On July 22 2014 08:22 OuchyDathurts wrote: The thing is if the shoe was on the other foot law enforcement would go out of their way to deal with it. They will try to throw all manner of charges from accessory, obstruction, conspiracy, etc to get people to talk but when it's one of their own mum is the word. People say "most cops are good" but you can't be a good cop and cover up for your coworker who has broken the law, you can't hide behind the shield and be a good human being let alone a respectable police officer. If you're a good person who is sworn to protect and serve their community and citizens you MUST be willing to stick your neck out to make sure there aren't monsters within your ranks. If you don't do so you're just helping to propagate the fear and hatred some have of the police and showing those people that their fears and hatred are deserved.
The police shouldn't be the mafia where rats get whacked, that only goes to prove the system is cancerous and is legitimately flawed to its core. It's only going to get worse unless something fundamentally changes and it's only going to breed more mistrust.
The sad part of all this is that even if there were honest people in the police force willing to protect the innocent and stop their fellow officers from doing harm, they would be up against the majority, and would probably be quickly silenced and/or fired. I mean look what happens to officers that are caught on public cameras, facing the ire of the entire general public after their crime is shown on live television. Even with all of that attention, they get reassigned or demoted...that's about it. If that's what happens when there is maximum publicity and attention, I think you can't expect a whole lot when one (or a few) police officers speak out.
Combine that with the fact that these people would be risking getting fired, its probably really hard to raise the will to fight. We live in a capitalistic system, people need money to support themselves and their families. Why risk all of that, for such a small chance of change?
Finally the other sad part is that, this video will be temporarily enraging, but it will also be forgotten about a week from now by most people. There is almost zero will in the general public to enact any change, except in the form of minor protests; the only exception was Occupy Wall Street, but that took a major financial crisis, and even then they had no clear direction or desire. It seems like society is so powerless to accomplish anything, people generally are not interested enough and have their own affairs to consider, nor would they know what action to take except to trust the people in power who obviously seem to have no problems with how things are. I don't know, I guess you have to hope that people will eventually have enough of it all
On July 22 2014 08:22 OuchyDathurts wrote: The thing is if the shoe was on the other foot law enforcement would go out of their way to deal with it. They will try to throw all manner of charges from accessory, obstruction, conspiracy, etc to get people to talk but when it's one of their own mum is the word. People say "most cops are good" but you can't be a good cop and cover up for your coworker who has broken the law, you can't hide behind the shield and be a good human being let alone a respectable police officer. If you're a good person who is sworn to protect and serve their community and citizens you MUST be willing to stick your neck out to make sure there aren't monsters within your ranks. If you don't do so you're just helping to propagate the fear and hatred some have of the police and showing those people that their fears and hatred are deserved.
The police shouldn't be the mafia where rats get whacked, that only goes to prove the system is cancerous and is legitimately flawed to its core. It's only going to get worse unless something fundamentally changes and it's only going to breed more mistrust.
The sad part of all this is that even if there were honest people in the police force willing to protect the innocent and stop their fellow officers from doing harm, they would be up against the majority, and would probably be quickly silenced and/or fired. I mean look what happens to officers that are caught on public cameras, facing the ire of the entire general public after their crime is shown on live television. Even with all of that attention, they get reassigned or demoted...that's about it. If that's what happens when there is maximum publicity and attention, I think you can't expect a whole lot when one (or a few) police officers speak out.
Combine that with the fact that these people would be risking being fired, its probably really hard to do raise the will to fight. We live in a capitalistic system, people need money to support themselves and their families. Why risk all of that, for such a small chance of change?
Finally the other sad part is that, this video will be temporarily enraging, but it will also be forgotten about a week from now by most people. There is almost zero will in the general public to enact any change, except in the form of minor protests; the only exception one was Occupy Wall Street, but that took a major financial crisis, and even then they had no clear direction or desire. It seems like society is so powerless to accomplish anything, people generally are not interested enough and have their own affairs to consider, nor would they know what action to take except to trust the people in power who obviously seem to have no problems with how things are. I don't know, I guess you have to hope that people will eventually have enough of it all
We have to keep in mind they caught this on camera... This is a daily occurrence (minus the death). The only reason this is getting attention is because it was caught on camera (the camera wasn't illegally confiscated and destroyed on threat they would do the same to the cameraman) and the victim died.
Otherwise this would just be another typical allegation from another typical criminal.
The cops need to have cameras on them and a group of professional citizens representative of the community being policed needs to be the one assessing the videos and determining whether they want to press charges. These internal investigations are shams and almost always end in no real punishment unless the victim can win a federal case.
I don't see why these people don't get fired at the very least. Regardless of malice these kind of incidents show gross incompetence, in such a position it's inexcusable to me to have so little censure occurring in such incidents. Not sure why, I understand that it's a demanding and stressful job and people make allowances for their own but come on.
On July 22 2014 09:51 Nore wrote: His intent wasnt to kill. If it was then i am in the wrong but i highly doubt it.
Wow. Obviously his intent wasn't to kill, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to gather that. How does that change anything?
What are you trying to say?
Pretty sure not everyone knows or always remembers all the police banned rules.
This is as dumb. Cops are supposed to have training, schooling and qualifications. Wanna bet they knew? In fact, it's written in their patrol guide (just read it so i can be smartassy about it).
Not to worry though, police is already trying to bullshit their way out.
The NYPD said Garner "took a fighting stance" and "absolutely resisted arrest."
Yeah, right. They know there's that video, that shows the big guy lifting his hands in a helpless gesture while begging "please, please don't touch me", until he get's cut off by an arm around his throat?
Fighting stance my ass. If that's a fighting stance, mother theresa was a kickboxer.
Even if he was a repeated offender, they needed to lay their hands on him for cigarettes? Whats wrong with writing him a ticket/summons and move on? If he fails to show to court then start the paperwork to arrest him, then they can use force. Did they even say to him he was being placed under arrest before jumping on him?
The big question is, will this become the case that Sharpton and a lot of people wanted the Trayvonn Martin case to be. Now there is no evidence or reason why this should have happened as opposed to the rock solid defense against the sparse Trayvonn Martin prosecution. I wonder what political moves this will be used for.
You can watch as about a dozen officers and EMT's stand around and watch him die in this video... The whole thing is just disgusting. The guy who started the whole thing by choking him was even brazen enough to wave at the camera. If that asshole doesn't go to prison I can't imagine what will happen.
Imagine being a small child watching that happen. You just watched the police murder a man who by all appearances wasn't doing anything that warranted any physical action and then you find out the murderers who just watched him die without even attempting to save him (but making sure no one else could get close enough to) will probably go free. How safe would you feel walking down that street? Oh by the way the people who just murdered your neighbor are the ones who are in charge of 'protecting you'.....
No first aid for a person who is not breathing?! They just watch him die and hope he will start breath by himself? Too bad judge won't take a case with a group murder of his fellow colleagues. All of them were trained to provide first aid and it would likely save a life but no one moved a muscle to help him - watching like it's an animal or something and not going to touch him without fuckin gloves. I have seen a taxi driver hitting a homeless in the city and after no one really cared to touch him but a couple Denmark military soldiers were passing by and they instantly started to give the man first aid, getting his blood on their hands and faces and thanks to them the homeless man started breathing again and got taken away to hospital. If you know how to provide first aid - you are obligated to do it and I can understand people who don't know because they can harm more than do good.
If you know how to provide first aid - you are obligated to do it and I can understand people who don't know because they can harm more than do good.
In germany you're required to give first aid by law, goes for every person. Although, first aid can also mean calling the police/ambulance (not everybody is trained in first aid). Even if you made it worse in the end (wrong help, as in putting somebody on his back, knees up, while he's choking on his tongue/vomit). In this case, cops do have first aid training, and for not helping him alone they can be hold accountable on criminal charges and civil lawsuits. In germany at least, don't know the rules in the US regarding that.
Think it's standard to call ambulance before even starting to give first aid. They probably did call ambulance but sadly didn't do their job with first aiding.
On July 21 2014 12:54 Livelovedie wrote: Doesn't the police force in theory have to attract this type of person? This is definitely terrible, but is it even possible to have a person who shows restraint be a cop?
I'd assume some of the 800,000ish police who don't make headlines are able to show restraint.
They need to do more than that. They should get rid of their "colleagues" who are prone to use excess force before something like this happens. I doubt this was the first time these thugs used excessive force but they either weren't reported or the reports weren't handled properly.
It's not a few bad apples, it's an institutional problem.
Here is the one area where introducing cameras onto police officers -- maybe put them in their badges or make them wear those goofy google glasses -- would be a tremendous benefit. IIRC, there was a study that shows instances of both police brutality reports and police brutality outcomes drop significantly when the cop and the person he is interacting with both know there is a police tape of their interaction.
Police officers where i'm from,(Albuquerque, NM) already have lapel cameras to video tape there interactions with civilians. What happens most of the time anything violent happens (i.e. police killing a civilian) they just lose the video tape, or turn off there lapel camera before preforming the illegal actions.
On July 22 2014 17:02 -Archangel- wrote: In my country there is a saying: Cops are criminals at heart whose life took a slightly different path.
From what I've heard it's the same here; or rather, it's been documented that there are neighborhoods where most people there become either cops or crooks; and a lot of the cops tend to come from those neighborhoods as well. So I hear at least, I haven't looked closely at sources.
The state of the American police is very worrying, seems police abuse is caught on camera every day, makes you wonder about he number of incididents that aren't. Cops that straight up murder people are left unprosecuted or given a ridiculous administrative punishment. I geuss this is what happens when politicians always feel the need to be tougher on crime than the last guy that was in office. Many Americans don't even seem to care very much, culture of worshiping power and authority and despising the poor and unsuccesful I geuss. Also why are American police allowed to be so fucking fat?
On July 22 2014 07:08 Ghostcom wrote: It might depend on country, but I have found that lawyers and doctors seem to be pretty good at it.
EDIT: It actually really doesn't matter if any professions in which it is acceptable exists though - shouldn't we as a society demand such acceptance from all professions? And doesn't a lack of such acceptance describe a rotten environment?
There's plenty of examples of medical professionals making errors and getting no punishment for it as well as more systematic flaws of not believing people/mistreating them for long periods of time.
I don't really know how you can compare misdiagnosing a patient and choking someone until they die. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that even if a physician doesn't correctly identify an ailment, that the prescribed cure isn't going to be a choke-hold.