it also gives us another thread to argue about politics, xenophobia, and religion here on TL.
Then don't open the thread.
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Can someone of the US-posters claiming that he is only doing this because of publicity and that his basket career is going to an end and so fourth explain and this to me: How come this guy is (one of?) the first gay athelete to come out? Surely, if it would be so beneficial to publicy announce that you are gay, many would've done it before him? Why do we not hear this kind of stuff everyday if what you are saying is true.
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On May 01 2013 07:39 Lazermonkey wrote: Can someone of the US-posters claiming that he is only doing this because of publicity and that his basket career is going to an end and so fourth explain and this to me: How come this guy is (one of?) the first gay athelete to come out? Surely, if it would be so beneficial to publicy announce that you are gay, many would've done it before him? Why do we not hear this kind of stuff everyday if what you are saying is true.
The same reason Obama suddenly came out in support of gay Marriage right after the big North Carolina vote, and during an election year, and not while he was running initially, or before he was voted in.
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United States40776 Posts
On May 01 2013 07:08 Antyee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. The very existence of this thread proves this wrong. When every third comment is basically "if you think there is something wrong with being gay, you are an ignorant, retarded, stupid, go-dieinhell person"; then it can't even be further from tolerance. How about just not giving a shit about it? Why would anyone say he is gay or not, when noone is asking? As far as I know, basketball has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. This is at least the fault of gay-supporters than not. Bringing an issue up in completely irrelevant topics. No-one is asking questions about sexuality because the default assumption is that you're straight which, as a straight person, suits you just fine. This is called privilege, you can't see the issues because they don't impact you and therefore you conclude that there are no issues. However not everyone is straight, for some people the barrage of "you must be attracted to this", "you must be like this", "this is how a man is defined" comprises an unrelenting assault on their identity. You can dismiss things as having nothing to do with sexual preference because your sexual preference is aligned with the prevailing current and blends in seamlessly, other people are not so lucky.
You don't have to understand what it feels like to have the "wrong" sexual preference, it's an alien concept to most people, but you ought to recognise your inherent hetero privilege. You get to see the world as not challenging your sexual identity because it doesn't challenge yours but that doesn't give you a platform to dismiss the experiences of others from.
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On May 01 2013 05:56 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 05:50 Ubiquitousdichotomy wrote: I don't buy this for a second. I'm all for gay rights and equality for all but this is obviously this this is just a angle his agent created to get him signed for another season. He career was over averaging less than a point a game, 34 years old in his 12th year of the league and suddenly he wants to announce hes gay? give me a break. If Derrick Rose, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Kevin Durant, said he was gay I would believe it because they have nothing to gain. This is just a marketing ploy. Gay conspiracy theory huh? Cool story. You must live in the Rush Limbaugh world where if gay marriage was legal suddenly straight men would run around claiming to love cock to get some of their buddy's health insurance. Jesus christ. I don't know if throwing out another wild conspiracy theory is helpful to showing how unbelievable the quoted poster is. Part of this angle is whether this is a publicity stunt by a previously closeted gay or his bold step away from a don't ask don't tell NBA culture. What kind of lies the left would believe about a conservative icon doesn't really get on the same level. Is the attention the plus for making this step financially or personally/movement oriented? I lean towards the movement and the attention there, essentially, for personal reasons. I could be way off and he wanted endorsements and public accolades and the money. Damnit, I had to keep looking up his darn name because I hadn't heard this guys long NBA career or team before this date.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On May 01 2013 07:46 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 07:08 Antyee wrote:On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. The very existence of this thread proves this wrong. When every third comment is basically "if you think there is something wrong with being gay, you are an ignorant, retarded, stupid, go-dieinhell person"; then it can't even be further from tolerance. How about just not giving a shit about it? Why would anyone say he is gay or not, when noone is asking? As far as I know, basketball has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. This is at least the fault of gay-supporters than not. Bringing an issue up in completely irrelevant topics. No-one is asking questions about sexuality because the default assumption is that you're straight which, as a straight person, suits you just fine. This is called privilege, you can't see the issues because they don't impact you and therefore you conclude that there are no issues. However not everyone is straight, for some people the barrage of "you must be attracted to this", "you must be like this", "this is how a man is defined" comprises an unrelenting assault on their identity. You can dismiss things as having nothing to do with sexual preference because your sexual preference is aligned with the prevailing current and blends in seamlessly, other people are not so lucky. You don't have to understand what it feels like to have the "wrong" sexual preference, it's an alien concept to most people, but you ought to recognise your inherent hetero privilege. You get to see the world as not challenging your sexual identity because it doesn't challenge yours but that doesn't give you a platform to dismiss the experiences of others from.
This really sums up some of the frustration I've had reading the thread far more eloquently than I can ever put it. It's not a big deal for straights because they've never had to put up with it, and if they're tolerant, they likely don't have friends who are intolerant either.
There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of gay kids in the US who face real AND imaginary persecution when they're growing up as gay, and sport is one of the biggest bastions that has resisted becoming 'gay-friendly'. End of career or not, this IS a huge deal, maybe not to you (dear straight reader) but to people who understand it first hand and most importantly those growing up where they are still both legally and socially discriminated against because they are attracted to the 'wrong' sex.
edit: and I was somewhat amused by the guy from the UK last page or so who shook their head bemusedly at the difference between the US and Europe. I'm pretty grateful to be living in the UK which is by and large fairly tolerant, but I've been part of a few horrible incidents. Mathematically it's only a few horrible incidents out of thousands of normal interactions with society, but they do exist; homophobia very much isn't dead in 'liberal' countries like the UK.
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On May 01 2013 06:56 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. Because telling all the gay athletes that they should stay in the closet until after their career is over and they have no offers to play again before coming out is going to move us forward as a society? Thats the entire message this guy sent. Really? Sports is one of the main places that anti-gay sentiment has a home that is unquestioned, and to state that he should have toughed it out and possibly lost his career due to this sentiment by stating this earlier would be stupid. You want the guy to be a martyr and he isn't that, he isn't stupid enough to be one either. Being a martyr is great for anyone who wants to point to the cause, but terrible for the person who martyrs. This guy has done a lot just by coming out, don't try to down-play that by asking for something saintly, he's a human who needs to put food on the table and have a stable income too; if he did what you want he might have lost a lot more than a dwindling career.
EDIT: at s3rp, I miss Stromile , god I wish I had the 2004 grizz, I loved that team. Then Battier was traded, swift was traded and had an eh rest of his career, Lorenzen Wright was shot in the ghetto, Pau Gasol left after the Grizz couldn't keep up the magic, Jason Kidd got traded of course, and Mike Miller was traded for others. Of course now the Grizz are awesome and have a graduate of my school playing for them, but still, dem memories.
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Good for him, it shouldn't make a difference
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It's cool dont really care isnt he like a journeyman center so he is ok at what he does. I mean I would be surprised if he gets black listed for his sexual orientation.
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Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal.
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On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal.
By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that priviledge yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point?
Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective.
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On May 01 2013 07:46 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 07:08 Antyee wrote:On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. The very existence of this thread proves this wrong. When every third comment is basically "if you think there is something wrong with being gay, you are an ignorant, retarded, stupid, go-dieinhell person"; then it can't even be further from tolerance. How about just not giving a shit about it? Why would anyone say he is gay or not, when noone is asking? As far as I know, basketball has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. This is at least the fault of gay-supporters than not. Bringing an issue up in completely irrelevant topics. No-one is asking questions about sexuality because the default assumption is that you're straight which, as a straight person, suits you just fine. This is called privilege, you can't see the issues because they don't impact you and therefore you conclude that there are no issues. However not everyone is straight, for some people the barrage of "you must be attracted to this", "you must be like this", "this is how a man is defined" comprises an unrelenting assault on their identity. You can dismiss things as having nothing to do with sexual preference because your sexual preference is aligned with the prevailing current and blends in seamlessly, other people are not so lucky. You don't have to understand what it feels like to have the "wrong" sexual preference, it's an alien concept to most people, but you ought to recognise your inherent hetero privilege. You get to see the world as not challenging your sexual identity because it doesn't challenge yours but that doesn't give you a platform to dismiss the experiences of others from.
Yep. "Normal" is a bullshit word. All it does is remind those that aren't "normal" that everyone else isn't like them.
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On May 01 2013 07:08 Antyee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. The very existence of this thread proves this wrong. When every third comment is basically "if you think there is something wrong with being gay, you are an ignorant, retarded, stupid, go-dieinhell person"; then it can't even be further from tolerance. How about just not giving a shit about it? Why would anyone say he is gay or not, when noone is asking? As far as I know, basketball has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. This is at least the fault of gay-supporters than not. Bringing an issue up in completely irrelevant topics. While certainly people shouldn't be rude about presuading you to be more tolerant, I hope you're not advocating people just be tolerant of others being intolerant...? If so, well that can be pretty much said about anything. People are ofcourse free to their own thoughts, but when they start mistreating or in some way discriminate against people they've most certainly lost any rights of tolerance from society. I will agree though that it is a shame that this is actually news in this time and age, but first steps almost always are. Hopefully this will inspire others to not be afraid to come out.
Edit: About Mike Wallace, while his tweet was stupid, I do agree with him in a sense. When I look at a man, I don't understand gay guys, but that's why I'm not gay. So just a bit redundant tweet which just doesn't add anything(atleast good) to the discussion. Btw reading the thread I'm not sure about the showering. I mean I don't find anything wrong with gay dudes showering with straight men, but I still wonder why there is no attraction, if it's just maybe because they were brought up showering with other men so there was never any sexual tension there. I can atleast say that showering with a beautiful woman I dare say she will be pretty quick seeing my... enthusiasm
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On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that priviledge yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective.
I don't care if a human being is straight or not. Whatever their sexual orientation is should be personal. If he likes to take it in the ass so be it. If he likes pussy so be it.
who cares. Its personal.
People make too much of a big deal about stuff like this.
I think that hes doing it for media attention (which he succeeded at) and publicity which leads to more money.
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On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that priviledge yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective.
I'm sorry but being where I come from if you're white you are NOT privileged. Good luck getting welfare being white.
I'm not racist or prejudice and am properly more open minded than anyone in this thread but the honest truth is that people that base anything around a persons personal belief or the color of their skin is very close minded AND sexual orientation should be kept private I don't hear people running around talking about how they like dick or pussy.
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On May 01 2013 10:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that priviledge yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective. I'm sorry but being where I come from if you're white you are NOT privileged. Good luck getting welfare being white. I'm not racist or prejudice and am properly more open minded than anyone in this thread but the honest truth is that people that base anything around a persons personal belief or the color of their skin is very close minded AND sexual orientation should be kept private I don't hear people running around talking about how they like dick or pussy.
I guess you have never been to high-school or college then?
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It must have taken much courage for him to announce it.
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On May 01 2013 07:46 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 07:08 Antyee wrote:On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. The very existence of this thread proves this wrong. When every third comment is basically "if you think there is something wrong with being gay, you are an ignorant, retarded, stupid, go-dieinhell person"; then it can't even be further from tolerance. How about just not giving a shit about it? Why would anyone say he is gay or not, when noone is asking? As far as I know, basketball has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. This is at least the fault of gay-supporters than not. Bringing an issue up in completely irrelevant topics. No-one is asking questions about sexuality because the default assumption is that you're straight which, as a straight person, suits you just fine. This is called privilege, you can't see the issues because they don't impact you and therefore you conclude that there are no issues. However not everyone is straight, for some people the barrage of "you must be attracted to this", "you must be like this", "this is how a man is defined" comprises an unrelenting assault on their identity. You can dismiss things as having nothing to do with sexual preference because your sexual preference is aligned with the prevailing current and blends in seamlessly, other people are not so lucky. You don't have to understand what it feels like to have the "wrong" sexual preference, it's an alien concept to most people, but you ought to recognise your inherent hetero privilege. You get to see the world as not challenging your sexual identity because it doesn't challenge yours but that doesn't give you a platform to dismiss the experiences of others from. Stop talking about privilege, it's embarassing.
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"Cool" Is what I thought when I heard about his announcement.
It neither affects me personally nor whether I'll ever watch NBA. Cool.
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On May 01 2013 10:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 07:46 KwarK wrote:On May 01 2013 07:08 Antyee wrote:On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. The very existence of this thread proves this wrong. When every third comment is basically "if you think there is something wrong with being gay, you are an ignorant, retarded, stupid, go-dieinhell person"; then it can't even be further from tolerance. How about just not giving a shit about it? Why would anyone say he is gay or not, when noone is asking? As far as I know, basketball has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. This is at least the fault of gay-supporters than not. Bringing an issue up in completely irrelevant topics. No-one is asking questions about sexuality because the default assumption is that you're straight which, as a straight person, suits you just fine. This is called privilege, you can't see the issues because they don't impact you and therefore you conclude that there are no issues. However not everyone is straight, for some people the barrage of "you must be attracted to this", "you must be like this", "this is how a man is defined" comprises an unrelenting assault on their identity. You can dismiss things as having nothing to do with sexual preference because your sexual preference is aligned with the prevailing current and blends in seamlessly, other people are not so lucky. You don't have to understand what it feels like to have the "wrong" sexual preference, it's an alien concept to most people, but you ought to recognise your inherent hetero privilege. You get to see the world as not challenging your sexual identity because it doesn't challenge yours but that doesn't give you a platform to dismiss the experiences of others from. Stop talking about privilege, it's embarassing. The irony of it here is that kwark is talking about it correctly when most of the time its talked about incorrectly. Most of what gets talked about with privilege is simply taking it way to far and it becoming simply reverse racism or sexism.
Its a lot like feminism. Its a legitimate argument and ideology even if people take it too far most of the time and it gets a bad rap for that.
On May 01 2013 11:15 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 10:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote:On May 01 2013 07:46 KwarK wrote:On May 01 2013 07:08 Antyee wrote:On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. The very existence of this thread proves this wrong. When every third comment is basically "if you think there is something wrong with being gay, you are an ignorant, retarded, stupid, go-dieinhell person"; then it can't even be further from tolerance. How about just not giving a shit about it? Why would anyone say he is gay or not, when noone is asking? As far as I know, basketball has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. This is at least the fault of gay-supporters than not. Bringing an issue up in completely irrelevant topics. No-one is asking questions about sexuality because the default assumption is that you're straight which, as a straight person, suits you just fine. This is called privilege, you can't see the issues because they don't impact you and therefore you conclude that there are no issues. However not everyone is straight, for some people the barrage of "you must be attracted to this", "you must be like this", "this is how a man is defined" comprises an unrelenting assault on their identity. You can dismiss things as having nothing to do with sexual preference because your sexual preference is aligned with the prevailing current and blends in seamlessly, other people are not so lucky. You don't have to understand what it feels like to have the "wrong" sexual preference, it's an alien concept to most people, but you ought to recognise your inherent hetero privilege. You get to see the world as not challenging your sexual identity because it doesn't challenge yours but that doesn't give you a platform to dismiss the experiences of others from. Stop talking about privilege, it's embarassing. How is it embarrassing? Because almost all the time when people talk about privilege its used to shame white people for being raciest because they're white. Or to shame males because they're sexist for being males. Or to shame people who live in the country because they don't care about poor people in the city.
You can talk about it because its a thing but please don't use sexism and racism because your angry at racists or sexists, its embarrassing.
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On May 01 2013 10:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 07:46 KwarK wrote:On May 01 2013 07:08 Antyee wrote:On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. The very existence of this thread proves this wrong. When every third comment is basically "if you think there is something wrong with being gay, you are an ignorant, retarded, stupid, go-dieinhell person"; then it can't even be further from tolerance. How about just not giving a shit about it? Why would anyone say he is gay or not, when noone is asking? As far as I know, basketball has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. This is at least the fault of gay-supporters than not. Bringing an issue up in completely irrelevant topics. No-one is asking questions about sexuality because the default assumption is that you're straight which, as a straight person, suits you just fine. This is called privilege, you can't see the issues because they don't impact you and therefore you conclude that there are no issues. However not everyone is straight, for some people the barrage of "you must be attracted to this", "you must be like this", "this is how a man is defined" comprises an unrelenting assault on their identity. You can dismiss things as having nothing to do with sexual preference because your sexual preference is aligned with the prevailing current and blends in seamlessly, other people are not so lucky. You don't have to understand what it feels like to have the "wrong" sexual preference, it's an alien concept to most people, but you ought to recognise your inherent hetero privilege. You get to see the world as not challenging your sexual identity because it doesn't challenge yours but that doesn't give you a platform to dismiss the experiences of others from. Stop talking about privilege, it's embarassing. How is it embarrassing?
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On May 01 2013 10:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that privilege yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective. I'm sorry but being where I come from if you're white you are NOT privileged. Good luck getting welfare being white. I'm not racist or prejudice and am properly more open minded than anyone in this thread but the honest truth is that people that base anything around a persons personal belief or the color of their skin is very close minded AND sexual orientation should be kept private I don't hear people running around talking about how they like dick or pussy.
I actually hear about it all the time. Maybe no one says "I like dick/pussy/both. I mean I REALLY like dick/pussy/both. Did I ever tell you how much I like dick/pussy/both?" but people certainly do (and certainly should be able to) say "Wow - check out the hottie at the bar." Step out of the equation and think about it for a second.
That's fine if you come from an area where white people were historically oppressed (where is this again?) but obfuscating the point isn't a defense of your argument. Historically - homosexuality has been maligned the world over - but no one has ever significantly oppressed heterosexuality. As a heterosexual individual you have NEVER been afraid for your personal physical or emotional well-being due to your sexuality. It's not the same with any other orientation. Saying "We should just ignore it because it doesn't matter" is not an option for those people - because, unfortunately for them, it DOES matter, not only because there are still assholes in the world who claim homosexuals are the antichrist or whatever, but also because they should be able to go to the bar and say "DAMN, look at that sexy manmuffin" without anyone saying "Ew, nobody asked about that keep it to yourself."
Anyways heres a relevant quote from Stephen Fry "“At least 260 species of animal have been noted exhibiting homosexual behaviour but only one species of animal ever, so far as we know, has exhibited homophobic behaviour — and that’s the human being. So ask which is really natural.”
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On May 01 2013 10:53 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 10:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote:On May 01 2013 07:46 KwarK wrote:On May 01 2013 07:08 Antyee wrote:On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. The very existence of this thread proves this wrong. When every third comment is basically "if you think there is something wrong with being gay, you are an ignorant, retarded, stupid, go-dieinhell person"; then it can't even be further from tolerance. How about just not giving a shit about it? Why would anyone say he is gay or not, when noone is asking? As far as I know, basketball has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. This is at least the fault of gay-supporters than not. Bringing an issue up in completely irrelevant topics. No-one is asking questions about sexuality because the default assumption is that you're straight which, as a straight person, suits you just fine. This is called privilege, you can't see the issues because they don't impact you and therefore you conclude that there are no issues. However not everyone is straight, for some people the barrage of "you must be attracted to this", "you must be like this", "this is how a man is defined" comprises an unrelenting assault on their identity. You can dismiss things as having nothing to do with sexual preference because your sexual preference is aligned with the prevailing current and blends in seamlessly, other people are not so lucky. You don't have to understand what it feels like to have the "wrong" sexual preference, it's an alien concept to most people, but you ought to recognise your inherent hetero privilege. You get to see the world as not challenging your sexual identity because it doesn't challenge yours but that doesn't give you a platform to dismiss the experiences of others from. Stop talking about privilege, it's embarassing. The irony of it here is that kwark is talking about it correctly when most of the time its talked about incorrectly. Most of what gets talked about with privilege is simply taking it way to far and it becoming simply reverse racism or sexism. Its a lot like feminism. Its a legitimate argument and ideology even if people take it too far most of the time and it gets a bad rap for that. Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 11:15 farvacola wrote:On May 01 2013 10:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote:On May 01 2013 07:46 KwarK wrote:On May 01 2013 07:08 Antyee wrote:On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. The very existence of this thread proves this wrong. When every third comment is basically "if you think there is something wrong with being gay, you are an ignorant, retarded, stupid, go-dieinhell person"; then it can't even be further from tolerance. How about just not giving a shit about it? Why would anyone say he is gay or not, when noone is asking? As far as I know, basketball has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. This is at least the fault of gay-supporters than not. Bringing an issue up in completely irrelevant topics. No-one is asking questions about sexuality because the default assumption is that you're straight which, as a straight person, suits you just fine. This is called privilege, you can't see the issues because they don't impact you and therefore you conclude that there are no issues. However not everyone is straight, for some people the barrage of "you must be attracted to this", "you must be like this", "this is how a man is defined" comprises an unrelenting assault on their identity. You can dismiss things as having nothing to do with sexual preference because your sexual preference is aligned with the prevailing current and blends in seamlessly, other people are not so lucky. You don't have to understand what it feels like to have the "wrong" sexual preference, it's an alien concept to most people, but you ought to recognise your inherent hetero privilege. You get to see the world as not challenging your sexual identity because it doesn't challenge yours but that doesn't give you a platform to dismiss the experiences of others from. Stop talking about privilege, it's embarassing. How is it embarrassing? Because almost all the time when people talk about privilege its used to shame white people for being raciest because they're white. Or to shame males because they're sexist for being males. Or to shame people who live in the country because they don't care about poor people in the city. You can talk about it because its a thing but please don't use sexism and racism because your angry at racists or sexists, its embarrassing. Because people improperly talk about privilege does not make talking about privilege embarrassing in general. Furthermore, KwarK's post approaches the topic in a diplomatic and appropriate manner, further reinforcing the notion that this LurkersGonnaLurk's "don't do this, it's embrassing" statement amounts to little more than stupidity.
"almost all the time" almost always means "in my experience" anyhow.
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On May 01 2013 10:53 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 10:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote:On May 01 2013 07:46 KwarK wrote:On May 01 2013 07:08 Antyee wrote:On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. The very existence of this thread proves this wrong. When every third comment is basically "if you think there is something wrong with being gay, you are an ignorant, retarded, stupid, go-dieinhell person"; then it can't even be further from tolerance. How about just not giving a shit about it? Why would anyone say he is gay or not, when noone is asking? As far as I know, basketball has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. This is at least the fault of gay-supporters than not. Bringing an issue up in completely irrelevant topics. No-one is asking questions about sexuality because the default assumption is that you're straight which, as a straight person, suits you just fine. This is called privilege, you can't see the issues because they don't impact you and therefore you conclude that there are no issues. However not everyone is straight, for some people the barrage of "you must be attracted to this", "you must be like this", "this is how a man is defined" comprises an unrelenting assault on their identity. You can dismiss things as having nothing to do with sexual preference because your sexual preference is aligned with the prevailing current and blends in seamlessly, other people are not so lucky. You don't have to understand what it feels like to have the "wrong" sexual preference, it's an alien concept to most people, but you ought to recognise your inherent hetero privilege. You get to see the world as not challenging your sexual identity because it doesn't challenge yours but that doesn't give you a platform to dismiss the experiences of others from. Stop talking about privilege, it's embarassing. The irony of it here is that kwark is talking about it correctly when most of the time its talked about incorrectly. Most of what gets talked about with privilege is simply taking it way to far and it becoming simply reverse racism or sexism. Its a lot like feminism. Its a legitimate argument and ideology even if people take it too far most of the time and it gets a bad rap for that. Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 11:15 farvacola wrote:On May 01 2013 10:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote:On May 01 2013 07:46 KwarK wrote:On May 01 2013 07:08 Antyee wrote:On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. The very existence of this thread proves this wrong. When every third comment is basically "if you think there is something wrong with being gay, you are an ignorant, retarded, stupid, go-dieinhell person"; then it can't even be further from tolerance. How about just not giving a shit about it? Why would anyone say he is gay or not, when noone is asking? As far as I know, basketball has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. This is at least the fault of gay-supporters than not. Bringing an issue up in completely irrelevant topics. No-one is asking questions about sexuality because the default assumption is that you're straight which, as a straight person, suits you just fine. This is called privilege, you can't see the issues because they don't impact you and therefore you conclude that there are no issues. However not everyone is straight, for some people the barrage of "you must be attracted to this", "you must be like this", "this is how a man is defined" comprises an unrelenting assault on their identity. You can dismiss things as having nothing to do with sexual preference because your sexual preference is aligned with the prevailing current and blends in seamlessly, other people are not so lucky. You don't have to understand what it feels like to have the "wrong" sexual preference, it's an alien concept to most people, but you ought to recognise your inherent hetero privilege. You get to see the world as not challenging your sexual identity because it doesn't challenge yours but that doesn't give you a platform to dismiss the experiences of others from. Stop talking about privilege, it's embarassing. How is it embarrassing? Because almost all the time when people talk about privilege its used to shame white people for being raciest because they're white. Or to shame males because they're sexist for being males. Or to shame people who live in the country because they don't care about poor people in the city. You can talk about it because its a thing but please don't use sexism and racism because your angry at racists or sexists, its embarrassing.
I don't think that's quite what he means. Usually when we refer to something like "White Privilege" or "Heterosexual Privilege" we mean advantages you don't necessarily think about, or think about as advantages. No one is accusing you of anything - or trying to shame you - we just want you to step out of the Hermaneutical Circle if you will and think about things objectively. Whether you are racist or not (and it's most likely not) there are certain things that you may not have to deal with that others do and vice versa. No one is judging you don't worry ^_^! Everybody should love each other of course!
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On May 01 2013 10:26 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 10:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that priviledge yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective. I'm sorry but being where I come from if you're white you are NOT privileged. Good luck getting welfare being white. I'm not racist or prejudice and am properly more open minded than anyone in this thread but the honest truth is that people that base anything around a persons personal belief or the color of their skin is very close minded AND sexual orientation should be kept private I don't hear people running around talking about how they like dick or pussy. I guess you have never been to high-school or college then?
If your counter argument is based on 14-21 year old's talking about something they have little to no experience about... that is not very compelling evidence.
The thing most people have a problem with on this story is that if we disagree with his lifestyle, we get put into a stereotype of ignorance. I would spend more time on that hypocritical stance, but this is not the time or place.
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On May 01 2013 11:37 catabowl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 10:26 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On May 01 2013 10:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that priviledge yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective. I'm sorry but being where I come from if you're white you are NOT privileged. Good luck getting welfare being white. I'm not racist or prejudice and am properly more open minded than anyone in this thread but the honest truth is that people that base anything around a persons personal belief or the color of their skin is very close minded AND sexual orientation should be kept private I don't hear people running around talking about how they like dick or pussy. I guess you have never been to high-school or college then? If your counter argument is based on 14-21 year old's talking about something they have little to no experience about... that is not very compelling evidence. The thing most people have a problem with on this story is that if we disagree with his lifestyle, we get put into a stereotype of ignorance. I would spend more time on that hypocritical stance, but this is not the time or place.
Perhaps he didn't give the best example - but have you ever commented to a friend on how attractive you think a girl is? It doesn't have to be all "I liek peenis!"
Edit: Also - someone being gay is kind of a difficult thing to disagree with. I don't know how you would go about doing that. "No you aren't?"
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On May 01 2013 11:37 catabowl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 10:26 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On May 01 2013 10:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that priviledge yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective. I'm sorry but being where I come from if you're white you are NOT privileged. Good luck getting welfare being white. I'm not racist or prejudice and am properly more open minded than anyone in this thread but the honest truth is that people that base anything around a persons personal belief or the color of their skin is very close minded AND sexual orientation should be kept private I don't hear people running around talking about how they like dick or pussy. I guess you have never been to high-school or college then? If your counter argument is based on 14-21 year old's talking about something they have little to no experience about... that is not very compelling evidence. The thing most people have a problem with on this story is that if we disagree with his lifestyle, we get put into a stereotype of ignorance. I would spend more time on that hypocritical stance, but this is not the time or place.
Well of course you're considered ignorant. Disagreeing with someone's "gay lifestyle" is comparable to disagreeing with them for being born with brown eyes or white skin. Your position is entirely nonsensical but you expect us to agree with it as though it possesses any logic or evidence.
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On May 01 2013 11:35 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 10:53 Sermokala wrote:On May 01 2013 10:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote:On May 01 2013 07:46 KwarK wrote:On May 01 2013 07:08 Antyee wrote:On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. The very existence of this thread proves this wrong. When every third comment is basically "if you think there is something wrong with being gay, you are an ignorant, retarded, stupid, go-dieinhell person"; then it can't even be further from tolerance. How about just not giving a shit about it? Why would anyone say he is gay or not, when noone is asking? As far as I know, basketball has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. This is at least the fault of gay-supporters than not. Bringing an issue up in completely irrelevant topics. No-one is asking questions about sexuality because the default assumption is that you're straight which, as a straight person, suits you just fine. This is called privilege, you can't see the issues because they don't impact you and therefore you conclude that there are no issues. However not everyone is straight, for some people the barrage of "you must be attracted to this", "you must be like this", "this is how a man is defined" comprises an unrelenting assault on their identity. You can dismiss things as having nothing to do with sexual preference because your sexual preference is aligned with the prevailing current and blends in seamlessly, other people are not so lucky. You don't have to understand what it feels like to have the "wrong" sexual preference, it's an alien concept to most people, but you ought to recognise your inherent hetero privilege. You get to see the world as not challenging your sexual identity because it doesn't challenge yours but that doesn't give you a platform to dismiss the experiences of others from. Stop talking about privilege, it's embarassing. The irony of it here is that kwark is talking about it correctly when most of the time its talked about incorrectly. Most of what gets talked about with privilege is simply taking it way to far and it becoming simply reverse racism or sexism. Its a lot like feminism. Its a legitimate argument and ideology even if people take it too far most of the time and it gets a bad rap for that. On May 01 2013 11:15 farvacola wrote:On May 01 2013 10:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote:On May 01 2013 07:46 KwarK wrote:On May 01 2013 07:08 Antyee wrote:On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. The very existence of this thread proves this wrong. When every third comment is basically "if you think there is something wrong with being gay, you are an ignorant, retarded, stupid, go-dieinhell person"; then it can't even be further from tolerance. How about just not giving a shit about it? Why would anyone say he is gay or not, when noone is asking? As far as I know, basketball has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. This is at least the fault of gay-supporters than not. Bringing an issue up in completely irrelevant topics. No-one is asking questions about sexuality because the default assumption is that you're straight which, as a straight person, suits you just fine. This is called privilege, you can't see the issues because they don't impact you and therefore you conclude that there are no issues. However not everyone is straight, for some people the barrage of "you must be attracted to this", "you must be like this", "this is how a man is defined" comprises an unrelenting assault on their identity. You can dismiss things as having nothing to do with sexual preference because your sexual preference is aligned with the prevailing current and blends in seamlessly, other people are not so lucky. You don't have to understand what it feels like to have the "wrong" sexual preference, it's an alien concept to most people, but you ought to recognise your inherent hetero privilege. You get to see the world as not challenging your sexual identity because it doesn't challenge yours but that doesn't give you a platform to dismiss the experiences of others from. Stop talking about privilege, it's embarassing. How is it embarrassing? Because almost all the time when people talk about privilege its used to shame white people for being raciest because they're white. Or to shame males because they're sexist for being males. Or to shame people who live in the country because they don't care about poor people in the city. You can talk about it because its a thing but please don't use sexism and racism because your angry at racists or sexists, its embarrassing. Because people improperly talk about privilege does not make talking about privilege embarrassing in general. Furthermore, KwarK's post approaches the topic in a diplomatic and appropriate manner, further reinforcing the notion that this LurkersGonnaLurk's "don't do this, it's embrassing" statement amounts to little more than stupidity. "almost all the time" almost always means "in my experience" anyhow. Well yeah. "in my experience" is probably relating heavily to "in his experience" and so I was trying to relate how automatically assuming that what kwark was doing was embarrassing is about the same as assuming anyone talking about feminism is automatically doing something that's embarrassing.
On May 01 2013 11:37 Arghmyliver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 10:53 Sermokala wrote:On May 01 2013 10:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote:On May 01 2013 07:46 KwarK wrote:On May 01 2013 07:08 Antyee wrote:On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. The very existence of this thread proves this wrong. When every third comment is basically "if you think there is something wrong with being gay, you are an ignorant, retarded, stupid, go-dieinhell person"; then it can't even be further from tolerance. How about just not giving a shit about it? Why would anyone say he is gay or not, when noone is asking? As far as I know, basketball has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. This is at least the fault of gay-supporters than not. Bringing an issue up in completely irrelevant topics. No-one is asking questions about sexuality because the default assumption is that you're straight which, as a straight person, suits you just fine. This is called privilege, you can't see the issues because they don't impact you and therefore you conclude that there are no issues. However not everyone is straight, for some people the barrage of "you must be attracted to this", "you must be like this", "this is how a man is defined" comprises an unrelenting assault on their identity. You can dismiss things as having nothing to do with sexual preference because your sexual preference is aligned with the prevailing current and blends in seamlessly, other people are not so lucky. You don't have to understand what it feels like to have the "wrong" sexual preference, it's an alien concept to most people, but you ought to recognise your inherent hetero privilege. You get to see the world as not challenging your sexual identity because it doesn't challenge yours but that doesn't give you a platform to dismiss the experiences of others from. Stop talking about privilege, it's embarassing. The irony of it here is that kwark is talking about it correctly when most of the time its talked about incorrectly. Most of what gets talked about with privilege is simply taking it way to far and it becoming simply reverse racism or sexism. Its a lot like feminism. Its a legitimate argument and ideology even if people take it too far most of the time and it gets a bad rap for that. On May 01 2013 11:15 farvacola wrote:On May 01 2013 10:47 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote:On May 01 2013 07:46 KwarK wrote:On May 01 2013 07:08 Antyee wrote:On May 01 2013 06:49 FallDownMarigold wrote:On May 01 2013 06:25 ampson wrote: If we were a truly tolerant society, wouldn't we not give a mediocre basketball player heaps of attention and praise for the sole reason that he is gay? If sexual orientation doesn't matter, why is this man a "hero" or anything of the sort? I mean, it's cool that the dude can be openly gay and all, but it doesn't make him better than any other guy and it's certainly not newsworthy even on a local level, much less a national one. Of course. Unfortunately we are not a truly tolerant society. We are working toward that end. Many of us are already there as individuals, but on the whole, we still have many many people who are straggling behind who require a lot of help to move forward with the rest of us, which is why something like this hits the news. The very existence of this thread proves this wrong. When every third comment is basically "if you think there is something wrong with being gay, you are an ignorant, retarded, stupid, go-dieinhell person"; then it can't even be further from tolerance. How about just not giving a shit about it? Why would anyone say he is gay or not, when noone is asking? As far as I know, basketball has nothing to do with your sexual preferences. This is at least the fault of gay-supporters than not. Bringing an issue up in completely irrelevant topics. No-one is asking questions about sexuality because the default assumption is that you're straight which, as a straight person, suits you just fine. This is called privilege, you can't see the issues because they don't impact you and therefore you conclude that there are no issues. However not everyone is straight, for some people the barrage of "you must be attracted to this", "you must be like this", "this is how a man is defined" comprises an unrelenting assault on their identity. You can dismiss things as having nothing to do with sexual preference because your sexual preference is aligned with the prevailing current and blends in seamlessly, other people are not so lucky. You don't have to understand what it feels like to have the "wrong" sexual preference, it's an alien concept to most people, but you ought to recognise your inherent hetero privilege. You get to see the world as not challenging your sexual identity because it doesn't challenge yours but that doesn't give you a platform to dismiss the experiences of others from. Stop talking about privilege, it's embarassing. How is it embarrassing? Because almost all the time when people talk about privilege its used to shame white people for being raciest because they're white. Or to shame males because they're sexist for being males. Or to shame people who live in the country because they don't care about poor people in the city. You can talk about it because its a thing but please don't use sexism and racism because your angry at racists or sexists, its embarrassing. I don't think that's quite what he means. Usually when we refer to something like "White Privilege" or "Heterosexual Privilege" we mean advantages you don't necessarily think about, or think about as advantages. No is accusing you of anything - or trying to shame you - we just want you to step out of the Hermaneutical Circle if you will and think about things objectively. Whether you are racist or not (and it's most likely not) there are certain things that you may not have to deal with that others do and vice versa. No one is judging you don't worry ^_^! Everybody should love each other of course! Yeah for most people its not hard expressing that there is double standards in society when everyone can see it. The problem lies in communicating somehow to stop "white or heterosexual privilege" without going off the rails in a mirad of different ways.
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On May 01 2013 11:48 Sermokala wrote: Yeah for most people its not hard expressing that there is double standards in society when everyone can see it. The problem lies in communicating somehow to stop "white or heterosexual privilege" without going off the rails in a mirad of different ways.
I think it's often easy to react without considering it. I wouldn't know exactly how to go about stopping it since it's such an insidious thing - but in the meantime I think it's something everyone needs to be conscientious of especially in conversations like this.
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On May 01 2013 11:37 catabowl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 10:26 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On May 01 2013 10:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that priviledge yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective. I'm sorry but being where I come from if you're white you are NOT privileged. Good luck getting welfare being white. I'm not racist or prejudice and am properly more open minded than anyone in this thread but the honest truth is that people that base anything around a persons personal belief or the color of their skin is very close minded AND sexual orientation should be kept private I don't hear people running around talking about how they like dick or pussy. I guess you have never been to high-school or college then? If your counter argument is based on 14-21 year old's talking about something they have little to no experience about... that is not very compelling evidence. The thing most people have a problem with on this story is that if we disagree with his lifestyle, we get put into a stereotype of ignorance. I would spend more time on that hypocritical stance, but this is not the time or place.
Well a lot of people on this site fit the 14-21 age group so I figured that you also would have gone through at least high-school and probably college in which case you would realize that it is a lot easier to say "Julia has a nice ass" than it is to say "Justin has a nice ass" when you are with your friends (as a guy). Most people have just been so hetero-normalized that they don't realize how much talk about the opposite sex goes on. I swear I can't go a day without hearing guys say 'I'd tap that" at least 10 times. Things like sports players coming out helps homosexual people feel more comfortable talking about their sexuality so they definitely shouldn't keep it private as SjPhotoGrapher would like.
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On May 01 2013 12:08 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 11:37 catabowl wrote:On May 01 2013 10:26 TotalBalanceSC2 wrote:On May 01 2013 10:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that priviledge yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective. I'm sorry but being where I come from if you're white you are NOT privileged. Good luck getting welfare being white. I'm not racist or prejudice and am properly more open minded than anyone in this thread but the honest truth is that people that base anything around a persons personal belief or the color of their skin is very close minded AND sexual orientation should be kept private I don't hear people running around talking about how they like dick or pussy. I guess you have never been to high-school or college then? If your counter argument is based on 14-21 year old's talking about something they have little to no experience about... that is not very compelling evidence. The thing most people have a problem with on this story is that if we disagree with his lifestyle, we get put into a stereotype of ignorance. I would spend more time on that hypocritical stance, but this is not the time or place. Well a lot of people on this site fit the 14-21 age group so I figured that you also would have gone through at least high-school and probably college in which case you would realize that it is a lot easier to say "Julia has a nice ass" than it is to say "Justin has a nice ass" when you are with your friends (as a guy). Most people have just been so hetero-normalized that they don't realize how much talk about the opposite sex goes on. I swear I can't go a day without hearing guys say 'I'd tap that" at least 10 times. Things like sports players coming out helps homosexual people feel more comfortable talking about their sexuality so they definitely shouldn't keep it private as SjPhotoGrapher would like.
Let's say i am gay in a group of hetero friends. I wouldn't have said "justin has a nice ass" because even if they were tolerant they wouldn't understand me. But i am pretty sure gays say that kinda things often if they are all in group of gay friends.
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United States40776 Posts
On May 01 2013 10:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that priviledge yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective. I'm sorry but being where I come from if you're white you are NOT privileged. Good luck getting welfare being white. I'm not racist or prejudice and am properly more open minded than anyone in this thread but the honest truth is that people that base anything around a persons personal belief or the color of their skin is very close minded AND sexual orientation should be kept private I don't hear people running around talking about how they like dick or pussy. It's great that you feel that way but most of society doesn't seem to have gotten the memo. If you can succeed in completely divorcing sexuality from human social interactions then we can all just be people and not need labels until we're in the bedroom. But unfortunately for now society is still modelled on the assumption that you are straight, not talking about sexuality is simply aligning yourself with that current rather than dismissing it.
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The timing looks too much like a stunt to try and artificially extend his career.
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On May 01 2013 17:03 Mallard86 wrote: The timing looks too much like a stunt to try and artificially extend his career. Jason Collins was engaged to woman back in 2009 so he was not going to come out then. Perhaps he should have come out a year or two earlier, but there are presumably many players who played in silence and continue to do so. Rather than bashing him for coming out too late, lets applaud him for coming out at all. It took a lot of bravery.
There are legitimate questions about whether he is good enough to be in the league next year. The guy made the league last 13 years or so, but his stats were abysmal last year. If he does not end up making a roster it would take away from him being the first active gay player in the NBA, but regardless of what happens it took a lot of courage for him to do this.
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Anyone else read the topic title in the TL sidebar as "First Openly Gay Protoss..."
I was disappointed when I clicked on the link. But anyway, yea, props to Jason Collins!
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On May 01 2013 01:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 00:09 Sermokala wrote:On April 30 2013 22:33 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 11:56 Sermokala wrote: I was quite disipointed by this. Jackie Robinson (first black athlete in US sports with white people) was a superstar in the prime of his career when he strove forward race relations in this nation. He was spat on and insulted by every other team and the fans across the nation.
This guy is going to cash in greatly, never have to play another game again in his life, received a phone call from the president, and will be able to push out of the business anyone who says an odd word to him now, all from day 1 of coming out at the end of anything public that he had to do in his life.
But of course they're the same thing for civil rights in america.
Edit: I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he obviously made the best decision he could ever have made. Being in the NBA for that long takes a ton of talent, work ethic, and skill. I just don't see the real difference between him and the other retired openly gay professional athletes that have come out over the years when their career was over. The guy simply isn't an active Athlete in a major american sport. First, this is like saying you're disappointed because "Rosa Parks was just a nobody. Who cares how she was treated on a bus?" I think it's actually more critical that Collins is a non-superstar athlete because it'll show more about people's character in how they treat him. If he were a superstar, people acquiesce to him no matter what, even hiding their homophobia. Because he's not a great player nor is he essential, people's true feelings are more likely to be revealed. I've heard people talk about him "cashing in" on a book deal or something. He's made $30+ million playing basketball and he'll make 1.35m if he gets another year. He may be doing it for publicity, but I don't think money is his motivation. The difference is that he's not retired. His career might be dwindling, but he has the chance to play for another year or two and make millions more dollars. It's less of a risk than someone in their prime coming out, but that's exactly why they don't. To date, I think this is the biggest risk a gay athlete has ever taken in coming out publicly. It might not be big enough for your liking, but your liking kind of sucks. Are you high? "peoples true feelings might be revealed"? Anyone that talks anything bad about this guy is going to be instantly hounded by everyone. This isn't some rosa parks "gee I might die from sitting in the front of the bus" this is some guy whos at the end of his career coming out because hes got nothing to lose and a ton to gain from it. Nike has said they have a large deal waiting for the first guy coming out and his net worth just exploded if he can brand him self as the "first openly gay active athlete in US major mens sports history. Even if he isn't that thing hes still going to be wildly celebrated for some reason. There is literally no risk to this guy coming out and you are completely mad if you think there is. No reason to insult me because I'm not on the same bandwagon of hope you do. You sound like some sheltered, rich, white guy that doesn't understand how the real world works. Do you also think that racism doesn't exist anymore? That women are actually treated equal to men in most aspects of society? That minority children don't suffer disproportionately from poverty? No risk for a public figure coming out as openly homosexual? You need to get out more.
Im a minority that lives in one of the poorest neighborhoods in the country and I think he has a point. People who are treating this thing like a landmark civil rights moment are just illogical. Sure there are risks but there are (as several people have mentioned) many many benefits to the decision.
On May 01 2013 17:03 Mallard86 wrote: The timing looks too much like a stunt to try and artificially extend his career.
This is very true. It would be nice to live in a world where this wouldn't be an issue that had to be talked about.
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On May 02 2013 00:30 Anesthetic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 01:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On May 01 2013 00:09 Sermokala wrote:On April 30 2013 22:33 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 11:56 Sermokala wrote: I was quite disipointed by this. Jackie Robinson (first black athlete in US sports with white people) was a superstar in the prime of his career when he strove forward race relations in this nation. He was spat on and insulted by every other team and the fans across the nation.
This guy is going to cash in greatly, never have to play another game again in his life, received a phone call from the president, and will be able to push out of the business anyone who says an odd word to him now, all from day 1 of coming out at the end of anything public that he had to do in his life.
But of course they're the same thing for civil rights in america.
Edit: I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he obviously made the best decision he could ever have made. Being in the NBA for that long takes a ton of talent, work ethic, and skill. I just don't see the real difference between him and the other retired openly gay professional athletes that have come out over the years when their career was over. The guy simply isn't an active Athlete in a major american sport. First, this is like saying you're disappointed because "Rosa Parks was just a nobody. Who cares how she was treated on a bus?" I think it's actually more critical that Collins is a non-superstar athlete because it'll show more about people's character in how they treat him. If he were a superstar, people acquiesce to him no matter what, even hiding their homophobia. Because he's not a great player nor is he essential, people's true feelings are more likely to be revealed. I've heard people talk about him "cashing in" on a book deal or something. He's made $30+ million playing basketball and he'll make 1.35m if he gets another year. He may be doing it for publicity, but I don't think money is his motivation. The difference is that he's not retired. His career might be dwindling, but he has the chance to play for another year or two and make millions more dollars. It's less of a risk than someone in their prime coming out, but that's exactly why they don't. To date, I think this is the biggest risk a gay athlete has ever taken in coming out publicly. It might not be big enough for your liking, but your liking kind of sucks. Are you high? "peoples true feelings might be revealed"? Anyone that talks anything bad about this guy is going to be instantly hounded by everyone. This isn't some rosa parks "gee I might die from sitting in the front of the bus" this is some guy whos at the end of his career coming out because hes got nothing to lose and a ton to gain from it. Nike has said they have a large deal waiting for the first guy coming out and his net worth just exploded if he can brand him self as the "first openly gay active athlete in US major mens sports history. Even if he isn't that thing hes still going to be wildly celebrated for some reason. There is literally no risk to this guy coming out and you are completely mad if you think there is. No reason to insult me because I'm not on the same bandwagon of hope you do. You sound like some sheltered, rich, white guy that doesn't understand how the real world works. Do you also think that racism doesn't exist anymore? That women are actually treated equal to men in most aspects of society? That minority children don't suffer disproportionately from poverty? No risk for a public figure coming out as openly homosexual? You need to get out more. Im a minority that lives in one of the poorest neighborhoods in the country and I think he has a point. People who are treating this thing like a landmark civil rights moment are just illogical. Sure there are risks but there are (as several people have mentioned) many many benefits to the decision. Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 17:03 Mallard86 wrote: The timing looks too much like a stunt to try and artificially extend his career. This is very true. It would be nice to live in a world where this wouldn't be an issue that had to be talked about.
Yes, it would be nice to live in a world where people could just be happy that that Mr Collins doesn't have to live a lie anymore. But no, we live in a world where courageous personal confessions are written off as publicity stunts and the struggle of a minority is yet again marginalized.
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Miami Dolphins Wide Reciever Mike Wallace: “All these beautiful women in the world and guys wanna mess with other guys.”
haha, this is funny
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On May 02 2013 00:39 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 00:30 Anesthetic wrote:On May 01 2013 01:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On May 01 2013 00:09 Sermokala wrote:On April 30 2013 22:33 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 11:56 Sermokala wrote: I was quite disipointed by this. Jackie Robinson (first black athlete in US sports with white people) was a superstar in the prime of his career when he strove forward race relations in this nation. He was spat on and insulted by every other team and the fans across the nation.
This guy is going to cash in greatly, never have to play another game again in his life, received a phone call from the president, and will be able to push out of the business anyone who says an odd word to him now, all from day 1 of coming out at the end of anything public that he had to do in his life.
But of course they're the same thing for civil rights in america.
Edit: I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he obviously made the best decision he could ever have made. Being in the NBA for that long takes a ton of talent, work ethic, and skill. I just don't see the real difference between him and the other retired openly gay professional athletes that have come out over the years when their career was over. The guy simply isn't an active Athlete in a major american sport. First, this is like saying you're disappointed because "Rosa Parks was just a nobody. Who cares how she was treated on a bus?" I think it's actually more critical that Collins is a non-superstar athlete because it'll show more about people's character in how they treat him. If he were a superstar, people acquiesce to him no matter what, even hiding their homophobia. Because he's not a great player nor is he essential, people's true feelings are more likely to be revealed. I've heard people talk about him "cashing in" on a book deal or something. He's made $30+ million playing basketball and he'll make 1.35m if he gets another year. He may be doing it for publicity, but I don't think money is his motivation. The difference is that he's not retired. His career might be dwindling, but he has the chance to play for another year or two and make millions more dollars. It's less of a risk than someone in their prime coming out, but that's exactly why they don't. To date, I think this is the biggest risk a gay athlete has ever taken in coming out publicly. It might not be big enough for your liking, but your liking kind of sucks. Are you high? "peoples true feelings might be revealed"? Anyone that talks anything bad about this guy is going to be instantly hounded by everyone. This isn't some rosa parks "gee I might die from sitting in the front of the bus" this is some guy whos at the end of his career coming out because hes got nothing to lose and a ton to gain from it. Nike has said they have a large deal waiting for the first guy coming out and his net worth just exploded if he can brand him self as the "first openly gay active athlete in US major mens sports history. Even if he isn't that thing hes still going to be wildly celebrated for some reason. There is literally no risk to this guy coming out and you are completely mad if you think there is. No reason to insult me because I'm not on the same bandwagon of hope you do. You sound like some sheltered, rich, white guy that doesn't understand how the real world works. Do you also think that racism doesn't exist anymore? That women are actually treated equal to men in most aspects of society? That minority children don't suffer disproportionately from poverty? No risk for a public figure coming out as openly homosexual? You need to get out more. Im a minority that lives in one of the poorest neighborhoods in the country and I think he has a point. People who are treating this thing like a landmark civil rights moment are just illogical. Sure there are risks but there are (as several people have mentioned) many many benefits to the decision. On May 01 2013 17:03 Mallard86 wrote: The timing looks too much like a stunt to try and artificially extend his career. This is very true. It would be nice to live in a world where this wouldn't be an issue that had to be talked about. Yes, it would be nice to live in a world where people could just be happy that that Mr Collins doesn't have to live a lie anymore. But no, we live in a world where courageous personal confessions are written off as publicity stunts and the struggle of a minority is yet again marginalized.
I hardly think that this compares at all to struggles that minorities have had to face in the past. At this point there IS a chance that this decision to come out as gay could actually be for financial gain. Many people in the thread have already given examples of what economic benefits he could receive and people that are trying to say "NO, he is simply being courageous" while ignoring everything else being said in the thread are just as close minded as those you like to call bigots.
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On May 02 2013 00:45 Anesthetic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 00:39 Klondikebar wrote:On May 02 2013 00:30 Anesthetic wrote:On May 01 2013 01:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On May 01 2013 00:09 Sermokala wrote:On April 30 2013 22:33 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 11:56 Sermokala wrote: I was quite disipointed by this. Jackie Robinson (first black athlete in US sports with white people) was a superstar in the prime of his career when he strove forward race relations in this nation. He was spat on and insulted by every other team and the fans across the nation.
This guy is going to cash in greatly, never have to play another game again in his life, received a phone call from the president, and will be able to push out of the business anyone who says an odd word to him now, all from day 1 of coming out at the end of anything public that he had to do in his life.
But of course they're the same thing for civil rights in america.
Edit: I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he obviously made the best decision he could ever have made. Being in the NBA for that long takes a ton of talent, work ethic, and skill. I just don't see the real difference between him and the other retired openly gay professional athletes that have come out over the years when their career was over. The guy simply isn't an active Athlete in a major american sport. First, this is like saying you're disappointed because "Rosa Parks was just a nobody. Who cares how she was treated on a bus?" I think it's actually more critical that Collins is a non-superstar athlete because it'll show more about people's character in how they treat him. If he were a superstar, people acquiesce to him no matter what, even hiding their homophobia. Because he's not a great player nor is he essential, people's true feelings are more likely to be revealed. I've heard people talk about him "cashing in" on a book deal or something. He's made $30+ million playing basketball and he'll make 1.35m if he gets another year. He may be doing it for publicity, but I don't think money is his motivation. The difference is that he's not retired. His career might be dwindling, but he has the chance to play for another year or two and make millions more dollars. It's less of a risk than someone in their prime coming out, but that's exactly why they don't. To date, I think this is the biggest risk a gay athlete has ever taken in coming out publicly. It might not be big enough for your liking, but your liking kind of sucks. Are you high? "peoples true feelings might be revealed"? Anyone that talks anything bad about this guy is going to be instantly hounded by everyone. This isn't some rosa parks "gee I might die from sitting in the front of the bus" this is some guy whos at the end of his career coming out because hes got nothing to lose and a ton to gain from it. Nike has said they have a large deal waiting for the first guy coming out and his net worth just exploded if he can brand him self as the "first openly gay active athlete in US major mens sports history. Even if he isn't that thing hes still going to be wildly celebrated for some reason. There is literally no risk to this guy coming out and you are completely mad if you think there is. No reason to insult me because I'm not on the same bandwagon of hope you do. You sound like some sheltered, rich, white guy that doesn't understand how the real world works. Do you also think that racism doesn't exist anymore? That women are actually treated equal to men in most aspects of society? That minority children don't suffer disproportionately from poverty? No risk for a public figure coming out as openly homosexual? You need to get out more. Im a minority that lives in one of the poorest neighborhoods in the country and I think he has a point. People who are treating this thing like a landmark civil rights moment are just illogical. Sure there are risks but there are (as several people have mentioned) many many benefits to the decision. On May 01 2013 17:03 Mallard86 wrote: The timing looks too much like a stunt to try and artificially extend his career. This is very true. It would be nice to live in a world where this wouldn't be an issue that had to be talked about. Yes, it would be nice to live in a world where people could just be happy that that Mr Collins doesn't have to live a lie anymore. But no, we live in a world where courageous personal confessions are written off as publicity stunts and the struggle of a minority is yet again marginalized. I hardly think that this compares at all to struggles that minorities have had to face in the past. At this point there IS a chance that this decision to come out as gay could actually be for financial gain. Many people in the thread have already given examples of what economic benefits he could receive and people that are trying to say "NO, he is simply being courageous" while ignoring everything else being said in the thread are just as close minded as those you like to call bigots.
And you've chosen to ignore all of the responses to those people. QuanticHawk had an extremely thorough response. I think this thread is largely dead. All of the people who came in here to congratulate him have done so and left. All that's left are people grasping at straws and rehashing old, disproven arguments.
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On May 02 2013 01:01 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 00:45 Anesthetic wrote:On May 02 2013 00:39 Klondikebar wrote:On May 02 2013 00:30 Anesthetic wrote:On May 01 2013 01:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On May 01 2013 00:09 Sermokala wrote:On April 30 2013 22:33 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 11:56 Sermokala wrote: I was quite disipointed by this. Jackie Robinson (first black athlete in US sports with white people) was a superstar in the prime of his career when he strove forward race relations in this nation. He was spat on and insulted by every other team and the fans across the nation.
This guy is going to cash in greatly, never have to play another game again in his life, received a phone call from the president, and will be able to push out of the business anyone who says an odd word to him now, all from day 1 of coming out at the end of anything public that he had to do in his life.
But of course they're the same thing for civil rights in america.
Edit: I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he obviously made the best decision he could ever have made. Being in the NBA for that long takes a ton of talent, work ethic, and skill. I just don't see the real difference between him and the other retired openly gay professional athletes that have come out over the years when their career was over. The guy simply isn't an active Athlete in a major american sport. First, this is like saying you're disappointed because "Rosa Parks was just a nobody. Who cares how she was treated on a bus?" I think it's actually more critical that Collins is a non-superstar athlete because it'll show more about people's character in how they treat him. If he were a superstar, people acquiesce to him no matter what, even hiding their homophobia. Because he's not a great player nor is he essential, people's true feelings are more likely to be revealed. I've heard people talk about him "cashing in" on a book deal or something. He's made $30+ million playing basketball and he'll make 1.35m if he gets another year. He may be doing it for publicity, but I don't think money is his motivation. The difference is that he's not retired. His career might be dwindling, but he has the chance to play for another year or two and make millions more dollars. It's less of a risk than someone in their prime coming out, but that's exactly why they don't. To date, I think this is the biggest risk a gay athlete has ever taken in coming out publicly. It might not be big enough for your liking, but your liking kind of sucks. Are you high? "peoples true feelings might be revealed"? Anyone that talks anything bad about this guy is going to be instantly hounded by everyone. This isn't some rosa parks "gee I might die from sitting in the front of the bus" this is some guy whos at the end of his career coming out because hes got nothing to lose and a ton to gain from it. Nike has said they have a large deal waiting for the first guy coming out and his net worth just exploded if he can brand him self as the "first openly gay active athlete in US major mens sports history. Even if he isn't that thing hes still going to be wildly celebrated for some reason. There is literally no risk to this guy coming out and you are completely mad if you think there is. No reason to insult me because I'm not on the same bandwagon of hope you do. You sound like some sheltered, rich, white guy that doesn't understand how the real world works. Do you also think that racism doesn't exist anymore? That women are actually treated equal to men in most aspects of society? That minority children don't suffer disproportionately from poverty? No risk for a public figure coming out as openly homosexual? You need to get out more. Im a minority that lives in one of the poorest neighborhoods in the country and I think he has a point. People who are treating this thing like a landmark civil rights moment are just illogical. Sure there are risks but there are (as several people have mentioned) many many benefits to the decision. On May 01 2013 17:03 Mallard86 wrote: The timing looks too much like a stunt to try and artificially extend his career. This is very true. It would be nice to live in a world where this wouldn't be an issue that had to be talked about. Yes, it would be nice to live in a world where people could just be happy that that Mr Collins doesn't have to live a lie anymore. But no, we live in a world where courageous personal confessions are written off as publicity stunts and the struggle of a minority is yet again marginalized. I hardly think that this compares at all to struggles that minorities have had to face in the past. At this point there IS a chance that this decision to come out as gay could actually be for financial gain. Many people in the thread have already given examples of what economic benefits he could receive and people that are trying to say "NO, he is simply being courageous" while ignoring everything else being said in the thread are just as close minded as those you like to call bigots. And you've chosen to ignore all of the responses to those people. QuanticHawk had an extremely thorough response. I think this thread is largely dead. All of the people who came in here to congratulate him have done so and left. All that's left are people grasping at straws and rehashing old, disproven arguments. I simply still believe that there are benefits and possible underlying motives for this decision . if you disagree well then that's your opinion but please stop trying to force your beliefs on others. it'd be nice if we could just agree to disagree
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On May 02 2013 01:32 Anesthetic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 01:01 Klondikebar wrote:On May 02 2013 00:45 Anesthetic wrote:On May 02 2013 00:39 Klondikebar wrote:On May 02 2013 00:30 Anesthetic wrote:On May 01 2013 01:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On May 01 2013 00:09 Sermokala wrote:On April 30 2013 22:33 Jibba wrote:On April 30 2013 11:56 Sermokala wrote: I was quite disipointed by this. Jackie Robinson (first black athlete in US sports with white people) was a superstar in the prime of his career when he strove forward race relations in this nation. He was spat on and insulted by every other team and the fans across the nation.
This guy is going to cash in greatly, never have to play another game again in his life, received a phone call from the president, and will be able to push out of the business anyone who says an odd word to him now, all from day 1 of coming out at the end of anything public that he had to do in his life.
But of course they're the same thing for civil rights in america.
Edit: I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, he obviously made the best decision he could ever have made. Being in the NBA for that long takes a ton of talent, work ethic, and skill. I just don't see the real difference between him and the other retired openly gay professional athletes that have come out over the years when their career was over. The guy simply isn't an active Athlete in a major american sport. First, this is like saying you're disappointed because "Rosa Parks was just a nobody. Who cares how she was treated on a bus?" I think it's actually more critical that Collins is a non-superstar athlete because it'll show more about people's character in how they treat him. If he were a superstar, people acquiesce to him no matter what, even hiding their homophobia. Because he's not a great player nor is he essential, people's true feelings are more likely to be revealed. I've heard people talk about him "cashing in" on a book deal or something. He's made $30+ million playing basketball and he'll make 1.35m if he gets another year. He may be doing it for publicity, but I don't think money is his motivation. The difference is that he's not retired. His career might be dwindling, but he has the chance to play for another year or two and make millions more dollars. It's less of a risk than someone in their prime coming out, but that's exactly why they don't. To date, I think this is the biggest risk a gay athlete has ever taken in coming out publicly. It might not be big enough for your liking, but your liking kind of sucks. Are you high? "peoples true feelings might be revealed"? Anyone that talks anything bad about this guy is going to be instantly hounded by everyone. This isn't some rosa parks "gee I might die from sitting in the front of the bus" this is some guy whos at the end of his career coming out because hes got nothing to lose and a ton to gain from it. Nike has said they have a large deal waiting for the first guy coming out and his net worth just exploded if he can brand him self as the "first openly gay active athlete in US major mens sports history. Even if he isn't that thing hes still going to be wildly celebrated for some reason. There is literally no risk to this guy coming out and you are completely mad if you think there is. No reason to insult me because I'm not on the same bandwagon of hope you do. You sound like some sheltered, rich, white guy that doesn't understand how the real world works. Do you also think that racism doesn't exist anymore? That women are actually treated equal to men in most aspects of society? That minority children don't suffer disproportionately from poverty? No risk for a public figure coming out as openly homosexual? You need to get out more. Im a minority that lives in one of the poorest neighborhoods in the country and I think he has a point. People who are treating this thing like a landmark civil rights moment are just illogical. Sure there are risks but there are (as several people have mentioned) many many benefits to the decision. On May 01 2013 17:03 Mallard86 wrote: The timing looks too much like a stunt to try and artificially extend his career. This is very true. It would be nice to live in a world where this wouldn't be an issue that had to be talked about. Yes, it would be nice to live in a world where people could just be happy that that Mr Collins doesn't have to live a lie anymore. But no, we live in a world where courageous personal confessions are written off as publicity stunts and the struggle of a minority is yet again marginalized. I hardly think that this compares at all to struggles that minorities have had to face in the past. At this point there IS a chance that this decision to come out as gay could actually be for financial gain. Many people in the thread have already given examples of what economic benefits he could receive and people that are trying to say "NO, he is simply being courageous" while ignoring everything else being said in the thread are just as close minded as those you like to call bigots. And you've chosen to ignore all of the responses to those people. QuanticHawk had an extremely thorough response. I think this thread is largely dead. All of the people who came in here to congratulate him have done so and left. All that's left are people grasping at straws and rehashing old, disproven arguments. I simply still believe that there are benefits and possible underlying motives for this decision . if you disagree well then that's your opinion but please stop trying to force your beliefs on others. it'd be nice if we could just agree to disagree
Whether there are benefits is completely besides the point, which is what you're missing. This has been gone over if you would read the thread.
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On May 01 2013 11:29 Arghmyliver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 10:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that privilege yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective. I'm sorry but being where I come from if you're white you are NOT privileged. Good luck getting welfare being white. I'm not racist or prejudice and am properly more open minded than anyone in this thread but the honest truth is that people that base anything around a persons personal belief or the color of their skin is very close minded AND sexual orientation should be kept private I don't hear people running around talking about how they like dick or pussy. I actually hear about it all the time. Maybe no one says "I like dick/pussy/both. I mean I REALLY like dick/pussy/both. Did I ever tell you how much I like dick/pussy/both?" but people certainly do (and certainly should be able to) say "Wow - check out the hottie at the bar." Step out of the equation and think about it for a second. That's fine if you come from an area where white people were historically oppressed (where is this again?) but obfuscating the point isn't a defense of your argument. Historically - homosexuality has been maligned the world over - but no one has ever significantly oppressed heterosexuality. As a heterosexual individual you have NEVER been afraid for your personal physical or emotional well-being due to your sexuality. It's not the same with any other orientation. Saying "We should just ignore it because it doesn't matter" is not an option for those people - because, unfortunately for them, it DOES matter, not only because there are still assholes in the world who claim homosexuals are the antichrist or whatever, but also because they should be able to go to the bar and say "DAMN, look at that sexy manmuffin" without anyone saying "Ew, nobody asked about that keep it to yourself." Anyways heres a relevant quote from Stephen Fry "“At least 260 species of animal have been noted exhibiting homosexual behaviour but only one species of animal ever, so far as we know, has exhibited homophobic behaviour — and that’s the human being. So ask which is really natural.”
Whites were slaves during the times the egpytians were around and also during other time periods. The Jew's had it really, really bad as well as everyone knows.
Whites have it just as hard as black people it's just that there tends to be more black/hispanic people in low income areas and their children end up not being brought up properly and end up relying on welfare for their income. I actually know a black guy that gets welfare & section 8 and gets paid to live for free, does not have to work, plays games all day and has a child.
I have also witnessed white people filling out job applications checking off that they are hispanic when they told me that they're white and just lying about being hispanic so that they can get the job which actually works as some company's such as McD are paid to hire blacks/hispanics so that they get off welfare AND a lot of these places are ran by people that are prejudice.
So go try living in the ghetto and tell me that the white are not oppressed in certain places.
I'm far from racist/prejudice but anyone claiming that blacks have it "hard" grew up with rich or well off parents as it's a load of bull.
If someone says that they like dick or pussy who cares? It's all private talk I've yet to have a complete stranger walk up to me and tell me they like ass/tits/dick/ or anything as it's all private.
Also, most men would take offense to a gay man calling them hot and men have killed themselves over the fact that a man had a crush on them and told a bunch of people/
It would be like if a women went to a bar and she found out that another women was checking her out....the bottom line is that it's straight up offensive and sexual preference should be kept to yourself.
I know that for me if a guy liked me I would be offended.
If I was on the same basketball team as this player I would be offended as well when playing if I see him checking me out or anything whereas if he just kept his mouth shut it wouldn't bother me.
As for your last quote it's irrelevant to what I was/am saying and there are mistakes in evolutioon that could make something "gay" just like how some women hae facial hair or a mans body parts or are born with 2 heads.
I also don't believe in the notion of "natural" as everything can be labeled as natural as everything came/comes from the universe.
I also don't believe in the notion of death, there's only a changing of conditions.
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On May 03 2013 02:12 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 11:29 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 10:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that privilege yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective. I'm sorry but being where I come from if you're white you are NOT privileged. Good luck getting welfare being white. I'm not racist or prejudice and am properly more open minded than anyone in this thread but the honest truth is that people that base anything around a persons personal belief or the color of their skin is very close minded AND sexual orientation should be kept private I don't hear people running around talking about how they like dick or pussy. I actually hear about it all the time. Maybe no one says "I like dick/pussy/both. I mean I REALLY like dick/pussy/both. Did I ever tell you how much I like dick/pussy/both?" but people certainly do (and certainly should be able to) say "Wow - check out the hottie at the bar." Step out of the equation and think about it for a second. That's fine if you come from an area where white people were historically oppressed (where is this again?) but obfuscating the point isn't a defense of your argument. Historically - homosexuality has been maligned the world over - but no one has ever significantly oppressed heterosexuality. As a heterosexual individual you have NEVER been afraid for your personal physical or emotional well-being due to your sexuality. It's not the same with any other orientation. Saying "We should just ignore it because it doesn't matter" is not an option for those people - because, unfortunately for them, it DOES matter, not only because there are still assholes in the world who claim homosexuals are the antichrist or whatever, but also because they should be able to go to the bar and say "DAMN, look at that sexy manmuffin" without anyone saying "Ew, nobody asked about that keep it to yourself." Anyways heres a relevant quote from Stephen Fry "“At least 260 species of animal have been noted exhibiting homosexual behaviour but only one species of animal ever, so far as we know, has exhibited homophobic behaviour — and that’s the human being. So ask which is really natural.” Whites were slaves during the times the egpytians were around and also during other time periods. The Jew's had it really, really bad as well as everyone knows. If someone says that they like dick or pussy who cares? It's all private talk I've yet to have a complete stranger walk up to me and tell me they like ass/tits/dick/ or anything as it's all private. Also, most men would take offense to a gay man calling them hot and men have killed themselves over the fact that a man had a crush on them and told a bunch of people/ It would be like if a women went to a bar and she found out that another women was checking her out....the bottom line is that it's straight up offensive and sexual preference should be kept to yourself. I know that for me if a guy liked me I would be offended. If I was on the same basketball team as this player I would be offended as well when playing if I see him checking me out or anything whereas if he just kept his mouth shut it wouldn't bother me. Just because you think such topics ought to be relegated to the private sphere does not mean that society acts in such a way; it is a simple fact that male expressions of sexual attraction towards women are the only explicitly tolerated public displays of this kind, and this is inherently discriminatory.
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On May 03 2013 02:17 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 02:12 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On May 01 2013 11:29 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 10:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that privilege yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective. I'm sorry but being where I come from if you're white you are NOT privileged. Good luck getting welfare being white. I'm not racist or prejudice and am properly more open minded than anyone in this thread but the honest truth is that people that base anything around a persons personal belief or the color of their skin is very close minded AND sexual orientation should be kept private I don't hear people running around talking about how they like dick or pussy. I actually hear about it all the time. Maybe no one says "I like dick/pussy/both. I mean I REALLY like dick/pussy/both. Did I ever tell you how much I like dick/pussy/both?" but people certainly do (and certainly should be able to) say "Wow - check out the hottie at the bar." Step out of the equation and think about it for a second. That's fine if you come from an area where white people were historically oppressed (where is this again?) but obfuscating the point isn't a defense of your argument. Historically - homosexuality has been maligned the world over - but no one has ever significantly oppressed heterosexuality. As a heterosexual individual you have NEVER been afraid for your personal physical or emotional well-being due to your sexuality. It's not the same with any other orientation. Saying "We should just ignore it because it doesn't matter" is not an option for those people - because, unfortunately for them, it DOES matter, not only because there are still assholes in the world who claim homosexuals are the antichrist or whatever, but also because they should be able to go to the bar and say "DAMN, look at that sexy manmuffin" without anyone saying "Ew, nobody asked about that keep it to yourself." Anyways heres a relevant quote from Stephen Fry "“At least 260 species of animal have been noted exhibiting homosexual behaviour but only one species of animal ever, so far as we know, has exhibited homophobic behaviour — and that’s the human being. So ask which is really natural.” Whites were slaves during the times the egpytians were around and also during other time periods. The Jew's had it really, really bad as well as everyone knows. If someone says that they like dick or pussy who cares? It's all private talk I've yet to have a complete stranger walk up to me and tell me they like ass/tits/dick/ or anything as it's all private. Also, most men would take offense to a gay man calling them hot and men have killed themselves over the fact that a man had a crush on them and told a bunch of people/ It would be like if a women went to a bar and she found out that another women was checking her out....the bottom line is that it's straight up offensive and sexual preference should be kept to yourself. I know that for me if a guy liked me I would be offended. If I was on the same basketball team as this player I would be offended as well when playing if I see him checking me out or anything whereas if he just kept his mouth shut it wouldn't bother me. Just because you think such topics ought to be relegated to the private sphere does not mean that society acts in such a way; it is a simple fact that male expressions of sexual attraction towards women are the only explicitly tolerated public displays of this kind, and this is inherently discriminatory.
It does not manner if a guy found out another guy liked him most men would punch that man in the face. It's offensive/disgusting and plain right embarrassing if you're straight and find out that another man likes you.
Nobody gives a crap if someone is gay or straight I say keep it to yourself. Telling another man that you like them could get that man person killed or the other man might kill himself. Gays are an extreme minority.
I can tell you now that if a man hit on me and hit on me he would get punched in the face.
If you find out that a women likes you it changes everything as that is the norm and it will continue to stay that way.
This is why sexual preference is for the most part kept private despite what you may say.
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On May 03 2013 02:23 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 02:17 farvacola wrote:On May 03 2013 02:12 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On May 01 2013 11:29 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 10:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that privilege yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective. I'm sorry but being where I come from if you're white you are NOT privileged. Good luck getting welfare being white. I'm not racist or prejudice and am properly more open minded than anyone in this thread but the honest truth is that people that base anything around a persons personal belief or the color of their skin is very close minded AND sexual orientation should be kept private I don't hear people running around talking about how they like dick or pussy. I actually hear about it all the time. Maybe no one says "I like dick/pussy/both. I mean I REALLY like dick/pussy/both. Did I ever tell you how much I like dick/pussy/both?" but people certainly do (and certainly should be able to) say "Wow - check out the hottie at the bar." Step out of the equation and think about it for a second. That's fine if you come from an area where white people were historically oppressed (where is this again?) but obfuscating the point isn't a defense of your argument. Historically - homosexuality has been maligned the world over - but no one has ever significantly oppressed heterosexuality. As a heterosexual individual you have NEVER been afraid for your personal physical or emotional well-being due to your sexuality. It's not the same with any other orientation. Saying "We should just ignore it because it doesn't matter" is not an option for those people - because, unfortunately for them, it DOES matter, not only because there are still assholes in the world who claim homosexuals are the antichrist or whatever, but also because they should be able to go to the bar and say "DAMN, look at that sexy manmuffin" without anyone saying "Ew, nobody asked about that keep it to yourself." Anyways heres a relevant quote from Stephen Fry "“At least 260 species of animal have been noted exhibiting homosexual behaviour but only one species of animal ever, so far as we know, has exhibited homophobic behaviour — and that’s the human being. So ask which is really natural.” Whites were slaves during the times the egpytians were around and also during other time periods. The Jew's had it really, really bad as well as everyone knows. If someone says that they like dick or pussy who cares? It's all private talk I've yet to have a complete stranger walk up to me and tell me they like ass/tits/dick/ or anything as it's all private. Also, most men would take offense to a gay man calling them hot and men have killed themselves over the fact that a man had a crush on them and told a bunch of people/ It would be like if a women went to a bar and she found out that another women was checking her out....the bottom line is that it's straight up offensive and sexual preference should be kept to yourself. I know that for me if a guy liked me I would be offended. If I was on the same basketball team as this player I would be offended as well when playing if I see him checking me out or anything whereas if he just kept his mouth shut it wouldn't bother me. Just because you think such topics ought to be relegated to the private sphere does not mean that society acts in such a way; it is a simple fact that male expressions of sexual attraction towards women are the only explicitly tolerated public displays of this kind, and this is inherently discriminatory. It does not manner if a guy found out another guy liked him most men would punch that man in the face. It's offensive/disgusting and plain right embarrassing if you're straight and find out that another man likes you. If you find out that a women likes you it changes everything as that is the norm and it will continue to stay that way. This is why sexual preference is for the most part kept private despite what you may say. You keep saying it is kept private, but it isn't, sorry. Even if I am to rely purely on anecdotal experience, I've witnessed exponentially more public displays of male attraction towards women than any other dynamic. Furthermore, your repeated insistence that male attraction towards men is inherently disgusting in the eyes of a heterosexual male is actually plain old homophobia. Women deal with unwanted sexual attention all the time, and the knee jerkish reaction on the part of a man in the face of another who displays attraction is nothing more than intolerance and a refusal to believe that gay men are actual people with feelings and desires. I've been told I'm an attractive man, and I've had gay men hit on me more than a few times, as I once worked as a bouncer at a gay bar. Guess what? I said, "Thanks for the compliment, but I'm not interested." You and other men can do the same, given that they aren't homophobic pricks.
Edit: Ahh yes, the "all gays talk the same" card. You are a homophobe, plain and simple.
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On May 01 2013 16:20 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 10:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that priviledge yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective. I'm sorry but being where I come from if you're white you are NOT privileged. Good luck getting welfare being white. I'm not racist or prejudice and am properly more open minded than anyone in this thread but the honest truth is that people that base anything around a persons personal belief or the color of their skin is very close minded AND sexual orientation should be kept private I don't hear people running around talking about how they like dick or pussy. It's great that you feel that way but most of society doesn't seem to have gotten the memo. If you can succeed in completely divorcing sexuality from human social interactions then we can all just be people and not need labels until we're in the bedroom. But unfortunately for now society is still modelled on the assumption that you are straight, not talking about sexuality is simply aligning yourself with that current rather than dismissing it.
You're right I don't like labeling or labels but you are wrong on the point that everyone automatically assumes that you're straight. I can point out a person that is gay right away by the way they talk (their voice is a dead give away). I understand that some gays are more masculine but their are groups to meet other gays online and "hook up".
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On May 03 2013 02:12 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 11:29 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 10:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that privilege yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective. I'm sorry but being where I come from if you're white you are NOT privileged. Good luck getting welfare being white. I'm not racist or prejudice and am properly more open minded than anyone in this thread but the honest truth is that people that base anything around a persons personal belief or the color of their skin is very close minded AND sexual orientation should be kept private I don't hear people running around talking about how they like dick or pussy. I actually hear about it all the time. Maybe no one says "I like dick/pussy/both. I mean I REALLY like dick/pussy/both. Did I ever tell you how much I like dick/pussy/both?" but people certainly do (and certainly should be able to) say "Wow - check out the hottie at the bar." Step out of the equation and think about it for a second. That's fine if you come from an area where white people were historically oppressed (where is this again?) but obfuscating the point isn't a defense of your argument. Historically - homosexuality has been maligned the world over - but no one has ever significantly oppressed heterosexuality. As a heterosexual individual you have NEVER been afraid for your personal physical or emotional well-being due to your sexuality. It's not the same with any other orientation. Saying "We should just ignore it because it doesn't matter" is not an option for those people - because, unfortunately for them, it DOES matter, not only because there are still assholes in the world who claim homosexuals are the antichrist or whatever, but also because they should be able to go to the bar and say "DAMN, look at that sexy manmuffin" without anyone saying "Ew, nobody asked about that keep it to yourself." Anyways heres a relevant quote from Stephen Fry "“At least 260 species of animal have been noted exhibiting homosexual behaviour but only one species of animal ever, so far as we know, has exhibited homophobic behaviour — and that’s the human being. So ask which is really natural.” Whites were slaves during the times the egpytians were around and also during other time periods. The Jew's had it really, really bad as well as everyone knows. Whites have it just as hard as black people it's just that there tends to be more black/hispanic people in low income areas and their children end up not being brought up properly and end up relying on welfare for their income. I actually know a black guy that gets welfare & section 8 and gets paid to live for free, does not have to work, plays games all day and has a child. I have also witnessed white people filling out job applications checking off that they are hispanic when they told me that they're white and just lying about being hispanic so that they can get the job which actually works as some company's such as McD are paid to hire blacks/hispanics so that they get off welfare AND a lot of these places are ran by people that are prejudice. So go try living in the ghetto and tell me that the white are not oppressed in certain places. I'm far from racist/prejudice but anyone claiming that blacks have it "hard" grew up with rich or well off parents as it's a load of bull. If someone says that they like dick or pussy who cares? It's all private talk I've yet to have a complete stranger walk up to me and tell me they like ass/tits/dick/ or anything as it's all private. Also, most men would take offense to a gay man calling them hot and men have killed themselves over the fact that a man had a crush on them and told a bunch of people/ It would be like if a women went to a bar and she found out that another women was checking her out....the bottom line is that it's straight up offensive and sexual preference should be kept to yourself. I know that for me if a guy liked me I would be offended. If I was on the same basketball team as this player I would be offended as well when playing if I see him checking me out or anything whereas if he just kept his mouth shut it wouldn't bother me. As for your last quote it's irrelevant to what I was/am saying and there are mistakes in evolutioon that could make something "gay" just like how some women hae facial hair or a mans body parts or are born with 2 heads. I also don't believe in the notion of "natural" as everything can be labeled as natural as everything came/comes from the universe. I also don't believe in the notion of death, there's only a changing of conditions.
Why should i be offended if a guy finds me attractive and tells me so? Shouldn't i rather be flattered? It has not happened to me yet, but that is how i assume i would react. After all, it would mean that i am attractive to that guy, which sounds like an ego boost to me.
So, you are completely fine with man telling women that they like them, but it is somehow incredibly offensive if a guy tells another guy he likes him? It is not like he forces you to do anything or hits you with a gay ray. The most basic scenario is him giving you the information that he wants to fuck you, and you saying no. Nothing is lost to anyone, you know that you are hot. I fail to see how this is a bad scenario for anyone.
Regarding evolution: There are no "mistakes" in evolution. A mistake would mean that there is a plan, from which you derive and make a mistake. There are things that work and those that don't. Those that work stay, those that don't become extinct. That is the whole concept of evolution. 2 head are not something that evolves, because it is a major competetive disadvantage, and thus goes away over a few generations if it mutates into the genepool. There is no goal in evolution except survival/procreation, and thus there can not be a mistake. Apparently some individuums in a society being gay is not a competetive disadvantage for a lot of species.
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On May 03 2013 02:32 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 02:12 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On May 01 2013 11:29 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 10:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that privilege yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective. I'm sorry but being where I come from if you're white you are NOT privileged. Good luck getting welfare being white. I'm not racist or prejudice and am properly more open minded than anyone in this thread but the honest truth is that people that base anything around a persons personal belief or the color of their skin is very close minded AND sexual orientation should be kept private I don't hear people running around talking about how they like dick or pussy. I actually hear about it all the time. Maybe no one says "I like dick/pussy/both. I mean I REALLY like dick/pussy/both. Did I ever tell you how much I like dick/pussy/both?" but people certainly do (and certainly should be able to) say "Wow - check out the hottie at the bar." Step out of the equation and think about it for a second. That's fine if you come from an area where white people were historically oppressed (where is this again?) but obfuscating the point isn't a defense of your argument. Historically - homosexuality has been maligned the world over - but no one has ever significantly oppressed heterosexuality. As a heterosexual individual you have NEVER been afraid for your personal physical or emotional well-being due to your sexuality. It's not the same with any other orientation. Saying "We should just ignore it because it doesn't matter" is not an option for those people - because, unfortunately for them, it DOES matter, not only because there are still assholes in the world who claim homosexuals are the antichrist or whatever, but also because they should be able to go to the bar and say "DAMN, look at that sexy manmuffin" without anyone saying "Ew, nobody asked about that keep it to yourself." Anyways heres a relevant quote from Stephen Fry "“At least 260 species of animal have been noted exhibiting homosexual behaviour but only one species of animal ever, so far as we know, has exhibited homophobic behaviour — and that’s the human being. So ask which is really natural.” Whites were slaves during the times the egpytians were around and also during other time periods. The Jew's had it really, really bad as well as everyone knows. Whites have it just as hard as black people it's just that there tends to be more black/hispanic people in low income areas and their children end up not being brought up properly and end up relying on welfare for their income. I actually know a black guy that gets welfare & section 8 and gets paid to live for free, does not have to work, plays games all day and has a child. I have also witnessed white people filling out job applications checking off that they are hispanic when they told me that they're white and just lying about being hispanic so that they can get the job which actually works as some company's such as McD are paid to hire blacks/hispanics so that they get off welfare AND a lot of these places are ran by people that are prejudice. So go try living in the ghetto and tell me that the white are not oppressed in certain places. I'm far from racist/prejudice but anyone claiming that blacks have it "hard" grew up with rich or well off parents as it's a load of bull. If someone says that they like dick or pussy who cares? It's all private talk I've yet to have a complete stranger walk up to me and tell me they like ass/tits/dick/ or anything as it's all private. Also, most men would take offense to a gay man calling them hot and men have killed themselves over the fact that a man had a crush on them and told a bunch of people/ It would be like if a women went to a bar and she found out that another women was checking her out....the bottom line is that it's straight up offensive and sexual preference should be kept to yourself. I know that for me if a guy liked me I would be offended. If I was on the same basketball team as this player I would be offended as well when playing if I see him checking me out or anything whereas if he just kept his mouth shut it wouldn't bother me. As for your last quote it's irrelevant to what I was/am saying and there are mistakes in evolutioon that could make something "gay" just like how some women hae facial hair or a mans body parts or are born with 2 heads. I also don't believe in the notion of "natural" as everything can be labeled as natural as everything came/comes from the universe. I also don't believe in the notion of death, there's only a changing of conditions. Why should i be offended if a guy finds me attractive and tells me so? Shouldn't i rather be flattered? It has not happened to me yet, but that is how i assume i would react. After all, it would mean that i am attractive to that guy, which sounds like an ego boost to me. So, you are completely fine with man telling women that they like them, but it is somehow incredibly offensive if a guy tells another guy he likes him? It is not like he forces you to do anything or hits you with a gay ray. The most basic scenario is him giving you the information that he wants to fuck you, and you saying no. Nothing is lost to anyone, you know that you are hot. I fail to see how this is a bad scenario for anyone. Regarding evolution: There are no "mistakes" in evolution. A mistake would mean that there is a plan, from which you derive and make a mistake. There are things that work and those that don't. Those that work stay, those that don't become extinct. That is the whole concept of evolution. 2 head are not something that evolves, because it is a major competetive disadvantage, and thus goes away over a few generations if it mutates into the genepool. There is no goal in evolution except survival/procreation, and thus there can not be a mistake. Apparently some individuums in a society being gay is not a competetive disadvantage for a lot of species.
It IS offensive for someone that you do not like to openly hit on you. If a very unattractive heavyset women hit on me I would be offended as well but for a straight man to be hit on by a gay man is one of the worst offenses possible.
Also, I believe that the universe does have a plan and I'm a pantheist which means that I believe that nature is God. I believe in the universe & nature and believe that nature is intelligent or else I would not be here.....I follow the Buddhist philosophy which also in a way is pantheist.
So yes, I do think that nature can make mistakes according to the conditioning of a human being and what they view as a mistake. It may not be a mistake for mother nature but in the human condition me & you would view being gay or beibng born with two heads a mistake and that's a fact that we live with.
So yes, nature does make mistakes if you view it from the viewpoint of being a human in the human condition.
We also agree that there's something called death that might seem unfair when in reality all that it is is a changing of conditions that is also "natural"......
Also you're contradicting yourself in your last paragraph when you talk about survival of the fittest. Being gay will not survive through "survival of the fittest" as they can not reproduce meaning that the gene will eventually die out and gays will not exist unless an "error" happens in someones DNA which still does happen or else there would be no gay people.
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On May 03 2013 03:09 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2013 02:32 Simberto wrote:On May 03 2013 02:12 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On May 01 2013 11:29 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 10:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On May 01 2013 09:27 Arghmyliver wrote:On May 01 2013 08:55 SjPhotoGrapher wrote: Who cares about what his sexual orientation is or anyone's for that manner.....you don't hear other sports players saying "O'm straight".......this is more of a publicity stunt as now more people will know hos name.
Nonetheless I could care less whether hes gay or not or anyone for that manner keep it to yourself its personal. By the same token then - why should he keep it to himself if it doesn't matter? I talk about how much I love boobs with my guy friends sometimes. If he wants to talk about how much he loves rock hard man abs or something he should be able to. The fact that he's just coming out in his thirties reveals more about our culture than about him personally - in my opinion at least. I don't think gay people sit around waiting for the most lucrative opportunity to reveal themselves to the public. He's probably known he was gay for a long time - but was afraid of the negative social stigma. Like someone else has said in this thread (KwarK?) being straight makes you privileged in this society in the same way that being white does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege) - even if you don't actually recognize that privilege yourself. You are not at fault, per se, but there are certain things you take for granted as a privileged individual. Everyone assumes you are straight - so you don't feel that it's necessary to clarify sexual orientation - but if everyone assumed you were gay - wouldn't you feel the need to clarify that point? Look at it this way. If you are white in the US - you generally don't have to worry about people being racist towards you. You don't have to worry about explaining to your children "yeah, that guy's an ignorant racist, don't listen to him." However, if you are an ethnic minority - you might have to explain to your children why some idiots at school call them names or treat them differently. It's all a matter of perspective. I'm sorry but being where I come from if you're white you are NOT privileged. Good luck getting welfare being white. I'm not racist or prejudice and am properly more open minded than anyone in this thread but the honest truth is that people that base anything around a persons personal belief or the color of their skin is very close minded AND sexual orientation should be kept private I don't hear people running around talking about how they like dick or pussy. I actually hear about it all the time. Maybe no one says "I like dick/pussy/both. I mean I REALLY like dick/pussy/both. Did I ever tell you how much I like dick/pussy/both?" but people certainly do (and certainly should be able to) say "Wow - check out the hottie at the bar." Step out of the equation and think about it for a second. That's fine if you come from an area where white people were historically oppressed (where is this again?) but obfuscating the point isn't a defense of your argument. Historically - homosexuality has been maligned the world over - but no one has ever significantly oppressed heterosexuality. As a heterosexual individual you have NEVER been afraid for your personal physical or emotional well-being due to your sexuality. It's not the same with any other orientation. Saying "We should just ignore it because it doesn't matter" is not an option for those people - because, unfortunately for them, it DOES matter, not only because there are still assholes in the world who claim homosexuals are the antichrist or whatever, but also because they should be able to go to the bar and say "DAMN, look at that sexy manmuffin" without anyone saying "Ew, nobody asked about that keep it to yourself." Anyways heres a relevant quote from Stephen Fry "“At least 260 species of animal have been noted exhibiting homosexual behaviour but only one species of animal ever, so far as we know, has exhibited homophobic behaviour — and that’s the human being. So ask which is really natural.” Whites were slaves during the times the egpytians were around and also during other time periods. The Jew's had it really, really bad as well as everyone knows. Whites have it just as hard as black people it's just that there tends to be more black/hispanic people in low income areas and their children end up not being brought up properly and end up relying on welfare for their income. I actually know a black guy that gets welfare & section 8 and gets paid to live for free, does not have to work, plays games all day and has a child. I have also witnessed white people filling out job applications checking off that they are hispanic when they told me that they're white and just lying about being hispanic so that they can get the job which actually works as some company's such as McD are paid to hire blacks/hispanics so that they get off welfare AND a lot of these places are ran by people that are prejudice. So go try living in the ghetto and tell me that the white are not oppressed in certain places. I'm far from racist/prejudice but anyone claiming that blacks have it "hard" grew up with rich or well off parents as it's a load of bull. If someone says that they like dick or pussy who cares? It's all private talk I've yet to have a complete stranger walk up to me and tell me they like ass/tits/dick/ or anything as it's all private. Also, most men would take offense to a gay man calling them hot and men have killed themselves over the fact that a man had a crush on them and told a bunch of people/ It would be like if a women went to a bar and she found out that another women was checking her out....the bottom line is that it's straight up offensive and sexual preference should be kept to yourself. I know that for me if a guy liked me I would be offended. If I was on the same basketball team as this player I would be offended as well when playing if I see him checking me out or anything whereas if he just kept his mouth shut it wouldn't bother me. As for your last quote it's irrelevant to what I was/am saying and there are mistakes in evolutioon that could make something "gay" just like how some women hae facial hair or a mans body parts or are born with 2 heads. I also don't believe in the notion of "natural" as everything can be labeled as natural as everything came/comes from the universe. I also don't believe in the notion of death, there's only a changing of conditions. Why should i be offended if a guy finds me attractive and tells me so? Shouldn't i rather be flattered? It has not happened to me yet, but that is how i assume i would react. After all, it would mean that i am attractive to that guy, which sounds like an ego boost to me. So, you are completely fine with man telling women that they like them, but it is somehow incredibly offensive if a guy tells another guy he likes him? It is not like he forces you to do anything or hits you with a gay ray. The most basic scenario is him giving you the information that he wants to fuck you, and you saying no. Nothing is lost to anyone, you know that you are hot. I fail to see how this is a bad scenario for anyone. Regarding evolution: There are no "mistakes" in evolution. A mistake would mean that there is a plan, from which you derive and make a mistake. There are things that work and those that don't. Those that work stay, those that don't become extinct. That is the whole concept of evolution. 2 head are not something that evolves, because it is a major competetive disadvantage, and thus goes away over a few generations if it mutates into the genepool. There is no goal in evolution except survival/procreation, and thus there can not be a mistake. Apparently some individuums in a society being gay is not a competetive disadvantage for a lot of species. It IS offensive for someone that you do not like to openly hit on you. If a very unattractive heavyset women hit on me I would be offended as well but for a straight man to be hit on by a gay man is one of the worst offenses possible. No. It is NOT offensive. Well, it guess i depends on the way it happens, but if someone tells you in a nice way that they like it, it is not offensive. The situation can become awkward depending on what you think about them, but how can it be offensive if someone finds you attractive and informs you of that in a non-threatening manner?
Also, I believe that the universe does have a plan and I'm a pantheist which means that I believe that nature is God. I believe in the universe & nature and believe that nature is intelligent or else I would not be here.....I follow the Buddhist philosophy which also in a way is pantheist.
So yes, I do think that nature can make mistakes according to the conditioning of a human being and what they view as a mistake. It may not be a mistake for mother nature but in the human condition me & you would view being gay or beibng born with two heads a mistake and that's a fact that we live with.
See, you should have told that from the start. Evolution is a scientific term, not a religious one. You can believe whatever you want if you like to, just don't act like it is anything but a unsubstantiated belief instead of real science. There is no way i can argue against a belief, since it is not based in rationality.
So yes, nature does make mistakes if you view it from the viewpoint of being a human in the human condition.
We also agree that there's something called death that might seem unfair when in reality all that it is is a changing of conditions that is also "natural"......
You keep on mentioning this death thing, probably because you think you have gotten some genius insight and are just dying to explain that to someone else, but sadly noone is asking you about it because noone cares.
Also you're contradicting yourself in your last paragraph when you talk about survival of the fittest. Being gay will not survive through "survival of the fittest" as they can not reproduce meaning that the gene will eventually die out and gays will not exist unless an "error" happens in someones DNA which still does happen or else there would be no gay people.
No, i am not. I said that apparently it is not detrimental to the survival of a population if a part of it is gay. That is easily proven by the fact that a part of the population of multiple species is gay. A reasonable explanation of this is the so-called "gay uncle" hypothesis. Of course the individual gay will not reproduce, but if he allows his kin to reproduce more effectively by caring for their offspring etc... then those genes can still be part of a survival of the fittest through their kin.
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I am a straight man and I would not be offended by a guy hitting on me. In fact, right now I would love to plant a big kiss on SjPhotoGrapher's lips just to piss him off :p
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